1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: But the hay is going on in Bardstown. I'm telling 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: you people drop white flies there. How can it still 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: be unsolved? I don't understand this. And here's another conundrum. 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Typically you find serial killers used the same mo modus operandi, 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: met of operation, but here the murderers are entirely different. 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: Is it the same person? If it's not the same person, 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: how many killers are in this small town? And how 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: is it they've never been caught? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 9 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: I'm Shan McAllister. I'm a reporter at WHS eleven in Louisville. 10 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: I want to tell you a story about a town 11 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: in Kentucky, a beautiful, close knit town where some truly 12 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: horrible things have happened. I know everybody, so it's hard 13 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: to also to think that somebody here in my town 14 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: could would do such a thing. A police officer with 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: a wife and two young sons, a teacher and her 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: teenage daughter, a thirty five year old mother, and eighteen 17 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: months later her father. Four of them murdered, one of 18 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: them missing, considered dead. All of the cases are unsolved. 19 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: It makes me fearful to even speak of it. So 20 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: that kind of gives you a little insight. We'll tell 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: you about those victims and not only how they died, 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: but how they lived, and delve into the lives turned 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: upside down by these horrific crimes, growing up here and 24 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: dealing with everything that's going on. Now it's Lloydross's towns 25 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: even standing. I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Shane McCalister, investigative reporter w h AS Louisville. Also with 28 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: me right now, Jessica Noll, investigative journalists, podcast producer with 29 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Vault Studios. They have dug in and managed to find 30 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: evidence that seemingly police didn't know anything about. Now, how 31 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: is that? Why aren't police solving this? And you know, 32 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't like bashing the cops, but I don't understand this. 33 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. He sees something in the 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: middle of the road. There are freshly cut and purposely 35 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: placed tree limbs in the middle of the exit ramp. 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: He pulls his cruiser across the ramp to block any 37 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 1: oncoming traffic, puts on his flashing lights and steps out 38 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: of his cruiser to remove the debris. But someone is 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: hiding among the lavender spring flowers just off the slanted pavement. 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: When Jason bends down to grab an armful of branches, 41 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: he's ambushed, booming twelve gage shotgun blasts ring out. He's 42 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: struck in his kevlar vest and under his arm. More 43 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: shots penetrate the darkness and the officer. He's sprayed with pellets, 44 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: striking his right upper arm, forearm, and right elbow, more 45 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: plowing to his scalp, his forehead, his temple, and his 46 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: right jaw. He doesn't have time to react or to 47 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: grab his gun from his holster. His body collapses to 48 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: the pavement and the tree limbs fall onto his legs. 49 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: Blood steeps onto the asphalt below him, leaving a trail 50 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: of red. Sorry, no apt Hello, Hello, Did you hear 51 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: the way that they juxtaposed lavender flowers against dead bodies? Okay, 52 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: that's a brain twister as well. Welcome back everybody with 53 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: me right now. Shay McCalister, investigative reporter, whs Jessica Nol 54 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: investigative journalist, podcast producer, Vault Studios, And they've got a 55 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: big surprise for everybody. They now have the investigation into 56 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: the Bardstown murderers in digital form and I am loving it. 57 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: You can see it, hear it, read it over and 58 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: over and over with behind the scenes info that didn't 59 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: make it into the podcast. And as I always say, 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: people would would comment when I try the murder case, 61 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: talk about overkill. You're overdoing it. I would bring in 62 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: every sintilla or shred of evidence for the jury because 63 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: you only get one swing at the ball, one bite 64 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: of the apple. Don't leave anything out. And now we're 65 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: finding out about behind the scenes information and evidence that 66 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: did not make it into the podcast. Jessica Noles, Shaman callister, 67 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. First to you, Shaman callister. 68 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand how so many dead people can be 69 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: going in and out of the local funeral home and 70 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: it's still not solved. How many dead bodies are we 71 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: talking about, Shay Well at this point, Nancie, we're talking 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: about five different people, and it is unbelievable, especially to 73 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 1: those who lived there, a tount of thirteen thousand. Biche. 74 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: When you say everyone knows everyone, but in this case, 75 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: everyone is familiar with every family. So every time something happens, 76 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: you know someone who knows someone who's connected. Well, it's 77 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: not hard for me to relate to that, Jessica Nol. 78 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: As you know, I grew up not in Making Georgia, 79 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: in Middle Georgia, rural Georgia. I grew up outside the 80 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: city limits in unincorporated Bibb County. We literally did know 81 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: everybody by sight and name. At the school, our public school, 82 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: doctor John H. Chart Elementary, at our church, Liberty Methodist, 83 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: we knew everybody. There weren't that many people to know 84 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: same thing in Barnstown. I don't understand, Jessica ol at 85 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: the get go, it's got to be someone, you know, 86 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: it has to be because the population is so small, Jessica, 87 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: it is very personal to the folks in both town. 88 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: I mean, and they believe that they know who's responsible 89 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: for at least some of these crimes. But you know, 90 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: we're still looking at unsolved cases. Here five dead bodies 91 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: and counting. Take a listen to shay McAlister. He frantically 92 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: grabs the officers radio on his uniform. Out of breath, 93 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: he calls over to dispatch. We we I'll come home 94 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: from still I'm working, and there was the police car 95 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: is sitting in the middle of the road with a 96 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: life on and we didn't know what it was as 97 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: a career across the road and I didn't know what 98 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: it was and I got out know what I look 99 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't deal I believe. I'm like, okay, can you tell 100 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: if he is breathing? Oh, sir, he is not breathing. 101 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,119 Speaker 1: Body's damagery and being about the setus of the officer. 102 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: Is he consciousness? I'm believe you. Then soon a flood 103 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: of blue lights light up the night sky, dancing off 104 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: of treetops and illuminating the horror. Jason's fellow officers are 105 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: about to drive up to one by one as they 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: received the call from dispatch to exit thirty four. Fond 107 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: to how a fifty five are healthful? Officer down an 108 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: officer and rude or what kind of go or where 109 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: we're going on, Authorina, We're not sure. We have officers 110 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: responding from Marktown. We had a passer bought on the 111 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: officers radio. We're not sure what's going on to Shaye 112 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: McAllister whis tell me about the Officer of the Year, 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: Jason Ellis? How was he murdered? Because this took a 114 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: lot of planning, thinking, conniving, and scheming. Officer of the 115 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: Year Jason Ellis He was a family man who was 116 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: very beloved in the community. He was a drug officer 117 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: who typically worked with his key nine partner, Figo. On 118 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: this night, though he was working alone. He had called 119 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: off for the night. He was on his way home, 120 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: driving up the Bluegrass Parkway and exiting on the X 121 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: that he used every night to get home Bloomfield Road. 122 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: As he was driving off the exit, he saw some 123 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: tree limbs placed in the roadway, and because he is 124 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: a good officer who even though he was off duty, 125 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: he decided to stop, turn on his lights and get 126 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: out to move the tree limbs. When he did, he 127 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: was ambushed. He was shot multiple times. You heard it 128 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: there from the podcast, in this graphic description of how 129 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: these bullets just tore through his body and he was 130 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: killed right there on the exit ramp alone. You know, Jessica, 131 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: that reminds me so much of the murder of my 132 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: fiance Keith. He had been at the workplace that day, 133 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: which is in a very remote area. He's work in 134 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: a construction crew during the summer. Before he finished up 135 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: yet I think one or two classes left already had 136 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: a job lined up as a geologist at Colorado. At 137 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: the work and he left the construction site to go 138 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: get sodas or drinks for everybody at lunch. And when 139 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: he came back, he was driving the company vehicle and 140 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: a guy who had been fired before Keith came on 141 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: to the job was standing there, saw the truck, went 142 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: crazy and ambushed him and shot him five times. And 143 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: I've often thought about him his last moments alone out 144 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, and I wasn't there, And 145 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: I wonder what Officer Ellis's family, how they consider this 146 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: about him, their dad, their husband dying two am out alone, 147 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: bleeding out, trying to help other people. Now, this took 148 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: a lot of thinking to do, because what the purp 149 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: did was get several freshly cut trees and kind of 150 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: block off the road. Also interesting, Shane McAllister, I mean, 151 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: can you imagine the person dragging the trees down. That 152 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: took a lot of thinking and a lot of work. 153 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: But then the murder was affected with a twelve gauge shotgun. 154 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Now that gives me a whole another take on who 155 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: did this. I can tell you right now, with a 156 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: twelve gauge it's a man. Killer is a man. The 157 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: killer is not missed. At two am, in the morning, 158 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: and the killer doesn't have a problem skulking in the 159 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: forest dragging trees down. That's what all that tells me, Shay. 160 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: So that cuts about fifty one of your population of 161 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: who's the killer right there, So we're down to about 162 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: sixty five hundred people. Yeah, there's all kinds of theories 163 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: and conspiracies about who actually killed Jason. Wait are you 164 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: calling me a conspiracy theorist? Because that's not a conspiracy 165 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: because I only think one person did that. And true 166 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: they're a nut, but not legally in same because they've 167 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: certainly outfought the Bardstown police so far. Can't you agree 168 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: with that shit? Yeah, I can't agree with that. Crime 169 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Richard Calledwell grew up visiting his 170 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: grandparents in Bardstown. Citizen journalist the Jason Ellis murderer really 171 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: slammed on the brakes for a lot of people. It 172 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: made people locally and beyond stop and really pay attention. 173 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: And I think eventsive happened since then. Just add to that. 174 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: In his blog and now with us, he shares his 175 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: thoughts on what he believes happened to the Bartstown police 176 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: officer Well. The hot Gossip at the time, was that 177 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: a local gang called the BMGs or the Big Money Gang. 178 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: They're big on drug trafficking, that they had some sort 179 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: of involvement in it. And I have cousins who consider 180 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: themselves parts of the BMG And from everything I've gathered, 181 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: I think there are a bunch of kids that watch 182 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: entirely too much television. I don't think that they would 183 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: have the brains or the resources to execute the execution 184 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: of a law enforcement officer. I mean, just considering the 185 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: planning that had to go into it, I think it's 186 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: an easy cop out to try to pin it on, 187 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, some gang banger wannabes. The angle was funny 188 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: enough that it wasn't just some random idiot with a gun, 189 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: and it probably wasn't even a hobbyist hunter. It was 190 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: someone who knew how to use a long range assault rifle. Okay, 191 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: this is not just a cop, This is not just 192 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: a police officer. This is a dad, a dad of 193 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: two little boys, two minor sons. He was a youth 194 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: baseball coach, he was a K nine handlers, all around 195 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: good guy, and he lays all that behind because of 196 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: what I believe is a serial killer to Jessica Noll, 197 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: tell me about your knew venture, your digital version. Now 198 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: what exactly does that mean? So at Bartstown podcast dot com, 199 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: we have put together a full narrative written story that 200 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: takes you through the timeline of these cases and takes 201 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: the podcast in a different way for our listeners and readers, 202 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: And it walks through step by step my Enshay's journey 203 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: through Bartown and through the our investigations into these cases, 204 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: and it takes you in each case. It actually brings 205 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: in some new voices that you don't hear on the podcast, 206 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: and you get to go through documents that we have 207 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: and photos and videos and timelines and maps. So if 208 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: you have listened to the podcast, it gives you the 209 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: opportunity to really immerse this into everything we uncovered and 210 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: go through everything for yourself and dig as deep as 211 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: you can. And for those who haven't listened to the podcast, 212 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: it's a great way to read the story, understand these folks, 213 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: and then listen to a podcast. Also, it's not just 214 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: a cop a cop leaving behind a wife and two 215 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: little children. There is a mother and a daughter. Kathy 216 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: Netherland at the prime of her life and teen daughter 217 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: Samantha Netherland also murdered in their homes in Bardstown. And 218 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: what's so odd about this is that typically serial killers 219 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: have an m O. They have a type like if 220 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: you look at many serial killer victims, they look similar. 221 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: And I was thinking of Ted Bundy, how many of 222 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: his victims. They're all white, females, generally same a, generally 223 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: generally with long, straight hair, dark hair, usually use the 224 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: same EMO, sometimes sometimes deviated. But now you've got a 225 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: mother and a daughter dead. How can that be? What 226 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: about it, Jessica Nole? You know, looking at these cases, 227 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: it's undeniably connected in the fact that they're all in 228 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: the same general area, they're all in the small Pound. 229 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: But um, you know, in talking to folks and talking 230 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: to law enforcement, there's there's not a lot of details. 231 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: First of all, for Catheine Samantha's case, given whoa whoa, 232 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: whoa whoa whoa. I know you're the investigative journalist, Jessica Noel, 233 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: there's a ton of details as far as I'm concerned. 234 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. When, who what, where when, 235 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: and we don't know why yet. But let's talk about 236 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: who they are, where they were found dead, How were 237 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: they murdered? What are the circumstances surrounding their death. Let's 238 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: start at the get go. How were they found murdered? 239 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: Jessica so Kavie Netherland was a special education teacher at 240 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: bart Elementary and she didn't shop for work. And Samantha, 241 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: a student at the high school, didn't show up for school, 242 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: and so a family member went and checked on them. 243 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: This is April twenty first, twenty fourteen, just after Easter, 244 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: and they were found inside their home. They've been shot 245 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: several times, staffs and bludgeons. They were also both of 246 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: their necks had been slat. Who and the hey murders? 247 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: A special ed teacher and her daughter listen, Forty eight 248 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: year old Kathy Netherland doesn't show up for work. She's 249 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: a special education teacher at Bartstown Elementary and the mother 250 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: of two daughters. Her teenage daughter is also absent from school. 251 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: Neither mother or daughter could be painted as you know, 252 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: doing sketchy things and hanging out with the wrong people. 253 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: The mother was very respected, very well liked by her students. 254 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: Cathy's father goes to check on her. What he discovers 255 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: is a scene of horror. I think I read in 256 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: the reports that the daughter's skull was smashed in. Maybe 257 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: there was something emotional in there that would cause a 258 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: person to be more violent, more brutal, but I think 259 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: it was sending some sort of a statement. And the 260 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: fact that they died so gruesomely, the fact that that 261 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing could happen right here in this area, 262 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: it shocked a lot of people. I hope no other 263 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: family ever has to stand outside their loves one's house 264 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: knowing that their sister and their nieces are lying dead inside, 265 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: just steps away, but completely unreachable. I'm Shay McAllister. This 266 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: is Bardstown. Not a lot of details have been given 267 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: out about the Netherlands murder case over the year, and 268 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: no one seems to know a lot. So, Shay, we're 269 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: in Bardstown and I covered the Jason Ellis case pretty 270 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: extensively back in twenty thirteen. Can you kind of catch 271 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: me up, like where things have gone and what's happened 272 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: since Jason Ellis was ambushed? Yeah, definitely, so, of course, 273 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: the Netherland family was murdered violently one year later, April 274 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Not a lot 275 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: of details have been given out about the Netherlands murder 276 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: case over the years, and no one seems to know 277 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: a lot. So Shay were in Bardstown and I covered 278 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: the Jason Ellis case pretty extensively back in twenty thirteen. 279 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: Can you kind of catch me up like where things 280 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: have gone and what's happened since Jason Ellis was ambushed? Yeah, definitely. 281 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: So of course, the Netherland family was murdered violently one 282 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: year later, April twenty fourteen. And that was a mother 283 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: and daughter, a mother and daughter. And this mother was 284 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: so well known, she was a widow, she had another daughter, 285 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: she had lost her husband years earlier, and she was 286 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: a teacher at a local school and everybody just loved her. 287 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: So that was devastating to the community. A mother and 288 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: a daughter both dead at the hand of a Bardstown killer. 289 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's he graces his crime story site. We're 290 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: being with us, we're talking about the Bardstown podcast and 291 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: now they've released the entire investigation in new digital format 292 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: with me Jessica Nol investigative journalist, Shae McAllister, investigative reporter. 293 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: Wh A s. That's a very very different modus operandi. 294 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: Pulling trees down in the interstate to block a cop 295 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: and then shoot them dead at two am, and then 296 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: going into the home of a mother and daughter and 297 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: shooting them both dead. The similarity, both gunshot victims. Another similarity, 298 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: both in the same small town. Can't be too many 299 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: miles apart to shape. McAlister Back to the death of 300 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: this mother and daughter. Tell me about the mo What 301 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: type of weapon was used? Were they shot in the 302 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: middle of the night, were they getting ready to go 303 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: to school in the morning? What happened exactly? In a nutshell? Sure? 304 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: So what we know happened was Kathy and Samantha were 305 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: at home at the end of their day and neither 306 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: one showed up to school the next day, which along 307 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: to family members. So Kathy's dad, Samantha's grandfather went to 308 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: the house to check on them and found they were 309 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: both dead inside. We know that they both had their 310 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: throats slashed. We know that Kathy had been shot and 311 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: Samantha had been bludgeoned in the head traumatically. Just hit 312 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: in the head, okay, stopped just to MoMA, stopped just 313 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: a mama. Hold on, whoa whoa, whoa whoa? So they 314 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: weren't both shot, are you telling me one was bludgeoned 315 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: in the head. Correct, Okay, that tells me a lot 316 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: about the m of a killer. Once again, this is 317 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: a male at work. If you look at risk and 318 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: a method and assessment of homicides and suicides, overwhelmingly blood 319 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: deaths are perpetrated by men, just like I doubt a female. 320 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: Go ahead, accuse me of stereotyping. I'm just telling you 321 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: what I know. I doubt a female purpose is going 322 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: to drag trees down from the forest and blockade the 323 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: interstate at two am. That's not how our minds think. 324 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: We would not go to all that effort to kill somebody. 325 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: We think of a better way. Okay, so bludgeoning. Tell 326 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: me what part of the home? In what part of 327 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: the home they were found? Did they have on their pajamas? 328 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: Was their breakfast on the table? Was their dinner on 329 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: the table? Did they still have on their clothes from 330 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: the day before? What do we know, Shay Nancy, That's 331 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: the tricky part. We don't know any of that. Police 332 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: have never released any information about what the inside of 333 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: the home looked like. We've never known exactly where their 334 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: bodies were located from police, We've never known what they 335 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: were wearing. We do know that police believe the killer 336 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: or an accomplice was in a black car that was 337 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: parked in the driveway when the killings happened, and then 338 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: that black car black and Paula took off. That is 339 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: the big clue that they have given us. The brutal 340 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: murders of a Nelson County mother and child still not solved. 341 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: At least five years have passed and not a word 342 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: from Kentucky State Police while the family still begs for help. 343 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: That's right, Kathy Netherland and her sixteen year old little girl, Samantha, 344 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: we believe, according to what we have learned, were killed 345 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: around eight p m. In the evening, not found in 346 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: their home till the next morning. Now, if you, Jessica 347 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: Nola Shaman Allister, know differently, let me know. But you 348 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: could go into a crime scene. You don't need a 349 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: medical examiner to tell you everything. You can go into 350 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: a crime scene and figure out a lot. For instance, 351 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: in the murder of doctor Teresa Severs Okay and Benita Springs, Florida, 352 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: we know she came home from the airport on a 353 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: Sunday night. We know that when she was found bludge 354 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: and dead in her kitchen floor. She still had on 355 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: her high heels, in her clothes she wore on the plane. 356 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: We know that her rollerboard was still in the garage, 357 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: so I know that she was killed immediately after she 358 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: came in from the airport. She hadn't had a bash, 359 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: she didn't have on her PJ. She hadn't even brought 360 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: her bags. That she never made it past the kitchen. 361 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: So I, as just a JD, can tell you of 362 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: the approximate time of death. In this case, the time 363 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: of death has been placed around eight PM, probably based 364 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: on them still wearing their clothes from that day. Of course, 365 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: there are medical ways to determine the time of death 366 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: based on the temperature of the body, the degree of 367 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: liver mortis, which is the settling of your blood. It 368 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: takes a period of time for blood to settle in 369 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: a body. For instance, if you're lying on your back, 370 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: all the blood will settle your arm in your back. 371 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: It takes a minute to do that. Then there is 372 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: of course rigor mortis, when your limbs begin to stiffen up. 373 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: All that takes time based on the ambiance air in 374 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: the room, and it can be calculated fearly easily. Of course, 375 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: there's the time proven method of figuring out the last 376 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: time you ate and determining how far the food had 377 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: gone through your digestive tract. There's a million ways to 378 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: determine time of death. But we believe this happened that 379 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: evening around eight pm. Question, do you, Jessica all do 380 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: we know if there was a forced entry? We do 381 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: not know if there was forced entry and cracked me. 382 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: If I'm on, say jumpin shay. So police have never 383 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: told us about any kind of forced entry. We've also 384 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: heard about different rumors about items missing from the homes 385 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: or not. The police really are tight lipped on this 386 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: case in particular, and really will not tell us anything 387 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: about what the home looked like. Take a listen to 388 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: our Friensic Crime Watch daily. Kathy Now, a single mother, 389 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: was raising her two girls while working as a special 390 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: education teacher. Holly was away at college and her little sister, 391 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: Samantha was so excited to be going to her first 392 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: high school prom. Remember her sending me pictures of dress's 393 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: going Holly, help me? Should I go blue? Should I 394 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: go pink? Should I go pobble? And she was babbling 395 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: on and on about her dress, how she couldn't went 396 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: to ear it. Kathy took Samantha shopping and she found 397 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: her prom dress. It was very beautiful blue dress. They 398 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: both were tickled that they had found what Antha wanted. 399 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,239 Speaker 1: A few days later, Holly got a scary wake up 400 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: call from her aunt. I got a call from my aunt, Stephanie, saying, hey, Holly, 401 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: don't know why you but we can't find your moment's sister. 402 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: You know, let him get a hold of them. Holly's 403 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: family drove over to Kathy's house. They slowly opened the 404 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: front door inside horror and heart rank. When I first 405 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: arrived on the scene, it was obviously still chaotic. The 406 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: scene was still being secured. We were still trying to 407 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,479 Speaker 1: figure out exactly what was going on. Kentucky State Police 408 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: had never encountered a grisly double homicide like this in Bardstown. 409 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: Shocking news reports detailed the horrific way Kathy and Samantha 410 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: were viciously murdered. Death certificates obtained by Way three News 411 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: revealed that Kathy Netherland was shot several times, her sixteen 412 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: year old daughter Samantha beaten multiple times in the head. 413 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: They were attacker all so cut there. Let me ask you, 414 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: is there any connection between these two Kathy and Samantha 415 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: Netherland and Jason Ellis the cop Shay Any connection that 416 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: we know of other than they both are from Bartstown. 417 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: No connection, And in fact, Kathy and Samantha Netherland's family 418 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: have come out in recent years saying that there is 419 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: no connection between their case and any of the other 420 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: Bardstown CASA crime stories. With Nancy, Grace Brooks runs into 421 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: Crystal's mom. I've met her mother to gas station somewhere 422 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: one of those days, her mother, Sharry. Crystal's mother, Sharry 423 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: came up here in my window and asked me if 424 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: I had seen Crystal. And when you told her what, 425 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: I haven't, Senior don't know where she is, and she 426 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: just said okay, and she thought that she thought that 427 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: the wisest thing for us to do. Well. She says, 428 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: She's going to go to the police station and then 429 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: I'll went home. Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing person's 430 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: report at the Nelson County Sheriff's office around three pm. 431 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: Two hours later, her father, Tommy, gets a call Crystal's 432 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: car has been found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes 433 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: and uncovers her keys, phone, and purse. Inside. Brooks tells 434 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: Detective Snow that he wasn't concerned until Sunday because she'd 435 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: quote done this before. Wow, you are hearing our friend 436 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: Jessica Nola shamanc allister on their Bardstown podcast. In this 437 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: small Kentucky town, people dropped like flies and steal Not 438 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: one of these cases have been resolved. I don't understand it. 439 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: What happened now to Crystal Rogers? Absolutely beautiful young mom, 440 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: and I hear a connection between Crystal Rogers and Jason 441 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: Ellis both killed along the Bluegrass Parkway. Now, let me 442 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: ask you this. Jessica Noles Shay McCallister have just come 443 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: out with a digital form of the Bardstown Podcast and 444 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: it's awesome. Jessica. Before I get into the murder of 445 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers, Jessica, tell me how do I find your 446 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: digital story. You can go to Bardstown podcast dot com 447 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: and that's where you will find everything to do with 448 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: these cases and the podcast. Say what led you to do? 449 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: A digital form of the Bardstown murders is supposed to 450 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: just the podcast. All of the credit for the digital 451 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: long form goes to Jessica, she has spent so many 452 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: hours on this and I am even fascinated by it. 453 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: There are autopsy reports, police reports, photos giving you behind 454 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: the scene looks of the podcast for moments that were 455 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: really interesting that you only got to hear, and that 456 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: you can actually see them and watch them. So we 457 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: just wanted to get everybody this opportunity to go even deeper. 458 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: And it was all Jessica. She did an awesome job. 459 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm even fascinated by it. I love 460 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: looking through it. Okay, you've got me Hootline and Sinker. 461 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: I could read autopsy reports all day long. In this 462 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: new digital form of the Bardstown Podcasts, the story of 463 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: a series of murders in quote America's most beautiful small town. 464 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: You see evidence. You get to read and pour over 465 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: evidence in each case listed there. You get to read 466 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: the documents, you get to see photos. It's just like 467 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: going into the police files. You also get to hear 468 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: Jessica and Shay explain so much. Back to Crystal Rogers, 469 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: well we know, vation tell me about the Bluegrass Parkway. 470 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: How far apart was Crystal Rogers car fan from where 471 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: Jason ellis the police officer, The father of two little 472 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: boys was murdered. How far apart jess Canal, I would 473 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: say probably between ten and fifteen miles apart in opposite directions. 474 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: When you're leaving Bardstown. Blue Rass Parkway is kind of 475 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: that main thoroughfare of Bardstown, So if you get on 476 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: it going one way, you would get to exit thirty four. 477 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: If you get on it going another way in another 478 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: direction towards Elizabethtown, you would see where Crystal Rogers car 479 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: was found. You know, I've listened to every single one 480 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: of your podcasts on this, and there's so much evidence there. 481 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: I just is the local population angry shay McAlister that 482 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: the cases have not been solved or brought to justice. Absolutely, 483 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: they are so frustrated, and quite frankly, I think some 484 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: of them are scared just knowing that there couldn't be 485 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: people out there in their community capable of doing this, 486 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: and the local police law enforcement aren't so far capable 487 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: of catching them and holding them accountable. The frustration is 488 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: very real in the Bardstown community. Jessica Noll, where's the 489 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: FBI in this? Have they big footed local police yet? 490 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: Because clearly local police aren't doing anything. I believe the 491 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: FBI is involved, at least in the case and Elis case. 492 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: They've offered a reward. We don't know the extent of 493 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: their involvement in that investigation, and whether or not they're 494 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: also involved in the other investigations that the Kentucky State 495 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: Police have taken over, such as the Tommy Bowler cave 496 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: and the Kaffee and Samantha Netherlands case. Take a listen 497 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: to this. I probably I probably woke up around you know, 498 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: in between that time, by six or seven o'clton and 499 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: I left. You know, I got did my normal thing 500 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: to you know, change my home, put my clothes on, 501 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: and and headed out, you know, shortly at that. You know, 502 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: So you get up between six and seven, and where's 503 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: Eli at? When you wake up, he's next to me. 504 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: He's in the bed with you. Okay, so you get up. 505 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: Does he get up with you? He's still he's still 506 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: sleeps on their rye whenever I get up. But I 507 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: got room and all that kind of stuff, and he's 508 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: still sleeping, sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't 509 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: there when he gets out. Yes, I noticed, I mean 510 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: I noticed that she wasn't there. I didn't know what 511 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: was I didn't know exactly what to think. I don't 512 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: know what time I called her. Yes, I called her 513 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: that morning. Brooks takes his son to the farm, but 514 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause. 515 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: You are hearing Jessica Olasha McCallister, and they're awesome Bardstown 516 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: podcasts looking for answers. It seemingly they are not getting 517 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: in the murders of five people. Listen. Broger's family is 518 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: hopeful the new detective will bring a fresh look to 519 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: the most high profile case at the Sheriff's office. With 520 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: cha comes fear of the unknown, nervous, But on this day, Tuesday, 521 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: the tides of change could be turning. I mean, I'll 522 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: be lin if I didn't say I was a nervous. 523 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: The Nelson County Sheriff's Office announced Chief Deputy Jody Gilliland 524 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: as the new lead detective tasked with solving what happened 525 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: to Crystal Rogers. I just want to experience there. I'm 526 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: assuming they think he can do the job, or he 527 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: wouldn't be put in that position. Let's talk about the 528 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: new detective. To Jessica and Ellens Shaye McAllister hasn't made 529 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 1: any difference that a new detectives brought on the case 530 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: of Crystal Rogers while we still don't have an arrest. 531 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: So I will say when we spoke to the sheriff, 532 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: he indicated that he's put together an a team to 533 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: look at Crystal's case. And the newest edition to that 534 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: was this new detective who was part of the Nelson 535 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office. But we don't have any updates of 536 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: where the case is at this point. No rest have 537 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: them made. They have named Brooke how her boyfriend at 538 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: the time, as the prime suspect, and that's still where 539 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: we are today. Then after Crystal Rogers murder, her father 540 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: Tommy Ballard dies, what happened to him? Sha McAllister. Tommy 541 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: Ballard was shot and killed on family property an early 542 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: morning right before Thanksgiving in two sixteen. He and his 543 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: grandson had gone out there to hunt. They were going 544 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: to be meeting his son and his son son his 545 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: other grandson for some early morning hunting. But soon after 546 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: Tommy Ballard and his grandson, Triton, got to the farm, 547 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: Tommy was shot and killed early on and I mean 548 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: within the first hours and days. Police said that they 549 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: were considering the possibility that this was a hunting accident, 550 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: but now in the years that have passed, police have 551 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: said that they do investigate this as a murder. They 552 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: do believe the tiny dollard was murdered. If you want 553 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: to know more as I do about the series of 554 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: unsolved murders in Bardstown, Kentucky, go to www dot Bardstown 555 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. See read Experience Shaye McAllister and Jessica 556 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: Knowles's new long form digital investigation into the murders. As 557 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: of right now, still unsolved. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing 558 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: off goodbye friends,