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Speaker 1: A media.

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Speaker 2: Every morning I wake up to one hundred punishments, each

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Speaker 2: worse than the last. Also that I can bring you

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Speaker 2: the greatest podcast of all time. I am at Zeitron

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Speaker 2: and this is Better Offline. Now that we've got that

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Speaker 2: out of the way, We've got many new items in

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Speaker 2: the Better Offline merchantore go and buy them. There's a

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Speaker 2: zip hoodie, which I fucking love, and a word mark

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Speaker 2: shirt and a T shirt, and there's a hat it's lovely.

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Speaker 2: You can also get infant clothings and I think like

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Speaker 2: if you put that on a baby, though, they will

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Speaker 2: take the baby from you anyway. So today I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by the incredible Pablo Toure of Paplatory Finds Out and

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Speaker 2: David Roth of defecta co owner of Defector and a turtle.

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Speaker 1: I believe, Yes I do. I am the co owner

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Speaker 1: of a turtle.

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Speaker 2: What's the turtle's name.

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Speaker 3: Turtle's name is Marvin, Marvin uh and he is what

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Speaker 3: a pair of turtles? But Marvin is the surviving turtle. Oh,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: They had he had.

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Speaker 3: The other guy had a good long life. George had

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Speaker 3: a good long life, okay, And something you don't learn

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Speaker 3: when a man sells you a turtle out of a

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Speaker 3: bucket of dry wall on Canal Street is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you got a Giinatown turtle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a Chinatown turtle on an impulse twenty

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Speaker 3: four years ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, so you've had them a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they live.

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Speaker 3: Forever, like the people that the vets that treat them

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Speaker 3: are also the vets that treat birds. And the lady

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Speaker 3: that when I took Marvin to the vet because he'd

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Speaker 3: been eating parts of the tank, I was told this

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Speaker 3: was normal, that they happen. Whatever is around goes in

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Speaker 3: and then it stays there until such time as he

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Speaker 3: starts acting alarmingly enough that you take him to the vet.

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Speaker 3: She also treats birds, and she was like, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is a This is a thing with your pets that

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Speaker 3: are basically dinosaurs. Is that if left to their own devices,

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Speaker 3: they will live for as long as their owners. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: which is cool to think about for the rest of

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Speaker 3: my life.

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Speaker 1: I got this little pet.

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Speaker 2: I mean he.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't like me, Like, that's pretty they do they show affection? No,

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Speaker 3: I mean no, like it would be hard to tell.

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Speaker 3: Like if I pick him up and like, you know,

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Speaker 3: give him some pets on his sh.

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Speaker 1: You appreciate your Bernie Sanders. I do communicate with him

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Speaker 1: in a series of accents. Yeah. He responds well to Bernie.

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Speaker 3: Once again asking that you eat this piece of ridicuo

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Speaker 3: like your tank. Yeah, he well, they I guess that

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Speaker 3: is how he responds to it is by eating the

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Speaker 3: piece of ridicio that I've lowered into his tank. He

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Speaker 3: loves chickeries. What's chickery any kind of chickeries? You know

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Speaker 3: your cabbages, Castel Franco. I know Pablem's not talking about this.

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Speaker 1: I'm mostly here to throw Bernie Xander's cues and cabbage reference. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you and forth with Rod.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're talking about today. So both of

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Speaker 2: you guys are some of the most gifted sports broadcasters

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Speaker 2: and writers I've ever met. Not blowing smoke, I don't give,

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Speaker 2: but I think both of you have also done something

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Speaker 2: really incredible with like the format in the sense that

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Speaker 2: it's not like it's about sports insomuch as sports is

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Speaker 2: part of the world and culture itself. Even in Pablo,

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Speaker 2: you're like Jordan Hudson thing and the Bill Belichick stuff

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Speaker 2: that was fascinating to me. Despite honestly wanting to know

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Speaker 2: less about Bill Belichick, who is the former and the

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Speaker 2: many non sports I.

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Speaker 1: Love the disclosures here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the many non sports listeners say a sports episode,

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Speaker 2: how dare you? Oh my god, do you want to

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Speaker 2: hear me fucking talk about Kevin Russ again? Or do

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Speaker 2: it in like one day? I'll probably do it on

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Speaker 2: this podcast.

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Speaker 1: You're already doing I'm.

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Speaker 2: Already doing it though, but it's fascinating because it's.

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Speaker 3: The underline that I could give you ninety minutes on

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Speaker 3: the turtle. We already know that that's true, so that

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Speaker 3: threat will hang over the rest of this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm getting emails asking about more fucking telltle stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't have turtles.

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Speaker 2: Wait?

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Speaker 1: I didn't even ask, have you?

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Speaker 2: So talking of it ended poorly, small, old wretched things.

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Speaker 2: Bill Belichick is the coach now of unc University of

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Speaker 2: North Carolina football coach, and he was the coach of

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Speaker 2: the New England Patriots. And he has a go friend

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Speaker 2: who is twenty four years old. So it's not really

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Speaker 2: about the sports. It's about that there's just this random

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Speaker 2: woman who has ingratiated herself into dunkin Donuts commercials and

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Speaker 2: the like, and you kind of broke that story open

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Speaker 2: in a very interesting way where it wasn't like just

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Speaker 2: you on your own talking. You had to forget who

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Speaker 2: else you.

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Speaker 1: Had on Katie l and Michael cruz Kan as my accomplices. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in this journalistic act of alleged malpractice.

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Speaker 2: Oh and now practice. According to Bill Simmons, who will explain.

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Speaker 1: The bills, the bills in general aren't aren't necessarily cottoning.

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Speaker 1: Most of your upper New England bills have had some

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Speaker 1: issues with.

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Speaker 2: It, your William problems. Yeah, And it's it's funny because

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Speaker 2: the way you tell that story is not that you

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Speaker 2: get a lot of people who do they talking to

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Speaker 2: the camera stuff, But it feels that you kind of

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Speaker 2: regale people with the tails and the journalism while also

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Speaker 2: doing quite firm, well researched stuff as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was inspired by one of the things that

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Speaker 1: has baffled me the most on YouTube, which is the

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Speaker 1: unboxing video. Because the Unboxing video. Once I learned that

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Speaker 1: there's this kid, I assume your audience is very familiar

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Speaker 1: with Ryan's toys.

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Speaker 2: I'm not so.

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Speaker 3: I weirdly am familiar with Ryan's toys and I don't

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Speaker 3: I don't have children, and my niece and nephew do

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Speaker 3: not watch that ship and yet.

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Speaker 2: My child does not watch YouTube ever.

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Speaker 1: But this is just it's a kid, and in the channel,

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Speaker 1: I believe, I believe we've watched Ryan, the eponymous Ryan

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Speaker 1: Truly age in real time, thirty one years old, and

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Speaker 1: he's been making like NBA Max contract money. Beyond that,

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Speaker 1: well beyond that. Now I'm in the second and he

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Speaker 1: just yes, but but, but but toys. Ryan's toys. His

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Speaker 1: parents bring him toys that he then opens up and

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Speaker 1: plays with, and the audience is in the tens of millions.

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Speaker 1: He is an market type on YouTube. He's a he's

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Speaker 1: a genre on too himself that has inspired so many imitators,

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Speaker 1: all of which spoke something fascinating because you're watching again

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Speaker 1: take the if you can put the pedophilia aside for okay,

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Speaker 1: and you're just watching a kid open toys. The questions

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Speaker 1: like that. That's not legally speaking, Roth, You know what

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Speaker 1: I do and know what I have to do legally speaking.

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Speaker 1: I had a talk with you before we walked up.

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Speaker 1: You said you wouldn't call me out on my on

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Speaker 1: my disclosure.

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Speaker 3: I just think you were serious. I thought you were bluffing.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was a power thing.

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Speaker 1: Listen, circum if you just take this as a why

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Speaker 1: is this so popular? Question? Right, there is something fascinating

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Speaker 1: about it. You are watching, you are vicariously living through

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Speaker 1: someone else authentically be surprised and delighted by something inside

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Speaker 1: of a box. And this format has been imitated, copied,

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Speaker 1: spread throughout YouTube. And so the whole idea of what

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Speaker 1: if I could authentically surprise and delight a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: not with a I don't even know if a power

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Speaker 1: ranger is is a reference.

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Speaker 2: But something you found right?

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Speaker 1: But but journalism actually right? What if the toy is

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Speaker 1: journalism that they can then open up and play with

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Speaker 1: and poke at and ask me questions about what if

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Speaker 1: I did that? What if I could just sort of

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Speaker 1: channel the thing that the sun god, that is the algorithm,

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Speaker 1: seems to enjoy about the unboxing video? What if I

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Speaker 1: could do that for journalism?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: And so I did exhaustive, insanely exhaustive reporting into the

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Speaker 1: Bill Balichick Jordan Hudson question, which is also a story

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Speaker 1: about the highest paid employee in the state North Carolina

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Speaker 1: public employee, who is also the archetype of a certain

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Speaker 1: privacy discretion. Do your jobness sun Zoo cosplay now being

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Speaker 1: sort of the opposite inverted by this woman who is

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Speaker 1: now running his life beyond just the age gap stuff.

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Speaker 1: What if I could do that for Katie Nolan, Michael

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Speaker 1: cruz Gane and surprise and delight them with what I

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Speaker 1: had investigated, right, And so that's kind of my solution

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Speaker 1: to trying to make YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Content and also kind of like a kind of radio

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Speaker 2: show host as well. It's you've got like quite an

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Speaker 2: interesting setup as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we try to do. Look, the show is

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Speaker 1: audio first, insofar as when I edit this show, I

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Speaker 1: am only.

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Speaker 2: Listening to you're editing it on your own.

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Speaker 1: We have a staff of a half dozen few people

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Speaker 1: who are on the editorial side.

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Speaker 2: But me, I always I imagine you're right. Just I

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Speaker 2: was gonna say if you did that earlier on that

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Speaker 2: sounds not connecting.

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Speaker 1: Even Sobird just like five different credits to the name iPhones,

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Speaker 1: shocking everything on iPhones. I am doing a past an

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Speaker 1: editorial pass which I am making cuts and all that

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Speaker 1: stuff restructuring. But I'm only listening because I want someone

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Speaker 1: who's only listening to not have the question of like,

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Speaker 1: and it feels like they thought about a second, right,

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Speaker 1: But also we are a three camera setup in our

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Speaker 1: studio such that we are YouTube show, so that nobody

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Speaker 1: watching on YouTube things they thought about a second, and

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Speaker 1: so we are kind of torturing ourselves to be a

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Speaker 1: fully fledged product. And already you can sense the sort

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Speaker 1: of like the discomfort viscally of being a journalist who

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Speaker 1: is making a product that I've analogized to a YouTube

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Speaker 1: channel that is definitely not for pedophiles. We've established that

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Speaker 1: you not say this more clearly, but but trying to

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Speaker 1: be where people are with the knowledge that they probably

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Speaker 1: won't switch platforms, They'll probably just gonna live wherever we

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Speaker 1: find them, and we just gotta we just got to

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Speaker 1: give them, hopefully something that they can spend some time.

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Speaker 2: And you're fully independent or are you backed by some

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Speaker 2: like the is.

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Speaker 1: Dan Lebttard a corporate monolith?

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Speaker 3: I don't know who that is. I love that technically

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Speaker 3: is a private equity entity.

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Speaker 2: That's how you say that.

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Speaker 1: Do you know about the metals actually really interesting?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't. But also I thought he was about

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Speaker 2: todd Well like like the French.

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Speaker 1: Like the Boston the French bread.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the French Boston.

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Speaker 1: Dan Dan Dan la Bastard is my corporate partner.

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Speaker 2: That's a real disappointment.

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Speaker 1: A Cuban guy with a French name who looks white.

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Speaker 1: All of this is very in a country only.

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Speaker 2: But beautiful.

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Speaker 3: You should like, I would love problem. Maybe too modest

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Speaker 3: to do it. Mental ark is an interesting experiment. You

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Speaker 3: should talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically, Dan Lebutard left ESPN took his RSS

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Speaker 1: feed with him, which is the key to starting a

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Speaker 1: new business and microwaving of business is have your auto faith,

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Speaker 1: have your feed right. And so what he did was

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Speaker 1: he partnered with John Skipper, whos before president of ESPN,

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Speaker 1: and they did not want to hire any ad salespeople,

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Speaker 1: and so their licensing partner wound up being draft Kings

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Speaker 1: and DraftKings you may know from every ad you've ever

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Speaker 1: seen during a sporting event and otherwise. The point being

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Speaker 1: that Dan, who wanted freedom, wanted editorial non interference whenever possible,

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Speaker 1: found an arrangement in which, yes, the company got to

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Speaker 1: choose its own editorial docket got backed by this company

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Speaker 1: in which, by the way, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: pay attention to sports or better, I have not, but

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Speaker 1: they have the money now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of getting in bed with one devil, I.

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Speaker 1: Guess, and and for legal reasons as well, I will

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Speaker 1: not comment. Yeah yeah, yeah, but but but the short

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Speaker 1: answer to where I am is that they funded Metal Lark,

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Speaker 1: decided we want to start a new show from scratch.

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Speaker 1: We want to trust this guy that we are friends

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Speaker 1: with and and know and hopefully trusted, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: got to create a show from scratch in now the

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Speaker 1: vision that you have seen or heard. But where I

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Speaker 1: am now, to speed run through my trajectory briefly, is

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Speaker 1: that uh, Parbatory finds out is no longer in the

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Speaker 1: licensing deal with DraftKings. We are now independent with Metal

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Speaker 1: Lark as our co owner, but looking for a partner. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And so if you're listening out there and you have

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Speaker 1: a maybe open a yeah, they're definitely very good. They're good.

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Speaker 4: They got now but we we we we.

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Speaker 1: Just met with Palenteer. That's great. They really understand your audience.

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Speaker 1: You should know the social.

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Speaker 2: Everything about your audience.

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Speaker 1: The w WE is not presenting us actually, and Dreill,

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Speaker 1: what is interesting to me about this as somebody who

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Speaker 1: also works in independent media. We'll talk about in a moment,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 3: The way that you spent the money that you got

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Speaker 3: from the corporate partner was like, obviously, the show looks good,

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Speaker 3: it looks pro it sounds good, like there are talented

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Speaker 3: people working on it. I've friends Jeb Lund did it

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Speaker 3: was a guy that I do another podcast with Hallmark Movies,

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Speaker 3: not out sports or yes, but like a subscribe yeah,

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Speaker 3: but did a feature with you guys, and was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not I wouldn't say I was jealous exactly, but

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Speaker 3: I was very impressed with the report repertorial apparatus behind

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Speaker 3: all of this, and it's like it is it seemed

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Speaker 3: more like working with sixty minutes than it would be

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Speaker 3: like doing a story for Defector.

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Speaker 2: You're so much better at matching my show.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it seemed.

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Speaker 3: But what I mean by this was that basically, like

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Speaker 3: there were producers, there are people that were like, I'll

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Speaker 3: file that foya for you.

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Speaker 1: I will do Like we are trying to be an

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Speaker 1: actual news magazine, an era in which news magazines are

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Speaker 1: either compromised in various ways or does dead. Now we're

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Speaker 1: just kind of giving up on doing that, right So, Jeb,

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Speaker 1: by the way, who I cannot truss is enough co

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Speaker 1: host pod with David Roths about Hallmarks.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you can joke about this, but every single during CES,

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Speaker 2: we did like thirteen and a half hours of audio,

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Speaker 2: you know, not even an exaggeration, every single episode, and

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Speaker 2: I did three thirty minute breaks so sections even at

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Speaker 2: the end it was like David will podcast you, and

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Speaker 2: every time like joyously, Yeah, okay, so this is great.

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Speaker 3: I don't like promoting my shit, and it also felt

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Speaker 3: weird because I was not holding myself out as an expert,

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Speaker 3: but the idea of you know, I'm going off like

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Speaker 3: you shouldn't be AI in vacuum cleaners.

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Speaker 1: Bitch, you know, and just trying to do say that,

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Speaker 1: trying to be big energy on it, and then at

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Speaker 1: the end feeling like and if you like that, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna love me, Like breaking down the worst performances of

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Speaker 1: Candice Cameron's career every two months.

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Speaker 2: A guy who kind of looks like Chad Michael Murray

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Speaker 2: or Chat Michael Murray.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes you do get Chad Michael Murray. But yes it

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Speaker 3: is like a uh, we're off, we're firefield.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I don't, but but what you said just to

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Speaker 1: catch you ple up was we had Jeb blood And

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Speaker 1: as a correspondent looking into his almae matter, which happened

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Speaker 1: to be the college in Florida that Ron DEA. Sanders

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Speaker 1: had taken over, oh and hed College, the New College

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Speaker 1: of Florida, and he had taken it over, it turns

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Speaker 1: out by basically bombing it with baseball players. So they

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Speaker 1: turned over the student body, repoliticizing it, replacing, you may

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Speaker 1: even say, great replacement, burying them the students, this deep

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Speaker 1: and proud history of like, of liberal arts, of like,

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Speaker 1: of like hippie dumb even replaced by baseball player recruits,

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Speaker 1: so that they could then change the demographics of the

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Speaker 1: institution as well as refocus everything in the model of various.

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Speaker 2: Even if they tried to put any of this fucking

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Speaker 2: effort into literally anything else.

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Speaker 1: It's all pranks. Basically, if Christopher Ruffo, who shows up

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Speaker 1: in that episode, what if he tried to do other things? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what if he tried What if he tried jumping out

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Speaker 1: of a helicopter? Yeah, I don't know if that's not Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: that's nice of you to say that, certainly, No, no, no, just.

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Speaker 2: We are just riffing. Yeah, you don't not having fun.

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Speaker 1: He could do anything. Maybe he flies, we don't know.

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Speaker 3: But the bit that I wanted to underline with that, though,

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Speaker 3: is that, like that sort of journalism is hard and expensive,

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Speaker 3: but it is also it doesn't have to come out

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Speaker 3: the other end as like morally safer sitting in a

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Speaker 3: chair talking to a whistleblower.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like the bit that I have enjoyed the most about

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Speaker 3: the certainly the bit about like Jordan Hudson is good

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Speaker 3: for this. I mean, it's good on its own, but

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Speaker 3: like so much of when we talk about journalism, we

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Speaker 3: talk about, you know, the dangerous state that it's in,

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Speaker 3: and you know all of that is is true, it's

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Speaker 3: also fun, like it is a cool thing to do

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Speaker 3: with your time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the bit that I think you captured in that.

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Speaker 3: Which is sort of like at the core of what

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Speaker 3: makes like a good podcast good, is that, like, when

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Speaker 3: you're reporting a story, there's this like sort of like

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Speaker 3: Flowers for Maaldron one bit where like, for ninety minutes

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Speaker 3: after you file the story, you are an expert on

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Speaker 3: a thing that you just did all this reading and

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Speaker 3: all this reporting on it. And then if you're like me,

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Speaker 3: slowly the curtain drops and then when it goes back up,

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Speaker 3: it's just like a nineteen eighty nine Dave Maggot and

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Speaker 3: Baseball card at an empty stage. All of that goes away.

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Speaker 3: But when you know your shit and you're like telling

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Speaker 3: people crazy stuff that they don't know and they're responding

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Speaker 3: to it, like, first of all, you feel more interesting

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Speaker 3: than you actually are, but also, like I've been on

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Speaker 3: both sides of it, it is fun.

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Speaker 2: You also learn more about the material as you get

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Speaker 2: someone to bounce off of. But I think.

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Speaker 1: That that part, like I thank you for again pitching

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Speaker 1: the show better than I could, because the premise I'm

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Speaker 1: angling for a job. I mean, well, listen, mister, are

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Speaker 1: you kill one more turtle? Something on your heads?

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Speaker 2: To me?

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Speaker 1: The idea here is that this stuff doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: just be you know, and you ought to proposition. It's

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Speaker 1: like you want to actually hang out while we're doing journalism, right,

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Speaker 1: And that part of like it is stupid but smart.

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Speaker 1: It is highbrow butt lowbrow. It is fundamentally silly and

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Speaker 1: also nutritious in some meaningful way. That's why I love

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Speaker 1: and I'm not yet tired by my job.

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Speaker 2: And I'm the same way with better offline because I

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Speaker 2: don't bother to worry so much about whether I'm perfect.

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Speaker 2: As many people email me, thank.

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Speaker 1: You, please have people reminding you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, there's a slight echo in the room. There's a

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Speaker 2: slight echo in my heart.

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Speaker 6: Now, great note.

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Speaker 2: But it's you get to talk about this stuff that's

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Speaker 2: very serious. But when you read objective quote unquote journalist,

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Speaker 2: it's just this dry, fucking pallid list of stuff with

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Speaker 2: some degree of context, versus the very human reaction you

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Speaker 2: can have to the news of the day, even if

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Speaker 2: it isn't a conclusive thing, even if it's just open

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Speaker 2: aye did this, or the very strange things that constantly

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Speaker 2: happen with the Bill Belichick thing like Jordan Hudson getting

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Speaker 2: banned from you and see like these moments, these moments

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Speaker 2: are fascinating to discuss and lost in regular journalism. I

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Speaker 2: find they just they go, well, this happened. Shit. Well.

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Speaker 1: I also think that so much of our magnetic field

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Speaker 1: in journalism is the sun god of the algorithm that

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Speaker 1: I was describing before, and for me, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: Dave magnum aside, there are just lots of pockets of

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Speaker 1: sports that are so much more fun than what the

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Speaker 1: a block on a given talk show is that day,

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Speaker 1: and I am somebody who often might be participating in

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Speaker 1: that a block of like I love look, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not here to say sports television. It's merely that they

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Speaker 1: have dined at the same buffet for so long that

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Speaker 1: there's all this other stuff and so it's hard to

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Speaker 1: not just like speaking the language of endless metaphor here,

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Speaker 1: but like, what if there's a restaurant that also served

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Speaker 1: the other things on the menu?

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Speaker 5: Yeh.

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Speaker 2: But even one of my favorite dining experiences I had recently,

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Speaker 2: my dear friend Noah Arenstein, friend of the show. I

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Speaker 2: went out with him to them Andy cap Fe, which

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Speaker 2: is exactly what it sounds like, and he ordered it.

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Speaker 2: And there's this guy Chris Crowley there thinking he works

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Speaker 2: at New York Magazine or New Yorker. He's going to

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Speaker 2: be really pissed. I forgot about that. It was so

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Speaker 2: nice to just be there with two experts to just

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Speaker 2: tell me what the fuck was going on. Then we

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Speaker 2: went to the Long Island Bar, I think it's the

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Speaker 2: place port and just having them regale with the stories with.

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Speaker 1: The Long Island Bar down on the Avenue. Yeah, yeah, yah,

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Speaker 1: good Burger there, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was just like try the cheese coats. Seeing around with

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Speaker 2: someone who really loves and knows a shit ton about

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Speaker 2: something and having a discussion about it. He's electric and fun.

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Speaker 2: It's the basis of all well not all podcasting, but

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Speaker 2: it's the basis of why we like entertainment and why

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Speaker 2: we have experts in general. But I feel like it's

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Speaker 2: something kind of lost on modern journal like you don't,

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Speaker 2: oh you know us. I had a journalisty the other

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Speaker 2: day and be like, oh, yeah, they don't want us

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Speaker 2: to do an opinion about the subjects we write about.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to fucking shoot myself. It was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want the people who know stuff to talk

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Speaker 2: about this. They might it's a category.

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Speaker 3: I also think that it's one of those things where

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Speaker 3: and I understand how if you work in a s

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Speaker 3: pious news gathering organization like you would take this work seriously,

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Speaker 3: But there's also something very useful about taking stupid shit

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Speaker 3: seriously in this case, which is basically this is another

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Speaker 3: bit uh defectory experience with this. We were filing a

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Speaker 3: bunch of foyers to unc everybody is to try to

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Speaker 3: figure out you know, what are the emails exchanged between

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Speaker 3: Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson and the provost and whoever whatever,

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Speaker 3: Just for yucks, we saw that one of Pablo's producers

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Speaker 3: had filed one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was just funny because it's like

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Speaker 1: you can see who else is sort of in there.

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Speaker 1: We're doing this today seeing what else people filed.

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Speaker 3: But I love that, like the idea of I mean,

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Speaker 3: all of those cost a little bit of money, all

440
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: of them takes some time to do, and yet it

441
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 3: is like you're gonna get a better product out of

442
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: the other end of it. But also it's funny to

443
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 3: spend time using the Freedom of Incremation Act or stuff

444
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 3: like that. It doesn't all need to be taking.

445
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: Down this very bizarre took lesque man and he is

446
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: extremely I'm not getting into the age discourse. It's not

447
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: worth it, I'm but.

448
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: It's the bit that people should know if they don't

449
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 3: follow sports, is that Bill Belichick is the crustiest, nastiest dude,

450
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 3: just like a guy famous for like being like rude

451
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: to reporters, rude with.

452
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 2: People here like a hoodie with holes in it, and.

453
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: He looks a Trump. I mean, he's something of that

454
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: Trump spoke about at one Dais or another where he says,

455
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: there's this letter, this letter, this correspondence between Belichick and Trump.

456
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: He's he is in many ways truly the paragon of

457
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: what it means to be the greatest coach in football,

458
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: many believe, and also the biggest asshole. Yeah, and is

459
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: he is both. And so this being the character at

460
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: the heart of this is partly why Yes, we did

461
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 1: have one of our producers file hundreds of public.

462
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 3: Record, but that's like to me that and I think

463
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: that all of this stuff that I remember most fondly

464
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 3: reading has that element of like applying a great deal

465
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: of rigor and work, like not just in terms of

466
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: and craft too, obviously, like you wanted to read well

467
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 3: and sound good and all that, but doing way more

468
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: than you need to on a silly thing is to

469
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 3: me like basically one hundred times out of one hundred.

470
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: And everyone has a weird proclivity. I can talk about

471
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: for hours. That's why I can't legally bring up jud

472
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: Jo's bizarre adventure on the show anymore. My heart ready

473
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 2: informed me this morning. But it's just also we all

474
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 2: have our own things. So watching someone else through that

475
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: and put real love and effort and sincerity into it

476
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: is a powerful and interesting thing. And shooting the shit

477
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: with some people that actually give a shit about who

478
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 2: might not know everything. So it's kind of like friends

479
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: having a discussion but taken seriously.

480
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the sort of dynamic that I imagine

481
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: makes Rogan work for people, which is basically like two

482
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: guys just like you know, going back and.

483
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: Forth for a while. But if like one of those people.

484
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: Has to know what they're talking about, ideally another one

485
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: of them would be funny like that, Basically the armature

486
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 3: is there. Yeah, and then if you populate it with

487
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: people that you know, like you happen to have two

488
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 3: really good counterpunchers in there, Katie Nolan, like legendary video

489
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 3: talents of her that like you do that, and then

490
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 3: like you make sure that you know this stuff like

491
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 3: a to Z Like that's I mean whatever, it's not revolutionary,

492
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: like you said, but it is also like that's just

493
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: a product of doing a good job.

494
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: It's also something that isn't incentivized given the basic math

495
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: of how to do anything now. Right, So the whole

496
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: idea of like we're going to spend a lot of work,

497
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: a lot of money. I mean, again, I cannot stress

498
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: enough how much of Dan Lebutard's money I've been spent

499
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: to do this stuff. And I don't expect anybody else

500
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: like the whole question. At a certain point that you

501
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: begin to contemplate around like what did we do here?

502
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: What is this format? Why does it work? Who else

503
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: can compete with us in this category? Like in Silicon Valley,

504
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: As you know, they talk about the moat a lot, right,

505
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: how do you build a moat around yourself? I am

506
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: pleased to report that our moat is just our weird obsessiveness.

507
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: And the people the literally like you, and you.

508
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: Like yes, No, it's do you obsess about this enough

509
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: such that you want to spend money hiring people who

510
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: are going to obsess about it even more? And that

511
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: is again, if you're gonna start from scratch, it's not

512
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: what I would advise anyone to do.

513
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: I actually don't know if I agree. I like the

514
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: high production. I think taking stuff seriously on the production

515
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: level is good, but I don't know. I have I

516
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: put our newsletter this morning's Monday, the sixteenth of June.

517
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: I'll probably do a new podcasts about it as well.

518
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: But it's like, I feel like they all want the

519
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan of the left, and they're like, how does

520
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 2: this keep happening? We have this amicable OAF who's curious

521
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: about everything because he knows nothing. Oh, and we also

522
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: have this insanely high production thing. We make sure that

523
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: everything's done really well and it sounds good and it

524
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: looks good, and it's well done on social and the subject.

525
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: He clearly has someone doing the research for him, because

526
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: if he has three hours of questions off there, he

527
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: may just be like a true.

528
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know that he's doing any research.

529
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: No, I don't like for him, all right, yeah, for him,

530
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 2: Like I would not be surprised if he didn't know

531
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: who was in front of him, Like who you know,

532
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: who's this, Jamie? That's Donald Trump? Donald Trump?

533
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: Is he good?

534
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: Is he?

535
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: Is he any good?

536
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 5: Yeah?

537
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

538
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: Hi? Like it's I mean, there's also Lex Friedman, which

539
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: is just a.

540
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: Mystery, but it's I have many follow ups about about Lex. I.

541
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: Well, my first question is why can't he say a sentence?

542
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 2: He's just like hello, I'm.

543
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: Al struck by this.

544
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: On those podcasts, things that are like popular that are

545
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 3: not for me. Yes, like that's the story of my life.

546
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: It's fine. It's just like it's way easier for me

547
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: to even you know, like seeing a few minutes of

548
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: ant Man and the Wasp and I'm like, nope, not

549
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 3: that does not go you know, in any of my.

550
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 2: But that makes sense.

551
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: But it's also I'm just saying that it's like not

552
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: for me.

553
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: The idea of watching a podcast where like someone who

554
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: is obviously either both unprepared or just like not good

555
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: at talking, Like I don't get how that.

556
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: Was mental latency, like he he during the Donald Trump interview.

557
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: I only watch bits of because I don't want to die.

558
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: He goes, Bolatics is a dirty game, and he just pausing, goes,

559
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: how do you win at that game? This is the

560
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: most popular tech podcast.

561
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: Really good, And it's.

562
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: Just like, yeah, this is very true. Like it's just

563
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: like so bad.

564
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: It's like I love that he wears black tie. Yeah

565
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: does he? He wears like he always wears like a

566
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: black sea with a black tie and a white Stark shirt.

567
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: So cool. Yeah, like the cater waiter swag. That's a

568
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: really solid, real party down.

569
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a guy John I don't. But

570
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: with stuff like that, I'm just insulted by the whole

571
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: ex fertment thing. He's so bad. But those podcasts also

572
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: like six hours so long. He did one with Sam

573
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: Mormon for like four hours. He could have said anything.

574
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: I can't watch it. I try to. My brain stops.

575
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: My brain just like shuts down. It's like I've been

576
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: in a car accident.

577
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: That's an awfully long time to be spending with any dudes,

578
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: let alone if one of the him.

579
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: Samuel, and he's just like, yeah, you know dedis senders.

580
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: We wild themselves now, And it's like, wow, what is dead?

581
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: How do you computer?

582
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: Ye?

583
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: I wish.

584
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: I hope this is as long as the Irishman.

585
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: No.

586
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: I want, I want all of that.

587
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 2: I want to be on next Rippons so bad. I

588
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: should just be clear. I'm going to read him riddles

589
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: like it's going to be amazing. But you look at

590
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: like Theovon or Joe Rogan and you see the productions good.

591
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: Theovon is a good interviewer. He's got despite his insane

592
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: that he has like an insanely long name. Do you

593
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: know his name? His name, his real name? Oh my christ,

594
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: it is so happy to be the dutchessh this is

595
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: something or other likes or whatever it comes after it.

596
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: Theovon's real name is Theodore Capitani von Kernatowski, the third.

597
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: That's right, one of the greatest names of all time,

598
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: and his the whole thing has been.

599
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, damn, yeah, this is a good decision by

600
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: THEO Vonn to go by Theovn given the proceeding Yeah.

601
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: It'd be so much funnyer if he us this whole

602
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: name though, and kept her and they're like, yeah, my

603
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: name is current. But but you don't get the sense

604
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: from Rogan or Kernatowski, uh, that they that they're condescending

605
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: or that they have like maybe they are in some

606
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 2: way to like people of color, I don't know, but

607
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: they have a genuine like, oh, I want to be here,

608
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: I'm interested, I'm interested in getting good material out of you.

609
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like calm and effortless, and it's

610
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: like maybe there is effort behind it, but it's just

611
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: it feels like a lot of that is just genuinely

612
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 2: missing for media. It's something you both do in podcasts,

613
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: and you obviously do when more podcasts Pablo as well,

614
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 2: but it's just like, let's get the let's get some

615
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: interesting ship. Let's have a good conversation, because I don't

616
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: know several people who know each other discussing something interesting

617
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: might have a good interesting conversation, like you could listen

618
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: to on your on your phone in the podcast It's

619
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: not that hard?

620
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: What's hard about it? Though? I'll tell you what I've

621
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: found hard about it? And I mean it's different.

622
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: I don't mean it's not that hard.

623
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: No, it isn't that hard. I mean it's not hard

624
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 3: relative to like we know that people like it, you know,

625
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: and so like doing it well is a skill that

626
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: you can learn and we've enjoyed when Pablo's come on.

627
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: The Defector podcast distraction, like it's like getting to shoot around.

628
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 3: With a with like Lebron, Like, you're just you've done

629
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: a lot of this, You're really good at talking. You've

630
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: less verbal junk than I do. Like it's fun, you're

631
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: a verbal junk baller. I'm just absolutely.

632
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: But beyond that, I think that so that is like

633
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: it's a learnable skill to be able to do the

634
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: challenge for me though, is I want to be as

635
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: good at talking or as knowledgeable as whoever is on

636
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: and for the most part, I'm not.

637
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 3: And that's not a criticism of me. It just means that,

638
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: like you have to be willing to ask simpleton type questions.

639
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: You want to put this in a more empathetic sense.

640
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: Same with the listeners, right, they're logging on to hear

641
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: you tell them something and maybe you Pablo telling you

642
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: something that you don't know, and you learning, maybe they too,

643
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: We'll learn. It's something Robert and Sophie earlier on said.

644
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: It's just like, if you don't know something, don't just

645
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: ask every time you have to, because there will be

646
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 2: a listener who's.

647
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: Like total I believe it's funny to mention like Lebron

648
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: because oftentimes I have to do the exercise my mind

649
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: of like do I need to explain who Lebron is

650
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: to people?

651
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

652
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: Like truly, like I presume that the audience that comes

653
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: to my show does not know anything about anything.

654
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: And Lebron James is a basketball player.

655
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: If you on the one of the biggest basketball men

656
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 3: we've got, he's he's really good, prominent, he's very strong.

657
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: But but what I would say about about like what

658
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: about like meeting the listener wherever they are it is

659
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: to me. It is about the exercise of can I

660
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: make someone who doesn't give a single ship about this

661
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: care about this story? And so we do stories about

662
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: fencing corruption, We'll do stories. I mean, I can I

663
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: could waste your time mentioning all of the obscure things

664
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: that I have I think confy into listening to.

665
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: I mean, Hankazari or interview was fascinating. That was like

666
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: the furthest from what you agullly do because and he

667
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: wasn't telling just stories about like the Simpson stuff, like it.

668
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: Was like he was great. And we tried to the

669
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: joke of my shows that were a technically sports show,

670
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: which means that like somewhere like an easter egg, you'll

671
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: see a sports reference. I don't think anybody cares enough

672
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: to check the box, but I'd check the box. And Roth,

673
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: by the way, just to the thing. The problem I

674
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: want to pay him is that when it comes to

675
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: like thinking about politics in a way that speaks so

676
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: fluently the languages of HyperIntelligence and utter stupidity, no one

677
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: is better at David Roth and diagnosing that in Donald Trump,

678
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: that's nice, Like you need to be someone who was

679
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: so brilliant that they're also a moron and roth like truly,

680
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: it's it's being fluent at both sort of registers.

681
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: And did the one of my favorite ones is like

682
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: my good friend Beetle Juice.

683
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of because the idea of thinking

684
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: about who you could convince him is a real guy

685
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: as a fan of his, he's segning you know, I knew,

686
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: well we were friends, we were great friends, but we're

687
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: not friends anymore.

688
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 6: Can die.

689
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: But the the bit that I the dumb question thing,

690
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: the version of it that I sort of like, whatever,

691
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: this is like positive self talk that he was saying

692
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: into a microphone we had.

693
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: Bob mold On was Bob old uh hooskerdoo and sugar

694
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: like iconic punk rock musician man.

695
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: And also very strong yes and a sweet yeah. Also

696
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: worked in wrestling and really just like one of the

697
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: most interesting guys in the listening as a writer, not

698
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: as a as a performer. But he uh, you know

699
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 3: those bands being a great deal to me. M he

700
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: is my co host Drew McGarry's favorite musician. And the

701
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: question that I asked him basically after you know he

702
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: had a new album out to listen to it and

703
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: I don't know enough about it helped that it was

704
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: about music, which is basically just a foreign language to me.

705
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: So I can't be like, when you made this decision,

706
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: your fretwork on the bridge here to like I can't

707
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: you know, like I even saying it here, I had to.

708
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: I had to do the dumb guy voice to put

709
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: it over. But I asked him like is it fun

710
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: to write a song?

711
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: Like is it is it cool for you?

712
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: That question?

713
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: And I think I had to get past the anxiety

714
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: of like asking someone I respect a question that is

715
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: basically like something a seven year old would have asked,

716
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: and yet like we got a really good answer, and

717
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: also like I wanted to know, you know, like it's

718
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: better to admit what you don't know and ask the

719
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 3: seven year old question than it is to try to

720
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: like bluff and do the expertise thing along with someone

721
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: who's a real expert.

722
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: And I have I have this theory that I will

723
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: never be able to prove, which is I think most

724
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: people forget stuff all the time, Like you will be

725
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: on listening to something and be like who's Lebron James

726
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: go fuck uh golf uh? You know, or like who

727
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: and like you will forget all terms, Like on the show,

728
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: I ownerous thing and people say you repeat yourself. I

729
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: repeat myself, like defining what generated AI's probabilistic, What does

730
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: that mean that? Because sometimes you will be listening to

731
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: an hour and a half of me talking, you might

732
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: fucking forget something. And also being empathetic I don't know

733
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: with like when I'm hanging out with my friends, people

734
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: don't know shit all the time. Part of the fun

735
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: thing of being in live is helping people know stuff

736
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: and having shared experiences. And I love that question of what,

737
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: like I want to ask And this is for somewhat

738
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: meaner reasons. My dream question to ask any tech executive

739
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: is are you happy? I want to ask sundarp As

740
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: Shy are you happy? Because it's a hell of a

741
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: question because you want to say yes, But you know

742
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: I've got a follow up what makes you happy? And

743
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: you know they don't have ship for.

744
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: Him for all the stuff.

745
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: He's the guy that gave the interview where he's like,

746
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 3: all day I'm just fucking asking questions of our AI.

747
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: I talked to Gemini all day long.

748
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: That's such a dela of micro That's what it was.

749
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: No similar gargoyle like yeah.

750
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: But it's just profiling on my part wrong. Remove it

751
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: from the.

752
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: Podcast profiling of like extremely rich asshole rooming products. I mean,

753
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: like you welcome to the show.

754
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: But there was something I think the idea of like

755
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: what is any of this four?

756
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: Is that a good question to ask yourself? To bring

757
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: it back to Rogan for a second, though, it also

758
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: feels like anyone whose industry is seeing rates of ketamine

759
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: usage increase so dramatically cannot possibly what does that indicate

760
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: to you? It just it just feels like there is

761
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: a fundamental searching for something like fulfillment and a happiness.

762
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: With lonely and by the way, like this the one

763
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: is like like everyone is more disconnected.

764
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: And I find that in sports of course, Like if

765
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: there's any lesson to learn from Bill Balichick and Michael

766
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Jordan and Tom Brady and every greatest of all time

767
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: and any category you want, it is that they wont

768
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: everything and are miserable.

769
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: Yes, completely, And and.

770
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: So how do you fill the void that you thought

771
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: the trophies, the money the generative AI was going to fill?

772
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: You search for other things like the Silicon Valley thing. Again,

773
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm not, by the way, something I'm frustrated by is

774
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: just how now uncool Joe Rogan made psychedelics? Yeah, and

775
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm the least cool person to think of

776
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: it in those terms. The point being, though, that there

777
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: is something that is missing that people are trying to find,

778
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: and I think, are you happy? I presume that all

779
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: of them are actually quite on.

780
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: And I would be this would be a hostile interview

781
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: technique that they will never because one of my favorite

782
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: things is that I grew up thinking I was stupid.

783
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: I thought I was stupid until like two years ago.

784
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: I'm deadly fucking serious. It's an incredible technique.

785
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: Though no amount of you have like a real nice house, Yeah,

786
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: like there was no point where you were like damn,

787
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: non accidents keep happening.

788
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: No, it's luck.

789
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: Like I like how the thing where you have the

790
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: accent that makes you sound smart didn't work on you

791
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: as it did, But it means though.

792
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: It's worked on me from the very beginning, Like, damn,

793
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: this guy really knows his Raiders football?

794
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: How did he learn so much?

795
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: Oh God, I'm gonna get emails about the writers. Do

796
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: you know? Looks good? I think broke anyway, But it

797
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 2: means that I've never walked into a room being like, oh,

798
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: I hope he doesn't think I'm stupid, which is actually

799
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: useful for the business as well. But in I need

800
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: give an interview, I feel like interviewers Neilipetel will go

801
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: in there and be like, I'm going to ask the

802
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: best fucking questions in the world, not the most useful,

803
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: not the most interesting, but the ones that make them

804
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: sound good and get the biggest, most self ingratiating thing done.

805
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: And I understand why, but it's you have access to

806
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: someone that people don't have access to. Can you at

807
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: least get something new? Can you at least not line

808
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 2: them up with the buffet of options. I don't know

809
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: if you get it as much in sports, just because

810
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: if someone lies about being good at sports and then

811
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: goes and plays poorly, you can notice.

812
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: That, Oh but sports is full. We did an episode

813
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: actually that's kind of related to this, and it's about

814
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: kind of the tyranny of jargon in sports and how

815
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: lots of people are trying to perform the vocabulary of

816
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: a coach, which is kind of like, right, like a scout.

817
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: What is the vocabulary of a coach or a scout?

818
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of phrases. Do you have like

819
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 3: a couple of like brown note like nightmare phrases?

820
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: For me?

821
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: Is impact winning? That's an NBA one?

822
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: Does that mean it means it's a good basketball player.

823
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: It's the most annoying way to say that. This is

824
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: all No, it's not.

825
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: It's not like it that's that's like an it's almost like.

826
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: An idiomatic just sort of like so they just say

827
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: someone's an impact. But there's also just like the Fighter

828
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: Pilot kind of like call sign stuff where it's like, yeah,

829
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: Spider to wy Banana, Yeah.

830
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of what within sport?

831
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, just within the game.

832
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: So Spider too by Banana? Is this is a play

833
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: call that I will not even begin to summary. I

834
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: thought I thought you were literally Spider doing like a

835
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: plain thing.

836
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: It is a John Gruden play. I know a listener

837
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: of the pod friend friend of.

838
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: It friend, but I don't even know what a friend

839
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: Spider apocryphal or it's real not because Ed's been to

840
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: uh Gruden's quarterback. Yeah camp, you were doing squads with due.

841
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jered Lorenzen coach. It didn't go well.

842
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: R I p Yeah, briefs so yeah, but there is

843
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: there's all this vocabulary that sort of signals that you

844
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: have the fluency of a of a of of of

845
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: of a code that is so indecipherable, uh to the

846
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: outside person that it becomes a point of pride. And

847
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: so in sports there's just a lot of peacocking around

848
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: that language, a lot of like, oh, they're you know,

849
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: they're running cover three there, but they're doing a stunt

850
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: of them a gap to be just like stuff that's

851
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: meant to exclude. And so when you say, like a

852
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: person who asks a question that is intended to signal

853
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: their knowledge as opposed to help the listener understand anything,

854
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: I think of the ways in which people are cause

855
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: playing coaching all of the time. And also it's kind

856
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: of why as much as we have already been crapping

857
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: all over Joe Rogan and theo Von something that I

858
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: do appreciate generally speaking, I've not listen to all their episodes,

859
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: but what they do tend to do is not try

860
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: and perform over intelligence.

861
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: And the thing is you can say, like I've seen

862
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: some THEOV and I've seen some Joe Rug and they

863
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: fucking host white supremacists in the open it fucking sucks.

864
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: You can still look at the format and learn, and

865
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: I think people have trouble separating those things because it

866
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: really comes down to they their questions are simple, and

867
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: then they get like Jordan pieces of prok. Have you

868
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: seen the Nightmaan Man? Yeah, like you just some insane shit.

869
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: And then he says nothing to that because he dru

870
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: rug is like, yeah, yeah, I met I knew a

871
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: guy like that.

872
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: That happened to my buddy Eric. Yeah, yeah, there is

873
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: that sense.

874
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: I think also there's a difference in sports discourse where

875
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 3: there's everything that you said about, like the sort of

876
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: ostentatious performance of expertise and like inside y you know,

877
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: like everybody wants to be plugged in. Yeah, it has

878
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: impacted in some ways, like the language. In fact, I

879
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 3: just used impact as a verse.

880
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: It's clearly it's mainly something on an impact made an

881
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: impact on like a concussive. You used it correctly, yes,

882
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: I guess I did.

883
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: But the way that that's like worked out, I think

884
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 3: that there's the way that people like Scoop Smith type

885
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: guys here, like Seamstrania dudes, like they write not in

886
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 3: like a syntax that is observable outside of text messages

887
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: from Russians to guys like him, that there's something very

888
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: like artificial and.

889
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 2: Shouts just for the listeners. Is a guy who mostly

890
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: says a guy has been traded.

891
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: Yes, he says it first, he exactly, he is five

892
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: seconds ahead of the actual public.

893
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: And he also was the one that scooped Donald Trump

894
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: getting COVID.

895
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: I hate that gets yeah.

896
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: And what sucks is I found out through I was

897
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 2: speaking to someone at the time for some reason I

898
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: can't disclose, and they showed me a clip from the

899
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: barstool show the Yak when it happened, and when they

900
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 2: showed this guy on their Stephen Chay, and it's just

901
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: like the worst ten minutes of just like a guy

902
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: who made basically was like, yeah, I think Shams would

903
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: break World War three, and just these guys like wanting

904
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: him to be wrong, and they just hate every like

905
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 2: everyone's kind of miserable, like anyway, so Shams just breaks news.

906
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 3: That's his only and that he's like there's a guy

907
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 3: that does it for the NFL. Yes, a guy they're

908
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,959
Speaker 3: trying to make Jeff Passon, who's like an ace feature writer.

909
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: They're trying to make him that guy for baseball.

910
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: And the incentives are to be a newsbreaker because you

911
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: are I mean, by the way, when Woj was doing this,

912
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: Adrian Morjenerowski, who I should disclose is a person who

913
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: now works for Saint Bonaventure's university. Yeah, he's the GM,

914
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: but was making you know, millions on millions of dollars

915
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: being the newsbreaker basically like the human Uh yeah, like

916
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: scoop machine that fielding texts and there was just a

917
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: bit n I don't know if you remember this, but

918
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: during the NBA draft one year when Woj I think

919
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: was at ESPN, so he was working for the broadcaster

920
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: of the draft, but trying to scoop the draft. You're

921
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: talking by five seconds ahead, and so in order to

922
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: get through the to thread the needle, uh, he ended

923
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: up just not saying the bulls are about to take

924
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler or whatever this is. You know, got reck

925
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: conning data or yes, but it's basically like the bulls

926
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: are targeting the phoenix, suns are circling.

927
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: He kept coming up with new phrasing and it's hard.

928
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 3: There's like thirty two picks. So he'd be like, I'm

929
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 3: hearing that The bulls are in Source so Old by

930
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: Wendell Carter Junior.

931
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 2: At the Spot, which is just, I mean, every single

932
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: better off line episode says walks you through Yeah, because

933
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: I cannot fucking think of another way to say it,

934
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: and I refuse, so I ge't miss the But.

935
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 3: You can see all of what we're describing here. These

936
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: are not These are great paying jobs, and they do

937
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: tend to select for people who are like metabolically capable

938
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: of responding to text messages for twenty hours a day.

939
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, although when woj' that's me. When wod left

940
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: the job, he was basically like this sucks. I hate

941
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: it again. I'm having a hard time. Like who's like,

942
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm unhappy? Yeah, was basically his press release and like, yeah, whatever,

943
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: the opposite of Michael Jordan, I'm back. He's just like Nope,

944
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,959
Speaker 1: I'm not the whole thing.

945
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: But like that is a function of all of this.

946
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: But I think the bit that is kind of missing

947
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: from it, and you see it when you know, like

948
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: when a podcast works, or if you're reading a story

949
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: that's written by somebody who is given the space and

950
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 3: the time to write something that they like, which is

951
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 3: increasingly rare all this shit is fun. Everybody's here because

952
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: it's fun. No one is here because it is important that,

953
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: like especially with sports, there are aspects of it that

954
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: you can use as sort of like a way into

955
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: seeing things about the broader culture that are important. But

956
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: none of this is like mandatory, right, you know, And

957
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: so the game and so to the extent that you

958
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: can talk about it in a way that is fun

959
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 3: and that is not either like actionable gambling intelligence or

960
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 3: part of some like endless barber shop set to that

961
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: where everybody's arguing about who's now or somebody's legacy or whatever.

962
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: Legacy.

963
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the best topics to play fight

964
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: about with the fellas.

965
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: So the thing is, this is something missing from the

966
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: tech industry, because most people in tech when you talk

967
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: to don't seem to want to talk about anything. You've

968
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 2: got this growth of who is it? I really should

969
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 2: know this one? Ryan Something. There's a former player who

970
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: has a really good podcast with a bunch of players,

971
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 2: Ryan Clark, Yes, Ryan Clark, and he just sits around

972
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: and he has very serious conversations, sometimes quite joking ones

973
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: with other people that have played games of sports for money.

974
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: And that's why It's interesting because you're hearing their experiences

975
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: and it's kind of rough and ready probably a little

976
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: bit cleaned up more than we know. I imagine some of it.

977
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: I don't know in his case, but I imagine there

978
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 2: are more harsh parks.

979
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 3: Got like a real job to avoid losing. But I

980
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: do think that there's what you're talking about, though, is

981
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 3: that like people want something authentic.

982
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: And the tech industry constantly tries to create it, but

983
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: it always ends up being a venture capitalist and three

984
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 2: of their investments being like you know, I was using

985
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: general if Ai the other day and it just changed

986
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: my life. How I were going to add break and

987
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 2: it's just like these fucking people pissed me off because

988
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: tech is so universal, whether or not you consider yourself technical.

989
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: Kind of the same way with the sport. It's like baseball.

990
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: One of my favorite Casey Kagawa, friend of the show,

991
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 2: once said it to me. It's like it's still a

992
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: child's game. It's still the same game. Aaron Judge plays

993
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: baseball a lot better than a kid playing little but

994
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,919
Speaker 2: he's still hitting a fucking ball, And there was something

995
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: universal about that. I think tech's getting there. Perhaps we're

996
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: not they're quite I think most people are not accepting

997
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: it yet. But the fact is, I think there is

998
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: something deeply personal about tech that no one's fucking touching

999
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: in this way, and they should because it's interesting.

1000
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 3: This is one of the big edd points to me,

1001
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 3: one of the ones that I think like you were

1002
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 3: first to and should be repeating as often as possible,

1003
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: which is that basically everybody that at some point everybody

1004
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: liked all this stuff.

1005
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now they don't, and they still.

1006
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: They like they like the stuff, they hate the tech and.

1007
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I think that like and so that

1008
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, you create this demand for people that they you.

1009
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: Know, it's cool to be able to like read anything

1010
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: as it happens, Like it will make you insane, but

1011
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: it's not bad, Like it's like kind of gratitude actually, yes,

1012
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: And yet like that you take that interest and then

1013
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: you use that to like sort of leverage ways to

1014
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: make more and more money off of it and dilute

1015
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: the experience more and more. And I think that that,

1016
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 3: you know, when someone is doing that to you for

1017
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: information that you need to understand the world around you,

1018
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: I think that that is criminal. When someone is doing

1019
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 3: that to you for sports stuff. I just think it's rude. Yeah,

1020
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 3: I just think it's like a dick move basically.

1021
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 1: Well, I also think big picture that everything I mean,

1022
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: this is this is going to sound profoundly unprofound, but

1023
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: like everything is tech, yes, like sports is. It's impossible

1024
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: to talk about everything we've basically talked about so far

1025
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: has been filled through the lens of tech in ways

1026
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: that it's different now that it used to be, in

1027
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: ways that these characters are people that we now know

1028
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: in a dimensionality that didn't previously exist. Because you know,

1029
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: Jordan Hudson posted an Instagram thing of a philosophy textbook

1030
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: that was autographed by Bill Belichick the day that they met,

1031
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: which was turns out nineteen years old. I'm not important,

1032
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: look again, a little bit important. Actually you know my disclosures, Yes,

1033
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: you know my disclosures.

1034
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: Sometimes when you're looking at Jordan Hudson's Instagram account, it's

1035
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 3: just for work, it's.

1036
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: Just because I'm a journalist. But look, my point being

1037
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: that it's when it comes to like media, the future

1038
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: of media, it's just impossible to disentangle every conversation I

1039
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: ever have from the fact that we are working in

1040
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: some direct or stochastic way for tech companies.

1041
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: You even mentioned the sun good of the algorithm.

1042
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: It's just impossible to not think about standard of success

1043
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: through the lens of what a tech company has engineered. Yes,

1044
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: and so it's it's yeah, it's omnipress. Yeah.

1045
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 3: But the challenge with this too, this is for Defector,

1046
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: which is more of a it's a print product, ye,

1047
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: you know, like it's a website that people subscribe to

1048
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: and read, and we have a podcast and we do

1049
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 3: videos every now and then, but most of what we

1050
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: do is writing that. To Publo's point about the tech industry,

1051
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 3: this has been like the challenge for us. I think,

1052
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 3: like we've got a steady, loyal subscriber base.

1053
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: We're good.

1054
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: It's a good business. How you direct people to your

1055
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 3: posts is not just I mean, it's the challenge that

1056
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 3: we're talking about the most, but any place that is print,

1057
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 3: as these sort of the tech mediated spaces through which

1058
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 3: people used to discover this as they either dry up

1059
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: or actively turned against their users.

1060
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: That idea of like I guess discoverability is I say

1061
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: that word all the time. Yeah, I hate myself everything.

1062
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it feels bad because it's like it's a

1063
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: fake ugly one feels like impact.

1064
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: But yes, it does feel it has that, but it

1065
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: kind of goes back to the thing I'm saying about

1066
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 2: the money side. It's like, I don't know this show

1067
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: is quite successful in pomp because iHeartRadio put it on

1068
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 2: the fucking rate. Yea, the actual show, but they put

1069
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of advertising behind it, which is awesome. I'm glad,

1070
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: really glad they did it, But it's like a big pomp.

1071
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: What a surprise A show has trouble finding new listeners

1072
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: when they have no discovery and just.

1073
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: We are we every look the obvious sort of statements

1074
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: of fact. It is harder to find anything now because

1075
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: all of us are fragmented, silo not consuming the same things,

1076
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: have personalized feeds. Again explained by the tech industry post

1077
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: lines that standards absolutely and so true and and some

1078
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: platforms are now like disincentivizing hyperlinks to places I mean

1079
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: literally like this is this is why it's so hard

1080
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: to get discovered. And so if the standard for just

1081
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: success becomes do you know that this exists? The game

1082
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: becomes I mean again, to return to another sort of

1083
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: like axiom, it becomes an attention game because that counts

1084
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 1: as something in a meaningful way, and so to have,

1085
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: in Defector's case, a subscription driven site and by the way,

1086
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: everything that wants to be a subscription yep. So kudos

1087
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: to we were early kudos to journalism to start us

1088
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: to start a.

1089
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 2: Premium feed on on you please subscribe any money, like,

1090
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: so it costs me thousands a year to do that's nice.

1091
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: What are you gonna put on the premium Iriday news?

1092
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 1: You said, dudes, nudes? I take artistic news.

1093
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to get all right, the mic magnifying

1094
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: glass tool. Anyway, it's Friday news and WS. It's why

1095
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 2: I can't say the word pawn either, a pawn because

1096
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: you're watching porn stars.

1097
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 5: Huh.

1098
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, the show with Rick. Oh yeah, best

1099
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 2: I can do. I'm sorry. Uh, it's just even doing

1100
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: that felt dirty. But it was kind of like, yeah,

1101
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: this cost me thousands of dollars a year.

1102
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: Like I'm contemplating the same thing. What are we going

1103
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: to put behind our premium sort of.

1104
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 2: Value wall And it's just the only advantage I think

1105
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: I really have is that I can write so much

1106
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: so fast, and I'm pretty good at the writing, but

1107
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: I can just fucking today.

1108
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: It was like, your like, average newsletter is my monthly

1109
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: output in.

1110
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: Terms of word count, but I don't post it at

1111
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: full fifty five pm on a Friday.

1112
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 3: That's that's a failure on your part. It's as editorial

1113
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 3: best practice.

1114
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 2: That's that's what everyone loves and what they signed up for.

1115
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: But it's it's fucked. But I also think it may

1116
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: end up being something good because people are being way

1117
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: more direct with what they actually want. I also think

1118
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: this is something where legacy media really fucks up, because okay,

1119
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 2: you've got the Daily. Actually I want to tell a

1120
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 2: really fucked up story. So I heart Media Awards right,

1121
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 2: which I did not win. To Kevin Ruce's very unfair.

1122
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: When they did an announcement of the different someone was

1123
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: in a category, it was they were saying, okay, we've

1124
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: got this podcast and The Daily with Michael Barbara, and

1125
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: is like and now I went outside and then there

1126
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: was a politician there and I thought, does he do politics?

1127
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: And someone goes, we love you, Michael. I want that

1128
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: person found. I want that person in jail. No, who's

1129
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: the Michael Barbara super fan like like the Japanese idols,

1130
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: but for me, Michael Barb.

1131
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: I think if you did a live recording of The Daily,

1132
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: you would have to do it at like the forum

1133
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 3: at Madison's.

1134
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 2: That's so sad.

1135
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough, man. This is a real hard thing

1136
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: to get your head around.

1137
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: But this is like, but this is the thing with

1138
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: these kids. It's a Buddhakana.

1139
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: He's gonna do a live episode.

1140
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: Opening up the fucking pit about Daily about.

1141
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: How the subway is too scary. Now, that's gonna be

1142
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: the episode that they're gonna perform.

1143
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: And that's when I'm here and with the wheelbarrows, that's

1144
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: when I'm just fucking spinning. And the legacy media people

1145
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: are pissing it away because they have the discovery discoverability part.

1146
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: Don already The New York Times could do so much

1147
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: interesting shit, but they're so afraid of this vague objectivity thing.

1148
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: I know, probably you have to do your like disclosures

1149
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 2: and shit, but they're just like, nah, instead of doing

1150
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: the disclosures, well just too a really boring and hitty job.

1151
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: What if it was just really dull? And so they

1152
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: already have the hard part done and they choose not

1153
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: to do anything extra because they're like, oh, well, people

1154
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: want this. Have you fucking tried? Have you tried even once?

1155
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 3: I'll say this with sports too, that this is an

1156
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 3: advantage that we have in this space over a place

1157
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 3: like The Times. I mean, The Times has got to

1158
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: report on things that are not fun, like so a

1159
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: little bit of whimsy, And anytime The Times attempts wimsy,

1160
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 3: there's this sort of like dog walking on its hind

1161
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 3: legs thing where you're like, we shouldn't be doing that.

1162
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 1: Like that you don't experience, but also you're like impressed.

1163
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: You're like, well, I didn't know you could do that,

1164
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: like please stop. Like the the.

1165
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: Thing with sports that does sort of like move you

1166
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: in a direction where like you could do more of

1167
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 3: that type of stuff, like you don't need to talk

1168
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 3: about sports in any particular way. The challenge for you know,

1169
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 3: I think for sports talk radio, which is something that

1170
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 3: I can't imagine an audience that overlaps less in the

1171
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: audience of this podcast than the people that listen to Wfan.

1172
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 3: But there are like there's guys whose job it is

1173
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 3: to just go sit in a studio for five hours

1174
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 3: every day and like every day like this is a

1175
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 3: weekly thing, and just somebody calls in and they're like,

1176
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 3: I don't think the island you should do that, and

1177
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 3: then the guys like wrong, and that goes on for

1178
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 3: an extended period of time. That is like it's a

1179
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: grim way of doing it, but it also is like

1180
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 3: it's not. There's very little in that space where you

1181
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 3: see people like sort of trying to do something different. Yeah,

1182
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: there are other ways of doing it. How it all sort.

1183
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: Of defaulted to this like sourpuss play fighting shit is

1184
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: a mystery to me other than the fact that it's like,

1185
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: if you had to sit and do something into a

1186
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: microphone for five hours a day, you'd probably come out

1187
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: of it pretty crusty too.

1188
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: So I actually the reason that I like doing the

1189
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: talking with the micro front thing is actually Penn State.

1190
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: I was on the Lion FM. If you are a

1191
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: Lion FM listener who heard me on college radio, email me.

1192
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: You doing talk or play music both okay, And I

1193
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: was co hosting with Joe Paterno. He did the weekly

1194
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: call in show.

1195
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: I didn't know who he was. I just thought he

1196
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: lived there.

1197
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: Elderly Italian man from the community.

1198
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 2: No, I did crazy shit. I had like a band

1199
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: on this go called Epileptic Pete was epileptic. He had

1200
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: his own eight string bass and they played like video

1201
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: game music. People fucking loved it. You just have some

1202
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: fun with it. But talk radio is extremely interesting. It's

1203
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 2: extremely when it's done well. It's I hope that this

1204
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: is kind of the format I'm going for here.

1205
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the idea of Vegas. I know.

1206
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeahs fun.

1207
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: I'd never really done that before, and people.

1208
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: Because talk radio is actually magical when done right. But

1209
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: done right is having a host that sounds like they're

1210
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 2: just talking but has thoughts about everything and they've been

1211
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 2: thinking about it to ask questions in some way. Pablo,

1212
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: you do this excellently. And it's like it pisses me

1213
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 2: off because it's like they don't want to try anything

1214
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: other than the exact standard. But I think the answer

1215
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 2: is it's the fucking algorithm. It's that they want to

1216
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 2: normalize and fit into what they think will go viral.

1217
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: Baby, which it generally is stuff that makes you mad, right,

1218
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like that's the idea of like

1219
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 3: that kind.

1220
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 2: Of stuff that's already big. It's that or you already

1221
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: work for a big newspaper, it's already a big brand

1222
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: other than the top of the iTunes podcast I don't

1223
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 2: know what's going with everyone is called like the Smile

1224
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 2: Hour with Dr Janine Benin, and it's like each episode

1225
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: is sixty minutes long and it's like how to smile more.

1226
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: I've brought smile exper Jesus to fat and he will

1227
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: tell us all about smiling. And they have like ten million,

1228
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: like five star reviews like this podcast change and you

1229
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: listen to them and it sounds like it sounds like

1230
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: what I imagine they'd listened to in the sound Goden

1231
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 2: video of Black Hole Sun.

1232
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 3: It's what's coming out of the radio and the ladies

1233
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 3: about to chop the fish.

1234
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1235
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: So I think my overarching theory of the future of

1236
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: media and everything is that we're all only fans now,

1237
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: which is to say that nudes yep, which is to

1238
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: say that like, there's a bunch of stuff that's wildly

1239
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: popular that's just not my kink.

1240
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1241
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: Now, I can also access the hyper specific thing that

1242
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: is mine, or create it and monetize it. But it's

1243
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: that thing of like in an era in which scale

1244
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: of the level of the New York Times or any

1245
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: incumbent publication is now impossible to recreate. For various reasons,

1246
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: including by the way, like to get back to Joe

1247
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: Rogan or Bill Simmons, like the first mover advantage of

1248
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: like being one of the first podcasts cannot be replicated anymore.

1249
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: There's just too much competition. Uh, and short of having

1250
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get the genealogy right, short of having

1251
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: someone who's husband's sister dated Taylor Swift or something. No,

1252
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm just like there are certain ways to like speed

1253
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: run growth, Taylor Swift, adjacent Rogan and Joe Rogan, cross

1254
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: pollination being another. In general, Yeah, we're aspiring to smaller arenas,

1255
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: but we are also aspiring for the people in those

1256
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: arenas to give us money. Yes, and that only fans

1257
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: economy of like, hey, if I show you some ankle,

1258
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: will you pay me for my increasingly bold takes or reportage?

1259
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: Or I can't stress this enough Bernie Sanders impressions. Yes,

1260
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: it turns out they will. Yeah, I mean that's the

1261
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: the thing that and I try to.

1262
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: Like sort of count my blessings with this with the

1263
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 3: factor because like it is, it's a good business, right,

1264
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 3: Like we're not we're growing, and yet like I think

1265
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 3: that the challenge withere that you know, we're going to

1266
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: turn five in September as a website, and that like

1267
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 3: more or less by website standards, is like middle age.

1268
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody like we all love it,

1269
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 3: we all love working with each other, like it's not

1270
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 3: going to change. And yet there's a part of it

1271
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 3: where like we don't all want to just like get

1272
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 3: old and die with our readership either, you know that,

1273
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 3: Like we want to be able to do new stuff

1274
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 3: and we want to be able to hire more people

1275
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: and change sort of the perspective of the site over time,

1276
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: and all of that costs money. I think, just because

1277
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: we want to feel like we're growing and not repeating ourselves.

1278
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 2: Why do you want to grow?

1279
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: So? I like, I like the look it democracy dies

1280
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: with us, yes, right, that's but that I feel like

1281
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: is the cultural moment that we're in. Not to get

1282
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: too depressing about it, but you can see this with

1283
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: like this is the apex of Trump, like he wants

1284
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: all of America buried with him like a fucking pharaoh.

1285
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: This is not a culture that is built to last

1286
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: beyond his like last breath, because what happens after that

1287
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 1: is none of his business.

1288
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: He doesn't care but I actually think it's grimmer than that.

1289
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: I think it's one step further and it's everywhere. It's

1290
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 2: the rock on me. It's the growth of the cost thing.

1291
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 2: It's people don't know. I know why they want to

1292
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 2: fucking grow. They just want to grow. Everything in our

1293
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 2: society tells us to grow. What do you want to do?

1294
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 2: I want to be a CEO. I want to I

1295
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: want the biggest thing ever. It's none about the product,

1296
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 2: It's about the posiness.

1297
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: This is where I put the the emphasis and like

1298
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 3: the difference for what like Defector does not want to

1299
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 3: become Fox, but like we don't want like to televise

1300
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 3: a bowl game.

1301
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: We need a llure of growth still and this is

1302
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 2: not grossly.

1303
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 3: Is just to like because we want to have like

1304
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 3: new people and do new ship. The challenge with it too, though,

1305
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 3: is that like the ways in which you can make

1306
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: money there And we've had new revenue streams and we're

1307
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: making more money. We have ads for people that aren't

1308
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 3: signed in, like they see that now we've got the

1309
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 3: podcasts those have ads, and we sell those.

1310
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: Cell phones, those gold plated oh my god s.

1311
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 3: Which are very those are great and we're looking forward

1312
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 3: to making those right here in the United States.

1313
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna make them.

1314
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: Cell phone Oh yeah, there is one of those. So smartness.

1315
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: One of the biggest comedy podcasts in the world, Listeners,

1316
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: has made a MV and O so a cell phone

1317
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: network that lives on top of T mobile. What is

1318
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: V and L I forget what it stands for. It

1319
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: basically means you can have.

1320
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: A suba things mobile. Yeah, you can run your yes

1321
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: a network.

1322
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 3: Ryan Reynold's gonna lead to the collapse of the telecommunications industry?

1323
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: Can that possibly be?

1324
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: Thank you Daniel our producer Mobile Virtual Network Operator. Oh

1325
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: I knew that, Yes, Daniel, thank you. It's but it's

1326
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 2: that really There's a great Slate piece on it as well.

1327
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 2: It was just really echoed how fucking sad it was

1328
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: because these guys are like super rich already and super popular,

1329
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 2: but they needed its cell phone.

1330
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 3: Growing for for the sake of just being like, there's

1331
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 3: more money out there to he made is I think

1332
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 3: this is an area where like everybody at Defector wants

1333
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 3: to fucking blog. That's our job, that is what we want.

1334
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 2: And that's why I fucking pay.

1335
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that like.

1336
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 3: And it's why I feel happy in this work in

1337
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 3: a way that I haven't felt before. I worked at

1338
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 3: all different types of sites in the past, with all

1339
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 3: different types of funders. I don't know what vice was.

1340
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 3: I guess that's a Ponzi scheme. Or for places that

1341
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 3: were owned by private equity that wasn't great. I worked

1342
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 3: for places that were owned as part of some sort

1343
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 3: of like venture back to tempt you know.

1344
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: At Vox.

1345
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 3: Basically whatever it was that Vox was trying to do,

1346
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 3: I was briefly a part of that. In all of

1347
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 3: those instances, everybody that I worked with just wanted to

1348
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 3: do our work, and yet you were subject to the

1349
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 3: I mean not even just like the whims kind of

1350
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 3: like cheapens it. I mean it was whatever it was

1351
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 3: that they wanted to do was what you were going

1352
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 3: to wind up, you know, downstream that would arrive as

1353
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 3: an avalanche when they rolled the snowball from the top

1354
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 3: of the mountain where they were. But the thing with

1355
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 3: all of that, I never felt safe in any of

1356
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 3: those jobs, including the ones where you know, I I

1357
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 3: organized one workplace advice. I worked at a very strong

1358
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 3: union workplace at Deadspin. In all of those instances, the

1359
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's much much better to organize your

1360
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 3: workplace than not, and I advocated anybody that wants to

1361
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 3: do it and should try to do it. But at

1362
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 3: some point the people that you're working for don't want

1363
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 3: what you want, they don't care about what you do,

1364
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 3: and they don't read it, and they don't read it.

1365
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 3: That is and which is extremely important that I think that,

1366
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 3: like in any of those there's this wish and I

1367
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: remember this. I was talking to Megan Greenwell, who is

1368
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 3: my editor in chief at Deadspin, has a new book

1369
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,439
Speaker 3: about private equity called Bad Company that is very good

1370
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 3: and I recommend it's.

1371
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: Just going to come on the show at some point. Goods.

1372
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 3: But we were talking about the experience of trying to

1373
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 3: convince the private equity concern that had bought was Gizmoto

1374
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: Media now it is Geomedia and basically unrecognizable.

1375
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: Spanfeller Jim Spanfelder, bad.

1376
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: Guy on the question.

1377
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 3: But he great had a hair though I hate to

1378
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 3: say it, but it's like it's amazing. Yep, it's got

1379
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: a quiff. Yeah, yes, anyway, he looks great. He's been

1380
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 3: getting by and his looks for years though. But we

1381
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 3: were trying to like go to them with the information

1382
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 3: that we had, which is like we're making more money

1383
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 3: than we're spending. People read this, These people comment on everything.

1384
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: These blogs get passed around. It's this many, you know,

1385
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 3: millions of unique readers for stuff. They just didn't give

1386
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 3: a shit. It wasn't a business they wanted to be in.

1387
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 3: And the difference with Defector and I hope that this

1388
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 3: is the case for you all at metal Arc too,

1389
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 3: because it is like as similar as something that is

1390
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 3: that much bigger and more popular can be that there

1391
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 3: is like you're doing the work that you want to

1392
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 3: do and you're doing it without somebody's hand in your

1393
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 3: pocket or trying to fucking ratitude you around in editorial wiz,

1394
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 3: and that is when you remove that interference from the equation,

1395
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 3: it feels as fun as it actually is.

1396
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so to get back to the misery

1397
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: of Mike Jordan and every tech executive and blogs that

1398
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: aren't run in the way that I think Roth is describing,

1399
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: I think that's all the time at work, Like the

1400
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: point of getting the money is to do the job

1401
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: that you want to do, and it is not the

1402
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: other way around. It is not to contort and develop

1403
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: some sort of content dysmorphia such that you've convinced that

1404
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: you're sucking good, that oh, this is what beauty is. Now,

1405
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: it's like, no, trust your own. We got into this

1406
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: because we have a sense of taste around what we

1407
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: want to do and what's good and what's bad. The

1408
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: more that we can actually earnestly believe and act on

1409
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: that is the whole reason to try and to try

1410
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: and engage with the market in whatever way we're allowed to.

1411
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 2: I just what pisses me off is I'm pretty sure

1412
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 2: that if you just did everything with discussing, it would

1413
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 2: be insanely profitable because no one's fucking trying. So just

1414
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,919
Speaker 2: if you just did it at the broadsheet types, I'm

1415
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: sure that there are people who are desperate to have

1416
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,439
Speaker 2: Michael bob Ura or like tell them that the subway.

1417
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: Is many millions of people no accounting for tastes one.

1418
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 2: If instead of that it was someone entertaining, do you

1419
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: think that they would get scared or do you think

1420
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: they'd be like, Oh, I think that.

1421
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 3: There's I think that a lot of that stuff could

1422
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 3: be better or it could be different. I think the

1423
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 3: more important to me is the idea that like, you

1424
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 3: should be able to pick more widely what experiences, yes,

1425
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 3: and if that, you know, the Times isn't going to

1426
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 3: offer you. They could, you know, but The Times isn't

1427
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 3: going to offer you like, here's a version of the

1428
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: Daily where the guy doesn't sound medicated like or you know,

1429
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 3: some of these things that are just a different energy.

1430
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 3: Maybe try this out see if you like it that

1431
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 3: like it doesn't. It shouldn't be just one platform offering

1432
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 3: all of this stuff. But I do think that there's

1433
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 3: enough ways to enjoy things that like, you know, and

1434
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 3: the difference with sports, I mean, there's like ways to

1435
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 3: be a fan. Maybe you like to shout about legacy,

1436
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 3: or maybe you are somebody that likes to grind tape whatever.

1437
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 3: You're all working off the same text. Everybody fundamentally understands

1438
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 3: what they're talking about. There's just a lot of different

1439
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 3: ways to talk about it. It should be a healthier

1440
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 3: ecosystem that it is for that reason.

1441
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: So this is dating me a bit, But there's a

1442
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 2: crazy thing. They already tried this with the tech media

1443
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: and it worked really well. There used to be like

1444
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 2: seven different tech columnists. You kind of used to have

1445
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 2: like Dwight Silverman over at the Houston Chronicle, I think,

1446
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: or Dallas Morning News. Forgive me, Dwight. You had like

1447
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 2: hiwath Bray over at the Globe, you had Eric Benderoff

1448
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: over at the Tribune. You had all of these, Like

1449
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: David Pogue, one of the most well known tech reporters,

1450
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: cut of Steve and every week, and he would sometimes

1451
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 2: just be like, yeah, I tried in u E reader.

1452
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 2: It sucked. Yeah, it's my first interaction with him actually,

1453
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 2: and it was like people didn't read David Poe. He

1454
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 2: was kind of like your weird uncle and then had

1455
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 2: some stuff that happened which made you really potentially not

1456
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 2: like him. But nevertheless, there was a level of entertainment

1457
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: that came from these personal voices talking about something that

1458
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 2: was very personal to people that worked in the New

1459
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: York fucking time in major broadsheets. I just think that

1460
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 2: they've got safer, but I also wonder if that's not

1461
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 2: me just being kind or maybe they just fucking lazy. Yeah,

1462
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 2: this is a this is an in curious as well.

1463
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 3: Another ed point that has been instructive to me. This

1464
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 3: kind of like the row economy idea, and I've sort

1465
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: of I mean, it's hard to not spiral when you

1466
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 3: think about this, But like, what are you gaining by Like,

1467
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 3: you are getting some small savings by eliminating the tech

1468
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 3: columnists from Houston Chronicle from your ledger. You're not paying

1469
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 3: a guy ninety thousand dollars a year or whatever it is.

1470
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 2: These guys used to get paid shit tons of money.

1471
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that which there is that.

1472
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 2: No, but they used to get paid shit tons of

1473
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 2: money and they were on there for years.

1474
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 3: Yes, usually they were adding any sort of value to me.

1475
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 3: This is the bit that I don't get. Is like

1476
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 3: when you drain a company and kill it and you

1477
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 3: get some money from it. The private equity model of

1478
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 3: basically like piling a bunch of debt onto something. You

1479
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 3: take from this company what is valuable, You leave them

1480
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 3: with the debt.

1481
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: In a few years they go away, So.

1482
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 3: You have all this money now that might otherwise have

1483
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,719
Speaker 3: gone into that company. We can understand that that's bad

1484
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 3: and that it's unfair to.

1485
01:08:58,920 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: A lot of people.

1486
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 3: Also, what do you do with that money? This is

1487
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:03,799
Speaker 3: the bit that I've always sort of wondered about.

1488
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: Like, now it's Jim's is it? You?

1489
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 3: Just like you book nothing fucking chainsmokers to play the weekend.

1490
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 2: I must be clear, the answer is nothing. So is

1491
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 2: that it sits.

1492
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: Theres some like transparency into the.

1493
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 2: Scene of super wealthy. It's nothing, It's absolutely fucking nothing,

1494
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 2: so they sits on it.

1495
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,839
Speaker 1: So, by the way, this is where again the metaphor

1496
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: sort of becomes the reality.

1497
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 2: Right.

1498
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,839
Speaker 1: So sports is currently grappling with the influx of private equity.

1499
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: The leagues are now passing rules to allow shares of

1500
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: teams to be bought by private equity firms, and part

1501
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 1: of the the the looming sort of storm cloud here

1502
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: is the idea that actually, as with content, as with

1503
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: grocery stores, as with any industry, there's a conflict between

1504
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 1: what that thing is meant to do and it's actual

1505
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: standard of success and growth profit. Right. So, the whole

1506
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: idea of like the part of sports that is seemingly

1507
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: elemental is here are goal is to win. Yeah, everybody's

1508
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: trying to win. If when that breaks.

1509
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 2: That winning isn't always profitable.

1510
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: Right, So well, and that breakage between winning and profit,

1511
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: that's where you are inviting a corruption that has been

1512
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: visited upon every other thing in American life that we've already.

1513
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 3: Out yeah, and this is I mean true as a fan,

1514
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 3: but I think that anybody that participates in the culture

1515
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 3: in any way, like there's you don't have to know

1516
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 3: what the Pittsburgh Pirates specifically are like to understand that, like,

1517
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 3: this is a team that is owned by a billionaire,

1518
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 3: that is part of the system that is.

1519
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: Created and to explain for the listeners who don't listen to.

1520
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 1: Spoil Pittsburgh Pirates are a baseball.

1521
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 2: And also but specifically, the fact that they can be

1522
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 2: a bad team and make a shit ton of money.

1523
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, how so, and probably welcome to jump in when

1524
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 3: I get anything wrong. A couple of things built a

1525
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: great ballpark with some public money. It is a great

1526
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 3: place to go and hang out and drink beers. Even

1527
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 3: if the team is bad, which the team reliably has

1528
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 3: been for more than a decade. The owner has a

1529
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 3: lot of money, enough money to buy a baseball team,

1530
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 3: which you need. This is another area where private equity

1531
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 3: and then I think eventually sovereign wealth is.

1532
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 1: Going to be is also being legislated in buy shares good. Yeah,

1533
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: and so that's like all international sport is all that.

1534
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: It just hasn't really happened in the United States, but

1535
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: it's coming.

1536
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 3: I mean a team like the Cowboys are the Giants

1537
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 3: their valuation based on what the number is. It's like

1538
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 3: no person could buy it. It's too many billions of

1539
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 3: dollars like whatever, like Elon or Jeff Bezos could buy it,

1540
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 3: but they're not going to.

1541
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 2: Because they must to buy the Pirates.

1542
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 3: This is I considered calling him out on that, like

1543
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 3: being like you coward by the A's like, prove it,

1544
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 3: prove how smart you are.

1545
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 1: E was like, I'm a fan of the Eagles and.

1546
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 3: The Steelers, and I was just like a classic, Like

1547
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 3: it's like somehow like you took a Hillary Clinton line

1548
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 3: and you made it soundly.

1549
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 2: They called me the bus of tech anyway.

1550
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 3: So here's how the Pirates make it work. Extremely it

1551
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 3: is not expensive to run a major league baseball team

1552
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 3: if you don't pay anybody, but you can papers get

1553
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 3: there is no salary floor. So the product that you

1554
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 3: put out there basically needs to be at least to

1555
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 3: be minimally competitive, like you can't have people like coming

1556
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 3: to your house and burning it down. But minimally competitive

1557
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 3: for the Pirates means losing one hundred out of one

1558
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty two games basically every year. The other

1559
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 3: way that you make money off of it, though, is

1560
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: like there's TV deals that money.

1561
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: Is getting paid.

1562
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 3: There's like you know, parking, there's concessions, There's a million

1563
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 3: different ways to make a little bit of money at

1564
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 3: a time. And then the big thing that makes it

1565
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 3: work is that because this structure that baseball has a

1566
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 3: revenue sharing system, so that basically this is money coming

1567
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 3: from the biggest It is socialism for rich.

1568
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,599
Speaker 1: Guys, exclusively for rich guys, because it is.

1569
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 3: It is only within that system. So a team like

1570
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 3: the Yankees that makes all this money and plays in

1571
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 3: a big market has this huge TV deal that the

1572
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 3: Pirates could never get us Pittsburgh is so much smaller

1573
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 3: than New York. They pay money into a system that

1574
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 3: it is then reallocated to the Pirates. The idea being

1575
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 3: that this would create some sort of parody because that

1576
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 3: money is supposed to be used on either major league

1577
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 3: payroll or player development, or there's ways that you can

1578
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 3: use it too that are more responsible than others, like

1579
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 3: using it to pay a big league ball player is good.

1580
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 3: Using it to develop a player development program that teaches

1581
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 3: a raw high school kid that you drafted how to

1582
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 3: throw a pitch that he doesn't know how to throw

1583
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 3: that is also extremely cost effective and works.

1584
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: Good teams do both. The Dodgers do both. You don't

1585
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: have to do neither.

1586
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 2: You don't have to do anything, And yes you don't,

1587
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: because you can just sit there and the money comes in.

1588
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: Right, And I think about it also not merely because

1589
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 1: I think there's yes, there's a philosophical approach that is

1590
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 1: overarching here. There's also just like the edge cases of

1591
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: like you have a choice. Yeah, you can resign the

1592
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: player that will make your fans not merely happy, but

1593
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 1: feel on some level fulfilled as part of the allegedly

1594
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: civic trust here right right, you got a star player

1595
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: that's about to ask for more money, and everybody wants

1596
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: to keep them, and in fact it makes sense for

1597
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: you to keep them because your goal here is to

1598
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: win a title. Instead, what you will do is let

1599
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,440
Speaker 1: him go because he is now too rich for your blood.

1600
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: And you don't need business.

1601
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: You don't need him to make the margins exactly. Yes,

1602
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: that in fact you could still make without them. That's

1603
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: exactly the point. The margin thing is to me, like

1604
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: it's and this is the sort of short term thinking

1605
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: that you see.

1606
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: Attack a lot, which is why I brought it up.

1607
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 3: Now, if you think of the business that you have

1608
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 3: as something that you're gonna own for the rest of

1609
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 3: your life and then you're gonna leave to your kids,

1610
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,560
Speaker 3: now that's a little bit perverse. I don't think you

1611
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 3: should necessarily be able to do that, But if you're

1612
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 3: thinking of the business that way, the free agent that

1613
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 3: you resign is essential to the survival of your business

1614
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 3: because it shows people that are fans now that you

1615
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 3: care about them and you care about the team in

1616
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 3: the future. And when those people bring their kids to

1617
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,560
Speaker 3: the games, they're gonna be watching that player at the

1618
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 3: end of his career. They're gonna So that idea of

1619
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 3: like any of this stuff being built to last in

1620
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,879
Speaker 3: any meaningful way, I think is gone.

1621
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 2: And I think that and it's everywhere. The reason I

1622
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 2: wanted you to go through that is I think listeners

1623
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 2: really understand the basics of like how you have tech

1624
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 2: companies that will do as little as possible to keep

1625
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 2: the service running to make the most amount of money.

1626
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 2: I think it's important for people to know this is everywhere.

1627
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 2: The rot economy is everywhere. It's insane. How endemic it

1628
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 2: is the baseball though, you could just run a shit

1629
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 2: team forever.

1630
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 1: Yep.

1631
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 2: Well look at Google. Not to make it the whole

1632
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,799
Speaker 2: thing about tech, but it's like, it is very fucking

1633
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 2: depressing seeing how these people work. But I think that

1634
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 2: one thing will work in tech that doesn't work as

1635
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 2: often in sports but does a bit is attacking the owners.

1636
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:40,719
Speaker 1: Yep.

1637
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,599
Speaker 2: Because Dick Mondfort from the Rockies, who I email with,

1638
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 2: he he has stopped responding to me.

1639
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: Oh really, I think it was people email with dick

1640
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 1: Man for like, if you email him, he'll email you back. Yeah.

1641
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 2: He didn't email me back about JoJo's bizarre adventure, which

1642
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: I think was what broke Hi.

1643
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: Maybe a bridge too far. Okay, well he might not

1644
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: be ready the.

1645
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: Delightful show, but you can't really humiliate someone like that.

1646
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 2: But the pressure on onners has changed things in the past,

1647
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 2: like they don't want to be despised by an entire town.

1648
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: I don't think enough people know who Sundapaeshio Salonment is,

1649
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 2: and I think the more people who learn and mock

1650
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 2: them because they are so rich, they don't have anything

1651
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 2: other than the names, and unlike sports teams, they don't

1652
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 2: have anything cool.

1653
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: So I think one difference with sports than tech is,

1654
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: in fact the broad cultural popularity inherited over generations, such

1655
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 1: that you are invested in this team in a way

1656
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 1: that you could never really be invested in the same

1657
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: way when it comes to even the device you use

1658
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: all of the time.

1659
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1660
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: So I've talked to owners about this, NBA owners who

1661
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:46,720
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, my day job as multi billionaire is

1662
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: like to obsess over the price of like polypropylene or

1663
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: some other you know, material that I monetize. None, none

1664
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 1: of that is as resonant. Is as much of a

1665
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: pain point in my life as the guy on the

1666
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: street who is actively booing me when he sees me.

1667
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 2: But imagine if they fucking like them, yeah, like a

1668
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 2: beloved owner, Like if the product was really good. People

1669
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 2: used to fucking love Google.

1670
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 3: So the Mets have a great example of this, and

1671
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 3: that they are owned by what you can only call

1672
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 3: a prolific financial criminal, Steve Cohen. Like it's just a

1673
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 3: guy that was banned by the SEC from trading because

1674
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 3: of all the insider trading that he Oh my god, yeah,

1675
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 3: I know, and guy kind of friends, I know, right,

1676
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 3: they're mad at him, they're jealous.

1677
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 1: I would love I would love FRANCESSA on this topic, gahly,

1678
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: who is that going over his art collection? Meal, it's

1679
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: a lot of Modigliani's, you know, and I don't like him,

1680
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 1: you know too skinny. Uh but the we Lovegliani jokes here?

1681
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 2: Also who is that?

1682
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: He is a sculptor? Okay, and they are very skinny,

1683
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 1: but the uh Brakouzi guy but uh so.

1684
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 3: Cohen though, like bought the Mets as the team that

1685
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 3: he was obsessed with as a fan as a kid,

1686
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 3: and basically this is what he's gonna do with the

1687
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 3: rest of his life. He went and he took a

1688
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 3: team that was owned by a fail family.

1689
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: Not just fail sends.

1690
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 3: There's a whole multi generational thing, and did the stuff

1691
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 3: that I was talking about in terms of like basically

1692
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:18,679
Speaker 3: investing in the little things that make an organization work better.

1693
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 3: In this case, it's people that help your pitchers pitch better,

1694
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 3: coaches that actually help in an individual way, and then

1695
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 3: also executives, executives that like understand that these are people

1696
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 3: and that they need to be sort of like treated

1697
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 3: as such. This is like the story such as it's

1698
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 3: told about how the Mets managed to outbid the Yankees

1699
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 3: for wan Soto. Part of it was that like the

1700
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,679
Speaker 3: Yankees were dicks to him, they were dicks to his family.

1701
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 2: And Wansto is an extremely good player.

1702
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 1: You have not been you know, he's been a little

1703
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: bit of a disaployment. But he was paid the biggest

1704
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: contract in the history of sports.

1705
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 2: Yes, and so.

1706
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 3: It's like you have to pay the money, but then

1707
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 3: also if you want to win that person over the

1708
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 3: generational talent that you give that amount of money. You

1709
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 3: and the Mets case, it was basically like they have

1710
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 3: a really nice family room for the kids with the

1711
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 3: players at the stadium.

1712
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:05,839
Speaker 1: Which is not something that he did ownership.

1713
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so Steve Cohen, who is a guy that

1714
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 3: is like the definition of a class enemy of mine.

1715
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 3: Everything that I want this country to be. He is

1716
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 3: in the fucking way of it being that. And yet

1717
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 3: he does own my.

1718
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 1: Favorite baseball team, and he has done a pretty good

1719
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: job hiring pitching coaches. And at some point you like.

1720
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 3: This is all true. You know, it's all true, it's real.

1721
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 3: You can soften your opinion on the guy for that reason.

1722
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And Steve Cohen authentically is also a guy who

1723
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 1: like listens to sports talk radio. Yeah, and he is

1724
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: not a fake fan, is a real fan as.

1725
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 3: Well, and not even in like always the most flattering ways,

1726
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,600
Speaker 3: like he sometimes will get on Twitter and like recommend

1727
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: some like lower tier Mets prospect guy and it's like

1728
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 3: talk to your own fucking prospect guys, dude, Like they

1729
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 3: definitely know more than this guy does.

1730
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 2: So I hate to wrap it up that. I'm just

1731
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 2: gonna say, Steve Cohen, if you're listening, come on better

1732
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: off line, let's talk about the Matt.

1733
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 1: Can I say one more thing about Steve Cohen?

1734
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

1735
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 3: So, this is why I think he is game and

1736
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 3: why I think he will be on on this. Do

1737
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 3: you know about Steve Cohen? This is more for public

1738
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,799
Speaker 3: because I know do you know about his guy Fiertti fixation?

1739
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,799
Speaker 3: Who is that guy Fierti Diner's drives?

1740
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 2: Sorry, I've just never heard it said like that.

1741
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: That's how he says, oh, guy Fieri. I'll say it

1742
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:17,480
Speaker 1: the way that it's television.

1743
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's yes, I think that's fair for Europeans. Five

1744
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 2: thousand calorie males, Yes, and sauce. He looks like smash mouth.

1745
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a crazy he looks like everybody from smash

1746
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: Mouth made into one smashed into one. It is. In

1747
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: factly no one has resembled the term smash mouth more

1748
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 1: than Guy. But so Diners, drivings, and dives really is

1749
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: good though, yeah, never eaten a good guy anyway, But

1750
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 1: so the show is him driving around the country going

1751
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: to someplace eating the hot dog and be like, that's

1752
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,799
Speaker 1: that's crazy, brother, that's a crazy hot dog. Steve Cohen,

1753
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 1: super fan of the show, appears in a couple of

1754
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: episodes as a diner and kind of like a weird

1755
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,599
Speaker 1: I saw one just like, yeah, there's one in Los

1756
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 1: Angeles of him just eating the Luganiga sausage and he's

1757
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: not like a handsome man. He's just like a guy.

1758
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 3: But he's at some place. He doesn't have any lines.

1759
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 3: But then he did apparently pay Guy Fieri one hundred

1760
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 3: thousand dollars to hang out with him for a day

1761
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 3: and go to all of his favorite restaurants, like the

1762
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 3: hot dog places.

1763
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: In Connecticut, And that's exactly see to me, that is

1764
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 1: actually like, that's an inkling of that person might do

1765
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: a good job bending a baseball team. There's a follow

1766
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 1: up episode that maybe I need to do on my

1767
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: show where I find out who's actually good at being rich?

1768
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I would please have me on it sounds amazing.

1769
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 4: That actually sounds like it incredible Always guys that are

1770
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 4: good at being owners. Honestly, it's just not being unhappy

1771
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,799
Speaker 4: about it, right, And a through line that you established

1772
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 4: you woudn't.

1773
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: Tell jim Irsay, you wouldn't tell anyone to be more

1774
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: like jim Irsay rip. And yet like jim Irsay, spent

1775
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 1: the last years of his life with like a touring

1776
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: band of notable blues musicians, traveling venues across the country

1777
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 1: and doing the worst versions of Neil Young's songs you've

1778
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: ever heard, and he.

1779
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 2: Would sing it rocks.

1780
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 1: It's great. I have noticed. I wish more regret to

1781
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 1: confirm it rocks. Yeah.

1782
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 2: So we wrap up here, and I will say another

1783
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: thing about all of this is the too oneful minium

1784
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 2: here with actually Danealds was like we all fucking love

1785
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 2: our jobs and were truly, like deeply into them. My

1786
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 2: talk to Daniel about random fucking production stuff is it

1787
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 2: joy to do? And I think that that is actually

1788
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 2: the real solution to a lot of these problems is

1789
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,120
Speaker 2: give people who actually give a fuck money and let

1790
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 2: them do cool shit. David, where can people find you?

1791
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 5: Uh?

1792
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 3: I mean, now the pressure's on because we already know

1793
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 3: that Ed is very critical of my promos. Defector dot

1794
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 3: com is the website. It is a prescription site, but

1795
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 3: you can read a few articles for free and decide

1796
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 3: if you like it. The podcast they do there is

1797
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 3: the Distraction. The podcasts they do about Hallmark movies is

1798
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 3: It's Christmas Down.

1799
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you like.

1800
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:49,879
Speaker 3: Pablo and Ed, you can hear them on the Distraction.

1801
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 3: Neither one of these guys has been on the Hallmark

1802
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:53,919
Speaker 3: podcast yet. But it's a long it's a long process.

1803
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 3: It's far, yes, indeed, and then I don't know the

1804
01:22:57,360 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 3: blue sky I guess David.

1805
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 1: J Rothblo Pablo Tory finds out as the show. It

1806
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 1: is on YouTube and it's a podcast, and I have

1807
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: a substack. It's at www dot Pablo dot show. And

1808
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: I aspire to uh talk about some Hallmark movies with

1809
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: a guy who's only killed one of two turtles that he's.

1810
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 2: So far you know, God killed that. But and I'm

1811
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 2: at ZiT Tron. You can find me on a podcast. Yeah,

1812
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 2: God killed that.

1813
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:27,839
Speaker 1: My turtle.

1814
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 2: It's like, well godfriended me. Anyway, I'm at Zitron. You've

1815
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 2: been listening to the podcast Better Offline. We talk about

1816
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,679
Speaker 2: technology or some such business. Wonderful producer of course, Daniel

1817
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 2: Goodman here in the beautiful New York City, Nevada. Please

1818
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 2: please subscribe to my newsletters. Well where's your head? What's

1819
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 2: great is this is gonna end. You're gonna hit exactly

1820
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 2: the same ship again, and you're gonna email me and

1821
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 2: say re record it.

1822
01:23:53,240 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 6: No, don't do it. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

1823
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:06,800
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

1824
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 2: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

1825
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T

1826
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 2: T O S O W s ki dot com. You

1827
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 2: can email me at easy at better offline dot com

1828
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 2: or visit better offline dot com to find more podcast

1829
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 2: links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend

1830
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 2: you go to chat dot Where's youreaed dot at to

1831
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 2: visit the discord, and go to our slash.

1832
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 6: Better Offline to check out our reddit.

1833
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.

1834
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 5: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For

1835
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:38,880
Speaker 5: more from cool Zone Media.

1836
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 2: Visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us.

1837
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 5: Out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1838
01:24:45,400 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 5: get your podcasts. The whole Spanish