1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. Hey besties, Today I'm the bright Side. We've 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: got another Shelf Life segment for you. And today we're 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: talking with Namante, Nnkimo and Mitch Anderson that they're co authors. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: At the latest Reese's Book Club pick, we will be Jaguars. 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Inter compelling memoir, Namante chronicles her life in the Amazonian 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: rainforest and how she became the first female leader of 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: the wail Rani people. 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: And later we'll hear from entrepreneur, author, and former Finance 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: reporter Nicole Lappin. She's talking all about passive income, how 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: to make money when you're sleeping. 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 3: Duh. 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, November twenty sixth. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe and. 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce and this is The bright Side from 15 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. Is 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: it possible for one person to change the course of 18 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: an entire ecosystem or even the world if anyone can. 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: It's Namante Nankim. Raised in the heart of Ecuador's Amazonian 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: jungle as a proud member of the wile Rani tribe. 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: She's on a mission to protect indigenous rights and preserve 22 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: the dignity of her people. And she's telling her own 23 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: story for the very first time. 24 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: And I think there's an emphasis on that word story 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: because in wile Rani culture, stories are living beings. She says, 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: they stalk like jaguars. They're powerful beings that are always changing. 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: A story dies when no one tells it. Namante was 28 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: I think destined, but also incredibly determined to make sure 29 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: women around the world heard her story. She writes, to 30 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 2: bring people together and ensure that her people's story not 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: only lives on, but that she's able to change the 32 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: hearts and minds of those who don't have an understanding 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: of ra Rannie culture. 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: She's accomplished an astonishing amount in her thirty nine years 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: of life. In twenty nineteen, she became the first female 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: leader of the Wawani people and guided them to victory 37 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: in a landmark court case that provided protection over half 38 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: a million acres of rainforest from oil companies. And in 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, she was named a Times list of the 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: most influential people in the world and received the United 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Nations Champions of the Earth. 42 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: Award, and all of those astonishing awards almost pale in 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: comparison to her message, her words, and her story. She 44 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: really has so much to share. There's a quick note 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: that we want to share with you guys. Namante speaks 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: fluent Spanish, so when we recorded this interview, her husband 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: and co author of the book, Mitch Anderson, translated for us, 48 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: and then we invited a voiceover performer to record Namante's 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 2: parts of the conversation so that it's all as seamless 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: as possible. Welcome to the bright Side, Namante and Mitch. 51 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: We're so happy to have you. 52 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 4: You mentees, Demustine content. 53 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 5: Likewise, thanks so much to all of you for giving 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 5: us this opportunity to recount our history we've worked together, 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 5: and also for me, it's a special moment to be 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 5: in this space. 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: It's a specials tam Vian. We want to begin with 58 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: the title of your memoir, as it has two different versions. 59 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: In the US it's titled We Will Be Jaguars, while 60 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: in the UK it's We Will Not Be Saved? Why 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: did you choose different titles for these markets? 62 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 5: The English speakers flew over a territory, the companies flew 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 5: over talking about development. That's how they arrived to our territory. 64 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 5: With beautiful words, but they cheated us out of a 65 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 5: lot of our territory using fear, government invasions, oil invasions. 66 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 5: The outsiders saying that the indigenous knowledge of the indigenous 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 5: people is not the same worth as the knowledge of 68 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: white people, and they did harm. The other thing I 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 5: had in mind is that one has to reflect on 70 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 5: their own life and break from the world that comes 71 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 5: to invade from itself. No one can save one another, 72 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 5: but one can save oneself. So what I'm trying to 73 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 5: say in this title is no one's going to save you. 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 5: You can save yourself. You can take care of yourself. 75 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 5: You respect yourself. This is what I'm trying to say 76 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 5: with that title, we will not be saved. The other title, 77 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 5: we will be like jaguars. This is very sacred for 78 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 5: me and my people. They believe that the jaguar is 79 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 5: their god because their ancestors had a vision, and in 80 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 5: this vision, the jaguar came to tell a story about 81 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 5: a threat to the territory. The elders have said that 82 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 5: we walk around our territory in the afterlife, that when 83 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 5: we die, we are going to become a jaguar. The 84 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 5: spirit of a jaguar we will continue to walk and 85 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 5: protect our family in territory. This is the belief of 86 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 5: our culture that when I die, I will change into 87 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 5: the spirit of a male jaguar, and I will continue 88 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 5: living walking. If a man dies in my tribe, he 89 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 5: will change into a woman. So this is a very 90 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 5: profound belief of ours So that I learned from my 91 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 5: dad that he learned from my oldest grandparents. I've been 92 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 5: learning what this means since I was a child, and 93 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 5: the relationship that we have to this idea. I see 94 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 5: that the jungle is alive and we have so much 95 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 5: connection to it. We live their nature itself and its 96 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 5: animals and our sleep. We transform into animals and they 97 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 5: teach us how to detect a threat or danger or sickness. 98 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 5: Through animals, we can communicate to ourselves. So the jaguar 99 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 5: is a very important animal to us because it's our god. 100 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 5: For us, it is sacred. We have a lot of 101 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 5: respect for it. That's why I titled it this way. 102 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 5: And I feel very happy that this story gets to live, 103 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 5: that this title has to live. We will be jaguars. 104 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 5: You cannot separate the spirit of the jaguar from the 105 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 5: well Ronnie people Namonte. 106 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: You write in the intro of your book, a story 107 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: dies when no one tells it. This story, this movement 108 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: is so much bigger than you, than just one person. 109 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: And we were speaking before we started rolling on our conversation, 110 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: and we were talking about the fact that we're both moms, 111 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: and I have to imagine that that factors into your 112 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: activism and the lens through what you see your work, 113 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: what's your why and also who are you doing it for? 114 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 4: More important sign. 115 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 5: Question is very important and very significant for us. I 116 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 5: come from this lineage that goes back many years for 117 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 5: contact to our world. Our weal Rani culture is very strong, fierce. 118 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 5: It doesn't permit invasion into our territories because they protected 119 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 5: this massive territory so much for the sake of the future, 120 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 5: their children and future generations to be able to have 121 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 5: this space. They dreamed that this vitality gave life to 122 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 5: the planet. They already had their own language and knowledge. 123 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 5: It is very important to relay the history well. 124 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 4: Ronnie. 125 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 5: Culture always tells oral histories in the mornings and nights, 126 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 5: during work, while fishing all the time, always recollecting, singing, 127 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 5: always with happiness. My dad said that now we have 128 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 5: contacted the outside world. We already know it, but the 129 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 5: world only cares about oil mining resources. The world sees 130 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 5: that the jungle as green but barren. The world sees 131 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 5: that the indigenous people have no knowledge, but it's actually 132 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 5: the other way around. The indigenous world respects mother Earth 133 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 5: with a very profound love. It has a very close 134 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 5: relationship with the earth in nature. This for this reason, 135 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 5: my father said, why you need to tell the story. 136 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 5: I've been watching for many years and I've been seeing 137 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 5: that as ancestors die, history dies. So as a woman 138 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 5: and a mother, I thought this work of telling the 139 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 5: history needs to be done because often not only my people, 140 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 5: they're looking to mothers and grandmothers for these stories, and 141 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 5: as they die, knowledge goes, history dies too. So we 142 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 5: must listen to our elders who said all the same thing. 143 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 5: The outside world does not know the jungle well, but 144 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 5: it will try to destroy it. So this was my 145 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 5: inspiration as well as my father who motivated me. He 146 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 5: told me that you have grown as a daughter. I 147 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 5: am so proud of you and the work that you've done. 148 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 5: You have united with other peoples. Now it's not just 149 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 5: enough anymore. It is time to launch like a lance 150 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 5: lying in the air. He told me that he was 151 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 5: now throwing me out into the world as a symbol. 152 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 5: We tell his story and it goes out into the world. 153 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 5: So I was born to write history, and in the 154 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 5: book I was real and sincere, I'm not really much 155 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 5: of a writer. This book transforms oral storytelling into writing things. 156 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 5: To my husband, he comes from the outside and he 157 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 5: can write and read, whereas my people come from the 158 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 5: world to oral stories and dreams. So this history is true. 159 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 5: It is the history of my childhood. It is a 160 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 5: history of collaborations of different people's collective knowledge. So the 161 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 5: story is a recollection of our lives, of our history. 162 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 5: Because the outside system is threatening to enter day by day, 163 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 5: the indigenous have to defend ourselves. And my father told me, Nemo, 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 5: you're in a hurry in your explaining and doing all 165 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 5: this work. But it is not just for you. This history, 166 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 5: this fight, this resistance will be seen by those behind you, 167 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 5: not just your children, but the future generations of the world. 168 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: I was reading about the Waurani tribe and it's said 169 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: that there's a deep connection to the natural world, but 170 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: also spirituality and dream interpretation, and a big value of 171 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: the community is resistance to external exploitation. Your book details 172 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: how oil companies have contributed to climate change in the Amazon. 173 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: I'm curious how. 174 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: You've seen your environment change over time and how climate 175 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: change directly impacted your community and tribe. 176 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 5: Yok ok And I think that the older people have 177 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 5: been able to detect a rapid change in the climate 178 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 5: in their territories. There's really nothing else like it in 179 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 5: the world. Some people hope that, oh, it's just a 180 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 5: hurricane or a rain or a bit drought, just one event. 181 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 5: But the science says it is climate change, that it's 182 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 5: affecting this. And what I've seen in my father in 183 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 5: older people is that they'll tell me, Nemo, we should 184 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 5: store fruit for the animals to eat. That this isn't 185 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 5: just climate change. The earth is not bearing fruit. They'll say. 186 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 5: Animals are coming to the farms to eat potatoes and 187 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 5: plantains that is not usually in their diet. There is 188 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 5: water that is drying up, which is a problem for 189 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 5: the turtles because they lay eggs in the water they 190 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 5: make nests. There was one turtle that during laying the 191 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 5: season didn't lay any eggs. My father says that this 192 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 5: is a sign from Mother Earth. Mother Earth has her 193 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 5: own language, and the elderly listen to her. They understand 194 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 5: her and listen to her closely. But the world outside 195 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 5: has to wait for a big thing like a hurricane, 196 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 5: a big disaster, and they'll say, oh, climate change is happening. 197 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 5: They expect there to be a big statement. But the 198 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 5: indigenous people live inside this connection. The elders can detect 199 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 5: even the smallest of changes, and what they're saying is 200 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 5: this is bad. It may be hard for you to understand. 201 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 5: You have your own outside language and the signs are 202 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 5: not being shown always. But for the elders, they see 203 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 5: everything that is happening through every change and season. They 204 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 5: can evidently tell what is happening, but the outside world 205 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 5: does not understand it. 206 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm holding up a copy of your book. 207 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: We will be Jaguars. And there's a sticker here that 208 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: is a very big deal in the book world. It 209 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: says Reese's Book Club on it. You are officially a 210 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: Reese's Book Club pick Namante, and I know that your 211 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: mission extends far beyond the literary world. But what does 212 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: this validation mean to you? 213 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: But me is SIGNI. 214 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 5: It's really significant for me because it will reach more women. 215 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 5: This book tells the story of my childhood, a story 216 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 5: of my body, my life, my youth, my trauma, a 217 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 5: trauma which I for a long time without telling my 218 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 5: father or my mother or my friends about. I kept 219 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 5: silent about it, and I didn't live very well and 220 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 5: I felt bad. So I had the courage to break 221 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 5: through this this continuing to live in fear of getting 222 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 5: hurt or being told that my trauma was my fault. No. 223 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 5: I spoke the truth, and I felt relieved. I think 224 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 5: it was a great form of therapy. I cried a lot, 225 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 5: saying that I have never had a year feel this 226 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 5: long in many years. So now I feel strengthened and free. 227 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: And I hope this book reaches many women and it 228 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 5: touches their hearts and their traumas and their environments. And 229 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 5: I had dreamed about a book being selected. In reality, 230 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 5: Mitchie told me that this book was going to have 231 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 5: a big impact. And then I heard that the book 232 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 5: had been selected, and thought that, oh, my dream had 233 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 5: come true, and this will go far and break the 234 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 5: silence of the traumas that people have endured. It will 235 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 5: be as if they were dead and are now waking up. 236 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 5: I feel that women are going to wake up and 237 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 5: use their voices, and tears came to my eyes. I 238 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 5: don't know how to express it. I was with Mitch 239 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 5: when it happened, and my dad was far away, but 240 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 5: I thought of my dad and I just started crying. 241 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 5: My struggles have reached the world and they fly free 242 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 5: like the wind. 243 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break, but we'll be 244 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: right back with more from authors Namante and Chimo and 245 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: Mitch Anderson. We're back with authors Namante and Kimo and 246 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: Mitch Anderson. Mitch, I'm so curious about your experience as 247 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: an American entering a culture different from your own, immersing 248 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: yourself in it. How did you approach this. 249 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 6: I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up 250 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 6: in the city and in the suburbs California. I grew 251 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 6: up never planted my own food or fishing or hunting, 252 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 6: turned on the tap, didn't know where the water really 253 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 6: came from. There's water there, and we would drive around 254 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 6: the cars and go to the gas station and Philip gasoline. 255 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 6: Didn't know where the gasoline came from. Really just a 256 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 6: really deeply ignorant and sheltered in existence. And when I 257 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 6: moved to the Amazon. It's a long story. I met 258 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 6: people that changed my life, met people that had friend 259 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 6: Amerhillo Creolo who was in the book who lived down 260 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 6: river from the oil fields and oil contamination and lost 261 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 6: his children to reckless oil pollution and his rivers, but 262 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 6: carried with him this bright light and termination to organize 263 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 6: his community and build solutions. I think that meeting communities 264 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 6: impacted by industrial civilization's addiction to fossil fuels and under 265 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 6: standing my complicity and our complicity in that was part 266 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 6: of my journey. Nemo writes in her book about you 267 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 6: know this like white savior mentality and complex and that 268 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 6: causes a lot of harm. And I moved to the 269 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 6: Amazon with the desire to learn from the communities and 270 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 6: unlearn a lot about my own life and upbringing. And 271 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 6: I think that curiosity and that desire to learn and 272 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 6: understand different ways of living, the depth of memory and 273 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 6: connection with the land and living in community, it was 274 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 6: really joyful for me and liberating for me. And if 275 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 6: you go down to the Amazon and spend time in communities, 276 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 6: you'll see that despite all of the threats, the logging, 277 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 6: the mining, the oil, what you're going to hear most 278 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 6: is laughter and song and kids playing in the village. 279 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 6: That's how I approached it, you know. I think from 280 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 6: a place of humility and curiosity and wanting to learn 281 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 6: and then figure out how to be useful communities that 282 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 6: are struggling to protect their way of life and the forest. 283 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: Tell Namante that she's got a good man. We need 284 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: more men like you and the world, Mitch, who are 285 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: just willing to be quiet and learn. It sounds like 286 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: that's what you did when you went to the Amazon, Sama. 287 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: I want to know the story of how you two met. 288 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 5: I was working independently with the researcher of my language, 289 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 5: my culture to be like a dictionary of her own 290 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 5: histories and songs, things like that. And there was a 291 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 5: conflict between the Daggetti and Larani who lived deep in 292 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 5: the jungle, in the area called vam Axis, the heart 293 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,239 Speaker 5: of the Jungle. It involved the oil industry and they 294 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 5: were conflicts and massacres. So I went to see the situation, 295 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 5: and there were other people who were there observing what 296 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 5: was happening and doing interviews, anthropologists from Ecuador and at 297 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 5: the international level. It was there that I'm at, Mitch, 298 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 5: and before meeting me, he had been independently working with 299 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 5: other indigenous peoples and visiting other communities. 300 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: You both keep mentioning this struggle between the tribe and 301 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: the major oil companies. Are you able, Mitch, to kind 302 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: of share what was at the core of this struggle. 303 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 6: So, the headwaters of the Amazon rainforest sits above a 304 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 6: sea of oil, and the indigenous peoples and the Warani 305 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 6: describe the oil under the forest as the blood of 306 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 6: their ancestors. And it was in the mid sixties when 307 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 6: American oil companies geologists discovered that sea of oil, and 308 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 6: they began massive oil production and exploitation in the headwaters 309 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 6: of the greatest rainforest on the planet, the Amazon, and 310 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 6: the ancestral home of Nemonte's people and dozens of other 311 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 6: indigenous cultures and companies made a deliberate decision to save 312 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 6: a couple dollars per barrel of oil produced and deliberately 313 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 6: dump toxic wastewaters into the rivers. They created shoddy infrastructure 314 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 6: and pipelines that spilled oil into the rivers as well, 315 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 6: and all of this while promising development and riches and 316 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 6: abundance and wealth. But what they ended up doing over 317 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 6: the course of half century was despoiling environment, creating the 318 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 6: possibility for colonists and loggers and miners to enter into 319 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 6: indigenous territories, and it created some of the most massive 320 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 6: wealth inequalities across the country. The areas where oil is 321 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 6: produced in the Amazon are also the poorest areas. Indigenous 322 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 6: peoples of the Amazon were not poor, They didn't live 323 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 6: in They lived in abundance until the oil companies arrived, 324 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 6: surrounded their villages, roads, oil infrastructure, and created essentially a 325 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 6: situation of dependence. And then fast forward sixty seventy years 326 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 6: and in twenty twelve, the Equadorian government decided that they 327 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 6: were going to auction off seven million acres of the 328 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 6: Ecuadorian Amazon in the south central part of the amazon 329 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 6: An area, overlapping Nemonth's ancestral land and where she was born, 330 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 6: and they didn't consult with the indigenous communities. They essentially 331 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 6: flew in and planes and helicopters and had community leaders 332 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 6: signed things that they didn't understand. And essentially this was 333 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 6: a death sentence for indigenous cultures and a death sentence 334 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 6: for the forest. And the Monthly became the first woman 335 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 6: leader of her people. Together with the Sable Alliance and 336 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 6: Amazon Frontlines and her people. She ended up leading zil 337 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 6: Distant Struggle, leveraging new technologies, storytelling, media, legal strategies to 338 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 6: file a lawsuit against the government and show that indigenous 339 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 6: peoples have the right to decide what happens in their land. Ultimately, 340 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 6: she won, her people won. The struggle protected a half 341 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 6: million acres of forest and set a precedent for indigenous 342 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 6: peoples across the Amazon to protect their forests as well 343 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 6: and ultimately keep millions of barrels of oil in the 344 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 6: ground that otherwise would be burned and would accelerate the 345 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 6: climate crisis and climate change globally. 346 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: Wow, you both have developed two organizations that advocate for 347 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: the preservation of the rainforest and its people. One is 348 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: called the Sabo Alliance and the other is the Amazon 349 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: front Lines. Can you walk us through what those organizations 350 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: each do. 351 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 5: Are Yes, there's an organization Sable Alliance, which is just 352 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 5: the members of four nationalities of unities. We've formed this 353 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 5: organization to be able to defend our territory and identity, 354 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 5: our culture and to empower young people and women to 355 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 5: be leaders. We know that our territory is threatened daily 356 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 5: by capitalism and our government. Our territory has resources, minerals, petroleum, 357 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 5: but it's been deforceded, so Alliance formed. I'm the person 358 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 5: who helped found it. Alliance is the result of dreams. 359 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 5: We have allies with the organization Amazon Frontlines teams from 360 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 5: different places like Columbia, Peru, the United States, Europe. They 361 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 5: come to Ecuador and accompany our organization in our communities 362 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 5: with a lot of listening and respect. Unity is very 363 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 5: important to me, not only with other indigenous people and 364 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 5: their knowledge of the world, but the world outside needs 365 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 5: to understand the too. Our collaborators have been very close 366 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 5: and affectionate as friends and brothers. That's what we try 367 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 5: to do to teach others this knowledge and about the 368 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 5: threat globally that comes from the outside. So that's our 369 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 5: dream and we are trying to strengthen it. We've been 370 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 5: working on this for nine years. Our collaborators are also 371 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 5: here to guide and teach us about new technologies, so 372 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 5: they have a lot to learn from us and we 373 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 5: have a lot to learn from them. 374 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: If our listeners want to support you, what can they do. 375 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 5: We buy a book and buy it for your friends, 376 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 5: or get it for Christmas which is coming up soon, 377 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 5: so that people can learn more about the jungle, learn 378 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 5: more about indigenous culture, and look at our web page 379 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 5: about our work with organizations and support what we do 380 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 5: for the planet. This book is the result of my 381 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 5: people's resistance and the resistance of other peoples from the Amazon. 382 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 5: So our hope is to see with next steps that 383 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 5: and I don't know what the future will hold, but 384 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 5: I know that making this knowledge visible is very important 385 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 5: so the outside world can understand and respect it. 386 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: Well, Mitch and Amante, as we wrap up this conversation, 387 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: here's something that we'd love to leave our bright Side 388 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: besties with today. Is there a Waarani word or concept 389 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: that weighs heavily on you throughout this conversation that perhaps 390 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: can't be translated in English. 391 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 3: I get that, see listen. 392 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 5: I have a lot of words that cannot really be 393 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 5: translated into English or in Spanish, like rituals or songs. 394 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 5: I don't really know how to say it, but it 395 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 5: is joy. For example, there is how we express joy. 396 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 5: There's no word or sound for it in these languages, 397 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 5: like the sound that we make coo, which is how 398 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 5: we express joy. I think that this book is the 399 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 5: way that you share your voice to tell this history 400 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 5: to your friends, your family. I also feel like this 401 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 5: is a very powerful story. It is a symbol of 402 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 5: resistance of ancestors, of women and children, the message of 403 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 5: my territory. 404 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: You are both such an inspiration. Thank you, Thank you 405 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. 406 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 4: Grass that is the meing is meaning. Thanks to you 407 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 4: all as well. 408 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 5: The space is very important to be able to tell 409 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 5: my history and my work. This book is the result 410 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 5: of resistance, my people's resistance and the resistance of other 411 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 5: peoples in the Amazon. We hope to see you soon. 412 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having us. 413 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: Namante Nankimo is a well Ronnie leader, an activist, and 414 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: the author of We Will Be Jaguars. Her husband, Mitch Anderson, 415 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: is the co author of We Will Be Jaguars and 416 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: the founder and executive director of Amazon Frontlines. 417 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: We have to take another short break, but we'll be 418 00:25:52,320 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: back in just a minute. Don't go anywhere, okay, Vesti's 419 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 2: before we go today, we have a special segment for 420 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 2: you in partnership with Airbnb. Nicole Lappman is a finance 421 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: reporter turned entrepreneur and the host of the podcast Money Rehab, 422 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: where She breaks down all things finance, from getting out 423 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 2: of debt and starting to invest to finding the right 424 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: financial advisor, and today she's here to dive into one 425 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: of her favorite topics, building passive income. Okay, Nicole, you 426 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: have been telling me and telling the world that we 427 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 2: should be leaning in and being a rich bitch for 428 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 2: a long time. I remember being in Chicago seeing you 429 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: on TV talking about money, and you said that you 430 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: were talking about money because it wasn't spoken about in 431 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: your household growing up. 432 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 7: It wasn't spoken about in my household. It wasn't taught 433 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 7: at school. I mean, did you learn it at school. 434 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 3: Because no, I definitely didn't learn it at school. 435 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, and very few of us talk about at home. Look, 436 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 7: I think we should cut ourselves some slack because we 437 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 7: don't learn this stuff in school, so we can't expect 438 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 7: to be financial perfectionists from the jump. We all make 439 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 7: money mistakes, myself included when I went to school in Chicago. Actually, 440 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 7: I got into a credit card debt right after I graduated. 441 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 7: I had to put myself on a brown rice and 442 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 7: beans diet because it felt fancier than Robin so I 443 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 7: could pay down my debt. You can't fix money problems 444 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 7: that you don't admit you have, which is why we 445 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 7: talk about that all the time on Money Rehab. We 446 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 7: all need a little money intervention now and then. We 447 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 7: all have money problems, and I think the biggest issue 448 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 7: is that we don't talk enough about them. I think 449 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 7: it's important to remember that personal finance is personal, but 450 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 7: it's also not that complicated, and it can definitely feel 451 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 7: that way because there's just so much jargon in it. 452 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 7: And that's why my mission is to create a jargon 453 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 7: free zone in my books, podcasts, across my company, because 454 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 7: I I think that's the way to make all of 455 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 7: this more approachable. 456 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: Well, one of the conversations of the many that you 457 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: have are about side hustles, and I was reading that 458 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: women are actually fifty percent more likely than men to 459 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 2: have a side hustle, So I'd love to focus on 460 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: that today. On your podcast, you said millionaires have an 461 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 2: average of seven streams of income. 462 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 3: That was shocking to me. 463 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: I definitely don't have seven streams of income, but I'm 464 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 2: also not a millionaire, so tell me what I'm doing wrong. 465 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 7: Yeah, the average millionaire does have seven streams of income 466 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 7: between their actual income businesses, rental properties, investments, passive income 467 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 7: and the rest. Most of us can't survive off an 468 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 7: income alone, let alone by a house or retire from it. 469 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 7: So I think we all want to copy and paste 470 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 7: what the rich to do in ways that work for us. 471 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 7: Passive income is ideal, right. We think of income that's 472 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 7: passive as something that doesn't require active work. 473 00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: But a lot of. 474 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 7: Passive income streams are just myths, as you know, and 475 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 7: they actually require a lot of effort or startup costs 476 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 7: to accomplish. The one that anyone can do is invest 477 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 7: into the market by getting dividends or interest payments. That's 478 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 7: the way your money can work for you while you're 479 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 7: literally doing nothing, while you're sleeping. 480 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: You know. 481 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 7: Another go to answer for a lot of us is 482 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 7: renting our house on Airbnb. If you're traveling somewhere and 483 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 7: your house just sits, they're empty, you could collect cash 484 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 7: instead of that, so you could rent your parking spot. 485 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 7: You could sell stock photos, you can invest in boring 486 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 7: businesses like vending machines or ATMs. There's a lot of 487 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 7: different options for you, but it's definitely something that we 488 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 7: should all aim for. 489 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: Well, you said, Personal finance is personal. So I'm gonna 490 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: ask you a personal question. How many streams of income 491 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 2: do you have? 492 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 7: I have more than seven. I actually talk about this 493 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 7: in my books. I talk about how much money I make. 494 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 7: I'm very, very open and honest about it. So, yeah, 495 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 7: I go through different streams of my own income, and 496 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 7: they're more than seven. But the the easiest ones are 497 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 7: investing into the stock market. 498 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 2: When anyone is thinking about pursuing a side hustle, my 499 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: sort of question is when does it crossover from hobby 500 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: to side hustle. How much should a side hustle make 501 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 2: to be worth your time. 502 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 7: I think anything that it makes counts as an income 503 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 7: stream or a revenue stream. There is a fine line 504 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 7: between having a hobby and what I call a jobby. 505 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 7: There are a lot of things that we can do 506 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 7: that could make money that are just hobbies, and that's okay. 507 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 7: Not everything has to make money that we do, and 508 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 7: oftentimes when we transition into having that hobby make us money, 509 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 7: it doesn't bring us the same type of joy. 510 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 4: Right. So, if you love baking cupcakes and you. 511 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 7: Bake cupcakes for all your friends and it gives you 512 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 7: so much joy, it's almost meditative to be cooking, but 513 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 7: once you start selling them, then you have to do 514 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 7: the accounting. 515 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 4: Then you have to clean up. You have to be 516 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 4: the janitor. You know, when you're starting a business like. 517 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 7: That, you wear a lot of hats, and so just 518 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 7: remember that not everything you do has to be a 519 00:30:59,080 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 7: money maker. 520 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: Well, in that vein, what is your analysis on whether 521 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: an investment in a side hustle is worth the risk? 522 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: How do you know when to walk away from a 523 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: passive income opportunity that's not working. 524 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 7: I think it's in my second book, Boss Bitch, where 525 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 7: you can do a cost benefit analysis of what the 526 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 7: startup costs will take and what the ROI is, because 527 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 7: you really want to. 528 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 4: Just lay it all out. The biggest anxiety comes from. 529 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 7: Not knowing about your finances, and so oftentimes we suffer 530 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 7: more in imagination than in reality. We think that either 531 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 7: it's too expensive or it's not making enough money, but 532 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 7: we don't really stop and think how much is it 533 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 7: making or how much is it costing. So I think 534 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 7: it's about being really honest from the jump about what 535 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 7: it is. And again, not everything has to make money, 536 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 7: but clearly laying out what that cost benefit analysis is 537 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 7: will help you narrow it down. 538 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: Nicole, tell me more about what made you decide to 539 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: host on Airbnb. 540 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 7: I think for me what was important to think about 541 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 7: was just the time that went into it. I wanted 542 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 7: to have something that was passive, but starting to host 543 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 7: on my own felt really daunting. I really liked the 544 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 7: new co hosting feature that they have on Airbnb. Brian Chesky, 545 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 7: the CEO, just came on our show and talked about 546 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 7: that because I think it takes a lot of the 547 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 7: complication out of hosting. You know, if you're going to 548 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 7: go away and you were renting your house for a week, 549 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 7: obviously if you live somewhere else, you can't come back 550 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 7: and change your sheets, and so I think that trying 551 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 7: to take out some of the friction there has become 552 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 7: easier and easier on Airbnb, you know. I think it's 553 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 7: just about looking at your assets and seeing where they 554 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 7: can make more money for you. 555 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: I really loved the episode of Brian on your podcast, 556 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 2: and he talked about what makes a great host and 557 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: his hospitality philosophy on your podcast. One of the fun 558 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: things that stuck out to me was he bakes his 559 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: signature chocolate chip cookies for guests I'm curious if you 560 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: have any special touches when you host. 561 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 7: I like to think of what somebody might be when 562 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 7: they're staying and also stalking drinks, water, wine, that type 563 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 7: of stuff. 564 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 4: But I think you can do small touches. 565 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 7: If a guest mentions that they're coming to town to 566 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 7: do a tour or an activity, you can find something 567 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 7: local that makes their visit a little bit more special. 568 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: For anybody who's listening to this and thinking, I am 569 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: a parent, I have two jobs already, Like, why would 570 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: I get myself into the side hustle game? 571 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: What would you say? 572 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 7: I think that it's about ultimately how much you keep, 573 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 7: not how much you make, that matters the most. And 574 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 7: so I think your base income can't grow real lasting 575 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 7: generational wealth. There are easy ways to make extra income 576 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 7: that will not require you to do a ton of work. 577 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 7: And I think that we work so hard for our money. 578 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 7: As you know all too well, it's time at return 579 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 7: the favor, right And so when I started investing for 580 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 7: the first time, it amazed me that I could invest 581 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 7: in low cost s and P five hundred index funds 582 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 7: or atfs. These are just collections of stocks that track 583 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 7: the whole market rather than individual companies that have a 584 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 7: lot of risks. You have built in diversification at a 585 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 7: low cost, and I think that keeping that in mind 586 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 7: helps us. 587 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 4: Remember that we flip that equation. Our money really can 588 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 4: work for us. 589 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 3: Before you leave me. 590 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 2: Anytime I have the opportunity to speak to a financial expert, 591 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: I ask them this question, what is the number one 592 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: negotiation tip you've ever received. 593 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 7: Negotiation for a job or negotiation for contract. I love negotiating. 594 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 7: Negotiating is the only cardio I've been getting lately. 595 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:41,919 Speaker 4: But tell me more. 596 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 3: I'll tell you this the one that has always stuck 597 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 3: out to me. 598 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 2: I interviewed Rebecca min Coff years ago, and she said, 599 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: throw out a number that makes you want to throw up, 600 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: and that always stuck with me. 601 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 7: Bo Saint John talks about that too, like throwing out 602 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 7: a ridiculous number. I think that that can work in 603 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 7: the right circumstances for sure, because you know, oftentimes you 604 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 7: won't get to that ridiculous number if you aren't the 605 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 7: one to throw it out first. But sometimes people can 606 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 7: say that's negotiating against yourself, right, I think in the 607 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 7: right scenario, it's awesome. 608 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 2: That's well said Okay, I know you're a responsible gal, 609 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 2: But do you invest your money that you make from 610 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: being an airbnb host or do you go out and 611 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 2: spend it on green stilettos or anything else green stilettos? Well, 612 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 2: I know your signature color is green. 613 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 7: Oh, yes, I think that green is always in style. Yes, 614 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 7: wherever I can, I try to invest. It really does 615 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 7: become addicting. 616 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 4: Are you an investor. Do we have to talk about this? 617 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 3: No, we can. 618 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 619 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,439 Speaker 2: I have been an investor for about three years and 620 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 2: it's totally changed my life. Actually, when I was going 621 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: through a little bit of a harder financial time, it 622 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 2: was that passive income every month that was really helping 623 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: me stay afloat. 624 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 625 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 7: I think it becomes really addicting when you see what 626 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 7: it can do for you. As it grows, you just 627 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 7: want to put more and more into it. Yes, and 628 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 7: you have to kind of have a balance between forgiving 629 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 7: your former self for maybe what she didn't know with 630 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 7: financial literacy or about investing. Because I was reporting on 631 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 7: this stuff. God more than twenty years ago, when Google 632 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 7: announced Gmail or Apple announced their iPod, I found these 633 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 7: old old videos of me when I was eighteen on 634 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 7: the floor of the exchange, and I wish I'd put 635 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 7: money in Apple or in Google at the time. And 636 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 7: every time I see stuff like that, I'm like, my god, 637 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 7: why did I buy anything? 638 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 4: I should have just put it all in those stocks. 639 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 7: And sometimes you have remorse for like, oh, I wish 640 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 7: I would have known this earlier. But you're never as 641 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 7: young as you are today. Today is as good a 642 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 7: day as any to get started. And you can only 643 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 7: forgive your former self or what she didn't know, but 644 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 7: give your future self some tough love now that you 645 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 7: do know more and now that you do have the resources. 646 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 2: I like the idea of giving your future self some 647 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 2: tough love. That's great. 648 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's true. We all didn't learn this stuff in school. 649 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 7: Most of us didn't learn it at home. I grew 650 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 7: up in an immigrant family. Nobody was talking about it, 651 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 7: and so that sucks and that's not fair. But ultimately 652 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 7: it only hurts me if I continue to bury my 653 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 7: head in the sand because of that excuse. 654 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 2: Nicole, I would say, like seven years ago, my mom 655 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: called me, and so my mom was a CPA sells mortgages, 656 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 2: still works to this day, and she is like excited 657 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: by money. She loves talking about it, understanding it my girls. 658 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: Seven years ago, she calls me and she was like, Okay, 659 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: I saw this girl on TV. 660 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 3: You need to know her. She's fabulous. Her name, Oh 661 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 3: is Nicole Lapping not me? Oh my god. 662 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 7: Mom. 663 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. So you've been speaking to I think to everybody, 664 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 2: but particularly to women, for such a long time. 665 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 3: You do really great work. 666 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 667 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: That's so nice. 668 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time. 669 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 4: Thanks Danielle, You're the best. 670 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 2: Nicole Lappan is the host of the Money Rehab podcast 671 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: and the founder of Money News Network. This segment was 672 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 2: produced in partnership with Airbnb. 673 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: That's it For today's show Tomorrow, It's Wellness Wednesday. Professor 674 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: Sarah Berry joins us to talk about how diet and 675 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: nutrition can impact our metaballsal health. 676 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 677 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 678 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 3: I'm simone Voice. 679 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: You can find me at simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok. 680 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,479 Speaker 3: Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's ro Ba. 681 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: Y see you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.