1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days, another 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: twist in a case out of Anaheim that has baffle 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: legal legals and court watchers all across the country. Where 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: does the whole story start? It starts with a beautiful 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: young mom, Gizelle Preston Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Zazelle 6 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: Zizi Preston is a beloved mother of three, two daughters, 7 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: a three year old and an eight year old. She 8 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: also has a seven week old son with her new husband, 9 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: William Wallace. The twenty six year old dreams of becoming 10 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: a domestic violence counselor and returns to school to make 11 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: it happen, taking classes at Cypress College, joining me and 12 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: All Star panel to break it down and put it 13 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: back together again. You were just hearing our friends at 14 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com talking about this gorgeous young mom 15 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: of three, a brand new seven week old son with 16 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: her new husband, planning to go back actually taking classes 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: at Cypress College. That's hard to do, raise three children 18 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: and go to school full time, Very difficult, very stressful. 19 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: At home with me Alexis Torezchuk, Crime online dot Com 20 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, also with Lead Stories dot Com, Dan Scott, 21 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,279 Speaker 1: former La County Sheriff sergeant twenty six years, Special Victims 22 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Bureau specializing in family matters. Doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, 23 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and 24 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: form a police Detective to Boot. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned 25 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta and a jurisdiction. 26 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: Melissa Hottmeyer, Prince George County, chief of the Special Victims Unit. 27 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: She's joining us today. Also co founder of Right Response Consulting, 28 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: and a very special guest joining us. Laurie Galloway, very 29 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: very dear friend of Zelle Preston, founder and executive director 30 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: of the Eli Shelter Homes for Abe's Children, the former 31 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: Mayor pro tim of Anaheim, and you can find her 32 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Laurie Galloway, also on Twitter. Laurie, thank 33 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: you for being with us today. You're very welcome. Thank 34 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: you so much for inviting me, Laurie, could you just 35 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: tell me about your friend, did you know? Just thinking 36 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: about her and just bringing back the memory. She was 37 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: such a special, special person, and the thing that was 38 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: most special about her was her heart. She was a 39 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: truly compassionate loving, for giving, a faith person, and anyone 40 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: who would meet her and know her just loved her. 41 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: She was that kind of a person. I understand she 42 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: was just over the moon about the new baby, the 43 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: seven week old baby boy. Yes she was. She was 44 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: very much, very much in love with him. He was 45 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: just heaven on Earth to her. Guys, in the last days, 46 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: this case has taken another, yet another twist. Right now, 47 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about Zazelle Preston, twenty six years old, two 48 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: daughters just three and eight, and a seven week old 49 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: son with her brand new husband. You heard that she's 50 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: going back to school at Cyprus. Cause there's so much 51 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: about her that we don't know. We don't know about 52 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: her upbringing, we don't know about what turned her into 53 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: the wonderful mother that she became. But I do know this. 54 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online. Wallace 55 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: called nine one one at approximately nine thirty am to 56 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: report that his wife needed medical attention, but that was 57 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: after calling Preston's family to complain that she wouldn't wake up. 58 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: Zazelle Preston was on responsive when Anaheim Police Department officers arrived. 59 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: Preston was slumped over on the couch when paramedics arrived. Okay, 60 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: nine one one, nine thirty in the morning, reporting his 61 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: wife needed help. He calls nine one one. When nine 62 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: one one gets there, the wife is slumped over on 63 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: the family sofa. Now right there, I find that unusual 64 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: to Laurie Gallowa, excuse me. To Melissa Hotmeyer, the Prince 65 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: George County chief of the Special Victims Unit, very two, 66 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: I remember as a little girl, Melissa, hearing my mother 67 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: screaming in the back bedroom. And I never saw my 68 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: parents out of a scream fest ever, And she was 69 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: yelling mac mac mac. And then I heard what sounded 70 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: like a slap, and I jumped up in my pj's 71 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: and ran back there. She was performing CPR on my dad. 72 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: My dad had was a heart patient his whole while, 73 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: starting in his early late thirties, and my mother saved 74 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: his life on that occasion. So I would expect when 75 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: nine one arrives to see Zell Preston lying down on 76 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: a hard surface, because we all know you can't do 77 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: CPR on a soft surface like sofa where Dad or 78 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: somebody would be performing CPR. But that is not what 79 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: nine one one found when they got there. Yeah, absolutely 80 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, and you know that is where the 81 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: investigation will definitely have to start. I'm looking into that, 82 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: and you know, to you Alexis Terresch Crime online dot 83 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: com investigative reporter as well with Lee Stories dot Com, Alexis, 84 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. But you know, I 85 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: hate to attack an upset spouse or family members. But 86 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean, what, let me just be blunt, what idiot? 87 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: What try to do CPR? Alexis. Not only did he 88 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: not try to do CPR? He so he called nine 89 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: one one. He told them she's on responsive. They explaining, 90 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: you know that the operators are trained to teach you 91 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: how to do CPR so you can help somebody. They'll 92 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: stay on the phone with you while you do it. 93 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: They were telling him, Okay, here's how you do it. 94 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: You have to move around the book. He hung up 95 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: on the operator. Okay, now right there, right there. That's 96 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: why I love nim on one calls so much, as 97 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: far as I don't enjoy just listening to nine o 98 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: one calls, Alexis, I love Nie on one calls because 99 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: they tell me so much about the moment of the incident. 100 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: In this case, tell me that again, Alexis terres chuck. 101 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: Not only when nine one got there. He's not even 102 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: trying to do CPR, not even trying. She's still slumped 103 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: over as if she's sitting on she is. She's sitting 104 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: on the sofa, slumped over. And Guys, I know I'm 105 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: beating this fact, but it means a lot to me 106 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to investigating a case, every detail matters. 107 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: Are you telling me because I didn't hear the nine 108 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: one call that they asked him to stay on the 109 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: line to regarding CPR instructions and he hung up on them. 110 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: Yes he was. They were telling him, well, she's not 111 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: asking him if she's breathing, here's how you can give 112 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: her CBR and he just hung up on them. And 113 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: then when the paramedics arrived in the police there was 114 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: no sign around her. There wasn't any blood or anything 115 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: like that. So they immediately just thought, oh, this this woman, 116 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, just needs to be revived and went right 117 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: to help her out. You know Dan Scott, former La 118 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's sergeant, twenty six year special Victims. You think 119 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: he could tell a story to Dan Scott right there 120 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: that bothers me. And you know, very often we're told, 121 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: you know, you can't prove a case on a gut feeling, 122 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: and that's definitely true. But when I go into a 123 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: scene and I see the mom in distress and she's 124 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: still just sitting on the sofa with her head down, 125 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: Dan Scott, have you ever noticed a defendant has bizarre behavior, 126 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: Let's just say, at a hospital or a funeral. They 127 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: don't act upset at all, and you'll hear defense argue 128 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: till they're blue in the face. Well, there's no playbook 129 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: for grief, be asked, Dan Scott, I know what I 130 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: would do if my husband slumped over on the sofa, 131 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: and I pray to God that doesn't happen. That's exactly true. Well, 132 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: there is no playbook for grief. But most people react 133 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: the way we would expect them to react. If not, 134 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: there's a reason for it, and the cops that were 135 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: there would have first of all been alerted by the 136 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: nine one an operator that he hung up, and then 137 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: they would have observed this behavior that just does not 138 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: fit crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about 139 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: nine one one arriving at the home. I was Zelle Preston. 140 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: She's twenty six years old, has a seven week old 141 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: baby boy, she loves with her new husband, and she 142 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: slumped over on the sofa. Why is she slumped on 143 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the sofa? Why isn't he performing CPR? You know, Alexis 144 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: terres Chuck, You and I sat through, i think, every 145 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: single day of testimony of the Scott Peterson case, and 146 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: everyone he had a great defense attorney, Martin Narregos, who 147 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: we have never agreed on one thing, not even but 148 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: he's still a very good defense attorney in court. He 149 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: went on and on and on explaining away why Scott 150 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: Peterson didn't go on searches for Lacy, had to be 151 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: dragged to the vigil, wouldn't speak publicly about help me 152 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: find my wife, nothing, and everyone detractors would say, well, 153 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: you know what, you can't judge him by the way 154 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: he's at to get a time like this. O H 155 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: E L L N O. Alexis, I will because it's 156 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: not judging, it's deducing evidence. Alexis. It's all the markings 157 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: from all the cases that we have covered. It's a 158 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: sign that somebody is hiding something. And so Scott not 159 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: going to any of those vigils or looking what are 160 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: you like pen pals. You're on a first name basis. 161 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: Now I do call in Scott, mister Peter, mister Peterson. 162 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: I don't know it sounds so stop. You can do 163 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: that on your own time, not mine. Blaze for he 164 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: is you know what he was doing the whole time 165 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: he was texting with his girlfriend. He was telling her 166 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: he was in Paris. He was plotting to get together 167 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: with her. A kid. Wait a minute, Alexis excuse me. 168 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: Do you remember when he said he was in Paris. 169 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: He even made up friends for his names and gave 170 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: them stereotypically French names like Jacque and Pierre things. I mean, really, okay, 171 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: talk about weird behavior when your wife is missing, or 172 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: in this case, let me bring it back into the 173 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: middle of the road. Get out of the weeds. This 174 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: guy's just sitting there. He hangs up on nine one 175 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: one when they try to tell him how to do CPR. 176 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Right there, I got a problem. But you know what, 177 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: don't just listen to me. Listen to our friends at 178 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: crime online. Take a listen. This morning, the three and 179 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: eight year old daughters woke up two open presents. At 180 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: some point, Wallace dragged Preston's body into the living room 181 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: and placed it on the couch. He put sunglasses on 182 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: the body, and, according to the oldest daughter, Wallace told 183 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: the children, Mommy ruined Christmas. She got drunk and ruined Christmas. 184 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: He then videotaped the children opening their Christmas presents in 185 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: front of her. The eight year old says she remembers 186 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: touching her mom and she was rock hard and cold. 187 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: She says she called mommy, but Preston didn't respond. You 188 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: know what that's like drinking from the fire hydrant. I 189 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: got so much facts just then from Jackie Howard at 190 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: Crime On One. I really don't know where to start 191 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: with that. The reality is Melissa Hotmeyer, chief of Special 192 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: Victim's Unit at Prince George County. I would have to 193 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: turn that into about three or four giant posters to 194 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: break it down each sentence, to break it down into 195 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: ten or eleven, twelve points for the jury. Let's just 196 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: start with putting sunglasses on mommy and propping her up 197 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: on the sofa. Wait, no, no no, no, no, no, no, Melissa, 198 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: let's start. Hold on, Melissa, I'm gonna go to a 199 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: shrink on this. I'm sorry, I need an MD, psychiatrist, 200 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: not just a JD like you and myself, Doctor Angie. 201 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: What about that Christmas memory where the little girl goes 202 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: up to mommy who's sitting on the sofa wearing sunglasses 203 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: on Christmas morning, Daddy pi ss s on her. That's 204 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: a technical legal term that I don't allow the children 205 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: to say. By telling the children, Oh, mommy's drunk, she 206 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: ruined Christmas, and the little girl to defend mommy runs 207 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: over to mommy. Mommy's cold and rock hard. Well you 208 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: think that little girl will ever have Christmas? Oh, it's 209 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: so sad, Nancy, How could she feels all the way? 210 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: How could she ever, how could she ever have a 211 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: Christmas morning that that doesn't go through her mind? I mean, 212 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: that poor child is going to need so much therapy. 213 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: We can we just talk about another aspect of this too, 214 00:13:53,640 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: Melissa Hotmeyer, veteran trial lawyer, putting sunglasses on mommy and 215 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: telling the children, oh, mommy's drunk. Let's call staging. Yeah, 216 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: And it shows such a level of premeditation and an 217 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: attempt to cover up what happened. That is significant evidence. 218 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: If I was the prosecutor in this case, and you 219 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: know you don't want to say it's good evidence. What 220 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: happened here is definitely not good, but it is powerful 221 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: evidence for a jury to hear. To doctor Michelle Dupree, 222 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: forensic pathologists from her medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation 223 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: Field Guide, and former police detective to Boot, I mean 224 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: this woman's guide at all, you know, doctor Michelle Dupree, 225 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: how long does a body think of ambient air in 226 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: the home? Was just say sixty nine degrees? Say sixty 227 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: nine degrees? How long would it take a body to 228 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: go cold and rot? Card to Nancy, As you mentioned, 229 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: it does depend on the ambient temperature and other factors. 230 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: What was the state of the body before they were deceased. 231 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: We know that a body will decrease in temperature approximately 232 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: one point five degree cyntegrade for every hour. So that 233 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: way we can ask, Okay, are you talking to me 234 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: in centigrade? Did you just say that? I keep trying 235 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: to tell you, I'm just a JD. Speak to me 236 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: and regular people talk. I only understand fahrenheit. Okay, Now, 237 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: if you ask one of my twins, they can tell 238 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: you all about Celsius everything. But please help me, Okay, 239 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, what so the body temperature will decrease 240 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: a little every hour, depending on the ambient temperature and 241 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: other factors, but approximately, given the situation, day would probably 242 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: the decrease in temperature and become stiff, as we say 243 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: rigor mortis, and anywhere from eight to twelve hours. Well, 244 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: what I'm getting at as she has been dead for 245 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: eight to twelve hours, her body propped up on the sofa, 246 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: clothed with sunglasses on, and all Daddy can tell the 247 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: children is Mommy's drunk. She run Christmas To Laurie Galloway. 248 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: Miss Galloway, it hurts me to think that our discussion 249 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: is hurting you, But this is what happened to your 250 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: friend just twenty six years old. When what was your reaction, Laurie, 251 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: when you learned that she had been propped up on 252 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: a sofa, had been dead eight to twelve hours, had 253 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: been clothed and got sunglasses put on her face. When 254 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: nine when one arrived, it was excruciating. And I knew 255 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: too much already. I knew a lot of the background. 256 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: I knew how much Zezi wanted to leave the situation, 257 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: how many times she tried. So when I heard that, 258 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: I knew so much already. But to then I think 259 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: of the children, and I know each of the children personally, 260 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: to think that they had seen that, and my immediate 261 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: thing was what is to happen with them? How is 262 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: this going to affect with them and the rest of 263 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: their lives? It was It was really a lot to 264 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: be able to take. It was just and I just 265 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: knew too much. I wish I didn't. Maybe it wouldn't 266 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: have hurt so much. Time stories with Nancy Grace Floor 267 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: Galloway is with me. This is Zell's very dear friend. 268 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: She is founder of the Eli Shelter Home for Abused Children. 269 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: She's the former Mayor pro tem of the City of Anaheim. 270 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: On instuff, she's at Lorie Galloway Twitter at Laurie Underscore Galloway. 271 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: And the reason I'm giving you all of these credentials 272 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: as I learned prosecuting felonies Lourie and as a volunteer 273 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: at the Battered Women's Center for nearly ten years on 274 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: the hotline that out there in the world, a lot 275 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: of people believe abuse domestic violence as we call it, 276 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: to try to make it that's quite the euphemism family violence. 277 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: They think it's somebody else. They think it's poor people 278 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: or uneducated people, or some other race or some other 279 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: country or some other section of town. It's not. You're right. 280 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: I had Well, I can't say who I had called in, 281 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: but a very prominent politician in Atlanta at the time. 282 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Wife would call the hotline all the time, and we 283 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: all knew it. But she did not want her husband arrested. 284 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: She just needed somebody to talk to. She couldn't tell anybody. 285 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: And I would walk away just with my stomach clinched 286 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: like that, knowing what I know. And that's just what 287 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: you just said. Yeah, what did you know? When you 288 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: say you knew too much? What did you know? Well, 289 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: Zelie was wanting to get out of the situation, and 290 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: he was just just stronger in so many ways and manipulative, 291 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: and it was a perfect case scenario as far as 292 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: for him because he could control. He knew how to 293 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: get her to do things that she didn't want to do. 294 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: And it wasn't at all that she didn't know what 295 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: was going on. I mean, she tried to do everything possible. 296 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: I would. She had resources, she knew she could come 297 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: to us and that we would protect her with everything. 298 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: She was in college at the time, she knew about 299 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: domestic violence. She wrote papers that got a pluses on 300 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: what domestic violence was and how to recognize it and 301 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: how to protect yourself from it. So there was so 302 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: much that she knew, but there was so much about 303 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: Zizi that made her this kind of victims. But yet 304 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: it was she was knowledgeable, she knew what was going on, 305 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: she did not have the strength to get out of it. 306 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: To your daughter, Angela Arnold Psychiatrists out of Atlanta and 307 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold dot com. This is one of your specialties. 308 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: You deal a lot with women and their emotional ups 309 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: and downs. This woman wanted to complete classes at Cyprus 310 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: College and become a domestic violence counselor. Yet she's a 311 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: victim of domestic violence. Not only is she a victim 312 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: of domestic violence, Nancy, didn't you also say that she 313 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: just had she had a seven week old baby. I 314 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: mean to me, that puts a whole other level of 315 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: something on this. I don't think that that's a medical diagnosis, 316 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: a whole other level of something. What well, what I'm trying, 317 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: what I'm what I mean to say is that now 318 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: here she found herself with a seven week old baby. 319 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure how much she had tried previously 320 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: to get out of this relationship, if she had, but 321 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: then you find yourself strap down with a new baby 322 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: and it was his baby. Correct, yes, her new husband. 323 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: You're right, a whole another lair well, the story unfalls. 324 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: What does the husband, William Wallace say, listen. Wallace told 325 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: police that Preston had fallen over the threshold of their apartment. 326 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: She landed face first on a glass coffee table, shattering it. 327 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: Preston's oldest daughter testified that Wallace asked her to pull 328 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: pieces of glass from her mother's body before he carried 329 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: Preston into a bathroom, where Wallace dropped Preston. Her head 330 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: hit the side of a toilet seat, according to the daughter. 331 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: Wallace says at some point he noticed Preston was gurgling 332 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: and having trouble breathing. He says he tried to revive 333 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: her in the bathtub by turning on the shower, but 334 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: that didn't work. He told police he pulled her out 335 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: of the shower by grabbing her around the torso, but 336 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: he told Preston's mom he had pulled her out by 337 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: her feet. At that point, he put Preston into their 338 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: bed then passed out beside her. Does that jive with 339 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: an earlier statement he gave listen Christmas Eve, the couple 340 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: into the neighbor's party, but began fighting. That fight continued 341 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: once they were back in their home. According to the 342 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: Orange County Register, Wallace admitted that he had quote tossed 343 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: Preston around a bit during their argument, and that he 344 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: caught Preston dragging her back inside their Anaheim apartment when 345 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: she tried to run away. One neighbor says they saw 346 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: Wallace lifting what looked like a body at the apartment gate. 347 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: The paper reported police found blood in the apartment, holes 348 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: in the walls, and a door off its hinges. Holes 349 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: in the walls, door off hinges, police gathering information Take 350 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: a listen to the coroner's report. According to the coroner's report, 351 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: Preston died of blunt force trauma to the head, rendering 352 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: her unconscious. A police report says Preston sustained four to 353 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: six blunt force injuries and her brain hemorrhaged. As police 354 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: gathered information and Wallace's story changed repeatedly, there seemed to 355 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: be at least four points in which Preston sustained those injuries. 356 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: Wallace tells police that as the couple argued, he pushed 357 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: her and she fell back onto the mattress. I want 358 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: to go straight out to doctor Michelle Dupree. You know, 359 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: pushing somebody onto a mattress, I hardly think is going 360 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: to be a cod cause of death. You're the former 361 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: medical examiner forensic pathologist explained, how is she getting bludgeoned 362 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: dead with? I think the reporter says four points of 363 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: injury by falling on a mattress. Nancy, that's pretty hard 364 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: to do. I think you're absolutely correct. There was. She 365 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: was struck with a blunt object of some type. He 366 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: may have pushed her and she fell into a glass table, 367 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: but she was also struck with something else at least 368 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: three other times. To have four injuries, four injuries, and 369 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: to find the injuries on autopsy, what does that tell you? 370 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: So that tells me basically that she was hit with 371 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: an object, that it was not something that she did 372 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: to herself, It was not a fall of some sort. 373 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: It tells me that she was struck with a blunt 374 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: object by someone else. How can you tell when you 375 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: look at an injury? Doctor Michelle Dupree that it was 376 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: a blow from someone else. So Nancy, oftentimes we will 377 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: find something, especially in the head area, we will find 378 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: a depressed skull fracture, and that is an indication of 379 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: being hit with a blunt object. On other parts of 380 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: the body, we look for something that's very important and 381 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: that is patterned injuries. Patterned injuries can tell us so 382 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: much about what happened and what object may have been used. 383 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: Crime stories With Nancy Grace, can we just talk common 384 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: sense for a moment. She has got former La County 385 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: Shares Department twenty six years, Special Victims Bureau. How many 386 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: times have you heard, oh, she fell or the baby fell. 387 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: How likely is it that someone is going to just 388 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: simply fallen, trip and die? People fallen trip every day. 389 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: My sister just fell last week as she broke her hand. 390 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: She blocked her fall, but she didn't die. I mean 391 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: it just it defies logic. You hear people say, oh, 392 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: I was changing the baby on the changing table and 393 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: it fell and died. No, you don't just fall and 394 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: die exactly, and with the like the coroner was saying, 395 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: you know, they can help us tremendously. We talked to 396 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: the coroner. We talked to the doctors, we get their 397 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: impression of what they've seen, but then you're also going 398 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: to have witnesses accounts. None of this adds up. And 399 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: she didn't fall into a table. That might have happened, 400 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: but again has been stated that didn't cause her death. 401 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: That would have caused glass and maybe other injuries, but 402 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: the blood forced trauma to the head is obviously not 403 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: from the table. And also Alexi's terres Chuck crimalline dot 404 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: com and lead stories dot com. Alexis, I heard our 405 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: friends at crime online tell us there were four points 406 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: of injuries that correct, there were and the thing, and 407 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: they were all in her head, and there were so 408 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: it was so extensive they couldn't say, well, this was 409 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: the blow, that was the death blow, that she would 410 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: just been hit with something or beaten over and over 411 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: and over and over again in the head. So for 412 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: that to happen naturally, she would have to fall on 413 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: her head with such velocity it could kill her. And 414 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: then I guess what, stand up and fall again and 415 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: again and again, or go down a flight of stairs 416 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: with such velocity that she hit herself in the head 417 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: every single time, four times over no, and then to 418 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: stop it all off, She's dressed, sunglasses put on her face, 419 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: sat on the sofa, and then Daddy tells the children 420 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: Mommy's drunk and ruined Christmas. This is called in our 421 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: line of business posing, staging. Posing a scene, or staging 422 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: a scene can be anything from closing the victim's eyes. 423 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: I worked on one story where the adult daughter killed 424 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: mom and then put a wicker trash basket over her 425 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: head for some reason. A lot of times we see 426 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: defendants cover the face of a dead victim that they 427 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: murdered with a blanket with clothing. The Columbus strangler will 428 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: put all the clothing in the house on top of 429 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: the dead victim after raping and strangling them. If someone 430 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: is killed out in the elements, I've seen many many 431 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: cases where the victim's face is covered with twigs or 432 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: leaves or branches that as a rudimentary as it is, 433 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: is staging this scene. This goes to a whole other level. 434 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: Propping Mommy up on the living room sofa, putting sunglasses 435 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: on her and telling the children she's drunk and she 436 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: ruined Christmas. She's dead from blunt force trauma. Not by 437 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: far the first time we've seen staging. Do you recall 438 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: the case of Israel Keys and one of his mini victims, 439 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: Alaska and Barista Samantha Coney Glass. The morning after the kidnapping, 440 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: Israel Keys rolled her body up and stuck it in 441 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 1: a box in his shed, and then woke his girlfriend 442 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: up and his child up, went to New Orleans, boarded 443 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: a cruise ship, and then came back about two two 444 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: and a half weeks later. Because of the cold temperatures, 445 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: she had frozen. And then he thought her and had 446 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: to apply makeup to her in order to make her 447 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: look more lifelike. You're hearing our friends at Austin method 448 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: of a serial killer. There he applies makeup to Samantha's face. 449 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: Take a listen to more. Please explained to us that 450 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: miss Koenig had already been killed when he took that 451 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: ransom photograph, that he had used a needle and thread 452 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: to make her eyes appear as though she might still 453 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: be alive. So there you hear more about serial killer 454 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: Israel Keys applying makeup. He braided his victim's hair, her 455 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: eyes were sown open to give her the appearance that 456 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: she was alive. That is definitely posing or staging the scene. 457 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: That was from Investigation Discovery Dark Minds. But Israel keys 458 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: Mahie rotten Hill is by far not the only one 459 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: that did that. I'm sure you remember BTK buying torture 460 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: kill Dennis Raider. He would readdress his victims after assaulting 461 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: them and killing them, apply wigs and makeup. Listen to this, Well, 462 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: he actually wasn't going to put her under a bridge. 463 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: It was a foggy rainye like snowy night. He was 464 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: looking for an abandoned barn because that was part of 465 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: his fantasy. He wanted to take her there, and he 466 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: couldn't find it, so he finally just put her under 467 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: the bridge in the culvert. So that wasn't the plan. Again, 468 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: many of his plans did not work out the way 469 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: he expected them to. The other one marine hedge. He 470 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: took out of her house and took her to his 471 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: church where he had taped up plastic around the windows, 472 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: and he wanted to take pictures of her body in 473 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: other women's underwear that he has stolen. Okay, you are 474 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: hearing dot Or Catherine Ransum, author of untold story about BTK. 475 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: She is a professor at d Sell University speaking to 476 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: me about Dennish Raider. I want to go to our 477 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: shrink and I say that in a loving caring way. 478 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Angel Arnold, renowned psychilagrists joining me out of Atlanta. 479 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: There are those are two examples. There's also, well, here's 480 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: a famous one, Ted Bundy. With his victims. He would 481 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: often bathe them when he bade them, applied makeup, redid 482 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: the hair. He wasn't necrophiliac. He would have sex with 483 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: the dead bodies or dead body parts, but he would 484 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: definitely pose and stage the dead victim's body. Now definitely 485 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: need to shrink on this. Go ahead, doctor ansya. I'm 486 00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how to even form the question 487 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 1: on this. Well, I think that I think that it 488 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: might be two different things. I believe that the men 489 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: that killed this young woman posed and staged her for 490 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: the benefit of the children, and it was Christmas and 491 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: he wanted everything to look like it was normal, and 492 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: he was explaining himself about something about her condition. However, 493 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: I believe that in the case of the serial killers, 494 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: when they pose and stage the different bodies they're getting, 495 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: they're getting more out of the act, the act that 496 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: they perform. When they of the serial killing and the 497 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: rape and whatever else they do to the body is 498 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: not finished. They get more out of the actual act 499 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: of staging and posing the body. There may be some 500 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: There probably is some control in that they may get 501 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: some more sexual satisfaction out of that. They can't do 502 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: this to a to a live human being, and so 503 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: they get all of their sexual gratification in their control 504 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: gratification out of posing the dead body. I do believe 505 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: there may be a difference in these two scenarios. However, 506 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, to Melissa Hotmeyer, have you ever heard the phrase, 507 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: don't bring a knife to a gunfight? Okay, well that's 508 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: what I'm about to do. I'm bringing a knife when 509 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold has an oozy but I disagree with her. 510 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: This guy had twelve hours to dress her, to dress 511 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: Giselle Zizi, to pat her hair down after he had 512 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: beaten her in the head. Remember, nobody could see anything 513 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,479 Speaker 1: wrong with her. Her hair was in place, she had 514 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 1: sunglasses on, her clothes were not a bloody. He could 515 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: have put her in bed and said, mommy doesn't feel 516 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: well this morning. He could have gotten rid of the body, 517 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: dumped it somewhere and said, mommy got sick and had 518 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: to go the doctor. We're going to open up our 519 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: presence anyway. No, he had her dressed, he had her 520 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: hair fixed, he had sunglasses on her and propped her 521 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: up on the sofa and video. Did children owe me 522 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: they're Christmas gifts? Like it was a normal Christmas morning? No? No, 523 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: he did this for at least eight to twelve hours. Melissa, Yeah, 524 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think I think you're right. I also 525 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: only have a JD. But this, this is somebody who 526 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: I think is it is getting some sort of gratification 527 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: out of it, or you know, had some sort of 528 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. He's I mean, not the only word 529 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: I can think of his psychopath. Because who would do 530 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: something like that to your two children, to your wife. 531 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: I just can't think of very many things that are 532 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: so traumatic children and are so degrading to the woman 533 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: that you are allegedly married to and love. I'm glad 534 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: you said that, Melissa Hotmeyer, degrading because all I could 535 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: think of was desecrating to Lorie Galloway, A very dear friend. 536 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: Zazelle Preston's just twenty six years old, the founder of 537 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: the Eli Shelter Home for abused children. Former Mayor pro 538 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: tem of Anaheim. Not only did he kill her beet dead, 539 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: but he then desecrated her or, as Melissa Hotmeyer correctly states, 540 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: he degraded her by putting on this charade with her 541 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: dead body for the children. It was just I'm really 542 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: having this is difficult to hear again because it brings 543 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: back all these memories of that time, that evening, and 544 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: you're so right about the time frame. It didn't just happen. 545 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean that party where they had the fight, that 546 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: Christmas party. It started then, so and that was early 547 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: on in the evening, so it was a whole night 548 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: of doing this. And when we hear that it takes 549 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: um to ten hours twelve hours for rigg and mortis 550 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: to set in. That makes sense. It doesn't make sense 551 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: that it was she had died many hours before Christmas morning, 552 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: and so yeah, he had to be that was psychopathic 553 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: to be able to do something like that. And then 554 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, just just be so callous that you could 555 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: take a video of this and oh my gosh, And 556 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: did we even talk about how he put the baby 557 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: to her breast to try to feed the baby, knowing 558 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: full well she had done Okay, well why why what 559 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: did you just say? He put the baby on Giselle's 560 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: chest and because the baby was climbing and wanted to 561 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: be fed, so, knowing full well, knowing absolutely full well, 562 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,479 Speaker 1: that she was already dead, he places the baby there 563 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: to feed. Okay, So that talks really brings in what 564 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: you're trying to say is that he took some kind 565 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: of sick jewelry in this, in watching someone dead, performed 566 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: things that someone alive is supposed to do. What is that? 567 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: It's just, it's so it's so hard to Alex's Teresa. 568 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: What's the latest on the case against husband William Wallace. 569 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,240 Speaker 1: He has been convicted and found guilty by a jury. 570 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: They convicted him of murdering Gizelle. When is sentencing June fourth? 571 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: If he's convicted, i'd murder one in California, he can 572 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: get life behind bars. Correct, Yes he can. He is 573 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: facing life behind bars. We wait as justice h paulas