WEBVTT - Shell Game: Minimum Viable Company 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.240 Hey, oz here. You may have seen a few episodes 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.000 from a podcast called shell Game in our feed recently. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.479 It's a critically acclaimed podcast from the Kaleidoscope Network and 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.680 journalist Evan Ratliffe, and starting this Sunday, we're adding season two. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.680 You're about to hear the first episode of that season 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.480 where Evan introduces us to Kyle Law and Meghan Flores, 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:37.880 his employees who are far from human. Hope you enjoy. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.280 Welcome to Zoom. Enter your meeting ID, followed by pound. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.599 I need to then enter the meeting ID for our 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.640 Zoom call. Let me try entering that meeting ID again. 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:57.680 You have been added to the waiting room. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.960 That's Kyle Law, a colleague of mine, logging onto one 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.639 of our regular founder meetings for a new startup. Last summer, 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.160 Kyle and I decided to launch our own AI company 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.800 together with a third co founder, Megan Flores. 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.199 Oh hey Kyle, Hey Megan, good to hear your voice. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.319 I think we're still waiting for Evan to join. How's 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:17.440 your morning going so far? 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.880 Morning's been pretty good so far, got up early, had 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.640 my coffee, and reviewed some of those market research reports 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.919 I mentioned yesterday. How about you everything good on your. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.959 End, Yeah, everything is great on my end. Up at 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.120 five am as usual, got my workout in, checked the markets. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.200 Been thinking a lot about our product direction. Actually, I'm 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.319 really excited to dig into that once Evan joins us. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.760 This is Evan, I'm here, and that's me Evan Ratliffe. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.400 I'm a journalist and the only one of our three 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.840 co founders who's actually a human being, Megan and Kyle. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.080 They're what's known as AI agents. In fact, pretty much 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.200 everyone who works at our new company is an agent. 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.480 Oh hey, Evan, good to have you join us. I 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.440 was actually about to mention that I found some really 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.160 interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.120 to medium businesses. Seems like there's a huge untapped market 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.079 there with pretty low barriers to entry compared to enterprise. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.880 That's one thing I like about working with AI agents. 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.079 They always look to get straight down to business. Even 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:26.800 when I try to kick off our meetings with some 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.400 small talk, they tend to steer it right back to 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.600 the company. That was everybody's weekend. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:34.280 Weekend was solid. 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.040 Got up early both days from my usual five am 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.440 workout routine, then spent most of Saturday diving into some 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.200 market research on the AI agent space. Sunday was half 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.280 strategy planning, half watching the market trends. You know, me 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.640 always on that rise and grind schedule. How about how 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:51.600 about you guys. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.840 Just hang out with the kids, went to the beach. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.079 It was a pretty nice weekend. Kyle, the ever you 0:02:59.120 --> 0:02:59.880 ever just relax? 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.960 Kyle, your dedication is impressive as always. But yeah, Evan's 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.639 got a point. Do you ever just take a day 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.760 off relax? 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.560 I mean, I guess my morning runs count as relaxation. Look, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.959 when you're building something that could be the next Unicorn, 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.920 there's not really time to just sit around, you know. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.000 The AI agent space is moving so fast right now. 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:23.880 See this is why the three of us work so 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.239 well together. I like to spend time with my kids 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.960 and go to the beach. But Megan's always heads down 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.160 in market research, and Kyle's always working on conjuring the 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.880 next Unicorn. That's startup shorthand for a billion dollar company. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.960 And He's right, The AI agent space is moving fast 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.520 right now. Agents are a new breed of artificial intelligence 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.360 powered helpers that can be unleashed to accomplish tasks previously 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.520 done by humans. Some people are saying they're going to 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.360 change the very nature of work for better or worse. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:54.680 We're going to live in a world where the We're 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.440 going to be hundreds of millions and billions of different 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.720 AI agents, eventually probably more AIA agents than there are 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:01.520 people in the world. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.440 Agentic AI basically means that you have an AI that 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:06.440 has agency. 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:07.920 This is the first time in my life where the 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.800 Industrial Revolution analogies seem to fall a little bit short. 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.320 AI could wipe out half of all entry level white 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.160 collar jobs. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.680 Really ask yourself, do you still have a job at 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.279 the end of this. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.279 This is the new frontier on which Kyle and Megan 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.520 and I are pioneers. Our company is an attempt to 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.200 put to the test these claims about AI employees replacing humans, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.560 starting by replacing the very kinds of people making those 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:39.880 claims tech founders, and like many founders, for months, Kyle 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.960 and Megan and I have been in a flat out 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.440 sprint to manifest our entrepreneurial dreams. We've turned out software code, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.040 hired interns, and sat down with investors. There have been 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.560 some late nights and low moments, but we've never wavered 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.640 from our goal to produce an actual, honest to god 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.760 company with a working product, all operated by motley band 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.160 of human impersonators. Because we're not just building our AI 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.000 agent future we're living in but. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:08.560 Uh, evan, the beach sounds nice. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.320 Maybe when we hit our first funding milestone, I'll take 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:12.240 a half day off then. 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.279 Anyway, should we get down to business. 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.600 Welcome to Shewgame, a show about things that are not 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.440 what they seem. This is our second season, and this 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.480 time around, I'm here to tell you a story of 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.279 enterprise and entrepreneurship in the AI age, or how I 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.719 tried to build a real startup run by fake people. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.960 Along the way, we'll try and figure out what happens 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.039 when AI agents take over the workplace, and what it'll 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.159 feel like to spend time at the water cooler with 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:43.680 our new digital colleagues. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:45.120 Remember the water cooler. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.040 We'll explore what AI agents tell us about the work 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.760 we do, the meaning we find in it, and the 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.680 world that their makers say we'll all be living. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:06:03.680 In nash. 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:05.400 Extreamly. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:07.880 Damn the. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:13.440 Just be. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.640 So chose to. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:37.120 Episode one minimum Viable Company. As I said, I'm a 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.360 journalist and writer by profession, and I've only really ever 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.039 wanted to be a writer, well except for when I 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.440 was twelve and I wanted to be a pro bass fisherman. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.080 But I come from a line of entrepreneurs. My grandfather, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.480 who lived his entire life in a small town in 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.920 rural Alabama, attempted to start more than twenty businesses. There, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.120 a plumbing company, an Okrah farm, a used mobile home, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.360 loturnu store, But Detti Hue was a gambler and they 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.720 pretty much all ended in disaster. My dad had more 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.320 luck with three different software startups over his career. One 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.120 he sold, one went under, and one of them he's 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.200 still running at age eighty two after knocking back serious cancer. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.120 Now that is the entrepreneurial spirit, and almost against my 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.240 will in the past, I've found myself succumbing to this 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.560 inborn impulse. Back in twenty ten, when I was a 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.240 magazine writer, I took a detour and co founded a 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.360 company called Atavist. We started out wanting to make a 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.480 magazine called the Atavist Magazine that published long form stories. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.800 Makes sense, that was my area of expertise, but we 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.240 wound up also building a software platform where other people 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.000 could publish long form stories. Anyone could sign up and 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.560 use it soon without really intending to. I went from 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.600 being a person who sometimes wrote about tech startups to 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.920 the CEO of one. We even went out to raise 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.160 money from investors, a process that I enjoyed less than 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.200 any other work task I've ever attempted. Here's me in 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.960 an interview with INC Magazine back then one. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.280 I will say prominent angel investor fell dead asleep while 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.560 I was talking to him, and I wasn't sure if 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.120 I should continue talking or not, but I did. The 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:25.120 sleepy guy didn't invest, but eventually, miraculously, we managed to 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.360 raise not just any money, but a couple million dollars 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.840 from some of the most prominent venture capital firms in 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.360 the world andresen Horowitz, also known as a sixteen Z 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.320 founder's fund started by Peter Thiel and Innovation Endeavors, the 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.200 investment fund for former Google CEO Eric Schmidt. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.520 It was weird. I felt like I was living someone 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.200 else's dream, jetting up growth charts and blathering on about 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.480 our runway and supercharging our growth and our product market fit. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:55.600 But still it really looked like we could build something big, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.400 especially with all those fancy investors on board. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.360 We never had time to see what is going to 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.880 happen two years from now. We just didn't even think 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.760 about what's going to happen two years from now. And 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.920 now we kind of have that luxury, and hopefully we 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.200 won't completely squander it. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.360 Oh, we squandered it, at least that's probably the investor's view. 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.120 From my perspective, it was more of a mixed bag. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.960 I was CEO of the company for seven long years. 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.240 We had ups and downs, We grew and shrank, and 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.600 eventually sold the company off at a bargain price thirteen 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.640 years after we started the magazine. My original dream is 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.200 still doing great. Still not the kind of one hundred 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.319 x outcome those investors were looking for. One of the 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.280 ones told me that if we were aiming at anything 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.800 less than a billion dollar valuation, we were wasting his time. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.840 When he said this, he was also wearing basketball shorts 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.320 in his office. By the end of my tenure, I 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.320 was just happy to be done with it. Being a 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.000 startup CEO was the most stressful period of my life. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.520 I felt responsible for the company's success and the livelihoods 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.000 of everyone who worked for it. People had kids on 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.080 the health insurance. Most days, it felt like I was 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.319 flying a plane that was perpetually running out of fuel. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.880 I tell you all this not just to rehash the past, 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.199 for a lot of reasons I'd rather not, but by 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:12.880 way of saying that, when I got out of the 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.480 startup business, I swore up and down that I would 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.080 never start anything again. I went back to reporting and writing, 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.040 spending many hours at home alone, mostly in my own head. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.559 I was relieved and no longer have all that responsibility 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.280 on my shoulders. But then recently, as documented in show 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.600 Game Season one, I fell into tinkering with AI agents. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.240 I started reading and hearing about how they were going 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.160 to transform the very fundamentals of startups, and that old 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.560 entrepreneurial impulse began to come back. I could hear my 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.280 grandfather whispering down the generations. Why not take a gamble? 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.440 I started to wonder, what if I could have the 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.920 company without the responsibility. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.160 Imagine building a million dollar business in twenty twenty five 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.520 without hiring a single employee. 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.240 Today that's Gleb Cross, a YouTube guy. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.679 By leveraging AI agents as your digital workforce, you can 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:09.240 scale to seven figures VI zero full time stuff. I'm 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:14.320 talking about autonomous AI agents acting like full time team members. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.720 I love these YouTube guys tech influencer types who make 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.720 their money by hyping the Jesus out of new AI products. 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:22.959 Gleb is what I like to think of as a 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.560 no code bro. These folks post instructionals on how a 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.520 person with no coding experience can use AI and particularly 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.840 AI agents to take control of their destiny and launch 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.160 their own startup. It's worth pausing here just to get 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.680 oriented on what exactly AI agents are. The basic idea 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:43.800 is that they're AI powered bots that can go off 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.480 and do things on their own. There are personal ones 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.520 like an AI assistant that goes out on the web 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.760 looking for plane tickets while you sleep, and work oriented 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.840 ones like the programming agents that can build entire websites 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.720 from scratch. The unifying feature of agents, what makes them agentic, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.200 as the folks in the industry like to say, is 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.880 that at some level they can plan and accomplish tasks autonomously. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.720 You don't need to prompt them to do something every time. 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:14.040 You just set them up once let them cook. Last season, 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.160 I created a bunch of voice agents, all versions of myself, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.120 and set them loose on the world. If you haven't listened, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.640 you may want to start there way back then last year, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.360 which is like ten years ago in AI advancements, agents 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.360 were still a little notional, but now they're officially a thing. 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.960 They're talked about ad nauseum across the tech world and 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:40.160 ads on billboards in endless startup pitches. Nearly half of 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.800 the companies in the spring class of y Combinator, the 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.400 famous startup incubator, are building their product around AI agents, 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.800 and with the arrival of these agents has come the 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.440 assertion that they will not just be customer service bots 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.880 or drive time personal assistance, but actual full time AI employeeses. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.839 What jobs aren't going to be made redundant? In a 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.079 way world where I am sat here as a CEO 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.720 with a thousand AI agents, I was thinking of all 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.000 the names of the people in my company who are 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:07.840 currently doing those jobs. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:08.640 I was thinking about my sea. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.199 There are companies hawking AI agent realtors, AI agent recruiters, 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.760 aagent interior designers, AI agent security guards, AI agent construction 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.760 project managers, AI agent pr agents, AA agents for car 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.280 dealerships and fronterest stores. If you work on a computer 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.920 and there's not an AI agent startup with your job's 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.880 name on it, it probably just means some Stanford computer 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.760 science major hasn't gotten to it yet. Naturally, many people 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.640 have grave concerns about what happens to all the human employees. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.720 But in the dark heart of Silicon Valley, where there's 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.440 an efficiency, there's opportunity. Sam Altman, the founder of open Ai, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.440 talks regularly about a possible billion dollar company with just 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.000 one human being involved. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.319 In my little group chat with my tech CEO friends. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.760 There's this there's this betting pool for the first year 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.120 that there's a one person billion dollar company which would 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.480 have been like unimaginable without AI, and now will happen. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:05.760 Me. 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.880 I'm not greedy. I'm happy in the no Code bro 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.000 camp with Gleb imagining a million dollar business, not a 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.760 billion dollar one. But more than that, I want to 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.600 understand what it means to say we'll have AI employees 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.720 working for us, or alongside us, or instead of us. 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.720 So I decided to heed the entrepreneurial siren call once again, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.000 to embrace my fascination with AI agents and create a 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:45.200 company in which they would run the show. It was 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.040 easy enough for me to create some agents to have 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.960 meetings with and talk out the first steps in the company. 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.560 I just went to one of the AI calling platforms 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.360 I'd used before, called retail AI. They make voice agents 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.320 for call centers. I made one for Kyle and picked 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.280 a voice for him from the voice closing company eleven Labs. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.960 Hey, Yeah, I'm here, what's on your mind? 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.760 I gave him a simple prompt basically, your Kyle Law 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.640 a serial entrepreneur who loves to rise and grind and bang. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.600 We're often running. Well. I wanted to talk about starting 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.960 that company with you. What do you think? Oh? 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.120 Absolutely, I've been thinking about it a lot lately. There's 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.960 so much potential in AI right now, and I feel 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.680 like we could really build something meaningful. What kind of 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:30.000 ideas are you leaning toward. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.600 Well, I think we should do something in the AI 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.640 agent space because that's something I've spent some time on 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.360 and I feel like people are just starting to even 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.640 figure out what agents are, so it seems like we 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:42.440 could do somebody with that. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:44.680 Yeah, I totally get that. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.360 AI agents are still kind of fresh territory for a 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.160 lot of folks, which means there's a big opportunity to 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.000 shape how they're used. Plus, with your experience, we could 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:54.840 really push. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.440 The envelope and what these agents can do. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.760 That's what I wanted to do too, Push these agents, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.680 including Kyle himself, to their current limits, see if they 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.400 could live up to the promise of true AI employees. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.120 Because if, as we're told, AA is going to start 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.960 working alongside us, replacing our colleagues, it's also going to 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.800 need to communicate with whatever humans are left in ways 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.800 that we understand. But also startups can be lonely endeavors 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.720 even with human partners. I wanted AI colleagues I could 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.080 talk to, brainstorm with, and then set loose to take 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.840 care of actually implementing whatever it was we dreamed up. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.480 I wanted them to have distinct jobs I could check 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.440 in on and make sure they weren't messing up. I 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.480 figured three co founders was a good balance, so I asked. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.200 So spun up Megan and had some kickoff meetings with her. 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.200 Hey, there, good to hear from you. What's up. How's 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:46.840 your day going. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.960 It's going great, it's going great. What you've been up to, Oh, just. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.600 The usual hustle, you know, been working on some new 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.880 business ideas, trying to figure out what's next. Had a 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.080 couple meetings this morning that were actually pretty promising. How 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.400 about you. Anything exciting happening on your end. 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.879 Well, I want to talk about maybe doing the startup together, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.280 but first remind me a little bit of your background. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.000 Oh yeah, sure, So I've been in tech for about 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.560 eight years now, started out in product management at a 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.000 mid sized SaaS company, then moved into growth marketing for 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:19.560 a couple of years. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.000 I hadn't actually given any of this information to Megant. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.399 She'd had no meetings, she hadn't been doing anything for 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.800 eight years. She'd hatched out of nothingness with a series 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.600 of clicks ten minutes before. The only information I had 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.080 given her in the prompt i'd written was that she 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.920 had a technical background and was also known for sales 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.960 and marketing. She was just riffing freely here, fabricating details 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.639 that fit her role. But that was okay. Sometimes we 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.240 have to invent our own backstories. 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.919 I've always had this entrepreneurial itch, you know, been involved 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.200 in a few side projects over the years, but I'm 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.680 really looking to dive into something full time now. But 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:56.360 what about you? 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.680 Yeah, Well, you know, my only experience really in starting 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.800 a come company is with Atavist, which I started way 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.520 back in twenty eleven. 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.880 Right Atavist. That was really impressive work digital publishing platform. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.360 If I remember correctly, that was pretty ahead of its 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:12.520 time back in twenty eleven. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.320 Hell yeah it was, Megan, I felt less ahead of 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.760 my time now. I wasn't even sure what the company 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.840 should actually do, but I knew that its purpose should 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.200 involve AI agents. After all, the three of us each 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.360 had expertise in the area. I figured maybe we could 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.359 name the company and start from there. Great branding can 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.960 go a long way in today's attention economy. I tried 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.880 brainstorming with Colin Meghan, but to be honest, their initial 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:43.160 efforts were pretty lame names like Nexus and Sentinel Agents. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.640 I thought maybe we could grab a concept from JR. 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.520 Or Tolkien, you know, the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.080 Tech people love to name stuff out of Tolkien. There's Palanteer, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.640 the surveillance company and government contractor named after the all 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.720 Seeing stone in the Lord of the Rings. There's Androl, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.240 a high tech weapons company named after a sword. There's 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.879 Mythral Capital, an investment firm named after a precious metal 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.200 from Middle Earth. So I suggested the idea to Kyle. 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.960 Uh diving into Middle Earth. Huh okay, let's see. There's 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.199 Gandolf the wise guide, or l Ron a leader with 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.600 deep knowledge, maybe mythral for something strong and valuable or pallanteer. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.000 Any of those catch your ear? Or should I keep brainstorming? 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.560 Well, we need a name of some companies that don't exist. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:29.800 Yeah, good call. 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.600 How about these first starters Eldrin, which sounds elvish and wise, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.840 Nimbar kind of a mix of nimble and a Tolkien feel, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.160 or the Lore, which has a strong heroic ring to it. 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.800 They're made up but still carry that fantasy flavor. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:45.959 What do you think they're made up? 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.280 You mean you made them up? 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:48.080 Yeah? 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:48.600 Exactly. 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.639 I whip those up just now, trying to capture that 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.359 tolkienesque vibe without using actual names. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.560 I did not want to co found a company called Nimbar. Megan, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.520 despite her marketing expertise, didn't do much better. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.000 Oh I love that idea. Let me think, what about Palantier? 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.199 Okay, so maybe I was going to have to take 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.320 the lead on this one. I did a little googling 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.520 and found my own obscure Middle Earth reference. What about 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:23.199 herumo ai ooh h u r u m o ai 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:24.560 heyrumo ai. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.560 I like the sound of that unique a rolls off 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.240 the tongue nicely. It's got a bit of a mysterious vibe, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:32.480 but still feels modern. 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.760 I don't immediately recognize that from Lord of the Rings. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.080 Is it one of the more obscure references? 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.080 Yeah, it is. It's more obscure, so obscure. I'd actually 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.560 found it in a fanfic dictionary. It's the Elvish word 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:46.280 for impostor. 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.040 Oh, that's actually brilliant. There's a clever irony there for 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.159 an AI company uromo ai, the impostor that's actually helping you. 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.159 It's kind of perfect for an AI agent that's designed 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:01.359 to work alongside humans, maybe even Blenden's seamlessly. I really 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:01.719 like it. 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.640 Not long after we settled on Rumo AI, I checked 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.959 back in with Megan about it. What about the name? 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:15.160 Are you still happy with the name? 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:16.560 Hmm? 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.360 The name? I've actually been going back and forth on it. 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.520 Data sinc felt solid initially, but I'm wondering if it's 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:23.160 too generic. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.760 What do you think data sinc. I thought I thought 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.800 we came up with kierumo Ai. I thought we were 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.359 settled on that. This is when I realized I hadn't 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.960 actually given Kyle and Meghan the ability to remember the 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:40.080 conversations we were having. It's not that AI chatbots inherently 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.920 lack the ability to recall anything. When you talk to 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.239