WEBVTT - Wagners in Custody 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.440 Welcome to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:10.039 and Katie Studios. On the morning of April twenty second, 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.120 twenty sixteen, the small town of piked In, Ohio who 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:17.200 woke to some horrifying news spread out across four homes, 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.640 all within a few miles of each other, Eight members 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.400 of a local family, the Rodents, were found murdered. They 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.720 were shot execution style in their beds, the victims of 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:31.360 a methodical killing spree. It was an unprecedented and confounding crime, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.479 one that would launch the largest homicide investigation in Ohio's history. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.920 Frustration, anger, sadness, emotions are still raw at Pike County. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.400 Most of the people in this town say, whoever shot 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.879 and killed eight members of the Rodent family need to 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:45.680 be found soon. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:46.760 I hope that the. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.920 UH now enforcene in this area apprehend each and everyone. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.440 These aren't peoples, these or monsters. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:05.240 Episode two, Wagner's in Custody. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a TV 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.640 producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.319 we produced television series and documentaries. Here's Stephanie for me. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.200 This case was incredibly disturbing and personally really hard to 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.920 stop thinking about eight people from the exact same family, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.840 all killed in one night, but at four different locations. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:30.400 That's extremely strategic. The three of us have been following 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.320 this case very closely for years. Here's producer Jeff Shane 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.360 talking to Jodi Barr, an investigative journalists who have reported 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.960 for TV station Fox nineteen and Cincinnati. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.320 You're not, as a journalist, easily shocked, but like this 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.480 was shocking, probably right, Yeah, it was shocking. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.400 I would say it was more confusion because on the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.440 typical murder, or you know, a breaking news story, you 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.520 can roll the events in your mind. But this is 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.600 this isn't the typical murder, you know, where there's one 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.520 or two victims of a single house and you know 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.800 the bad guy took off. You know, this was something 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.640 way outside the norm. You're just thinking, what is going 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:07.200 on here? 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.920 This? None of this makes sense, But you knew. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.200 It had to be something big because you've got eight 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:17.000 members of one family targeted, murdered in their sleep, in 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.880 their homes, and the killers seemingly vanished. We didn't know 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.400 the pieces, we didn't know how to put it together. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.160 There was no information coming out about these murders, about motives, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.360 Even the family members who were in direct communication with 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:34.240 law enforcement, even they weren't being told anything. I mean, 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.600 call it good investigative work, and you know you hold 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.520 your cards close to the chest as an investigator. Maybe 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.040 that's what it was, but you know, from the outside 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.200 looking in, it was almost like law enforcement didn't have 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:46.440 a clue at that point in time. 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.880 An overwhelming amount of tips have been pouring into police, 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:52.359 but nor rest have been made. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.960 Attorney General Mike Dwine is saying that over two hundred 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.680 investigators and police officers have contributed so far to this 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:00.480 on going. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.919 Investment, and he's being offered, but the killer has disappeared. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.120 As the investigation dragged on, rumors ran rampant in the 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.200 close knit community, and journalists like Jodi Barr started digging deeper. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.440 This did seem to be a very tactical, a very 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.000 clean sort of you know, when you think of an 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.120 assassin doing a hit like you see. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:22.560 In the movies. 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.280 You started to wonder if there wasn't something to that 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.160 because of just how seemingly clean these killings were. I mean, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.760 how does one person or a group of people hit 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.880 four separate homes kill eight different people seemingly leave absolutely 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.320 no trace of any evidence. 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:43.640 What does this mean? What is going on here? 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.680 But after I started having conversations with the Rodent family 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.360 and you start talking to some people who were very 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.880 close to the victims in this case, at least very 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.400 close acquaintances, you started to realize that, you know that 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.880 there were some people that even I had conversations with 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.960 than Pike County, who I knew they knew more than 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.120 what they were telling me. I knew they knew more 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:09.080 about what happened that morning, and they knew more about 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.400 the circumstances surrounding the Rodents that could have led to 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.200 these murders. But they would not tell it. And I 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.160 don't know if it was because they were afraid or 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.680 they didn't want to believe what they believed happened. But 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.120 all we kept hearing from the Rodan family, from the 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.440 people around there, and they were phrasing it this way 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.040 is that it was locals. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.159 What did that mean? We didn't know. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.640 By the summer of twenty eighteen, the investigation had entered 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.560 its second year and piked in. Residents like Barbara were 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.159 becoming increasingly scared. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:50.520 It's an extremely sinister thing that occurred. It's like a movie. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.720 When I was young, people got along and you know, 0:04:56.040 --> 0:05:00.960 it was we left our doors unlocked. It was. It 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:07.640 was that trusting and relaxed in Pike County, so we 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.479 could believe something like that what happen here. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:12.680 And it was. 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:19.680 It was especially terrifying because no one knew who did 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:25.000 it or why. And you don't know if your family's next. 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.760 It's just a grizzly scene in a grisly situation. 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.400 If you are fearful, arm yourself. If you feel that 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.640 you need to protect yourself or family, do so. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.520 On November thirteenth, twenty eighteen, everything was said to change. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.400 Here's Governor of Ohio, Mike Dwine, then Attorney General. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:48.520 Well, good afternoon. 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.960 We promised that the day would come when the rest 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.719 would be made in the Pike County masters. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:57.320 Today's that day. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.599 In a series of arrests that sent shock waves through 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.680 the insulated community, six members of a local family, the Wagners, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:05.880 were taken into custody. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:11.640 Up your hands all right, brung up whack hollar. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.120 Forty seven year old Billy Wagner is the patriarch of 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.320 the Wagner family and was arrested near Lexington, Kentucky, in 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.960 a horse trailer that was pulled over. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.800 Go down your name and Hunterback and hungerbuy. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.240 Angela Wagner is Billy's wife and matriarch of the Wagner family. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.719 The forty eight year old was arrested at their home 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:33.800 near Piketon. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:39.480 Ohioha Angela Wayner in the car twenty one copy thirteen 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:40.080 thirty one. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.520 Angela and Billy's two sons, George Wagner and Jake Wagner, 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.920 were arrested together during a traffic stop. George is twenty 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.880 seven and Jake was twenty six. Seventy six year old 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.560 Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was arrested at the family's 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:01.080 horse farm, the Flying w Angela Wagner mother, sixty five 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.880 year old Rita Joe Newcomb, was arrested at her home, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.400 while six members of the Wagner family were arrested in 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.239 connection with the crime. Billy, Angela, George, and Jake Wagner 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.720 were charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.120 It deals about the arrests of four people in the 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.720 murders of eight members of the road in family. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:23.440 Back in April twenty sixteen. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.240 Mike Allen, a criminal defense attorney and legal commentator for 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.160 Fox nineteen and Cincinnati, was covering the story when the 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:30.679 news broke. 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.280 All the arrests happened within minutes of each other, and 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.680 that tells me that the BCI, the Ohio Bureau of 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:43.280 Criminal Identification, who was in charge of this investigation, they 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.160 know what they're doing and they wanted to make sure 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.800 that they affected these arrests without any kind of problems 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.680 or tipping anybody off, so they had that thing down 0:07:53.720 --> 0:08:00.000 pretty tight. You've got four people charged in the murders themselves, 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.640 and that's capital murder in the state of Ohio that 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:09.280 does have the death penalty as a possible penalty in 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.040 a case like this, so it is death penalty case. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.960 How rare is it to have multiple capital murder cases going. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.720 I haven't seen multiple four people up for capital murder 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:20.920 in Ohio before. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:21.400 You know what. 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.320 And I've been in the system for over fifty years, 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.880 and I mean the most I've seen were two co 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.320 defendants being tried for capital murder from the same set 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.679 of facts, but never four. So that is extremely rare 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:41.079 that you got for people. For defendants facing the death penalty. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.920 The charges for the two other family members were less severe. 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.520 Grandmother Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was charged with obstruction 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:57.640 of justice and perjury. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Newcombe, was 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.560 charged with forgery, perjury, and obstruction of justice. But to 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.760 Mike Allen, one charge brought against the alleged trigger pullers 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:06.800 makes one thing clear. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.760 They're also charged with conspiracy engaging in a pattern of 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:15.040 corrupt activity, which means that they all work together on this. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.240 I think it's obvious, at least to the prosecutors and 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.680 the investigators that this thing was nobody freelancing. They were 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:28.040 possibly all operating together tampering with evidence. That kind of 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.920 speaks for itself. I mean, you know, once they knew 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:36.160 that they were the focus of the investigation, perhaps they 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:37.560 did something with the evidence. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.360 We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:54.840 back in a moment. We needed to know more about 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.240 the Rodents and the accused, the Wagners. We also wanted 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.080 to be mpiped in to learn about the town. So Stephanie, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:02.600 Jeff and I flew to Ohio. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:12.000 There was this extremely eerie vibe to the town. There 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.760 definitely was a sense that something very big was happening 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.320 in real time. It almost felt it felt a little dangerous. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.440 I think eeriness, she said, is the best word, like 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.360 just something was not right. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.000 Yeah, and it's not uncommon. It was a perfect American 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.680 small town, right, there's one diner, there's not a movie theater. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.600 So again, small insulated. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.360 And you know, we just when we just started trying 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.080 to go door to door to meet anyone who could 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:41.480 tell us about the road and family. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.720 I would say every single person we spoke to legitimately 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:46.960 invited us inside and could not have been lovelier. 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.800 There also was the experience of knocking on doors knowing 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.520 very well people are there. There was smoke coming out 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.520 of the chimney. We physically saw the curtains be closed, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.640 and certain people ndstandably didn't want to speak to us, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:10.480 but those who did, they were so welcoming. We reached 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.920 out to journalist Jeff Winkler, who was doing research on 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:15.160 the Wagner family. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:16.160 For me personally. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.520 When I first got an idea of how their ownents 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.520 lived and you know, who was related to who and whatnot, 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.160 I think I originally had the sense that the Wagoners 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.440 were in the same sort of position in terms of 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:37.280 property and and and perhaps financial situation will not. But 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.200 the Wagoners, I was rather surprised to learn that they had, 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:46.880 you know, a huge farm. They'd been running various farm 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.480 businesses on this huge bit of land or landlords. And 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.800 there were there was something of a sort of sort 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.440 of a family, if you will, in the area. And 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.120 you know, there were people that they we spoke with 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.840 that had some very open thoughts and loving thoughts about 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:07.320 the family. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.080 In all this, we couldn't help wonder how could this 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.199 esteemed piked In family allegedly be responsible for Ohio's most 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:22.960 horrific murder. It seemed like everyone had an opinion. Here's 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.760 Andreie Montgomery, a piked In resident. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.800 When the Wagners were arrested, you had your fifty to fifty. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.160 You had people that said, yes, I knew that they 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.760 did that, and then you've got people that say, there's 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:34.040 no way those people did that. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.240 But we wanted to get the story for ourselves, to 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.520 talk to those who actually knew the people accused of 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.720 carrying out these ruthless murders. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.280 Hello, Hi, Dorey, It's Jeff Shane calling Hi. 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:49.719 Hi. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:50.880 How are you is now a good time. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.160 Yeah, this is Deray Mcalvy. She's Billy Wagner's cousin and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:56.439 she grew up with the Wagners. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:58.120 Were you close with Billy. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.360 Billy was quite a bit younger than me. 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.040 I was about eleven years old when Billy was born, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.040 but I was raised with him, and we had. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.319 A whole lot of fun. It was so much fun. 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.880 We all bred horses, and we lived in Ohio and 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.760 it was beautiful and it snowed in the wintertime, and 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.600 it was beautiful in the summer, and we just had 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:17.160 so much fun. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:18.160 It was unbelievable. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.360 He was like a really good dad, right, like a 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.199 hard working just like sturdy, like good person, right. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.600 All for his family. M hmm, all for his family. 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.120 Dere's depiction of her aunt, Frederica Wagner was just as glowing. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.199 I spent my summers with my aunt Frederica. 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.040 It was awesome because we rode horses, we rode ponies, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.120 did all kinds of awesome stuff. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.640 I've heard the nicest things about her that she was 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.360 like an angel in that town. 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.880 She had to have been an angel in that town 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.000 because what I seen for her, what she did for 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:57.520 the community. She built a church for the community. She 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:03.280 financed the church for the community. She loves people, she 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:04.640 loves children. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.240 But we were curious what did Deray think about the 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:09.520 charges against her family. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.360 Our family joke is that there's no way that Betty 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:18.640 Crocker and the Dobe boys could ever go to an 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.800 extreme of murder. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.240 It's not within their capabilities. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:31.600 They love animals and they love people, and they are 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.600 really good at being resilient. And if you look up 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:43.400 the word Hillbilly and you really research that word, they 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.280 were very resilient in taking care of their family. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.440 Somebody did it, but it wasn't Now. 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.520 To get more information on twenty seven year old George 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.000 and twenty six year old Jake Wagner, Angela and Billy 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:05.160 Wagner's sons, we reached out to Christina Howard. Christina's sister, Tabitha, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:10.080 was married to George Wagner. The pair later divorced. Christina 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.880 spoke with Stephanie Leidecker about the time she spent with 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:13.800 the Wagner family. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.320 My sister spent a lot of time over at George's 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.760 house before they got married. She was pretty much living 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.640 with them at the time before she got married, and 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.800 then after she got married, she straight, you know, moved 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.160 in with them, and I used to go over there 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.560 to their house every now and again, you know. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.800 And did he seem like a nice guy? 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.040 What was his demeanor like? 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.040 He was funny. He was always cracking jokes and stuff 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:41.680 all the time. 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.240 So I don't know much about Jake Wagner at all. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:45.480 What was he like as a kid. 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.080 He was actually really sweet as a kid. We got 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.280 along pretty good because you know, we just hung out 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.280 all the time, played video games, went outside. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:57.320 Was he shy? 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.280 He wasn't shy with me. He was a really nice kid. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.640 And well, growing up, my sisters were kind of bullies 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:10.040 to me and Taby she was dating George at the time, 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.160 and Tabby she would pick on me and Jake he 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.640 would take up for me, but like, hey, don't pick 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.200 on your little sister like that. What's mean and stuff. 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.200 Here's a Wagner family relative. She asked us not to 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.000 use her name, but was happy to talk to us 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.120 about the family. She remembers Angela Wagner as a caring 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.200 mother with a big heart. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.800 Angela was just so sweet, like she was the sweetest lady. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.160 I mean, anybody could ask her for help. I know 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.960 there was multiple times where there was just she had heard, 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.200 you know of Like there was a woman and her 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.440 daughter that was getting out of an abusive relationship and 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.440 Angela had just heard about it. She didn't know this lady, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.520 you know, she had no idea anything about her. She 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:00.880 just knew that this woman and her you know, needed help. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.080 The Angelos went and helped her get out of that. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.640 You know, she gave her place to stay, She made 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:11.280 sure that the daughter had clothes and suit and you know, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.320 she would always do stuff like that for people. 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.320 Everything we were hearing about the Wagner seemed at odds 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.760 with this image of the cold blooded killers accused of 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:26.560 murdering an entire family. But the deeper we dug, the 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:32.000 more secrets we began to find. Jeff continued speaking with 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.960 the same anonymous Wagner relative who speaks so closingly Evangela Wagner. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.919 As it turns out, not everyone in the Wagner family 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.560 has such a sterling reputation, and when the conversation shifts 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.840 to Billy Wagner, things take a turn. Here is the 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.080 Wagner relative's first hand account. 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.200 Do you know when she met Billy and like when 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.760 that when they got married and how like that relationship 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:53.960 started and progressed. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:18:01.120 Uh, yeah, that was. She has been with him for 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:06.280 something years, maybe longer, but towards he goes now, that's 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.160 a different Like I and my family we always kind 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.400 of thought sometime was like off with him. We never 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.720 actually never got to like connect with him in that way. 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.520 We always everybody always kind of knew that there was 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:22.640 something stranger that he was kind of he just had 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.800 this persona about him, like he was just a very 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:31.919 cold and just hateful person really is what I thought of. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.600 In anyways, he was just a very rough around me 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.520 as a guy. And when it comes to him and Angela, 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.879 I'm not sure really how the beginning of a relationship was, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.439 but I know towards the end, like before or you know, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.040 right after all this happened, he was just very controlling, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:57.200 very controlling. He She was afraid of him, extremely afraid 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:03.480 of him, as were the boys now, their oldest son George, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.320 him and his dad. They were kind of like the same. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.320 I just I don't believe that they're good people at all. 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.639 So what can you tell me about the relationship between 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:16.960 Angela and Billy Wagner? 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.720 I do know that Angela was, She was extremely She 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.919 was just afraid to leave, you know, she was afraid 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.480 to leave. She was terrified that if she did try 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.600 to leave, that he would find her, because he made 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.320 that very clear, you know, from what I've heard and 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.639 what her father had said, all multiplecasions like you know, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:34.520 you're not gonna leave. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.480 Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:56.359 in a moment. This account of Angela and Billy's relationship 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.639 piqued our curiosity, so we started poking around for more 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.359 and from about the Wagoners. Most of what we uncovered 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.840 had to do with grandmother Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.480 and what seemed to be some potentially questionable business practices. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.080 I followed up with journalist Jeff Winkler to find out more. 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.960 Rodrika Wagner was repeatedly referred to as a god fearing woman, 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.000 was running a nursing home and doing a lot of 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.200 community service and community care for people, but like the Wagers, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:30.560 had a lot of different sides. 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.159 To them exactly. And she had started a church as well, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.359 and she took underprivileged kids. If people needed groceries, she 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.919 brought them groceries. So there is all of that, and 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.679 then on the flip side, many other people say they 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.480 were very secretive. There's also allegations of for example, in 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.760 the nursing home, maybe some dishonest business and perhaps cheating 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.000 people who were at a disadvantage out of money. And 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.119 these are substantiated court documents. 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.200 Yeah, the longer we looked into it, the longer it 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.320 seemed like thens you know, apart from having property and 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.000 been there for a long time, they were wheeling and dealing. 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.960 And I think although they were sort of pillars of 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.720 the community and involved in the community, certainly I think 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.119 that sort of especially when you have that sort of 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:15.360 much to lose. 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:16.919 You get protective. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:24.160 Frederica Wagner had very much built the family business. Fredrika 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.040 Wagner was the one who kept the family business going, 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.600 and she kept the family and businesses on track. And uh, 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:32.880 you know, when you are building an empire, the last 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:34.840 thing you want to do is to see it fall. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.840 And they were working on their fourth generation of Wagner 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:44.800 uh dominance in the area. So I can definitely understand sort. 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:45.760 Of protectiveness of that. 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.760 And in those cases, you you know, maybe you close, 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:50.680 maybe you close. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.240 Ranks a little bit. You stick, you stick to kin. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:56.320 You know, blood is thicker than water. 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:03.879 As we talked to more people in the community, we 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.920 found that these rumblings about the Wagner's business practices had 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.280 been circulating for years, and somehowd the deep distrust of 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.160 the family and their once sterling reputation. Jeff got Barber's 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.240 thoughts about grandmother Frederica Wagner. 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.480 All I've ever heard about her is one I've heard 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.760 how wonderful she is, how generous she was. I never 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.600 heard a bad word about that woman. 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:32.920 But just you know, she knew what she was doing, 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:38.320 and she just did what she could do to keep 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.359 them from being guilty, to keep them from being found 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.320 guilty or from being arrested, you know. 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:46.720 What I mean. 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.320 Yeah, they seem like everyone was on the surface, like 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:51.600 everyone loved them, and then when this happens, all the 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.320 other dirt kind of starts coming out. 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.520 It's like I can see beneath that surface, you know, 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:01.639 I feel like I can see her heart. When I 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:06.399 look at her, I just see is just kind of 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:07.080 see evil. 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.320 But while Frederica Wagner may have been involved in some 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:19.000 questionable business dealings and to some accounts, Billy Wagner may 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.359 not have been the best husband. We still didn't know 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:27.800 what all this had to do with the Rodents. At 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.639