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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: There a quick note before we start. Most of you

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Speaker 2: loved listening to ads. I know that, but if you don't,

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Speaker 2: here's an option. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: You'll get ten episodes of Empire on Blood the Director's

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Speaker 2: Cut ad free in one week early with exclusive bonus content,

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Speaker 2: and it's a mere two ninety nine a month. Previously

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Speaker 2: on Empire on Blood.

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Speaker 3: Everything was on the news.

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Speaker 2: You made it even in the papers.

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Speaker 3: All of course that one corner.

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Speaker 4: Oh excuse, I think they intentionally did wrong work in

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Speaker 4: the Canvin case.

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Speaker 3: Yes, from what I can see so.

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Speaker 5: Far, they don't care.

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Speaker 1: You have to realize that not everybody.

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Speaker 6: Can people like me Este.

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Speaker 5: Most of these guys in jail, I mean, that's all

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Speaker 5: they knew was try to figure out how they gotta

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Speaker 5: get out.

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Speaker 3: So I knew it was all bullshit.

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Speaker 2: I'm in jail for the rest of the life.

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Speaker 3: Guess what with no family?

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Speaker 2: Talk about a.

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Speaker 3: Hard bit.

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Speaker 2: You say you're I mean, do people ever find you

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Speaker 2: a little weird?

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Speaker 3: Different, different?

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Speaker 5: I don't care about being politically correct, and I don't

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Speaker 5: search for the correct answers.

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Speaker 3: I'll blurt it out. I'll tell you what I think.

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Speaker 3: Tell you what.

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Speaker 5: I think it's better that way up front, it is.

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Speaker 5: It's very good way to be. I don't care about

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Speaker 5: offending others.

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Speaker 2: Joe Barry and I are sitting in a booth at

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Speaker 2: my bar in Brooklyn. Did I mention that I own

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Speaker 2: a bar. It's named Herbs after my father, Rest his soul.

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Speaker 2: We just expanded and hey, I'm proud of it. Bigger

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Speaker 2: glasses is what you need? This will do the trick.

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Speaker 3: Tands me a little cooler. Need to get rid of

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Speaker 3: the flies.

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Speaker 7: Not good?

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Speaker 3: Your average? Not that your average?

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Speaker 8: All right?

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Speaker 4: What are you up to?

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Speaker 3: I can't believe you think my bar is average. Jesus

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Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. I'm ready to have another glass of wine

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Speaker 3: if you don't mind. He's not at all. And I'm

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Speaker 3: want to know I served these things a big old

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Speaker 3: classes man.

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Speaker 2: Joe So, this critic of booze portions, is also a

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Speaker 2: private investigator. He's Calvin Buari's private investigator. Years ago. I

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Speaker 2: signed on as a journalist to get to the bottom

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Speaker 2: of Cal's case. And I try. I talk to people,

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Speaker 2: even track down some new witnesses. But more than twenty

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Speaker 2: years have gone by since the Harris brothers were murdered.

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Speaker 2: I'm stalled, and frankly, my enthusiasm for this project isn't

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Speaker 2: what it wants was Cal's case is not good for

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Speaker 2: my career. Editors don't want the story. I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: wean myself off the case. Frankly, that's when Joe enters

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Speaker 2: with his different approach.

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Speaker 3: Ways are unorthodox. My methods are unorthodox.

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Speaker 5: I step on the gray line, which you're supposed to

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Speaker 5: be on one side of the gray line, and if

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Speaker 5: you're on the other side of the gray line, you're.

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Speaker 3: Evil or bad. I on the gray.

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Speaker 2: Line, the gray line. What does he mean? Well, Joe

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Speaker 2: once tracked a witness down on a golf course during

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Speaker 2: the guy's Sunday force him. Another time, Joe climbed a

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Speaker 2: fire escape when a witness wouldn't answer the door. He

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Speaker 2: likes ruses, as he says, likes to pose as a

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Speaker 2: flower delivery guy, anything to get in the door.

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Speaker 5: Whatever it takes to get the information I need, you lige, Joe, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I do. I'm honest about it. If I'm not a liar,

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Speaker 5: I can't work. But I'm not a liar because I'm

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Speaker 5: a fraud. There's a difference. I'm a liar because I

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Speaker 5: want to do good. From Orbit Media.

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Speaker 2: This is Empire on Blood, a story of murder, betrayal

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Speaker 2: and a man who fought the law for two decades

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Speaker 2: and of one hard drinking, honest liar of a private eye.

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Speaker 2: I'm Steve Fishman. How did col find Joe Barry? It

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Speaker 2: goes back to someone we met in the first episode,

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Speaker 2: Email McDowell. He was in prison with Cal helped Cow

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Speaker 2: with his legal case. As a rule, Cow distrusted just

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Speaker 2: about everybody inside, but he befriended Email. Email and Cal

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Speaker 2: they had a crucial bond.

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Speaker 6: We were two inmates who were We were trying to

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Speaker 6: plot ways to get our freedom, improve our innocence, and

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Speaker 6: support each other. Neither one of us knew if we

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Speaker 6: would ever get out of prison, because we both had

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Speaker 6: sentences that ended with life.

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Speaker 2: On a back. Email organized events in prison. I know

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Speaker 2: that sounds weird events in prison, but Email's energetic. He

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Speaker 2: was president of the local Junior Chamber of Commerce, a

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Speaker 2: chapter inside prison, and every month he hosted a get

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Speaker 2: together of inmates. They were linked by a common affection

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Speaker 2: for the Chamber of Commerce and for the soda, pizza

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Speaker 2: and barbecue chicken wings that Email served. They had a

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Speaker 2: party tradition inmates would sneak leftover pizza and wings back

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Speaker 2: to their cells in plastic bags they'd stuck down the

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Speaker 2: pants of their green uniforms. Corrections officers didn't mind, except

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Speaker 2: when they did. One day, an officer pops the plastic

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Speaker 2: bag inside Cow's.

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Speaker 6: Pants and that was one of the funniest things because

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Speaker 6: cal thinks.

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Speaker 2: He's like a smooth, cool guy.

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Speaker 6: So to have missed the smooth basically running back into

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Speaker 6: the cell block with hot wing sauce all over his

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Speaker 6: private parts and the chicken. I don't know if the

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Speaker 6: chicken fell out, because I asked them too. I'm like,

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Speaker 6: cal So, let me ask you this, did the chicken

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Speaker 6: wings fall out? And if they was in your drawers,

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Speaker 6: which you did with him, did you eat them? And

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Speaker 6: so you know, he didn't get mad, though he would

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Speaker 6: laugh and he's like, come on, bro, how you going

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Speaker 6: to say that?

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Speaker 3: But he's like almost in tears. Was He's like, dude,

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Speaker 3: like that's some bullshit.

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Speaker 2: Email was one of the few people who could actually

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Speaker 2: tease Cow, and then just before Christmas in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and nine, email Is sprung. He wrote his own appeal.

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Speaker 2: Email's murder conviction is vacated, and he makes a deal

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Speaker 2: to go home after nineteen years behind bars. On the

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Speaker 2: strength of the appeal, he wrote email, lands a job

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Speaker 2: at a criminal defense firm. His boss buys him a suit,

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Speaker 2: his first ever. He's busy on cases. He occasionally crosses

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Speaker 2: paths with the assistant district attorney who prosecuted him. Imagine

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Speaker 2: that meeting, but email. He doesn't forget his prison brother,

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Speaker 2: the one he left behind.

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Speaker 3: He didn't expect it.

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Speaker 6: I took a day off work and I drove to

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Speaker 6: green Haven, and you know, they called him down and

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Speaker 6: he was excited because last time he seen me, we

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Speaker 6: were both wearing State green. Most of that visit. It

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Speaker 6: was about two hours. He was smiling and I'm just like,

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Speaker 6: why are you smiling so much?

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Speaker 2: And You're just like, yo, girl, I'm.

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Speaker 6: Just so happy to see you, Like you came back

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Speaker 6: when you didn't have to, you know, And he said,

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Speaker 6: but you made it. He's like you out there, and

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Speaker 6: he was like, if you got out there, I know my.

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Speaker 2: Time gonna come. I know it's gonna come.

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Speaker 6: And I'm like, yoh, it's gonna come.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna come. If cal can keep people like Email

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Speaker 2: thinking about him helping him. But for the moment, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem likely that Cal's time will come anytime soon.

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Speaker 2: I visited him five years after Email's visit and Cal's

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Speaker 2: case it seems well, it seems hopeless.

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Speaker 9: I just recently had a dream about me and my mother,

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Speaker 9: you know, being home, to be there with my mother,

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Speaker 9: you know, and I know that this is a very

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Speaker 9: depressing thing for my mother. And it was funny in

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Speaker 9: the dream that Jonathan Fleming was also present. And I

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Speaker 9: haven't had a dream where I was outside of prison

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Speaker 9: in a long time.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: Fleming's a guy you knew in prison who's been exonerated.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, and he's been exonerated after twenty four years. And

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Speaker 9: it was so good to see the joy in my

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Speaker 9: mother's face, and you know, to also have Jonathan Fleming

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Speaker 9: there and supported me, who was also wrongly convicted. And

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Speaker 9: that was a beautiful Drina dream. I was with my

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Speaker 9: mother and yeah, I was with my mother in a

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Speaker 9: house and she was just so happy to just have

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Speaker 9: a son home.

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Speaker 2: That dream ended, like all Cal's dreams. He woke up

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Speaker 2: in the cell free in his dreams, caged when awake,

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Speaker 2: but Cal he endures he doubles down on discipline, lives

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Speaker 2: like a monk. He can't control events, but he can

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Speaker 2: control himself. He follows a rigid schedule Bible reading, tea,

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Speaker 2: jim shower, law work, letter writing, phone calling. As for meals,

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Speaker 2: he cooks for himself in the cell.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, every day with them the cell.

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Speaker 3: I alone in.

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Speaker 9: The cell, in your cell, Yeah, I'm alone in myself.

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Speaker 2: Cal controls his mind too. He puts himself on a

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Speaker 2: strict diet of positive thinking. Only books that help him

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Speaker 2: stay strong, Psalms in the morning, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But at the top of his reading us. It is

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Speaker 2: a surprising name, at least to me. James Allen British

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Speaker 2: born in eighteen sixty four, one year after the Emancipation

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Speaker 2: Proclamation took effect. He is the author of As a

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Speaker 2: Man Thinketh, published in nineteen oh three. From Across a Century,

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Speaker 2: James Allen has a message for Cal. He can create

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Speaker 2: his own reality. A man is literally what he thinks,

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Speaker 2: Alan writes, Cal embraces this lesson.

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Speaker 10: So I have invite to all my bed at all times,

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Speaker 10: and I'll always read it like whenever I just start

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Speaker 10: feeling a little frustrated or stress a little whatever, I'd

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Speaker 10: always pay it up and I'll read it.

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Speaker 8: No, probably you should check it out, Steve. This is

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Speaker 8: probably no more than forty pages, but it's through powerful

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Speaker 8: that both change my life.

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Speaker 2: Childally, I do check it out. It's not for me.

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Speaker 2: The pros is baroque, pompous. Alan seems like a skull

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Speaker 2: to me. But I take the point that nineteenth century

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Speaker 2: pamphleteer helps me understand Cal the control to paque persona,

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Speaker 2: which I sometimes find frustrating. That's because Cal bans negative

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Speaker 2: thoughts negative words. For Cal, positive thoughts lead to positive results,

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Speaker 2: just as James Allen says, and so Cal runs his

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Speaker 2: campaign for freedom with optimism, even if that campaign seems

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Speaker 2: increasingly hopeless to me. Cal won't register the setbacks, not

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Speaker 2: for long. I know. Cal sees me as part of

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Speaker 2: his campaign, hardly the only part, though. Cal has a

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Speaker 2: small platoon of helpers, women. Mostly they post flyers near

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Speaker 2: the scene of the crime asking for information. They had

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Speaker 2: ten rallies. Tracy Koit is one of Cal's supporters. In

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve, she attended a rally for the Wrongfully Convicted

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Speaker 2: in Brooklyn. She was wearing a T shirt with Cal's

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Speaker 2: photo on it. This is from a video posted on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: So Tracy is one soldier for Col's cause. Meanwhile, Cal

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Speaker 2: keeps calling me with assignments.

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Speaker 1: I told you, Steve, I said, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: glorify and glamorify that stuff. And I'm actually a little

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Speaker 1: appalled that you know, at this stage of my life

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Speaker 1: that I did some of the.

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Speaker 11: Remaining all right, Cal, sounds like they're going to cut

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Speaker 11: us off here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you able to get in touch with Jonathan?

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Speaker 2: That's Jonathan Fleming, the exonery who was in Cal's dream.

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Speaker 2: Cal thinks that Jonathan, being exonerated, might have special standing

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Speaker 2: to plead his case. I think Cal knows that that's

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Speaker 2: a straw he's yanking at. But Cal, at this point

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Speaker 2: will try everything, and so as James Allen advises patience

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Speaker 2: practice and ceaseless importunity.

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Speaker 12: I have.

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Speaker 11: I have reached out to Jonathan twice now and haven't

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Speaker 11: heard that. I texted him like you said, and I

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Speaker 11: also called him, uh second.

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Speaker 2: Remaining all right, Sometimes it seems like only the old dead.

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Speaker 2: James Allen is tuned to Cal's frequency. He writes, dreams

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Speaker 2: are the seedlings of realities, and Joe Barry well he

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Speaker 2: is Cow's latest dream. Hard bitten Joe knocking back Pino

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Speaker 2: Grigio at my bar. I got him a bigger class.

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Speaker 2: Are you carrying your are you carrying your equalizer?

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Speaker 4: Listen, old beloved, Oh beloved, Let's go pick this shirt up.

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Speaker 4: Let's see. Yeah, and that looks like the real thing.

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Speaker 4: That's the real thing. That's big it Coretto.

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Speaker 2: After the break, Joe Barry and I go on a

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Speaker 2: mission with a bottle of wine. We're back with Empire

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Speaker 2: on blood.

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Speaker 3: Joe, how much do you weigh? One hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: and how tall? A five to eleven.

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Speaker 2: Slim? Joe Barry had helped investigate Email McDowell's case, and

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Speaker 2: network helped get Email's conviction overturned. So Email recommended Joe.

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Speaker 2: But Joe is hard to get, not busy. Just selected

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Speaker 2: that rolled me for six months. I kept blowing them off.

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Speaker 2: But because he was.

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Speaker 3: Importune if that's the right word, or importunate, if.

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Speaker 5: That's the right word, I just shit, Okay, he just

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Speaker 5: didn't leave me alone. So I looked at it, and

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Speaker 5: I looked at it, and I looked at it.

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Speaker 3: I took a chance. Was I convinced up front?

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Speaker 7: No?

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Speaker 3: But I made it clear I don't want your money

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Speaker 3: and you don't need.

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Speaker 5: Me if you did this. He decided to pay me

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Speaker 5: and have people bring me money. Strangers I didn't even

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Speaker 5: know who they were, met me in Wars and Atlantic Avenue.

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Speaker 3: All kinds of females.

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Speaker 12: That guy.

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Speaker 3: I had a lot of women stashed around New York City.

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Speaker 2: Joe is sixty two. He dyes his hair where his

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Speaker 2: wife Grace does. It's golden brown today. He favors sunglasses,

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Speaker 2: carries a flip phone, and there's his physique. A man

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Speaker 2: Joe's heids should weigh one hundred and sixty five pounds

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Speaker 2: at least.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're about the right weight. You'd like to hate

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Speaker 3: a little or I lost a little on purpose.

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Speaker 2: Because it's a bikini season coming out, not at all.

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Speaker 5: I used to weigh one hundred and fifty. I got

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Speaker 5: rid of the twenty five pounds or whatever it was.

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Speaker 5: I changed my diet around. A man has to be

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Speaker 5: accountable for what he puts in his mouth. You can't

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Speaker 5: put everything in your mouth and think there's no accountability.

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Speaker 3: When you're older, you're gonna pay.

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Speaker 5: You know. You can't eat beating chocolate bars and candies

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Speaker 5: and cotton candies and jelly apples and fried chicken and

280
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Speaker 5: fried steak and tender toilins or whatever it's called.

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Speaker 3: And think there's no account, You're going to pay a

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Speaker 3: price later.

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Speaker 5: I'm under no medication, And I told Grace, throw the

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Speaker 5: aspirin out the window. Give me a Jack Daniels with

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Speaker 5: a little honey, a little lemon that'll do everything.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make an observation here. James Bond, Jack Bauer,

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Speaker 2: Jason Bourne, Joe Barry, just saying Joe didn't set out

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Speaker 2: in life to be a private investigator. He set out

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Speaker 2: to be a man of God.

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Speaker 5: I literally believe the Bible is the Word of God,

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Speaker 5: whereas other people just think it's a nice book.

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Speaker 3: Other people believe Jesus Christ is an evolution.

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Speaker 8: No.

294
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Speaker 5: Yeah, mankind's pushed that theory like that did the Big

295
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Speaker 5: Bang too?

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Speaker 3: A bunch of pussies pushing that. I mean, come on,

297
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Speaker 3: a big Bang theory. We all came from monkeys.

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Speaker 5: Any man with even half a brain looks at the sun,

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Speaker 5: looks himself in a marrow, looks at the stars at night,

300
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Speaker 5: can't give credit to the Lord. God made all of

301
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Speaker 5: this stuff.

302
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Speaker 2: So Joe wanted to attend seminary, but it turned out

303
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Speaker 2: the seminary didn't want Joe a dispute over the Holy Trinity.

304
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Speaker 2: Apparently you had some bumps in the road, didn't you

305
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,320
Speaker 2: get fired from a number of Johns.

306
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 5: Fire from God knows how many jobs. Twelve at fourteen

307
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 5: saw an ad in the newspaper for an undercover operative.

308
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Speaker 5: I don't know what put that in my mind to

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Speaker 5: go for that job. I went for an interview. I

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Speaker 5: sat down, I had a been down on my head,

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Speaker 5: been down around my neck, was dressed clean, no suit

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Speaker 5: and tie.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of nonsense. And the guided interview says

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Speaker 3: you want a job.

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Speaker 7: I says yeah, and now is the start of my

316
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Speaker 7: career In investigations, Joe tailed a lot of cheating spouses

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Speaker 7: not for him that work.

318
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Speaker 2: Then he hooked up with the Center for Constitutional Rights.

319
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Speaker 2: Joe got an innocent man out of prison with that case.

320
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Speaker 2: Joe told me he found his calling dedicated to the truth.

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Speaker 2: That's what his letter head says.

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Speaker 5: Guilty and liars go away from me. Truthful people are attracted,

323
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Speaker 5: they have something to say. Liars and guilty are afraid

324
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Speaker 5: they got something behind.

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Speaker 2: Joe decides to take Col's case. He hunts down witnesses,

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Speaker 2: tries to but a twenty year old case, even for

327
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Speaker 2: the righteous, that's a tough assignment. Then, in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 2: the phone rings in Joe's office. On the other end,

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Speaker 2: a dame. I can't help myself, Joe, Well, he's like

330
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 2: some private dick out of a film noir. The person

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Speaker 2: on the phone identifies herself as Kimberlea Clark. She says

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Speaker 2: she was right there that night in the Bronx in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, on the day the Harris brothers were murdered.

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Speaker 2: She saw it all.

335
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Speaker 3: I used to stop right there. I need to meet you.

336
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Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about this on the phoon.

337
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 3: I don't know who's listening. I don't know who's listening

338
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Speaker 3: to me talk.

339
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 2: Joe calls me. He knows I've been researching Col's case.

340
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 2: He knows I know email. Joe also knows that Cal's

341
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: only hope is to discover new evidence. There's no DNA

342
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 2: to go on, not even a murder weapon. But now

343
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 2: this new phone call, maybe and I witnessed from twenty

344
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Speaker 2: years ago. Kimber Leah had been approached by the police

345
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Speaker 2: on the night of the murder back in nineteen ninety two,

346
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Speaker 2: but she'd refused to say what she knew, and then

347
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Speaker 2: she disappeared.

348
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Speaker 3: A great lead in this investigation.

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Speaker 5: And I could have been wrong, but I've done it

350
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 5: so many times, and there are times I rejected the

351
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 5: opportunity and I kept it in prayer, and I used

352
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 5: to say, Lord, please help me make a decision. And

353
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Speaker 5: if the decision was to go, I have nothing to lose.

354
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 5: I did the honorable thing. I spent the client's money wisely.

355
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Speaker 5: I get to meet them, and if it all craps out,

356
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Speaker 5: it's no worse for cal.

357
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Speaker 2: So Joe spends Cow's money on an am track ticket.

358
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Speaker 2: It's a twelve hour train ride from New York City

359
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: to North Carolina, where kimber Leah lives. Now he invites

360
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 2: me along. On the train, I reread the transcripts of

361
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 2: Calvin Buari's original trial. When I'd first dug into the document,

362
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Speaker 2: I'd been surprised, Wow, this is how justice works. There

363
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 2: were deals in secrets. The system did seem stacked against

364
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 2: cal But on the train, I think all those witnesses,

365
00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 2: six of them, their testimonies perfectly aligned. They all agreed

366
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: cal was a ruthless killer, and so if Cal is innocent,

367
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: then they all lied, and I wonder could a lie

368
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: really be so well orchestrated. Joe stares at the seat

369
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: in front of him. He's been doing that all the

370
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: way through New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Washington, DC. Suddenly I

371
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 2: have a sinking feeling. Have I really put myself under

372
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: the wing of this weird gum shoe who suspects his

373
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: phone is tapped and isn't convinced the Earth is round?

374
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: Is Cal wasting his money on a tough talking nutjob.

375
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Speaker 2: Joe stares into the middle distance Joe, I say, are

376
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Speaker 2: you sure Cal's innocent? Joe turns to me, I'm sure,

377
00:22:54,600 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: and then he goes back to staring. Joe's weird weirdly.

378
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: His certainty reassures me. Joe's committed to innocence cases and

379
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: he's delivered before with that thousand yards stare. It unnerves me. Joe,

380
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: do you want to read or something, to which Joe replies,

381
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: and I'll never forget this. Some people like to read

382
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 2: on a train, some people like to sleep. I like

383
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: to drink. And with that, he opens his overnight bag

384
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 2: and pulls out a tupsock, inside of which is a

385
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: bottle of wine. I must look alarmed. Don't worry, he says,

386
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: I don't get stupid, and then he fetches a paper

387
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: cup from the concession stand and gets to work. In

388
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: Calvin Buwari's case. There's one thing I've always suspected. There

389
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 2: were others at the scene of the crime that late

390
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: summer night in nineteen ninety two. That neighborhood was always

391
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: crowded with people. Where have they been? The next morning,

392
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: we're at a holiday inn in high Point, North Carolina,

393
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: and there she is. Kimber Leah Clark, the witness who

394
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: called Joe. I'd seen that name in police reports from

395
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, but they spelled it wrong. They'd

396
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 2: written Kimberly. It's kimber Leah. That's why Joe couldn't find her.

397
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: Kimber Leah is in her late forties. She's a big woman,

398
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: well dressed. We take a table off to the side

399
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: of the lobby.

400
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: Kim, I'm just going to put this on here so

401
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: I don't have to take too many known. Okay, require

402
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 3: that's very time.

403
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, today is April seventh, twenty fifteen. But our mission

404
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: is to go back in time to the Bronx, where

405
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Kimberlea lived for two years in the early nineties. She

406
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: lived on the second floor of nine hundred East two

407
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: hundred and thirteenth Street, right in of the crime scene

408
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: and the drug scene.

409
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 3: The streets is theirs.

410
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 13: Yesstad, I'm saying, So, whoever's outside, you got people from

411
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 13: driving from wherever, coming from wherever, doing whatever. I don't

412
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 13: want to see this, you know, But what can you say?

413
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 13: You live without a box. The people sell drugs.

414
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: Kimberlean knows some of the dealers by sight. She knows

415
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: Cal Dwight Peter. For the most part, they are respectful.

416
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: Her view of the dealers is illuminating. But Joe he

417
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 2: wants to understand something else. Why would she want to

418
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: talk now? She says. It all started when she returned

419
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: to the Bronx for a family reunion in the summer

420
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: of two thy and fourteen.

421
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 3: And I happen to be taking pictures. And I should

422
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: have brung it. I should have brung.

423
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 13: Them pictures, okay. And I was taking picture. When I

424
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 13: looked at the picture, I noticed the picture behind me.

425
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 13: Because I was standing taking pictures over by my old place,

426
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 13: by the Super Bowl, and I was the standup pointing

427
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 13: at the stop sign of my Bowl Street. And I

428
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 13: happened to look at the picture because I didn't know

429
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 13: it at first, but I was taking the picture. But

430
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 13: I happened to look at the picture and another face.

431
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 5: Is there another word in use other than picture, photo,

432
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 5: photo or a flyer?

433
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 13: But no, but I was looking at my picture. That's

434
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 13: when I opened up. You know, you got the camera

435
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 13: where you can zoom into the picture.

436
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: So to be clear, this is an insane fluke Kimberlea

437
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: didn't know Calvin Bowari had been convicted of a double

438
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: homicide that happened in front of her building. Then one day,

439
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: twenty two years after the murders, she is taking photos

440
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 2: in front of her old building. She looks at those

441
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: digital images, notices a flyer in the background, zooms in

442
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: and reads what it says, free Calvin Bowari. And it

443
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: was that image that led her to Joe. Joe's phone

444
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: number was on the flyer, she says. Joe wants her

445
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: to write a statement, a brief statement.

446
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: Just so you know. Matt Spelling is not dead. That's okay.

447
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 14: I never fished high school. But you can write a sentence.

448
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 14: I can write a sentence and it doesn't matter for

449
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 14: smith stuff. Okay, that's just want to let you know

450
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 14: that might looks good. The spelling sucks.

451
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 5: That's what manages what she saw. That's what counts here.

452
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 5: I'm oh, cal was not present when I saw it.

453
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 5: When I heard these shots, cal was not present. Cl Hey,

454
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 5: I v okay, you want to put Calvin? That's fine.

455
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: Kimber Leah tells us she heard gunshots and then peeked

456
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: out her window. She didn't see the murders go down,

457
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: she says, but she saw someone by the car and

458
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: it wasn't cal. We just took a long train ride

459
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: to hear only that. But we're not done yet.

460
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: I asked you.

461
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 5: Probably a few days ago, if there's anybody else that

462
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 5: you could think of that might be able to talk to.

463
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: Aska would have seen.

464
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 13: This, maybe my sister. I'm pretty sure my sister learned

465
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 13: the super outside.

466
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: She was outside on the stoop when the murders went down.

467
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: After the break, I witnessed number two. We're back with

468
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: Empire on blood.

469
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: Hello, are you free for large? As I said, you say,

470
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: I'll call you up back.

471
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: All right, Kimberlea phones her sister, Nakia Clark. Nakia followed

472
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: kimber Lea to North Carolina from the Bronx in our

473
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: hotel restaurant, it's now lunchtime. Nakia joins us and switches

474
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: places with her sister, who takes a break outside. Nakia

475
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: is six or seven years younger than kimber Lea and

476
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: probably a foot shorter. She's a bit jittery, not the

477
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: vibe of someone who wants to discuss a murder that

478
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: happened when she was a teenager. So we chat about

479
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: other things.

480
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 15: Can I get some sweet extra leventh?

481
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: Actually, you know, I guess I'll go to the tea

482
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: route unsweet.

483
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 15: Yeah. So I've been sober now sixteen months.

484
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: Congratulation. Yeah, that's fantastic.

485
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 12: Right.

486
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 15: My fiance now is like the best thing in the world.

487
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 15: We don't argue and fight and he doesn't put his

488
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 15: hands on me.

489
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: I was and it was a bad relationship right now,

490
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 3: let's see it ring.

491
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it.

492
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: Thank you really like you? Yeah? He loved me, so

493
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: you How long did you live? At nine hundred.

494
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 15: With my sister, it was back like back and forth

495
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 15: because my mother lived in the Bronx, but she was

496
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 15: on one hundred forty ninth and Southern Boulevard. So when

497
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 15: I was my mother smoke craft at the time, so

498
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 15: there was a lot of times where I couldn't take it,

499
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 15: so I would just go stay with my sister.

500
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: It was really rough.

501
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Really, Kimberly's apartment was a refuge for Nakia, especially when

502
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: she got pregnant. At sixteen, the evening of the murders,

503
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: she was eight months pregnant.

504
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 5: All right, so since we're going there, now, you're sitting

505
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 5: in front of your house, I was saying nineteen ninety two.

506
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: When you say in front of the house, the stick.

507
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 15: See there's a step So I was sitting right there

508
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 15: on a step car.

509
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 8: Yeah.

510
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: About how many feet from you where that wall is today?

511
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: Probably a little further than that wall.

512
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 8: Yeah.

513
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 5: And as you're sitting with this girl, tell me what

514
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 5: you hear. Describe it in your own words, shots fired, whatever.

515
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, we were sitting there talking laughing about something.

516
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: Right. The car was sitting there. Which car?

517
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 15: Now, there was a white car with two guys sitting

518
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 15: in the front seat.

519
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: Did you know those two guys?

520
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 15: No? It was on two thirteen. Okay, yeah, because it

521
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 15: was facing towards us because the street goes this way.

522
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Did he come from the front of the car.

523
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: He came from the back of the car. He shot

524
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: a gun in his hand, by the way.

525
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, because at first he was your regularly walking down

526
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 15: the street, hands at the side, Yeah, and then he

527
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 15: just foul baba. I remember seeing them jerk, because that's

528
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 15: the worst part, seeing them jerk and the flash gun flashing,

529
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 15: and then I jumped up, and then I ran upstairs

530
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 15: and my sister was asking me what was going on?

531
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 15: You know what was happening. I told her what I saw.

532
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 15: She told me not to say nothing. So I'm sitting

533
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 15: in the house crying, losing my mind because I couldn't.

534
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: Believe what I just saw. Did the police ever come?

535
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: They did? I opened the door, my sister, she called

536
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: me not to answer the door. Kimberly opened the en.

537
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: She told you stayed away from it, but she opened.

538
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: She opened it and said not to what the curate

539
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: was an accent. Did you did Kimberly.

540
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 12: Know you saw this?

541
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 5: Yeah?

542
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: I told her she was always outside right away.

543
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 15: Once I ran ran upstairs because she screamed, and I

544
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 15: ran upstairs and I told them and she said.

545
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: Were not talking about this?

546
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 15: That you not telling nobody because we knew how it

547
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 15: was over there, And I guess her being the oldest,

548
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 15: and I'm glad she did cause he probably would have

549
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 15: came after us, you know. So uh and she said

550
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 15: they aked her. Did she know anything about and she said, no,

551
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 15: I didn't know nothing. We just heard something in them.

552
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 14: That was it.

553
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: They never came back after that. It was upsetting it. Yeah, really,

554
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 3: let me ask you, what are the chances of your

555
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: being wrong? Type percent wrong? Five percent wrong? No chance?

556
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: Because that was horrible. Now they what what they call

557
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: it PTSD.

558
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, that felt like being in a war somewhere and

559
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 15: them flashes and then when my sister told me, it

560
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 15: was like I had to relive it.

561
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: All over again.

562
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 5: Are you a strong enough person to take a small

563
00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: beating and the witness.

564
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 15: Stand, yeah, I'm I'm been call worse. I'm being called

565
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 15: worse right now, so yeah, I can do that.

566
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: And if Nakia isn't strong enough, well, Evelina is. I

567
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: find out that Nakia has an alter ego Evelina. It's

568
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: what her mom called her when her temper showed. Evelina

569
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: is not to be messed with. Later, we drive to

570
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: a nearby bank to get her eyewitness account notarized, but

571
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: the bank official doesn't want to do it. She's not

572
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: a customer, he says. Evelina gives him a look. I

573
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: swear her eyes bulge, her lips tightened to Razor Thinness.

574
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: The bank official decides to make an exception. He notarizes

575
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: her document. This is an amazing break after twenty years.

576
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: It's stunning for me and for it could be life altering.

577
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: Na kia Eva Lena is the kind of witness you

578
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: want on your side. Fearless, maybe a little frightening. She

579
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 2: saw the whole thing at ground level. She even says

580
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: she knows who did it, but for the moment she's

581
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: thinking about cal.

582
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 15: Now finding out that just messes me up, because like

583
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 15: if I would have said something to the police, I mean,

584
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 15: I feel like he wouldn't have to spend all.

585
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have said nothing. But I don't think he

586
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 3: did anything wrong. Well, we have his chocolate cake.

587
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 15: Yeah, whip brain, I guess you want a lot of it.

588
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 3: It's a way if I smoked a cigarette.

589
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 12: Are you there?

590
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: Yeah?

591
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 12: I'm I'm all right man? How are you?

592
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 8: Yeah? I'm doing better. I'm doing better. Okay, now I'm

593
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 8: doing a lot better.

594
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: This is Cal, almost one year after the sisters signed

595
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 2: their affidavits. A lot has happened in the past year,

596
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: not all of it good. On the strength of the

597
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: new affidavits, Cal had found an advocate, the eighty five

598
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: year old crusading attorney Myron Belldock, the one who said

599
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: to Cal, I believe you. Belldoc got a new appeal started.

600
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: Everything was going great, and then Belldock died. I told

601
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: Cal the news over the phone. Cal believed his life

602
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 2: was in his attorney's hands. Now Belldock was gone. On

603
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: the phone, Cal fell silent. I fell silent. What was

604
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: there to say? And then Cal hung up radio silence.

605
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: It was one of the many times I wished I

606
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 2: could phone him, but Col's in prison. I had to

607
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: wait for him to call me. Two weeks later he

608
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: finally did. Cow was changed upbeat making plans the old cow.

609
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 12: Hey. Let me let me ask you, how did you

610
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 12: how did you get your your determination bag?

611
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: And you overcome?

612
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 8: You know what I last started looking at. I got

613
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 8: a collauge of my room pictures.

614
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 10: And the articles printed on him, and you know one

615
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 10: of the things that that just like a spirit touched me.

616
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: So Cal has a new assignment for me, help him

617
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: find a new lawyer. He asks me the conference in email.

618
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 12: All right, is everybody there, Calvin, it's email. Hey, I thought,

619
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 12: I'm good.

620
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 8: I'm good, I'm good.

621
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: All right. I tell you.

622
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 8: If anybody knows what I'm.

623
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: Going through right now with you email now, A suit

624
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: wearing paralegal knows lots of lawyers. He thinks of the

625
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: attorney who represented him in his final hearing, Oscar mitchellin definitely, I'll.

626
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: Let me reach out to him. I would just.

627
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 8: Starting the email second, remaining with Steve, because I have

628
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 8: Steve number on my list. In that contact him and

629
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 8: I'll try to you know, hear from Steve if you

630
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 8: had anything in.

631
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: Saus to talking to the attorney.

632
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 8: All right, yeah, yeah, all right, take it see Stevey.

633
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: Okay.

634
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 12: Good.

635
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: So the plot thickens, and against my better instincts, I'm

636
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: in deep again, riding the train to debrief new witnesses,

637
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: connecting the man on the inside to helpers on the outside.

638
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 2: With Belldock's appeal, based on the sisters information, Cal's case

639
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 2: could be reopened. The state had six eyewitnesses, but now

640
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: cal has his own. Still a few things perplex me,

641
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 2: like kimber Leah, she really got Joe's phone number after

642
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: zooming in on a flyer in the background of a photograph,

643
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: and both sisters suddenly pop up after two decades. I

644
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: think of someone who might help me evaluate these developments.

645
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: Retired Bronx assistant Da Alan Karen Turtleman. He hasn't heard

646
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: about Cal's appeal or the two new eyewitnesses. So one

647
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: day I bring Calvin's new appeal to Turtleman in his

648
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: suburbanary where turtles run free. We sit on his couch.

649
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: I hand him the document, all one hundred and ten

650
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: pages of it. He flips through a quickly homes in

651
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 2: on the sisters affidavits.

652
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 5: What you do with something like this is you keep

653
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 5: it in your bathroom in case you run out of.

654
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: Twilve or thirty.

655
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: More manipulations from master manipulator Calvin Buari. That's how Turtleman

656
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: sees it. He knows how this works. Pass along a

657
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 2: few talking points and an envelope of cash. That's how

658
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: Calvin must have done it. And suddenly I have a

659
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: flicker of doubt. Turtleman he's been through this before that.

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00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 3: It would be great for you to come back and

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00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 3: square off on this.

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00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 12: And one more time.

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00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 4: If they want me back, I would reluctantly do that.

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00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 3: Reluctantly.

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00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 5: No, I'll do it.

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00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: Next on Empire on Blood.

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00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: Alive. You know.

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00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: You there?

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00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm here to see how do you think I

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00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 10: do defense?

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00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 3: You are obviously understand that the burden is on you.

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00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: What did you see when he looked at that window?

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00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: After the first few shots.

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00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: Cal's day in court finally arrives again. Turtleman waits for

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00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: his phondering Evelina's on pop Cow wears cashmere, and everyone

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00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: waits to see what Dwight will do. The director's cut

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00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: of Empire on Blood is produced by Emil Klein. Austin

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00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 2: Smith is our associate producer and production coordinator. The original

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00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: production of the Empire on Blood was also produced by

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00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: Emil Klein. Miel Lobell was our executive producer, Julia Pardon

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00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: our story editor, fact checking by Stephanie Daniels. Our advisor

682
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: was Joel Dusk, mastering by Jason Gabrel, original scoring by

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00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: Joel Saint Julian and our theme song, The Lonely King

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00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: is by mister Lynn. Special thanks to Andy Bowers, who

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00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: championed the original production at Panople. I'm Steve Fishman, Lucky good.

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00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 3: Note to Blood Leavesday Kane.

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00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 2: We have the burns, we have the.

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00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: Blurred love between friends and old. The last one you hear.

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00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 2: Welcome to you, Hi there, before we go, You've just

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00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: listened to another brilliant episode of Empire on Blood the

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00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: Director's Cut. To hear episodes of this series one week

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00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to True

693
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. It's just two ninety nine

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00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: a month.