WEBVTT - Radio Better Offline: Pablo Torre and David Roth 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:03.560 A media. 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.920 Every morning I wake up to one hundred punishments, each 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:10.800 worse than the last. Also that I can bring you 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.000 the greatest podcast of all time. I am at Zeitron 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:26.479 and this is Better Offline. Now that we've got that 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.080 out of the way, We've got many new items in 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.000 the Better Offline merchantore go and buy them. There's a 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.559 zip hoodie, which I fucking love, and a word mark 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.479 shirt and a T shirt, and there's a hat it's lovely. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.320 You can also get infant clothings and I think like 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.080 if you put that on a baby, though, they will 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.640 take the baby from you anyway. So today I'm joined 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.239 by the incredible Pablo Toure of Paplatory Finds Out and 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.479 David Roth of defecta co owner of Defector and a turtle. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.480 I believe, Yes I do. I am the co owner 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:54.040 of a turtle. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:55.000 What's the turtle's name. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.480 Turtle's name is Marvin, Marvin uh and he is what 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.520 a pair of turtles? But Marvin is the surviving turtle. Oh, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.080 oh yeah, it's fine. 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:05.679 They had he had. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.880 The other guy had a good long life. George had 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.520 a good long life, okay, And something you don't learn 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.080 when a man sells you a turtle out of a 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.920 bucket of dry wall on Canal Street is. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:17.280 Oh, you got a Giinatown turtle. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.920 Yeah, I got a Chinatown turtle on an impulse twenty 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:20.959 four years ago. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.840 Oh wow, so you've had them a while. 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:23.720 Yeah, they live. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.560 Forever, like the people that the vets that treat them 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:28.840 are also the vets that treat birds. And the lady 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.840 that when I took Marvin to the vet because he'd 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.720 been eating parts of the tank, I was told this 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.080 was normal, that they happen. Whatever is around goes in 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.920 and then it stays there until such time as he 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.160 starts acting alarmingly enough that you take him to the vet. 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.080 She also treats birds, and she was like, yeah, this 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.880 is a This is a thing with your pets that 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.760 are basically dinosaurs. Is that if left to their own devices, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.920 they will live for as long as their owners. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.040 which is cool to think about for the rest of 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:57.440 my life. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:58.559 I got this little pet. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:01:59.280 I mean he. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.840 Doesn't like me, Like, that's pretty they do they show affection? No, 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.480 I mean no, like it would be hard to tell. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.840 Like if I pick him up and like, you know, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:10.160 give him some pets on his sh. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.799 You appreciate your Bernie Sanders. I do communicate with him 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:18.359 in a series of accents. Yeah. He responds well to Bernie. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.120 Once again asking that you eat this piece of ridicuo 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.840 like your tank. Yeah, he well, they I guess that 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.600 is how he responds to it is by eating the 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.720 piece of ridicio that I've lowered into his tank. He 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.280 loves chickeries. What's chickery any kind of chickeries? You know 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.679 your cabbages, Castel Franco. I know Pablem's not talking about this. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.320 I'm mostly here to throw Bernie Xander's cues and cabbage reference. Yeah, 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:44.600 thank you and forth with Rod. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.960 And that's what we're talking about today. So both of 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.720 you guys are some of the most gifted sports broadcasters 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:55.000 and writers I've ever met. Not blowing smoke, I don't give, 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.200 but I think both of you have also done something 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.760 really incredible with like the format in the sense that 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.000 it's not like it's about sports insomuch as sports is 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.360 part of the world and culture itself. Even in Pablo, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.320 you're like Jordan Hudson thing and the Bill Belichick stuff 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.240 that was fascinating to me. Despite honestly wanting to know 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.000 less about Bill Belichick, who is the former and the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:17.120 many non sports I. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:18.679 Love the disclosures here. 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.240 Yeah, yeah, the many non sports listeners say a sports episode, 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:23.959 how dare you? Oh my god, do you want to 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.280 hear me fucking talk about Kevin Russ again? Or do 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.560 it in like one day? I'll probably do it on 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:29.280 this podcast. 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:30.519 You're already doing I'm. 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.560 Already doing it though, but it's fascinating because it's. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.160 The underline that I could give you ninety minutes on 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.320 the turtle. We already know that that's true, so that 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.120 threat will hang over the rest of this podcast. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.640 Oh, I'm getting emails asking about more fucking telltle stuff. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:42.640 I don't have turtles. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:44.160 Wait? 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.520 I didn't even ask, have you? 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:50.240 So talking of it ended poorly, small, old wretched things. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.240 Bill Belichick is the coach now of unc University of 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.720 North Carolina football coach, and he was the coach of 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.520 the New England Patriots. And he has a go friend 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.520 who is twenty four years old. So it's not really 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.720 about the sports. It's about that there's just this random 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.720 woman who has ingratiated herself into dunkin Donuts commercials and 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.000 the like, and you kind of broke that story open 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:12.840 in a very interesting way where it wasn't like just 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.880 you on your own talking. You had to forget who 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:15.240 else you. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.360 Had on Katie l and Michael cruz Kan as my accomplices. Yeah, 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.240 in this journalistic act of alleged malpractice. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.600 Oh and now practice. According to Bill Simmons, who will explain. 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.680 The bills, the bills in general aren't aren't necessarily cottoning. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.560 Most of your upper New England bills have had some 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:33.360 issues with. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.160 It, your William problems. Yeah, And it's it's funny because 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.240 the way you tell that story is not that you 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:40.520 get a lot of people who do they talking to 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.200 the camera stuff, But it feels that you kind of 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.800 regale people with the tails and the journalism while also 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.440 doing quite firm, well researched stuff as well. 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.800 Yeah. I was inspired by one of the things that 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.640 has baffled me the most on YouTube, which is the 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.960 unboxing video. Because the Unboxing video. Once I learned that 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.719 there's this kid, I assume your audience is very familiar 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:01.880 with Ryan's toys. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:02.560 I'm not so. 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.720 I weirdly am familiar with Ryan's toys and I don't 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.599 I don't have children, and my niece and nephew do 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.520 not watch that ship and yet. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.240 My child does not watch YouTube ever. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.680 But this is just it's a kid, and in the channel, 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:20.000 I believe, I believe we've watched Ryan, the eponymous Ryan 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.240 Truly age in real time, thirty one years old, and 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.080 he's been making like NBA Max contract money. Beyond that, 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:29.680 well beyond that. Now I'm in the second and he 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.159 just yes, but but, but but toys. Ryan's toys. His 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.520 parents bring him toys that he then opens up and 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.359 plays with, and the audience is in the tens of millions. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.120 He is an market type on YouTube. He's a he's 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.000 a genre on too himself that has inspired so many imitators, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.400 all of which spoke something fascinating because you're watching again 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.400 take the if you can put the pedophilia aside for okay, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.719 and you're just watching a kid open toys. The questions 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.880 like that. That's not legally speaking, Roth, You know what 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.080 I do and know what I have to do legally speaking. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.400 I had a talk with you before we walked up. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:10.719 You said you wouldn't call me out on my on 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:11.359 my disclosure. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.240 I just think you were serious. I thought you were bluffing. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:14.360 I thought it was a power thing. 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:19.080 Listen, circum if you just take this as a why 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.440 is this so popular? Question? Right, there is something fascinating 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.680 about it. You are watching, you are vicariously living through 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.200 someone else authentically be surprised and delighted by something inside 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:35.480 of a box. And this format has been imitated, copied, 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.039 spread throughout YouTube. And so the whole idea of what 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.800 if I could authentically surprise and delight a friend of mine, 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.599 not with a I don't even know if a power 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.520 ranger is is a reference. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:47.720 But something you found right? 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.440 But but journalism actually right? What if the toy is 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.160 journalism that they can then open up and play with 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.440 and poke at and ask me questions about what if 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.120 I did that? What if I could just sort of 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.640 channel the thing that the sun god, that is the algorithm, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.080 seems to enjoy about the unboxing video? What if I 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.320 could do that for journalism? 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:07.680 Right? 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:13.360 And so I did exhaustive, insanely exhaustive reporting into the 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.120 Bill Balichick Jordan Hudson question, which is also a story 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.320 about the highest paid employee in the state North Carolina 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.720 public employee, who is also the archetype of a certain 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:27.119 privacy discretion. Do your jobness sun Zoo cosplay now being 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.520 sort of the opposite inverted by this woman who is 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.760 now running his life beyond just the age gap stuff. 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.400 What if I could do that for Katie Nolan, Michael 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.160 cruz Gane and surprise and delight them with what I 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.480 had investigated, right, And so that's kind of my solution 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.240 to trying to make YouTube. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.800 Content and also kind of like a kind of radio 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.000 show host as well. It's you've got like quite an 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:49.200 interesting setup as well. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.160 Yeah, man, we try to do. Look, the show is 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.800 audio first, insofar as when I edit this show, I 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:56.560 am only. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.080 Listening to you're editing it on your own. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.240 We have a staff of a half dozen few people 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:01.720 who are on the editorial side. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.280 But me, I always I imagine you're right. Just I 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:06.600 was gonna say if you did that earlier on that 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:07.880 sounds not connecting. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.360 Even Sobird just like five different credits to the name iPhones, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.000 shocking everything on iPhones. I am doing a past an 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.720 editorial pass which I am making cuts and all that 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.120 stuff restructuring. But I'm only listening because I want someone 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.520 who's only listening to not have the question of like, 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.960 and it feels like they thought about a second, right, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.120 But also we are a three camera setup in our 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.360 studio such that we are YouTube show, so that nobody 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.320 watching on YouTube things they thought about a second, and 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.320 so we are kind of torturing ourselves to be a 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.440 fully fledged product. And already you can sense the sort 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.839 of like the discomfort viscally of being a journalist who 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.439 is making a product that I've analogized to a YouTube 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.600 channel that is definitely not for pedophiles. We've established that 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.640 you not say this more clearly, but but trying to 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.000 be where people are with the knowledge that they probably 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.160 won't switch platforms, They'll probably just gonna live wherever we 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.640 find them, and we just gotta we just got to 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.079 give them, hopefully something that they can spend some time. 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.240 And you're fully independent or are you backed by some 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.160 like the is. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.160 Dan Lebttard a corporate monolith? 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.280 I don't know who that is. I love that technically 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:18.760 is a private equity entity. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:20.960 That's how you say that. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.440 Do you know about the metals actually really interesting? 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.440 No, I don't. But also I thought he was about 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.800 todd Well like like the French. 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.280 Like the Boston the French bread. 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.240 Yes, the French Boston. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.240 Dan Dan Dan la Bastard is my corporate partner. 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:37.080 That's a real disappointment. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.800 A Cuban guy with a French name who looks white. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:41.959 All of this is very in a country only. 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:44.120 But beautiful. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.920 You should like, I would love problem. Maybe too modest 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:48.760 to do it. Mental ark is an interesting experiment. You 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:49.480 should talk about it. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.360 Yeah. So basically, Dan Lebutard left ESPN took his RSS 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.000 feed with him, which is the key to starting a 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.400 new business and microwaving of business is have your auto faith, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.440 have your feed right. And so what he did was 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.439 he partnered with John Skipper, whos before president of ESPN, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.079 and they did not want to hire any ad salespeople, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.959 and so their licensing partner wound up being draft Kings 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.600 and DraftKings you may know from every ad you've ever 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.240 seen during a sporting event and otherwise. The point being 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:27.640 that Dan, who wanted freedom, wanted editorial non interference whenever possible, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.640 found an arrangement in which, yes, the company got to 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.120 choose its own editorial docket got backed by this company 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.120 in which, by the way, I don't know if you 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.560 pay attention to sports or better, I have not, but 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:44.280 they have the money now. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.120 Yeah, it's it's kind of getting in bed with one devil, I. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.960 Guess, and and for legal reasons as well, I will 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:55.280 not comment. Yeah yeah, yeah, but but but the short 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.040 answer to where I am is that they funded Metal Lark, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.079 decided we want to start a new show from scratch. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.640 We want to trust this guy that we are friends 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:09.880 with and and know and hopefully trusted, and uh, I 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.160 got to create a show from scratch in now the 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.480 vision that you have seen or heard. But where I 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.400 am now, to speed run through my trajectory briefly, is 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.760 that uh, Parbatory finds out is no longer in the 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.040 licensing deal with DraftKings. We are now independent with Metal 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.280 Lark as our co owner, but looking for a partner. Okay, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.400 And so if you're listening out there and you have 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:40.080 a maybe open a yeah, they're definitely very good. They're good. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.800 They got now but we we we we. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.600 Just met with Palenteer. That's great. They really understand your audience. 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:49.720 You should know the social. 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.400 Everything about your audience. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.760 The w WE is not presenting us actually, and Dreill, 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.760 what is interesting to me about this as somebody who 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.760 also works in independent media. We'll talk about in a moment, 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:02.400 I guess. 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.240 The way that you spent the money that you got 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.480 from the corporate partner was like, obviously, the show looks good, 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.000 it looks pro it sounds good, like there are talented 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.480 people working on it. I've friends Jeb Lund did it 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.600 was a guy that I do another podcast with Hallmark Movies, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.520 not out sports or yes, but like a subscribe yeah, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.200 but did a feature with you guys, and was like, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.440 I'm not I wouldn't say I was jealous exactly, but 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:34.880 I was very impressed with the report repertorial apparatus behind 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.640 all of this, and it's like it is it seemed 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.240 more like working with sixty minutes than it would be 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:40.840 like doing a story for Defector. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:42.400 You're so much better at matching my show. 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:43.959 I don't know, man, it seemed. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.200 But what I mean by this was that basically, like 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.400 there were producers, there are people that were like, I'll 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:49.480 file that foya for you. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.200 I will do Like we are trying to be an 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.200 actual news magazine, an era in which news magazines are 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.160 either compromised in various ways or does dead. Now we're 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.320 just kind of giving up on doing that, right So, Jeb, 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.440 by the way, who I cannot truss is enough co 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.120 host pod with David Roths about Hallmarks. 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.400 Okay, you can joke about this, but every single during CES, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.760 we did like thirteen and a half hours of audio, 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.600 you know, not even an exaggeration, every single episode, and 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.439 I did three thirty minute breaks so sections even at 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.120 the end it was like David will podcast you, and 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.120 every time like joyously, Yeah, okay, so this is great. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.480 I don't like promoting my shit, and it also felt 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.160 weird because I was not holding myself out as an expert, 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.079 but the idea of you know, I'm going off like 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.520 you shouldn't be AI in vacuum cleaners. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.720 Bitch, you know, and just trying to do say that, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.640 trying to be big energy on it, and then at 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.120 the end feeling like and if you like that, you're 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.040 gonna love me, Like breaking down the worst performances of 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.720 Candice Cameron's career every two months. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.080 A guy who kind of looks like Chad Michael Murray 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.600 or Chat Michael Murray. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.720 Sometimes you do get Chad Michael Murray. But yes it 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.400 is like a uh, we're off, we're firefield. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.760 Yeah I don't, but but what you said just to 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.880 catch you ple up was we had Jeb blood And 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.000 as a correspondent looking into his almae matter, which happened 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.520 to be the college in Florida that Ron DEA. Sanders 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.000 had taken over, oh and hed College, the New College 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.360 of Florida, and he had taken it over, it turns 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.319 out by basically bombing it with baseball players. So they 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:18.280 turned over the student body, repoliticizing it, replacing, you may 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:23.120 even say, great replacement, burying them the students, this deep 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.840 and proud history of like, of liberal arts, of like, 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.280 of like hippie dumb even replaced by baseball player recruits, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.560 so that they could then change the demographics of the 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.600 institution as well as refocus everything in the model of various. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.520 Even if they tried to put any of this fucking 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.280 effort into literally anything else. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:46.000 It's all pranks. Basically, if Christopher Ruffo, who shows up 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.680 in that episode, what if he tried to do other things? Yeah, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.000 what if he tried What if he tried jumping out 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.800 of a helicopter? Yeah, I don't know if that's not Yeah, sure, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.240 that's nice of you to say that, certainly, No, no, no, just. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.520 We are just riffing. Yeah, you don't not having fun. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.560 He could do anything. Maybe he flies, we don't know. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.160 But the bit that I wanted to underline with that, though, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.400 is that, like that sort of journalism is hard and expensive, 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.960 but it is also it doesn't have to come out 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.720 the other end as like morally safer sitting in a 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.239 chair talking to a whistleblower. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:20.520 Yeah. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.440 Like the bit that I have enjoyed the most about 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.720 the certainly the bit about like Jordan Hudson is good 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.400 for this. I mean, it's good on its own, but 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.440 like so much of when we talk about journalism, we 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:37.040 talk about, you know, the dangerous state that it's in, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.280 and you know all of that is is true, it's 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.480 also fun, like it is a cool thing to do 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:44.280 with your time. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:44.560 Yeah. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:46.480 And the bit that I think you captured in that. 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.600 Which is sort of like at the core of what 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.560 makes like a good podcast good, is that, like, when 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.320 you're reporting a story, there's this like sort of like 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.920 Flowers for Maaldron one bit where like, for ninety minutes 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.520 after you file the story, you are an expert on 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.200 a thing that you just did all this reading and 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:05.880 all this reporting on it. And then if you're like me, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.720 slowly the curtain drops and then when it goes back up, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.880 it's just like a nineteen eighty nine Dave Maggot and 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.760 Baseball card at an empty stage. All of that goes away. 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.640 But when you know your shit and you're like telling 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.040 people crazy stuff that they don't know and they're responding 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.120 to it, like, first of all, you feel more interesting 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.240 than you actually are, but also, like I've been on 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:26.640 both sides of it, it is fun. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.720 You also learn more about the material as you get 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.600 someone to bounce off of. But I think. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.400 That that part, like I thank you for again pitching 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.680 the show better than I could, because the premise I'm 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:41.120 angling for a job. I mean, well, listen, mister, are 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.119 you kill one more turtle? Something on your heads? 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:46.000 To me? 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.120 The idea here is that this stuff doesn't need to 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.600 just be you know, and you ought to proposition. It's 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.680 like you want to actually hang out while we're doing journalism, right, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.000 And that part of like it is stupid but smart. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.520 It is highbrow butt lowbrow. It is fundamentally silly and 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.920 also nutritious in some meaningful way. That's why I love 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.560 and I'm not yet tired by my job. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.560 And I'm the same way with better offline because I 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.159 don't bother to worry so much about whether I'm perfect. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.080 As many people email me, thank. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:24.719 You, please have people reminding you, thank you. 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.679 Oh, there's a slight echo in the room. There's a 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:27.760 slight echo in my heart. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:28.600 Now, great note. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.160 But it's you get to talk about this stuff that's 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.320 very serious. But when you read objective quote unquote journalist, 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.840 it's just this dry, fucking pallid list of stuff with 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.960 some degree of context, versus the very human reaction you 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.440 can have to the news of the day, even if 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.320 it isn't a conclusive thing, even if it's just open 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.160 aye did this, or the very strange things that constantly 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.760 happen with the Bill Belichick thing like Jordan Hudson getting 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.880 banned from you and see like these moments, these moments 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.359 are fascinating to discuss and lost in regular journalism. I 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.360 find they just they go, well, this happened. Shit. Well. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.080 I also think that so much of our magnetic field 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.760 in journalism is the sun god of the algorithm that 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.760 I was describing before, and for me, I think, you know, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.120 Dave magnum aside, there are just lots of pockets of 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.760 sports that are so much more fun than what the 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.640 a block on a given talk show is that day, 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.080 and I am somebody who often might be participating in 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.280 that a block of like I love look, and I'm 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.600 not here to say sports television. It's merely that they 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.960 have dined at the same buffet for so long that 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.040 there's all this other stuff and so it's hard to 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.360 not just like speaking the language of endless metaphor here, 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.640 but like, what if there's a restaurant that also served 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.200 the other things on the menu? 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:51.600 Yeh. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.000 But even one of my favorite dining experiences I had recently, 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.280 my dear friend Noah Arenstein, friend of the show. I 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.120 went out with him to them Andy cap Fe, which 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.440 is exactly what it sounds like, and he ordered it. 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.560 And there's this guy Chris Crowley there thinking he works 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.359 at New York Magazine or New Yorker. He's going to 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.320 be really pissed. I forgot about that. It was so 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.359 nice to just be there with two experts to just 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:12.919 tell me what the fuck was going on. Then we 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.680 went to the Long Island Bar, I think it's the 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.919 place port and just having them regale with the stories with. 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.760 The Long Island Bar down on the Avenue. Yeah, yeah, yah, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.280 good Burger there, and it. 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:27.119 Was just like try the cheese coats. Seeing around with 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.680 someone who really loves and knows a shit ton about 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.040 something and having a discussion about it. He's electric and fun. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.800 It's the basis of all well not all podcasting, but 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.880 it's the basis of why we like entertainment and why 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.520 we have experts in general. But I feel like it's 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.160 something kind of lost on modern journal like you don't, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:44.840 oh you know us. I had a journalisty the other 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.840 day and be like, oh, yeah, they don't want us 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.040 to do an opinion about the subjects we write about. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.120 I don't want to fucking shoot myself. It was just like, oh, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.080 I wouldn't want the people who know stuff to talk 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.920 about this. They might it's a category. 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:57.840 I also think that it's one of those things where 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:59.879 and I understand how if you work in a s 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.760 pious news gathering organization like you would take this work seriously, 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.560 But there's also something very useful about taking stupid shit 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.359 seriously in this case, which is basically this is another 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.000 bit uh defectory experience with this. We were filing a 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.200 bunch of foyers to unc everybody is to try to 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.880 figure out you know, what are the emails exchanged between 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.920 Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson and the provost and whoever whatever, 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:28.040 Just for yucks, we saw that one of Pablo's producers 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.359 had filed one hundred. 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.040 Yeah, it was. It was just funny because it's like 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:34.959 you can see who else is sort of in there. 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.359 We're doing this today seeing what else people filed. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.760 But I love that, like the idea of I mean, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:42.439 all of those cost a little bit of money, all 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.600 of them takes some time to do, and yet it 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.320 is like you're gonna get a better product out of 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.320 the other end of it. But also it's funny to 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.280 spend time using the Freedom of Incremation Act or stuff 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.520 like that. It doesn't all need to be taking. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.159 Down this very bizarre took lesque man and he is 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.080 extremely I'm not getting into the age discourse. It's not 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:04.879 worth it, I'm but. 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.600 It's the bit that people should know if they don't 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.680 follow sports, is that Bill Belichick is the crustiest, nastiest dude, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.600 just like a guy famous for like being like rude 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:16.480 to reporters, rude with. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.680 People here like a hoodie with holes in it, and. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.679 He looks a Trump. I mean, he's something of that 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.000 Trump spoke about at one Dais or another where he says, 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.720 there's this letter, this letter, this correspondence between Belichick and Trump. 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.520 He's he is in many ways truly the paragon of 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:38.560 what it means to be the greatest coach in football, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.600 many believe, and also the biggest asshole. Yeah, and is 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.280 he is both. And so this being the character at 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.600 the heart of this is partly why Yes, we did 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.360 have one of our producers file hundreds of public. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.880 Record, but that's like to me that and I think 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.480 that all of this stuff that I remember most fondly 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:02.480 reading has that element of like applying a great deal 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.040 of rigor and work, like not just in terms of 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.520 and craft too, obviously, like you wanted to read well 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.920 and sound good and all that, but doing way more 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.320 than you need to on a silly thing is to 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.240 me like basically one hundred times out of one hundred. 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.879 And everyone has a weird proclivity. I can talk about 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.040 for hours. That's why I can't legally bring up jud 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.560 Jo's bizarre adventure on the show anymore. My heart ready 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.360 informed me this morning. But it's just also we all 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.359 have our own things. So watching someone else through that 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.040 and put real love and effort and sincerity into it 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.320 is a powerful and interesting thing. And shooting the shit 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:36.520 with some people that actually give a shit about who 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.440 might not know everything. So it's kind of like friends 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.080 having a discussion but taken seriously. 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.080 Yeah, it's like the sort of dynamic that I imagine 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.280 makes Rogan work for people, which is basically like two 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.000 guys just like you know, going back and. 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.679 Forth for a while. But if like one of those people. 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.840 Has to know what they're talking about, ideally another one 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.320 of them would be funny like that, Basically the armature 0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.600 is there. Yeah, and then if you populate it with 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:01.600 people that you know, like you happen to have two 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.560 really good counterpunchers in there, Katie Nolan, like legendary video 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.000 talents of her that like you do that, and then 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:11.399 like you make sure that you know this stuff like 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:15.440 a to Z Like that's I mean whatever, it's not revolutionary, 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.040 like you said, but it is also like that's just 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.320 a product of doing a good job. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:24.399 It's also something that isn't incentivized given the basic math 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:26.680 of how to do anything now. Right, So the whole 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.159 idea of like we're going to spend a lot of work, 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.119 a lot of money. I mean, again, I cannot stress 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:33.520 enough how much of Dan Lebutard's money I've been spent 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.160 to do this stuff. And I don't expect anybody else 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.240 like the whole question. At a certain point that you 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:41.440 begin to contemplate around like what did we do here? 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.800 What is this format? Why does it work? Who else 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.440 can compete with us in this category? Like in Silicon Valley, 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.679 As you know, they talk about the moat a lot, right, 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:52.199 how do you build a moat around yourself? I am 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:57.600 pleased to report that our moat is just our weird obsessiveness. 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:58.919 And the people the literally like you, and you. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.480 Like yes, No, it's do you obsess about this enough 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.880 such that you want to spend money hiring people who 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.800 are going to obsess about it even more? And that 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.159 is again, if you're gonna start from scratch, it's not 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.000 what I would advise anyone to do. 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.560 I actually don't know if I agree. I like the 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.000 high production. I think taking stuff seriously on the production 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.359 level is good, but I don't know. I have I 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:27.960 put our newsletter this morning's Monday, the sixteenth of June. 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.600 I'll probably do a new podcasts about it as well. 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.200 But it's like, I feel like they all want the 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.160 Joe Rogan of the left, and they're like, how does 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:39.160 this keep happening? We have this amicable OAF who's curious 0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:41.880 about everything because he knows nothing. Oh, and we also 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.280 have this insanely high production thing. We make sure that 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.800 everything's done really well and it sounds good and it 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:50.040 looks good, and it's well done on social and the subject. 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.200 He clearly has someone doing the research for him, because 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:54.040 if he has three hours of questions off there, he 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:55.520 may just be like a true. 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:57.080 Oh, I don't know that he's doing any research. 0:24:57.200 --> 0:24:59.840 No, I don't like for him, all right, yeah, for him, 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:02.199 Like I would not be surprised if he didn't know 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:04.439 who was in front of him, Like who you know, 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.399 who's this, Jamie? That's Donald Trump? Donald Trump? 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:07.880 Is he good? 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:08.600 Is he? 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:09.400 Is he any good? 0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:10.040 Yeah? 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:10.880 Yeah? 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:14.440 Hi? Like it's I mean, there's also Lex Friedman, which 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:15.000 is just a. 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:19.040 Mystery, but it's I have many follow ups about about Lex. I. 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:21.760 Well, my first question is why can't he say a sentence? 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:25.120 He's just like hello, I'm. 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:26.160 Al struck by this. 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:29.000 On those podcasts, things that are like popular that are 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:31.120 not for me. Yes, like that's the story of my life. 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:33.600 It's fine. It's just like it's way easier for me 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:36.000 to even you know, like seeing a few minutes of 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:38.000 ant Man and the Wasp and I'm like, nope, not 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:41.360 that does not go you know, in any of my. 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:42.400 But that makes sense. 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.080 But it's also I'm just saying that it's like not 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:45.520 for me. 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:47.720 The idea of watching a podcast where like someone who 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:53.280 is obviously either both unprepared or just like not good 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:55.000 at talking, Like I don't get how that. 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:59.520 Was mental latency, like he he during the Donald Trump interview. 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.080 I only watch bits of because I don't want to die. 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.760 He goes, Bolatics is a dirty game, and he just pausing, goes, 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:11.760 how do you win at that game? This is the 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.600 most popular tech podcast. 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:14.840 Really good, And it's. 0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.200 Just like, yeah, this is very true. Like it's just 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:18.240 like so bad. 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:20.600 It's like I love that he wears black tie. Yeah 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:23.879 does he? He wears like he always wears like a 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:27.040 black sea with a black tie and a white Stark shirt. 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:30.280 So cool. Yeah, like the cater waiter swag. That's a 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:31.920 really solid, real party down. 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:38.080 Yeah, it looks like a guy John I don't. But 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:40.560 with stuff like that, I'm just insulted by the whole 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:43.800 ex fertment thing. He's so bad. But those podcasts also 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.640 like six hours so long. He did one with Sam 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:49.120 Mormon for like four hours. He could have said anything. 0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.000 I can't watch it. I try to. My brain stops. 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.560 My brain just like shuts down. It's like I've been 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:55.480 in a car accident. 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:59.119 That's an awfully long time to be spending with any dudes, 0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:00.879 let alone if one of the him. 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:03.240 Samuel, and he's just like, yeah, you know dedis senders. 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:06.920 We wild themselves now, And it's like, wow, what is dead? 0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:09.960 How do you computer? 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:10.359 Ye? 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:10.840 I wish. 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:12.560 I hope this is as long as the Irishman. 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:13.160 No. 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:14.600 I want, I want all of that. 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:16.440 I want to be on next Rippons so bad. I 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:18.520 should just be clear. I'm going to read him riddles 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:31.320 like it's going to be amazing. But you look at 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.560 like Theovon or Joe Rogan and you see the productions good. 0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:38.120 Theovon is a good interviewer. He's got despite his insane 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.480 that he has like an insanely long name. Do you 0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:43.520 know his name? His name, his real name? Oh my christ, 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:48.280 it is so happy to be the dutchessh this is 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:52.040 something or other likes or whatever it comes after it. 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:56.200 Theovon's real name is Theodore Capitani von Kernatowski, the third. 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:59.200 That's right, one of the greatest names of all time, 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:01.000 and his the whole thing has been. 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:05.280 Like, yeah, damn, yeah, this is a good decision by 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.920 THEO Vonn to go by Theovn given the proceeding Yeah. 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:11.520 It'd be so much funnyer if he us this whole 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.359 name though, and kept her and they're like, yeah, my 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:18.000 name is current. But but you don't get the sense 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:22.560 from Rogan or Kernatowski, uh, that they that they're condescending 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.040 or that they have like maybe they are in some 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:27.919 way to like people of color, I don't know, but 0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:30.879 they have a genuine like, oh, I want to be here, 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:33.480 I'm interested, I'm interested in getting good material out of you. 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.360 And it's kind of like calm and effortless, and it's 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.680 like maybe there is effort behind it, but it's just 0:28:39.320 --> 0:28:41.560 it feels like a lot of that is just genuinely 0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:43.479 missing for media. It's something you both do in podcasts, 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:46.000 and you obviously do when more podcasts Pablo as well, 0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:48.479 but it's just like, let's get the let's get some 0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.640 interesting ship. Let's have a good conversation, because I don't 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:54.640 know several people who know each other discussing something interesting 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:57.200 might have a good interesting conversation, like you could listen 0:28:57.280 --> 0:28:59.680 to on your on your phone in the podcast It's 0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:00.400 not that hard? 0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:02.360 What's hard about it? Though? I'll tell you what I've 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:04.280 found hard about it? And I mean it's different. 0:29:04.440 --> 0:29:05.560 I don't mean it's not that hard. 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:07.360 No, it isn't that hard. I mean it's not hard 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:10.200 relative to like we know that people like it, you know, 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:12.000 and so like doing it well is a skill that 0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:14.640 you can learn and we've enjoyed when Pablo's come on. 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:19.160 The Defector podcast distraction, like it's like getting to shoot around. 0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:21.720 With a with like Lebron, Like, you're just you've done 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:23.680 a lot of this, You're really good at talking. You've 0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.560 less verbal junk than I do. Like it's fun, you're 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:30.600 a verbal junk baller. I'm just absolutely. 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:32.520 But beyond that, I think that so that is like 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:34.480 it's a learnable skill to be able to do the 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:36.680 challenge for me though, is I want to be as 0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:39.040 good at talking or as knowledgeable as whoever is on 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:40.640 and for the most part, I'm not. 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:43.960 And that's not a criticism of me. It just means that, 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.360 like you have to be willing to ask simpleton type questions. 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:49.280 You want to put this in a more empathetic sense. 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:52.760 Same with the listeners, right, they're logging on to hear 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:57.440 you tell them something and maybe you Pablo telling you 0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.960 something that you don't know, and you learning, maybe they too, 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:02.360 We'll learn. It's something Robert and Sophie earlier on said. 0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:04.520 It's just like, if you don't know something, don't just 0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:06.960 ask every time you have to, because there will be 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:07.840 a listener who's. 0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:10.680 Like total I believe it's funny to mention like Lebron 0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:14.240 because oftentimes I have to do the exercise my mind 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.680 of like do I need to explain who Lebron is 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:17.120 to people? 0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:17.640 Yeah? 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:20.440 Like truly, like I presume that the audience that comes 0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:23.320 to my show does not know anything about anything. 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:25.080 And Lebron James is a basketball player. 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.680 If you on the one of the biggest basketball men 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:31.400 we've got, he's he's really good, prominent, he's very strong. 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:37.440 But but what I would say about about like what 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.720 about like meeting the listener wherever they are it is 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:45.400 to me. It is about the exercise of can I 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:48.320 make someone who doesn't give a single ship about this 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:51.000 care about this story? And so we do stories about 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:55.200 fencing corruption, We'll do stories. I mean, I can I 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.240 could waste your time mentioning all of the obscure things 0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:00.920 that I have I think confy into listening to. 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:03.640 I mean, Hankazari or interview was fascinating. That was like 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.520 the furthest from what you agullly do because and he 0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.240 wasn't telling just stories about like the Simpson stuff, like it. 0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:11.720 Was like he was great. And we tried to the 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.080 joke of my shows that were a technically sports show, 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:16.920 which means that like somewhere like an easter egg, you'll 0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.440 see a sports reference. I don't think anybody cares enough 0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:23.920 to check the box, but I'd check the box. And Roth, 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:25.960 by the way, just to the thing. The problem I 0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:28.160 want to pay him is that when it comes to 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:31.600 like thinking about politics in a way that speaks so 0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:36.240 fluently the languages of HyperIntelligence and utter stupidity, no one 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.600 is better at David Roth and diagnosing that in Donald Trump, 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:41.640 that's nice, Like you need to be someone who was 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:45.680 so brilliant that they're also a moron and roth like truly, 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:50.560 it's it's being fluent at both sort of registers. 0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:51.880 And did the one of my favorite ones is like 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:53.080 my good friend Beetle Juice. 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:55.920 Yeah, there's a lot of because the idea of thinking 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.040 about who you could convince him is a real guy 0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:02.040 as a fan of his, he's segning you know, I knew, 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:06.000 well we were friends, we were great friends, but we're 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:06.960 not friends anymore. 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:07.800 Can die. 0:32:08.680 --> 0:32:11.440 But the the bit that I the dumb question thing, 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.760 the version of it that I sort of like, whatever, 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:16.640 this is like positive self talk that he was saying 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:18.040 into a microphone we had. 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:22.120 Bob mold On was Bob old uh hooskerdoo and sugar 0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:24.960 like iconic punk rock musician man. 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.000 And also very strong yes and a sweet yeah. Also 0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:29.840 worked in wrestling and really just like one of the 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:32.040 most interesting guys in the listening as a writer, not 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:34.760 as a as a performer. But he uh, you know 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:36.840 those bands being a great deal to me. M he 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:41.280 is my co host Drew McGarry's favorite musician. And the 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.840 question that I asked him basically after you know he 0:32:43.880 --> 0:32:45.760 had a new album out to listen to it and 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:47.920 I don't know enough about it helped that it was 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:50.600 about music, which is basically just a foreign language to me. 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:53.200 So I can't be like, when you made this decision, 0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:55.920 your fretwork on the bridge here to like I can't 0:32:56.080 --> 0:33:00.320 you know, like I even saying it here, I had to. 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:02.280 I had to do the dumb guy voice to put 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:04.280 it over. But I asked him like is it fun 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:05.040 to write a song? 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:06.800 Like is it is it cool for you? 0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:07.440 That question? 0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.600 And I think I had to get past the anxiety 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.320 of like asking someone I respect a question that is 0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:16.640 basically like something a seven year old would have asked, 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:19.080 and yet like we got a really good answer, and 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.400 also like I wanted to know, you know, like it's 0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:24.360 better to admit what you don't know and ask the 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:27.280 seven year old question than it is to try to 0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:31.360 like bluff and do the expertise thing along with someone 0:33:31.400 --> 0:33:32.280 who's a real expert. 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:34.440 And I have I have this theory that I will 0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:36.400 never be able to prove, which is I think most 0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:39.120 people forget stuff all the time, Like you will be 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.320 on listening to something and be like who's Lebron James 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:46.960 go fuck uh golf uh? You know, or like who 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.040 and like you will forget all terms, Like on the show, 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.040 I ownerous thing and people say you repeat yourself. I 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:54.280 repeat myself, like defining what generated AI's probabilistic, What does 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:57.320 that mean that? Because sometimes you will be listening to 0:33:57.320 --> 0:33:58.840 an hour and a half of me talking, you might 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:03.240 fucking forget something. And also being empathetic I don't know 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:05.000 with like when I'm hanging out with my friends, people 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:06.840 don't know shit all the time. Part of the fun 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:09.200 thing of being in live is helping people know stuff 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:12.520 and having shared experiences. And I love that question of what, 0:34:12.960 --> 0:34:14.960 like I want to ask And this is for somewhat 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:17.880 meaner reasons. My dream question to ask any tech executive 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:21.000 is are you happy? I want to ask sundarp As 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:23.520 Shy are you happy? Because it's a hell of a 0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:26.799 question because you want to say yes, But you know 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:28.960 I've got a follow up what makes you happy? And 0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:30.440 you know they don't have ship for. 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:31.760 Him for all the stuff. 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:33.520 He's the guy that gave the interview where he's like, 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.280 all day I'm just fucking asking questions of our AI. 0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:37.960 I talked to Gemini all day long. 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:40.600 That's such a dela of micro That's what it was. 0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:43.160 No similar gargoyle like yeah. 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:46.120 But it's just profiling on my part wrong. Remove it 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:46.520 from the. 0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:51.120 Podcast profiling of like extremely rich asshole rooming products. I mean, 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:52.239 like you welcome to the show. 0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:54.160 But there was something I think the idea of like 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:56.400 what is any of this four? 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:59.680 Is that a good question to ask yourself? To bring 0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:01.319 it back to Rogan for a second, though, it also 0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:07.280 feels like anyone whose industry is seeing rates of ketamine 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.800 usage increase so dramatically cannot possibly what does that indicate 0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:14.160 to you? It just it just feels like there is 0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:19.480 a fundamental searching for something like fulfillment and a happiness. 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.040 With lonely and by the way, like this the one 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.880 is like like everyone is more disconnected. 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:26.920 And I find that in sports of course, Like if 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.600 there's any lesson to learn from Bill Balichick and Michael 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.080 Jordan and Tom Brady and every greatest of all time 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:35.000 and any category you want, it is that they wont 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:36.640 everything and are miserable. 0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:38.520 Yes, completely, And and. 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:40.640 So how do you fill the void that you thought 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:44.480 the trophies, the money the generative AI was going to fill? 0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:48.279 You search for other things like the Silicon Valley thing. Again, 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:51.840 I'm not, by the way, something I'm frustrated by is 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:56.319 just how now uncool Joe Rogan made psychedelics? Yeah, and 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:58.360 maybe maybe I'm the least cool person to think of 0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:00.960 it in those terms. The point being, though, that there 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:05.080 is something that is missing that people are trying to find, 0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:09.040 and I think, are you happy? I presume that all 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:10.880 of them are actually quite on. 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.800 And I would be this would be a hostile interview 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.560 technique that they will never because one of my favorite 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:19.600 things is that I grew up thinking I was stupid. 0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:21.960 I thought I was stupid until like two years ago. 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:24.760 I'm deadly fucking serious. It's an incredible technique. 0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:27.759 Though no amount of you have like a real nice house, Yeah, 0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:29.680 like there was no point where you were like damn, 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:30.920 non accidents keep happening. 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:32.359 No, it's luck. 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.400 Like I like how the thing where you have the 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.759 accent that makes you sound smart didn't work on you 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.120 as it did, But it means though. 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:42.759 It's worked on me from the very beginning, Like, damn, 0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:44.719 this guy really knows his Raiders football? 0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:46.439 How did he learn so much? 0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:48.440 Oh God, I'm gonna get emails about the writers. Do 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:52.520 you know? Looks good? I think broke anyway, But it 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:54.839 means that I've never walked into a room being like, oh, 0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:57.840 I hope he doesn't think I'm stupid, which is actually 0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:00.200 useful for the business as well. But in I need 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:03.839 give an interview, I feel like interviewers Neilipetel will go 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:05.359 in there and be like, I'm going to ask the 0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:08.040 best fucking questions in the world, not the most useful, 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:10.839 not the most interesting, but the ones that make them 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:14.640 sound good and get the biggest, most self ingratiating thing done. 0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.560 And I understand why, but it's you have access to 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.400 someone that people don't have access to. Can you at 0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.000 least get something new? Can you at least not line 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:26.840 them up with the buffet of options. I don't know 0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:28.720 if you get it as much in sports, just because 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:31.680 if someone lies about being good at sports and then 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:35.000 goes and plays poorly, you can notice. 0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.800 That, Oh but sports is full. We did an episode 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:40.800 actually that's kind of related to this, and it's about 0:37:41.480 --> 0:37:44.879 kind of the tyranny of jargon in sports and how 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.560 lots of people are trying to perform the vocabulary of 0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:51.600 a coach, which is kind of like, right, like a scout. 0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:54.680 What is the vocabulary of a coach or a scout? 0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:56.680 So there's a lot of phrases. Do you have like 0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:59.720 a couple of like brown note like nightmare phrases? 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:00.319 For me? 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:02.680 Is impact winning? That's an NBA one? 0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:05.000 Does that mean it means it's a good basketball player. 0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:07.040 It's the most annoying way to say that. This is 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:09.719 all No, it's not. 0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:11.920 It's not like it that's that's like an it's almost like. 0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.279 An idiomatic just sort of like so they just say 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:16.800 someone's an impact. But there's also just like the Fighter 0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:19.640 Pilot kind of like call sign stuff where it's like, yeah, 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:21.000 Spider to wy Banana, Yeah. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of what within sport? 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:24.719 Oh sorry, just within the game. 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:27.160 So Spider too by Banana? Is this is a play 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:29.400 call that I will not even begin to summary. I 0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:33.480 thought I thought you were literally Spider doing like a 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:34.000 plain thing. 0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:38.320 It is a John Gruden play. I know a listener 0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:39.560 of the pod friend friend of. 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:43.359 It friend, but I don't even know what a friend 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:49.799 Spider apocryphal or it's real not because Ed's been to 0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:54.120 uh Gruden's quarterback. Yeah camp, you were doing squads with due. 0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:57.520 Yeah, Jered Lorenzen coach. It didn't go well. 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:03.360 R I p Yeah, briefs so yeah, but there is 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:06.319 there's all this vocabulary that sort of signals that you 0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:11.880 have the fluency of a of a of of of 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:16.120 of a code that is so indecipherable, uh to the 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:18.359 outside person that it becomes a point of pride. And 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:20.840 so in sports there's just a lot of peacocking around 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:23.359 that language, a lot of like, oh, they're you know, 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.560 they're running cover three there, but they're doing a stunt 0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:28.919 of them a gap to be just like stuff that's 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:31.560 meant to exclude. And so when you say, like a 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.520 person who asks a question that is intended to signal 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:39.560 their knowledge as opposed to help the listener understand anything, 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:41.680 I think of the ways in which people are cause 0:39:41.760 --> 0:39:45.520 playing coaching all of the time. And also it's kind 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:49.040 of why as much as we have already been crapping 0:39:49.080 --> 0:39:52.160 all over Joe Rogan and theo Von something that I 0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.360 do appreciate generally speaking, I've not listen to all their episodes, 0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:58.720 but what they do tend to do is not try 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:02.000 and perform over intelligence. 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:04.160 And the thing is you can say, like I've seen 0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:06.080 some THEOV and I've seen some Joe Rug and they 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.480 fucking host white supremacists in the open it fucking sucks. 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:11.840 You can still look at the format and learn, and 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.319 I think people have trouble separating those things because it 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:18.440 really comes down to they their questions are simple, and 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:20.440 then they get like Jordan pieces of prok. Have you 0:40:20.520 --> 0:40:23.839 seen the Nightmaan Man? Yeah, like you just some insane shit. 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.200 And then he says nothing to that because he dru 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:28.000 rug is like, yeah, yeah, I met I knew a 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:29.160 guy like that. 0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:31.400 That happened to my buddy Eric. Yeah, yeah, there is 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:32.160 that sense. 0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:35.000 I think also there's a difference in sports discourse where 0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:37.840 there's everything that you said about, like the sort of 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:43.480 ostentatious performance of expertise and like inside y you know, 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:46.239 like everybody wants to be plugged in. Yeah, it has 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.799 impacted in some ways, like the language. In fact, I 0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:50.240 just used impact as a verse. 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.239 It's clearly it's mainly something on an impact made an 0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:56.120 impact on like a concussive. You used it correctly, yes, 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:57.080 I guess I did. 0:40:57.320 --> 0:40:59.759 But the way that that's like worked out, I think 0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.360 that there's the way that people like Scoop Smith type 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:06.600 guys here, like Seamstrania dudes, like they write not in 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:10.440 like a syntax that is observable outside of text messages 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:13.960 from Russians to guys like him, that there's something very 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:15.080 like artificial and. 0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.800 Shouts just for the listeners. Is a guy who mostly 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:19.080 says a guy has been traded. 0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:22.040 Yes, he says it first, he exactly, he is five 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:24.080 seconds ahead of the actual public. 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:27.120 And he also was the one that scooped Donald Trump 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:28.040 getting COVID. 0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:30.440 I hate that gets yeah. 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.719 And what sucks is I found out through I was 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:35.719 speaking to someone at the time for some reason I 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.520 can't disclose, and they showed me a clip from the 0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:41.560 barstool show the Yak when it happened, and when they 0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:44.319 showed this guy on their Stephen Chay, and it's just 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.560 like the worst ten minutes of just like a guy 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.160 who made basically was like, yeah, I think Shams would 0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:52.880 break World War three, and just these guys like wanting 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:54.680 him to be wrong, and they just hate every like 0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:59.359 everyone's kind of miserable, like anyway, so Shams just breaks news. 0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:02.480 That's his only and that he's like there's a guy 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:04.319 that does it for the NFL. Yes, a guy they're 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:06.959 trying to make Jeff Passon, who's like an ace feature writer. 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:09.040 They're trying to make him that guy for baseball. 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.640 And the incentives are to be a newsbreaker because you 0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:14.080 are I mean, by the way, when Woj was doing this, 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.759 Adrian Morjenerowski, who I should disclose is a person who 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:22.760 now works for Saint Bonaventure's university. Yeah, he's the GM, 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:26.280 but was making you know, millions on millions of dollars 0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:29.920 being the newsbreaker basically like the human Uh yeah, like 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:33.520 scoop machine that fielding texts and there was just a 0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:35.200 bit n I don't know if you remember this, but 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:37.839 during the NBA draft one year when Woj I think 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:41.440 was at ESPN, so he was working for the broadcaster 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.799 of the draft, but trying to scoop the draft. You're 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:46.759 talking by five seconds ahead, and so in order to 0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:50.680 get through the to thread the needle, uh, he ended 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:53.759 up just not saying the bulls are about to take 0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:58.839 Jimmy Butler or whatever this is. You know, got reck 0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:02.680 conning data or yes, but it's basically like the bulls 0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:06.080 are targeting the phoenix, suns are circling. 0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:08.680 He kept coming up with new phrasing and it's hard. 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:11.239 There's like thirty two picks. So he'd be like, I'm 0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:14.399 hearing that The bulls are in Source so Old by 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:16.560 Wendell Carter Junior. 0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:18.800 At the Spot, which is just, I mean, every single 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:21.560 better off line episode says walks you through Yeah, because 0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:23.680 I cannot fucking think of another way to say it, 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:25.680 and I refuse, so I ge't miss the But. 0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:27.359 You can see all of what we're describing here. These 0:43:27.400 --> 0:43:30.560 are not These are great paying jobs, and they do 0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:33.920 tend to select for people who are like metabolically capable 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:36.719 of responding to text messages for twenty hours a day. 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:39.799 But yeah, although when woj' that's me. When wod left 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.200 the job, he was basically like this sucks. I hate 0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:45.040 it again. I'm having a hard time. Like who's like, 0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:50.280 I'm unhappy? Yeah, was basically his press release and like, yeah, whatever, 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:53.640 the opposite of Michael Jordan, I'm back. He's just like Nope, 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:54.959 I'm not the whole thing. 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:58.640 But like that is a function of all of this. 0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:00.920 But I think the bit that is kind of missing 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:02.759 from it, and you see it when you know, like 0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:05.200 when a podcast works, or if you're reading a story 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.160 that's written by somebody who is given the space and 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:11.279 the time to write something that they like, which is 0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:15.360 increasingly rare all this shit is fun. Everybody's here because 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:18.160 it's fun. No one is here because it is important that, 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.799 like especially with sports, there are aspects of it that 0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:24.160 you can use as sort of like a way into 0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:28.160 seeing things about the broader culture that are important. But 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:30.560 none of this is like mandatory, right, you know, And 0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:33.719 so the game and so to the extent that you 0:44:33.960 --> 0:44:36.520 can talk about it in a way that is fun 0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:40.920 and that is not either like actionable gambling intelligence or 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:45.879 part of some like endless barber shop set to that 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:50.280 where everybody's arguing about who's now or somebody's legacy or whatever. 0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:50.880 Legacy. 0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:53.479 Yeah, that's one of the best topics to play fight 0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:54.600 about with the fellas. 0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:56.799 So the thing is, this is something missing from the 0:44:56.800 --> 0:44:59.799 tech industry, because most people in tech when you talk 0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:03.120 to don't seem to want to talk about anything. You've 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:05.760 got this growth of who is it? I really should 0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:08.839 know this one? Ryan Something. There's a former player who 0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:10.640 has a really good podcast with a bunch of players, 0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:12.959 Ryan Clark, Yes, Ryan Clark, and he just sits around 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:15.799 and he has very serious conversations, sometimes quite joking ones 0:45:15.880 --> 0:45:18.360 with other people that have played games of sports for money. 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.759 And that's why It's interesting because you're hearing their experiences 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:23.880 and it's kind of rough and ready probably a little 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:26.840 bit cleaned up more than we know. I imagine some of it. 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:28.600 I don't know in his case, but I imagine there 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:29.359 are more harsh parks. 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:31.719 Got like a real job to avoid losing. But I 0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:34.040 do think that there's what you're talking about, though, is 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:36.680 that like people want something authentic. 0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:38.719 And the tech industry constantly tries to create it, but 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.120 it always ends up being a venture capitalist and three 0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:43.319 of their investments being like you know, I was using 0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:44.920 general if Ai the other day and it just changed 0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:47.239 my life. How I were going to add break and 0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:49.760 it's just like these fucking people pissed me off because 0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:53.520 tech is so universal, whether or not you consider yourself technical. 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:56.200 Kind of the same way with the sport. It's like baseball. 0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:58.480 One of my favorite Casey Kagawa, friend of the show, 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.120 once said it to me. It's like it's still a 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:02.640 child's game. It's still the same game. Aaron Judge plays 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:05.480 baseball a lot better than a kid playing little but 0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:07.919 he's still hitting a fucking ball, And there was something 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:10.640 universal about that. I think tech's getting there. Perhaps we're 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:13.560 not they're quite I think most people are not accepting 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.120 it yet. But the fact is, I think there is 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:18.880 something deeply personal about tech that no one's fucking touching 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:21.040 in this way, and they should because it's interesting. 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:23.560 This is one of the big edd points to me, 0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:26.399 one of the ones that I think like you were 0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:28.720 first to and should be repeating as often as possible, 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:32.200 which is that basically everybody that at some point everybody 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:32.960 liked all this stuff. 0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:34.400 Yeah, and now they don't, and they still. 0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:37.000 They like they like the stuff, they hate the tech and. 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:39.200 Yeah, And then I think that like and so that 0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:42.480 you know, you create this demand for people that they you. 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:45.600 Know, it's cool to be able to like read anything 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:47.880 as it happens, Like it will make you insane, but 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:52.040 it's not bad, Like it's like kind of gratitude actually, yes, 0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:55.120 And yet like that you take that interest and then 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:57.400 you use that to like sort of leverage ways to 0:46:57.600 --> 0:46:59.680 make more and more money off of it and dilute 0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:01.719 the experience more and more. And I think that that, 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:04.279 you know, when someone is doing that to you for 0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:08.000 information that you need to understand the world around you, 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:10.319 I think that that is criminal. When someone is doing 0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:14.520 that to you for sports stuff. I just think it's rude. Yeah, 0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:16.400 I just think it's like a dick move basically. 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:19.439 Well, I also think big picture that everything I mean, 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:22.160 this is this is going to sound profoundly unprofound, but 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:26.640 like everything is tech, yes, like sports is. It's impossible 0:47:26.680 --> 0:47:29.160 to talk about everything we've basically talked about so far 0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:32.399 has been filled through the lens of tech in ways 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:34.120 that it's different now that it used to be, in 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:36.400 ways that these characters are people that we now know 0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:42.000 in a dimensionality that didn't previously exist. Because you know, 0:47:42.120 --> 0:47:45.440 Jordan Hudson posted an Instagram thing of a philosophy textbook 0:47:45.440 --> 0:47:47.680 that was autographed by Bill Belichick the day that they met, 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.920 which was turns out nineteen years old. I'm not important, 0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:55.000 look again, a little bit important. Actually you know my disclosures, Yes, 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:56.719 you know my disclosures. 0:47:56.920 --> 0:47:59.520 Sometimes when you're looking at Jordan Hudson's Instagram account, it's 0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:00.680 just for work, it's. 0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:05.120 Just because I'm a journalist. But look, my point being 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:09.040 that it's when it comes to like media, the future 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:12.440 of media, it's just impossible to disentangle every conversation I 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:16.279 ever have from the fact that we are working in 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:20.480 some direct or stochastic way for tech companies. 0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:23.120 You even mentioned the sun good of the algorithm. 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:27.680 It's just impossible to not think about standard of success 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:31.960 through the lens of what a tech company has engineered. Yes, 0:48:32.160 --> 0:48:35.239 and so it's it's yeah, it's omnipress. Yeah. 0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:37.680 But the challenge with this too, this is for Defector, 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:39.719 which is more of a it's a print product, ye, 0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:41.960 you know, like it's a website that people subscribe to 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:43.560 and read, and we have a podcast and we do 0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:45.600 videos every now and then, but most of what we 0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:49.880 do is writing that. To Publo's point about the tech industry, 0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:52.439 this has been like the challenge for us. I think, 0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:54.879 like we've got a steady, loyal subscriber base. 0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:55.200 We're good. 0:48:55.200 --> 0:49:00.520 It's a good business. How you direct people to your 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:03.359 posts is not just I mean, it's the challenge that 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:06.320 we're talking about the most, but any place that is print, 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:12.919 as these sort of the tech mediated spaces through which 0:49:12.920 --> 0:49:15.359 people used to discover this as they either dry up 0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:18.080 or actively turned against their users. 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:21.680 That idea of like I guess discoverability is I say 0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:24.080 that word all the time. Yeah, I hate myself everything. 0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:25.880 I mean, it feels bad because it's like it's a 0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:28.240 fake ugly one feels like impact. 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:30.560 But yes, it does feel it has that, but it 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:32.160 kind of goes back to the thing I'm saying about 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.759 the money side. It's like, I don't know this show 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.640 is quite successful in pomp because iHeartRadio put it on 0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:40.839 the fucking rate. Yea, the actual show, but they put 0:49:40.880 --> 0:49:43.000 a bunch of advertising behind it, which is awesome. I'm glad, 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.160 really glad they did it, But it's like a big pomp. 0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:48.040 What a surprise A show has trouble finding new listeners 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:49.920 when they have no discovery and just. 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:53.720 We are we every look the obvious sort of statements 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:57.200 of fact. It is harder to find anything now because 0:49:57.480 --> 0:50:01.239 all of us are fragmented, silo not consuming the same things, 0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:05.520 have personalized feeds. Again explained by the tech industry post 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:09.719 lines that standards absolutely and so true and and some 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:14.600 platforms are now like disincentivizing hyperlinks to places I mean 0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:18.040 literally like this is this is why it's so hard 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:21.360 to get discovered. And so if the standard for just 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:26.280 success becomes do you know that this exists? The game 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.560 becomes I mean again, to return to another sort of 0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:33.160 like axiom, it becomes an attention game because that counts 0:50:33.200 --> 0:50:35.879 as something in a meaningful way, and so to have, 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:39.160 in Defector's case, a subscription driven site and by the way, 0:50:39.200 --> 0:50:42.120 everything that wants to be a subscription yep. So kudos 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:45.440 to we were early kudos to journalism to start us 0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:46.319 to start a. 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:51.799 Premium feed on on you please subscribe any money, like, 0:50:52.560 --> 0:50:55.279 so it costs me thousands a year to do that's nice. 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:59.000 What are you gonna put on the premium Iriday news? 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:02.479 You said, dudes, nudes? I take artistic news. 0:51:02.560 --> 0:51:05.320 Yeah, you have to get all right, the mic magnifying 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:09.759 glass tool. Anyway, it's Friday news and WS. It's why 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.359 I can't say the word pawn either, a pawn because 0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:14.719 you're watching porn stars. 0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:14.920 Huh. 0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:18.759 I'm like, yeah, the show with Rick. Oh yeah, best 0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:23.879 I can do. I'm sorry. Uh, it's just even doing 0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:25.480 that felt dirty. But it was kind of like, yeah, 0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:27.120 this cost me thousands of dollars a year. 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.680 Like I'm contemplating the same thing. What are we going 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:31.840 to put behind our premium sort of. 0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:34.879 Value wall And it's just the only advantage I think 0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:38.040 I really have is that I can write so much 0:51:38.120 --> 0:51:41.160 so fast, and I'm pretty good at the writing, but 0:51:41.200 --> 0:51:43.000 I can just fucking today. 0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:46.520 It was like, your like, average newsletter is my monthly 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:47.319 output in. 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:49.040 Terms of word count, but I don't post it at 0:51:49.040 --> 0:51:50.400 full fifty five pm on a Friday. 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:52.840 That's that's a failure on your part. It's as editorial 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:53.320 best practice. 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:55.360 That's that's what everyone loves and what they signed up for. 0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:58.480 But it's it's fucked. But I also think it may 0:51:58.560 --> 0:52:00.520 end up being something good because people are being way 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:03.120 more direct with what they actually want. I also think 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.680 this is something where legacy media really fucks up, because okay, 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:09.759 you've got the Daily. Actually I want to tell a 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:12.879 really fucked up story. So I heart Media Awards right, 0:52:12.920 --> 0:52:16.800 which I did not win. To Kevin Ruce's very unfair. 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:21.880 When they did an announcement of the different someone was 0:52:21.920 --> 0:52:25.160 in a category, it was they were saying, okay, we've 0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:27.560 got this podcast and The Daily with Michael Barbara, and 0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:30.600 is like and now I went outside and then there 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:33.160 was a politician there and I thought, does he do politics? 0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:36.600 And someone goes, we love you, Michael. I want that 0:52:36.640 --> 0:52:40.440 person found. I want that person in jail. No, who's 0:52:40.520 --> 0:52:44.160 the Michael Barbara super fan like like the Japanese idols, 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:45.160 but for me, Michael Barb. 0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:48.200 I think if you did a live recording of The Daily, 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:50.040 you would have to do it at like the forum 0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:50.680 at Madison's. 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:51.760 That's so sad. 0:52:51.880 --> 0:52:53.759 Yeah, it's tough, man. This is a real hard thing 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:54.520 to get your head around. 0:52:54.600 --> 0:52:56.600 But this is like, but this is the thing with 0:52:56.640 --> 0:52:59.000 these kids. It's a Buddhakana. 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:00.920 He's gonna do a live episode. 0:53:00.719 --> 0:53:03.520 Opening up the fucking pit about Daily about. 0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:06.120 How the subway is too scary. Now, that's gonna be 0:53:06.160 --> 0:53:07.720 the episode that they're gonna perform. 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:11.239 And that's when I'm here and with the wheelbarrows, that's 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:28.000 when I'm just fucking spinning. And the legacy media people 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:31.160 are pissing it away because they have the discovery discoverability part. 0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.319 Don already The New York Times could do so much 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.680 interesting shit, but they're so afraid of this vague objectivity thing. 0:53:36.719 --> 0:53:39.640 I know, probably you have to do your like disclosures 0:53:39.680 --> 0:53:41.960 and shit, but they're just like, nah, instead of doing 0:53:41.960 --> 0:53:44.520 the disclosures, well just too a really boring and hitty job. 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:48.120 What if it was just really dull? And so they 0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:50.160 already have the hard part done and they choose not 0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:52.160 to do anything extra because they're like, oh, well, people 0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:56.600 want this. Have you fucking tried? Have you tried even once? 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.719 I'll say this with sports too, that this is an 0:53:58.719 --> 0:54:01.840 advantage that we have in this space over a place 0:54:01.880 --> 0:54:03.320 like The Times. I mean, The Times has got to 0:54:03.520 --> 0:54:06.160 report on things that are not fun, like so a 0:54:06.200 --> 0:54:08.920 little bit of whimsy, And anytime The Times attempts wimsy, 0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.719 there's this sort of like dog walking on its hind 0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:13.920 legs thing where you're like, we shouldn't be doing that. 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:16.280 Like that you don't experience, but also you're like impressed. 0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:17.600 You're like, well, I didn't know you could do that, 0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:22.320 like please stop. Like the the. 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:25.680 Thing with sports that does sort of like move you 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.480 in a direction where like you could do more of 0:54:28.520 --> 0:54:31.279 that type of stuff, like you don't need to talk 0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:35.360 about sports in any particular way. The challenge for you know, 0:54:35.680 --> 0:54:38.719 I think for sports talk radio, which is something that 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:42.640 I can't imagine an audience that overlaps less in the 0:54:42.680 --> 0:54:46.120 audience of this podcast than the people that listen to Wfan. 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:48.759 But there are like there's guys whose job it is 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:51.760 to just go sit in a studio for five hours 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:54.279 every day and like every day like this is a 0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:57.440 weekly thing, and just somebody calls in and they're like, 0:54:57.480 --> 0:54:59.279 I don't think the island you should do that, and 0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:01.840 then the guys like wrong, and that goes on for 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:05.120 an extended period of time. That is like it's a 0:55:05.200 --> 0:55:07.360 grim way of doing it, but it also is like 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:11.040 it's not. There's very little in that space where you 0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:14.760 see people like sort of trying to do something different. Yeah, 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:16.960 there are other ways of doing it. How it all sort. 0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:21.880 Of defaulted to this like sourpuss play fighting shit is 0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:24.960 a mystery to me other than the fact that it's like, 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.279 if you had to sit and do something into a 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:29.440 microphone for five hours a day, you'd probably come out 0:55:29.480 --> 0:55:30.480 of it pretty crusty too. 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:34.120 So I actually the reason that I like doing the 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:36.239 talking with the micro front thing is actually Penn State. 0:55:36.400 --> 0:55:38.360 I was on the Lion FM. If you are a 0:55:38.440 --> 0:55:42.600 Lion FM listener who heard me on college radio, email me. 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:45.239 You doing talk or play music both okay, And I 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:48.400 was co hosting with Joe Paterno. He did the weekly 0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:48.920 call in show. 0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:50.520 I didn't know who he was. I just thought he 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:51.080 lived there. 0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:53.280 Elderly Italian man from the community. 0:55:53.360 --> 0:55:55.400 No, I did crazy shit. I had like a band 0:55:55.440 --> 0:55:57.680 on this go called Epileptic Pete was epileptic. He had 0:55:57.680 --> 0:56:01.160 his own eight string bass and they played like video 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:03.719 game music. People fucking loved it. You just have some 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:06.680 fun with it. But talk radio is extremely interesting. It's 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.839 extremely when it's done well. It's I hope that this 0:56:09.880 --> 0:56:11.200 is kind of the format I'm going for here. 0:56:11.239 --> 0:56:12.920 Yeah, that was the idea of Vegas. I know. 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:13.480 Yeahs fun. 0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:15.520 I'd never really done that before, and people. 0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:18.520 Because talk radio is actually magical when done right. But 0:56:18.960 --> 0:56:21.640 done right is having a host that sounds like they're 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:24.279 just talking but has thoughts about everything and they've been 0:56:24.320 --> 0:56:26.560 thinking about it to ask questions in some way. Pablo, 0:56:26.640 --> 0:56:29.759 you do this excellently. And it's like it pisses me 0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:33.280 off because it's like they don't want to try anything 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:35.360 other than the exact standard. But I think the answer 0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:38.040 is it's the fucking algorithm. It's that they want to 0:56:38.080 --> 0:56:41.160 normalize and fit into what they think will go viral. 0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:44.680 Baby, which it generally is stuff that makes you mad, right, 0:56:44.719 --> 0:56:46.200 I mean, I feel like that's the idea of like 0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:46.720 that kind. 0:56:46.600 --> 0:56:49.720 Of stuff that's already big. It's that or you already 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:52.840 work for a big newspaper, it's already a big brand 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:55.480 other than the top of the iTunes podcast I don't 0:56:55.480 --> 0:56:58.760 know what's going with everyone is called like the Smile 0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:02.320 Hour with Dr Janine Benin, and it's like each episode 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:06.520 is sixty minutes long and it's like how to smile more. 0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:10.600 I've brought smile exper Jesus to fat and he will 0:57:10.640 --> 0:57:14.360 tell us all about smiling. And they have like ten million, 0:57:15.080 --> 0:57:17.720 like five star reviews like this podcast change and you 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:20.840 listen to them and it sounds like it sounds like 0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:23.600 what I imagine they'd listened to in the sound Goden 0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:24.680 video of Black Hole Sun. 0:57:24.720 --> 0:57:27.520 It's what's coming out of the radio and the ladies 0:57:27.520 --> 0:57:28.360 about to chop the fish. 0:57:28.480 --> 0:57:28.720 Yeah. 0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:32.360 So I think my overarching theory of the future of 0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:36.240 media and everything is that we're all only fans now, 0:57:37.320 --> 0:57:39.680 which is to say that nudes yep, which is to 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:42.680 say that like, there's a bunch of stuff that's wildly 0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:44.680 popular that's just not my kink. 0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:45.320 Yeah. 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:48.640 Now, I can also access the hyper specific thing that 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:51.800 is mine, or create it and monetize it. But it's 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:54.200 that thing of like in an era in which scale 0:57:54.400 --> 0:57:57.120 of the level of the New York Times or any 0:57:57.440 --> 0:58:01.280 incumbent publication is now impossible to recreate. For various reasons, 0:58:01.320 --> 0:58:03.520 including by the way, like to get back to Joe 0:58:03.600 --> 0:58:06.560 Rogan or Bill Simmons, like the first mover advantage of 0:58:06.600 --> 0:58:10.280 like being one of the first podcasts cannot be replicated anymore. 0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:14.120 There's just too much competition. Uh, and short of having 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:17.880 I'm trying to get the genealogy right, short of having 0:58:18.480 --> 0:58:25.040 someone who's husband's sister dated Taylor Swift or something. No, 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:27.880 I'm just like there are certain ways to like speed 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:34.840 run growth, Taylor Swift, adjacent Rogan and Joe Rogan, cross 0:58:34.920 --> 0:58:41.360 pollination being another. In general, Yeah, we're aspiring to smaller arenas, 0:58:41.480 --> 0:58:43.960 but we are also aspiring for the people in those 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:47.880 arenas to give us money. Yes, and that only fans 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:50.600 economy of like, hey, if I show you some ankle, 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:56.000 will you pay me for my increasingly bold takes or reportage? 0:58:56.200 --> 0:59:00.320 Or I can't stress this enough Bernie Sanders impressions. Yes, 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:02.960 it turns out they will. Yeah, I mean that's the 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:04.320 the thing that and I try to. 0:59:04.280 --> 0:59:05.840 Like sort of count my blessings with this with the 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:08.360 factor because like it is, it's a good business, right, 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:11.000 Like we're not we're growing, and yet like I think 0:59:11.000 --> 0:59:12.560 that the challenge withere that you know, we're going to 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:16.520 turn five in September as a website, and that like 0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:19.000 more or less by website standards, is like middle age. 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:21.200 And I don't think anybody like we all love it, 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:23.320 we all love working with each other, like it's not 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:26.480 going to change. And yet there's a part of it 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:28.560 where like we don't all want to just like get 0:59:28.560 --> 0:59:31.200 old and die with our readership either, you know that, 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:33.680 Like we want to be able to do new stuff 0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:35.480 and we want to be able to hire more people 0:59:35.520 --> 0:59:38.720 and change sort of the perspective of the site over time, 0:59:39.400 --> 0:59:42.720 and all of that costs money. I think, just because 0:59:43.280 --> 0:59:46.360 we want to feel like we're growing and not repeating ourselves. 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:47.439 Why do you want to grow? 0:59:47.640 --> 0:59:51.360 So? I like, I like the look it democracy dies 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:53.840 with us, yes, right, that's but that I feel like 0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:56.200 is the cultural moment that we're in. Not to get 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:57.920 too depressing about it, but you can see this with 0:59:58.000 --> 1:00:01.320 like this is the apex of Trump, like he wants 1:00:01.440 --> 1:00:04.280 all of America buried with him like a fucking pharaoh. 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:07.520 This is not a culture that is built to last 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:11.720 beyond his like last breath, because what happens after that 1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:12.800 is none of his business. 1:00:12.840 --> 1:00:15.280 He doesn't care but I actually think it's grimmer than that. 1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:17.080 I think it's one step further and it's everywhere. It's 1:00:17.080 --> 1:00:18.760 the rock on me. It's the growth of the cost thing. 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:21.120 It's people don't know. I know why they want to 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:23.960 fucking grow. They just want to grow. Everything in our 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:25.680 society tells us to grow. What do you want to do? 1:00:25.760 --> 1:00:27.320 I want to be a CEO. I want to I 1:00:27.360 --> 1:00:29.480 want the biggest thing ever. It's none about the product, 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:30.320 It's about the posiness. 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:32.760 This is where I put the the emphasis and like 1:00:32.880 --> 1:00:35.400 the difference for what like Defector does not want to 1:00:35.440 --> 1:00:39.760 become Fox, but like we don't want like to televise 1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:40.360 a bowl game. 1:00:40.840 --> 1:00:43.320 We need a llure of growth still and this is 1:00:43.400 --> 1:00:44.440 not grossly. 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.720 Is just to like because we want to have like 1:00:46.840 --> 1:00:49.200 new people and do new ship. The challenge with it too, though, 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:51.040 is that like the ways in which you can make 1:00:51.080 --> 1:00:53.920 money there And we've had new revenue streams and we're 1:00:54.000 --> 1:00:56.360 making more money. We have ads for people that aren't 1:00:56.440 --> 1:00:58.200 signed in, like they see that now we've got the 1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:00.080 podcasts those have ads, and we sell those. 1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:02.720 Cell phones, those gold plated oh my god s. 1:01:02.680 --> 1:01:04.800 Which are very those are great and we're looking forward 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:06.640 to making those right here in the United States. 1:01:06.680 --> 1:01:08.000 We're gonna make them. 1:01:09.040 --> 1:01:12.920 Cell phone Oh yeah, there is one of those. So smartness. 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.680 One of the biggest comedy podcasts in the world, Listeners, 1:01:16.000 --> 1:01:18.800 has made a MV and O so a cell phone 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:20.840 network that lives on top of T mobile. What is 1:01:21.040 --> 1:01:22.800 V and L I forget what it stands for. It 1:01:22.840 --> 1:01:23.840 basically means you can have. 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:28.720 A suba things mobile. Yeah, you can run your yes 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:29.560 a network. 1:01:30.320 --> 1:01:33.800 Ryan Reynold's gonna lead to the collapse of the telecommunications industry? 1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:34.800 Can that possibly be? 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:38.680 Thank you Daniel our producer Mobile Virtual Network Operator. Oh 1:01:38.760 --> 1:01:43.040 I knew that, Yes, Daniel, thank you. It's but it's 1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:46.520 that really There's a great Slate piece on it as well. 1:01:46.560 --> 1:01:49.320 It was just really echoed how fucking sad it was 1:01:49.720 --> 1:01:53.000 because these guys are like super rich already and super popular, 1:01:54.400 --> 1:01:56.400 but they needed its cell phone. 1:01:56.440 --> 1:01:58.880 Growing for for the sake of just being like, there's 1:01:58.920 --> 1:02:01.200 more money out there to he made is I think 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:03.800 this is an area where like everybody at Defector wants 1:02:03.840 --> 1:02:06.760 to fucking blog. That's our job, that is what we want. 1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:07.840 And that's why I fucking pay. 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:09.280 Yeah, and I think that like. 1:02:09.240 --> 1:02:12.280 And it's why I feel happy in this work in 1:02:12.280 --> 1:02:14.400 a way that I haven't felt before. I worked at 1:02:14.520 --> 1:02:16.560 all different types of sites in the past, with all 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:19.040 different types of funders. I don't know what vice was. 1:02:19.080 --> 1:02:21.520 I guess that's a Ponzi scheme. Or for places that 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:24.240 were owned by private equity that wasn't great. I worked 1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:25.960 for places that were owned as part of some sort 1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:27.720 of like venture back to tempt you know. 1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:28.160 At Vox. 1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:30.160 Basically whatever it was that Vox was trying to do, 1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:32.760 I was briefly a part of that. In all of 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:36.360 those instances, everybody that I worked with just wanted to 1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:39.720 do our work, and yet you were subject to the 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:41.920 I mean not even just like the whims kind of 1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:43.920 like cheapens it. I mean it was whatever it was 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:45.960 that they wanted to do was what you were going 1:02:46.000 --> 1:02:48.600 to wind up, you know, downstream that would arrive as 1:02:48.600 --> 1:02:51.040 an avalanche when they rolled the snowball from the top 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:54.080 of the mountain where they were. But the thing with 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:58.000 all of that, I never felt safe in any of 1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:00.120 those jobs, including the ones where you know, I I 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:03.040 organized one workplace advice. I worked at a very strong 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:07.120 union workplace at Deadspin. In all of those instances, the 1:03:07.400 --> 1:03:09.640 I mean, obviously it's much much better to organize your 1:03:09.640 --> 1:03:12.120 workplace than not, and I advocated anybody that wants to 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.440 do it and should try to do it. But at 1:03:14.440 --> 1:03:16.960 some point the people that you're working for don't want 1:03:16.960 --> 1:03:18.840 what you want, they don't care about what you do, 1:03:18.920 --> 1:03:20.480 and they don't read it, and they don't read it. 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:23.200 That is and which is extremely important that I think that, 1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:26.720 like in any of those there's this wish and I 1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:28.960 remember this. I was talking to Megan Greenwell, who is 1:03:29.000 --> 1:03:32.160 my editor in chief at Deadspin, has a new book 1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:34.439 about private equity called Bad Company that is very good 1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:35.640 and I recommend it's. 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:37.440 Just going to come on the show at some point. Goods. 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:42.560 But we were talking about the experience of trying to 1:03:42.880 --> 1:03:47.760 convince the private equity concern that had bought was Gizmoto 1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:51.080 Media now it is Geomedia and basically unrecognizable. 1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:53.480 Spanfeller Jim Spanfelder, bad. 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:55.600 Guy on the question. 1:03:55.720 --> 1:03:58.640 But he great had a hair though I hate to 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:01.920 say it, but it's like it's amazing. Yep, it's got 1:04:02.760 --> 1:04:07.280 a quiff. Yeah, yes, anyway, he looks great. He's been 1:04:07.280 --> 1:04:09.320 getting by and his looks for years though. But we 1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:12.920 were trying to like go to them with the information 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.720 that we had, which is like we're making more money 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:19.160 than we're spending. People read this, These people comment on everything. 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:21.680 These blogs get passed around. It's this many, you know, 1:04:21.760 --> 1:04:25.160 millions of unique readers for stuff. They just didn't give 1:04:25.200 --> 1:04:27.040 a shit. It wasn't a business they wanted to be in. 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:30.200 And the difference with Defector and I hope that this 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:32.120 is the case for you all at metal Arc too, 1:04:32.120 --> 1:04:35.960 because it is like as similar as something that is 1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:39.120 that much bigger and more popular can be that there 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:41.600 is like you're doing the work that you want to 1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:44.320 do and you're doing it without somebody's hand in your 1:04:44.320 --> 1:04:48.080 pocket or trying to fucking ratitude you around in editorial wiz, 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:52.960 and that is when you remove that interference from the equation, 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:55.720 it feels as fun as it actually is. 1:04:55.800 --> 1:04:59.680 Yeah, I think so to get back to the misery 1:04:59.720 --> 1:05:03.280 of Mike Jordan and every tech executive and blogs that 1:05:03.320 --> 1:05:06.400 aren't run in the way that I think Roth is describing, 1:05:06.960 --> 1:05:09.320 I think that's all the time at work, Like the 1:05:09.360 --> 1:05:12.600 point of getting the money is to do the job 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:15.560 that you want to do, and it is not the 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:19.120 other way around. It is not to contort and develop 1:05:19.240 --> 1:05:22.440 some sort of content dysmorphia such that you've convinced that 1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:25.880 you're sucking good, that oh, this is what beauty is. Now, 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:28.120 it's like, no, trust your own. We got into this 1:05:28.120 --> 1:05:29.800 because we have a sense of taste around what we 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:31.840 want to do and what's good and what's bad. The 1:05:31.840 --> 1:05:35.000 more that we can actually earnestly believe and act on 1:05:35.080 --> 1:05:39.200 that is the whole reason to try and to try 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.680 and engage with the market in whatever way we're allowed to. 1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:44.600 I just what pisses me off is I'm pretty sure 1:05:44.640 --> 1:05:46.880 that if you just did everything with discussing, it would 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:50.640 be insanely profitable because no one's fucking trying. So just 1:05:50.680 --> 1:05:52.919 if you just did it at the broadsheet types, I'm 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:54.560 sure that there are people who are desperate to have 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:57.439 Michael bob Ura or like tell them that the subway. 1:05:57.080 --> 1:05:59.760 Is many millions of people no accounting for tastes one. 1:05:59.840 --> 1:06:03.280 If instead of that it was someone entertaining, do you 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:05.320 think that they would get scared or do you think 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:06.920 they'd be like, Oh, I think that. 1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:09.280 There's I think that a lot of that stuff could 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:11.520 be better or it could be different. I think the 1:06:11.680 --> 1:06:15.120 more important to me is the idea that like, you 1:06:15.120 --> 1:06:18.040 should be able to pick more widely what experiences, yes, 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:20.360 and if that, you know, the Times isn't going to 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:22.640 offer you. They could, you know, but The Times isn't 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:24.080 going to offer you like, here's a version of the 1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:27.400 Daily where the guy doesn't sound medicated like or you know, 1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.040 some of these things that are just a different energy. 1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:32.560 Maybe try this out see if you like it that 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:36.480 like it doesn't. It shouldn't be just one platform offering 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:38.840 all of this stuff. But I do think that there's 1:06:39.000 --> 1:06:44.720 enough ways to enjoy things that like, you know, and 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:46.440 the difference with sports, I mean, there's like ways to 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:49.200 be a fan. Maybe you like to shout about legacy, 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:51.520 or maybe you are somebody that likes to grind tape whatever. 1:06:52.080 --> 1:06:55.320 You're all working off the same text. Everybody fundamentally understands 1:06:55.400 --> 1:06:58.320 what they're talking about. There's just a lot of different 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:00.000 ways to talk about it. It should be a healthier 1:07:00.160 --> 1:07:01.560 ecosystem that it is for that reason. 1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:04.240 So this is dating me a bit, But there's a 1:07:04.240 --> 1:07:06.520 crazy thing. They already tried this with the tech media 1:07:06.520 --> 1:07:08.320 and it worked really well. There used to be like 1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:11.920 seven different tech columnists. You kind of used to have 1:07:11.960 --> 1:07:14.800 like Dwight Silverman over at the Houston Chronicle, I think, 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:17.480 or Dallas Morning News. Forgive me, Dwight. You had like 1:07:17.560 --> 1:07:20.560 hiwath Bray over at the Globe, you had Eric Benderoff 1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:22.680 over at the Tribune. You had all of these, Like 1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:25.320 David Pogue, one of the most well known tech reporters, 1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:27.560 cut of Steve and every week, and he would sometimes 1:07:27.600 --> 1:07:29.360 just be like, yeah, I tried in u E reader. 1:07:29.440 --> 1:07:32.200 It sucked. Yeah, it's my first interaction with him actually, 1:07:32.440 --> 1:07:35.120 and it was like people didn't read David Poe. He 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:36.960 was kind of like your weird uncle and then had 1:07:36.960 --> 1:07:40.280 some stuff that happened which made you really potentially not 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:43.960 like him. But nevertheless, there was a level of entertainment 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:45.960 that came from these personal voices talking about something that 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:48.120 was very personal to people that worked in the New 1:07:48.200 --> 1:07:51.320 York fucking time in major broadsheets. I just think that 1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:54.920 they've got safer, but I also wonder if that's not 1:07:55.000 --> 1:07:58.520 me just being kind or maybe they just fucking lazy. Yeah, 1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:01.160 this is a this is an in curious as well. 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:03.800 Another ed point that has been instructive to me. This 1:08:04.000 --> 1:08:05.880 kind of like the row economy idea, and I've sort 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:10.800 of I mean, it's hard to not spiral when you 1:08:10.800 --> 1:08:13.640 think about this, But like, what are you gaining by Like, 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:16.439 you are getting some small savings by eliminating the tech 1:08:16.479 --> 1:08:19.840 columnists from Houston Chronicle from your ledger. You're not paying 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:22.640 a guy ninety thousand dollars a year or whatever it is. 1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:24.920 These guys used to get paid shit tons of money. 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:26.600 Yeah, well that which there is that. 1:08:26.720 --> 1:08:28.680 No, but they used to get paid shit tons of 1:08:28.720 --> 1:08:30.599 money and they were on there for years. 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:33.880 Yes, usually they were adding any sort of value to me. 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:36.640 This is the bit that I don't get. Is like 1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:41.559 when you drain a company and kill it and you 1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.720 get some money from it. The private equity model of 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:47.559 basically like piling a bunch of debt onto something. You 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:50.120 take from this company what is valuable, You leave them 1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:50.639 with the debt. 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:52.519 In a few years they go away, So. 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:54.920 You have all this money now that might otherwise have 1:08:54.960 --> 1:08:57.719 gone into that company. We can understand that that's bad 1:08:57.880 --> 1:08:58.920 and that it's unfair to. 1:08:58.920 --> 1:08:59.519 A lot of people. 1:08:59.800 --> 1:09:02.040 Also, what do you do with that money? This is 1:09:02.040 --> 1:09:03.799 the bit that I've always sort of wondered about. 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:05.160 Like, now it's Jim's is it? You? 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:09.439 Just like you book nothing fucking chainsmokers to play the weekend. 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:11.240 I must be clear, the answer is nothing. So is 1:09:11.240 --> 1:09:13.120 that it sits. 1:09:12.920 --> 1:09:14.760 Theres some like transparency into the. 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:18.559 Scene of super wealthy. It's nothing, It's absolutely fucking nothing, 1:09:18.680 --> 1:09:19.519 so they sits on it. 1:09:19.640 --> 1:09:21.839 So, by the way, this is where again the metaphor 1:09:21.920 --> 1:09:22.920 sort of becomes the reality. 1:09:23.000 --> 1:09:23.120 Right. 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:25.839 So sports is currently grappling with the influx of private equity. 1:09:26.120 --> 1:09:30.080 The leagues are now passing rules to allow shares of 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:32.840 teams to be bought by private equity firms, and part 1:09:32.880 --> 1:09:36.880 of the the the looming sort of storm cloud here 1:09:37.360 --> 1:09:40.160 is the idea that actually, as with content, as with 1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:44.240 grocery stores, as with any industry, there's a conflict between 1:09:44.520 --> 1:09:47.759 what that thing is meant to do and it's actual 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:53.320 standard of success and growth profit. Right. So, the whole 1:09:53.360 --> 1:09:57.000 idea of like the part of sports that is seemingly 1:09:57.080 --> 1:10:01.840 elemental is here are goal is to win. Yeah, everybody's 1:10:01.880 --> 1:10:04.160 trying to win. If when that breaks. 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:06.640 That winning isn't always profitable. 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:10.400 Right, So well, and that breakage between winning and profit, 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:15.240 that's where you are inviting a corruption that has been 1:10:15.400 --> 1:10:19.040 visited upon every other thing in American life that we've already. 1:10:18.680 --> 1:10:20.880 Out yeah, and this is I mean true as a fan, 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:24.639 but I think that anybody that participates in the culture 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:27.080 in any way, like there's you don't have to know 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:31.439 what the Pittsburgh Pirates specifically are like to understand that, like, 1:10:31.479 --> 1:10:33.200 this is a team that is owned by a billionaire, 1:10:33.320 --> 1:10:35.320 that is part of the system that is. 1:10:35.320 --> 1:10:38.000 Created and to explain for the listeners who don't listen to. 1:10:37.920 --> 1:10:40.000 Spoil Pittsburgh Pirates are a baseball. 1:10:39.720 --> 1:10:42.800 And also but specifically, the fact that they can be 1:10:42.880 --> 1:10:45.280 a bad team and make a shit ton of money. 1:10:45.320 --> 1:10:48.840 Yeah, how so, and probably welcome to jump in when 1:10:48.840 --> 1:10:51.240 I get anything wrong. A couple of things built a 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:55.040 great ballpark with some public money. It is a great 1:10:55.040 --> 1:10:57.160 place to go and hang out and drink beers. Even 1:10:57.200 --> 1:10:59.760 if the team is bad, which the team reliably has 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:03.160 been for more than a decade. The owner has a 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:05.200 lot of money, enough money to buy a baseball team, 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:07.439 which you need. This is another area where private equity 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:09.680 and then I think eventually sovereign wealth is. 1:11:09.760 --> 1:11:15.639 Going to be is also being legislated in buy shares good. Yeah, 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:18.080 and so that's like all international sport is all that. 1:11:18.120 --> 1:11:20.000 It just hasn't really happened in the United States, but 1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:20.960 it's coming. 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:22.719 I mean a team like the Cowboys are the Giants 1:11:22.760 --> 1:11:25.800 their valuation based on what the number is. It's like 1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:29.559 no person could buy it. It's too many billions of 1:11:29.600 --> 1:11:33.000 dollars like whatever, like Elon or Jeff Bezos could buy it, 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:33.920 but they're not going to. 1:11:34.080 --> 1:11:36.080 Because they must to buy the Pirates. 1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:39.360 This is I considered calling him out on that, like 1:11:39.400 --> 1:11:43.000 being like you coward by the A's like, prove it, 1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:44.240 prove how smart you are. 1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:47.960 E was like, I'm a fan of the Eagles and. 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:50.800 The Steelers, and I was just like a classic, Like 1:11:50.840 --> 1:11:53.400 it's like somehow like you took a Hillary Clinton line 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:55.120 and you made it soundly. 1:11:55.840 --> 1:11:58.320 They called me the bus of tech anyway. 1:11:58.439 --> 1:12:01.920 So here's how the Pirates make it work. Extremely it 1:12:02.000 --> 1:12:06.679 is not expensive to run a major league baseball team 1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:10.320 if you don't pay anybody, but you can papers get 1:12:10.400 --> 1:12:13.200 there is no salary floor. So the product that you 1:12:13.240 --> 1:12:14.880 put out there basically needs to be at least to 1:12:14.920 --> 1:12:17.880 be minimally competitive, like you can't have people like coming 1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:20.599 to your house and burning it down. But minimally competitive 1:12:20.600 --> 1:12:22.360 for the Pirates means losing one hundred out of one 1:12:22.400 --> 1:12:25.160 hundred and sixty two games basically every year. The other 1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:26.680 way that you make money off of it, though, is 1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:28.479 like there's TV deals that money. 1:12:28.280 --> 1:12:28.960 Is getting paid. 1:12:29.160 --> 1:12:33.360 There's like you know, parking, there's concessions, There's a million 1:12:33.360 --> 1:12:35.200 different ways to make a little bit of money at 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:37.200 a time. And then the big thing that makes it 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:41.760 work is that because this structure that baseball has a 1:12:42.200 --> 1:12:45.240 revenue sharing system, so that basically this is money coming 1:12:45.280 --> 1:12:48.639 from the biggest It is socialism for rich. 1:12:48.479 --> 1:12:51.599 Guys, exclusively for rich guys, because it is. 1:12:52.200 --> 1:12:54.400 It is only within that system. So a team like 1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:56.800 the Yankees that makes all this money and plays in 1:12:56.800 --> 1:12:58.680 a big market has this huge TV deal that the 1:12:58.720 --> 1:13:01.280 Pirates could never get us Pittsburgh is so much smaller 1:13:01.280 --> 1:13:04.160 than New York. They pay money into a system that 1:13:04.240 --> 1:13:07.320 it is then reallocated to the Pirates. The idea being 1:13:07.680 --> 1:13:10.160 that this would create some sort of parody because that 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:14.080 money is supposed to be used on either major league 1:13:14.120 --> 1:13:17.080 payroll or player development, or there's ways that you can 1:13:17.200 --> 1:13:20.160 use it too that are more responsible than others, like 1:13:20.680 --> 1:13:22.920 using it to pay a big league ball player is good. 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:28.439 Using it to develop a player development program that teaches 1:13:28.680 --> 1:13:31.120 a raw high school kid that you drafted how to 1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:32.639 throw a pitch that he doesn't know how to throw 1:13:33.040 --> 1:13:35.839 that is also extremely cost effective and works. 1:13:36.080 --> 1:13:38.320 Good teams do both. The Dodgers do both. You don't 1:13:38.360 --> 1:13:39.760 have to do neither. 1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:41.719 You don't have to do anything, And yes you don't, 1:13:41.800 --> 1:13:43.439 because you can just sit there and the money comes in. 1:13:43.520 --> 1:13:45.920 Right, And I think about it also not merely because 1:13:45.920 --> 1:13:48.800 I think there's yes, there's a philosophical approach that is 1:13:48.880 --> 1:13:51.479 overarching here. There's also just like the edge cases of 1:13:51.560 --> 1:13:54.240 like you have a choice. Yeah, you can resign the 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:58.080 player that will make your fans not merely happy, but 1:13:58.360 --> 1:14:02.000 feel on some level fulfilled as part of the allegedly 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:05.120 civic trust here right right, you got a star player 1:14:05.120 --> 1:14:07.280 that's about to ask for more money, and everybody wants 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:08.960 to keep them, and in fact it makes sense for 1:14:09.000 --> 1:14:11.000 you to keep them because your goal here is to 1:14:11.040 --> 1:14:14.280 win a title. Instead, what you will do is let 1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:17.440 him go because he is now too rich for your blood. 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:19.479 And you don't need business. 1:14:19.560 --> 1:14:21.920 You don't need him to make the margins exactly. Yes, 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:24.240 that in fact you could still make without them. That's 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:26.760 exactly the point. The margin thing is to me, like 1:14:26.880 --> 1:14:28.920 it's and this is the sort of short term thinking 1:14:28.920 --> 1:14:29.559 that you see. 1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:31.120 Attack a lot, which is why I brought it up. 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:32.840 Now, if you think of the business that you have 1:14:32.960 --> 1:14:34.960 as something that you're gonna own for the rest of 1:14:35.000 --> 1:14:36.479 your life and then you're gonna leave to your kids, 1:14:36.600 --> 1:14:38.560 now that's a little bit perverse. I don't think you 1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:40.439 should necessarily be able to do that, But if you're 1:14:40.439 --> 1:14:43.240 thinking of the business that way, the free agent that 1:14:43.280 --> 1:14:46.240 you resign is essential to the survival of your business 1:14:46.240 --> 1:14:49.240 because it shows people that are fans now that you 1:14:49.320 --> 1:14:50.960 care about them and you care about the team in 1:14:51.000 --> 1:14:53.280 the future. And when those people bring their kids to 1:14:53.320 --> 1:14:55.560 the games, they're gonna be watching that player at the 1:14:55.600 --> 1:14:58.640 end of his career. They're gonna So that idea of 1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:00.800 like any of this stuff being built to last in 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:03.879 any meaningful way, I think is gone. 1:15:03.960 --> 1:15:05.880 And I think that and it's everywhere. The reason I 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:08.720 wanted you to go through that is I think listeners 1:15:09.280 --> 1:15:12.240 really understand the basics of like how you have tech 1:15:12.240 --> 1:15:14.040 companies that will do as little as possible to keep 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:16.040 the service running to make the most amount of money. 1:15:16.680 --> 1:15:19.160 I think it's important for people to know this is everywhere. 1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:22.640 The rot economy is everywhere. It's insane. How endemic it 1:15:22.720 --> 1:15:24.400 is the baseball though, you could just run a shit 1:15:24.520 --> 1:15:25.160 team forever. 1:15:25.360 --> 1:15:25.599 Yep. 1:15:26.080 --> 1:15:28.479 Well look at Google. Not to make it the whole 1:15:28.479 --> 1:15:31.799 thing about tech, but it's like, it is very fucking 1:15:31.840 --> 1:15:34.840 depressing seeing how these people work. But I think that 1:15:34.880 --> 1:15:37.479 one thing will work in tech that doesn't work as 1:15:37.520 --> 1:15:40.280 often in sports but does a bit is attacking the owners. 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:40.719 Yep. 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:43.599 Because Dick Mondfort from the Rockies, who I email with, 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:45.280 he he has stopped responding to me. 1:15:45.840 --> 1:15:49.320 Oh really, I think it was people email with dick 1:15:49.400 --> 1:15:51.519 Man for like, if you email him, he'll email you back. Yeah. 1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:54.120 He didn't email me back about JoJo's bizarre adventure, which 1:15:54.160 --> 1:15:55.160 I think was what broke Hi. 1:15:55.200 --> 1:15:57.479 Maybe a bridge too far. Okay, well he might not 1:15:57.520 --> 1:15:58.000 be ready the. 1:15:57.960 --> 1:16:01.960 Delightful show, but you can't really humiliate someone like that. 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.200 But the pressure on onners has changed things in the past, 1:16:04.240 --> 1:16:06.599 like they don't want to be despised by an entire town. 1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:10.120 I don't think enough people know who Sundapaeshio Salonment is, 1:16:10.800 --> 1:16:13.759 and I think the more people who learn and mock 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:16.439 them because they are so rich, they don't have anything 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:18.599 other than the names, and unlike sports teams, they don't 1:16:18.600 --> 1:16:19.439 have anything cool. 1:16:19.600 --> 1:16:22.920 So I think one difference with sports than tech is, 1:16:23.000 --> 1:16:28.840 in fact the broad cultural popularity inherited over generations, such 1:16:28.920 --> 1:16:31.800 that you are invested in this team in a way 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:35.200 that you could never really be invested in the same 1:16:35.200 --> 1:16:37.160 way when it comes to even the device you use 1:16:37.200 --> 1:16:37.840 all of the time. 1:16:37.960 --> 1:16:38.160 Yeah. 1:16:38.479 --> 1:16:41.439 So I've talked to owners about this, NBA owners who 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:46.720 are like, yeah, my day job as multi billionaire is 1:16:46.800 --> 1:16:50.640 like to obsess over the price of like polypropylene or 1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:55.200 some other you know, material that I monetize. None, none 1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:58.680 of that is as resonant. Is as much of a 1:16:58.760 --> 1:17:01.479 pain point in my life as the guy on the 1:17:01.520 --> 1:17:04.120 street who is actively booing me when he sees me. 1:17:04.240 --> 1:17:06.840 But imagine if they fucking like them, yeah, like a 1:17:06.880 --> 1:17:09.920 beloved owner, Like if the product was really good. People 1:17:10.000 --> 1:17:11.200 used to fucking love Google. 1:17:11.280 --> 1:17:13.360 So the Mets have a great example of this, and 1:17:13.400 --> 1:17:17.439 that they are owned by what you can only call 1:17:17.479 --> 1:17:21.120 a prolific financial criminal, Steve Cohen. Like it's just a 1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:23.880 guy that was banned by the SEC from trading because 1:17:23.880 --> 1:17:26.679 of all the insider trading that he Oh my god, yeah, 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:29.360 I know, and guy kind of friends, I know, right, 1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:30.960 they're mad at him, they're jealous. 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:34.040 I would love I would love FRANCESSA on this topic, gahly, 1:17:34.080 --> 1:17:36.320 who is that going over his art collection? Meal, it's 1:17:36.360 --> 1:17:38.880 a lot of Modigliani's, you know, and I don't like him, 1:17:39.280 --> 1:17:44.800 you know too skinny. Uh but the we Lovegliani jokes here? 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:46.360 Also who is that? 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:48.880 He is a sculptor? Okay, and they are very skinny, 1:17:49.000 --> 1:17:54.680 but the uh Brakouzi guy but uh so. 1:17:55.360 --> 1:17:57.720 Cohen though, like bought the Mets as the team that 1:17:57.760 --> 1:17:59.719 he was obsessed with as a fan as a kid, 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:02.240 and basically this is what he's gonna do with the 1:18:02.280 --> 1:18:04.160 rest of his life. He went and he took a 1:18:04.160 --> 1:18:07.400 team that was owned by a fail family. 1:18:07.320 --> 1:18:08.280 Not just fail sends. 1:18:08.280 --> 1:18:11.800 There's a whole multi generational thing, and did the stuff 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:13.719 that I was talking about in terms of like basically 1:18:14.280 --> 1:18:18.679 investing in the little things that make an organization work better. 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:21.439 In this case, it's people that help your pitchers pitch better, 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:24.599 coaches that actually help in an individual way, and then 1:18:24.640 --> 1:18:28.840 also executives, executives that like understand that these are people 1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:31.439 and that they need to be sort of like treated 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:34.240 as such. This is like the story such as it's 1:18:34.280 --> 1:18:36.719 told about how the Mets managed to outbid the Yankees 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:38.479 for wan Soto. Part of it was that like the 1:18:38.560 --> 1:18:40.679 Yankees were dicks to him, they were dicks to his family. 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:42.479 And Wansto is an extremely good player. 1:18:43.600 --> 1:18:44.760 You have not been you know, he's been a little 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:46.960 bit of a disaployment. But he was paid the biggest 1:18:47.000 --> 1:18:48.320 contract in the history of sports. 1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:49.200 Yes, and so. 1:18:49.280 --> 1:18:51.040 It's like you have to pay the money, but then 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:54.640 also if you want to win that person over the 1:18:54.680 --> 1:18:58.320 generational talent that you give that amount of money. You 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:00.200 and the Mets case, it was basically like they have 1:19:00.200 --> 1:19:02.479 a really nice family room for the kids with the 1:19:02.520 --> 1:19:04.000 players at the stadium. 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:05.839 Which is not something that he did ownership. 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:08.040 Yeah, and so Steve Cohen, who is a guy that 1:19:08.200 --> 1:19:12.120 is like the definition of a class enemy of mine. 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:14.320 Everything that I want this country to be. He is 1:19:14.479 --> 1:19:17.160 in the fucking way of it being that. And yet 1:19:17.360 --> 1:19:17.920 he does own my. 1:19:17.920 --> 1:19:19.800 Favorite baseball team, and he has done a pretty good 1:19:19.880 --> 1:19:23.479 job hiring pitching coaches. And at some point you like. 1:19:23.600 --> 1:19:25.920 This is all true. You know, it's all true, it's real. 1:19:26.080 --> 1:19:27.960 You can soften your opinion on the guy for that reason. 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:30.679 Absolutely. And Steve Cohen authentically is also a guy who 1:19:30.800 --> 1:19:33.639 like listens to sports talk radio. Yeah, and he is 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:35.519 not a fake fan, is a real fan as. 1:19:35.479 --> 1:19:38.320 Well, and not even in like always the most flattering ways, 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:40.600 like he sometimes will get on Twitter and like recommend 1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:43.360 some like lower tier Mets prospect guy and it's like 1:19:43.720 --> 1:19:46.080 talk to your own fucking prospect guys, dude, Like they 1:19:46.200 --> 1:19:48.080 definitely know more than this guy does. 1:19:48.160 --> 1:19:50.640 So I hate to wrap it up that. I'm just 1:19:50.800 --> 1:19:53.479 gonna say, Steve Cohen, if you're listening, come on better 1:19:53.520 --> 1:19:55.080 off line, let's talk about the Matt. 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:56.720 Can I say one more thing about Steve Cohen? 1:19:56.840 --> 1:19:57.360 Absolutely? 1:19:57.360 --> 1:19:58.960 So, this is why I think he is game and 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:01.000 why I think he will be on on this. Do 1:20:01.040 --> 1:20:03.000 you know about Steve Cohen? This is more for public 1:20:03.000 --> 1:20:05.799 because I know do you know about his guy Fiertti fixation? 1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:08.799 Who is that guy Fierti Diner's drives? 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:11.120 Sorry, I've just never heard it said like that. 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:13.519 That's how he says, oh, guy Fieri. I'll say it 1:20:13.560 --> 1:20:17.480 the way that it's television. 1:20:18.040 --> 1:20:21.800 Yeah, he's yes, I think that's fair for Europeans. Five 1:20:21.840 --> 1:20:26.000 thousand calorie males, Yes, and sauce. He looks like smash mouth. 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:28.840 Yeah, he's a crazy he looks like everybody from smash 1:20:28.880 --> 1:20:33.320 Mouth made into one smashed into one. It is. In 1:20:33.360 --> 1:20:36.040 factly no one has resembled the term smash mouth more 1:20:36.120 --> 1:20:40.320 than Guy. But so Diners, drivings, and dives really is 1:20:40.360 --> 1:20:43.120 good though, yeah, never eaten a good guy anyway, But 1:20:43.200 --> 1:20:45.160 so the show is him driving around the country going 1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:47.000 to someplace eating the hot dog and be like, that's 1:20:47.000 --> 1:20:49.799 that's crazy, brother, that's a crazy hot dog. Steve Cohen, 1:20:50.520 --> 1:20:53.040 super fan of the show, appears in a couple of 1:20:53.040 --> 1:20:56.080 episodes as a diner and kind of like a weird 1:20:56.200 --> 1:20:59.599 I saw one just like, yeah, there's one in Los 1:20:59.640 --> 1:21:02.240 Angeles of him just eating the Luganiga sausage and he's 1:21:02.280 --> 1:21:04.320 not like a handsome man. He's just like a guy. 1:21:04.680 --> 1:21:06.519 But he's at some place. He doesn't have any lines. 1:21:06.800 --> 1:21:10.200 But then he did apparently pay Guy Fieri one hundred 1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:12.360 thousand dollars to hang out with him for a day 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:15.880 and go to all of his favorite restaurants, like the 1:21:15.920 --> 1:21:17.200 hot dog places. 1:21:16.880 --> 1:21:21.800 In Connecticut, And that's exactly see to me, that is 1:21:21.840 --> 1:21:24.320 actually like, that's an inkling of that person might do 1:21:24.360 --> 1:21:26.240 a good job bending a baseball team. There's a follow 1:21:26.320 --> 1:21:28.280 up episode that maybe I need to do on my 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:31.120 show where I find out who's actually good at being rich? 1:21:31.320 --> 1:21:34.759 Yeah, what I would please have me on it sounds amazing. 1:21:34.800 --> 1:21:37.120 That actually sounds like it incredible Always guys that are 1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:41.160 good at being owners. Honestly, it's just not being unhappy 1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:43.799 about it, right, And a through line that you established 1:21:44.000 --> 1:21:44.680 you woudn't. 1:21:44.360 --> 1:21:46.840 Tell jim Irsay, you wouldn't tell anyone to be more 1:21:46.880 --> 1:21:49.720 like jim Irsay rip. And yet like jim Irsay, spent 1:21:49.720 --> 1:21:52.360 the last years of his life with like a touring 1:21:52.439 --> 1:21:56.400 band of notable blues musicians, traveling venues across the country 1:21:56.439 --> 1:21:59.120 and doing the worst versions of Neil Young's songs you've 1:21:59.160 --> 1:22:00.200 ever heard, and he. 1:22:00.200 --> 1:22:02.280 Would sing it rocks. 1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:05.880 It's great. I have noticed. I wish more regret to 1:22:05.920 --> 1:22:08.000 confirm it rocks. Yeah. 1:22:08.120 --> 1:22:10.880 So we wrap up here, and I will say another 1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:13.080 thing about all of this is the too oneful minium 1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:15.680 here with actually Danealds was like we all fucking love 1:22:15.680 --> 1:22:17.439 our jobs and were truly, like deeply into them. My 1:22:17.479 --> 1:22:19.880 talk to Daniel about random fucking production stuff is it 1:22:19.960 --> 1:22:21.439 joy to do? And I think that that is actually 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:23.360 the real solution to a lot of these problems is 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:26.120 give people who actually give a fuck money and let 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:29.000 them do cool shit. David, where can people find you? 1:22:29.240 --> 1:22:29.599 Uh? 1:22:29.720 --> 1:22:31.920 I mean, now the pressure's on because we already know 1:22:31.960 --> 1:22:34.160 that Ed is very critical of my promos. Defector dot 1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:36.559 com is the website. It is a prescription site, but 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:38.320 you can read a few articles for free and decide 1:22:38.320 --> 1:22:41.680 if you like it. The podcast they do there is 1:22:41.680 --> 1:22:44.400 the Distraction. The podcasts they do about Hallmark movies is 1:22:44.479 --> 1:22:45.400 It's Christmas Down. 1:22:45.960 --> 1:22:48.080 Yeah, And if you like. 1:22:48.040 --> 1:22:49.879 Pablo and Ed, you can hear them on the Distraction. 1:22:50.040 --> 1:22:51.439 Neither one of these guys has been on the Hallmark 1:22:51.439 --> 1:22:53.919 podcast yet. But it's a long it's a long process. 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:57.320 It's far, yes, indeed, and then I don't know the 1:22:57.360 --> 1:22:58.840 blue sky I guess David. 1:22:58.640 --> 1:23:02.320 J Rothblo Pablo Tory finds out as the show. It 1:23:02.400 --> 1:23:05.360 is on YouTube and it's a podcast, and I have 1:23:05.400 --> 1:23:10.000 a substack. It's at www dot Pablo dot show. And 1:23:10.240 --> 1:23:14.800 I aspire to uh talk about some Hallmark movies with 1:23:14.880 --> 1:23:17.360 a guy who's only killed one of two turtles that he's. 1:23:17.280 --> 1:23:21.639 So far you know, God killed that. But and I'm 1:23:21.640 --> 1:23:26.000 at ZiT Tron. You can find me on a podcast. Yeah, 1:23:26.160 --> 1:23:26.960 God killed that. 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:27.839 My turtle. 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:33.559 It's like, well godfriended me. Anyway, I'm at Zitron. You've 1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:35.880 been listening to the podcast Better Offline. We talk about 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:39.679 technology or some such business. Wonderful producer of course, Daniel 1:23:39.720 --> 1:23:44.080 Goodman here in the beautiful New York City, Nevada. Please 1:23:44.360 --> 1:23:47.240 please subscribe to my newsletters. Well where's your head? What's 1:23:47.280 --> 1:23:49.439 great is this is gonna end. You're gonna hit exactly 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:51.920 the same ship again, and you're gonna email me and 1:23:51.920 --> 1:23:53.040 say re record it. 1:23:53.240 --> 1:24:04.240 No, don't do it. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. 1:24:04.400 --> 1:24:06.800 The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:09.519 is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music 1:24:09.560 --> 1:24:13.200 and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:17.680 T O S O W s ki dot com. You 1:24:17.680 --> 1:24:20.200 can email me at easy at better offline dot com 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:22.599 or visit better offline dot com to find more podcast 1:24:22.640 --> 1:24:25.960 links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend 1:24:26.000 --> 1:24:27.960 you go to chat dot Where's youreaed dot at to 1:24:28.040 --> 1:24:30.400 visit the discord, and go to our slash. 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:31.960 Better Offline to check out our reddit. 1:24:32.720 --> 1:24:34.080 Thank you so much for listening. 1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.600 Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For 1:24:37.720 --> 1:24:38.880 more from cool Zone Media. 1:24:39.240 --> 1:24:42.479 Visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us. 1:24:42.360 --> 1:24:45.360 Out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1:24:45.400 --> 1:25:03.040 get your podcasts. The whole Spanish