WEBVTT - Law & Order vs Nazi Fight Clubs 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.439 All media. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.120 Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. On 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.959 this show, we try to apply political and cultural analysis 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.560 towards speculative futurity. What can we learn about the future 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.600 by looking at how our present relates to our past 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.079 and now? As we approach a whole decade of a 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:26.000 resurgent far right gaining cultural prominence, we're entering a moment 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.400 in time where pop culture and media is starting to 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.400 catch up to the current political zeitgeist. Our media landscape 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.720 is inundated with depictions of unreality, political extremism, collapse, and 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.600 rising civil tensions. Some of these succeed more than others, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:45.159 but most are still deeply neoliberal in their depictions. The 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.839 Obama produced a Netflix movie from last year, Leave the 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.360 World Behind, was a speculative look at a collapse orchestrated 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.640 to jumpstart a second American Civil War. Alex Garland's voyeuristic 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.000 Civil War movie just released, which sort of gestures at 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:04.400 politics with offhand mentions of portlaind maoists and the Antifa massacre. 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.840 But as a movie it completely fails to understand the 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.959 moment we currently occupy, and I believe is even more 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.160 out of touch than the Obama Collapse movie, but we're 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.440 not talking about that today. For my thoughts on that, 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.679 you can look at my review on Letterboxed and refer 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.319 to the reviews I liked for a more robust critique 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.080 of Garland's deeply troubling depiction of quote unquote neutral war 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:30.679 journalism as uncritically virtuous. Instead, this episode will be turning 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.880 to a depiction of modern day extremism that I'm not 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.720 sure is better. It's still deeply neoliberal and honestly more 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.960 overtly copaganda, but one that I still find more interesting 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.720 and I believe does understand our political moment much better 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.280 than Alex Garland does, who comes off as less and 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.559 less intelligent in every single interview he does. Last month, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.840 the television show Law and Order did an episode focusing 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.280 on Robert Rundo's far right fitness groups, the White Supremacist 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.840 to Active Clubs. To discuss, I am joined by longtime 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:07.640 far right researcher Molly Conger. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.560 Hello, Molly, Hey, thanks for having me on. And you 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.080 probably didn't know this about me. I am a secret 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.079 enjoyer of police procedurals, so I've actually watched a lot 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.079 of Law and Order. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.519 I have never seen a single episode of Law and 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:24.519 Order until this week, so I was really inundated. I 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.960 don't know. I watch a lot of kind of troubling media, though, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.639 and media that tries to comment on current political extremism, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.160 and often when I talk with my friends about my 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.280 interest in viewing things like this episode, I get confused 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:44.919 or even adversarial reactions, and I do truly understand their hesitations. 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.160 Pop culture media like this is often very sensational, turning 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.440 very real pain, trauma and death caused by the far 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.080 right into this form of kind of mindless entertainment, and 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.440 often reifying the role of like good government and good 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:03.560 cops to maintain order against racist insurgents, even though more 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.960 and more of their ilk begin to occupy public office 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.399 and become cops themselves. But politics and culture are hand 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.679 in hand. Lots of what became the al Right grew 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.280 out of gamergait, and I think there is a real 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.799 use in understanding how the political activities of fascists and 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.760 anti fascists are depicted in mass media. I believe there 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.760 is some value in knowing what NBC and the writers 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.000 of Law and Order think an active club is as 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.880 like a sort of cultural litmus test, and also to 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.800 see how well people like us are doing in trying 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.000 to educate about these types of groups. But I totally 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.960 understand that not everyone wants to suffer through a forty 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.160 minute Law and Order episode about cops beating the Nazis. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.520 So instead I will watch it for you and talk 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.800 about exactly how they depicted this with Molly here today. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.320 So I think the most efficient way for me to 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.920 do this is to kind of give a recap of 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.800 the episode, and as I start going through it, we 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.440 will discuss at certain points. I can't just summarize all 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.560 of it in like a short paragraph. I mean I could. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:06.960 I just think that would miss out on a lot 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.520 of stuff. So instead we're gonna go through the episode 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.800 and comment as things happen. And this episode ends up 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.719 being about a lot more than just an active club. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.520 It's actually pulling from a few other influences that we 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.440 will talk about probably towards the end. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.479 Anyway, that felt sloppy to me. 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.080 I feel like they try to tackle several specific Like 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.120 I don't know how familiar are with with the Law 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.680 and Order franchise, but they call these episodes the ripped 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.520 from the headlines episodes right where they take a real life, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.120 high profile case and write an episode about it. But 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.280 they tried to combine several elements that I felt didn't 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.320 blend well, and it deeped them more material to work 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.159 with than they were able to address, and so it 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.320 just felt it just felt unresolved to me. 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.720 I mean, I assume lots of these police procedurals are 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.160 kind of undercooked, as like pieces of art. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.520 I mean, the Dick Wolf Exting universe is cheering out 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.159 so much content that, like, I don't know how they're 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.760 still doing it. I mean, Olivia Benson has been on 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.440 television since I was a child. 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:15.080 So let's get into the actual episode. The cold open begins. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.279 It's night in New York City. A nervous looking white 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.440 woman enters a subway station, and she's startled by a 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.960 sleeping homeless man. As the subway approaches, eerie music starts playing. 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.000 The anxious woman walks onto the subway and a black 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.520 man cat calls her as a group of other men 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.320 kind of join in. The woman quickly switches to a 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.240 more empty subway car, where she then bumps into another 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.080 black man whose eyes look kind of vacant and is 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.640 making weird grunting noises, and then the man appears to 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.520 lunge towards the woman. We cut to crime scene tape 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.280 stretched across the subway station. Two police detectives to enter 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.000 the subway car, where a dead body lies on the ground. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.440 But it's not the scared white woman. It's the oddly 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.880 grunting black man who appears to have been strangled to 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.680 death with no apparent witnesses. He's identified as twenty four 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.520 year old Ellis Joyner, a stand up comedian who a 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.800 detective says, quote came from down South love to talk 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:13.279 about how much he loved New York. The other detective remarks, 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.640 great place to live, not such a great place to die. 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.520 Cut the title screen with music that I assume has 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.640 not been updated in like thirty years, because the actually 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.520 it's it sounds so so nineties. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.440 They can't change it now. There are thousands of episodes 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.960 of the show Garrison, It's history. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.119 So already with the cold open, we have like ooh, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.839 the dangerous subway, scary homeless people, this poor white woman. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:43.880 A lot of stuff's being thrown at. 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.960 Us, right and obviously playing on the idea that like, oh, 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.279 the white woman is going to be under that that sheet, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:50.839 like that's going to be her body. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.960 Totally, totally. So, as we returned to the episode, a 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.479 forensic pathologist says the man died after being put in 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.320 a quote unquote sleeper hold, which cut off oxygen to 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.440 his brain. His medical records reveal he also had severe 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.960 asthma and as hyperinflated lungs indicate he was currently suffering 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.400 an asthma attack when he was killed by the lethal 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.960 chokeold in the fifty minute window for a time of death, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.560 the train passed through six subway stations, four of which 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.520 all had broken cameras. 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.760 Which is supposed to remind the viewer that we really 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.680 need to fund the subway cops. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.680 Correct. A lot of this episode is about how subway 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.400 surveillance is under equipped to deal with crime. And we 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.200 could probably fix a lot of problems if there was 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.520 more security cameras in the subway. 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.360 Or just one hundred cops. What if they put one 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:37.440 hundred cops on there. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.720 Sure, or more cops and like, to my surprise, the 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.600 subway in New York City historically has not had security 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.160 cameras inside the actual train cars, though they are expected 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.640 to by twenty twenty six. But like the light rail 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.080 and Portland the kind of like not not subway, but 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.240 like the public transit train in Atlanta, they all have 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.960 cameras inside the actual train cars. I was a prose 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.000 I said that the subway in New York did not. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:07.360 I just never knew that anyway. Back to lawn Order, Ellis, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.080 Joyner's credit card identified the station that he got on at, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.640 which also had broken cameras, but police pulled streetcam footage 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.000 from a few blocks away, which shows Joyner getting into 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.560 a fight with another comedian where Joyner got punched. The 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.040 other man is recognized as Malcolm Paige, a stand up 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.200 who quote used to open for Chappelle back in the day. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:32.760 Quote so already setting up something fantastic. The detectives interview 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.280 Page and show him social media footage of Joiners is 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.280 set from last night, making fun of Page for being 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:42.240 old and irrelevant. Page says that Joiner verbally attacked him 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.040 because Joiner quote got his panties in a twist unquote 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.640 over some of Page's jokes. Quote hit too close to 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:54.640 home for fancy boy unquote, And when Page says fancy boy, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.160 he does this little shaky hand thing, which the detective 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.400 asks if that's supposed to apply that Joyner is gay, 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.640 which the older comedian says, yes. 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.120 I mean I've seen this sort of like limpressed hand movie. 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.360 Did It was just like a weird like. 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.360 Shaking like hand like fancy you sort of. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.120 Shake your hand side to side when you mean like 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.559 kind of or maybe exactly exactly hand movie. It was 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.880 homophobic gestures, right, it was. It was really weird. I 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.160 found this whole interaction kind of bizarre and unnecessary, like 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:29.920 you write in this kind of red herring when you're 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.200 trying to fill time. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.640 But they had plenty, they had plenty of script. They 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:34.240 didn't need this. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.720 This episode's so focused on different forms of racism, so 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.640 much adding in this like weird gay subplot doesn't. It 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.320 doesn't end up going anywhere, and it's just kind of bizarre. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.559 So anyway, this basically this older comedian was telling homophobic jokes. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.640 Joiner then made fun of him on stage, and this 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.480 older comedian Page assaulted him outside. Page then left in 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.600 an uber, and Joyner ran off with his boyfriend, who, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.840 according to Paige, weren't getting a long either. So there's 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.320 some kind of like like a new suspect arises exactly exactly. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.520 So police look through joiners emails and texts in the 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.839 cloud quote unquote, and can't find any record of a boyfriend, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.840 making detectives surmise that he must have been in the closet, 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:23.120 which is a baffling thing to surmise. Cops then contact 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:28.079 quote the Traveler app. That's that's Traveler spelled t r 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:29.520 a v l R. 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.120 You have to cut out a vowel or it's not 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:33.080 an apple. 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:39.920 So legally, not Grinder gives NYPD complete access to Joiner's account. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.360 And it's I'm sorry, Like, are gay male sex apps 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.720 usually like pink and purple. The color scheme is pink 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:47.200 and purple. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.439 Yeah, not my experience, but yeah, I think it's also 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.520 a referenced to like like travelers, like fellow Travelers right 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.360 right when it was obviously supposed to be Grinder. But 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:01.160 it's just it's just Grinder. It doesn't matter. But cop Legally, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.560 not Grinder gives NYPD full access to Joiner's account, which 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.959 shows he's dating a guy named Michael Zain. And this 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.120 whole thing is, this whole thing's so wild because if 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.160 you're dating someone you should not be primarily communicating through Grinder. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.160 And he said later they've been dating for six six months. 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.760 Six months, They've never texted, They're just using Grinder to chat. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.640 Whenever you go on Grinder, the goal is to get 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.760 off of Grinder as soon as possible. Why why would 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:33.119 privately texting each other instead out you as gay anymore 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.600 than having an identifiable Grinder profile. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.000 I feel like having Grinder up on your phone and 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.800 it has a very distinctive like text tone, like that's 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.520 way more likely to out you dog just text regular exactly. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.080 It makes no sense anyway. The Traveler messages between Joiner 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.679 and Michael Zaane indicate a sort of ongoing fight or argument. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.240 Now Zain has a prior conviction for aggravated assault last year. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.520 They didn't actually, so I went back and I went 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.840 back and double check this because I have some beef. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:00.640 He doesn't have a corect. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.079 They said he was arrested for assault last year. 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.400 He was just charged. He wasn't connected at my mistake, yes, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.520 but also the episode does not make that very clear. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.000 No, because I have a reason, I went back and 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:12.280 checked because it makes no sense. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.240 So, yeah, his boyfriend was charged last year for aggravated 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.160 assault so the detectives pay him a visit because they 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.280 think he's like a suspect, right. Zain says that he 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.520 didn't kill Joyner, he loved him, and that their fight 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.679 on the night of the murder was about to Joiner's 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.160 own self hatred and Zayin believing that things would be 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.360 better if they could just live openly as a couple, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.560 but Joyner was concerned that it would threaten his comedy career. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.000 Zain maintained nothing ever got physical between each other, and 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.600 explained that his assault charge was from trying to break 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.240 up a bar fight, but when the cops arrived, they 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.560 targeted Zaane because he was black, to which the two 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.360 NYPD detectives nod solemnly. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.200 They're like, yeah, it does sound like something we would do. 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.720 Yeah, other cops are racist, but not us. They're like okay. 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.920 Zain claims that Joyner wanted time, so he got off 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.200 the train a few stops before and went home, but 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.240 mentions that there was a white guy with short brown hair, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.480 bright yellow sneakers and a hoodie with some kind of 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.640 symbol on the back who was looking weirdly at him 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.880 and Joiner. Security camera footage shows someone matching that description 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.840 exiting the train car one stop before Joiner's body was found, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.280 and one of the detectives recognizes the symbol. We will 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:31.960 learn more about this mysterious hoodie, sneaker and symbol after 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:45.200 this ad break. So I first, I just want to 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.200 describe what this symbol is. 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:48.079 It is. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.840 It's this octagon with spiky corners and like two k's 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.880 facing like like like one facing backwards. Yeah, one one 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.920 facing forward with one facing backwards, but smushed together, and 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.600 the shared middle pillar is like an arrow pointing upwards. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:06.920 It looked like nothing to me. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.920 They tried to desire something that looked vaguely racist, but 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.439 it's just not. It just it just looks dumb. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.200 It looks like, I don't like a tech company logo 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.520 or something like. Yeah, it does not evoke anything for me. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.920 No, it's it's not good. They're trying to make it 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.160 scary with like lots of like different like angles, but 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.720 like it's it's it's not it's not scary anyway. The 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.040 detectives arrive at an MMA gym in Chelsea called the 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.280 Kovak Academy. It opened about a year ago and they've 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.080 been peppering the neighborhood with flyers. 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.400 Well, that sounds familiar. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.280 Extremely accurate. The cops are graded by a jacked staff 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.240 member with a shaved head, and they asked to speak 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.080 with the owner, and this skinhead employee says that they 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.680 just missed them. But there's a picture on the wall 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.560 of the owner holding a trophy and he's wearing the 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.360 exact outfit in the subway security footage. The detectives are 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.360 told that he was getting a cab to the airport. Now, 0:14:58.480 --> 0:14:59.680 I thought I thought this was going to be like 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.760 a clas Rundo move right, do some crimes flee the country, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.000 But allegedly he was actually flying to Toronto, which actually 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.200 will kind of get explained later on. Cops are outside 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:12.840 to see if they can spot him before he leaves, 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:14.920 and they see a man in yellow sneakers and a 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.360 logo emblazoned hoodie walking towards a cab. They sprint tap 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.320 him on the shoulder. The MMA guy throws detectives against 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.520 the car, starts fighting, not realizing their NYPD because he 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.560 has like earbuds on. Cops pull their guns, then he surrenders. 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.720 The owner of the gym is named Domino. Domino. It's 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:33.520 a weird it's weird name. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.880 I think Dominall. It's like and I think it's an 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:36.480 Irish name. 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.440 Dominall. Yeah, dominol Kovak. He has four previous convictions for assault, 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.760 all against black victims, with two charged as hate crimes. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.720 A detective notes that Kovak has a tattoo on his 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.680 right arm of laced up combat boots with the number 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:56.120 eighty eight, which the detective calls a white nationalists symbol. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:03.040 Okay, okay, here, I looked. I looked hard. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.720 I looked hard through a lot of photographs of Nazi tattoos, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.720 and the boot tattoo is not common and you only 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.160 see it in skinhead culture. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.840 And this guy's not a skinhead. The actual owner of 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.640 the gym does not appear to be a skinhead. He 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.040 has like a big beard. He has like long brown, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.080 like longish brown, not long, but like medium shaggy brown hair. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.240 But but yeah, he has this combat boot eighty eight tattoo. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.760 Like that's there are a lot of Nazi tattoos, and 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.400 that's not the one I would have picked for this character. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.880 No, it's obviously like some lawn order writer googled like 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.480 Nazi tattoo and just picked that. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.320 Like, but That's the thing is, if that's what they 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.400 had done, I don't think they would have picked that because, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:42.640 like I said, I was looking through all of these 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.320 sort of like lists of different kinds of tattoos, yeah, 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.040 by different nonprofits. There is one one picture in all 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.160 of these databases of a tattoo that's even similar to this, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.120 where it's a pair of boots with the number eight 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:57.720 on each boot. I found one. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.480 Yeah, I mean I think that that is the one used. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.080 I think they did want to like bring in some 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.879 level of like the idea of dog whistling kind of 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.720 with eighty eight, which will come up later in the episode, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.240 but it's it's not well done anyway. Kovac says that 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.960 he's never seen Ellis Joyner before and that the night 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.800 of the murder, he was running a late night intensive 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:23.320 training program called the Combat Academy based on the Navy 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:28.120 Seals training course. So many red flags are going off here. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.520 It ended around midnight. Afterwards, Kovec said he walked to 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.920 his girlfriend's near by apartment. He was never on the subway, 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.320 but he explains that the gray hoodie and yellow sneakers 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.680 are part of the Combat Academy uniform that all members wear. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.399 It's so important to wear matching outfits with your boys, 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.520 And in one of the. 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.240 More accurate moments of the episode, as soon as he's 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.359 in even a little trouble, he gives out all the 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.240 names of the members in his group. 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.320 Did not even wait for a subpoena. He was like, 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:58.800 would you like their credit card numbers? 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:00.880 It did not hesitate. He's like, no, oh, absolutely, I'll 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:02.800 I'll give a DNA, so I'll tell you. I'll tell 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.520 you the names all the guys. It wasn't me, I swear. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:11.440 So the detectives locate they're recently divorced Brandon Arnaut outside 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.399 of the I like that they added the detail he 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.600 was recently divorced, but this never actually. 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:17.080 Caught come up. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.320 Does not matter the second. The second they walk up 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:21.600 to him on the street, he was like, oh, my 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:22.159 wife left me. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:23.720 My wife left me last year. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.560 Me so I got really into grappling with the boys 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:28.480 because my wife left me. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.600 Yes, exactly. So they find him outside the elementary school 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.679 he teaches that and which. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:35.920 Also never comes up again. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:41.159 Nope, and after very very little questioning, very tame questioning, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.360 he immediately admits to killing Joyner, saying it was an accident, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.320 and that Joyner was attacking a woman on the subway 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.760 and Brandon here was trying to protect her. At the 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.600 police station, the police say that they can't find any 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.320 footage of the woman Brandon is talking about, But the 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.879 defense attorney asks if the cameras were even working at 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.120 every station, to which the cops roll their eyes if 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.239 like really sartiastical answer. They're like, oh my god, this 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.159 fucking guy asking if the cameras are broken. The cops 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.399 tell Brandon that they found Ellis Joiner's missing cell phone 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.640 in his gym locker. They searched his house, they didn't 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.920 find anything, but they got his They got a Warren 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:20.879 for his jim locker and found the cell phone and 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.720 they alleged that he stole it after he realized that 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.480 Joyner recorded a video of the fight that ended up 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.560 with Joiner being strangled to death. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.439 And that's something we call consciousness of guilt. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.400 The defense attorney ends the interview immediately as soon as 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:36.960 they bring this. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.600 Up, like, why wouldn't you tell your lawyer that tell 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.800 him that before you go in the search. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.320 History, and Brandon's laptop shows him trying to figure out 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.800 how to unlock the phone to delete the video. Now 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.200 this part's a little bit odd. The cops debate even 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.320 though quote he admits to killing Joyner, I'm not sure 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.440 we have enough evidence to charge unquote, which is not true. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.960 You have so much of it, you have a confession, 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.240 you have so much evidence to charge. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.800 This is so bizarre, Like, how often do you have 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.760 a recording of a murder happening and then the guy 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:09.199 admitting that. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:14.040 It admits, Yeah, it's ridiculous. They charge on far far less. 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.560 They have that conversation in the room where they're like, well, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.040 we can charge him or we can let him go. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.440 He's like, I mean, I understand a conversation about like 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.840 is this murder too, is this manslaughter? Yeah, but it's 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:25.439 not a question of whether or not you charge him 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.080 with something. You're charging him with something. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:27.560 Yeah. 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.520 I mean, I think there's a reason actually why they 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.600 had this conversation, which I will get to at the 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.960 end of the episode if you remind me. I think 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.120 there's a reason why they discussed this option of letting 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.760 him go versus charging him. But at this point we 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.800 now switch to the law half of the episode after 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.359 we finished the order half. I don't know why these 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.639 are reversed because they do the police part first, then 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.440