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Speaker 1: Welcome to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 1: and Katie Studios. On the morning of April twenty second,

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the small town of piked In, Ohio who

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Speaker 1: woke to some horrifying news spread out across four homes,

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Speaker 1: all within a few miles of each other, Eight members

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Speaker 1: of a local family, the Rodents, were found murdered. They

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Speaker 1: were shot execution style in their beds, the victims of

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Speaker 1: a methodical killing spree. It was an unprecedented and confounding crime,

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Speaker 1: one that would launch the largest homicide investigation in Ohio's history.

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Speaker 2: Frustration, anger, sadness, emotions are still raw at Pike County.

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Speaker 3: Most of the people in this town say, whoever shot

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Speaker 3: and killed eight members of the Rodent family need to

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Speaker 3: be found soon.

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Speaker 4: I hope that the.

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Speaker 5: UH now enforcene in this area apprehend each and everyone.

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Speaker 4: These aren't peoples, these or monsters.

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Speaker 1: Episode two, Wagner's in Custody. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a TV

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Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane,

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Speaker 1: we produced television series and documentaries. Here's Stephanie for me.

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Speaker 6: This case was incredibly disturbing and personally really hard to

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Speaker 6: stop thinking about eight people from the exact same family,

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Speaker 6: all killed in one night, but at four different locations.

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Speaker 6: That's extremely strategic. The three of us have been following

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Speaker 6: this case very closely for years. Here's producer Jeff Shane

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Speaker 6: talking to Jodi Barr, an investigative journalists who have reported

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Speaker 6: for TV station Fox nineteen and Cincinnati.

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Speaker 3: You're not, as a journalist, easily shocked, but like this

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Speaker 3: was shocking, probably right, Yeah, it was shocking.

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Speaker 7: I would say it was more confusion because on the

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Speaker 7: typical murder, or you know, a breaking news story, you

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Speaker 7: can roll the events in your mind. But this is

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Speaker 7: this isn't the typical murder, you know, where there's one

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Speaker 7: or two victims of a single house and you know

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Speaker 7: the bad guy took off. You know, this was something

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Speaker 7: way outside the norm. You're just thinking, what is going

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Speaker 7: on here?

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Speaker 4: This? None of this makes sense, But you knew.

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Speaker 7: It had to be something big because you've got eight

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Speaker 7: members of one family targeted, murdered in their sleep, in

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Speaker 7: their homes, and the killers seemingly vanished. We didn't know

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Speaker 7: the pieces, we didn't know how to put it together.

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Speaker 7: There was no information coming out about these murders, about motives,

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Speaker 7: Even the family members who were in direct communication with

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Speaker 7: law enforcement, even they weren't being told anything. I mean,

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Speaker 7: call it good investigative work, and you know you hold

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Speaker 7: your cards close to the chest as an investigator. Maybe

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Speaker 7: that's what it was, but you know, from the outside

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Speaker 7: looking in, it was almost like law enforcement didn't have

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Speaker 7: a clue at that point in time.

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Speaker 8: An overwhelming amount of tips have been pouring into police,

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Speaker 8: but nor rest have been made.

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Speaker 2: Attorney General Mike Dwine is saying that over two hundred

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Speaker 2: investigators and police officers have contributed so far to this

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Speaker 2: on going.

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Speaker 9: Investment, and he's being offered, but the killer has disappeared.

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Speaker 1: As the investigation dragged on, rumors ran rampant in the

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Speaker 1: close knit community, and journalists like Jodi Barr started digging deeper.

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Speaker 7: This did seem to be a very tactical, a very

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Speaker 7: clean sort of you know, when you think of an

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Speaker 7: assassin doing a hit like you see.

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Speaker 4: In the movies.

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Speaker 7: You started to wonder if there wasn't something to that

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Speaker 7: because of just how seemingly clean these killings were. I mean,

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Speaker 7: how does one person or a group of people hit

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Speaker 7: four separate homes kill eight different people seemingly leave absolutely

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Speaker 7: no trace of any evidence.

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Speaker 4: What does this mean? What is going on here?

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Speaker 7: But after I started having conversations with the Rodent family

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Speaker 7: and you start talking to some people who were very

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Speaker 7: close to the victims in this case, at least very

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Speaker 7: close acquaintances, you started to realize that, you know that

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Speaker 7: there were some people that even I had conversations with

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Speaker 7: than Pike County, who I knew they knew more than

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Speaker 7: what they were telling me. I knew they knew more

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Speaker 7: about what happened that morning, and they knew more about

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Speaker 7: the circumstances surrounding the Rodents that could have led to

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Speaker 7: these murders. But they would not tell it. And I

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Speaker 7: don't know if it was because they were afraid or

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Speaker 7: they didn't want to believe what they believed happened. But

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Speaker 7: all we kept hearing from the Rodan family, from the

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Speaker 7: people around there, and they were phrasing it this way

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Speaker 7: is that it was locals.

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Speaker 4: What did that mean? We didn't know.

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Speaker 1: By the summer of twenty eighteen, the investigation had entered

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Speaker 1: its second year and piked in. Residents like Barbara were

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Speaker 1: becoming increasingly scared.

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Speaker 10: It's an extremely sinister thing that occurred. It's like a movie.

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Speaker 10: When I was young, people got along and you know,

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Speaker 10: it was we left our doors unlocked. It was. It

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Speaker 10: was that trusting and relaxed in Pike County, so we

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Speaker 10: could believe something like that what happen here.

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Speaker 11: And it was.

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Speaker 10: It was especially terrifying because no one knew who did

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Speaker 10: it or why. And you don't know if your family's next.

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Speaker 12: It's just a grizzly scene in a grisly situation.

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Speaker 4: If you are fearful, arm yourself. If you feel that

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Speaker 4: you need to protect yourself or family, do so.

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Speaker 1: On November thirteenth, twenty eighteen, everything was said to change.

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Speaker 1: Here's Governor of Ohio, Mike Dwine, then Attorney General.

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Speaker 10: Well, good afternoon.

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Speaker 3: We promised that the day would come when the rest

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Speaker 3: would be made in the Pike County masters.

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Speaker 13: Today's that day.

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Speaker 1: In a series of arrests that sent shock waves through

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Speaker 1: the insulated community, six members of a local family, the Wagners,

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Speaker 1: were taken into custody.

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Speaker 9: Up your hands all right, brung up whack hollar.

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Speaker 1: Forty seven year old Billy Wagner is the patriarch of

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Speaker 1: the Wagner family and was arrested near Lexington, Kentucky, in

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Speaker 1: a horse trailer that was pulled over.

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Speaker 5: Go down your name and Hunterback and hungerbuy.

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Speaker 1: Angela Wagner is Billy's wife and matriarch of the Wagner family.

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Speaker 1: The forty eight year old was arrested at their home

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Speaker 1: near Piketon.

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Speaker 13: Ohioha Angela Wayner in the car twenty one copy thirteen

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Speaker 13: thirty one.

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Speaker 1: Angela and Billy's two sons, George Wagner and Jake Wagner,

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Speaker 1: were arrested together during a traffic stop. George is twenty

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Speaker 1: seven and Jake was twenty six. Seventy six year old

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Speaker 1: Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was arrested at the family's

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Speaker 1: horse farm, the Flying w Angela Wagner mother, sixty five

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Speaker 1: year old Rita Joe Newcomb, was arrested at her home,

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Speaker 1: while six members of the Wagner family were arrested in

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Speaker 1: connection with the crime. Billy, Angela, George, and Jake Wagner

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Speaker 1: were charged with eight counts of aggravated murder.

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Speaker 3: It deals about the arrests of four people in the

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Speaker 3: murders of eight members of the road in family.

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Speaker 4: Back in April twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Mike Allen, a criminal defense attorney and legal commentator for

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Speaker 1: Fox nineteen and Cincinnati, was covering the story when the

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Speaker 1: news broke.

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Speaker 5: All the arrests happened within minutes of each other, and

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Speaker 5: that tells me that the BCI, the Ohio Bureau of

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Speaker 5: Criminal Identification, who was in charge of this investigation, they

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Speaker 5: know what they're doing and they wanted to make sure

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Speaker 5: that they affected these arrests without any kind of problems

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Speaker 5: or tipping anybody off, so they had that thing down

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Speaker 5: pretty tight. You've got four people charged in the murders themselves,

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Speaker 5: and that's capital murder in the state of Ohio that

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Speaker 5: does have the death penalty as a possible penalty in

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Speaker 5: a case like this, so it is death penalty case.

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Speaker 1: How rare is it to have multiple capital murder cases going.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen multiple four people up for capital murder

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Speaker 1: in Ohio before.

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Speaker 3: You know what.

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Speaker 5: And I've been in the system for over fifty years,

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Speaker 5: and I mean the most I've seen were two co

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Speaker 5: defendants being tried for capital murder from the same set

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Speaker 5: of facts, but never four. So that is extremely rare

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Speaker 5: that you got for people. For defendants facing the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: The charges for the two other family members were less severe.

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Speaker 1: Grandmother Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was charged with obstruction

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Speaker 1: of justice and perjury. Angela Wagner's mother, Rita Newcombe, was

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Speaker 1: charged with forgery, perjury, and obstruction of justice. But to

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Speaker 1: Mike Allen, one charge brought against the alleged trigger pullers

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Speaker 1: makes one thing clear.

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Speaker 5: They're also charged with conspiracy engaging in a pattern of

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Speaker 5: corrupt activity, which means that they all work together on this.

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Speaker 5: I think it's obvious, at least to the prosecutors and

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Speaker 5: the investigators that this thing was nobody freelancing. They were

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Speaker 5: possibly all operating together tampering with evidence. That kind of

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Speaker 5: speaks for itself. I mean, you know, once they knew

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Speaker 5: that they were the focus of the investigation, perhaps they

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Speaker 5: did something with the evidence.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be

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Speaker 1: back in a moment. We needed to know more about

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Speaker 1: the Rodents and the accused, the Wagners. We also wanted

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Speaker 1: to be mpiped in to learn about the town. So Stephanie,

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Speaker 1: Jeff and I flew to Ohio.

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Speaker 6: There was this extremely eerie vibe to the town. There

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Speaker 6: definitely was a sense that something very big was happening

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Speaker 6: in real time. It almost felt it felt a little dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I think eeriness, she said, is the best word, like

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Speaker 1: just something was not right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's not uncommon. It was a perfect American

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Speaker 6: small town, right, there's one diner, there's not a movie theater.

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Speaker 6: So again, small insulated.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we just when we just started trying

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Speaker 3: to go door to door to meet anyone who could

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Speaker 3: tell us about the road and family.

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Speaker 6: I would say every single person we spoke to legitimately

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Speaker 6: invited us inside and could not have been lovelier.

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Speaker 1: There also was the experience of knocking on doors knowing

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Speaker 1: very well people are there. There was smoke coming out

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Speaker 1: of the chimney. We physically saw the curtains be closed,

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Speaker 1: and certain people ndstandably didn't want to speak to us,

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Speaker 1: but those who did, they were so welcoming. We reached

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Speaker 1: out to journalist Jeff Winkler, who was doing research on

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Speaker 1: the Wagner family.

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Speaker 4: For me personally.

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Speaker 9: When I first got an idea of how their ownents

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Speaker 9: lived and you know, who was related to who and whatnot,

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Speaker 9: I think I originally had the sense that the Wagoners

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Speaker 9: were in the same sort of position in terms of

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Speaker 9: property and and and perhaps financial situation will not. But

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Speaker 9: the Wagoners, I was rather surprised to learn that they had,

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Speaker 9: you know, a huge farm. They'd been running various farm

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Speaker 9: businesses on this huge bit of land or landlords. And

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Speaker 9: there were there was something of a sort of sort

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Speaker 9: of a family, if you will, in the area. And

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Speaker 9: you know, there were people that they we spoke with

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Speaker 9: that had some very open thoughts and loving thoughts about

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Speaker 9: the family.

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Speaker 1: In all this, we couldn't help wonder how could this

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Speaker 1: esteemed piked In family allegedly be responsible for Ohio's most

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Speaker 1: horrific murder. It seemed like everyone had an opinion. Here's

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Speaker 1: Andreie Montgomery, a piked In resident.

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Speaker 8: When the Wagners were arrested, you had your fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 13: You had people that said, yes, I knew that they

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Speaker 13: did that, and then you've got people that say, there's

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Speaker 13: no way those people did that.

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Speaker 1: But we wanted to get the story for ourselves, to

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Speaker 1: talk to those who actually knew the people accused of

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Speaker 1: carrying out these ruthless murders.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hi, Dorey, It's Jeff Shane calling Hi.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 3: How are you is now a good time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is Deray Mcalvy. She's Billy Wagner's cousin and

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Speaker 1: she grew up with the Wagners.

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Speaker 3: Were you close with Billy.

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Speaker 12: Billy was quite a bit younger than me.

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Speaker 8: I was about eleven years old when Billy was born,

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Speaker 8: but I was raised with him, and we had.

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Speaker 12: A whole lot of fun. It was so much fun.

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Speaker 8: We all bred horses, and we lived in Ohio and

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Speaker 8: it was beautiful and it snowed in the wintertime, and

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Speaker 8: it was beautiful in the summer, and we just had

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Speaker 8: so much fun.

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Speaker 12: It was unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: He was like a really good dad, right, like a

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Speaker 3: hard working just like sturdy, like good person, right.

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Speaker 12: All for his family. M hmm, all for his family.

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Speaker 1: Dere's depiction of her aunt, Frederica Wagner was just as glowing.

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Speaker 12: I spent my summers with my aunt Frederica.

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Speaker 8: It was awesome because we rode horses, we rode ponies,

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Speaker 8: did all kinds of awesome stuff.

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Speaker 3: I've heard the nicest things about her that she was

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Speaker 3: like an angel in that town.

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Speaker 8: She had to have been an angel in that town

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Speaker 8: because what I seen for her, what she did for

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Speaker 8: the community. She built a church for the community. She

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Speaker 8: financed the church for the community. She loves people, she

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Speaker 8: loves children.

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Speaker 1: But we were curious what did Deray think about the

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Speaker 1: charges against her family.

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Speaker 8: Our family joke is that there's no way that Betty

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Speaker 8: Crocker and the Dobe boys could ever go to an

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Speaker 8: extreme of murder.

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Speaker 12: It's not within their capabilities.

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Speaker 8: They love animals and they love people, and they are

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Speaker 8: really good at being resilient. And if you look up

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Speaker 8: the word Hillbilly and you really research that word, they

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Speaker 8: were very resilient in taking care of their family.

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Speaker 12: Somebody did it, but it wasn't Now.

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Speaker 1: To get more information on twenty seven year old George

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Speaker 1: and twenty six year old Jake Wagner, Angela and Billy

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Speaker 1: Wagner's sons, we reached out to Christina Howard. Christina's sister, Tabitha,

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Speaker 1: was married to George Wagner. The pair later divorced. Christina

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Speaker 1: spoke with Stephanie Leidecker about the time she spent with

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Speaker 1: the Wagner family.

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Speaker 11: My sister spent a lot of time over at George's

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Speaker 11: house before they got married. She was pretty much living

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Speaker 11: with them at the time before she got married, and

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Speaker 11: then after she got married, she straight, you know, moved

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Speaker 11: in with them, and I used to go over there

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Speaker 11: to their house every now and again, you know.

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Speaker 6: And did he seem like a nice guy?

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Speaker 1: What was his demeanor like?

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Speaker 11: He was funny. He was always cracking jokes and stuff

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Speaker 11: all the time.

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Speaker 6: So I don't know much about Jake Wagner at all.

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Speaker 1: What was he like as a kid.

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Speaker 11: He was actually really sweet as a kid. We got

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Speaker 11: along pretty good because you know, we just hung out

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Speaker 11: all the time, played video games, went outside.

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Speaker 1: Was he shy?

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Speaker 11: He wasn't shy with me. He was a really nice kid.

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Speaker 11: And well, growing up, my sisters were kind of bullies

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Speaker 11: to me and Taby she was dating George at the time,

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Speaker 11: and Tabby she would pick on me and Jake he

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Speaker 11: would take up for me, but like, hey, don't pick

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Speaker 11: on your little sister like that. What's mean and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Here's a Wagner family relative. She asked us not to

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Speaker 1: use her name, but was happy to talk to us

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Speaker 1: about the family. She remembers Angela Wagner as a caring

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Speaker 1: mother with a big heart.

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Speaker 13: Angela was just so sweet, like she was the sweetest lady.

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Speaker 13: I mean, anybody could ask her for help. I know

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Speaker 13: there was multiple times where there was just she had heard,

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Speaker 13: you know of Like there was a woman and her

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Speaker 13: daughter that was getting out of an abusive relationship and

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Speaker 13: Angela had just heard about it. She didn't know this lady,

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Speaker 13: you know, she had no idea anything about her. She

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Speaker 13: just knew that this woman and her you know, needed help.

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Speaker 13: The Angelos went and helped her get out of that.

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Speaker 13: You know, she gave her place to stay, She made

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Speaker 13: sure that the daughter had clothes and suit and you know,

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Speaker 13: she would always do stuff like that for people.

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Speaker 1: Everything we were hearing about the Wagner seemed at odds

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Speaker 1: with this image of the cold blooded killers accused of

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Speaker 1: murdering an entire family. But the deeper we dug, the

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Speaker 1: more secrets we began to find. Jeff continued speaking with

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Speaker 1: the same anonymous Wagner relative who speaks so closingly Evangela Wagner.

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Speaker 1: As it turns out, not everyone in the Wagner family

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Speaker 1: has such a sterling reputation, and when the conversation shifts

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Speaker 1: to Billy Wagner, things take a turn. Here is the

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Speaker 1: Wagner relative's first hand account.

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Speaker 3: Do you know when she met Billy and like when

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Speaker 3: that when they got married and how like that relationship

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Speaker 3: started and progressed.

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Speaker 13: Uh, yeah, that was. She has been with him for

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Speaker 13: something years, maybe longer, but towards he goes now, that's

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Speaker 13: a different Like I and my family we always kind

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Speaker 13: of thought sometime was like off with him. We never

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Speaker 13: actually never got to like connect with him in that way.

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Speaker 13: We always everybody always kind of knew that there was

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Speaker 13: something stranger that he was kind of he just had

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Speaker 13: this persona about him, like he was just a very

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Speaker 13: cold and just hateful person really is what I thought of.

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Speaker 13: In anyways, he was just a very rough around me

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Speaker 13: as a guy. And when it comes to him and Angela,

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Speaker 13: I'm not sure really how the beginning of a relationship was,

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Speaker 13: but I know towards the end, like before or you know,

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Speaker 13: right after all this happened, he was just very controlling,

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Speaker 13: very controlling. He She was afraid of him, extremely afraid

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Speaker 13: of him, as were the boys now, their oldest son George,

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Speaker 13: him and his dad. They were kind of like the same.

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Speaker 13: I just I don't believe that they're good people at all.

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Speaker 3: So what can you tell me about the relationship between

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Speaker 3: Angela and Billy Wagner?

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Speaker 13: I do know that Angela was, She was extremely She

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Speaker 13: was just afraid to leave, you know, she was afraid

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Speaker 13: to leave. She was terrified that if she did try

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Speaker 13: to leave, that he would find her, because he made

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Speaker 13: that very clear, you know, from what I've heard and

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Speaker 13: what her father had said, all multiplecasions like you know,

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Speaker 13: you're not gonna leave.

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Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: in a moment. This account of Angela and Billy's relationship

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Speaker 1: piqued our curiosity, so we started poking around for more

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Speaker 1: and from about the Wagoners. Most of what we uncovered

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Speaker 1: had to do with grandmother Frederica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother,

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Speaker 1: and what seemed to be some potentially questionable business practices.

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Speaker 1: I followed up with journalist Jeff Winkler to find out more.

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Speaker 9: Rodrika Wagner was repeatedly referred to as a god fearing woman,

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Speaker 9: was running a nursing home and doing a lot of

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Speaker 9: community service and community care for people, but like the Wagers,

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Speaker 9: had a lot of different sides.

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Speaker 1: To them exactly. And she had started a church as well,

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Speaker 1: and she took underprivileged kids. If people needed groceries, she

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Speaker 1: brought them groceries. So there is all of that, and

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Speaker 1: then on the flip side, many other people say they

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Speaker 1: were very secretive. There's also allegations of for example, in

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Speaker 1: the nursing home, maybe some dishonest business and perhaps cheating

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Speaker 1: people who were at a disadvantage out of money. And

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Speaker 1: these are substantiated court documents.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, the longer we looked into it, the longer it

358
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Speaker 9: seemed like thens you know, apart from having property and

359
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 9: been there for a long time, they were wheeling and dealing.

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Speaker 9: And I think although they were sort of pillars of

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Speaker 9: the community and involved in the community, certainly I think

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Speaker 9: that sort of especially when you have that sort of

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Speaker 9: much to lose.

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Speaker 4: You get protective.

365
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Speaker 9: Frederica Wagner had very much built the family business. Fredrika

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Speaker 9: Wagner was the one who kept the family business going,

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Speaker 9: and she kept the family and businesses on track. And uh,

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Speaker 9: you know, when you are building an empire, the last

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Speaker 9: thing you want to do is to see it fall.

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Speaker 9: And they were working on their fourth generation of Wagner

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Speaker 9: uh dominance in the area. So I can definitely understand sort.

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Speaker 4: Of protectiveness of that.

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Speaker 9: And in those cases, you you know, maybe you close,

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Speaker 9: maybe you close.

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Speaker 4: Ranks a little bit. You stick, you stick to kin.

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Speaker 9: You know, blood is thicker than water.

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Speaker 1: As we talked to more people in the community, we

378
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Speaker 1: found that these rumblings about the Wagner's business practices had

379
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Speaker 1: been circulating for years, and somehowd the deep distrust of

380
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Speaker 1: the family and their once sterling reputation. Jeff got Barber's

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Speaker 1: thoughts about grandmother Frederica Wagner.

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Speaker 2: All I've ever heard about her is one I've heard

383
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Speaker 2: how wonderful she is, how generous she was. I never

384
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Speaker 2: heard a bad word about that woman.

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Speaker 10: But just you know, she knew what she was doing,

386
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Speaker 10: and she just did what she could do to keep

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Speaker 10: them from being guilty, to keep them from being found

388
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Speaker 10: guilty or from being arrested, you know.

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Speaker 11: What I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they seem like everyone was on the surface, like

391
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Speaker 3: everyone loved them, and then when this happens, all the

392
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Speaker 3: other dirt kind of starts coming out.

393
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Speaker 10: It's like I can see beneath that surface, you know,

394
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Speaker 10: I feel like I can see her heart. When I

395
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 10: look at her, I just see is just kind of

396
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Speaker 10: see evil.

397
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Speaker 1: But while Frederica Wagner may have been involved in some

398
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Speaker 1: questionable business dealings and to some accounts, Billy Wagner may

399
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: not have been the best husband. We still didn't know

400
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Speaker 1: what all this had to do with the Rodents. At

401
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: their arraignment, all six members of the Wagner family pled

402
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: not guilty to all charges. It is worth noting, however,

403
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: that the charges against Frederica Wagner were eventually dropped and

404
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: Rita Joe Nukam ended up taking a plea deal. There's

405
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: more to tell on these grandmother stories, but we'll get

406
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Speaker 1: to all that later.

407
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 3: According to official court documents, all four of the Wagner

408
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 3: family are considered trigger pollers, meaning each one of them

409
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 3: had a hand in killing the Rodents that night, which

410
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 3: means they drove house to house the time, killing eight people.

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Speaker 6: It's also been speculated that Angela Wagner was really the

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00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 6: mastermind of this whole plan. When you look at her picture,

413
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 6: for example, her mugshot, she just looks like a regular

414
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 6: mom that you would see at the market. She doesn't

415
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 6: at all fit the profile that I have in my

416
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 6: head of what a serial killer or a mass murderer

417
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 6: should look like. And if she did do this, why

418
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 6: did she put this plan together? Because she wanted to

419
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 6: protect her own family? And if so, the irony is

420
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Speaker 6: if she's found guilty, because they're all being tried separately,

421
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 6: she may never cross paths with her husband or her

422
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 6: sons ever.

423
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: Again, you know, we obviously wanted to go back and

424
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: see what was the lead up, what brought us to

425
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Speaker 1: this point, and what was the intersection between the Rodent

426
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: family and the Wagner family. We got very curious about

427
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: the relationship between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. Here's the

428
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: anonymous Wagner relative again, Jake.

429
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 13: She had got involved with with Hannah Roden.

430
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Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin is the middle Rodent child and murder victim.

431
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: She was found dead in bed next to her five

432
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: day old baby, Kylie. She shared a child with Jake Wagner,

433
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: a two and a half year old daughter named Sophia.

434
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Speaker 13: Eventually, you know, they had separated. In everything that they

435
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 13: had separated, I guess.

436
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 3: On five term.

437
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: It seemed that the demise of their relationship had sparked

438
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: an ugly custody battle surrounding Sophia.

439
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 13: Hannah she was, you know, refusing to allow him to

440
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 13: see her, to get her or any of the family

441
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 13: to see her, and so it kind of just it

442
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 13: got out of hand. At that point it just set

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Speaker 13: him off to the point where Jake he had made

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Speaker 13: the comments you know that he were going.

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Speaker 12: To kill her.

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Speaker 1: Next time on the Pikes and Massacre. Piked In Massacre

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Speaker 1: is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional

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Speaker 1: producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The piked In

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Speaker 1: Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.