Speaker 1: My name is Phyllis Smith, and I played Phillis Slap
Speaker 1: and Vance. Hello everybody, and welcome back, one and all
Speaker 1: to the Office Deep Dive. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: and I am so excited to present to you my
Speaker 1: interview with Phyllis Smith. And guys. This episode is truly
Speaker 1: one of my favorites ever, not only because Phillis is
Speaker 1: obviously wonderful, but because I finally finally got to have
Speaker 1: my Oprah moment. Now here's what happened. As some of
Speaker 1: you may know, Phillis did not start out as an actor. No,
Speaker 1: Phillis was actually Alison's casting associate on the Office, but
Speaker 1: she was just so perfect that Greg Daniels and Ken
Speaker 1: Kappa decided to cast her, and obviously she went on
Speaker 1: to be an incredible part of our ensemble. So Phillis
Speaker 1: and Allison had worked together many years, become very very
Speaker 1: close friends. But they don't get to see each other
Speaker 1: very often these days. So when I was going to
Speaker 1: be interviewing Phillis, I said to Alison, Hey, Alison, why
Speaker 1: don't you come in. You guys can talk about casting,
Speaker 1: and then I can talk with Phillis about you know,
Speaker 1: her progression through the show, and but let's surprise her.
Speaker 1: Don't tell Phillis that you're going to be there, and
Speaker 1: as you will hear right now. It was just the
Speaker 1: best moment. So um oh, I'm so excited. Let's roll
Speaker 1: the tape. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and
Speaker 1: Squeak and Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month left over
Speaker 1: from the nut before. I'm so excited for Phyllis to
Speaker 1: come in and see you. She's out there. She just
Speaker 1: doesn't know that you're here. Are we good? Okay, she's
Speaker 1: gonna walk through that door. I love this, skinny Phillis.
Speaker 1: What's the deal? Surprised? How are you so good to
Speaker 1: see you? Oh my goodness, I bill A Pillow asked
Speaker 1: her most everything. Yeah, no, ask her. So I just
Speaker 1: this is just to tell you what's going on. So
Speaker 1: I had my thing. I've interviewed Allison, We've talked about
Speaker 1: casting the entire show. But I said to her, let's
Speaker 1: let's leave off Phillis, because I wanted you to come
Speaker 1: in and you guys to be able to have a
Speaker 1: conversation together. So how when did you guys meet? Oh? God? Okay,
Speaker 1: the first pilot we worked on together was called was
Speaker 1: at those offices across from Universal and we cast James
Speaker 1: Franco and Ben Foster in a really bad sitcom. We
Speaker 1: were in the trailer. Oh, we were in the trailer
Speaker 1: that we were in the trailer first on NBC's a Lot,
Speaker 1: That's right, And that was um because Jessica Walter screamed
Speaker 1: at her agent for sending her to the wrong place
Speaker 1: and we were like hiding behind in the desk like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, We're like, what's going on? Um? But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an in terrible trailer and it was during
Speaker 1: like El Nino, and our trailer everything was soaked. Everything
Speaker 1: was soaked. They had terrible rain. They were leaks. And
Speaker 1: from my point of view, I had been working with
Speaker 1: Alan Hawkford and the day that was my last day
Speaker 1: with him on we went across the hall to say goodbye,
Speaker 1: and that when um whose office? They said, oh, Allison
Speaker 1: Joe Yeah? And I said, do you know if anybody
Speaker 1: is looking for a casting and associate and they said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Allison Jones to it. And so then I contacted you
Speaker 1: and then I had an interview on Monday, and you
Speaker 1: started me on Wednesday. Yes, right, right, right, and I
Speaker 1: remember Steve Jacobs was another casting director, said if you
Speaker 1: want someone to whip you into shape, higher this gal,
Speaker 1: What's what year is this? Probably because then we went
Speaker 1: on to do some like Freaks and Geeks, we did
Speaker 1: other Yeah, but before that we did Roswell, which was lacious.
Speaker 1: We call our We called that the lowest point of
Speaker 1: both of our lives. It was just lacious because it
Speaker 1: was for a network that needed beautiful people. I told
Speaker 1: you that's where Heath Ledger wasn't good looking enough for
Speaker 1: Fox right and Ian Summer remember Ian Summer Holder yelled
Speaker 1: at me because yes, we were shocked. You got yelled
Speaker 1: at for reading too fast with the actor in the room,
Speaker 1: and I felt terrible, but yeah, he yelled at me
Speaker 1: right after the So yeah, I've never done that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I should try that job, not like traumatized me. So
Speaker 1: I tried to slow it down after that. So you
Speaker 1: worked together from through two thousand three, the whole time.
Speaker 1: Still worked through the first episodes of the Office. Didn't
Speaker 1: work till the mid second season, right, because you guys
Speaker 1: weren't getting paid anything, right, and I we didn't know
Speaker 1: if we were getting a pickup or Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: remained in casting, Kate remained working in the restaurant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we all just held on. So what did you
Speaker 1: what did you do in casting for like, were you
Speaker 1: primarily reading or were you I? Um, Alison would give
Speaker 1: me her ideas and we'd go through. At that time
Speaker 1: in casting we used to get real pictures and resumes.
Speaker 1: We were stacked full of so I had to separate
Speaker 1: all those in two different you know, and whatever Allison
Speaker 1: wanted me to do, I did it and set up
Speaker 1: the appointments. Make sure trying to confirm actors, you are
Speaker 1: a tough one though, because you would say you have
Speaker 1: to call me back and confirm that the confirmation is
Speaker 1: actually real, not just I remember that one time we
Speaker 1: had that one kid that we had given out an
Speaker 1: appointment and it was for um, a bad movie. It
Speaker 1: was a movie that and it was with Creative or
Speaker 1: you big agency, I don't remember the agency. But he
Speaker 1: I had given out all the appointments, waited approximately a
Speaker 1: week or so to confirm. Finally I hadn't heard anything.
Speaker 1: So I called and he still hadn't given the appointments
Speaker 1: out and the session was like, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of days away. So what I did is. I proceeded
Speaker 1: to call the managers of everybody, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: this kid calls me and he goes, what do you
Speaker 1: think you're doing? And uh, I said, well, I'm doing
Speaker 1: the work that you should have been doing. Yes, And
Speaker 1: he goes, how dare you? And I said, well, you
Speaker 1: know what, let me tell you something. I said. When
Speaker 1: I call you, you you say hello, because he was so
Speaker 1: be fuddled. When I give you the information, you call
Speaker 1: me back with a confirmation, and when we go to
Speaker 1: hang up, you say goodbye. You just don't drop the phone.
Speaker 1: And you remember I was yelling at this point. I
Speaker 1: came around at Allison, standing this, because who are you
Speaker 1: talking to you? Um? So you did casting for nineteen years? Yes?
Speaker 1: Is that right? Approximately? So someone found this quote that
Speaker 1: you said for nineteen years. That's what I did. I
Speaker 1: examined the character, the truth of it, and I think
Speaker 1: that I didn't know it at the time, but I
Speaker 1: was learning. I don't remember saying that. Does that sound right? Well?
Speaker 1: What I have said in various interviews is that I
Speaker 1: was probably honing a craft that I didn't know I
Speaker 1: was honing. I was never in the forefront of my
Speaker 1: mind and I can honestly say I never thought that
Speaker 1: I would be an actor. You know. It was never
Speaker 1: something I went, Oh, I wonder if there's a role
Speaker 1: for me. At one point I was trying to get
Speaker 1: into commercials and and like acting commercials, and then life
Speaker 1: changed and I ended up. Well, you know how I
Speaker 1: got into casting, right? Do you know that how did
Speaker 1: into casting? I don't know that. Well. I was working
Speaker 1: as a receptionist in an aerospace defense company in Sherman Oaks.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine called, who had worked for Stuart
Speaker 1: Stu Billet Productions on a court show and they said,
Speaker 1: Phyllis they need a mousey woman for a court show.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, man, I didn't want to. I
Speaker 1: wasn't actively auditioning or going out. I was being a
Speaker 1: receptionist and I had one hour for lunch. I had
Speaker 1: to go over the hill to do this audition, and
Speaker 1: in process. At this time, this was the olden days,
Speaker 1: we wore nylons and I went to the bathroom and
Speaker 1: as I was pulling them up, I ripped a huge hole.
Speaker 1: Night My entire me was out of my my nie.
Speaker 1: So I walked into the audition and I said, excuse me,
Speaker 1: are you looking for mousey or lifted up my skirt
Speaker 1: or tacky, and so we ended up in a conversation
Speaker 1: and and I wasn't mousey enough to be a mousey
Speaker 1: woman sing. But in the course of the conversation, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I might be good in casting.
Speaker 1: And about a year later she called me, and that's
Speaker 1: how I ended up. And I was at the lowest.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to do everything, everything that nobody
Speaker 1: else wanted to do. I was there doing what it
Speaker 1: was this like three hundred a week or my first
Speaker 1: job was two fifty bucks a week, and I was thrilled.
Speaker 1: But it have been about three what would yours have
Speaker 1: been probably in late eighties. Yeah, so I was a
Speaker 1: little bit earlier, but two and fifty bucks a week
Speaker 1: was huge. Yeap. So that's how I ended up in
Speaker 1: the casting. And then it just now it's a thing
Speaker 1: people want to do. Shockingly, we just sort of ended
Speaker 1: up in it. Um, did you feel the casting process
Speaker 1: of of casting The Office was was different than any
Speaker 1: other show that you had done before. I think it
Speaker 1: was because the the material was so different from the
Speaker 1: other the other shows. It was a give and take
Speaker 1: and it was jo you know, and this was completely
Speaker 1: a different style. It would say, if you think you're
Speaker 1: doing too little, you're still doing too much, right, because
Speaker 1: we had every direction to give everybody, everybody pull it down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have the original audition I have for stand uh
Speaker 1: Leslie in my office. I left the camera running by mistake,
Speaker 1: and it shows me explaining the genre of the show
Speaker 1: and how it's going to be a fake documentary. And
Speaker 1: I think you walked by in the background, by the way,
Speaker 1: and I'm, you know, just saying and there's poor poor
Speaker 1: Leslie going m h. And I was just kept repeating,
Speaker 1: it's less is more, it's it has to feel like
Speaker 1: it's a documentary like in the British show blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But that was what we stressed. Was there
Speaker 1: anyone Was there someone that you remember fighting for that
Speaker 1: was cast or wasn't cast? Better you were in the
Speaker 1: rooms because you were reading with these actors, so you
Speaker 1: had a better feel for it. But you read with them.
Speaker 1: I read them with them until Ken Koppus came up
Speaker 1: to me and said, could you let Phillis read because
Speaker 1: I think she'd be good in the show. I didn't
Speaker 1: saying the same thing. I mean she got it because
Speaker 1: Ken thought she was good, but she said, let Phillis read.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a great idea. Um. So Phillis
Speaker 1: then went in and started reading with all the actors
Speaker 1: and she was remember being scared. Though I'm sure you
Speaker 1: were scared because I didn't want to screw it up.
Speaker 1: I didn't know he was auditioning. Yeah, no, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I was frightened because I wanted to do a good
Speaker 1: job for the actors. And I read with Rain, and
Speaker 1: then another time I read with Krauzinski, and I remember
Speaker 1: when when I read with him, I thought, oh, that's
Speaker 1: that's the one. It just felt right. I remember remember
Speaker 1: John sitting out in the reception area and he had
Speaker 1: you had put him on tape, like the first day
Speaker 1: he was put on tape in New York. I remember
Speaker 1: we had the same man's Jake Cruce sweater on. I
Speaker 1: remember thinking, oh, I hope he doesn't notice this was brown,
Speaker 1: mind was Green's so funny? Yeah, Well, they were all
Speaker 1: sitting there, and then the second day he didn't get
Speaker 1: called back either way, and he just was like very nervous.
Speaker 1: And he later had told me he thought it was
Speaker 1: because he didn't do well, the first day, and in
Speaker 1: reality it was the reverse that I think he had
Speaker 1: already already gotten made an impression. And and and I
Speaker 1: remember BJ sitting out there just he looked like he
Speaker 1: was petrified. Yeah he I don't I didn't know him.
Speaker 1: I didn't know his personality, you know. Now, that's just
Speaker 1: the way he looks, I know. But at the time
Speaker 1: he looked like and he didn't engage with people, he
Speaker 1: didn't talk or what's goot put him? You know. But
Speaker 1: then I realized that was part of his My big
Speaker 1: fear in all the casting situations when you mix and matches,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how bad are they going to feel
Speaker 1: if they don't get called back in? I hate that.
Speaker 1: And then Steve, Steve came in day two because he
Speaker 1: because he was still whatever it was, he was still
Speaker 1: hooked into the other NBC shows, they let him come
Speaker 1: in on the second day. What was your impression of Steve?
Speaker 1: I thought he was brilliant, you know, right off I
Speaker 1: told him that I was for me, it was a
Speaker 1: toss up because Odin Kirk was so cool. And so
Speaker 1: then you said that when I was watching the tape
Speaker 1: of Steve, who was the other guy that well, there was.
Speaker 1: There was also Paul if Tompkins and really good people
Speaker 1: that were testing. But it came down to between oden
Speaker 1: Kirk and Carrol. But it would have been a different
Speaker 1: It would have been a different different Michael with oden Kirk.
Speaker 1: But you had said to me that when I was
Speaker 1: watching the monitor watching Steve's test, and I was doubled
Speaker 1: over with laughter, and Gregg noticed that, Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: always thought that was because yes, you're having a hard
Speaker 1: time keeping it. Oh my god, yes, yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 1: What um So you knew way before that they were
Speaker 1: considering that that Ken was considering Phillis. Oh no, like
Speaker 1: an hour before we were reading that day, and said,
Speaker 1: could you just switch you do the camera? You do
Speaker 1: this lit Phillis reach And I was at the coffee
Speaker 1: trying to make sure everything was at the coffee and
Speaker 1: Kim came up and he said, Phillis, someone should read
Speaker 1: the character of Pam today and I went, okay. So
Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe one of the PAMs is is
Speaker 1: going to be late or I didn't know the why.
Speaker 1: And then I was nervous because I didn't know that
Speaker 1: you knew, and I was like concerned that I was
Speaker 1: going to be doing something out of line for my job,
Speaker 1: you know. So you knew all of that, and no
Speaker 1: one really ever came to me. Wardrobe was actually the
Speaker 1: first one who called and said, I understand you're playing
Speaker 1: the character of Phillis, and I went, yes, I am. Um.
Speaker 1: So you didn't get to tell her, not for years. No, No,
Speaker 1: but you didn't. You didn't get to tell her that
Speaker 1: she had been cast. I guess Wardrobe told I was
Speaker 1: in on it and didn't tell her. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the day that you came in, Yes, to our office, No,
Speaker 1: to the producers session. We were over where we where
Speaker 1: we shot there first. Yeah, and um we had to
Speaker 1: go from to get the actors. We had to go
Speaker 1: about a block and a half within the building to
Speaker 1: bring him back to the little where we were recording.
Speaker 1: And so as a result, the session we were ran,
Speaker 1: she ran the sessions on time. You didn't sit when
Speaker 1: you went to Allison's. Yeah, you you went in. But
Speaker 1: for some reason that day we were behind. We were
Speaker 1: really behind. And I remember Leslie had another audition to
Speaker 1: go to, so we said, go ahead, go to your
Speaker 1: audition and come back. So he went to his audition,
Speaker 1: He came back he fought the traffic and he was
Speaker 1: in a real priming when he came in and must have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you remember when Gregg jumped out the windows? Exactly
Speaker 1: what I was going to say to you. I was
Speaker 1: just in a casting session. Just Perkins was there and
Speaker 1: she yeah, we were. Was it at the beginning before
Speaker 1: the lunch hour or it was, but it was we were.
Speaker 1: Had all had to sit at a conference table in
Speaker 1: that the room that you didn't have to go into
Speaker 1: when you read. You didn't see that, but that's where
Speaker 1: we cast everybody else. And now there was and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Greg just gets up and jumps out
Speaker 1: this window, opened the window and jumped out the window,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the window was close to the ground. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: and then Nancy Perkins, in a thick Boston accent, said said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I've heard of produces wanting to jump
Speaker 1: out the window before, but he just did it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all just looke. He didn't have to get a
Speaker 1: sweater in his car something. I don't know why he
Speaker 1: did it, but it was funny. We just looked at
Speaker 1: each other. He also used to graph the qualities of actors.
Speaker 1: Um He had a graph and he would like put
Speaker 1: what he needed and what he saw, and he would
Speaker 1: literally graph the qualities of actors. He has a I
Speaker 1: may have that he had a very scientific mind, uh
Speaker 1: when it came to things like that, and that of
Speaker 1: course drove me nuts. But he would always say that
Speaker 1: he was less instinct and more thinking, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about it. Who would you put with this? And who
Speaker 1: would you who would go with that? If you had
Speaker 1: these two people, who would be this person? He thought
Speaker 1: about it very carefully and it certainly worked on the office.
Speaker 1: But jumping out the window, you and I were very fancy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he jumped out the window. And now
Speaker 1: we know that's kind of normal, but it was terrific.
Speaker 1: Produces one to jump out the window before. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: I it's interesting because of you talking about that on
Speaker 1: the casting side, because what we've been told by some
Speaker 1: of the writers was one of the exercises that they did.
Speaker 1: They called them unlikely duos or something like that, and
Speaker 1: everyone's name would be on the wall, right, So Kevin
Speaker 1: and Phillis and Michael and Dwight and and one of
Speaker 1: their exercises was take two characters that you wouldn't put together,
Speaker 1: and let's put them together and then have some story
Speaker 1: about that. Interesting. Yeah, but it's interesting on from the
Speaker 1: casting perspective, from the beginning, wanting to he does that's
Speaker 1: at least how he did it with the office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would ask everybody, you know, would you rather have
Speaker 1: this person or this person? And then if you have
Speaker 1: this person, would you have to have this person or
Speaker 1: this person? But he was a very um pensive and
Speaker 1: thoughtful person that way. And those are the like the
Speaker 1: people that we've had the privileged to work for, Mitch
Speaker 1: Herwitz and Judd Apatow and Paul fig They do think
Speaker 1: about things in a different way to make the whole
Speaker 1: greater than the sum of its parts. They all have
Speaker 1: strange ways and interesting ways of thinking. I call it comedy. Aspergers, Sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great. Why do you think the two of
Speaker 1: you worked so well together? Kind of laid back and
Speaker 1: we enjoyed it, right, We had a lot of laughs.
Speaker 1: And I truly I'm not just saying this because she's
Speaker 1: sitting here. She can remember every actor that not only
Speaker 1: opened their mouth to her, but walk in, you know,
Speaker 1: just walk she has. And she was never afraid to
Speaker 1: go out and find new talent. She just had an
Speaker 1: eye she had an eye for somebody that was unique
Speaker 1: and different, and so did you though I just a
Speaker 1: little anecdote. We cast a show called spin City when
Speaker 1: it was it was a spin City or Battery Park
Speaker 1: that you meant to. When she was six, we're at
Speaker 1: Radford and Phillis was reading kids for a one line
Speaker 1: role on a Christmas episode or something, and Phillis said, Allison,
Speaker 1: I read this girl, but come on in and we'll
Speaker 1: read her again, because you've never seen anything like this.
Speaker 1: And it was six year old Da Code of Fanning
Speaker 1: reading one line about being an orphan or something, and
Speaker 1: Phillis literally was like, I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1: She was wondering. She was amazing. So Dakoda Fanning and
Speaker 1: Chila Book go down for me as the best child
Speaker 1: actors I've ever seen. Wow. Um, when you guys walked
Speaker 1: in and you saw each other, what is it about
Speaker 1: the history between you two that I feel so special?
Speaker 1: We just love you, We just love each other. And
Speaker 1: she's hilarious and we had a lot of good laughs.
Speaker 1: We did we yeah, a lot of good Yeah. We
Speaker 1: enjoyed it and love actors and basically a great just
Speaker 1: a great like ultimately who cares, so let's just have fun. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: she's a dear person and we work together for a
Speaker 1: long time, and she always knew my sisters and stuff,
Speaker 1: my brothers. Yeah. Yeah, when we come back, we're gonna
Speaker 1: kick Alison out and Phillis and I uh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: sit down for a chat together. It's a hard time
Speaker 1: for hiring, so you need a hiring partner built for
Speaker 1: hard times. That's Indeed. If you're hiring, you need Indeed
Speaker 1: because Indeed is the hiring partner where you can attract, interview,
Speaker 1: and hire all in one place. And Indeed is the
Speaker 1: only job site where you're guaranteed to find quality applications
Speaker 1: that meet your must have requirements or else you don't pay.
Speaker 1: Instead of spending hours on multiple job sites hoping to
Speaker 1: find candidates with the right skills, you need one hiring
Speaker 1: partner that can help you do at all. Indeed partners
Speaker 1: with you on every step of the hiring process, find
Speaker 1: great talent through time saving tools like Indeed, instant match
Speaker 1: assessments and virtual interviews. With instant Match, as soon as
Speaker 1: you sponsor a post, you get a short list of
Speaker 1: quality candidates with resumes on Indeed that match your job
Speaker 1: description and you can invite them to apply right away. Plus,
Speaker 1: you only pay for quality applications that meet your must
Speaker 1: have requirements. Join more than three million businesses worldwide that
Speaker 1: use Indeed to hire great talent fast. Start hiring right
Speaker 1: now with a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit to
Speaker 1: upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash office
Speaker 1: deep Dive offer valid through March thirty one. Go to
Speaker 1: indeed dot com slash office deep Dive to claim your
Speaker 1: seventy five dollar credit before March one. Indeed dot Com
Speaker 1: slash Office Deep Dive terms and conditions apply. Need to
Speaker 1: you need Indeed. I felt I can't. That's what you've
Speaker 1: been in my life for so long, Bribe, I know. Well, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we sort of talked about UM. I think it's
Speaker 1: fascinating that you were casting all of these shows and
Speaker 1: never had a thought. I truly, I can honestly say
Speaker 1: that that was not I thought that ship had sailed
Speaker 1: and so, UM, I don't know, it's just meant to
Speaker 1: be and it's changed my life completely. Yeah, completely in
Speaker 1: a good way. You know, did you have any training? No? No,
Speaker 1: I I'm Alan Hockberg, who I worked for on Dr
Speaker 1: Quinn Medicine woman. I worked with him for about six years,
Speaker 1: six or seven years, and he actually taught me how
Speaker 1: to hold the parricides and read with an actor and
Speaker 1: and so he was instrumental in helping me to learn
Speaker 1: how to read with an actor and treat an actor.
Speaker 1: And and then when Alison, she was another person who
Speaker 1: really a lot of casting directors did not get involved
Speaker 1: when they read with actors, as you know, but Allison
Speaker 1: really gave her all when she read with people. So
Speaker 1: again being in the room and watching her interact with
Speaker 1: the actor and watching the actors, Um, it's just I
Speaker 1: don't know, Well, it's it's funny because I've heard of
Speaker 1: people I never did this, but I've heard of actors
Speaker 1: who will find an inn with a casting director to
Speaker 1: be the person who reads with Yeah. There used to
Speaker 1: happen all the time, right because they wanted to see,
Speaker 1: you know, actors performances and be privy to the conversations
Speaker 1: about why that person got cast and that person got cast.
Speaker 1: It always seemed like kind of a smart thing, you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to go in and hear what people
Speaker 1: were talking about or what they were responding to or
Speaker 1: you as an actor learning tips from that, and it's
Speaker 1: so fascinating that you were doing that for nineteen years
Speaker 1: but I didn't. But you weren't even trying it, just
Speaker 1: it just came in right. It wasn't My job at
Speaker 1: that time was to do the best that I could
Speaker 1: for the actor to get the job, or to cipher
Speaker 1: out who shouldn't be there and who should be there,
Speaker 1: you know, but it turned out okay, turned out okay. Um,
Speaker 1: so you got a call from wardrobe, so at this
Speaker 1: point you have no idea. I just thought it was
Speaker 1: odd that day that Kim came to me. I really
Speaker 1: felt nervous because I didn't want to step on Allison's toe.
Speaker 1: Was um, I think there was a fact that came through.
Speaker 1: They had the character of Phyllis there, but we didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to even believe that it was going
Speaker 1: to be a possibility. And as soon as wardrobe calls
Speaker 1: then I because nobody ever came human said hey, do
Speaker 1: you want to be in the show. You never really auditioned. No,
Speaker 1: I guess I auditioned, but didn't know I was auditioning,
Speaker 1: which is another thank you, because I would have been
Speaker 1: completely if I was nervous enough wanting to do a
Speaker 1: good job for the people I was reading with. Had
Speaker 1: I known he was actually watching me. But you know what,
Speaker 1: they did use a tape of my reading at the network.
Speaker 1: One of the tapes that they presented I was reading
Speaker 1: was someone so it was covered in the long run,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know any of that at the time. Amazing.
Speaker 1: I think that is best story ever. Think some actors think,
Speaker 1: you know, not our group of people. But I've run
Speaker 1: across other people sometime and they if they hear this story,
Speaker 1: they go, oh, you know, they're kind of a little
Speaker 1: bit like, well, look I studied it, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and so they're not too thrilled with it. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to what you know, the producers
Speaker 1: and and Greg and Ben and and and and Ricky
Speaker 1: and Stephen were looking for in in this that they
Speaker 1: were really looking for normal people, people not known faces
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form, and just people that
Speaker 1: go to an office. You know. Yeah, um, I think
Speaker 1: that potentially Phyllis and Kevin were the butt of a
Speaker 1: lot of jokes. We were. We were definitely the butt
Speaker 1: of a lot of maybe not all, but a lot.
Speaker 1: Um Did you did I take offense to that or anything,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. I have to say though, when they
Speaker 1: wanted me to carry Angela on my back in the finale,
Speaker 1: that I thought, okay, that's a little much. First of all, physically,
Speaker 1: I'm not wasn't sure how it was going to play out.
Speaker 1: But then they took care of it and at all,
Speaker 1: you know, with with the stunts and boards and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And I actually carried her like once or
Speaker 1: twice down the aisle, but but that was just a
Speaker 1: tinge to my feeling. Well that's a little bit over there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I certainly had some of those things as well. I
Speaker 1: think that my I was told at some point. I
Speaker 1: think it was it was either season seven or season eight.
Speaker 1: We were talking about going forward without Steve, and I
Speaker 1: was talking to some of the higher ups and they said, well,
Speaker 1: we can't loose it was Kevin, because now that Michael's gone,
Speaker 1: we have nobody else to do really really stupid things.
Speaker 1: So that's what they were told. Because I started doing
Speaker 1: a ton of the physical stuff to it. There was
Speaker 1: oil in the warehouse and slipping around and doing all
Speaker 1: this stuff. And I remember and like rain on my
Speaker 1: back on the filing cabinet, like giving me a massage,
Speaker 1: And there were a few times I went to them
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, guys, I am not a
Speaker 1: cartoon character. There are physical limitations to what I can do,
Speaker 1: so you can't just write anything, and they go, oh, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: he can do that, of course. Yeah. I was always
Speaker 1: grateful to get a line that would be like that.
Speaker 1: You know, you get a script and you start thumbing
Speaker 1: through it as a oh wow, I've got three four,
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was. I was grateful to get a line.
Speaker 1: Did you communicate much with the writers about I never did.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was had. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: that if that was permissible. I hadn't been in those
Speaker 1: shoes before as an as an actor. So whatever they
Speaker 1: gave me, I I was glad I got. You know,
Speaker 1: I was more unhappy when I didn't get something than
Speaker 1: than what I did get. Do you feel like there
Speaker 1: were things specific to you that influenced the character of
Speaker 1: Phyllis um Golly? I think well, with my personnelity, I
Speaker 1: sometimes like off, can I can be sarcastic, you know,
Speaker 1: in a sweet way, and so I must have done
Speaker 1: that to somebody somewhere along the line, and they kind
Speaker 1: of picked up on it. Um, I was, I don't
Speaker 1: you know, I never are these the questions I should
Speaker 1: be asking when I have a character? No, I mean
Speaker 1: I think I mean, as it creating a character, this
Speaker 1: is no. I think it's more you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering because I don't know the answer is
Speaker 1: like did you have you know, whether you saw something
Speaker 1: in yourself that sort of came through. I just tried
Speaker 1: to do it from my gut because I didn't have
Speaker 1: anything else to work from. So if I got the line,
Speaker 1: I would try to deliver it a couple of different
Speaker 1: ways with a different feeling. And um, And like I said,
Speaker 1: I never really thought of like a backstory for Phillis.
Speaker 1: I never had that knowledge to do that are the
Speaker 1: tools to do that. I just went from my gut
Speaker 1: and she just and however people perceived her, then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that's what she'd be given. And like
Speaker 1: I always loved my interactions with Michael because we were
Speaker 1: so competitive in high school and you know, right, But
Speaker 1: then I think another significant would be Angela. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a perfect you know the fact that I
Speaker 1: was so much larger than she was, but she tried
Speaker 1: to rule me. Uh, and I completely what is the word, yeah,
Speaker 1: ys to to what she wanted until I got to
Speaker 1: the point that I couldn't stand her, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's kind of way I do in life. I take, take, take,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden I'd blow up. So
Speaker 1: so yes it is. Yeah, look, it took all that
Speaker 1: time to get to that point. Um, but luckily for Phillis,
Speaker 1: you walked in on Angela and Twite. Oh yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: which shifted the whole balance of power. I I was
Speaker 1: the one in in charge then, all right, right, that
Speaker 1: must have been fun. Oh it was the best. Like
Speaker 1: when I swooped everything off the desk that wasn't nobody
Speaker 1: told me to do that. I just did it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the arc of Angela being the my nemesis
Speaker 1: to my becoming her nemesis. Right right, I didn't think
Speaker 1: about it like that before. About right, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Do you have any favorite episodes? There's so many though
Speaker 1: that I mean, there's moments I think I've talked about
Speaker 1: one before where Dwighton and Michael they bumped chest and
Speaker 1: they go, we did it, and then they go, what
Speaker 1: do we do? I don't know, it's just a stupid
Speaker 1: little but it kind of like encapsulates the the whole
Speaker 1: feeling of the office is like they're doing something and
Speaker 1: then what we do. You know, M favorite episodes that
Speaker 1: i've you know when of course my wedding, and I
Speaker 1: love the scene that you and I did together when
Speaker 1: I was in charge of trying and you came in
Speaker 1: you wanted money. That was really one of the first
Speaker 1: scenes that I ever had one on one with you,
Speaker 1: and it felt really real. I enjoyed iron I think
Speaker 1: I said something to you that day after the scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, whoever we were paired off with on that
Speaker 1: particular day or episode or whatever, it was generally exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: A good A good deal. I love the episode where
Speaker 1: Dwight kind of I hurt my back at the disco
Speaker 1: and he takes and treats me as if I'm a
Speaker 1: farm animal. Do you remember not, I mean, not necessarily
Speaker 1: where you were or what, but hearing that that Steve
Speaker 1: was going to leave, Oh man, that was the It
Speaker 1: was like somebody punched you in the stomach, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: I remember just being very sad about it, right because
Speaker 1: I I liked him so much as a person. I
Speaker 1: respected him so much as an actor. I I thought
Speaker 1: he had brought so much heart to the to the office,
Speaker 1: to the show, and I was really nervous about how
Speaker 1: that void was going to be filled, not only you know,
Speaker 1: as his acting abilities, but also is a he was
Speaker 1: just a good guy. Yeah. I remember feeling way more
Speaker 1: emotional about him leaving than even the end of the show.
Speaker 1: I think because I felt like, you know, like a
Speaker 1: kid when mom and dad leaves or something. It's like, well, now,
Speaker 1: now what And there's actually one of the I think
Speaker 1: one of my personal favorite lines was when he proposed
Speaker 1: it to Holly and the rains coming down and we're
Speaker 1: getting soaked by all the sprinklers and he says we're
Speaker 1: going to Colorado, and Kevin says all of us, And
Speaker 1: there was just something so sort of beautiful about that,
Speaker 1: and then the realization that no, you no, no, he
Speaker 1: was he was leaving. Yeah, you know, when you you
Speaker 1: talked about when the show ended in after the ninth season,
Speaker 1: that was tough, tough night, especially when Creed started singing.
Speaker 1: But for me it was really tough, like months later
Speaker 1: after the show had ended, and we generally would go
Speaker 1: back to work around July or August. That's when it
Speaker 1: set in that, oh, this is life's different now you
Speaker 1: know we're not going back. Yeah. When I sat down
Speaker 1: with Greg before that last season or moving into the
Speaker 1: finale and we started talking about, you know, my life's
Speaker 1: journey at that point through the office and Kevin, and
Speaker 1: my experience was people feeling like they knew me and
Speaker 1: specifically feeling like I was the guy that they wanted
Speaker 1: to get a drink with and I would. I said
Speaker 1: something to him like Greg, I can't go into a
Speaker 1: bar without getting bought multiple drinks. Like they just come
Speaker 1: to the point I and I'm good, No, thank you, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good. Now. I gotta I gotta stop now. Guys,
Speaker 1: at least people that call you Kevin, you know that
Speaker 1: they know you from this show. You me when people
Speaker 1: say Phillis, I have to think for a moment, Okay,
Speaker 1: do I have our paths crossed for a moment, do
Speaker 1: I know you? Or But in reality I do know
Speaker 1: them or they know me because I've been in their bedroom,
Speaker 1: in their living room, in their kitchen, and before they
Speaker 1: go to work and as they go to sleep, and
Speaker 1: so we are a part of our fans lives you know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but at least you can decipher yours a little better.
Speaker 1: With Kevin and Brian, that's true. I've never thought about
Speaker 1: that before Phyllis or Creed or Oscar or Angela. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and especially if they say oh I saw you, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, now did I you know, to go
Speaker 1: to school with them or what? Right? That's actually the
Speaker 1: most difficult. Well, I have two difficult fan interactions. One
Speaker 1: is I'll be at a at a serious place of business,
Speaker 1: like like in a thing, and I'm meeting someone. Or
Speaker 1: I have a good friend who's introducing me to a
Speaker 1: good friend who says like, oh, we've met before, right,
Speaker 1: And I immediately go, no, I know we haven't, and
Speaker 1: I know why you think before. But then to say
Speaker 1: that you become like I don't know, You're like you know,
Speaker 1: I was on a television show, you know, Like so yeah.
Speaker 1: For me, I love all the fan interaction I have.
Speaker 1: I really haven't had an The hardest part for me
Speaker 1: is at a funeral that's really awkward. I've had it
Speaker 1: happened twice, and I just have to say, you know
Speaker 1: I'm here because of this, not Or if you're at
Speaker 1: a wedding and because I tend to forget, you know.
Speaker 1: I when I go to a wedding, I go to
Speaker 1: a wedding because I like the person. But other than that,
Speaker 1: I have no problem with them coming up to me.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to buy me a drink. I don't drink.
Speaker 1: But I think it's the specific Yeah, and part it's
Speaker 1: the specific character. Um, do you remember me. You talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about it. Creed's last song like that.
Speaker 1: That that's the moment that you remember about the finale,
Speaker 1: And that's the whole finale was, you know, driving out
Speaker 1: to that ranch out in the middle of nowhere, and
Speaker 1: it was a total surprise to me. I didn't know
Speaker 1: Steve was going to come back, and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: just so thrilled to even seem out alone having been
Speaker 1: the finale and that was the best to have a
Speaker 1: full reunion for the finale. So you didn't know until
Speaker 1: you saw him there. So I'm in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night getting out of my car and there he was,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm going, oh my god, it's so great. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had no idea it was coming back because they
Speaker 1: hid it in the script. It was not in the script.
Speaker 1: I somehow knew the night before. I don't remember. I
Speaker 1: don't remember how, but like literally the night before or
Speaker 1: something like that. It was more like don't you tell
Speaker 1: a soul? But and I don't remember who told me whatever,
Speaker 1: but I remember it shocking. What's in his line his
Speaker 1: talking head about the your your children marrying each other,
Speaker 1: well and just the that's what she said. This is
Speaker 1: the first thing out of his mouth, just so perfect. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that people don't realize now, like
Speaker 1: when you watch it on Netflix. At the time, it
Speaker 1: was such a big surprise because everyone was asking and
Speaker 1: everyone was saying no, right because we assumed that it
Speaker 1: was and no, but I mean even him and gregged
Speaker 1: and then net work didn't know, like nobody knew. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: now when you watch the show, you know that not
Speaker 1: as much build up. Um. What do you think it
Speaker 1: is about the show that makes people respond so crazy
Speaker 1: to it? Now? Golly, I don't know. People say they'll
Speaker 1: come up and they say, I just love your you know,
Speaker 1: they love this, or they love that, and they have
Speaker 1: a Dwight in their office, or they have a Kevin
Speaker 1: in their office, or they have you know, they have
Speaker 1: those people so they can relate in some way to
Speaker 1: the various characters. Um, but it was just different, you know,
Speaker 1: it took a bold step and in today's world, it's
Speaker 1: some of it may cross the lines. You know. Things
Speaker 1: are so politically correct nowadays. So uh and little kids
Speaker 1: look at that, a six year old who was asking
Speaker 1: as questions who they were so intelligent and informed and
Speaker 1: and to me, six is a little young to be
Speaker 1: involved in the show. But what do you think. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's just about the characters and
Speaker 1: that it's it's a workplace comedy. But really it's a family, right,
Speaker 1: a family. Yeah, we've we've we've become enmeshed in each
Speaker 1: other's lives. Uh. Yeah, what was it all about for you? Um?
Speaker 1: We became family over the nine years. We didn't nobody
Speaker 1: really knew each other, but we all grew up together
Speaker 1: in a nine year period and it was one of
Speaker 1: the best parts of my life. Yeah. Yeah, Phillis, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming out, Thank you for thinking
Speaker 1: of me. I love you so much. I'm so honored
Speaker 1: to call myself your friend. And we share something that
Speaker 1: will never ever go away. Exactly. We're hard to heart. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: well it doesn't doesn't get any better than her. Thank
Speaker 1: you Phillis, thank you Allison Jones again for joining me, um,
Speaker 1: and thanks to all of you once again for listening.
Speaker 1: Have a stuppendous week this week. Let's have the best
Speaker 1: week ever and I will see you next time for
Speaker 1: another installment of the Office Deep Dive. The Office Deep
Speaker 1: Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is
Speaker 1: Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our
Speaker 1: assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My man in the booth
Speaker 1: is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 1: by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was
Speaker 1: mixed by Seth Olandsky.