1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 2: It's a very organic process. You know, a lot of 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: people think songwriting is across. I wish you have an 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 2: idea and then you sit down and you write a 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 2: song or not. You know, that's not really the way 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: most songwriters that I know, I'm not just talking about me. 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: Now. 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: What happens is you sit down and you start to write, 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: and then it becomes about Sunday. 10 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, the podcast where 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: your host Buzz Night talks with musicians about their influences, 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: their humble beginnings, and their latest projects. On this episode, 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Buzz ventures to Amherst, Massachusetts to meet up with musician 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Chris Smither. Chris is an American folk blues guitarist and 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: songwriter whose iconic career has captured the hearts of audiences everywhere. 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: Chris has just released a new album, All About the Bones, 17 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: and he reflects on his incredible career, his time with 18 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: Bonnie Raid, and his legacy in the music business. Next 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk with Buzz Night. 20 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 3: Well, we're uh on North Pleasant Street in Amherst, and 21 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 3: it's so great to meet up with Chris Smither here 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: to talk. 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 4: About All about the Bones. 24 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 3: The new release tell us about this Groom Reaper you 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: were frequently talking about Chris. 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 4: Mister Bones himself. 27 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 3: Uh. 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, the grim Reaper. It's just something that you think 29 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: about a little bit more when you're closer to the 30 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: end than you are even to the middle of things. 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: You know, it's a it's funny the song came about 32 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: because I don't know because it's even a good thing 33 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: to say, But it came about with my producer, David Goodwich. 34 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: He came into my my music room and I was 35 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: having terrible time writing songs, and he said, I gotta 36 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: come up and visit. 37 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 4: And we'll work us out. 38 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: He has a a a very good effect on me, 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: so he the first day that we were working together, 40 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: he came in the room and he just picked up 41 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 2: one of my guitars and he started doing this whole 42 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: baseline little with. 43 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: The ball ball ball man, and I started. 44 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: I had another guitar and I was riffing off of that, 45 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 2: playing back and forth, and did that for two few 46 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: two three minutes. Then he said sing something, and I 47 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: opened my mouth and said, it's all about the ball. 48 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 4: He was bringing boom the ball back, and then it 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 4: sort of went from there. 50 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 2: It's just uh it's you know, it doesn't really make 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: a lot of sense to attach too much. 52 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 4: Deep meaning to it. 53 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: It's just the notion that the most solid thing about 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: is is the framework. That's the most solid thing about anything. 55 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: It's the framework, and the rest of it is sort 56 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: of soft decoration with the software and even the framework 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: done in the last forever. And it's a it's a 58 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: good idea to remember that. 59 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 3: But was that process a similar process that you've previously 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: gone through in terms of creating and breaking through maybe 61 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 3: with a little bit of a block? 62 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know I, you know I I well, 63 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: you never want to say never, but I I almost 64 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: never have any idea what songs are gonna be about 65 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: until they're practically halfway finished, you know. I. I I 66 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: don't sit down with the notion that I'm gonna write 67 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: a song about almost this. I mean, that would be 68 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: the furtherest thing from my mind. I just sit down 69 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: and I start writing. I start knocking out phrases that 70 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: move in time to some guitar riff that I've got. 71 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 4: Working, and and I s and I. 72 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: Watch what happens, you know, and eventually those things start 73 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: to suggesting to me. And of course the things that 74 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: they suggest to me are things that that are that 75 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: will be related to what I've been thinking about reading recently, 76 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: stuff like that, and they at all times, and you know, 77 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: it just goes from there. It's it's a very organic process. 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people think songwriting is is 79 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: a process. I wish you have an idea and then 80 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: you sit down and you write a song about it. 81 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: You know that that's not really the way most songwriters 82 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 2: that I know, even that I'm not just talking about 83 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: me now, I mean what happens is you sit down 84 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: and you start to write, and then it becomes about something. 85 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 4: But you write all the time, No don't. I do. 86 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 5: Not. 87 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: If I did, I'd have a lot more songs than 88 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: I do now. I write I specifically for projects I had. 89 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: I decide alright, it's been long enough, I gotta get 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: some new material I need to record. I'm gonna put 91 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: some more life into this organization. And so I consciously 92 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: sit down and write a whole double fit full of songs. 93 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 5: You know. 94 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: And what's it like though, that moment that is like electricity, 95 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: when suddenly it connects and it starts moving into the formation. 96 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 4: What's that feeling like relief. 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: Because you're never quite sure it's gonna happen. You know, 98 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: you sit I said, and have these scribblings that I 99 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: they sort of they sort of tie it together. They 100 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: make a sort of sense. But it doesn't really do 101 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: to play too much close attention to what's going on, 102 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 2: because the process itself is kind of fragile, and if 103 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: you if you analyze it too. 104 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 4: Closely, it just goes away. 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 5: You know, when you're on a roll you just wanted 106 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 5: to keep coming, and then you look at it and 107 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 5: you say, what on earth is going on here? And 108 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 5: there there does come a moment then you you were 109 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 5: sort of describing it where you it. To me, it 110 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 5: feels like somebody just opened the book and all of 111 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 5: a sudden I can read it. 112 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 4: I suddenly say, I see what it's about. And I 113 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 4: I think, oh. 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 5: Okay, that's what he's getting at. 115 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 4: He being that part of my brain that I'm not 116 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 4: really on speaking terms with, you know. 117 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: The it's so it's subconsciously working all these things out. 118 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: And then you know, and I've said this before, then 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 2: from the other side of your brain can take over 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: and start to organize it in a. 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 4: A little more coherent way. 122 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, moved that a little. 123 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 4: Sorry, kay, perfect, Okay, thanks. Yeah. 124 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: Do you evaluate your songs a year or two after 125 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 3: you've put 'em out and think differently about 'em? 126 00:06:59,720 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 4: Yeah? 127 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: Uh, I mean that's just hard to avoid. You change, you, 128 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: you change, your perception of the song is gonna change. 129 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: But that's really just an interpretation. I learned a long 130 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 2: time ago never to to dismiss anybody's interpretations of my songs. 131 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: Once they're out there, they mean whatever anybody wants them 132 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: to mean. You know, as long as you can make 133 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: a good case for it, I'll buy it. 134 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 4: You know. I've had people. 135 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: Come up to me and say, I know exactly what 136 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: that song's about, and I tell 'em. I ask them, 137 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: I say, what do you think it's about? 138 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 4: It? 139 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: And they'll tell me and it will be something that 140 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: is the furthest thing from my mind. And what I 141 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: say to them is, you're absolutely right, because they are. 142 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: You know, well, that person is no different from uh, 143 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: accepting 'em in degree from the person that you have 144 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: changed into, from the person. 145 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 4: Who wrote the song. 146 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 5: So you come at it from a different we know, 147 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 5: with any luck, Oh you've written it, You've done. 148 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 4: A nice enough piece of work. 149 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 5: On the language that it could hold up to various interpretations. 150 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 4: Well, you can actually make a case for various interpretations, 151 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 4: but sure they change. You know. 152 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: I do look at songs sometimes and say, that's a 153 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: young man's you know, I was a young man when. 154 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: I wrote that. 155 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: But you know it still holds water, and I I 156 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: usually find a way that I can make it express 157 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: something that it's still valid for me as a person. 158 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: Oh, do you think your music changed when you got 159 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: yourself on the clean and narrow straight path. 160 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, it got a lot better, got a lot better. 161 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: I just I'm not so sure it changed. 162 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: I just got better at it, you know, I it 163 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: w it was a little easier to get my thoughts together, 164 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: you know. Taking mind altering substances, whether they be you know, 165 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: drugs or alcohol anything. 166 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 4: Well, alcohol is a drug, but you know. 167 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: They can provide an illusion of insight that. 168 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 4: Doesn't often hold up in the long run. You know. 169 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: It's Uh, it used to be a subject that interested 170 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: in me greatly, and now. 171 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 4: It just kind of bores me to tell you to 172 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 4: treat that. You know, It's like it. 173 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: The question is very much like somebody saying, well, do 174 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 2: you like writing songs better? When you're sick or when 175 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: you're well well, you know, you can write songs both ways, 176 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: but it's a lot easier if you feel healthy. 177 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 3: It's how did someone who was gonna be an anthropologist 178 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: turned into a musician? 179 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 4: Nah? 180 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: Pretty easily, you know, Yeah, it's both both are uh, 181 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: dealing with people, you know, trying to fi you what 182 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: makes people take? What made people take? In a historical sense? 183 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: What cultural constants there are? I mean, you know, when 184 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: I was studying anthropology, one of the first things she 185 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: learned is if the anthropologist is in constant search for 186 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: cultural constants, things that show up in every culture, you know, 187 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: so that you can compare and say, well, this culture 188 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 2: handled that question this. 189 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 4: Way, and this would handle it that way. 190 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: But there are some things that show up no matter what, 191 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: and everybody kind of handles them the same way. 192 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: And the more I think about it, how supremely prepared 193 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 3: does that being an anthropologist or wanting to make you 194 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 3: for your craft as a musician, right. 195 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 5: Well, for my craft as a lyricist, you know, and 196 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 5: it didn't prepare me very well for the musical aspects 197 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 5: of it. You know, that was you know, more or less, uh, 198 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 5: on the fly, I didn't. 199 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 4: I I never really spent a lot of time. I didn't. 200 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 2: I never studied music. I'm all almost completely self taught, 201 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: and by year I I can I can figure out 202 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: written notation, but I'm not very good at it, not 203 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 2: enough to really. 204 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: Help me just and uh and that's uh, that's a 205 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 4: been a. 206 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: Little bit of a regret there, you know. But in 207 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: terms of the content, the lyric content of the song, 208 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 2: the emotional thrust of the songs, yeah, anthropologies probably a 209 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: pretty good foundation. 210 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: What was your first, uh concert experience that you've uh 211 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: ever experienced? I, you know, I'm I'm not sure. 212 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 4: That's a. 213 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: I've been asked this before and I had, I'm a 214 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: standard answer, but I'm not sure it's actually accurate, you know. 215 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: I I you know what I you know, what I 216 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: just really realized was when I was ten years old, 217 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: I think I was ten. On my birthday, my parents 218 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 2: s took me to the opera in New Orleans. I'd 219 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: never seen an opera and they had some spare tickets 220 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: and they said. 221 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 4: You wanna go to the opera? 222 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: I said sure, I mean cause they used to go 223 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 2: to the opera every Thursday night during the opera season, 224 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: and they would go, and and it was always kind 225 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: of mysterious to me. The baby said it was sure 226 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: was you know. They would they'd get dressed up and 227 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: they would go. I mean those days she had to 228 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: dress to go to the opera, you know, and uh, 229 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 2: in the evening clothes, you know, and they would go. 230 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 4: And so it was a mystery to me. 231 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 2: So, uh, they took me and I have a twin sister, 232 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: and it was both our birthdays, and they took us 233 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: to the opera and was Tuscar was the art and 234 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: I was fascinated. 235 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 4: I remember being fascinated. 236 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: I couldn't make much of the music, and of course 237 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: it's in a foreign language, and so it didn't make 238 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: a lot of sense to me. But I I was 239 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: just I kind of knocked out by that, the size. 240 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 4: Of the crowd. And then my father, in a whisper, 241 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 4: would point out there was a critic. 242 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 5: From the New Orleans paper, the Times fifty eight, saying, 243 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 5: see what he's doing, And I said, no, what is 244 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 5: the Black cities counting my house? 245 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 4: You know. So it was an early introduction to that. 246 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: There were other aspects to a concert, you know, than 247 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: just the music itself. There was a there was a 248 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: business associated with it. But you know, then when I 249 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: was twelve years old, I was in Nashville my uncle. 250 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 2: I had an uncle who taught at Vanderbilt and I 251 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: for some reason, and I was visiting him w and 252 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: my sister was there as well, and he took us to. 253 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: The Grand over Opta. 254 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: In the Ryman, in the old Ryman Auditorium before he'd 255 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: got refurbished. 256 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 4: Wow. 257 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: Man, that place was a fire track. No, that was 258 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: an experience. I mean, that was amazing. There were some 259 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: strange people there. As far as I was getting sented, 260 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: they were very strange people. Well, I mean people straight 261 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: out of the hills, you know, and. 262 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 4: They looked up. 263 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: I'd never seen anybody that looked like that outside of 264 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: a comic strip. And yet they were whooping and hollering 265 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: and having the best time. And the music used to 266 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: I saw they ever brings. I said, they ever b 267 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: They were just kids that they were barely three four 268 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: years older than me. Wow, you know, and now maybe 269 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 2: more than that, I guess, maybe five or six years 270 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: older than me. But there they were, you know, seventeen 271 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: eighteen years old, belting out. I can't remember what the 272 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: me they had? What was the first big hit anyway, 273 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: but they were singing it, you know, bye. 274 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 5: Bye love, Yeah, yeah, and uh. 275 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 4: I've never forgotten that. 276 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 277 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: But but I think the first concert I ever saw 278 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: that made me think that's really cool was a Julian 279 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: Bream concert on the Tulan campus. Of course, he was 280 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: a classical guitar player, but uh, he was the most 281 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: engaging person. You know, he'd he was sitting on stage 282 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: playing and then he would introduce a new piece in 283 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: his his style. His whole introduction to the piece was 284 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: folks see, it really was. But it was just incredibly engaging. 285 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: You know, you just pay you paid attention to him. 286 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: It was like some friend of yours were sitting in 287 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: the living room and. 288 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 4: He just me, it's so accessible somehow. 289 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: I think everybody I was in love with the guy, 290 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: and I think everybody in the room was. 291 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 4: They just he was just a wonderful performer. 292 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: And I thought that was the first time I remember thinking, ool, 293 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: I would like. 294 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 4: To do that. 295 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: That's something that appeals to me, not so much the 296 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: music that he was playing, but the effect that he was. 297 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: Having on people. 298 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the thing that he was generating because it 299 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: wasn't really aimed at himself at all. 300 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 4: It was aimed at a shared experience. 301 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 5: That was the objective, you know, and. 302 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 4: He made it just so enticing. Yeah, I was. 303 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: Do you remember what your first experience seeing somebody fingerpicking was? 304 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: Seeing somebody's fingerpick? 305 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: I think I was about seventeen or eighteen years old. 306 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: I knew what it was because I don't already got 307 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: it hooked on Lightning Hopkins and Mississippi John Hurt, But 308 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: I had no idea how they did. 309 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 4: What they did. I had no idea. And there was 310 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 4: a guy at two Lane. 311 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: There was a bunch of you know, like people into 312 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: folk music and you know, focus. 313 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 4: At the University of Or. 314 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: And all wearing blue chambray shirts and torn up jeans 315 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: and looking as ethnic as possible, struggling along to Bob 316 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 2: Dylan's And his name was Tony Echols, and he was 317 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: he was finger picking. 318 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: I forget what the song was, but he was finger picking. 319 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 4: And I said, how do you do that? 320 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 5: Then? 321 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: You know, he gave me a rudimentary explanation of it. 322 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: That was. 323 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 4: That was how that started. 324 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 325 00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 326 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 3: Tell Me about that trip in nineteen sixty four that 327 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 3: you took to uh, New York City and ultimately really 328 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 3: changed you greatly in terms of the impact that you 329 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 3: observed on that trip. 330 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 4: Oh that you're Oh you mean like when I was on. 331 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 2: My way to Paris, Yes, sir, yeah, oh yeah. I 332 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: was on my way to Paris from my junior year 333 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: college and I'd gotten to New York a couple of 334 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: days earlier because a friend of mine at school said, well, 335 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: you know, have you have you ever spending time in 336 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: New York? 337 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 4: And I said, you know? 338 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 5: And he says, well if you, cause we were in 339 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 5: those days she took a steamship to yoga unless she 340 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 5: was really rich, especially if you were going for a year, 341 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 5: which I was, so you had a lot of stuff. 342 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: So I got there a couple of days before the 343 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 2: ship was to sail, and uh, my friend picked me 344 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: up wherever. 345 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 4: I can't even remember how I got there. I think 346 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 4: I flew to New York, but I could have been 347 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 4: a train. 348 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I don't know why I can't remember that, 349 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: but at any rate, and he he took me up to 350 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 2: his He drove me up to his house. He lived 351 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 2: in the Yorkers. 352 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 4: And he, uh, he said, what do you wanna do? 353 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: I said, well, there's there's gone to be some some 354 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: cool music. And he this guy was not really into 355 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: this kind of music at all, but he knew that 356 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: I was. So he had bought a copy of the 357 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: Village's Voice and he was reading like who was playing down. 358 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 4: In the village in all these places? 359 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: And he came across an ad for uh, the gaslight cafe. 360 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: I said, oh, I've heard of that, and he says, 361 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: there's somebody playing there, and who's playing tonight? 362 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 4: He looked to him and says. 363 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 5: Mississippi John Hurt. You ever heard of MISSI? And I said, 364 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 5: oh my god, we gotta go, we gotta go. I 365 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 5: to me, I that was like a bolt from the I. 366 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 5: I couldn't believe in my good fortune. 367 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 4: You remember that of all the days that I was 368 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 4: picked to the area or there would be John Hurrit. 369 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: And of course by this time I was I was 370 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: better at fin I'd I'd become a pretty good pattern picker. 371 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 5: Anyway, and I'd sort of elimited, uh I would. 372 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: I had forsworn my free cord and thumb and bash 373 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: strumming and become almost exclusively a finger picker, and uh, 374 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 2: so I went down and we went down to the 375 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: gas light. And see, I've told this story so many times. 376 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: My yeah, it's it's funny. 377 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 5: It keeps changing because I keep meeting people that were 378 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 5: involved and I didn't know were there at the time, 379 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 5: and they go, oh my god, I remember that night. 380 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 5: You know. 381 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 4: It's uh, it's funny. 382 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: So I went to, uh went to the gas light, 383 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: and I'm sitting there waiting for John Hurt to come 384 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: out of my he I mean, he was enormous to me. 385 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: It's hard to explain how important he seemed to me. 386 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 2: Then then this kid comes out and imagine a shirt 387 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 2: and plays starts playing this big GILM guitar. I and 388 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't John Hurt, for he was the 389 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: wrong color. For one thing, you know, was they were 390 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 2: okay songs, you know, I I it wasn't what I 391 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: was expecting. And so I was, you know, not paying 392 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: too close attention. But I thought out how to be polite. 393 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: I had no idea who he was, or asked us. 394 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 2: Really hip looking guy at the table and he sed 395 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: to me, I said, who's that playing? And he looked 396 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: at me like, you idiot, how precute, don't you know? 397 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: I said, no, I don't know who it is. It's 398 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 2: says it's Tom Paxton. I go, you know Tom Paxton? Well, 399 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: I know from Tom Paster. So but then he finished him, 400 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: well right will. While he was playing, I saw John Hurt. 401 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 5: Come out from backstage and he came out into the 402 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 5: audience and he sat at my table right behind. 403 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 4: And right go me. I was just after me. I 404 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 4: was about to wet my past, you know. 405 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: I turned around to to say something to him, and 406 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: he shushed and he pointed it. 407 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 4: Up at the stage. 408 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 5: You know, like fifty years later, I tell this story 409 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 5: that Tom pat said, and I said, so, I just 410 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 5: wanted you to know that when I was twenty years old, 411 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 5: I was shushed in your favor by none other. 412 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 4: Than MISSISSIVII John Hurt, And he said, damn straight. I 413 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: hope he took it to heart. 414 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: So then finally John Hurt gets on stage and I'm 415 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 2: in Hamlet. He plays three songs. I'm still in him, 416 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: I'm still going. And then this other guys, some of 417 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: the young man comes up and starts sitting in with 418 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: him on harmonica. And I was so annoyed because I mean, 419 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: I was not a soatisticated listener, and I it was 420 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 2: hard for me to set I wanted to hear the 421 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 2: guitar un you know, it was hard for me to 422 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 2: keep the sounds separate. 423 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 4: And but again, I thought I'd be polite, so I 424 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 4: asked the. 425 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 5: Hipster next to me again who that was, and he 426 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 5: gave me the same. 427 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 4: Look, and he says, it's John Sebastian. 428 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 5: What do I know from John Sebastian, right, I mean, 429 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 5: I learned a lot very few years later. But and 430 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 5: so it was just not even six months ago, No, 431 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 5: maybe it was. Maybe it was six months ago. I 432 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 5: saw John Sebastian. 433 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: I was doing this show with Happy Tram and Cyndy 434 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: cash Dollar and a bunch of other people in the 435 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: wood style and us to show them that Happy d 436 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 2: Troum does every year. And uh, and I told him 437 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: that story. We were backstage, and I said, John, I 438 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: never told you by the time I saw you. And 439 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: I told him that whole story, and he grabs me 440 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 2: by the collar and he turns to everyone. 441 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 4: He says, I got a windows. 442 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 5: He says, apparently been general people for years that he 443 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 5: played the Mississippi John Hurt. 444 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 4: Nobody would believe it. 445 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: Uh, Was he as Mississippi John Hurt? Was he as 446 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 3: great as well? 447 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 4: Yeah? You know. 448 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: You have to understand I was not in a critical 449 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: state of mind. I mean I wanted him to be 450 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 2: just exactly what I wanted him to be, and he was, 451 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: you know. 452 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 4: That's the way I saw it. But he was that. 453 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 4: He was to my eye and to my ear, he was. 454 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: This a very gentle soul, but Riley witty at the 455 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: same time. I mean he he would make dirty jokes, 456 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: he wouldn't believe I mean, it was just all. 457 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 4: But at the same time, there was just something very 458 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 4: general and kind about. 459 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 5: Him, and I think he reflected in his guitar style. 460 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 4: And you couldn't hear him. You know, there's nothing. 461 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: Slashing, there's nothing angry about his playing. Ever, even when 462 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: he's telling generical stories about people being shot and with 463 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: that and the other you know, it's all done and 464 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: the sort of tones that you and I are using 465 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 2: right now. Talk teacher Love. 466 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 3: Tell me about your exposure that I think mostly occurred 467 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: while you were in Cambridge, with the whole amazing exposure 468 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 3: you had with people like you know, Lightning Hopkins and 469 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 3: Reverend Gary Davis. 470 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: That was Cambridge, right, That was yeah, although I never 471 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: saw Light Hopkins and Tom. I don't think Lighting ever 472 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: played Boston while I was there, okay, you know, and 473 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 2: I lived in. 474 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 4: Boston for quote to thirty. 475 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 5: Years, you know, I mean he wasn't alive all the time, 476 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 5: but you know, he was mostly Houston, Texas. 477 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 4: And then when he left on me would go to 478 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 4: the West coast. I did. 479 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: I never saw him on the East coast. He might 480 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: have been playing in New York. 481 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 4: And I didn't know it. But that's easy in those days. 482 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 5: You know, we didn't have the kind of communication that 483 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 5: we got, you know, so I might not have known 484 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 5: about it. 485 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: But uh no, he was a huge influence saw my 486 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 2: play and when he was the first he was the 487 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: first guy that showed me what you could do one 488 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: guy with one guitar. And uh but yeah, all all 489 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: the rest of 'em, I would I I met him 490 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: and and played with him, and I mean I'd just 491 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: sit around living rooms jamming with him. 492 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 4: They cause they didn't stay at hotels. 493 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: They stayed with people, you know, people who would put 494 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: 'em up, and particularly Dick Waterman, who you know, managed 495 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 2: and and tour managed and sh had had a great 496 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 2: deal to do with all those guys that we were 497 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: discovered during that sort of urban bruising rival and Dick 498 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: Waterer and his girlfriend was this little redheaded. 499 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 4: Gal hanging around all the time. That was Bonnie Rady. 500 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 5: She was sitting there soaking up the same sort of 501 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 5: stuff that I was from Mississippi. Friend McDowell and Son 502 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 5: Howies eleven, Gary Daddy. 503 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: Would you ask them questions about style and creation or 504 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 3: just listen? 505 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: Nope, I would let other people ask the questions and 506 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: I would listen to the answers. 507 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 4: I didn't. I didn't ask him that I never had. 508 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 5: I almost never had one on one with whatever, And 509 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 5: the only time I ever did is terrified me. 510 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 4: One time I was. 511 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 5: Spiro was his last name, and now I'm such an 512 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 5: old man, I can't. 513 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 4: Remember his and his and his first name. 514 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: Phil, Phil Spiro. Phil Spiro was instrumental in rediscovering Son Howis. 515 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 4: And Uh. 516 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: But he was into all the blues cats, you know, 517 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 2: all the overlws guys. So Skip James was recording for Vanguard. 518 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: This would have been about nineteen sixty eight something like that. Okay, 519 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: and Uh Phil calls me. He says, you wanna go 520 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: down to New York and watch uh Skip recording? 521 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,239 Speaker 4: And I said, oh sure, you know, well come on, 522 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 4: you know, we're driving down. 523 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 5: So he he had a good car, and we drove 524 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 5: down to New York and and they were, you know, 525 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 5: Skip was by himself. 526 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: Out of the studio, you know, and I was introduced 527 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: to people. 528 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 2: Maynard Solomon, who was the head of Vanguard, was there 529 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 2: and maderd says, uh, he comes out to me any 530 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: oh oh, And Dick Wall Dick Waterman was there too, 531 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: and Dick said, he introduced me to Mayard and he said, ye, 532 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: this is a this is a kid usual hear. 533 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 4: So there was a break in. 534 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: The action because, uh, I think Skip had to go 535 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: take a leap. 536 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 4: Or something, and he and I he went off to 537 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 4: the bathroom. Maynard comes out. 538 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: Into the room where we were listening, and uh, he says, 539 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: anybody here, who's the guitar player? 540 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 4: And uh, Dick points at me. 541 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 5: He says, would you go out there and tune this 542 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 5: guitar when you know he's sets out of tune. 543 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 4: Well, I didn't wanna. 544 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: Touch it, you know, but CA and Dick said, don't 545 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: go ahead, you know. 546 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 4: So I went out there. 547 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: Apparently they've been asking him to tune the guitar, and 548 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: he kept insisting it. 549 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 4: Wasn't she there uh and uh, so I went out. 550 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 2: Well, you know, he he played, uh, mostly in a 551 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 2: D minor tuning and uh when I fortunately I knew that, 552 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: and so it didn't take me back. So I went 553 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: out and I checked the tuning and it was fine. 554 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: I except that the bottom of the stream, which was 555 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: down to D the lower east string movie was a 556 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: little flat. So I just tweaked it. 557 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, but no, but that was the only thing that 558 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 5: was wrong far as I could tell. And uh and 559 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 5: Skip comes out and catches me wit his guitar and 560 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 5: he says, uh, well, how you doing. Yeah, this was 561 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 5: kind of a high false set of the voice and 562 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 5: both singing and talking. I said, oh, hello, mister James. Uh, 563 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 5: I just they sent me out here to straighten out 564 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 5: I I made up a story. I said, they they 565 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 5: sent me out here to to uh straighten up some 566 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 5: mike cables and and I just couldn't resist picking up 567 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 5: your guitar. 568 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: I hope you that's all right with you. I'm really sorry. 569 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 4: He said, Oh, don't worry. About that. He ain't gonna 570 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 4: hurt nothing, you know. I then I handed him back 571 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 4: for guitar, and I sort of ski daddled as fast 572 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 4: as I could get out of there, you know. 573 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: And then we watched him and he sat there and 574 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: got ready to play again, and he strummed the guitar 575 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: and he stopped and he listened for a second, and 576 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: he strummed. 577 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 4: It again, and then he reached up and he reflatted 578 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 4: that bottom stret That's great, right. 579 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 3: So do you remember where you were when Bonnie Ray 580 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: calls you to say that she's gonna in my bed? 581 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 4: Do love me? Like I was sleeping the phone range 582 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 4: two o'clock in the morning. Friend, we're in the studio. 583 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 4: I'm doing your song. I said, what's wrong? She says, 584 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 4: I mean like a man? 585 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: And I said, uh, oh good? Uh you want me 586 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: to ReadWrite it for you like from a woman's. 587 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 4: Point of view? I already did it, and blood did 588 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 4: she ever? Yeah, I'd say. 589 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 3: You must look at her career to this day and 590 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: it must just give you a tremendous warm feelings. 591 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: Well it's yeah, I mean, you know, she's probably the 592 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: I just get you know, I'm value our friendship enormously. 593 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: Not because she's famous or because she but just because 594 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: of the. 595 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 4: Kind of person she is. You know, she's big. 596 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: She's one of those people that's extremely extremely valuable human 597 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: being when the planet is better off because she walks here. 598 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: And uh, she would deny that, but she'd be wrong, 599 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: you know. 600 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 4: She she's a straight shooter. 601 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: I just uh, you know, it's one of those people 602 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: that you feel lucky that, you know. 603 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just I got quite a few of those people, 604 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 4: but she certainly. 605 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: One of 'em. 606 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: Who are the other people that you have influenced her 607 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 3: in a similar way? 608 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 4: You mean those people? 609 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 2: Yes, well, you know he recently died it reason passed 610 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 2: away just two years ago. Was Billy Conway on Over. 611 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: He was, you know, founding member of Morphine and a 612 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: founding member of Treat Her Right the band, and and 613 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: he was. 614 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 4: He was a prince. 615 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 5: He really was, uh adlessly curious, very kind, played this 616 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 5: music and service to other people in a sense because 617 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 5: a drummer, as a percussionist, it's very hard to play 618 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 5: music for yourself. 619 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 4: But it was a mission for him and he did 620 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 4: it so well. He was he would. 621 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 2: My sister asked once she when she first met him, 622 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: she said, tell me about Doe Conway and I I said, 623 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: They said, Dolle Conway is a prince. 624 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 4: And she said, what do you mean. I said, I 625 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 4: mean he's a prince. He's the kind of person it 626 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 4: just makes you feel good to be around him. It's Billy. 627 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: There were a lot of people who took an interest 628 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: in me. I I th and that he helped me 629 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 2: that I never really got close to, you know, but 630 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 2: in a way, they they're the ones that instilled in 631 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 2: me the sense of having of trying to you know, 632 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: pay it forward, that whole idea, and the people and 633 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: musicians had been doing that for decades, for decades, probably 634 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: hundreds of years. Yeah, helped me out when when John 635 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 2: Pyne was one, you know, and we weren't we were 636 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 2: never like tight close, but we were, you know, both 637 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: we were aware of each. 638 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 4: Other and. 639 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 5: His profile quickly became a you know, so much bigger 640 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 5: than mine. But he would take me out, you know, 641 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 5: to open shows for him, and he opened up lots 642 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 5: of doors and cities. 643 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 2: All over the place and for me because and I've 644 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 2: said this before, but uh, John Pyne audience, it was 645 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: just a Prismillered audience that hadn't. 646 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 4: Hurt me yet. 647 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 2: I mean that they were so compatible. It was exactly 648 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 2: the same kind of people. Cause people were exactly the 649 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 2: kind of people I was looking for. 650 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 3: And what was the experience like that you experienced many 651 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 3: times being able to sing on Paradise when you were 652 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 3: on the J A. John Prime bill. 653 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 4: Oh, you know, it's it's the same. 654 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 2: You know, that's not so different from from playing with 655 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 2: anybody who's got a huge audience out there that you're 656 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: happy to be in front of. It felt about the 657 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 2: same as doing the the uh the. 658 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 4: Finale song on a show like Mountain Stage. 659 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 5: You know, you got a couple of thousand people out 660 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 5: there and. 661 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 4: And you're out there. 662 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: It's sort of you know, for me, I don't often 663 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 2: get to play for that many people on my own, 664 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: and I would I would almost have to say never. 665 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 5: I think maybe the biggest crowd I've ever drawn on 666 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 5: my own, it's like a thousand people. 667 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 4: So when you're staying in front of standing in front of. 668 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 5: Two thousand, three thousand and four thousand, five thousand people, 669 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 5: sometimes it it's the associates you get to what you 670 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 5: thought it might be like when you learn about fifteen. Yeah, 671 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 5: you know, you say, this is a life man, I'm 672 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 5: a star now. God, I finally made a big time No, 673 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 5: it's great. 674 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 4: It's a great. 675 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,879 Speaker 5: Feeling, and and it's exhilarating because you know, I played. 676 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 4: By myself as a solo artist so much that to 677 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 4: have that a whole band, you know, playing. 678 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 5: Behind you and people singing in the harmony, and you 679 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 5: feel it just feels so powerful. 680 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 4: You know, it's a you know, it's a great feeling. 681 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 5: It's a kind of thing musicians get addicted to. 682 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 4: That's why they do it until they're as old as I. 683 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 3: All about the Bones, I wanna talk about some of 684 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 3: the tracks on it. First of all, who's playing horn 685 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 3: on some of the track? 686 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 4: Chris Cheeks Haunting. 687 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 5: Oh, he's he's one of the threefol maybe three best 688 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 5: saxophone players in the world. 689 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 4: He's untouchable. Study Yeah, yeah, yeah. 690 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 2: And you know what, except for one track, all those 691 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: were first takes. 692 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 4: Really yeah, wow, that's amazing. 693 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 3: My personal favorite. I mean that I've listened to about 694 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: sixty times, even though I love everything is Calm. 695 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 4: Before the Storm. 696 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 3: Tell me about the creation of that song. 697 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 4: I don't know, it's not my song. 698 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 3: That's not your song. 699 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 4: You know whose song is Eliza Gerkis. I don't know 700 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 4: how she wrote it. I'm glad she did. It's a 701 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 4: beautiful song, beautiful song. I was. 702 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I almost always do one or two covers on 703 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 2: the records then, and Goodie taught me into doing He 704 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 2: wanted me. He's been asking me to do a Tom 705 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 2: Petty song for ages, you know, and he finally had his. 706 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 4: Way, and I'm glad he did. Uh time, I was 707 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 4: a wal that came out. 708 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 2: Really, we had fun with that. Eliza Gilkeson is somebody 709 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 2: that I've you know, had a not so. 710 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 4: Secret crusher on for twenty years or more. 711 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 2: And and I just I love the way she writes. 712 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 2: I love the way she thinks and she uh And 713 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 2: also for this piece, you know, i'd i'd j come 714 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: to the realization that I never really uh worked with 715 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 2: a woman s songs before. I was always kicking these men, 716 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 2: you know, yah, partly cause I'm a guy, partly cause 717 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 2: I can be. 718 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 4: A little blind sometimes, you know. 719 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 5: And so I started, you know, I was consciously looking 720 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 5: for a team to cover by a woman and uh, 721 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 5: and she's. 722 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 4: Spraying pretty naturally to mind. Uh. 723 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 5: Then and that song just fell into place. You know, 724 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 5: I I I have a sense about what songs are 725 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 5: gonna work really. 726 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 4: Well in open DT and and that I said, Oh, 727 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 4: this is gonna work. It's gonna be really fun. So 728 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 4: I set to work on that, and then we recorded 729 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,760 Speaker 4: it and then we just went like a breeze. 730 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 2: It was t and it sounded just the way I'd 731 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 2: heard it in my hand, you know, it's and uh. 732 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 4: Then we. 733 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 5: Just a few weeks ago, I got a a a really. 734 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 2: Nice note from Eliza, effusively praising my version of O 735 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 2: her song and telling me how happy she was. She 736 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 2: said this almost brought me to tears and so forth. 737 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I got that from her that 738 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: I even realized myself, like how desperately I wanted her 739 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 2: to like it. She's she said to me, She's one 740 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 2: of these women that it's almost you know, I've said 741 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 2: this before as well. She makes me feel like a 742 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 2: boy in short pants sometimes, you know. 743 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 4: I you know, like when you were. 744 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 6: When you were young, and there's some girl and you 745 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 6: didn't want to talk to me, and you enormously attack 746 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 6: at you and you were tongue tight because you were 747 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 6: so afraid you could say the wrong thing. 748 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Uh, there's an element of that in there. 749 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 4: So I wrote her back and told her I'd. 750 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 5: How pleased that was, that she liked it, that it 751 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 5: really matter a great being to me, and uh. 752 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 4: She acknowledged that it was a It was a nice moment, 753 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 4: you know, as. 754 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 3: A you know, you start with all about the bones, 755 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 3: digging the hole, still believe in you, if not for 756 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: the devil. What I love about it is in the 757 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 3: traditional sense of somebody who grew up listening to albums, 758 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 3: that it it flows so masterfully. It's it's it's a 759 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 3: it's a flow you don't want to turn away from, 760 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: and then you want it when it ends. It's sort 761 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 3: of is this disappointment because it's like that's too quick. 762 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 5: Well, you know, you will be pleased to know that 763 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 5: that that's the way it's gonna be when the vinyl 764 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 5: comes out, if it ever comes out. 765 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 2: It's so hard to get vinyl these days. But it 766 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 2: was set up that way on purpose. Goodie. 767 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 4: My producers are very Uh, he's a stickler. 768 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 2: For album concept and what you just listed down there 769 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 2: is his side A, and we think of the second 770 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 2: five songs in side. 771 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 4: Be exactly that. 772 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 3: I don't know if people think about that creators in 773 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 3: that way anymore. 774 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 5: Well, young people, don't, you know, you get people in 775 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 5: their sixties and older they did. 776 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 3: Did you ever encounter Tom Petty? 777 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 2: Never met him, never even saw me, never saw him. 778 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 2: I always admired his work. I just uh loved his 779 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 2: songwriting sense. Loved the fact that that he wrote these, 780 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 2: you know, out of left park hits, and they were 781 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: songs that were very different from any other kind of 782 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,760 Speaker 2: pop hit, and yet they were enormous, enormous hits. Free Falling, 783 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 2: you know, you listen to free Falling, and I think 784 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,479 Speaker 2: ninety percent of the people who listened to that song, 785 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 2: all they can remember is free fall and all that 786 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 2: beautiful harmony. 787 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 4: And it's a heartbreaking song. 788 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 5: It is heartbreaking you when you if you sit down 789 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 5: and actually listen to the words, it's it's just awful, 790 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 5: you know. And yet at the same time, there's this 791 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 5: beautiful sense of freedom associated with it. 792 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 4: But are you not quite sure you really want to 793 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 4: be that free? 794 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 5: And I you know, that's that's complex, that's you know, 795 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 5: that's not the stuff of pop hits, but there it is. 796 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 3: You know, there's a new collection I just was listening 797 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 3: to on the way up to Amherst. It's called Country 798 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 3: Petty and it's people. 799 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 4: Covering his songs. 800 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 3: And there's one are you familiar with Rihanna Giddens? Yeah, 801 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 3: Rihanna Giddens and this this whole orchestra behind her. They 802 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 3: do don't come around here no more in a really 803 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 3: unique different way, like a take that sounds so cool 804 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 3: and and so Rihanna actually, but so true to Tom. 805 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 4: That's what Stevie Nixt told Joe Walsh. 806 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 5: You know, I don't come around here in the morning. 807 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 5: That's where that song came from. 808 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 4: Is that right? 809 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:02,959 Speaker 6: Yeah? 810 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 4: And what's his name? 811 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 2: I forget who it was that overheard her telling Joe 812 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 2: Walsh that don't come around. 813 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 4: Here no more and he telling that to Teddy and 814 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 4: Teddy wrote the song. That's great. 815 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 3: God, Uh, is there anybody that you'd like to cover 816 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,439 Speaker 3: that you haven't covered? And conversely, is there someone who 817 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 3: hasn't covered you that you'd like them to cover you? 818 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 4: Oh? 819 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 2: You know, I'm so uncritical of that stuff. A you know, 820 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 2: any songwriter will tell you this, or just about any songwriter. 821 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,839 Speaker 4: It is a thrill to hear anybody. Do any one 822 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:51,800 Speaker 4: of your songs, uh. 823 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 2: Because whether they do a good job or a bad job, 824 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 2: that means just this, the song. 825 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 4: Is out there on its own, making its own way 826 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 4: and world. You know. 827 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 5: If they're like your kids, you know, you like to 828 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 5: see them become self sufficient. 829 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 4: You like to see them they can actually make a limit. 830 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,839 Speaker 5: And if you're lucky, once in a while, they said 831 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 5: to check home with dad. 832 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 4: You know it's. 833 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 3: In closing Chris, is there is there's something you haven't 834 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 3: learned about yourself or your music that you'd like to learn. 835 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 4: Well, if I haven't learned it, it's hard for me 836 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 4: to put it in the name checks. I don't. I 837 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 4: don't really that would be a hard question for me 838 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 4: to figure out. You know. 839 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 2: I'm just I just hope I keep I keep learning 840 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 2: things that all the time, you know, I've developed them. 841 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,840 Speaker 4: I I I've turned into a much more tolerant person 842 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,240 Speaker 4: than I ever was then. Yet there are things that's still. 843 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 5: Driving me crazy, you know, and and that I'm extremely 844 00:45:54,520 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 5: intolerant of the kind of dishonesty and venal self survey 845 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 5: it goes on in politics. It's and and I think 846 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 5: to myself, you know, how. 847 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 2: How can people how can they listen to people like that, 848 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,280 Speaker 2: how can they square that with. 849 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 4: Any sense of decency that they've ever had in their life? 850 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 2: And then I realized that, you know, most people are 851 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 2: just trying to get along, just trying. 852 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 4: To get along, and. 853 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 5: A lot of 'em don't make a very good job 854 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 5: or something. 855 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 4: They don't mean to do harm. They just don't know, 856 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 4: you know. And I was certainly that way. 857 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 5: Once, and in some respects I probably still am, you know. 858 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 2: So like it's hard to throw stones, but I should 859 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 2: walk here sometimes. 860 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm grateful for you being on Taking a Walk 861 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 3: here in Amherst, And congratulations on the new release, and 862 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 3: thanks for all the the musical joy you continue to 863 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:03,359 Speaker 3: give us. 864 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 4: Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. I'll keep trying. 865 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 866 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 867 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 868 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 869 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.