Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric, and this is next question.
Speaker 1: You know, the first time many Americans got a glimpse
Speaker 1: of Senator Amy Klobachar's no nonsense confidence in action was
Speaker 1: February twenty twenty at the Democratic presidential primary debate in
Speaker 1: New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: When we were in the last debate, Mayor, you basically
Speaker 2: mocked the one hundred years of experience on the stage.
Speaker 2: And what do I see on this stage? I see
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Work starting the consumer.
Speaker 1: This is Senator Klobachar taking a then thirty eight year
Speaker 1: old Pete Buddha judge to task on something he'd said
Speaker 1: at the presidential debate in Iowa just weeks before.
Speaker 2: Sanders Work working to get the Veterans Bill passed across
Speaker 2: the aisle. And I see what I've done, which is
Speaker 2: to negotiate three farm bells and be someone that actually
Speaker 2: had major provisions put in those bills. So what you
Speaker 2: can dismiss committee hearings. I think this experience works. And
Speaker 2: I have not denigrated your experience as a local official.
Speaker 3: I have been one, you know.
Speaker 2: I just think you should respect our experience when you
Speaker 2: look at how you evaluate someone who can get things done.
Speaker 1: If you, Senator for to mayor, I'll give you a
Speaker 1: chance to respond. And Amy Klobachar knows a thing or
Speaker 1: two about getting things done. She was the first woman
Speaker 1: elected to the US Senate from Minnesota, where since two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven she has served on dozens of committees,
Speaker 1: past major bipartisan legislation and fought hard for universal healthcare,
Speaker 1: strong new environmental policies, gun control, and the regulation of
Speaker 1: big tech. But over the course of the pandemic, Senator
Speaker 1: Clobchar was faced with some very personal challenges, and through
Speaker 1: all of it she was inspired to write a book
Speaker 1: in her spare time. I guess it's called The Joy
Speaker 1: of Politics, Surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic, an insurrection,
Speaker 1: and life's other expected curveballs. In it, she digs deep
Speaker 1: into a well of resilience she didn't know she had,
Speaker 1: and she finds up all things joy, I mean, really joy.
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of this book answering that question
Speaker 2: about what is the joy. There is joy in perseverance,
Speaker 2: whether it's through an illness or whether it's through trying
Speaker 2: to get a bill through Congress.
Speaker 1: Senator Klobachar and I had a wide ranging conversation we
Speaker 1: even got to geek out on policy, which is something
Speaker 1: both of us love, including a fascinating dive into immigration reform.
Speaker 2: So we're in a crisis, and no great nation has
Speaker 2: ever expanded that I know of, into even greater nation
Speaker 2: with a shrinking workforce. We can try to be the
Speaker 2: first experiment, but I'd rather not do that.
Speaker 3: So how do you do that?
Speaker 1: But my first question to her was, how on earth
Speaker 1: did you have time to write this book? Way? How
Speaker 1: are you right?
Speaker 3: This is what I did?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? I how are you? Did you
Speaker 1: have fun writing?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I wondered, how did you have time to do this?
Speaker 2: I just do it late at night and weekends, you
Speaker 2: know so I always thought every time you're quarantined for COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: So anyway, I enjoyed writing it.
Speaker 1: So given the state of the country, the state of
Speaker 1: the world, the personal shit excuse me, that you have
Speaker 1: been through in the last couple of years, how in
Speaker 1: the world could you write a book called The Joy
Speaker 1: of Politics?
Speaker 2: Good question, and it is not a sarcastic title. It
Speaker 2: is real And for me, I first look at what
Speaker 2: America's been through, the pandemic, the isolation, of all that,
Speaker 2: people have lost loved ones, they've lost their grandmas and grandpa's,
Speaker 2: people have had to change their jobs or lose jobs.
Speaker 2: There is the political divide, there's the violence that we're seeing.
Speaker 2: And through all of it, yes, we can lament the setbacks.
Speaker 2: And I go through my own from you know, not
Speaker 2: winning the presidential campaign to losing my dad with leid
Speaker 2: onset Alzheimer's and being diagnosed with breast cancer, something I
Speaker 2: know you can relate to, and all of this happening and.
Speaker 1: Husband deal with the serious in COVID.
Speaker 2: So we're now that is that's lamenting those setbacks, and
Speaker 2: it's important to do and realize what you've been through,
Speaker 2: but it is equally important to rejoice in the comebacks,
Speaker 2: to talk about how we get through things and how
Speaker 2: we get on the other side and the joy. And
Speaker 2: for me, it's joy in getting things done, joy in
Speaker 2: stepping back, as I'm sure you did when you got
Speaker 2: that breast cancer diagnosis or when you lost your husband.
Speaker 2: You do step back and you have this gratefulness for
Speaker 2: things that happen to you every day, total strangers helping
Speaker 2: you out. So that's part of the joy as well.
Speaker 1: Have you always been a glass half full person.
Speaker 2: Yes, or I wouldn't have decided to run for president today, right,
Speaker 2: I haven't There the story of going to talk to
Speaker 2: Barack Obama and he looked super cool in his leather jacket.
Speaker 2: He was meeting with a number of the candidates. Didn't
Speaker 2: really endorse anyone, but it was one of the best
Speaker 2: meetings I had. I went over my chances and then
Speaker 2: in that Barack Obama understated way it goes well. When
Speaker 2: I was running, most people put it less than fifty
Speaker 2: percent that I was going to win in the Democratic primary,
Speaker 2: and there were others that put it even less. And
Speaker 2: then he went on to give me advice of just
Speaker 2: taking each day at a time, having a goal. If
Speaker 2: you don't have a north star purpose, why do it?
Speaker 2: So that conversation with him was really actually quite inspiring
Speaker 2: for me, because you when you go into these things,
Speaker 2: you know your chances are not great, but then you remember,
Speaker 2: you know, the winner of some of these last years,
Speaker 2: I think Kentucky Derby was like one out of eighty odds,
Speaker 2: so you think it can happen.
Speaker 1: You know You've also found a lot of inspiration, I know,
Speaker 1: Senator from your fellow Senator the late Paul Wellstone, who
Speaker 1: went to my high school in Arlington. Really oh right.
Speaker 1: He is part of the Yorktown Wall of Fame, of
Speaker 1: which I am on as well, so we share this wall.
Speaker 1: He was an extraordinary man who died way too young
Speaker 1: in that prime crash. Tell me about your relationship with
Speaker 1: him and how he has inspired your attitudes.
Speaker 2: Sure so, no one ever thought he was going to win.
Speaker 2: He was a college professor. He went around in this
Speaker 2: green bus kind of ahead of his time, I would say,
Speaker 2: in focusing on economic justice and environmental issues. Yes, and it's
Speaker 2: kind of like the little guy. And he would talk
Speaker 2: about how we don't need another Rockefeller. I'm for the
Speaker 2: little fella. And he had this buoyancy about him and joy,
Speaker 2: and he taught me so much when he then surprisingly
Speaker 2: comes from behind wins the Senate races in the Senate,
Speaker 2: and I remember learning so much from him. For one thing,
Speaker 2: he taught me how to campaign on city buses.
Speaker 3: We would get on.
Speaker 2: A bus and we would meet everyone on the bus.
Speaker 2: We go down what is called the Nickelet Mall, the
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, and we would get to the end and
Speaker 2: we go buy everyone. Then we get off the bus
Speaker 2: and we just get a ticket and go on the
Speaker 2: other way. So the joy story about him, he had
Speaker 2: gone to the Senate floor and he had done lost
Speaker 2: big time some amendment and he'd made this passionate speech
Speaker 2: in his you know, five foot six frame, and he'd
Speaker 2: like and then he just lost. And he got back
Speaker 2: to the office and everyone had their heads down. They'd
Speaker 2: been watching it on the Senate TV.
Speaker 3: They knew what happened.
Speaker 2: And he walked in and it looks around at all
Speaker 2: of them, and it would some I would say, self
Speaker 2: reckoned ignition about the humor of this, because he.
Speaker 3: Was so mad, and he goes, what's going on in
Speaker 3: this room? Where is the joy? What happened to the joy?
Speaker 2: And then there's that joy of getting things done and knowing,
Speaker 2: like after working for years to pass a bill to
Speaker 2: bring down the cost of pharmaceuticals, that it finally happened,
Speaker 2: My bill finally got passed into law last summer. Or
Speaker 2: it's the joy of just being part of something bigger
Speaker 2: than yourself. That's what John McCain would always tell me.
Speaker 2: In fact, when I visited him when he was dying
Speaker 2: in Sidona, I tell the story, and he was still
Speaker 2: irascible and hilarious, and at the very end of it,
Speaker 2: when he can't talk, he points to some words that
Speaker 2: he had written, and the words where there's nothing in
Speaker 2: life more liberating than fighting for a cause larger than yourself.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something we all have to remember
Speaker 2: right now. So as people gather again, it is exhilarating
Speaker 2: to go to events. It's also can be a scary thing,
Speaker 2: but it's also a good thing because the only way
Speaker 2: we're going to go back to having civic discussions of
Speaker 2: views and differing views is if we actually talk to
Speaker 2: each other again.
Speaker 1: I know that's so true. At the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: I have to say I'm a pretty optimistic person and
Speaker 1: I would like to see people talk who disagree on issues.
Speaker 1: But as you know, and as you write about, we
Speaker 1: have created our own ecosystems based on our political beliefs.
Speaker 1: I think bridging this divide and reducing polarization is the
Speaker 1: biggest existential threat our country faces. So I mean, it's
Speaker 1: great to be optimistic and think we can talk to
Speaker 1: one another, but it's not happening on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 2: Well, so, Chris Som what you've said is just righteous,
Speaker 2: But to me. Courage isn't just standing by yourself giving
Speaker 2: some speech, yelling at everyone. Courage is whether or not
Speaker 2: you're willing to stand next to someone you don't always
Speaker 2: agree with for the betterment of this country. And in
Speaker 2: this book, I actually recount how things have happened, and
Speaker 2: it's not pretty. And I am never going to pretend
Speaker 2: that this book will stop all the anger in our politics.
Speaker 2: But when you look at what we've been through, the pandemic,
Speaker 2: the aftermath with the economy, through all of that, some
Speaker 2: incredible things happened last year, many of them bipartisan. So
Speaker 2: after years of working on infrastructure and why you know,
Speaker 2: they have high speed broadband next of spewing volcanoes in
Speaker 2: Iceland and we don't have it in Lanesboro, Minnesota, you
Speaker 2: do start wondering, maybe we can do better. And so
Speaker 2: this infrastructure bill that was a product of a number
Speaker 2: of Senators actually working together, including Center Portman and Center
Speaker 2: Cinema and so many others. We got that passed. Then
Speaker 2: you fast forward the gun safety bill. As we know
Speaker 2: from the events of this last months, from what we
Speaker 2: saw happen in Kentucky to Nashville to what just happened
Speaker 2: in Texas that our work is so far not done.
Speaker 2: There is so much more has to be done. But
Speaker 2: finally a group took on the NRI and did something
Speaker 2: about background checks and something about mental health funding. Senator
Speaker 2: Cornyn and I, in the middle of the pandemic, joined
Speaker 2: forces to save our stages, the biggest investment in the
Speaker 2: arts in the history of America, and we enlisted everyone
Speaker 2: from Pittbull to the Fargo Theater to help us get senators.
Speaker 2: And before you knew it, we had Mitch McConnell on
Speaker 2: the bill and Chuck Schumer on the bill and we
Speaker 2: were able to move it. So those are legislative examples
Speaker 2: of that. But time and time again in the book,
Speaker 2: I recount how people Roy Blunt and I the insurrection
Speaker 2: that was in our hands.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: We were the ones that had to make that walk
Speaker 2: with Vice President Pi over the broken glass, passed the
Speaker 2: pillars filled with vulgarities, to finish the job and make
Speaker 2: sure that democracy prevailed. We were the ones that had
Speaker 2: to do the investigation of the security failures at the Capitol,
Speaker 2: and then ultimately the ones who made sure when everyone
Speaker 2: wanted to put the inauguration in a bunker, and many
Speaker 2: did that. We stood up and said, no, we're going
Speaker 2: to take back that platform that those insurrectionists tried to
Speaker 2: strip down, and we're going to have people of both parties,
Speaker 2: everyone from George Bush and Dan Quayle to Barack Obama
Speaker 2: and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton on that platform to
Speaker 2: show that America peacefully passes on the torch of power.
Speaker 3: That was bipartisan.
Speaker 2: And so I don't think it's dead, and I certainly
Speaker 2: think the American people don't think democracy is withering on
Speaker 2: a vine when they turn out in record numbers to
Speaker 2: defeat election deniers, which was a real I would say,
Speaker 2: shot in the arm for those that believe in democracy,
Speaker 2: and that just in the last election.
Speaker 1: When we come back, you'll hear how the demanding life
Speaker 1: of a US senator doesn't stop even after a difficult diagnosis.
Speaker 1: We're back with Senator Amy Klobuchar. Isn't it shocking when
Speaker 1: you hear that sixty percent of Republicans still believe the
Speaker 1: election was not fair? I mean it, you know, I
Speaker 1: hear you, and I think eighty seven percent of Americans
Speaker 1: consider themselves centrists or moderate and you have these extreme
Speaker 1: factions on either side. But Wow, that number is shocking
Speaker 1: to me. And yes, ultimately the election deniers didn't win,
Speaker 1: but that view is still so prominent out in the
Speaker 1: United States of America despite all evidence to the contrary.
Speaker 2: Well, Ronald Trump's shadow is still out there. He is
Speaker 2: still a force to be reckoned with within their party.
Speaker 2: But when you look again at the actual voting of
Speaker 2: Americans in this last midterm, people were horrified Independence turned
Speaker 2: out big time and actually voted democratic. I think Hakeem
Speaker 2: Jeffries calls them team Normal, Team America.
Speaker 1: And I want to get that t shirt Team Normal.
Speaker 2: There you go, And they were making a sensible case
Speaker 2: about our democracy.
Speaker 3: So that's I mean.
Speaker 2: I know there's polls all over the place and like,
Speaker 2: including the one you just cited, but I just can't
Speaker 2: help but looking at the actual elections, Yeah.
Speaker 3: What happens in the end, America.
Speaker 2: They may be understandably grumbling about a politician or not
Speaker 2: like a certain position or what's been happening, But in
Speaker 2: the end, when faced with do I want to have
Speaker 2: someone that actually is out there fomenting an insurrection or
Speaker 2: fomenting divides, or do I want someone that sees the hope,
Speaker 2: that wants to get things done that wants to work
Speaker 2: across the aisle, many of them tend to go to
Speaker 2: that second candidate.
Speaker 1: I can't help but ask you about gun violence, something
Speaker 1: that I care deeply about, and I've been pretty outspoken
Speaker 1: for years now, just because I couldn't understand after all
Speaker 1: those first graders were mowed down in Sandy Hook and
Speaker 1: the fact that I think at the time the vast
Speaker 1: majority of Americans favored sensible gun laws, and seventy four
Speaker 1: percent of the NRA actually favors sensible gun laws. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's talk about the assault weapons ban, because I
Speaker 1: know that Congress as it stands today, with the Republican
Speaker 1: majority in the House, could never pass another assault weapons ban.
Speaker 1: But for crying out loud, what is the argument against it?
Speaker 2: Well, I am from a strong hunting state. It's the
Speaker 2: way the quality of life in Minnesota. And I always
Speaker 2: look at these proposals and say, would this hurt my
Speaker 2: uncle Dick in his deer stand. My uncle Dick loved hunting,
Speaker 2: And the answer is no, they don't need AR fifteen,
Speaker 2: they don't need assault weapons. So then you go to
Speaker 2: your next question, could it practically do anything if we
Speaker 2: banned the purchase of these assault weapons.
Speaker 3: And my answer is yes. And let me give you
Speaker 3: some examples of this.
Speaker 2: When you look at the two shootings in Uvalde, Texas
Speaker 2: or in Buffalo, when you look at those, those were
Speaker 2: both eighteen year olds who were waiting to turn eighteen
Speaker 2: and then bought an assault weapon on the internet twenty
Speaker 2: five years ago or how many years ago we had
Speaker 2: that assault weapon nine and ninety four. People weren't doing
Speaker 2: things like that. So even Center Manson has favored banning
Speaker 2: the future purchase of assault weapon bans for eighteen to
Speaker 2: twenty one year olds, you know, So you look at that,
Speaker 2: So that's one thing you can do, and then after
Speaker 2: you ban them, you could do all kinds of things
Speaker 2: with gun buybacks. There's just no reason we have to
Speaker 2: accept this as it is. So I just I go
Speaker 2: back to the fact that political movements start with individuals
Speaker 2: and what you've seen in Nashville with people pushing back
Speaker 2: when those legislators were basically pushed out and expelled from
Speaker 2: the legislature, and then their constituents said no way, and
Speaker 2: it became a national issue. No one thought that in
Speaker 2: the state of Kansas after the Dobbs decision came out,
Speaker 2: and Roe V. Wade was pushed out that in this
Speaker 2: middle of the prairie, that all these people would turn
Speaker 2: out and say no, we want our reproductive rights in
Speaker 2: more numbers than even had voted in the mid term before.
Speaker 2: That's what happened in Kansas, so people turn out to vote.
Speaker 1: Let me talk about another issue that I cared deeply about.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you had the same experience. You and
Speaker 1: I were both diagnosed with breast cancer. We were very
Speaker 1: lucky because you were stage one. I was just I
Speaker 1: was an apartment unit when I frustrated, and we both
Speaker 1: have lumpectomies and radiation. And I just want to ask
Speaker 1: you about our healthcare system, Senator, because I couldn't help
Speaker 1: but think I am so lucky. I have the best healthcare.
Speaker 1: I live in New York City, I have the best doctors.
Speaker 1: I have good health insurance. And you know, when you
Speaker 1: think that black women have a forty percent higher mortality
Speaker 1: rate than white women from breast cancer, that so many
Speaker 1: women can't afford or don't have access to preventative screening
Speaker 1: for all kinds of cancer, is our healthcare system as
Speaker 1: screwed up as I think it is?
Speaker 2: I think it has a lot of problems that need
Speaker 2: to be fixed, and some of this is pharmaceutical crisis,
Speaker 2: which does affect everyone. So if you have less money
Speaker 2: and not as good a plan, it affects you even more.
Speaker 2: If you like someone in Minnesota, kid was on our
Speaker 2: healthcare because the Affordable Care Act guaranteed that till twenty six.
Speaker 2: He turns twenty six, he's diabetic, starts rationing his insulin,
Speaker 2: which should have never been that expensive, and gets the
Speaker 2: numbers wrong and died. That mom came out to Washington
Speaker 2: as my guest to the State of the Union to
Speaker 2: make that point.
Speaker 3: So that's part of it.
Speaker 2: And you have seen major advancements on this in terms
Speaker 2: of finally pushing medicare and negotiation because the prices were
Speaker 2: locked in double what they are in so many countries.
Speaker 2: We have the most expensive drugs of any industrialized nation,
Speaker 2: yet our taxpayers are the ones that funded so much
Speaker 2: of the research. So I would start with that it's
Speaker 2: a total outrage, and that insurance company.
Speaker 3: That's what I was going to get to next.
Speaker 2: So we've finally done something on emergency medical bills so
Speaker 2: they can't just shock you in their amounts that there's
Speaker 2: limits on it, but there is more we should be
Speaker 2: doing in terms of transparency about how much things really cost,
Speaker 2: and looking at expanding medicare to go down to possibly
Speaker 2: fifty five. Those kinds of things would be a good step.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the bills that I favor.
Speaker 1: Did the Affordable Care Act help?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: And I don't know, it just doesn't feel it feels
Speaker 1: like we've gone backwards.
Speaker 2: Well, the Affordable Care Act has made a major difference
Speaker 2: for people. Millions and millions and millions and more people
Speaker 2: got healthcare. There's absolutely no doubt about it. And if
Speaker 2: we're talking about breast cancer, millions of women now had
Speaker 2: access to that kind of screening that wasn't available to
Speaker 2: them before. That's a big, big deal. Trying to focus
Speaker 2: and use our knowledge of medicine to get those people
Speaker 2: tested more so that they have a chance to catch
Speaker 2: it early, which we all know catching it early is
Speaker 2: a key part of this. And yes, in my case,
Speaker 2: like yours, during the pandemic, I maybe wasn't quite as
Speaker 2: up to date on everything I was supposed to do,
Speaker 2: and I had waited too long. And when they first
Speaker 2: told me, oh, we just did this mammogram and it
Speaker 2: looks like there's some problems here. I said, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: sure it's fine. I promise you need to get this
Speaker 2: checked again right away, right away. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but and I still remember the feeling as I took
Speaker 2: off that hospital gown, put on my suit, put my
Speaker 2: lipstick on, and said, I am ready to go out
Speaker 2: and do my press conference on vaccines.
Speaker 3: That's what I did. I just go, I promise.
Speaker 2: Well, Luckily a week later I did go back, and
Speaker 2: that was when I found out that I had this
Speaker 2: stage one A cancer and it got the call in
Speaker 2: Washington and had to go into the Senate Chamber and vote.
Speaker 2: And I think then the experience and your experience gets
Speaker 2: to be like a lot of people's experiences putting that
Speaker 2: story out there as I did in finding Out, as
Speaker 2: I discuss in the book, that other people then go
Speaker 2: in and get their own exams, which right they're guaranteed
Speaker 2: with the Affordable Care Act, by the way. That's the
Speaker 2: joy of actually getting a story out that's hard and
Speaker 2: not easy, and then other people listen, it resonates and
Speaker 2: they take care of themselves. That's a pretty good thing
Speaker 2: about using what is a really bad experience for good,
Speaker 2: and no one knows that better than you, Katie Kuric.
Speaker 1: You know, I think everyone has to shout it from
Speaker 1: the mountaintops because too few people are still getting screened
Speaker 1: for so many diseases that it really is the difference
Speaker 1: between life and death if these cancers are detected early.
Speaker 1: And so thank you for being so public about your situation.
Speaker 1: It makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I tried to do it as horrible as
Speaker 2: the whole thing is, with some humor of the situation
Speaker 2: as well, that you can get through it. Including one
Speaker 2: of my best stories was I'm waiting to get what
Speaker 2: I thought was a lumpact to me and I'm laying
Speaker 2: I've got this target literally drawn on my breast. I'm
Speaker 2: wearing those you know, hospital thing over me. And this
Speaker 2: woman comes over and says, hey, Senator. She goes, could
Speaker 2: I talk to you about Burma. There's some really bad
Speaker 2: things happening, and I happen to know a lot about it,
Speaker 2: and I go, I go, yes, I know. She goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's getting worse here and there's a lot of refugees.
Speaker 3: Ten ho minutes, okay, on and on, but I go, look.
Speaker 2: I want to help you but I don't on my
Speaker 2: phone because I'm going into the surgery and they've taken away.
Speaker 2: But I do want to help you. And so now
Speaker 2: they're wheeling me away and they put the anesthesian and I.
Speaker 3: Know I'm talking about all though she's now left.
Speaker 2: But most people like count sleep. They say, think of
Speaker 2: peaceful things. All I'm saying over and over in my head,
Speaker 2: so I won't to forget is don't forget Burma.
Speaker 3: Don't forget Burma. Don't forget Burma.
Speaker 2: Then I wake up hours later and my husband's there
Speaker 2: and I look at him and he goes the first
Speaker 2: thing I do say, was it a lumpectomy or mess sectomy?
Speaker 2: Because I've given them permission to do that, and you
Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen. He goes to his
Speaker 2: a lumpectomy, and I'm feeling kind of sick for the anesthesia.
Speaker 2: I go, okay, good, Then could you give me my phone?
Speaker 2: I got to write the stuff about Burma. And then
Speaker 2: he said, well, I guess you're okay. Then, oh, when
Speaker 2: you get the call, and then you got to walk
Speaker 2: into the Senate to all those people in that room
Speaker 2: and they're just like telling you way why aren't you
Speaker 2: on this bill? Well, you can't do that. You can't
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: It does kind of give you a new perspectives on
Speaker 1: the things matter.
Speaker 2: And I can't tell any of these people about this
Speaker 2: because one of them will tell the press and I'll
Speaker 2: have no privacy.
Speaker 3: I've got to wait.
Speaker 2: Tell the story is mine, right, and I can tell
Speaker 2: it myself, which I did. And so that's another weird
Speaker 2: thing to be in the public light as you are,
Speaker 2: and then trying to figure out how you're going to
Speaker 2: be able to have your own private thing with your family,
Speaker 2: which I felt like, you know, we handled, we know
Speaker 2: pretty well.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Amy Klobuchar reveals what you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to sneak into a presidential debate, even though a
Speaker 1: lot of then do. That's right after this. If you
Speaker 1: want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of
Speaker 1: the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and
Speaker 1: pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up
Speaker 1: Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. We're back with
Speaker 1: Senator Amy Klobachar. You know I'm so interested in policy.
Speaker 1: I could talk to you about policy all day long. Senator,
Speaker 1: Can we just touch on what's going on with immigration
Speaker 1: real quickly only because it's so time right now tell.
Speaker 2: Us with this change in policy that it had been
Speaker 2: put in place because of the pandemic Title Title forty two.
Speaker 2: We're now through the pandemic. So that changes to solutions here.
Speaker 2: One of them is to process people not on the
Speaker 2: border but back in places like Guatemala and Honduras where
Speaker 2: so many of these asylum seekers in El Salvador and
Speaker 2: other places are coming from.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 2: The other one is to have immigration reform. And I
Speaker 2: cannot tell you how much we need this because in
Speaker 2: the Northern States we actually are down to in some
Speaker 2: cases two three percent unemployment. We don't have enough ag workers,
Speaker 2: we don't have enough tourism people, we don't have enough
Speaker 2: people in healthcare. There's in especially in some of these
Speaker 2: rural states. Its nursing homes are closing down. So how
Speaker 2: do you do that legally to make this work and
Speaker 2: be able to vet people. You do that with a
Speaker 2: more robust legal immigration system, so you're letting people in
Speaker 2: with vetting more straightforwardly, so you don't have situations like
Speaker 2: we have where we bring people in and it works
Speaker 2: with our corn growers or planting or do producers. We
Speaker 2: have a ton of people come in America, including my
Speaker 2: state like that. Well right now a number of them
Speaker 2: are just deciding to go work in Canada. Why we
Speaker 2: have a rule in place that their spouse can oh
Speaker 2: so work for five years when they are here on
Speaker 2: work permits, they have been vetted. But we make it
Speaker 2: so hard and so difficult that it's easier to go
Speaker 2: work in other countries. We need to make the legal
Speaker 2: part of this work better and then we can put
Speaker 2: more resources at the border. But to think we're just
Speaker 2: going to close off our country and not bring in
Speaker 2: immigrants legally, our country was built on immigrants. Immigrants don't
Speaker 2: diminish America. They are America.
Speaker 1: And yet immigration is so weaponized, particularly by the far
Speaker 1: right in this country, that it seems unlikely that there
Speaker 1: will be immigration reform. Do you think it's going to happen.
Speaker 2: I think something is going to have to happen because
Speaker 2: of this weird dual problem. You've got problems at the border,
Speaker 2: but you also have problems of not having enough legal immigration.
Speaker 2: Grover Norquist favored immigration reform because it brought the debt
Speaker 2: down in ten years by over one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: billion dollar because people are finally paying into taxes and
Speaker 2: things instead of working in the shadows. So some of
Speaker 2: this money can be used to figure out what is
Speaker 2: real and what's not when processing these cases. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that I note in the book is
Speaker 2: just that some of these long term issues have just festered,
Speaker 2: but in this book I actually have solutions to some
Speaker 2: of this, in addition to some very fun stories about
Speaker 2: the presidential debates.
Speaker 3: Just as we enter a presidential DIBt.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's great segue because you talk a lot about
Speaker 1: your twenty twenty presidential bid, which fittingly is the senior
Speaker 1: Senator of Minnesota was launched in the middle of a blizzard.
Speaker 1: As listened. Because it's funny.
Speaker 2: Now, we don't let a little snow stop us. We
Speaker 2: don't let a little cold stops like, are you guys
Speaker 2: even cold?
Speaker 1: Tell the troth.
Speaker 2: Now, when I said that elected leaders should go not
Speaker 2: just where it's comfortable, but also where it's uncomfortable, this
Speaker 2: is what I meant as the first woman elected to
Speaker 2: the United States Senate from the state of Minnesota to
Speaker 2: announce my canadacy for President of United State. Memories Memories
Speaker 2: of hoping that no one would freeze. Memories of we
Speaker 2: had to start bonfires so that there would be like,
Speaker 2: literally no one freezing. It was supposed to be cold,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't supposed to snow. And while it was
Speaker 2: this beautiful backdrop, there were people that were literally encrusted
Speaker 2: in snow. Then out in the crowd was my which
Speaker 2: I recount in the book, the woman who has cut
Speaker 2: and colored my hair for decades named b and she'd
Speaker 2: come out early and she was like, you know, she'd
Speaker 2: done my hair right before I went out there, and
Speaker 2: she was later told me she was out there praying,
Speaker 2: and I said, oh, Bie, you didn't have to go
Speaker 2: out there was so nice of being and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be fine. We've got this great team.
Speaker 2: She goes, no, no, it was that bad intersection of
Speaker 2: a blizzard and a haircut, and she goes, you didn't notice,
Speaker 2: but I saw some gray coming in on your part,
Speaker 2: and I took a bunch of brown stuff and I
Speaker 2: sprayed it on there. And I was sitting out in
Speaker 2: the crowd, thinking, oh my god, it's going to start
Speaker 2: dribbling down her face, which yes, I note him in
Speaker 2: a footnote. I note that he needed to be, but
Speaker 2: he needed a lot more than that because he wasn't
Speaker 2: even in a blizzard like I was. So you know,
Speaker 2: that never happened, but it was truly a joyous thing,
Speaker 2: and our odds were slim, but it was important for
Speaker 2: me to make the case. When I look back at
Speaker 2: that speech, it meets the test of time. I was
Speaker 2: talking about workforce, I was talking about immigration reform. I
Speaker 2: was focused on technology, which many of my opponents were
Speaker 2: not talking about the need to put rules of the
Speaker 2: road in place when it comes to tech companies. And
Speaker 2: it was about bringing our country together, crossing the river
Speaker 2: of our divides, and the metaphor of the Mississippi River
Speaker 2: running through our country all the way from Minnesota to
Speaker 2: Louisiana to New Orleans, the place of our resilience in
Speaker 2: that our country was resilient.
Speaker 3: So that was the theme of it.
Speaker 2: And we went from there to town halls in Iowa
Speaker 2: and casino basements in Nevada and debates and unbelievable events
Speaker 2: all over the country. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: can happen when you're running for president, especially in a
Speaker 2: crowded primary, you can start to hate.
Speaker 3: The people you're running against. Or like them, and I
Speaker 3: actually grew to like them more.
Speaker 2: I loved the fact that in one night in Miami,
Speaker 2: we doubled the number of women ever on either party's
Speaker 2: presidential debate stage in one night, and we showed the
Speaker 2: world that women who were running from Elizabeth to kom
Speaker 2: to me Kearston, that the women look different, they wore
Speaker 2: different clothes, they came from different parts of the country,
Speaker 2: and here's what's most important, they had different views and
Speaker 2: they could debate each other. So that was a cool
Speaker 2: thing on its own, But my fondest memories were those
Speaker 2: debate stages where just the craziest things happened. The best
Speaker 2: of all was in la when I had Bernie was
Speaker 2: to my right, which alone was funny. People are scribbling
Speaker 2: down their notes and I'm doing it all like you're
Speaker 2: writing what you're going to say, Statistics, you want to use, lines,
Speaker 2: you want to use. My pen just explodes, and it's
Speaker 2: the one they've given us. I turned to Bernie elbowm
Speaker 2: I'm like, I need a pen. Now he's using his,
Speaker 2: and he takes his pen out. We were never supposed
Speaker 2: to bring in pens, but this is the day I
Speaker 2: realized all the men could just hide these pens in
Speaker 2: their pockets. So he takes out one for himself, gives
Speaker 2: me his debate pen. I start using the same one
Speaker 2: and it breaks down too. Then I turned to Styre
Speaker 2: on my left. He luckily has one his own pen,
Speaker 2: gives me. I'm finally able to write the notes, and
Speaker 2: I just want to thank those guys because that debate
Speaker 2: was one of my best ones.
Speaker 1: I can't let you go without turning to twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four briefly. Sure, there has been and this is not
Speaker 1: a surprise question, Senator, a lot of concern about Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's age, and do you think that's a legitimate concern.
Speaker 2: I think what the legitimate issue is who is going
Speaker 2: to continue moving this country forward? And Joe Biden has
Speaker 2: shown that his experience has been a good thing, that
Speaker 2: the people he's put in have been fantastic in these
Speaker 2: cabinet positions, and that he's moved us out of this pandemic.
Speaker 2: He has brought dignity back into the White House. And
Speaker 2: I just think in the end, when independence and modern
Speaker 2: Republicans look at this, and as you look at Jnald
Speaker 2: Trump's support that's growing with the magabase of their party.
Speaker 2: They're going to look at this and say, no, we
Speaker 2: don't want to go back to that chaos and hate
Speaker 2: and divisiveness. And that's how I that's why I'm supporting Joe,
Speaker 2: and that's why I think he will win this race.
Speaker 1: Can the country survive another Biden Trump election?
Speaker 2: Honestly, country survived a lot, and we still don't know
Speaker 2: who the candidate is going to be on the other side.
Speaker 2: But you believe, don't you that it's probably going to
Speaker 2: be Donald Trump right now? If you looked at the
Speaker 2: pure numbers, you'd believe that. But there are going to
Speaker 2: be a lot of things. As I learned in my
Speaker 2: primary campaign, there's a lot of twists and turns that
Speaker 2: the road takes on the way there. There really are,
Speaker 2: And so many of our candidates who people thought were
Speaker 2: the front runner in other elections on both sides of
Speaker 2: the aisle, ended up not being the front runner in
Speaker 2: the end. So I don't think that's a given at all.
Speaker 2: Would you ever run for president again? I am focused
Speaker 2: on supporting this president and my work in the send It,
Speaker 2: And as you have pointed out by many of your questions,
Speaker 2: we have a lot on our plate and a lot
Speaker 2: to do, Amy Klovichar, it's so great to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Your book is called The Joy of Politics, and it's fun.
Speaker 2: It's fun and joyful surviving cancer, a campaign, a pandemic,
Speaker 2: an insurrection, and life's other unexpected curveballs, and boy, there
Speaker 2: have been plenty of them for you and for the country.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, Thanks Ane, It's been great to be
Speaker 2: Can I call you Amy?
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what most of my constituents call me.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
Speaker 1: or want to share your thoughts about how you navigate
Speaker 1: this crazy world reach out. You can leave a short
Speaker 1: message at six oh nine five point two five to
Speaker 1: five oh five, or you can send me a DM
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next
Speaker 1: Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media.
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Meet, Katie Couric and Courtney Ltz.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna
Speaker 1: Fazzio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell,
Speaker 1: who also composed our theme music. For more information about
Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter, wake
Speaker 1: Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app,
Speaker 1: or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and all my social media channels.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.