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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, March twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am

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Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm

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Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters

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Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Variety's Kate Arthur on The Comeback, Lisa

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Speaker 1: Kudro's tour de force with showrunner Michael Patrick King Valerie

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Speaker 1: Cherish is back for one last round. Arthur has all

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Speaker 1: the details from Kudro and King, who lovingly crafted every

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Speaker 1: word and every frame of The Comeback's final eight episodes.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live UK got off to a big start

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Speaker 1: this weekend. My colleague in London, k J. Yossman, crunched

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Speaker 1: the numbers and found the budget for the show is

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Speaker 1: about two point six million dollars an episode. That's less

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Speaker 1: than what an episode costs to produce at Studio eight

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Speaker 1: h in New York, but huge by the standard of

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Speaker 1: British TV variety shows. Darfleet Academy will end its run

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Speaker 1: after just two seasons on Paramount Plus. My Great variety

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Speaker 1: colleague Joe Otterson has the scoop. Disney Plus meanwhile has

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Speaker 1: renewed Marvel's latest drama series, wonder Man for season two,

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Speaker 1: and Apple TV's space opera for All Mankind has been

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Speaker 1: renewed for a sixth and final season. Epic Games is

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Speaker 1: cutting one thousand jobs and five hundred million dollars in

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Speaker 1: costs as its sites a downturn in engagement for Fortnite.

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Speaker 1: Madeline Burke has joined Sports Center as an anchor starting

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Speaker 1: next month. She's been a longtime sports reporter covering the

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Speaker 1: New York Giants, most recently with MSG Network and Giants

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Speaker 1: dot Com. She'll be based in Bristol. And finally, don't

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Speaker 1: miss my colleague Matt Donnelly's scoop from late last week

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Speaker 1: that is still reverberating around the film world. Roe qu Entertainment,

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Speaker 1: the splashy film distribution startup led by Megan Culligan and investors,

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Speaker 1: is allegedly having some cash flow problems. The turbulence has

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Speaker 1: imperiled the planned May release of Maud Apatow's directorial debut,

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Speaker 1: Poetic License. Roque made its debut in September at the

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Speaker 1: Toronto Film Festival. All of these stories and so much

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Speaker 1: more can be found on Variety dot com right now.

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Speaker 1: And now it's time for conversations with Variety journalists about

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Speaker 1: news and trends and show business. Kate Arthur, Variety's managing editor,

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Speaker 1: comes to us to talk about The Comeback, the Lisakudro

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Speaker 1: Michael Patrick King comedy that now more than ever, seems

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Speaker 1: so ahead of its time. It only took twenty one

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Speaker 1: years for the show to get to season three. Kate

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Speaker 1: recently did along Q and A with the two of them.

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Speaker 1: She has covered the comeback since its very inception, and

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Speaker 1: she has great perspective of what Valerie Cherish means to

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Speaker 1: fans and to Lisa Kudrou as an artist. But before

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Speaker 1: we hear from Kate, let's hear how HBO sold this

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Speaker 1: show in its first season way back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five. Well, I got it.

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Speaker 2: Could you do it again?

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Speaker 3: Well? I got it?

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Speaker 2: Just one more?

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Speaker 1: Well I got it. You can't use that.

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Speaker 2: Jane can be a useless I think it can be

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Speaker 2: a little bigger, you know, more excited.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Jane, You're do I have to talk

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Speaker 1: complete this sentence.

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling blank.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling like I'm carrying the show.

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Speaker 3: Make no mistakes at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 3: no more mistakes.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Kudro in the Combat.

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Speaker 3: The first funny said fictional reality show comedy Hybrid a

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Speaker 3: new comedy series.

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Speaker 1: And here's how they're positioning it for season three. Kudro

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Speaker 1: and King say, season three is the bookend on the

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Speaker 1: life and times of Valerie Cherish, and that is followed

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Speaker 1: by my conversation with Kate.

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Speaker 3: Valerie Cherish, that's me today, a call from your old

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Speaker 3: broadcast home. And they are offering Valerie Cherish a starring

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Speaker 3: role in their new multi camera comedy.

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Speaker 1: A multiicam. Okay, so sitcoms are making a comeback. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: knew they would. You know, people need to laugh now

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Speaker 1: more than ever. Kate, Arthur, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: It's been a twenty one year run for the comeback

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Speaker 1: for three seasons on HBO, and that is only part

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Speaker 1: of this show's charm. The show came back to HBO

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Speaker 1: this past Sunday. I wanted to talk to you after

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Speaker 1: the first episode had aired so we could talk a

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Speaker 1: little spoilery. So hello folks. If you haven't seen the

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Speaker 1: first episode, you probably want to stop listening. But truly,

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Speaker 1: this show is just a cult favorite of a lot

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Speaker 1: of us around Variety. It felt like it just came

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Speaker 1: so out of the blue in the character of Valerie Cherish.

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Speaker 1: Hard for Lisa Kudro to move on from Phoebe of Friends,

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Speaker 1: and this was such a swing and it was just

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Speaker 1: such a brave thing. Tell me, Kate, when you heard

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Speaker 1: a little bit ago now that there was going to

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Speaker 1: be a season three of The Comeback? Did you cheer?

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Speaker 1: Were you happy?

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Speaker 2: I was so excited that there was going to be

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Speaker 2: a season three of The Comeback. Then they immediately announced

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Speaker 2: it as the third and final season, so that stabbed

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Speaker 2: me in the heart. But as long as we get

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Speaker 2: more Comeback, I'm good.

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Speaker 1: So what is the basic conceit of the show?

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Speaker 2: The basic conceit of The Comeback is that it follows

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Speaker 2: very closely a fading sitcom actress named Valerie Cherish, who

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Speaker 2: is very quirky. In season one, she is making her

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Speaker 2: comeback in a hacky network sitcom called Room and Board

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Speaker 2: bored and about a bunch of twenty somethings, and she

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Speaker 2: plays Aunt Sassy, who's the ridiculed an who none of

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Speaker 2: the twenty somethings want anything to do with. And it's

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Speaker 2: all about her being mistreated by the creators of the show.

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Speaker 2: And she's being filmed for a reality series that would

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Speaker 2: accompany the Room and Board, which is called The Comeback,

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Speaker 2: which is following her very closely. It goes home with

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Speaker 2: her and you see every indignity on her face. She

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Speaker 2: knows she's being humiliated, but doesn't want to admit. She

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Speaker 2: is in front of the cameras and eventually, well, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen

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Speaker 2: the first season, but she can triumph under the most

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Speaker 2: unlikely of circumstances because she's pretty shameless. She's just an

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Speaker 2: incredible character.

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Speaker 1: You cannot keep Valerie down. And as you were talking,

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Speaker 1: it was reminding me of season one. I remember the

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Speaker 1: depiction of the upfronts and that process in season one

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Speaker 1: was so good and so funny, and it was at

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Speaker 1: a time you did and see that kind of thing

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Speaker 1: on TV shows. Now everything is so meta and self referential.

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Speaker 1: And I say again, Friends ended in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: The comeback came on in two thousand and five for

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Speaker 1: Lisa Krudro to take on this character. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is one of many reasons why people adore Lisa Kudro.

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Speaker 1: She is such an artist.

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Speaker 2: If you think of Friends as one of the more

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Speaker 2: mainstream mass entertainment phenomenon of our lifetimes, Lisa Kudro's sensibility

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Speaker 2: actually exists far away from that in that she's an

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Speaker 2: odd ball. It's kind of a hilarious thing when you've

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Speaker 2: spoken to her that she was one of the lead

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Speaker 2: actors on Friends, just because she's very far out of

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Speaker 2: the mainstream in terms of her own sensibility. And of course,

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Speaker 2: this is the brainchild of Michael Patrick King, who is

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Speaker 2: a name very familiar to HBO viewers as the showrunner

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Speaker 2: a long time on Sex and the City. What is

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Speaker 2: it about the partnership with Lisa and Michael Patrick King.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they were devastated when the show was canceled

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Speaker 2: by HBO after one season. It had gotten several Emmy

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Speaker 2: nominations that used to count for something in HBO and

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Speaker 2: still does.

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Speaker 1: Big part of the currency.

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Speaker 2: It was during a period when they were a bit

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Speaker 2: lost HBO, and they'd had it several bombs in a row.

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Speaker 2: And even though the comeback it was nominated for Best

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Speaker 2: Comedy Actress, he was nominated for directing and the casting

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Speaker 2: was nominated, it got canceled anyway, and they were floored.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was at a time when HBO didn't

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Speaker 2: really cancel things, so they couldn't believe it. They thought

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Speaker 2: that it was a thirteen episode first season. It's very

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable to watch the first season, or at least it

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Speaker 2: was then. It's aged in a way where we're more

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Speaker 2: used to seeing women being humiliated on TV. In the

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Speaker 2: era of the Real Housewives, the world is rougher, and

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Speaker 2: so I think the comeback season one goes down more

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Speaker 2: easily now than it did then. But they were devastated

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Speaker 2: and they didn't think they would ever get to do

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Speaker 2: it again, and they were both so sad, and then

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Speaker 2: it became a huge cult show. Season two premiered in

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, and that was a moment when things were

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Speaker 2: starting to be revived. If we now think of an

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Speaker 2: era where nothing dies, that was when that era began.

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Speaker 2: But it was really brought back by people's love for it,

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Speaker 2: including people at HBO. Casey Bloyse, who's now the chairman

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Speaker 2: of HBO, had been the executive on the show, and

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Speaker 2: he just said to them, do you have any ideas

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Speaker 2: for a possible second season? And they came in armed

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Speaker 2: with ideas.

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Speaker 1: As I recall, season three kind of came out of

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Speaker 1: the blue. Or were you aware that they had been

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Speaker 1: cogitating on ideas.

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Speaker 2: Every time I would interview Michael Patrick King for various things,

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Speaker 2: I would ask him, would you ever bring the comeback back?

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Speaker 2: There was just a hitch that was an emotional one,

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Speaker 2: which is that one of the lead actors, his name

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Speaker 2: was Robert Michael Morris, and he played Valerie's best friend

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Speaker 2: and hairdresser and kind of her cheerleader, like he's always

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Speaker 2: by her side, cheering her on and kind of witnessing

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Speaker 2: what was happening with her, and he died. He had

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Speaker 2: been very sick during season two as they filmed. He

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Speaker 2: had stage four melanoma and died in twenty seventeen. He'd

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Speaker 2: been very sick during season two and they actually wrote

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Speaker 2: it into the story that Mickey is sick and after

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Speaker 2: he died, I don't think either of them really wanted

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Speaker 2: to do it, especially Lisa Kudro and so I think

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Speaker 2: it took them a while to wrap their heads around

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Speaker 2: how that would work. It's a gift to the creative community,

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Speaker 2: and in the way that it's played out, it captures

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Speaker 2: certain eras of this period of momentous change throughout our business,

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Speaker 2: and as I understand it really kind of poignantly it's.

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Speaker 1: Beloved letter to the Warner Brothers lot in Burbank because

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Speaker 1: of the way it was filmed, and of course the

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Speaker 1: timing now is Warner Brothers. It appears that the curtain

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Speaker 1: is going to come down on Warner Brothers as a

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Speaker 1: standalone studio. I'm sure it has a little bit of

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Speaker 1: extra oomph for people that have worked on that lot

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Speaker 1: and have loved that beautiful hunk of Burbank that has

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Speaker 1: long been home to Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Season one is Valerie being filmed for a

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Speaker 2: reality show. Season two is Valerie discovers that her season

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Speaker 2: one nemesis, one of the creators of the show that

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Speaker 2: she was on, has written a gritty HBO dramedy basically

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Speaker 2: about her. So she goes and gets a part on it,

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Speaker 2: playing herself and wins an Emmy, and then season three

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Speaker 2: is what if Valerie were offered a role on the

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Speaker 2: first sitcom ever to be written by Ai, knowing that

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Speaker 2: AI was the enemy and the strikes. She doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to do it, and then she takes the role and

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Speaker 2: it's films on Stage twenty four on the Warner Brothers

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Speaker 2: lot explicitly, and a little show called Friends also filmed there.

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Speaker 2: It filmed in and around the Warner Brothers lot. I

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Speaker 2: asked Michael Patrick King about it, and he said, we

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Speaker 2: knew something was happening with Warner Brothers because they started

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Speaker 2: filming in late August, but we didn't know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: whatever happens with that lot, who knows. But it is

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Speaker 2: a real tribute to a certain kind of filmmaking and

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Speaker 2: making of television. They did that very deliberately, with the

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Speaker 2: backdrop being Ai.

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Speaker 1: So this is though season three, This completes the Valerie

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Speaker 1: Cherish trilogy? Correct? Or do you think is there an

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Speaker 1: outside hope for her to come back yet again?

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Speaker 2: As much as I would like there to be an

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Speaker 2: outside hope, there isn't. They've now convinced me they really

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Speaker 2: do bring her story to a close at the end

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Speaker 2: of the eighth episode. And one thing I just want

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Speaker 2: to say is that they usually had a writer's room

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Speaker 2: for the previous seasons, and this time, the two of

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Speaker 2: them wrote every episode together and Michael Patrick King directed

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Speaker 2: all of them. They did it in person together. They

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Speaker 2: didn't use any AI programs. They were very clear with

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Speaker 2: me about that they had someone there taking notes in

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Speaker 2: person and helping them with that. It was very important

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Speaker 2: to them to do that together for this final season.

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Speaker 1: Another dimension to Lisa. Never forget she's a good writer.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of love poured into this season. Whatever

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Speaker 1: end to the comeback that they come up with, I

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Speaker 1: know we will talk about it on bridy dot com. Kate,

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Speaker 1: you did a terrific Q and A with Lisa Kudrou

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Speaker 1: and Michael Patrick King that is on bridy dot com

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Speaker 1: and super fans should read it because it's got all

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Speaker 1: kinds of kernels. But if you're just trying to get

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Speaker 1: a flavor of this show, it's also a good place

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Speaker 1: to start. Kate Arthur, thank you so much for your

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Speaker 1: time and your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for letting me be on here.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it. As we close out today's episode, here's a

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Speaker 1: few Things We're watching for investigation. Discovery could make some

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Speaker 1: noise with its latest docuseries, boy Band Confidential, looking at

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Speaker 1: the boy band boom of the late nineteen nineties. Joey

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Speaker 1: Fatone of in Sync is one of the executive producers.

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Speaker 1: It premieres April twentieth. Stars of the ABC drama Scandal

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Speaker 1: will reunite on April sixteenth in New York to pay

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Speaker 1: tribute to Tony Goldwyn. Bellamy Young and Shonda Rimes will

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Speaker 1: be there to salute the former TV commander in Chief

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Speaker 1: at a fundraiser for the Americas Airlift Benefit. Gene Smart,

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Speaker 1: star of Hacks, will also be honored. Mark your calendar's

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Speaker 1: May thirtieth is this year's date for the annual Produced

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Speaker 1: By Conference, hosted the Producer's Guild of America. This time around,

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Speaker 1: it will be held on the beautifully refurbished Universal Studios lot.

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Speaker 1: We love to hear from listeners, so please send thoughts, scripes,

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Speaker 1: and other feedback about Daily Variety two podcasts at Variety

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Speaker 1: dot com. Before we go, congrats to Disney TV's Deborah

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Speaker 1: O'Connell CBS Sunday Morning anchor Jane Pauley. Inside Edition veteran

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Speaker 1: Deborah Norville and legendary Los Angeles Dodgers announcer Haimi Heren.

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Speaker 1: They are all set to be honored as Giants of

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Speaker 1: Broadcasting in the Electronic Arts by the Library of American

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Speaker 1: Broadcasting Foundation. The date is November seventeenth in New York.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. This episode was written and reported by

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Speaker 1: me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Kate Arthur Stick Snick's

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Speaker 1: hick Picks. Please leave us a review at the podcast

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Speaker 1: platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for

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Speaker 1: another episode of Daily Variety.