WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 137 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.040 A zone media. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.520 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.559 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.920 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.840 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.639 there's got to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.720 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.520 Welcome to could happen here. I'm Andre Si Jeffy channel ANDRASM. 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:33.480 So today. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.440 I wanted to really draw attention to the strategies of 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.559 resistance that have marked the stories of the African diaspora. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.199 Of course, the diasporas is widespread on diverse, and you 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.760 could find oscotad hundreds of millions in communities across the globe, 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.600 largely to see impact of the trans Saharan, Transatlantic and 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.720 Indian Ushan slave trees as well as voluntary migration. Many 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.240 millions of stories could be told, but very few of 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.960 those stories have been told so far. My focus is 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.679 really on the African diaspora in the Caribbean today and 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.000 what strategies they used in their struggle and how those 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.800 strategies could potentially be utilized today in our contemporary struggle. 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.400 So for some context, in case you know you just 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.720 arrived on Earth a couple couple of years ago, enslaved 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.399 Africans suffered truly deplorable conditions from the moment of capture, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.240 through the passage and the season in process, and to 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.399 the last of their days on the field of the plantation. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.679 Yet in spite of the deplorable conditions enslaved people endured, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.680 resistance endured. It was both inevitable and constant, as even 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.680 their enslavers recognized. Resistance, of course, began in Africa itself. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.960 Enslaved people often fled to escape local captors who were 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.400 seeking to profit from the demand for slaves. Entire villages 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.960 would sometimes relocate to fortify their settlements to avoid capture. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.800 Veellion was common among captives as they weighted to board 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:07.440 ships during the initial loading and even on the high seas. Tragically, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.840 perhaps bravely, some choose to resist by taking their own lives, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.760 either during the journey or during the brutal season in 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.800 process upon their arrival in the Caribbean on the plantation itself. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.200 Resistance took many forms, tailored to specific circumstances and opportunities, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.640 but acts of defiance were a constant throughout the history 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:28.840 of slavery in the Caribbean. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:31.200 While not all forms. 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.600 Of resistance were as overt as the famous revolutions and rebellions, 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.520 each act played a role in shaping plantation society, undermining 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.520 the institution of chattel slavery, and ultimately hastening its demise. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.440 We can classify these acts of resistance into three key categories, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:55.440 non cooperation, confrontation, and prefiguration. Non Cooperation involves the deliberate 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.640 refusal to comply with those in power, using both overt 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:04.160 and COVID methods to protest against oppressive conditions. Confrontation is 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.520 about direct and assertive engagement with oppressive forces, aiming to 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:13.160 disrupt or undermine them. And prefiguration refuses a deliberate organization 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:18.080 of future social relations, institutions, and practices in the present, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.560 envisioning and enacting a better future. It's important to note 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.760 that these categories, of course, often overlap into dynamics struggle 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:32.960 against slavery, non cooperation, confrontation, prefiguration intertwined, embodying. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.760 The seeds of revolution throughout history. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.120 In fact, Wherever people are faced depressure, these forms of 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:40.280 resistance have emerged. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.880 The era of slavery in the Caribbean was no exception. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.200 Acts of non cooperation. 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.200 Were perhaps the most common form of resistance on the plantation. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.520 Non cooperation to many forms, often subtle yet impactful. Enslaved 0:03:55.520 --> 0:04:00.880 individuals would act carelessly, feign illness or pretend ignorance. These 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:06.320 tactics slowed productivity and provided plausible explanations for accidents by 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.000 sabotage and tools machinery. They further disrupted the operations of 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.840 the plantation. Arson was another method used to strike back 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.279 against their pressors, causing significant damage to property and resources. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:20.440 Secure in extra meat through. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.080 Covid animal slaughter was a way for the enslaved to 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.160 supplement their meager rations and exit a small measure of 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.120 control over their own survival. And of course, running away 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.880 was another powerful form of non cooperation. Individuals and small 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.640 groups would escape for various reasons, to find psychological relief 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.440 from the relentless oppression, to reunite with loved ones, to 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.840 protest their harsh material conditions, or to carve out an 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.960 alternative way of life within the oppressive system. These escapes 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.720 were not just about physical freedom. They were acts of defiance. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.960 They challenged the fundations of the plantation system. Modern day 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.880 activists and workers often engage in so forms of non 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.600 cooperation to challenge capitalist structures and state authority. Just as 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.960 in slave people would intentionally slow down or damage tools 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.839 to reduce productivity, modern workers might engage in slow downs, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.840 work to rule actions, or even deliberate sabotage, which also 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.000 falls into the next category of action. These actions aim 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.440 to disrupt efficiency and profitability of capitalist enterprises, often as 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.440 a form of protest against unfair labor practices or to 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.960 demand better working conditions. Pretended ignorance was, as I mentioned, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.080 a common tactic among enslave people to avoid the harsh 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.279 demands of plantation labor. We might look at the quiet 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.360 quittin folks who do the bare minimum required for their job, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.200 refusing to go above and beyond in order to avoid 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:49.800 burnout and to resist the expectations that seek to exploit them. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.279 Running away from plantations despite these fair consequences was a 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.480 powerful form of non cooperation that of course sought to 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:01.480 reclaim autonomy in modern times, though not equal valent strikes 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.640 and walkouts silver similar purpose. Workers leave their positions to 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:11.920 protest unfair conditions, risk and financial stability to demand systemic change. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.880 In the Plantation era, acts of confrontation involved direct assaults 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.159 on the system itself. Like I said before, the plant 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.120 has lived in constant fear of revolt, and this fear 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.080 was especially heightened during the Christmas season. What seemed like 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.760 benign dances and festivities often disguised rebel oaths of secrecy. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.400 Poisoning was another faired form of confrontation, a subtle yet 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.760 deadly alternative to open rebellion. The mere threat of conspiracies 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.440 and plots, whether real or imagined, kept the colonial regime 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:48.800 perpetually on edge. Colonial legal systems were primarily designed to 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:53.400 manage colonial property, which included enslaved people. These laws were 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.720 harsh and allowed for severe punishments for any perceived transgressions. 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:04.080 Enslaved individuals could face proof consequences for unauthorized movement, large gatherings, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.800 possessions of weapons, or practicing secret rituals. Master The art 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.960 of subterfuge was thus crucial for survival. What does that 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:18.400 tell us about navigating our current legal context? While planters 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.720 tried to soy scored among the enslaved by facilitating ethnic 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.880 division by separating African born from Korean born, from dividing 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.640 domestic and field laborers as put in skilled and unskilled workers, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.960 they stay people too about manipulated plantation politics. They carefully 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.840 studied the personalities of their wide overlords, subtly provoking divisions 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:43.920 between bookkeepers, overseers, and owners. A Nanci the Spider Trickster, 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.400 a popular West African folk tale character, became a hero, 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:53.440 inspiring strategies of disguised satire, trickery, and deceit. Yet despite 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.720 their cunning, many rebellions were quashed before they could even begin, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.480 and those that did spark were often brutally suppressed. The 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.760 divisions fostered by the planter class between Creole and African 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.320 and slaved people hindered revolutionary efforts. While all revolts sought 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.200 greater power and freedom, Africans typically desired all out war 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.800 and the establishment of an African lifestyle apart from the colonies. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.320 In contrast, many Creoles the Caribbean born Africans aimed to 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.200 modify the system to gain the rights of free wage laborers. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.000 Such conflicts helped foil revolts in barbaeos in sixty, maybe 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.680 three Anti Guns seventeen thirty six, Saint quix In seventeen 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.439 fifty nine, and Jamaican in seventeen seventy six. What does 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.760 that tell us about the risk of unresolved divisions when 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.920 undertaken revolutionary action today. In the past, enslaved people used 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:48.280 secret meetings and COVID planning to organize revolts, often disguised 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.960 as social gatherings. Today activists can use in encrypto communication 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:58.000 or parties as staging grounds of political activism. Today, poisoning 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.440 maybe off the table, but its evident that property destruction, 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.199 including our sun, has persisted as a means of protest. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.560 The efficacy of that method protest is perhaps situationally dependent, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:16.240 but it certainly sends a message. Activists of today must 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.760 confront legal systems, just as since slave people in the 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.200 past needed to when descent is shaped against the statuscope. 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.280 There's a time and place for court battles and bail funds, 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.320 but they are not lasting means of resistance. We do 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.520 need to brainstorm more permanent means of liberation from this 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.880 legal system. Finally, just as a NANSI, this FIA trixter 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.840 issued as a symbol of clever resistance among the enslaved. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.080 We need stories and symbols that can just as potently 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.160 in power. There's a time when Guy Fowk's masks served 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.840 as a powerful symbol of resistance. As a creative species 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.880 are symbolic, species will always need those signals to guide 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.520 and encourage us, to give us safety in numbers, in 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.080 a sense of solidarity, even if such symbols alone are 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:05.160 not inherently liberatory. Finally, acts of prefiguration may seem less 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.280 viable under their grim conditions. But even if they could 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.960 not build the socio economic autonomy that characterizes robust modern 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:16.160 prefigurative practices, enslaved people still managed to create networks of 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.240 support and resilient cultures that offered respite in a world 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.120 that sought to strip them of their humanity. Mutual aid 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.960 was truly the name of the game in the face 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.720 of social death. They cultivated ties of real and fictive kinship. 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.120 Since biological families were often torn apart by callous slaveholders, 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.400 with mother child units being the most common familiar arrangement, 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.360 many and slaved Africans extended their concept of family beyond 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:47.760 biological kin These networks of fictive kinship provided emotional support, protection, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.480 and a sense of belonging, helping to preserve their humanity 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.800 in the midst of suffering. An example of this resilience 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.280 can be seen in the rotating savings and credit associations 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:02.319 that developed among enslaved women. Despite their marginal earnings from 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.720 market activities, they pool their resources and rotated lump sums 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.040 of money to each other in acts of mutual aid, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.959 all without their master's permission. This practice not only provided 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.240 financial support, but also reinforce the bonds. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.479 Of community and cooperation. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:23.960 Similarly, today's marginalized communities create networks of solidarity, mutual aid groups, 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.520 and community centers to support each other in the face 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:32.040 of systemic injustices such as poverty, discrimination, and violence. Such 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:37.160 communities also often redefine family to include chosen families provide 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.760 any emotional support and care outside traditional family structures, particularly 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:47.479 within LGBTQ plus communities and other marginalized groups. Today, grassroots 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:52.280 organizations and cooperatives continue the tradition of economic cooperation, impowerant 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:57.040 marginalized groups to economic solidarity, microfinance initiatives, and community based lending. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.239 It's important that we don't look at these in isolation. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.840 Confrontation alone is not enough, non cooperation alone is not enough, 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.080 and of course prefiguration alone. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:08.920 Is not enough. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.439 So let's look back at diasphoric history to those who 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:28.439 did bring those actions together, sometimes successfully maroonage the active 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.679 and slave people escaping plantations to establish independent communities, to 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.880 find the Maroon experience deep within forests and nestled in mountains. 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.600 Across the Caribbean, thousands of Maroons forged their own path 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:47.200 shape in history through resilience and defiance. As runaways, they 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:52.360 were inherently non cooperative. As warriors, they directly confronted plantation society, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.280 and as community builders they aim to prefigure a better 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:01.000 future for themselves and their descendants. Maroon societies varied widely, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.480 shaped by local geography, available resources, and their relationship with 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.280 colonial powers. They thrived in rainforests and mountainous terrains, which 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:15.280 offered natural defenses and facilitated guerrilla warfare tactics Led by 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:21.120 captains charged with defense, Maroon settlements prioritized vigilance, fortification, and 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:26.920 constant readiness. They communicated with neighboring communities, practiced evasive maneuvers, 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.960 and engaged in both defensive and offensive strategies. Prior to 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.640 the Haitian Revolution, Francois Macandial and his network of enslaved 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.120 and Maroon allies struck fear into the heart of Saintomique. 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.400 They targeted plantation owners with acts of sabotage and arson, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:49.600 challenging colonial authority with daring raids and strategic strikes. Beyond warfare, 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.800 Maroon communities were self sufficient, producing or acquiring what they 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:58.960 needed through raids, trade, or cultivation. The trader with pirates, merchants, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.920 and other Maroon settlements across islands, while hunting, fishing, and 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:08.440 farming for sustenance. Yet their precarious existence often necessitated careful 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:14.440 population management. Some communities struggled with maintaining numbers, while others 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.920 cautiously accepted new recruits, balancing growth with the risk of 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.320 attracting clonial attention. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.640 It is unfortunately not all good. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.800 In the history, though, despite Faerce resistance, some Marone communities 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.680 opted for peace treaties with colonial powers, ensuring their survival 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.320 over generations. However, these treaties often came at a high cost, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.880 seeding autonomy in exchange relative peace and limited rights under 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.200 colonial rule. The seventeen three to nine Treaty in Jamaica, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.440 for instance, imposed British control over the Maroons, restricting their 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.080 land rights and obligating them to capture and return their 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.400 fellow escaped slaves. While many Maroon communities ultimately succumbed to 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.520 colonial pressure or were unable to remain hidden, some notably 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.640 in Jamaican Surnam inture to this day, regardless of their fate, 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.880 all Maroon communities defied the clonial order, asserting the independence 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:13.600 and capability even slaved Africans to conceive and pursue freedom. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.000 What lessons can we take from their struggle? How can 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.160 we apply their strategy in our resistance today? The struggle 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.080 of the Maroons offers us some useful lessons, in my opinion, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.240 when they succeeded, it was through strong community ties and solidarity. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.400 They built networks of support and cooperation that were crucial 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.520 for survival. Today, we need to be fostering unity among 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:39.360 diverse groups facing systemic oppressure. Building alliances across different communities 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.720 strengthens our collective power and our resilience against common adversaries. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.040 Another lesson we can glean is that the Maroons adapt 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.400 to their strategies to the local terrain and resources available. Similarly, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.840 modern resistance movements can benefit from strategic adaptation to current 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.320 socio political landscapes. This includes utilizing technology for communication an 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.680 organization understand the media and digital as well as the 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.960 physical landscape, as well as adapt in tactics to fit 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.960 specific context, because not every tactic is going to make 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.760 sense in every situation, and we can't be going through 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.800 the emotions. Also, as the Maroon communities sort of establish 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:22.120 self sufficiency as much as possible in their struggle, they 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.120 cannot adequately resist if they were still fully or mostly 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.880 dependent on the beasts they were fighting. They needed to 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:32.160 be producing their own food, goods and resources. Otherwise any 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:37.680 all our confrontation would be suicidally premature. We as movements, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:43.240 need to prioritize building sustainable practices and self reliant economies 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.120 to reduce our alliance and oppressive systems. We cannot confront 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.520 these systems if we are still dependent on them. We 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.520 will not succeed. If so, the Maroons were also flexible. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.040 They shifted between defensive and offensive strategies as their circumstances demanded. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.239 Movements can benefit from maintaining that kind of flexibility in tactics. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.440 We cannot be all offensive, we cannot be all defensive. 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:11.480 We must strike a balance. Finally, though this is projection 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.040 on my part, I believe some of the Maroons would 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.199 have had long term vision despite their immediate challenges. I 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.199 believe they maintained a long term vision of freedom and 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:26.719 autonomy that sustain their resistance over generations. Contemporary movements can 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.120 benefit from a similar long term perspective, recognizing that meaningful 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:37.440 change often requires sustained effort and commitment across time. That's 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.240 all I have for today, All power to all the people. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.359 You can follow me on YouTube at androism and on 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.639 patreon dot com slash Same Truth. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:46.800 Peace. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.119 Hi everyone, it's me James and I am joined today 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.400 by Kirsty Zitlau, who is a border water drop volunteer 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.200 I've turn some water rops together, and also an immigration writer. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.639 And we're going to talk about ice transferring people in 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.560 their detention and generally the sort of post a rival 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.320 process that migrants asylum seeker specifically faced when they come 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:21.639 to the United States. Welcome to the. 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.000 Show, Thank you, thanks for having me, Thanks for being here. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.560 So I think to start out with people when I 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.560 speak to them like in my day to day life, 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.280 are very unaware of the situations that migrants face when 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.399 it comes to obtaining legal representation. Right, So maybe we 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.600 could start off by just explaining that this isn't like 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.439 if you're accused of a crime rate in theory it's 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.840 a civil proceeding, but also they'll lock you up, but 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.080 you don't get a public defender assigned to you. Right, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.000 So can you explain someone Let's say someone comes through 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.840 the hole in the fence in Kumbo, right, they get 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.359 detained at the o EDS, We give them a peanut 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.080 butter and jelly sandwich, and then they get taken out processed. 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.880 What happens after that? So from when they come to three, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.879 what said in terms of their legal representation? How does 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:04.280 it work? 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.480 Yes, so I'll address the street release folks as well 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.960 as the people who are then taken to ice the attention. Yes, yeah, 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:17.320 so I'll start with the street release folks. So they well, first, 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.359 anybody who irregularly enters the United States not at a 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.680 port of entry is subject to detention, not just by 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.960 border patrol, but by ICE. The fortunate situation, I mean, sorry, 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.280 the lining, the silver lining of this, you know, entire 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.800 awful situation is that there's so many people coming that 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.760 there's not enough detention space to detain everybody, and so 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.320 hence the street releases. So the people can then go 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.240 directly to their family. They will go with a notice 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.840 to a peer which starts their immigration court proceedings, which 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.119 was issued by Border Patrol. So immediately they have to 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.800 navigate the immigration court system, starting with the fact that 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.120 the notice to a peer might have a false date 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.720 on it as far as their court date. So that's 0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.640 the first it's the first issue. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.600 What does that mean when you say a false date, 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.080 Like if they share up on that date, the hearing 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:03.920 won't be happening. 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.440 So there's been a trend over the years to put 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.040 to be decided as a hearing date on their notice 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:11.720 to appear, which is the first document that says, hey, 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.800 you're now we can put in immigration court proceedings. We'll 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.439 send you a later notice to your address that you 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.480 gave us of when you're actually going to have that hearing, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.080 or rather the court will. So the immigration lawyer bar 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.199 pushed real hard on this issue and said, no, this 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.320 is BS. You need to put a date in time. 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.760 The reason they weren't is because they didn't want to 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.880 take the time to coordinate with the courts to make 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.679 sure that there's actually a judge on that date and 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.720 time that they assign, so to satisfy the legal requirements 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.480 that we've pushed for, they often will just put a 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.200 fake date and time, So, in other words, they haven't 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.960 done anything to verify whether there's actually a judge sitting 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.600 at some court that day or time to hear their case. 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:48.800 Yeah, they're just making it up. 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:49.879 So this is exactly so. 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.560 This is of course incredibly confusing and very dangerous because 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.399 they basically need an attorney immediately to explain this concept 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.000 to them, because they first of all won't know how 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.960 to look for when their actual court date is, which 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.080 is a link that I don't think Border Patrol ever 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.880 gives them. And then if they miss their actual court 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.120 date then they will of course be ordered deported and 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.120 the you know, then ICE is after them, and really 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.760 they have no other options at that point. So really 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.679 the need for an attorney arises immediately. And often immigrants 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.200 have been robbed, they've paid all their money to transnational 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:28.280 immigration to criminal organizations, excuse me, so, and an asylum 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.640 case is costly, so they have a right to an attorney, 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.879 as you said, but only at their own expense. So 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.600 this is a tremendous challenge off the bat, as you 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:39.240 can imagine. 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.680 Yeah, and then just to further sort of go down 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.000 that pathway, the attorney is paid for their own expense, 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:47.600 but without an attorney they may not be able to 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:48.639 obtain a work permit. 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.440 Right, So one hundred percent, I mean navigating the process 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.240 on your own is as an immigrant, it just seems 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.800 basically impossible to me. I mean, there's there's so much 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.639 that even US as attorneys struggle with that it is, 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.760 and it's evolving all the time. So even if you 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.440 managed to submit your asylum application by yourself the process 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:13.320 and then later submitting the work permit form and knowing 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.840 where to send it and how to navigate uscis that's 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:19.320 I mean, like I said, it's difficult for us. I mean, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:20.880 let's just say I got a work permit with somebody 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.320 else's photo on it the other day, so you know, 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:25.720 so it's a total mess. And to have an immigrant 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.720 and even navigate that process is it just seems impossible. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:30.160 Yeah. 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.920 Yeah, I mean I've no, I have not applied for asylum, 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.960 but when I renewed my green card that myself and 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.400 English is my first language. I have a PhD. I'm 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.960 used to paperwork, and it was both scary and complicated, 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.840 and exactly your whole future is resting on it. It's 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:46.280 extremely anxiety. 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.200 By design too. I mean it's it's they haven't updated 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:53.800 forms to become a resident since I mean, like the 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.199 thirties or something, right, asked about it exactly exactly, and 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.000 it's all just to make it a difficult as possible 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:02.600 in the wait times and everything else. 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.800 Yeah, So how about the folks who go into ICE detention? 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:06.119 There? 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.800 So these are typically people, well, I mean that's just 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.880 the thing. These days, there aren't the typical people who 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.080 go into ICE attention. It's kind of it seems to 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.320 me that certainly there's people who are mandatory detention, where 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:25.680 if they have a prior deportation order or criminal or 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.360 immigration history in this country, they will probably be detained. 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.199 But I've also noticed a lot of racial profiling in 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.000 the detention. I have a few black clients right now 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:39.080 in detention, and if they were white, I'm absolutely convinced 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.520 they are not even white but Latino, they would have 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:44.800 been released already. And one of them is a black 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:48.159 Muslim man from Kenya and he's been called a suspected 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.000 terrorist by ICE for six months or more that he's 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.440 been into detention with zero proof whatsoever, and so they'll 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:56.560 just hold them for that reason because he's a black 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.960 Muslim man. So these are often people with very meritorious cases, 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.159 like for example, this man was an opposition party leader 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:08.119 and recruiter back in Kenya. So these people just need 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.080 I mean, whether they win or not win their case 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:13.440 or not, can hinge on just being able to get representation, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.960 you know, because he's very intelligent and probably would have 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.199 been able to put together a good case on his behalf. 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:23.119 But the stats about people winning cases detained without attorneys 0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:26.000 is very very low. So yeah, so then they have 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.960 to work with a family member on the outside obviously 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.000 to get a hold of an attorney. Not a lot 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.119 of attorneys or all attorneys do detained work because it 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.879 is so difficult to start with, I mean, access to 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:42.239 your client is just so limited, and getting evidence, I mean, 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:44.760 they have to have a reliable family and support network 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:46.920 on the outside essentially to help them get evidence from 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.600 their home country. I mean, how else do you do that? 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:50.679 Detained and so it's a lot of work coordinating as 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:54.640 an attorney and so forth. So San Diego County saw 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:58.800 that need and actually started a great program. I'm not 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.560 exactly sure when it's starts arted, but apparently they weren't 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:04.080 getting enough applicants and maybe it's been around for a 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:05.800 little bit, but they didn't know about it. And it's 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.240 they set aside like five million dollars to specifically pay 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.920 attorneys to represent people detained an O time ASIE, which 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:15.800 is of course the big ice attention center in San Diego. 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.679 So that caused there to be more attorneys, you know, 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.520 or more or slightly more represented people at O time ASIE, 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.840 which was great. Yeah, because typically when I go in there, 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:29.159 you know, this is just anecdotal evidence, you'll see a 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.240 handful of attorneys, maybe a couple, maybe at most like five, 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:35.160 and then you see all the detainees the immigrants sitting there, 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.159 and there's clearly more than there are attorneys. So you know, 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.320 I read a stat by the ALU that it's like 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:42.960 something like seventy percent as of twenty twenty one did 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:45.399 not have attorneys and detention centers. 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.720 Right, so they just won't be represented throughout that process exactly, 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:51.840 and certainly like God forbid, you're a Muslim, Yeah, if 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:53.760 you're a black Muslim man, you're like at the intersection 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:55.600 of things that are going to have us sent. 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.040 Straight to jail exactly. 0:25:57.920 --> 0:26:00.560 Just to briefly explain for people who have when we 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:04.280 talk about ICE detention, what are we talking about, Like, 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:08.040 what are the conditions and who is often operating these detention. 0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:11.560 Centers excellent points. So these are for profit detention centers. 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:17.280 So it is operated by ICE in conjunction with two 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:20.359 large companies called Corcivic or Geogroup. And if you're not 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.120 familiar with these companies, google them and you will immediately 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:29.200 be horrified. Yeah, so it's a horrifying state of affairs. Essentially. 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.159 One of the biggest things in one can google this 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:35.399 right now is the wrongful death suits and payouts. So 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:40.920 literally the business model is to allow people to die 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:45.680 detained as a cost of business rather than give them 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:47.680 proper medical care or take them to the hospital and 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:49.439 so forth. And they will pay out and they do 0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:53.640 pay out millions to families. And I've seen this in action, 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.879 not that any of my clients died, but just the 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.320 the gravity to which the health situation has to be 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:03.280 in order to have a prayer of getting them out. 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:07.480 Yeah, it's it's very sad. Like I think one thing 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:11.040 that I come back to now, like four years issue 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.600 into a Biden administration is that like on one of 0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:15.600 his first decutive orders was he's going to end for 0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:19.439 profit prisons, and he never did shit about the ice detention, 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:23.280 Like right from the outset there was like, these people 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:25.280 do not have the same right to the people, and 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:26.359 we don't care about them as. 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.520 Much, exactly exactly, and at this part well and at 0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:32.199 this point too, it's like, given that he's done a 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.359 one eighty on anything that was pro immigrant or that 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:35.720 he said he was going to do at the beginning, 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:38.200 you kind of start to wonder, is he just being 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.320 paid off by the same people, by a geogroup or 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:43.720 cor civic you know they they contribute millions of dollars 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:47.360 to whoever is running for president for good reason. So 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:49.919 it makes you wonder from that aspect as well. 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:53.080 Yeah, like it certainly it was in his immigration reform 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:57.040 built right between increase the amount of ice detention facility beds, 0:27:57.440 --> 0:27:59.600 us cells or whatever, how do you want to put that. 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.400 Hopefully this advert that we're about to pivot to here 0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:05.280 is not for cour Civic Audio Group, but if it is, 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:06.080 fuck them. 0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:06.760 Amen. 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.440 All right, we are back and we're going to talk 0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:24.639 about this process advice relocating detainees. So this is something 0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:27.560 that you've actually you've done interview about recently, right A 0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:28.399 Pece written about it. 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.879 Yes, Yes, I did two interviews about it, just because 0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:35.600 it's an issue very close to my heart. For several reasons. 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:39.080 Detained work is very very difficult, and just the fact 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:42.440 that few attorneys do it. I mean more have now 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:44.920 in light of the County program. But still it's very 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:49.720 emotionally draining too. You see, you literally see the decline 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:52.600 of the person in front of your eyes, both mentally 0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:56.400 and physically, and it's just it takes a lot out 0:28:56.440 --> 0:29:00.520 of you. So these people need and deserve our presentation, 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:03.560 and like I said, are often detained unjustly and have 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:10.000 strong cases that they could actually win. So basically these 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:13.600 people deserve representation and need it the most. I mean, 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:16.400 they're basically the most marginalized out of any immigrant there is. 0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:22.440 So for ICE to suddenly start transferring mass transferring, I 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:26.320 might add, represented detainees when they never have in the 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.280 past and they haven't their own memo from twenty twelve 0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:34.520 that says they shouldn't do this except for exigent circumstances, 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:36.720 you know, like some and they describe it as some 0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:40.760 medical issue or something severe that requires it. It's just 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:45.600 it's pretty obvious that this is just direct retaliation or 0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:50.480 just designed to get attorneys out of O Tai, because 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:52.880 there's been more of them in there. And we tend 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:55.320 to make a stink and we tend to we tend 0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:58.120 to ask, hey, why haven't you given a decision on 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:01.320 my client's requests to be really east and what's going 0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:02.880 on here? And we tend to send a lot of 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:05.600 emails advocating for our clients, and we tend to be 0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:10.240 pains in the asses. And before this happened, I noticed 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:13.800 that ICE was just not responding at all, whereas I 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:17.000 had some relationship with the ICE agents that are at 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:19.640 the detention center. Just to back up, every client is 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:22.640 assigned to a deportation officer, so you technically have somebody 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:24.880 from ICE to communicate with, and they're supposed to be 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.640 in charge of the person detained, you know, whether they're 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.160 released or whether the treatment like any they're their point 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:33.280 of contact. And so even under the Trump years, you'd 0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:35.240 be able to Yeah, you might have to follow up, 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.320 but you'd be able to communicate with a couple of 0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:38.880 them or some of them would do you know. And 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:43.040 so I noticed in the past year or two that 0:30:43.080 --> 0:30:44.880 this is has just been kind of this scorched earth 0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:46.920 approach where they just won't. 0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:48.840 Get back to you or yeah. 0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:54.040 And they're also not responding to requests to have people 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:58.440 released for just months and months and months despite attorneys asking. 0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:02.880 And so it doesn't surprise me the timing of this 0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:06.040 and that they would do this now that I'm reflecting 0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:09.360 back on this, as well as the county program. There's 0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:11.880 more attorneys at O Tai Mesa now and so I 0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:14.880 mean essentially what happens is if the person is transferred, 0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:18.920 which they've all been transferred to places like I think 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:23.080 Colorado is probably the best option, but generally like Louisiana, Mississippi, 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:26.560 things like that. Texas is where my clients are currently. 0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:28.960 So these are places where you can imagine there's a 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:31.840 not a lot of quality immigration attorneys and b not 0:31:31.920 --> 0:31:35.200 a high chance of winning your case given the nature 0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:36.640 of the judges that are there. 0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:40.600 Yeah, sod migrants articulate to me that they would not 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.480 want to be in the fifth circuit exactly. Come here 0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:46.800 in the ninth circuit exactly. They're getting sent right back 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:49.000 to the fifth circuit there exactly. 0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:51.720 And that's where my clients are now. And one judge 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.920 from Otai decided, who scolded me for suggesting that this 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.880 was even by design. He told me to act more professional. 0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:00.800 He didn't say anything to the DA just attorney about 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:02.360 what his client was doing. It told me to act 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:05.800 more professional, changed venue for that client. I was talking 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.200 about the Kenyan client, and so we're now in El Paso, 0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:12.440 and thank god he has a strong case. But even then, 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:15.440 I wonder, because that's it's I mean, if it's well 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.200 known amongst migrants, you can imagine how badissy. 0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:20.960 If it's someone who knows nothing of the US. 0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:25.520 Yes, I mean, so it's just it's ludicrous that you have, 0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:29.959 you know, people pretending like judges, you know, just like 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:33.240 this had to happen when you have you know, seventy 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:37.240 percent of people you know. At least that's slightly dated, 0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:39.120 but still I don't think the percentage is that, even 0:32:39.120 --> 0:32:43.000 if it's fifty percent, why not unrepresented people? So to 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:46.000 do this, it's just a very obvious, like fuck you. 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.640 I mean, it's just there's no other way to to 0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:50.840 justify it. 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:53.680 Yeah, and like when that happens, right, so you have 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.680 this this gentleman from Kenya who's who's been transferred to 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.960 to Texas. That then you then have to travel to 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:02.840 Texas right for his hearings to talk to meet with him. 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:06.280 Yeah, so that's the whole that's the whole big battle. 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.760 And I have I have two different clients with two 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:13.800 different experiences. So so he I will either have to 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:18.880 appear via WebEx from my home. But then the judge 0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:22.080 now has two people remotely because my client's not an 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:26.160 El Paso either, he's detained an ants in Texas, which 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:31.600 is a blip about three hours away from Dallas or something. 0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:33.959 So they and this is also by design, right, they 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:35.840 put all these attention centers in the middle of nowhere 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.960 because God forbid, the public sees that people seeking asylum 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:42.640 are in prisons. So anyways, so both of us are 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.000 going to be remote if that's the case. So, I mean, 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:47.360 I think there needs to be some personal contact and 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:50.000 maybe if I can have some communication with the DHS council, 0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:52.160 I have to go to El Paso to give my 0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:55.000 clients the best chance of something, you know, otherwise we're 0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.440 both faces on this video with a with a fifth 0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:01.120 circuit judge, you know. So the other the flip side 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:02.760 of the coin was that I have another client who 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:05.080 was transferred and his trial is literally around the corner. 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:08.200 It's next week. So yeah, he was transferred four weeks 0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:13.440 before as individual hearings. So I filed something scathing, saying, judge, 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:16.480 please don't consider changing venue. This is you know, yeah, 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:18.960 he's been detained long enough. He's a twenty one year 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:19.480 old by the way. 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:20.560 I mean, so. 0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:26.760 DHS sheepishly filed something. So Counsel for ICE filed something saying, okay, 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:28.839 well we're asked, we agree to that. We just asked 0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.160 that he could appear via WebEx from ants in Texas. Also, right, 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:34.080 so now he's going to be a face on a screen. 0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:36.440 But I can be at o tie. But still, I mean, 0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:40.279 these are all significant disadvantages. I mean, judges are evaluating 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:42.960 immigrants to see whether or not in their mind they're 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.279 quote credible. That means do they think they're lying or not. 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:48.560 That's very hard to do on a video because you're 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:52.440 looking for body language. You're looking for subtle things, you know. 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:56.400 And also it's just like the human aspect of it 0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:57.280 is very important. 0:34:57.480 --> 0:34:57.680 You know. 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:00.319 It's easier to deny asylum to somebody on a that 0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:02.040 it is somebody sitting in front of you. You know, 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:04.360 there's so many there's so many small aspects, and so 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:06.920 Ice claims like, oh, well, well you just you can 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:09.879 communicate just fine, you know, you can commune. We'll offer 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.760 you calls and even video calls. And I'm like, okay, 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.160 you don't understand anything about being an attorney and what 0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:19.759 it means to to actually represent clients. At the the 0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.520 person's final court hearing, they are asked to swear to 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.399 the contents of not only their asylum application, but also 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:29.120 all evidence they filed. And so if how on earth 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:30.879 can you show them and sit with them to show 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:33.640 them the evidence in person? You know that you can 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:36.320 only do and personally. So it's just this whole concept 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:40.799 that you can that you can even adequately lawyer remotely 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:45.320 or over the phone. It's it's just it's not possible. 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.680 Yeah, and especially for people who are less you know, 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:50.680 like I spent less time on Zoom than we have 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:52.320 in the past four years. 0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:55.279 Right exactly, And a lot of these people are are 0:35:55.719 --> 0:36:00.360 are traumatized, you know, and are you like, as an attorney, 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:02.480 you need to build rapport with them, and you do 0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:05.759 that by meeting with them in person, otherwise they might 0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:09.560 not share vital information with you, you know. And and honestly, 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:11.959 the family of the twenty one year old mainly hired 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:14.440 me to be with him during his final hearing, and 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:17.160 so now I can't even do that, you know, just 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:21.120 to try to calm and you know, these people are petrified. 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:22.600 They've been through so much and now they have to 0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:25.040 talk about all of it in front of this American 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:28.759 judge and a robe from a prison. Yeah, and I 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:32.640 have to be their only ally is not even with them. 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.279 Yeah, And like there's understandably in a little country saying 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:38.360 something on the phone or on a call might be 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:41.839 a risk, right one hundred percent. You know, it takes 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:44.120 I'm not saying it's not a risk doing it in 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:47.400 this country. Like all of these things stack up against them. 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:50.960 I spend most of my time telling my clients, like, hey, 0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:53.560 what we discuss on the phone is attorney client privilege, 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:56.880 Like nobody could use this even if they try, and 0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:59.600 it doesn't calm them down, because it's just they think 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.400 they're being recorded, probably from their experiences in their home countries. 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:05.560 And frankly, I don't even know if we're being recorded. 0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:08.200 I just know that it can't be you are, it 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:11.239 can't be used, you know. I mean, so, yeah, there's 0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:15.920 so many things that go into representing somebody who's detained, 0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:18.680 and I just knows all of this full well. So 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.120 this is a very deliberate choice, and it's something we 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:24.280 haven't seen before, like ever. I mean, everybody's pretty shocked 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:24.560 by this. 0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:27.520 Yeah, when did it begin, sort, I. 0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:30.440 Want to say a couple months ago. But this mass 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:32.440 transfer they did that sparked us to talk to the 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:36.400 press and so forth was over Memorial Day weekend. So 0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:38.880 they liked to do that too. I've noticed over holiday 0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:41.680 weekends because last year they were trying to deport a 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:44.200 couple of my clients even though they had things pending, 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:47.000 and they try to do it over the weekend and 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:50.040 so on purpose, right, and so the client's families would 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:53.120 call and be like, hey, he's being printed, like processed 0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:56.440 for being deported, and so we immediately Yeah, I had 0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:58.839 to do this twice a year ago, so I had 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.040 to send two emails based documenting and ceasing the ICE 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:06.160 attorney being like hy, they have a pending XYZ case. 0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:11.680 It is unlawful to stop what you're doing immediately. But like, 0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:14.560 had we not been notified over the weekend and sent 0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:17.680 that email, they would have been deported despite having a 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.160 k So this is the type of stuff that regularly happens. 0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:22.880 But it's very ballsy to me to transfer, Like I 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:25.440 think it was probably like one hundred people or hundreds 0:38:25.520 --> 0:38:28.040 or something, you know, I mean over a Memorial Day weekend, 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:30.040 you know. And of course, oh, their memo, by the way, 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:33.520 also says they're supposed to notify the attorneys, you know. 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:36.040 I mean, I heard from frantic family members who are like, 0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:38.240 why the fuck am I getting a call from ants 0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:39.480 in Texas? 0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:40.440 Oh? 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:42.919 Oh, and this is rich. You'll appreciate this. It wasn't 0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:46.680 even one transfer. They first went to Eden, Texas, which 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:50.160 is another lovely place in Texas. And then a week 0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:54.160 later we're moved to this place called blue Bonnet because 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.120 they have to give them pretty names, right, detention facility 0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:00.279 at Antsen. Yeah, and so I had arranged a egal 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:02.399 call it the first attach a facility and then had 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:04.600 to like do it all, do this process all over again, 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:06.680 and they ask you for everything but like your DNA 0:39:06.760 --> 0:39:08.400 in order to prove that you're their attorney, you know, 0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:10.319 to get this legal call. I mean, I spent two 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:12.080 weeks just trying to figure out where my client was 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:14.840 and these are two. Imagine this is sucked up like 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:19.080 all my time since Memorial Day. I mean, there's other clients, 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:21.800 you know, I've I've been struggling to get to their cases. 0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:24.759 Like thankfully I haven't had too many deadlines, but I 0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:26.800 mean it's it's been brutal. 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:30.640 Yeah, that secks talking brutal, pointing. We have the brutal 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:33.200 obligation to transfer to ads for a second time. So 0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:34.759 we're going to do that and then we're going to 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:47.520 come back. All right, we're back. So we've heard about 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:52.000 how ice A transferring people across to different different parts 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:54.120 of the United States. What I wanted to talk about 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:58.439 now was another recent development, which was Joe Biden's executive order, 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:00.959 not the very recent one on role in place. People 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:04.800 have seen that, but it's one quote unquote closing the border. 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:10.400 Can you explain, we haven't really seen that impact on 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:13.040 the ground yet, but can you explain, these people are 0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:16.719 supposed to get essentially a document forbidding them from reentering 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:18.480 for five years. 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:23.080 Correct, And it's not just any document, Yes, it's the 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.840 worst document. So it is an expedited removal which is 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:31.160 a fancy term for a deportation order that when issued 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:35.120 by Border Patrol CBP, carries with it a five year bar, 0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:38.359 and so that means you're not admissible in any way, 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:40.960 shape or form to the United States, and if you 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:44.360 try to re enter during that time period or even 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:48.799 at any time irregularly, you will then be put in 0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:51.880 what's called withholding only proceedings, and that essentially means you 0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.880 were no longer eligible for anything, not even asylum, just 0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:57.839 a very very difficult form of asylum, which is called 0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:00.680 withholding or protection of the Convention. It's torture, which is 0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:03.360 also very difficult to win. So that those are the 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:06.080 two things you're stuck fighting. And then you are also 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:09.960 mandatory attention, so there's no possibility of you getting out 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:11.680 unless you're in your case, which is of course very 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:16.040 very difficult. So can I haven't seen this play out, 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:19.799 you know, like we're saying, it's it's relatively new, and yeah, 0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:22.919 but I can imagine based on my experience and based 0:41:22.920 --> 0:41:24.479 on what all of us know, that like, people aren't 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.239 gonna have any idea what this is, and they're gonna 0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:29.680 and plus there's desperation and other fact. I mean, they 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:31.000 just came to the dairy end. They're not gonna let 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.200 a piece of paper stop them, you know. So, I mean, 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:36.799 so these people are probably going to turn around and 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:40.239 try again and end up being in this withholding only posture, 0:41:40.280 --> 0:41:44.520 which means they're now really screwed in terms of having 0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:47.319 a way difficult time winning any sort of relief and 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:51.200 definitely detained, like they will not be released. I've had 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.279 clients on occasion like every blue moon be released, but 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.000 the way I is acting these days, I don't think 0:41:57.000 --> 0:42:00.200 it'll happen. So one of the thoughts I had is 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:06.359 is this justifying additional detention centers if we're now having 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:09.000 going to have probably more of those types of people, 0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:12.200 But its just in general, I don't see there being 0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:14.960 a shortage of people they can detain, So I think. 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.920 Yeah, no, I think they Yeah. I don't think that 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.239 we have an option in November to vote for a 0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:22.160 person who isn't going to build more prisons. 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:25.400 For refugees one hundred percent, one hundred percent, which is 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:29.719 which is why. And I think that's something very you know, 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:32.000 it can be you can take it and be like, Okay, 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:34.040 I'm so depressed, you know, blah blah, there's nobody to 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:37.840 vote for, like you know, because basically Biden has done, 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:39.520 you know, gravitated so far to the right. 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:41.120 I called all the stuff that they waved it up 0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:43.040 in twenty twenty sod Trump will do this. Biden has 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:44.399 story exactly right. 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.040 And so I don't even know that I called him 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:47.439 Trump Light, but I don't even know if he's Trump 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:49.879 light anymore. He's like more like Trump medium or almost there, 0:42:49.960 --> 0:42:50.239 you know. 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:53.560 So less racist speeches. 0:42:53.520 --> 0:42:56.400 Exactly, Trump minus the racist speeches exactly. So it's just, 0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.480 I mean, so the way to look at this is 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:03.839 that like literally we are their only hope. I mean, 0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:07.200 the government here is not only like not only gonna 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.480 not save them from anything. They're in creating all these situations, 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:15.239 putting them in more peril. So it really behooves us 0:43:15.280 --> 0:43:18.239 to find all the different grassroots organizations, and there's there's 0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:21.480 so many of them that we can help and donate 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.399 involundar teer our time too, because that's literally all these 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:25.000 people have. 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:27.560 Yeah, so let's talk about that a bit, because something 0:43:27.640 --> 0:43:30.280 both you and I do as we participate in water drops, 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.560 in in migrant aid of various kinds, welcome stations of 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:35.960 the thing we've been doing recently. You know, you and 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:39.520 I were out Now I'm just going to collapse on itself, 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:43.959 but we were out in a place near the border. 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:45.959 We were there when we met the two Mauritanian dudes. 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:49.560 You carried the Chinese exactly. Yeah, Yeah, it was so beautiful, right, Yeah, 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:51.920 it was such a wonderful Like obviously it's pretty bleak 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:53.440 that the guys aren't able to use one of his 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:56.120 legs properly, and yeah, therefore two people who don't share 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.000 a single word with him had to carry him. These 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:01.759 two Mauritanian men met. I'll just rewind to tell the 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.440 whole story. Yeah, we were driving down the road and 0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:07.560 we kept meeting groups of Mauritanian refugees coming north, and 0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:09.799 we were able to help them by giving them water 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:11.280 in quick interruption. 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:13.879 By the way, I looked up Mauritanian and unsurprisingly, they 0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:19.640 have female general mulation, child labor and basically any like 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:21.719 it's just horrific capital punishments. 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:27.760 Yeah, gay people, right exactly. So these people, very very nice, 0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.279 just wanted mostly a bottle of water, and you know 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:33.480 how far tw weekend surrounded to border Cotrol, which is 0:44:33.520 --> 0:44:36.200 what they intend to do. And they kept saying that 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.040 there's a guy with a broken leg, and we were like, 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:40.719 oh shit, like, but that's potentially fatal in this place 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:42.960 that we're at. They just keep saying, go down the road, 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:44.200 you'll see him. So we keep going down the road 0:44:44.200 --> 0:44:47.000 and we come around the corner and there's two guys 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:49.000 sort of eat and then a third guy in the 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:52.040 middle of them with his hands over both their shoulders, right, 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:54.440 and they're sort of humping him down the road. And 0:44:54.480 --> 0:44:58.440 it turns out this Chinese man only speaking Mandarin, he 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.960 had like a brace, like an external fixation on his leg, 0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:05.920 like like bolts through his leg and couldn't walk. And 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:07.799 these dudes have been carrying him for two days and 0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:11.280 they couldn't she speak the same language like they didn't. 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.480 They weren't able to communicate, and it was the most 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:17.000 humane thing, and it made me just so ashamed that 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:20.560 like these people, in a time of desperation for themselves, 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:23.239 have taken the risk to help other people, and then 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:26.880 here's our government just being like, screw you. If you 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:28.840 don't belong here, we're going to put you straight in prison. 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.799 Or especially these these are mostly Muslim African men from 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:35.600 Mauritania right there. They're generally sort of that that will 0:45:35.640 --> 0:45:39.960 be one of the more persecuted demographics. And perhaps you 0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:42.960 can talk about like how you got into participating in 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.360 water drops and how other people could do so, or 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:48.760 any any form of a direct mutual aid I supposed 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:50.200 to says like advocacy. 0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:54.279 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean I think I think the 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:58.560 main thing to take away is that it's easier to 0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:04.120 help or participate then one would think. You know, I 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:07.000 think you look at this issue of immigration and it's 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:11.440 so overwhelming right now, and it can be a bit like, 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:13.680 oh god, you know, what can I possibly do? Or 0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:16.120 you know, and even if i'm you know, what difference 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:16.800 am I making? 0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:17.200 You know? 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:20.760 And it's just like I have the same struggles working 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:23.799 as you know, an immigration attorney, because you're just like God, 0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:27.839 you see just the vast need and you know, you 0:46:27.880 --> 0:46:29.640 focus on the person in front of you, you know, 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:32.040 And not to sound cheesy, but that's the life you 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:36.000 can affect and so we're and all of us collectively 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:39.319 have an impact more than we know, you know. So 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:40.880 I think that's just the first thing to share. So 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:46.359 don't don't feel defeated and think that. Remember that if 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:49.120 you have twenty extra bucks a month to spare, for example, 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:55.040 like if you donate that to supplies for migrants, then 0:46:55.520 --> 0:46:59.040 that literally allows the work of water dropping to continue. 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:02.400 And you know, that's the other side of the coin. 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:04.239 If we can go out all we want, but if 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:07.720 we don't have money or supplies to drop, then nothing 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:10.200 gets done, you know. So if you live in any 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:13.000 part of the country, really you can find a reputable organization, 0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:16.200 you know, or BRC is a collective. I volunteer with 0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:21.239 Borderlands Relief Collective and every cent goes directly to the 0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:25.440 supplies that we drop, and that's a very it's huge 0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:29.240 tangible source of help. All of our supplies are consumed, 0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:31.439 as you know, within a week or so, we think, 0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:35.640 you know. So it's just there's so many different ways 0:47:35.719 --> 0:47:40.359 to to participate. There's organizations that allow you to talk 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:44.120 to detained immigrants, you know, like Freedom for Immigrants or 0:47:44.120 --> 0:47:46.040 you know, there's different ways you can help. If you 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:49.239 want to communicate with them. There's also detention Resistance, who 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.239 works with the people mainly in No Taimesa to help 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:57.799 just provide even a source of support, just someone a 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.160 human being to talk to, who can help them with 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:02.560 little things like writing letters or putting money in their 0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:06.520 account to be able to contact family members. I say 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:08.960 little things, but those things are huge because if you 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.759 can imagine being an immigrant in another country and you 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:15.520 know somebody in that and you're in a prison, but 0:48:15.600 --> 0:48:17.879 somebody in that country or a few people are are 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.120 showing you love. I think at the end of the day, 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:24.759 whether you're officially deported or when asylum or whatever, those 0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:27.840 are the things that stick with people because I know 0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:29.960 that they're going to remember that probably for the rest 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:30.520 of their lives. 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:32.480 Yeah, And I think it's the least we can do 0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:36.040 to be welcoming with exactly exactly. 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:37.680 That's why the welcome stations that we do are so 0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:39.520 beautiful too, right, because it's just I mean, what we 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:41.720 were doing that day when we met those two people 0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:44.440 or the three people rather, and it's just like they 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:49.040 get they get a help a loving, helpful person as 0:48:49.080 --> 0:48:52.239 their first exposure to the United States, and then you know, 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:54.359 I said, instead of border patrol, which makes them take 0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:56.239 off their shoelaces and treats them like you know. 0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:01.360 Criminals, exactly exactly, and it's nice. I I've exchanged for 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:02.960 numbers of those people and they're like, oh, you're the 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:05.439 first American I met. You'll always be like my first 0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:07.440 American friend. Someone'sta the other day and I thought that 0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:08.080 was really sweet. 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.719 It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. I think 0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:12.799 about that all the time with my clients. You know, 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.640 I'm just like God, I feel so fortunate to meet 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:17.880 all these people, you know, from different countries. It's just 0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:20.480 and I'm embarrassed to say that I have to usually 0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:22.320 google where the country is, you know. 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:23.560 I mean, it's awful. 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:26.359 I don't know what our geography education was, but let's 0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:28.239 just say I didn't get much of it. But you know, 0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:30.080 just where am I going to meet people from Belize, 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:33.960 from Kenya, from Trinidad, from Chad, you know, and be 0:49:34.000 --> 0:49:36.240 able to really share life with them to a certain 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:39.320 extent or you know, I know their most vulnerable and 0:49:39.360 --> 0:49:41.680 awful experiences. I know their family, you know, or about 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.560 their families and about them, and it's a really beautiful thing. 0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:49.080 So it's just, you know, unfortunate. So to have to 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:52.120 interact with them and in a prison is just you know, 0:49:52.200 --> 0:49:55.759 it's just it's just ridiculous, you know. But so that's 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.279 why those welcome tables are I think so just pure 0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:01.640 and precious because at that moment there's no bullshit involved yet, 0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:04.680 there's no US government. It's just humans interacting with humans. 0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.479 Yeah, it totally is really nice. It's one of the 0:50:07.480 --> 0:50:10.160 better things that I like to do. And yeah, if 0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:11.320 you if a replace where you can do it, you 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.279 should do it. If you're not, it would be great 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:15.000 if you get in your money. I am going to 0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:18.280 read as we finish up a plug for the sidewalk 0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:21.759 school Matamoros and they NOSA. I just want to like 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:24.080 they are in desperate need the money right now. They 0:50:24.120 --> 0:50:27.160 do amazing work with people on both sides of the border. 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:29.680 I've been on a panel with Felicia for UCLA that 0:50:30.320 --> 0:50:32.120 you can find if you're good at googling things. It's 0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:36.360 on YouTube. It's the Allied Community Arts Brigade. UCLA hosted 0:50:36.640 --> 0:50:38.480 the panel, so if you if you search that and 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:40.520 border panel, I'm sure you'll find it. And if you 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:42.480 want to know more about the Sidewalk School. I recommend it, 0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:46.000 and we're joined there by people from Border Kindness and Alotlado, 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:48.399 which are both excellent organizations working on the border here. 0:50:49.160 --> 0:50:52.360 But the Sidewalk School are working with refugees and assigum 0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:54.480 seekers on both sides of the border in Matamoros and 0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:57.560 by Alsa so in Texas area, and they definately need 0:50:57.560 --> 0:50:59.640 your money. If you would like to support them, you 0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:05.800 can go to gofund dot me slash zero six CDOC 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:08.560 seventy six and we'll include that in the notes of 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:11.239 this podcast as well. Kasin, thank you so much for 0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:12.759 your time. We really appreciate it. 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:25.200 Thank you, James. 0:51:28.400 --> 0:51:30.040 Welcome to take it up and to here a show 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:32.520 that today is very urgently about things falling apart in 0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:35.040 Kenya and how to put them back together again. I'm 0:51:35.080 --> 0:51:38.400 your host, Miya Long. What you're about to hear is 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:41.600 an interview about the Kenyan protest that was recorded on Sunday, 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:44.560 July twenty third. At time of recording, it is now 0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:46.759 Tuesday the twenty fifth, and in that two day span, 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:51.200 the situation and Kenya has gotten significantly worse. Kenyan police 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:54.439 are firing live ammo into crowds of protesters. They've killed 0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:57.080 at least five people today. That numbers expected to rise 0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:00.680 as more protesters die in hospitals. The government has deployed 0:52:00.680 --> 0:52:02.520 the army and shut down much of the internet in 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.840 an attempt to stop news from getting out. On Kenyan TV, 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.840 political leaders called the protesters criminals and a threat to 0:52:08.920 --> 0:52:13.760 national security. Meanwhile, protesters made good on their slogan occupied 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:16.919 Parliament by storming and then partially burning down the parliament building. 0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:20.359 As politicians continue to meet their demands with bullets. What 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:24.360 we've seen today is terrifying cops shooting live AMMO into churches, 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.920 cops opening fire on people waiting for medical care. Meanwhile, 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:30.879 to the fury of the protesters, Kenyan troops arrived today 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:33.480 in Haiti to begin the US backed occupation of the country. 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:37.680 We spent this interview largely discussing the local Kenyan political leads, 0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.520 but this is also an international crisis. Much of the 0:52:40.520 --> 0:52:43.359 impetus for the brutal tax increases on basic goods came 0:52:43.400 --> 0:52:46.880 from an international monetary FUM bailout deal that required Kenya 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:49.360 to increase its taxes to twenty five percent of the 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:54.400 country's GDP. Thus Kenyans are being robbed twice, once by 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:56.640 the Kenyan political masters of the cops shooting them in 0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.400 the streets, and again by the IMF and their neolibal 0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:03.600 wealth extraction program. As the struggle continues. Let us now 0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:06.040 turn to our interview into a more optimistic time and 0:53:06.160 --> 0:53:08.600 movement to get a real understanding of what the protests 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:14.080 are about. Welcome to it could happen here a podcast 0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:17.480 where the here is currently Kenya. Yeah, I'm your host 0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:20.719 Miya Wong, and we're we're going to talk about a 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.239 bunch of protests and a bunch of very very very 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.520 interesting sort of political developments at Kenya that I think 0:53:25.560 --> 0:53:30.920 have gotten very distressingly little coverage in the sort of 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:34.040 like Anglophone maation media. And with me to talk about 0:53:34.040 --> 0:53:37.879 that is Justine Wanda's a stand up comedian, a political satirist, 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:41.320 and a writer who's created Fake Book with Justine about 0:53:41.640 --> 0:53:43.400 well basically all the stuff that we're going to be 0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:45.319 talking about today are there are things you will see 0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:47.919 on this show. Justine. Welcome to the show. 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:51.279 Thank you so much for having me me. How are 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:51.640 you doing? 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:52.919 Ah? 0:53:53.600 --> 0:53:55.160 You know this is this This is one of those 0:53:55.239 --> 0:53:59.040 morning recordings so I'm a little bit unhinged, but it's okay. 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:05.520 We're I'm really excited to talk to you. So yeah, yeah, 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:06.719 I'm really excited to talk to you. 0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:07.319 And I yeah. 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:10.000 So I think I think the place to start here 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:14.520 is can you talk about So these protests are about 0:54:15.000 --> 0:54:19.600 an upcoming finance bill, So let's talk about what actually 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:22.239 is this bill and what's in it? 0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:26.560 Okay, So for me to be able to talk about 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:29.840 the finance bill, I have to talk about the finance 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:31.439 bill that was past last year. 0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:32.279 Yeah, go for it. 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:36.680 So in twoy twenty three, we had a finance bill 0:54:36.760 --> 0:54:40.759 that was passed. Most of the financial last year had 0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:45.480 something called the housing Levy, which basically requires every single 0:54:45.600 --> 0:54:49.040 Kenyon who's employed to remove a little bit of their 0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:54.520 salary to go directly to pay for an account where 0:54:54.520 --> 0:54:58.759 they'll pull the money to build Kenyon's affordable houses. And 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:03.080 in Kenya, house is not especially a crisis in rural 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:06.400 areas because most people have their own personal phones. The 0:55:06.560 --> 0:55:09.920 issue is usually the urban centers where housing is actually 0:55:10.000 --> 0:55:14.240 very expensive and it's it's very poorly infrastructured, like there's 0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:18.000 no water, sometimes there's no electricity in certain parts, like 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:22.200 people have done a lot of illegal collection connections. So 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:25.920 last year the bill was kind of rummed through and 0:55:25.960 --> 0:55:28.880 there was so much public participation. Actually in the beginning 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:31.840 that was like a lot of people got angry about 0:55:31.880 --> 0:55:35.040 the bill forcing people to take money out of their 0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:37.239 pockets to contribute to a fund that didn't seem like 0:55:37.239 --> 0:55:40.359 they had a plan. And a lot of politicians were 0:55:40.400 --> 0:55:43.920 actually on TV and everyone was watching every interview and 0:55:43.920 --> 0:55:48.520 they're like, you don't make any sense, we don't understand. Yeah, 0:55:48.600 --> 0:55:52.360 it's like, what is that money for? We're not sure, 0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:54.759 but we know we're to building houses. How are you 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:56.759 going to manage the money? Who's going to be in 0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:59.960 charge of the money. How is this? Like every single 0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:03.799 aspect was met by like some form of deflection or 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:07.320 like a lie, just like a lot of there wasn't 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:11.359 any accountability in the in what they were telling us. 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.279 And even the person who was in charge was like 0:56:14.320 --> 0:56:16.560 on TV, he was sweating. He looked like he was 0:56:16.640 --> 0:56:21.160 lying though who wrote time. So everyone was like, if 0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:24.720 this is how you're speaking about it when we aren't 0:56:24.760 --> 0:56:28.600 giving out money, what will happen after the fact. But 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:31.560 the bill sailed through and one of the elements that 0:56:31.680 --> 0:56:35.520 was in that field that wasn't even in the news 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:38.880 was that avocado farmers in the country will start with 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.760 charging us will be charged a certain amount of money 0:56:41.760 --> 0:56:44.239 on their produce and they have to produce receipts on 0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:48.440 this every single day. What like if yes, if you 0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:53.120 sell like an avocado, one avocado or of avocados, you 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:55.920 have to do a breakdown of like your sales and 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:58.719 like provide receipts to the government and then like you're 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:03.520 charged for it. Oh my god, and yes, and the 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:07.719 MPs this like earlier this year, were like when the 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.600 bill usually like sometimes it takes a while for the 0:57:11.480 --> 0:57:14.319 closest to come into effect. It takes like maybe a 0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:17.640 couple of months. So the amoungst their farmers were supposed 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:21.680 to get charged was supposed to go live on sorry 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:25.960 in February or something. So in February, farmers are getting 0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.160 attacked by like the Kenure Revenue Authority. They're being told 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:31.320 you need to provide these receipts and everything, and everyone 0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:34.800 is like, I don't understand because we weren't informed. And 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:37.680 then the politicians who did not read the bill but 0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:40.360 first it were like, oh, we didn't read the document. 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:46.520 It was too big what yes, exactly, So like that 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:49.920 kind of information was what that was what was on 0:57:49.960 --> 0:57:53.360 the news just before they introduced now the financial twenty 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:55.440 four So it's like, we know you didn't read the 0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:59.919 one from last year, you passed a bunch of bill, 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:03.200 is that you didn't understand the impact of it in 0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:06.360 the long term, So why would should you? Why should 0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.560 Kenyans trust you with this new one? And then they 0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.440 were like, no, we have the best economic interests that 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:15.760 had And then everyone was like, but the billy passed 0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:19.680 last year to increase revenue didn't work. So if it 0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:22.880 didn't work, what makes you think having a bunch of 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:26.160 new taxes they're going to work. And they couldn't answer that. 0:58:26.480 --> 0:58:30.240 And now this finance built entertain wants to introduce much 0:58:30.240 --> 0:58:32.800 of your call tax, where if you own a car, 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:37.040 you will pay like a certain amount like I think 0:58:37.200 --> 0:58:43.080 two percent that's of the voliation of your car, and 0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:47.200 you paid to your insurance company every single year. 0:58:47.560 --> 0:58:48.480 Wait do you insure? 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:50.840 What? 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:50.200 What? 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:51.040 Why? 0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:51.320 Wait? 0:58:52.240 --> 0:58:55.560 Hold on, so why why is the tax? Why is 0:58:55.600 --> 0:58:57.400 this being paid to the insurance company? 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:01.920 Because that's that's how people asking. It's like, we understand 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:05.760 because insurance and Kenya is mostly run by private entities 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:09.680 just know exactly what they're doing, so it's more like 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:12.360 a way to privates and get money into people's protects 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:14.880 so we can't see and then and end up being 0:59:14.920 --> 0:59:17.720 stolen and there will be no thoportability. But they say 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:21.040 it's easier because the insurance company is already handled this 0:59:21.160 --> 0:59:24.760 kind of stuff. So it's on top of your insurance. 0:59:24.800 --> 0:59:26.760 On top of the insurance you pay for your car, 0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:30.320 you pay the motor vehicle tax as part of that. 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:33.880 And I'm like, that's ridiculous. We don't trust our money 0:59:33.920 --> 0:59:36.880 on any given day. Why would you think we would 0:59:36.960 --> 0:59:40.040 just to suddenly with the branch of money being granted 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:44.080 by a private from somewhere because they're not going to 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:45.040 show us their books. 0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:49.000 Yes, it seems like part of this too, is just 0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:52.120 that the sort of tax infrastructure isn't very like the 0:59:52.120 --> 0:59:54.600 tax collection infrastructure isn't very good, because you would think 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:57.800 that that wouldn't be that hard for the government to 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:01.840 just collect. Instead, we have like a like an Ottoman 1:00:01.960 --> 1:00:03.800 style tax farming situation. 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:09.280 So I love it you say that, because like that's 1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:12.000 how that's exactly how it feels like everything is run. 1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:16.200 It's very we're the smartest people in the room. We 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:18.480 can't make the wrong decision. But you've made the wrong 1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:21.040 decision again and again and again, and now we're like, 1:00:21.360 --> 1:00:24.000 we want to see the approach. We want to understand 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:26.760 how this is going to work in the face of unemployment, 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:29.800 in the face of like the country has not been 1:00:30.040 --> 1:00:34.160 in good economic trajectory for a while now, and that 1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:37.920 those economic shocks can be felt. A lot of people 1:00:37.920 --> 1:00:41.120 are closing down their businesses. A lot of people are downsizing, 1:00:41.200 --> 1:00:45.240 which means it's less people employed. Even the beauty industry, 1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:48.760 which is mostly like random inputs, because they're chudgling so 1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:52.280 much input duty, the beauty industry can't even stand on 1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:56.960 its own, so people are not just buying less makeup. 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.200 It's like people who are those stores and any of 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:01.720 those kinds of basay. This is can't even have the 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:04.080 like the person who comes to get the job days. 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:07.120 It becomes a bit of a problem. So everyone is like, 1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:09.360 if you're going to charge us more, you have to 1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:11.560 have an infrastructure that works for us. 1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:12.640 Yeah. 1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:16.400 Yeah. Another tax that they're adding on the Finance bill 1:01:16.480 --> 1:01:22.160 is the inputs duty fee to like sanitary towels, wheelchair tired, 1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:25.960 like because like Kenya doesn't manufacture a lot of stuff. 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:30.440 So you find like our like the pad manufacturing industry 1:01:30.480 --> 1:01:35.040 in Kenya, like sanitary towers, only two percent are manufactured here, 1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:38.360 like a big chunk comes from outside and they want 1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:41.360 to increase the input duty on that. So that means 1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:43.600 the pads in the market are going to be even 1:01:43.680 --> 1:01:44.480 more expensive. 1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:48.280 Yeah, and that's something that like that that's not that's 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:51.160 not a like that's that's that's that's not a luxury good. 1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:53.280 You just need that. 1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:58.040 Yeah, So everyone was like, Okay, I guess though, we'll 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:01.880 just have to stop having periods. Is like that, that's 1:02:01.880 --> 1:02:06.560 what you're saying, Like we're govern have to magically, Yeah, 1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:08.960 we're gonna have to figure out magically with nature to 1:02:09.000 --> 1:02:11.439 just stop having periods because you guys want to tax 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:16.000 us in this particular way. And it's it's not just 1:02:16.040 --> 1:02:19.520 like the small things because like the problem with the 1:02:19.680 --> 1:02:27.080 Kenyans space, especially with sensitive issues. So our our third president, 1:02:27.840 --> 1:02:32.480 his name was Mikey Baki, was the first one of 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:36.040 the first presidents in the world to remove v ty 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:40.560 on sanitary towers. Like he was seen as like someone 1:02:40.600 --> 1:02:44.440 who's setting an example for so many people. And then 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:48.560 the fact that this is happening when this country was 1:02:48.560 --> 1:02:51.880 seen as like a chin setter to like not just 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:54.120 African countries but other countries around the world when it 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:59.760 comes to like very important goods, it was felt like 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:03.160 going backwards, and not in a way. It's not like 1:03:03.200 --> 1:03:05.640 we didn't have an example to follow. We actually did 1:03:05.760 --> 1:03:08.680 have a set precedent on like how an economy is 1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:12.040 supposed to work. So everyone who's grown up in these 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:16.480 particular environments where they felt safe and protected by the 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:18.760 government and like the government taking they live on very 1:03:18.760 --> 1:03:24.040 important issues was like, you can't say building Kenya, buying 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:27.040 Kenya is a top priority for you. And even electricity 1:03:27.040 --> 1:03:31.000 costs are expensive, yeah, because even this will adds like 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:35.880 a fewel levy tax it's going up by seven shillings, 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.360 which is way too expensive. So you pay for your fuel, 1:03:40.760 --> 1:03:43.280 but like most of the charges on the fuel is 1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:47.080 just the levees and taxes and they're adding a little 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:48.040 bit more year. 1:03:49.080 --> 1:03:51.800 And it seems like from the way that these are 1:03:51.800 --> 1:03:54.720 being structured that you know, I mean, one of the 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:57.400 things with direct like I guess we call them sales 1:03:57.440 --> 1:04:01.760 taxes here is that the incredibly regressive. The people who 1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:04.880 get affected the most by are the people who you 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:08.200 don't have that much money versus something like doing you know, 1:04:08.680 --> 1:04:11.080 versus doing like an income tax, and like the people 1:04:11.120 --> 1:04:13.560 who are the highest owners. This is this the burden, 1:04:13.600 --> 1:04:16.040 This falls entirely on people who are poor and can't 1:04:16.040 --> 1:04:16.560 afford it. 1:04:17.320 --> 1:04:20.960 Yes, that's I think it's very scary to think a 1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:24.520 lot of our politicians because they get paid with taxpayer money, 1:04:24.720 --> 1:04:27.400 and what they did when during when they were writing, 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:29.880 when they were contributing to the budget, they were like, 1:04:30.000 --> 1:04:33.320 we want we want this and this, want to be 1:04:33.360 --> 1:04:35.520 added for this and this thing. But the problem is, 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:38.080 like when you look deep down what they're looking for, 1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:40.920 they don't want to pay taxes off of their salaries. 1:04:40.960 --> 1:04:43.800 They want to find a way for taxpayers to pay 1:04:44.240 --> 1:04:46.200 for part of the taxes that are being added so 1:04:46.240 --> 1:04:49.680 that they don't have to lose money. Yeah, and every yeah, 1:04:49.720 --> 1:04:52.280 everyone is like, we know your budgeting for corruption. We 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:56.439 can see you, we can see still, we can see 1:04:56.440 --> 1:04:58.560 you still, and we don't want to be part of that. 1:04:58.640 --> 1:05:02.000 And now to them it was like we're being aggressive 1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:05.480 because we want we want them to be held accountable 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:08.439 for their very punitive for the punitive measures that they're 1:05:08.440 --> 1:05:11.520 sending to like regular opinions. As you said, a lot 1:05:11.520 --> 1:05:16.000 of sales taps is affect every day before and we 1:05:16.040 --> 1:05:18.600 don't know how else to stop it. And I think 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:21.680 that's why they protest are so they're catching fire and 1:05:21.760 --> 1:05:23.400 everyone wants to be out in the street. 1:05:25.320 --> 1:05:27.280 Yeah, and we are going to we are going to 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:29.080 come back and talk about the protests in a second, 1:05:29.120 --> 1:05:32.480 but first I here, here are some products and services 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:36.360 that are I don't know, probably also be taxed. But 1:05:48.800 --> 1:05:52.320 all right, and we are back. Yeah, So okay, I 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:55.440 think I think people should should have like a decent 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:59.760 understanding of the fact that these taxes are these are 1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:02.520 tax to some basic commodities that people need. And that's 1:06:02.880 --> 1:06:06.680 one of the easiest ways to start a protest movement 1:06:06.720 --> 1:06:09.280 is to suddenly make it too expensive to live. So 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:13.480 let's talk about who. Yeah, how these protests sort of 1:06:13.680 --> 1:06:15.840 started and how they've been being organized. 1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:19.680 My issues that we can't really say how the protests started, 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:22.880 but there was a lot of anger by Kenyons online 1:06:22.880 --> 1:06:26.600 because Kenyons are chronically online, like especially the younger generation, 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:29.240 a lot of people have cell phones, a lot of 1:06:29.240 --> 1:06:32.000 people are not tuned into the news really, but the 1:06:32.080 --> 1:06:35.520 information sharing happens whell Like when a clip from the 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:38.880 news is cut put on tiptop, people see it, this 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:41.840 is happening, so it will get angry and then they shared. 1:06:42.520 --> 1:06:46.000 So what happened with the the Finance book. People would 1:06:46.000 --> 1:06:50.200 cut very little clips from the news and then someone 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:52.200 would help put it in context. So that's where my 1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:56.280 channel comes in, where I'm not just using the news clips. 1:06:56.400 --> 1:06:59.480 I provide evidence like I've got through the Finance built, 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:03.760 and then even consults with people who are in like 1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:07.360 ask lawyers on Twitter, like people who have resources and 1:07:07.480 --> 1:07:09.680 understand the law, or like what that would mean for 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:12.760 everyday cannons. I would literally reach out and it got 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:15.680 to a point where I am now in communication with 1:07:15.800 --> 1:07:19.560 the right channels, like you can directly ask how this 1:07:19.640 --> 1:07:22.680 would impact people, like if they tax bread more or 1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:26.800 like refuse to make it easier for suppliers to get 1:07:27.240 --> 1:07:30.560 items for the supply chain, how does this affect everyday people? 1:07:30.920 --> 1:07:34.560 So that helps bridge the graph of information and now 1:07:34.720 --> 1:07:37.760 with more people critically not just looking at their news 1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:40.880 but finding the evidence for themselves. Really have helped us 1:07:40.920 --> 1:07:44.160 get to a point where when you share, we are 1:07:44.200 --> 1:07:47.360 protesting about this issue. This is where we're going, this 1:07:47.440 --> 1:07:50.280 is what's happening. This this will happen in a certain town. 1:07:50.600 --> 1:07:56.160 So like Nairobi had its own occupy parliament reject the 1:07:56.200 --> 1:08:01.480 financial demonstration, it happened in Mombasa, to it happened in 1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:05.080 neary Elderate, all these smaller towns where people will live, 1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:07.880 but they're people from rural areas. They won't really care. 1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:13.320 And I'm like, you don't know that. Yeah. And also 1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:16.840 something that's really magical that's happened. A lot of Kenyons 1:08:16.920 --> 1:08:19.080 were like, Okay, maybe there there are a lot of 1:08:19.120 --> 1:08:22.479 Kenyons who live in rural areas who don't have media 1:08:22.640 --> 1:08:26.559 that doesn't cater to traditional listeners, like people who only 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:31.719 speak certain languages so vernacular stations. So people started using 1:08:31.760 --> 1:08:36.760 TikTok to do direct translation. It's like this is the script, yes, 1:08:36.800 --> 1:08:39.519 this is the script for the the financial buildings. Are 1:08:39.520 --> 1:08:41.439 the taxes being added. This is the tax on bread, 1:08:41.600 --> 1:08:43.680 This is the tax on your on your vehicle. This 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:46.960 is the tax that will happen on like period and 1:08:47.000 --> 1:08:49.760 sanitary paths and diapers and everything. So someone does the 1:08:49.840 --> 1:08:52.400 whole break down in their vernacular language and they share 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:55.439 it on their family Whatspp groups called penans love whatksapp. 1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:59.000 That's why if you're if you want to do anything 1:08:59.040 --> 1:09:03.520 proper gandalate, you can easily bot onwards app before messages 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:07.759 are crazy. So because like WhatsApp is mostly co opted 1:09:07.800 --> 1:09:12.439 by antis and moms and people who love to share. 1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:15.080 Please go to chat share share this to seven friends. 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:17.240 People took that mandy to where they send it to 1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:19.519 their moms and then have it shared like seven of 1:09:19.560 --> 1:09:22.679 their friends who don't understand me do what the finance 1:09:22.760 --> 1:09:25.559 bill entails. And that is really changing the landscape of 1:09:25.640 --> 1:09:27.760 like who gets to interpret the bills, who gets to 1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:32.080 understand how it influences them. And it's been very very effective, 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.960 So people who are passive are more and more understanding 1:09:36.000 --> 1:09:37.960 of like why everyone is on the streets. 1:09:38.160 --> 1:09:42.320 Yeah, yeah, it seems like it almost seems like there's 1:09:42.320 --> 1:09:45.120 isn't there's kind of a I don't know, it's like 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:47.600 a TikTok think tank that's been sort of doing this 1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:50.240 valuation that has been spread through That's that's really cool. 1:09:52.040 --> 1:09:54.760 I'm just saying it's absolutely lovely to see because like 1:09:54.840 --> 1:09:59.320 tribalism has been a tool that's been wielded, especially during elections, 1:09:59.360 --> 1:10:01.840 to make onions look like they don't care about each 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:05.439 other and they can't go beyond their differences. And this 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:08.640 time it's like, yeah, we do have language barriers, but 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:11.800 we're not going to let that affect us negatively. We're 1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:14.839 going to figure out a way through the noise before 1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:18.880 they start co opting those spaces and start saying, oh, 1:10:19.120 --> 1:10:22.120 gen z, kids are lying or millennials are just started 1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:24.680 getting money, so why would they care about taxes? And 1:10:25.200 --> 1:10:29.000 so everyone is making sure that those spaces are not corrupted. Yeah. 1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:32.360 Yeah, it seems like a really sort of incredible popular 1:10:32.439 --> 1:10:37.599 education thing that's been empowering this. Yeah, so I want to, 1:10:37.920 --> 1:10:40.479 I guess talk about I mean, one of the things 1:10:40.479 --> 1:10:46.320 that I think maybe kind of breached the I don't know, 1:10:46.400 --> 1:10:49.000 calling it like the Great Firewall is exactly right, but 1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:50.479 it's like, I think one of I think one of 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:53.120 the parts of this that has gotten a little bit 1:10:53.160 --> 1:10:56.000 of play in the sort of beautia over here has 1:10:56.040 --> 1:11:00.360 been the police response, which has been terrible. Yeah, about 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:01.719 what the cops have been. 1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:10.479 Doing, Okay, in Kenya protests Historically, protests have always been 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:15.439 extremely violent, Like during the Moi era, people used to 1:11:15.439 --> 1:11:19.640 get beaten unlocked. MOI was al second president. He was 1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:23.160 in office for twenty four years, so he was a 1:11:23.160 --> 1:11:26.920 power holder a least those words, there's a power holder. 1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:30.479 He didn't want to go anywhere. He wanted to stay 1:11:30.560 --> 1:11:34.200 in power as long as he could and to counter 1:11:34.280 --> 1:11:37.960 anyone who would go against him. People were tortured, people 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:42.880 were disappeared, people were children like dropped in forest. Many 1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:45.519 families couldn't find their members, especially if they went out 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:49.759 of protest or do anything. That's why Wankarematas story, who's 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:54.439 like one of the biggest environment total champions the world 1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:57.760 has ever seen. Her story was so unique because in 1:11:57.840 --> 1:12:00.680 the face of the most brutal dictators and every thing, 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:05.120 she showed up and like she didn't just disagree, but 1:12:05.360 --> 1:12:08.040 she brought back and she did she use the same 1:12:08.120 --> 1:12:10.840 tactics that people are using now. She informed the very 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:15.240 ignored part of the population to get the information across 1:12:15.240 --> 1:12:19.519 that if they start taking away your land and putting 1:12:19.600 --> 1:12:22.200 down your tree and you won't be able to pumb, 1:12:22.439 --> 1:12:24.479 you won't have anything. This is this whole place is 1:12:24.479 --> 1:12:26.320 going to be at their set in a couple of years. 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:28.920 So everyone was funnying because like land is a very 1:12:28.960 --> 1:12:32.479 sensitive issue yea, And that's why the movement worked so 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:35.439 well because she was not speaking, she was not just 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:39.240 peaking against authoritude that she was going to like the 1:12:39.360 --> 1:12:43.040 people who who were going to be affected the most. 1:12:43.120 --> 1:12:46.320 And during those protests she was beaten up. Her hair 1:12:46.560 --> 1:12:49.599 was like young top her hair. It was very Yeah, 1:12:49.640 --> 1:12:52.280 it was very graphic and very painful. Like you watch 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:54.519 these videos and they're like, who does something like this? 1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:59.799 And now it's very replicated. Sorry, it was replicated again 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:06.040 like throughout his presidency, but throughout the years, a lot 1:13:06.080 --> 1:13:10.680 of civil rights movements and all the community based organizations 1:13:10.720 --> 1:13:13.200 like came together and they will still protest about staff, 1:13:13.439 --> 1:13:16.040 but the issue it had moved on from like large 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:19.800 protests to even smaller protests, being like they would send 1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:24.759 the police to bitter people who are speaking up about 1:13:24.800 --> 1:13:30.080 any issue. And usually because like you're in smaller communities, 1:13:30.080 --> 1:13:33.519 there's no way to track. So if someone lies in 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:37.600 Quibera and it's a slam area and it's mostly disenfranchised, 1:13:38.160 --> 1:13:41.160 the community organizations there, no they turn and find justice 1:13:41.160 --> 1:13:44.840 for the family. But because our police are mostly helped, 1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:47.960 you can't hold them to account because they work for 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:50.759 the state, it's very hard to get any form of justice. 1:13:51.120 --> 1:13:56.960 But this time was it last year when people are 1:13:57.000 --> 1:14:00.479 protesting about the cost of living. I think it was 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:04.360 just shortly before the finance built twenty twenty three past 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:07.840 people were protesting. People were out and they were angry 1:14:07.960 --> 1:14:12.800 about everything, and people were beaten up. Someone lost their 1:14:12.880 --> 1:14:16.200 two year old child because the child was beaten by 1:14:16.200 --> 1:14:22.479 the police. Yeah. Yeah, Like there's a woman who lost 1:14:22.680 --> 1:14:27.040 her son. Because usually when you're at protests, sometimes the 1:14:27.080 --> 1:14:30.200 people who are passing by, but because you're there and 1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:32.439 the police are there, they end up eating. Even if 1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:34.639 you're not past year, you're not back to the process. 1:14:34.640 --> 1:14:36.920 So that there's a woman who ended up losing her 1:14:37.000 --> 1:14:41.120 son last year to the protest, and her adopted son too. 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:45.000 And then this this year, like a couple of weeks ago, 1:14:45.080 --> 1:14:49.000 she died in a flood in my daddy, So and 1:14:49.120 --> 1:14:52.559 then yess are like seeing their terrible nature of like 1:14:52.840 --> 1:14:56.280 how state violence kIPS continuing. So this time when the 1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:58.720 protests are being organized, everyone who is like make sure 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:03.000 you're peaceful, don't carry in stones because like throws stones 1:15:06.040 --> 1:15:08.600 like Perry stones. You couldn't even pick up teas and 1:15:08.640 --> 1:15:11.519 like throw it back and everything, and this time everyone 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:13.960 is like, just make sure you're very peaceful, only use 1:15:14.000 --> 1:15:17.519 your voice, protect each other. Like a lot of the 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:20.640 announcements around the protests like make sure it's paceful so 1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:22.439 that they don't have an excuse to say that you 1:15:22.479 --> 1:15:25.439 are out on the streets doing something illegal. You don't 1:15:25.520 --> 1:15:29.400 attack shops, you don't try and force yourself into anyone's premises. 1:15:29.960 --> 1:15:32.760 And what happened that was very beautiful this year is 1:15:32.800 --> 1:15:35.120 like the establishments, like the one I'm in right now 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:40.639 was helped protect citizens who were protesting, so kids would 1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:42.519 be out of this then start getting teaters and like 1:15:42.560 --> 1:15:44.640 they would open the door, people would come in and 1:15:44.680 --> 1:15:48.479 they would close the door until the away. Yeah, so 1:15:48.560 --> 1:15:53.040 you find establishments are working to not just protect people, 1:15:53.120 --> 1:15:55.360 but also to be to be part of showing like 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:58.880 this is our premises. It's not being looted, it's not 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:03.400 being destroyed, because destruction of property apparently is a bigger 1:16:03.600 --> 1:16:08.759 problem than you losing your life. So most people felt 1:16:09.360 --> 1:16:11.360 they were safe at the protest, and they also felt 1:16:11.400 --> 1:16:15.920 like they were seen by other protesters. So it was 1:16:16.000 --> 1:16:21.760 largely peaceful, very well coordinated. There's information on how to 1:16:21.800 --> 1:16:26.040 get medical help or in case we're arrested, how to 1:16:26.160 --> 1:16:30.760 get as bigal assistance. So every single element was like 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:33.439 we're not just going to ban out of like going 1:16:33.479 --> 1:16:36.719 into the streets, but making sure everyone returns home safely. 1:16:37.479 --> 1:16:41.720 A lot of the protests in the past war they 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:44.560 got a little violent because maybe some of the protesters 1:16:44.600 --> 1:16:48.400 went road and obviously their politicians love to use bad 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:51.559 actors where they implant a bunch of people who go 1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:54.479 and destroy business premises, and then it looks like the 1:16:54.520 --> 1:16:57.479 protesters didn't come there to actually protest, they were there 1:16:57.479 --> 1:17:02.000 for their own selfish reasons. So this time what happened 1:17:02.040 --> 1:17:04.800 is like a lot of the protesters were given the 1:17:04.880 --> 1:17:08.360 right information on how to stay peaceful. It's like these 1:17:08.360 --> 1:17:10.599 are the streets to use, these are the meeting points, 1:17:10.600 --> 1:17:14.040 These are the contract people for in case you get injured, 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:17.640 is this medic in case you get arrested, these are 1:17:17.680 --> 1:17:21.280 the lawyers in case your friend disappears. Make sure they 1:17:21.320 --> 1:17:23.439 have a live location on so we can track them 1:17:23.479 --> 1:17:28.920 and everything. So it was widely successful because that kind 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:36.880 of peaceful and well coordinated navigated towards spaces that were 1:17:36.960 --> 1:17:39.439 if not before, like the safety of everyone was a 1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:44.759 priority and because our leaders can't really find who started 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:47.719 the protests because it's mostly like a group who led 1:17:47.760 --> 1:17:52.040 the movement, they've started abducting who they feel like our 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:53.080 community leaders. 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:55.840 Yeah, yeah, so I guess that that's something I wanted 1:17:55.840 --> 1:17:58.839 to ask about, was like, has the police response actually 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:01.519 been any less bad this time that has been with 1:18:01.600 --> 1:18:02.880 other So. 1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:08.840 This time on Thursday, they shot, Yeah, they shot into 1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:14.479 a crowd and one of them ended up shooting at 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:19.000 twenty four year old and he bled out he died. 1:18:19.840 --> 1:18:22.559 His name is Rex Marsill. And then another kid was 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:26.759 also shot. His name is Evans Kiragu was also shot, 1:18:26.800 --> 1:18:29.240 and I think they were trying to get him help 1:18:29.240 --> 1:18:34.519 and everything, but he died yesterday, I believe. And there's 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:38.840 still other rochesters who are yet to be found. And 1:18:38.880 --> 1:18:43.960 then yesterday morning there's a very popular Twitter personality who 1:18:44.320 --> 1:18:48.840 was disappeared, like they kind of appracted him. Yeah yeah, 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:52.479 But then Kenyon's held a space online for over six 1:18:52.520 --> 1:18:57.040 hours and they're like they were dragging government officials and 1:18:57.200 --> 1:18:59.920 like if you people don't return this particular person, we will, 1:19:00.120 --> 1:19:08.639 And it was very particularly funny because Kenyon's, you would 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:12.519 think this younger generation people don't have concentration issues. No 1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:16.040 one is going to listen to us. But like everyone 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:18.000 was like online and they were paying attention to like 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:20.360 every single speaker just to keep the space longer, holding 1:19:20.360 --> 1:19:23.760 space for the person who had been taken. And he 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:28.280 was found his lawyers, the lawyer, sorry, the lawyers in 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:30.840 church found him and they went and like they went 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:34.200 and got him and he went back safe, but obviously 1:19:34.200 --> 1:19:37.240 you could see he was visibly shaken. His creaturent name 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:42.360 is crazy and aerobian. Yeah, and then now today they 1:19:42.400 --> 1:19:46.040 took one of the doctors was organizing for a blad 1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:51.800 drive in like in a certain up market area. They 1:19:51.880 --> 1:19:55.160 just picked him out, and like, no one has been 1:19:55.200 --> 1:19:57.920 able to find him until now. So people are still 1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:02.639 advocating to like getting back and a lot of big 1:20:03.040 --> 1:20:06.160 personalities are making phone calls. Lawyers are showing up that 1:20:06.320 --> 1:20:09.120 like if you see this particular car, if you if 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:12.200 you sit in your location, timely informants share the information. 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:14.479 So everyone who's online is trying to get the right 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:17.960 information to make sure that that doctor is brought back. 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:26.320 And yeah, ironically that doctor is actually unemployed because the 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:30.599 the government is refusing to hire new medical personnel because 1:20:30.680 --> 1:20:35.160 like it's too expensive when we see them, like driving 1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:41.120 around in new cars has like very expensive shoes, and 1:20:41.320 --> 1:20:43.559 everyone is like, your shoes could literally pay like three 1:20:43.600 --> 1:20:49.400 doctors high high the right thing. Yeah, but I can 1:20:49.560 --> 1:20:51.880 ends up pushing to make sure everyone is safe and 1:20:51.920 --> 1:20:57.040 everyone who's lost, especially big Twitter influencers and big media 1:20:57.120 --> 1:21:00.920 personalities and influencers are coming together to me, they use 1:21:00.960 --> 1:21:04.280 their platforms to help find anyone who's not who's been 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:11.880 disappeared or been abducted. Yeah, h. 1:21:17.760 --> 1:21:20.719 Where do you think the difference of going from here? 1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:23.639 I know, actually, well, actually I think I think I've 1:21:23.680 --> 1:21:27.080 lost track of what reading of the bill they're at 1:21:27.160 --> 1:21:27.640 right now was. 1:21:27.680 --> 1:21:30.600 I thought it was the third reading or it's a 1:21:30.800 --> 1:21:35.360 it's at the committee stage. So at the committee stage 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:39.320 they go through the every single close and they try 1:21:39.360 --> 1:21:42.120 to justify why they should keep it or whether they're 1:21:42.120 --> 1:21:44.880 going to disband it. But everyone is just like, we 1:21:44.960 --> 1:21:47.799 don't want any of this because some of the bills, 1:21:48.439 --> 1:21:49.880 there's a there's a part of the bill that I 1:21:49.920 --> 1:21:53.120 didn't mention where the Kenya Revenue Authority is supposed to 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:58.240 go through Kenyon's personal data to see you're dodging taxes 1:21:59.080 --> 1:22:01.559 and I'm like that, it's ridiculous because a lot of 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:05.479 people in kinda are supported by a family member. So 1:22:05.520 --> 1:22:08.040 you find, you find if I have money, I'll send 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:11.200 it to my kids, and then my kids made my 1:22:11.400 --> 1:22:14.160 body to their friends who's probably in trouble. So if 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:16.799 it looks like I have money coming in, it's probably 1:22:16.960 --> 1:22:20.320 maybe because of like a family contribution, a personal contribution. 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:22.680 So they want to charge more taxis on that, and 1:22:22.760 --> 1:22:26.400 it actually makes no sense. So it looks like they're 1:22:26.479 --> 1:22:29.880 chasm how much money you look like you have. Yeah, yeah, 1:22:29.920 --> 1:22:31.720 it looks like they're checking how much money look like 1:22:31.760 --> 1:22:33.680 you have, and then they want to taxing on that 1:22:33.840 --> 1:22:36.920 or like say you're evading taxes, And it's scaring a 1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:40.439 lot of people because once that happens, it feels like 1:22:40.479 --> 1:22:42.640 there's no safety in anything you have. 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:46.720 So I guess so from from there, So is the 1:22:46.760 --> 1:22:50.439 strategy right now based around sort of trying to get 1:22:50.479 --> 1:22:52.760 these trying to get the committees to just like to 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:54.759 have this bill sort of die there or. 1:22:57.200 --> 1:23:00.559 A lot of us are trying to make sure the 1:23:00.600 --> 1:23:03.439 bill doesn't go any further than it is, and everyone 1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:06.439 is tracking their empasse. So what happened even before the 1:23:06.520 --> 1:23:12.400 protest people started sharing their MPs numbers. Every single person 1:23:12.439 --> 1:23:14.680 would find like a member of Parliament's numbers, and we're like, 1:23:14.760 --> 1:23:17.160 if you if this is your relative, please give it 1:23:17.200 --> 1:23:21.439 to us. If it is your side, cheek or whatever 1:23:22.320 --> 1:23:26.519 whatever where you relate to this person. Because it's government officials, 1:23:26.520 --> 1:23:29.120 their numbers should be public anyway, citizens should be able 1:23:29.160 --> 1:23:34.599 to reach them. And because they wanted to hide behind 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:38.760 their big, big cause and big houses, we were like, okay, 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:40.599 we're going to find you where you're asked, and we're 1:23:40.600 --> 1:23:43.360 going to text you and we're going to tell you 1:23:43.400 --> 1:23:46.560 to vote no. And most of the impulse were very dismissing. 1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:51.759 They were like, uh, the party that i'm that's backing 1:23:51.880 --> 1:23:54.519 me is the one that got me into office. It's like, no, 1:23:54.640 --> 1:23:58.120 people voted for you, you should represent their views. So 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:00.760 a lot of canyons held their lives where's like, I 1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:04.200 don't care what your boss is telling you or what 1:24:04.400 --> 1:24:07.120 party this is, you have to vote with us. So 1:24:07.360 --> 1:24:10.160 a lot of MPs who are shamed online some of 1:24:10.200 --> 1:24:20.840 them had to but like they changed their votes. Incredible, Yes, yeah, 1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:23.880 I dontieve we should do this more often. So that's 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:27.360 really that really gave hope to a lot of canons 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:30.519 who are feeling like maybe their work isn't amounting too much. 1:24:30.840 --> 1:24:34.080 But we lost. We lost that one battle. A lot 1:24:34.080 --> 1:24:36.160 of us ended up using the battle to the second 1:24:36.200 --> 1:24:40.920 reading because many of the MP's were So there's this 1:24:41.120 --> 1:24:44.280 fund called the CDF IDIF fund. It's the constituency the 1:24:44.479 --> 1:24:49.160 Constituency Development Fund that MPs kind of use it like 1:24:49.200 --> 1:24:53.639 their personal bank account. So members of Parliament, Yeah, members 1:24:53.680 --> 1:24:56.559 of PARLIAMENTI get the CDIF fund and then they'll use 1:24:56.600 --> 1:25:00.240 it to go and like so it's supposed to sally 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:03.479 take care of like bursaries or any county emergencies directly 1:25:03.520 --> 1:25:06.760 affecting constituts. But what IMPY is doing is that like 1:25:06.800 --> 1:25:11.080 they wild it as a parsenal bank account. So it's 1:25:11.120 --> 1:25:13.280 like you have to like do a lot of us 1:25:13.439 --> 1:25:17.280 kissing and a lot of performative nonsense for you to 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:20.920 even get some of the money, and a lot of 1:25:20.960 --> 1:25:24.200 people don't actually end up getting the money. So what 1:25:24.680 --> 1:25:30.760 the budget makers did They decided to talk up the 1:25:30.880 --> 1:25:34.280 CDF fund so that more emplies have more money, and 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:36.759 usually they just potet that money. So they're like, Okay, 1:25:36.840 --> 1:25:40.519 I feel like my budgeted corruption has hit the account, 1:25:40.680 --> 1:25:42.760 I don't need to do the right thing. 1:25:43.479 --> 1:25:47.760 Yeah, so that's just literally a bribe exactly. 1:25:47.800 --> 1:25:51.120 It's like the best way is like and they're like, no, 1:25:51.240 --> 1:25:53.280 I'll have more money to take care of the constituency. 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:56.479 It's like, no, you steal this money anyway, you guys 1:25:56.520 --> 1:25:59.120 have any You're not going to do a conscience today 1:25:59.280 --> 1:26:03.720 just because money. So most of all are trying to 1:26:03.760 --> 1:26:06.519 get the parts of the budget we've seen there, then 1:26:06.600 --> 1:26:10.200 let's put into efforts that go there directly to education 1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:13.080 and healthcare, even if even if it's directly to the 1:26:13.120 --> 1:26:17.080 school instead of the individual. Yeah, so that that will 1:26:17.120 --> 1:26:20.400 help cut down on that kind of corruption that a 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:24.280 lot of mpies run with. And I think that's scaring 1:26:24.360 --> 1:26:28.639 some of them. And we're hoping we're hoping to get 1:26:28.640 --> 1:26:34.599 more people to be to push their members of Parliament 1:26:35.120 --> 1:26:41.440 or any nominated representatives to recognize that all these items 1:26:42.080 --> 1:26:45.320 that they're voting for it's not just going to affect us, 1:26:45.320 --> 1:26:48.360 but will affect them and the money that they're hoping 1:26:48.400 --> 1:26:51.920 to steal. So if you're going to steal progress, we're 1:26:51.960 --> 1:26:54.400 going to don't get any of the money here. 1:26:56.600 --> 1:27:00.639 Incredible, Yeah, is there is there anything else you want 1:27:00.640 --> 1:27:01.720 to add before you wrap up. 1:27:02.160 --> 1:27:06.920 Yeah, I'll say usually when a lot of stories and 1:27:07.080 --> 1:27:11.800 like the African continent are covered, it's usually like Africans 1:27:11.920 --> 1:27:16.519 vote for bad leaders, and well that is true. Most 1:27:16.560 --> 1:27:18.360 of the times, people don't feel like they have an option. 1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:22.840 Yeah, and like you know, if you you listeners statistically 1:27:22.880 --> 1:27:25.800 are probably either an American or a brain, so like you. 1:27:25.520 --> 1:27:28.200 You you know exactly what that's like. 1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:35.679 You're like someone who just you have Trump and he's 1:27:35.720 --> 1:27:39.800 like a contra now right now. So yeah, because the 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:44.599 little so TikTok, something happened I think yesterday or something 1:27:45.000 --> 1:27:51.040 where people were like, how dependans vote for this person? 1:27:51.160 --> 1:27:54.280 You are such a very dark criminal past, and and 1:27:54.320 --> 1:27:58.120 everyone was like, have you guys seen yourselves? You can 1:27:58.960 --> 1:28:04.280 there there are no highs. Everyone makes very foolish mistakes 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:06.519 and all of us look like we don't know what 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:09.320 to do to make sure people like that don't ascend 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:12.320 into power, because like group things sometimes gets us to 1:28:12.400 --> 1:28:15.800 like very dangerous places. It happens everywhere. No one is 1:28:15.880 --> 1:28:21.519 any less affected if someone who you hope to lose 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:26.200 games power, like you're all in deep trouble, Like no 1:28:26.240 --> 1:28:29.320 one is on a higher pedestal than the other all 1:28:29.360 --> 1:28:31.880 of you can actually lose a lot. And one of 1:28:31.920 --> 1:28:34.639 the things that we are trying to remind each other's 1:28:34.680 --> 1:28:36.559 we're trying not to get to this space. So what 1:28:37.040 --> 1:28:41.240 canons are trying to propose like a direct manifesto where 1:28:41.280 --> 1:28:44.400 any person who's running has to have like a close 1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:47.800 in their manifesto that is going to even be turned 1:28:47.800 --> 1:28:50.599 into like a policy and law where if you steal 1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:54.240 any money or we co found doing anything corrupt, you 1:28:54.360 --> 1:28:57.599 have to like remove yourself from office immediately, like there's 1:28:57.640 --> 1:29:01.679 no bargaining to do whatsoever, Like you have to live 1:29:01.680 --> 1:29:04.040 office immediately, and then we're going to seize all your 1:29:04.040 --> 1:29:11.720 property anything. Yeah, it's like if we're going to get 1:29:11.720 --> 1:29:14.720 into power, make sure the salary you're getting is then now, 1:29:15.240 --> 1:29:18.439 if you have any ambitions, let them die now, like 1:29:18.680 --> 1:29:22.240 do everything before you get into earth. And I think 1:29:22.360 --> 1:29:25.439 that's so encouraging to see because everyone is not just 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:28.719 looking at them now and like all these bad taxes 1:29:28.760 --> 1:29:31.799 and the bad leadership that we have, but also looking 1:29:32.479 --> 1:29:34.800 to the future of like how do we make sure 1:29:34.800 --> 1:29:38.160 we don't get here again. So that's really encouraging to 1:29:38.240 --> 1:29:42.640 see everyone is making sure that they hold people to 1:29:42.680 --> 1:29:46.200 account across the board, like if your protesters, make sure 1:29:46.200 --> 1:29:49.719 you're safe, make sure you know this information. But also 1:29:49.800 --> 1:29:52.040 for the future, this is what we want. So it's 1:29:52.080 --> 1:29:54.360 not just like we're moving bad taxes, but if we're 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:56.479 going to pay taxes, are they going to be used? 1:29:56.720 --> 1:29:59.120 And how how are we going to make sure that 1:29:59.200 --> 1:30:03.720 the future of the and cheap is being protected by 1:30:04.000 --> 1:30:08.880 collective interest and not just like individual worship, which has 1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:12.880 been a very very big problem in Kenyan culture because 1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:17.560 like over here musicians are barely celebrities, but a politician 1:30:17.600 --> 1:30:20.960 would work in here and like people would like lose 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:24.040 arms and legs to just see hi. So we're trying 1:30:24.160 --> 1:30:28.160 to make sure we fix that too. Yeah. 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:30.559 Yeah, So I guess the people listening to just want 1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:33.080 to try to help support the protests. Are there are 1:30:33.080 --> 1:30:34.960 there stuff that other things they can do in places 1:30:35.000 --> 1:30:37.200 they can go to find more information. 1:30:37.080 --> 1:30:37.400 And. 1:30:39.320 --> 1:30:42.280 Because a lot of it is group organized, I have 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:50.120 to find the the information. I could send it to you. Yes, 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:52.639 I don't know if from the top of my head, 1:30:54.000 --> 1:30:57.640 because I think and like most people would like do 1:30:57.840 --> 1:31:02.559 individual A lot of we have a lot of mobile 1:31:02.640 --> 1:31:06.240 money transferred, which are usually direct to the person so 1:31:06.280 --> 1:31:08.719 that it doesn't work with various channels and then people 1:31:08.800 --> 1:31:13.200 end up misappropriating or stealing. So if community lens, so 1:31:13.240 --> 1:31:15.760 I'll have to find the information and then sharing. 1:31:16.240 --> 1:31:16.479 Cool. 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:19.360 Yeah, and okay, if if people want to find you 1:31:19.400 --> 1:31:20.720 on the internet, where can they do that? 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:26.680 So on Instagram and TikTok, it's pay work. We just 1:31:26.800 --> 1:31:29.840 tin like at people with Justin, like the full handle 1:31:30.560 --> 1:31:37.000 on Twitter, it's at official f w w J. So 1:31:37.040 --> 1:31:42.320 it's official f w w J, which is just people 1:31:42.360 --> 1:31:43.680 with just In official people for. 1:31:44.560 --> 1:31:47.800 Yeah, we'll get we'll get that in the description too. 1:31:47.960 --> 1:31:52.280 Yeah. Yeah, I do have my personal account, but I 1:31:52.280 --> 1:31:56.680 don't know if I want to give that. Yeah, I 1:31:56.800 --> 1:31:59.160 just know I can still give it. It's at Justin 1:31:59.280 --> 1:32:02.040 wonder j U S D I n E W A 1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:05.360 n D Yeah cool. 1:32:05.600 --> 1:32:07.599 Yeah, Jessine, thank you so much. Thank you so much 1:32:07.600 --> 1:32:09.679 for coming on the show talking about this has been great. 1:32:10.680 --> 1:32:12.760 Thank you so much for having me in letting me 1:32:12.840 --> 1:32:14.840 like just run my mouth work up. 1:32:16.040 --> 1:32:18.840 Yeah, and good good, good luck to you all. Hope 1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:21.559 you fucking hope you stop them and bring them all down. 1:32:22.120 --> 1:32:24.759 I really hope we do. If we don't, it's gonna 1:32:24.760 --> 1:32:29.920 be so sad. Yeah, thank you so much. 1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:34.040 Yeah, of course, And yeah, let's spinak it off here 1:32:34.200 --> 1:32:38.639 and you too can go make your politicians lives miserable. 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:57.760 Welcome back to it could happen here a podcast where 1:32:57.880 --> 1:33:00.920 Robert Evans is lying down on a cout because he 1:33:01.400 --> 1:33:06.360 just feels exhausted from sleeping a leftn full hours. Garrison, 1:33:07.120 --> 1:33:11.040 you were much younger than me, and don't seem to 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:14.840 feel exhausted because you just woke up after staying up 1:33:14.880 --> 1:33:15.840 all night, did you? 1:33:16.720 --> 1:33:16.960 Yeah? 1:33:17.080 --> 1:33:18.440 No, not as exhausted. 1:33:19.280 --> 1:33:20.640 I hate you. 1:33:21.040 --> 1:33:21.360 Do you know? 1:33:21.520 --> 1:33:23.000 Do you know what is exhausting Robert? 1:33:23.560 --> 1:33:24.160 Elections? 1:33:24.640 --> 1:33:27.120 The twenty twenty four presidential election. 1:33:26.960 --> 1:33:29.280 The twenty twenty four presidential election. Yeah, I hate it. 1:33:29.320 --> 1:33:33.519 I hate it, Garrison, I hate it. But also I 1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:37.320 have made a commitment. I have made a commitment to 1:33:37.920 --> 1:33:41.080 making a prediction about the election this year and sticking 1:33:41.080 --> 1:33:43.719 to it, even though it's going to make everybody angry. 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:46.519 And I have a good reason for doing so. It's 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:49.519 because I want to try one of the rarest drugs 1:33:49.640 --> 1:33:54.160 that exists in the world today, that Nate Silver. Shit. See, 1:33:54.720 --> 1:33:59.000 everyone's been wondering since like twenty twenty what's up with 1:33:59.080 --> 1:34:01.439 that guy. Did he like lose his mind? Was he 1:34:01.560 --> 1:34:05.719 always kind of like out there and we just didn't 1:34:05.760 --> 1:34:08.839 notice because he he got lucky a couple of elections 1:34:08.880 --> 1:34:11.559 in a row. And the answer to that is no, 1:34:11.920 --> 1:34:15.439 Nate was a pretty reasonable guy. He comes out of 1:34:15.520 --> 1:34:18.280 like not politics. He only got into politics in two 1:34:18.280 --> 1:34:22.120 thousand and six because they banned online gambling and he 1:34:22.200 --> 1:34:25.560 got angry about it. And then he accurately predicted the 1:34:25.560 --> 1:34:28.400 two thousand and eight and twenty twelve elections. 1:34:28.240 --> 1:34:30.840 Which wasn't hard to be fu Which wasn't hard. 1:34:30.640 --> 1:34:32.600 No, it was not. I mean, he got all the 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:36.759 states right, but it was just a matter because people 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:38.800 have pointed out he didn't seem to be nearly as 1:34:38.840 --> 1:34:41.880 accurate in twenty sixteen or twenty twenty. There's a degree 1:34:41.880 --> 1:34:45.160 of fairness to that. But like twight and twenty twelve 1:34:45.160 --> 1:34:48.240 were our last non smartphone elections where there wasn't this 1:34:48.439 --> 1:34:52.519 like big, you know, demon of social media kind of 1:34:52.560 --> 1:34:56.880 hiding behind everything and making everything a lot weirder. And 1:34:57.400 --> 1:34:59.439 I think part of you know, I think what ultimately 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:02.559 caused Nate's madness though, is that in twenty sixteen he 1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:05.559 did pretty well. He like laid out he was a 1:35:05.560 --> 1:35:08.160 twenty nine percent chance of Trump winning, and when he 1:35:08.479 --> 1:35:11.840 explained what that chance was, how Trump might sweep the 1:35:11.880 --> 1:35:15.400 Blue Firewall states and whatnot, it's basically what wound up happening, 1:35:15.920 --> 1:35:19.679 and as like a reward for being more or less correct. 1:35:19.880 --> 1:35:22.240 While the election was going on, all of the Democrats 1:35:22.240 --> 1:35:25.240 hated him because the news sources they liked said that 1:35:25.280 --> 1:35:28.080 Trump had only a two percent chance of winning, and 1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:31.160 then when the election was over, it became like mainstream 1:35:31.680 --> 1:35:36.120 kind of reality to just say, yeah, Nate fucked that 1:35:36.160 --> 1:35:38.880 one up. He finally screwed up, and I think that 1:35:39.360 --> 1:35:42.760 that mix of things is what's driven him insane. So 1:35:42.920 --> 1:35:46.400 I've decided to predict that there's a twenty nine percent 1:35:46.520 --> 1:35:50.040 chance that the election is basically the same as twenty 1:35:50.080 --> 1:35:52.840 twenty and now, unlike Nate, I don't have any kind 1:35:52.880 --> 1:35:55.360 of math to back that up. It's just a gut feeling. 1:35:55.400 --> 1:35:58.760 But I'm calling that now because I want people to 1:35:58.760 --> 1:36:02.160 get really angry at me now, and then ideally, when 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:05.240 I'm right, they'll get even angrier at me, and then 1:36:05.320 --> 1:36:07.960 I can go insany it on social media and just 1:36:08.040 --> 1:36:10.800 gradly become completely unhinged and see what it's like to 1:36:10.840 --> 1:36:12.959 be Nate Silver, the Ultimate high Garrison. 1:36:13.640 --> 1:36:15.599 See, I thought you were going to say you thought 1:36:15.600 --> 1:36:18.679 there was a twenty nine percent chance that Nate Silver 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:23.280 would just completely completely lose it and do some like like. 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:25.840 You do a major terrorism. 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:26.080 Yeah. 1:36:26.120 --> 1:36:27.400 Yeahs that's what I thought. 1:36:28.120 --> 1:36:28.320 Yeah. 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:30.880 He drives a double decker bus into the end of 1:36:30.960 --> 1:36:35.280 the Lincoln Memorial. God, that's my that's my hope. 1:36:35.320 --> 1:36:37.480 He storms the five thirty eight headquarters. 1:36:37.880 --> 1:36:43.559 Yeah, he's gonna take it back once and for all. 1:36:45.000 --> 1:36:49.040 Okay, so today we're gonna be talking about election polling. Uh, 1:36:49.120 --> 1:36:53.040 the debate is very very soon here in Atlanta, Georgia, 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.800 And as a little bit of a preparatory measure, we 1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.280 want to go over some of the actual poll numbers 1:37:00.120 --> 1:37:03.280 for the twenty twenty four presidential election. I like to 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:07.599 start with this Iowa poe from Seltzer and Co. Now, 1:37:07.640 --> 1:37:10.559 Iowa's a weird one, right. Iowa has has gone read 1:37:10.640 --> 1:37:14.519 pretty consistently the past two years, although twenty twenty was 1:37:14.600 --> 1:37:17.840 closer than twenty sixteen. In twenty twenty, Trump won the 1:37:17.840 --> 1:37:21.000 state by fifty three point one percent to Biden's forty 1:37:21.000 --> 1:37:23.960 four point nine percent. But the numbers right now are 1:37:24.280 --> 1:37:28.639 much much worse for Biden. Not good, No, it's it's 1:37:28.680 --> 1:37:30.960 it's pretty bad. Tr Trump is leading Biden in the 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.880 general election in Iowa by eighteen percentage points, and third 1:37:34.880 --> 1:37:39.160 party candidates, including Kennedy and the Libertarian candidate Chase Oliver, 1:37:39.560 --> 1:37:44.320 are receiving a combined fifteen percent support. It's pretty bad. 1:37:44.320 --> 1:37:45.880 It hasn't been this bad in a while. 1:37:46.000 --> 1:37:46.160 Now. 1:37:46.200 --> 1:37:49.519 People like to use this specific Iowa poll as kind 1:37:49.560 --> 1:37:52.960 of a barometer for the Midwest in general, and that's, 1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:57.760 you know, not completely accurate all the time, but it 1:37:57.840 --> 1:38:01.280 is something that people do consistently to as a general 1:38:01.360 --> 1:38:04.479 barometer for Trump's possible success in the Midwest. Now we 1:38:04.560 --> 1:38:07.800 have minnesotatae. 1:38:06.960 --> 1:38:09.880 Because one of the most probably the most viable path 1:38:09.960 --> 1:38:13.519 to Biden winning involves holding that quote unquote blue firewall, 1:38:13.520 --> 1:38:17.400 which doesn't include Iowa obviously. It does include Michigan and Wisconsin, 1:38:18.160 --> 1:38:21.200 both of which are generally within the margin of error 1:38:21.200 --> 1:38:24.160 in most polls but looking very sketchy for Biden compared 1:38:24.160 --> 1:38:25.920 to how he would like them to be at this point. 1:38:26.120 --> 1:38:29.960 Wisconsin's not looking great. Minnesota. According to a survey a 1:38:30.080 --> 1:38:32.320 USA poll from just a few days ago, Biden is 1:38:32.400 --> 1:38:33.080 up six points. 1:38:33.439 --> 1:38:35.680 Yes, Yes, Michigan is I think the one I was 1:38:35.680 --> 1:38:37.639 saying is a little closer. Yeah. 1:38:37.800 --> 1:38:40.600 So that's kind of the situation with this poll. And 1:38:40.640 --> 1:38:41.720 I'm not going to get into any of the more 1:38:41.760 --> 1:38:45.479 specific numbers because the numbers in this Iowa poll are 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:48.120 going to be actually pretty reminiscent of more of the 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:51.120 general election numbers, which we're going to get into, especially 1:38:51.160 --> 1:38:53.760 when we're going to start factoring in things like the 1:38:53.800 --> 1:38:57.880 conviction and Trump's popularity among independence which could very well 1:38:57.920 --> 1:39:01.840 be a major deciding factor in this election. So I'm 1:39:02.280 --> 1:39:05.799 going to quote from Forbes here quote. Trump leads Biden 1:39:05.880 --> 1:39:08.040 by one point fifty to twenty nine percent in a 1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:10.479 CBS poll released Sunday that comes after a streak of 1:39:10.520 --> 1:39:13.880 surveys found Trump's lead has slipped since his felony conviction 1:39:14.000 --> 1:39:17.519 Manhattan last month, including a Fox News survey released Wednesday, 1:39:17.520 --> 1:39:20.960 the nineteenth that shows Biden up by two points, a 1:39:21.000 --> 1:39:23.800 three point swing since the network's May survey. This was 1:39:23.840 --> 1:39:26.559 among a streak of five poles since mid June that 1:39:26.600 --> 1:39:31.880 show Biden beating or tied with Trump unquote. So Biden 1:39:31.880 --> 1:39:34.479 has made some considerable progress in the polls in the 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:37.040 past month. Biden and Trump are now tied in the 1:39:37.040 --> 1:39:39.599 Morning Consults weekly survey, as Biden has now been leading 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:42.439 Trump by a point in for two weeks in a row. 1:39:42.920 --> 1:39:46.080 A month prior, Trump was way way ahead of Biden, 1:39:46.240 --> 1:39:48.720 and the two are also tied in the Economist You 1:39:48.840 --> 1:39:51.640 Go of survey released last Thursday, as well as a 1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:55.640 PBST Marrist poll from Tuesday the eighteenth. 1:39:56.080 --> 1:39:58.000 Yeah, and there's a couple of things. I mean, like, 1:39:58.720 --> 1:40:01.240 it's easy to say that's probably due to the conviction, 1:40:01.360 --> 1:40:04.640 because that's the biggest thing that's happened since then. But 1:40:04.720 --> 1:40:06.720 I also think there's a decent chance that some of 1:40:06.760 --> 1:40:08.880 that is just the result of the fact that Trump 1:40:08.960 --> 1:40:11.160 is now definitely the nominee, which was a little more 1:40:11.240 --> 1:40:14.000 up in the air previously, so now people are kind 1:40:14.000 --> 1:40:17.640 of forced to consider what that really means. But it 1:40:17.680 --> 1:40:20.880 does seem in general like there's been motion and like 1:40:20.920 --> 1:40:23.879 things have been moving in Biden's favor since the conviction. 1:40:24.439 --> 1:40:26.759 So I don't think it's wrong to say that probably 1:40:26.800 --> 1:40:29.559 overall the evidence suggests helps Biden at this point. 1:40:30.040 --> 1:40:32.840 Yeah, and the Fox News survey is really interesting because 1:40:32.880 --> 1:40:34.720 they have this They have it on a graph here 1:40:35.280 --> 1:40:39.400 and you can see Biden steadily moving upwards on the 1:40:39.479 --> 1:40:45.880 graph very consistently, and Trump has largely flatlined. If not, 1:40:46.160 --> 1:40:49.160 is actually kind of moving a little bit down. Robert F. 1:40:49.200 --> 1:40:53.839 Kennedy Junior is also moving quite down. Yeah, not completely 1:40:53.840 --> 1:40:56.880 surprising considering the whole brain brainworms thing. 1:40:57.520 --> 1:41:00.360 He's going to be the most interesting thing, the most 1:41:00.360 --> 1:41:02.599 interesting thing because whether or not Trump wins could mean 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:05.160 whether or not we are able to continue doing what 1:41:05.200 --> 1:41:08.360 we do. But OURFK is kind of the most interesting 1:41:08.400 --> 1:41:11.880 thing for me in terms of like, are is it 1:41:11.920 --> 1:41:13.519 going to Is there going to be any kind of 1:41:13.520 --> 1:41:16.439 evidence that there's actually real hunger for a third party 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.600 which everyone keeps talking about. Is this constant topic of 1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:24.639 discussion in US politics, but it never happens, and and 1:41:24.760 --> 1:41:27.479 people were getting very RFK is obviously a bad guy 1:41:27.520 --> 1:41:29.680 to pin your hopes on a viable third party on, 1:41:30.160 --> 1:41:32.000 but I am interested to see if it if it, 1:41:32.080 --> 1:41:37.200 because there's a decent evidence that the primary chunk because 1:41:37.200 --> 1:41:40.720 when you factor in RFK, Biden's lead doesn't go down right, 1:41:40.960 --> 1:41:43.000 because RFK is really popular among a lot of the 1:41:43.000 --> 1:41:46.880 independence that Trump is already strong with. And so the 1:41:46.880 --> 1:41:50.559 big question is, like, is he going to drain votes 1:41:50.560 --> 1:41:53.360 from Trump or just kind of fizzle out. And I 1:41:53.439 --> 1:41:55.080 think right now the smart money is kind of on 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:57.719 fizzling out. But it's it's a little hard to say. 1:41:58.880 --> 1:42:01.040 Do you know what we can say for sure though, Robert. 1:42:01.560 --> 1:42:05.240 That Robert F. Kennedy Junior is the primary sponsor of 1:42:05.280 --> 1:42:06.120 this podcast. 1:42:06.280 --> 1:42:08.559 God, I hope, so, I hope, I really hope we 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:10.360 start getting some RFK ads on here. 1:42:10.760 --> 1:42:12.840 Look, folks, if you if you're not sure whether or 1:42:12.880 --> 1:42:14.760 not you want to vote for RFK, we get it. 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:16.840 You know, obviously it's a this is a big choice. 1:42:16.840 --> 1:42:19.240 But our recommendation is head down to the Gulf of 1:42:19.280 --> 1:42:23.120 Galveston and shove your head in that in that Texas 1:42:23.400 --> 1:42:26.800 coast water, get a couple of Amibas rattling around on 1:42:26.800 --> 1:42:28.840 that brainy ores, and then see how you feel about 1:42:28.880 --> 1:42:42.519 our FK Junior. You know, all right, we are back. 1:42:43.240 --> 1:42:45.880 Let's talk a little bit about independence, because this voting 1:42:45.880 --> 1:42:50.519 block will basically be the deciding factor in this whole election. 1:42:51.240 --> 1:42:55.200 So that PBS Marrist poll that found Trump and Biden 1:42:55.360 --> 1:42:59.600 tied also found that Trump has lost six points with 1:42:59.600 --> 1:43:02.920 independent compared to their poll taken just before his conviction 1:43:03.200 --> 1:43:07.440 last May. And Biden has gained eight points with independence 1:43:07.479 --> 1:43:10.520 and now leads Trump by two points in that category. 1:43:10.560 --> 1:43:13.720 And similarly, the Fox poll also shows Biden leading by 1:43:14.000 --> 1:43:15.920 nine points among independents. 1:43:17.120 --> 1:43:20.599 And that's a massive shift. That's enough of a shift 1:43:20.600 --> 1:43:24.200 that I wonder how much polling methodology maybe to explain 1:43:24.240 --> 1:43:26.559 for it, Like were they just pulling these people? Were 1:43:26.560 --> 1:43:28.840 they pulling them badly before? Or are they pulling them 1:43:28.840 --> 1:43:32.400 badly now? Because that's that's quite a lot of movement. 1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:35.200 We'll talk a little bit about pulling methodology here at 1:43:35.240 --> 1:43:38.160 the end, because it might. Yeah, it is, certainly the 1:43:38.200 --> 1:43:42.120 polling methodology produces a large degree of the numbers. A 1:43:42.120 --> 1:43:43.720 lot of these polls have a margin of error of 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:47.760 about three point five percent. But this this finding is 1:43:47.800 --> 1:43:51.360 consistent across almost every single poll being done right now. 1:43:52.000 --> 1:43:56.439 A political uh ipsos poll from mid June found that 1:43:56.479 --> 1:43:58.800 thirty two percent of independence say they are now less 1:43:58.920 --> 1:44:01.760 likely to support Trump after his conviction, with twenty one 1:44:01.840 --> 1:44:05.120 percent saying it would be an important factor in their vote. 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:08.519 Yep, And I did. This is the kind when we 1:44:08.520 --> 1:44:11.240 were taught would talk in the group chat before the conviction. 1:44:11.360 --> 1:44:13.439 I would. I made a note a couple of times 1:44:13.439 --> 1:44:15.680 of the fact that there's a sizeable number of Americans 1:44:15.720 --> 1:44:18.720 who are not what you'd call high information voters but 1:44:18.840 --> 1:44:22.280 just feel really gross about voting for a felon. And 1:44:22.360 --> 1:44:24.559 I think these are the kind of people who are 1:44:24.600 --> 1:44:26.760 independence a lot of the times. They're not people who 1:44:26.800 --> 1:44:28.759 think much about politics. They're people who. 1:44:28.560 --> 1:44:31.720 Makes part m typically yeah. 1:44:31.280 --> 1:44:33.240 Yeah, yeah, and they can kind of make a swing, 1:44:33.320 --> 1:44:36.040 gut decision on either of these guys in a moment, 1:44:36.080 --> 1:44:39.080 and if you tell well, he's a felon, that matters 1:44:39.120 --> 1:44:43.400 to some people. There's like the this frustrates a lot 1:44:43.400 --> 1:44:46.840 of like high information political analysts, the fact that so 1:44:46.920 --> 1:44:50.720 many Americans just kind of like make almost random decisions 1:44:50.800 --> 1:44:53.439 like flip of a coid calls about what to do, but. 1:44:53.920 --> 1:44:57.800 Which is also what makes pulling very hard. Is right, 1:44:58.160 --> 1:45:00.719 but all all polls also into hey, that this will 1:45:00.840 --> 1:45:03.800 probably be a much closer election than twenty twenties, and 1:45:03.840 --> 1:45:08.160 in an election this close, small shifts among independents could 1:45:08.320 --> 1:45:10.679 very well determine the outcome. Now, I'm going to quote 1:45:10.720 --> 1:45:15.000 from that Political Episos report on their own poll quote 1:45:15.120 --> 1:45:17.360 quote A plurality of respondents in our poll, thirty eight 1:45:17.360 --> 1:45:20.000 percent reported that Trump's conviction would have no impact on 1:45:20.040 --> 1:45:22.360 their likelihood support Trump for president. Thirty three percent of 1:45:22.400 --> 1:45:24.120 respondent said that the conviction made them less likely to 1:45:24.160 --> 1:45:27.519 support Trump, while only seventeen percent said it made them 1:45:27.680 --> 1:45:31.599 more likely. These results were worse for Trunk. Among respondents 1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:34.840 who said they were political independents, thirty two percent said 1:45:34.840 --> 1:45:36.840 that the conviction made them less likely to support and 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:39.600 only twelve said that it made them more likely to 1:45:39.600 --> 1:45:43.439 support Trump unquote. And that same poll also found that 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:46.240 nine percent of Republicans say they're now less likely to 1:45:46.240 --> 1:45:47.240 support Trump. 1:45:47.560 --> 1:45:50.519 Yeah, which is massive, and that that actually makes me 1:45:50.560 --> 1:45:52.480 want to bring up one of the guys the analysts 1:45:52.479 --> 1:45:57.160 I've been reading, because this is actually the extent that 1:45:57.160 --> 1:45:59.960 there's any real basis behind my twenty nine percent chance 1:46:00.160 --> 1:46:03.960 things work out basically, like twenty twenty one, it's this 1:46:03.960 --> 1:46:08.800 this fucking dude Helmet Norpoth Norpoth is he's one of 1:46:08.840 --> 1:46:11.800 these guys who's built a model, Like you get these 1:46:11.840 --> 1:46:15.320 every now and then, like because they're great content for 1:46:15.520 --> 1:46:17.639 TV news. Dudes like, oh, this guy's got a model 1:46:17.680 --> 1:46:21.679 prediction the election. His model predicted the last forty elections properly, 1:46:21.680 --> 1:46:23.519 even though they like ran them through after we knew 1:46:23.560 --> 1:46:25.720 how the elections were going to go, and I don't 1:46:25.760 --> 1:46:29.160 know how fair that is. Helmet actually did accurately predict 1:46:29.800 --> 1:46:31.960 a couple of like the last He's had his model 1:46:32.000 --> 1:46:34.839 going the primary model for like the last seven elections, 1:46:34.840 --> 1:46:37.439 and it predicted five of them correctly. Now, one it 1:46:37.479 --> 1:46:41.799 got right was twenty sixteen, although it predicted how Trump 1:46:41.920 --> 1:46:44.200 was going to win wrong, it got that he was 1:46:44.240 --> 1:46:46.519 going to win right. I don't know how much credence 1:46:46.560 --> 1:46:47.920 you want to give that. And he fucked up in 1:46:47.960 --> 1:46:50.120 twenty twenty, although you know the fact that there was 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:52.280 a pandemic, then I'll give him a little bit of grace. 1:46:52.360 --> 1:46:55.240 The other one he fucked up was twenty was two thousand, 1:46:55.760 --> 1:46:56.720 but he called it. 1:46:57.040 --> 1:46:58.000 He called it for Gore. 1:46:58.160 --> 1:47:01.960 So yeah, well, I'll read from his website describing like 1:47:01.960 --> 1:47:03.880 how this works, because it's relevant to what you're talking 1:47:03.920 --> 1:47:06.360 about in terms of independent voters, and it's also relevant 1:47:06.400 --> 1:47:09.840 to what I think is another major factor and who's 1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:13.479 going to ultimately win, which is likely voters versus like correct. 1:47:13.800 --> 1:47:16.280 If I feel like it, I'll vote because Biden's lead 1:47:16.880 --> 1:47:21.320 jumps substantially when you consider likely voters correct whereas Trump 1:47:21.360 --> 1:47:25.040 does very well with like maybe voters, and I kind 1:47:25.040 --> 1:47:26.280 of don't feel like this is going to be a 1:47:26.320 --> 1:47:29.479 high turnout election. Rights, that's what I am seeing. 1:47:29.680 --> 1:47:31.679 We have some data on this that I'll talk about later. 1:47:31.760 --> 1:47:34.679 Yeah, yeah, And Helmet's model works that way. So quote, 1:47:34.840 --> 1:47:37.479 the primary model gives President Joe Biden a seventy five 1:47:37.479 --> 1:47:40.559 percent chance to defeat Donald Trump in November. This forecast 1:47:40.560 --> 1:47:42.640 takes account of the performance of the two candidates in 1:47:42.680 --> 1:47:46.080 the early primaries. Biden won the Democratic contest in those 1:47:46.120 --> 1:47:49.040 states by far larger margins than Trump did and Republican ones. 1:47:49.240 --> 1:47:51.479 What also benefits Biden and the general election is an 1:47:51.479 --> 1:47:54.799 electoral cycle that fits the sitting president in a nutshell. 1:47:54.840 --> 1:47:57.839 A White House incumbent facing no significant challenge in primaries 1:47:57.840 --> 1:48:01.200 almost always wins reelection for the electoral college. The most 1:48:01.240 --> 1:48:04.040 likely outcome of the twenty twenty four election predicted by 1:48:04.040 --> 1:48:06.040 the model is that Biden will get three fifteen and 1:48:06.080 --> 1:48:09.000 Trump two two three And basically, so part of why 1:48:09.040 --> 1:48:11.960 I think this guy's probably a hack, but it's kind 1:48:11.960 --> 1:48:15.240 of interesting is he's looking at how they performed relative 1:48:15.280 --> 1:48:18.599 to each other in their primaries, and you could there's 1:48:18.640 --> 1:48:20.880 a degree to which you can say, like, well, primaries 1:48:20.920 --> 1:48:24.360 are absolutely not general elections. But what it does show 1:48:24.479 --> 1:48:29.000 is relative how much Trump's support has faded from Republicans. 1:48:29.120 --> 1:48:33.680 And Trump actually did considerably less well in the primaries 1:48:33.960 --> 1:48:36.160 than he did in twenty twenty. Right totally, there was 1:48:36.200 --> 1:48:41.960 a degree of actual like hunger to vote for Kerry 1:48:42.040 --> 1:48:47.160 Lake Humaya, I think, is the Arizona Right candidate who 1:48:47.240 --> 1:48:51.080 was running against him, and he showed weakness in a 1:48:51.160 --> 1:48:54.439 number of primary states that was not there in twenty twenty, 1:48:54.439 --> 1:48:56.960 which suggests, along with the polling you showed, you know 1:48:57.040 --> 1:48:59.160 that like nine percent of Republicans are less likely to 1:48:59.200 --> 1:49:01.680 vote from after they can an amount of weakness in 1:49:01.720 --> 1:49:06.400 his base that could be pretty meaningful when we get 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:08.240 to the election. And I don't think it's been taken 1:49:08.280 --> 1:49:11.000 into account enough by, for example, folks on the left 1:49:11.040 --> 1:49:14.080 looking at how much everybody hates Joe Biden, which is 1:49:14.120 --> 1:49:16.559 also a very real factor. But I think that people 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:19.160 are kind of denying the degree to which a lot 1:49:19.200 --> 1:49:21.799 of folks who should be his based don't like Trump anymore. 1:49:22.240 --> 1:49:24.240 Yeah, and this is one of the weird things. Post 1:49:24.320 --> 1:49:26.720 to conviction. There were some pundits who are trying to 1:49:26.760 --> 1:49:29.840 make an argument that somehow the conviction would actually make 1:49:30.120 --> 1:49:34.760 Trump a more popular choice, which maybe works if you're 1:49:34.800 --> 1:49:37.719 like a contrarian, but it doesn't really make much sense. 1:49:38.120 --> 1:49:40.439 And if you look at like the approval ratings for 1:49:41.040 --> 1:49:44.400 the conviction and the verdict, they fall pretty pretty well 1:49:44.400 --> 1:49:47.960 on party lines. It's really going to come down to independence. 1:49:49.000 --> 1:49:51.760 Like everyone who's going to vote for Trump, who like 1:49:51.960 --> 1:49:54.040 really really really want to vote for Trump, are still 1:49:54.040 --> 1:49:57.200 going to vote for Trump, right, Like that's how it goes. 1:49:57.320 --> 1:49:59.880 Absolutely not, and they will buy the I'm voting for 1:50:00.000 --> 1:50:02.519 the felon hats that Facebook keeps trying to sell. 1:50:02.320 --> 1:50:04.479 Made absolutely right, Like, those are not the people that 1:50:04.520 --> 1:50:06.840 are in question, But there is a large number of 1:50:06.880 --> 1:50:09.160 other people who do not own a mega hat who 1:50:09.200 --> 1:50:12.400 are actually, you know, questionable in who they're going to 1:50:12.520 --> 1:50:14.240 vote for. On this note, I'd like to like to 1:50:14.320 --> 1:50:17.599 quote again from Forbes quote. Polls consistently show the conviction 1:50:17.720 --> 1:50:20.280 is a low priority for most voters in deciding who 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:23.160 to actually cast their ballot for. The political Ipsos poll 1:50:23.200 --> 1:50:25.200 found that fifty three percent said it's not important said 1:50:25.200 --> 1:50:27.240 it's not important to their voting decision. Well sixty one 1:50:27.280 --> 1:50:30.519 percent in a Reuter's pull released last week, said it 1:50:30.520 --> 1:50:33.559 won't impact their vote unquote. Now, one of the clearer 1:50:33.600 --> 1:50:36.320 shifts that we have seen post verdict is a sizable 1:50:36.320 --> 1:50:39.960 increase in Biden voters who list stopping Trump as one 1:50:39.960 --> 1:50:42.600 of their main reasons to do so. This we have 1:50:42.680 --> 1:50:45.800 numbers from March to now, is that the main reason 1:50:45.800 --> 1:50:48.960 for supporting Biden. In March, we had forty seven percent 1:50:49.080 --> 1:50:52.200 saying it's to oppose Trump. Now it's fifty four percent 1:50:52.280 --> 1:50:54.840 saying it's to oppose Trump. Which I think that number 1:50:54.880 --> 1:50:57.639 will only increase the closer we get to the election, 1:50:57.800 --> 1:51:00.599 because people don't want Trump to be present, and again 1:51:00.840 --> 1:51:04.160 even though they don't like Biden like. The other thing 1:51:04.240 --> 1:51:06.840 with these numbers is that the percent of people who 1:51:06.920 --> 1:51:10.120 say I like Biden as reason for supporting him has 1:51:10.240 --> 1:51:15.040 decreased since March. Yes, yes, by four percent. 1:51:15.360 --> 1:51:18.439 Of course, because he's not likable and he's he shouldn't 1:51:18.479 --> 1:51:22.599 be president still, but Trump is even like and people 1:51:22.680 --> 1:51:26.240 understand like I that is the number one thing when 1:51:26.240 --> 1:51:29.120 I go out of like my the bubble of my 1:51:29.200 --> 1:51:31.920 friends and whatnot and talk to family members or just 1:51:32.000 --> 1:51:35.479 like have conversations with ret like uber drivers or whatnot 1:51:35.520 --> 1:51:39.080 about politics. I have not heard a single person state 1:51:39.160 --> 1:51:41.519 a reason for vote. They want to vote for Biden 1:51:41.720 --> 1:51:43.840 that is more important than I don't want Trump to 1:51:43.880 --> 1:51:47.559 be president. That is everyone that I encounter basically like I'm, 1:51:48.000 --> 1:51:51.280 I'm obviously you have other people, but it is weird 1:51:51.760 --> 1:51:54.160 to the extent to which that's what this election is 1:51:54.200 --> 1:51:56.400 going to come down on. And I kind of think 1:51:56.439 --> 1:51:59.800 it's evidence that like of a of a failure and 1:51:59.800 --> 1:52:03.200 strategy in Trump's part, because I think he probably could 1:52:03.200 --> 1:52:06.759 do better if he were to focus on allaying those 1:52:06.800 --> 1:52:09.920 fears that he wants to become a dictator as opposed 1:52:09.960 --> 1:52:12.519 to harping on like one of the things that's interesting 1:52:12.560 --> 1:52:15.559 to me. He's campaigning very heavily in Wisconsin right now. 1:52:15.800 --> 1:52:18.400 He's already made like two visits just to southeast Wisconsin 1:52:18.400 --> 1:52:21.080 in the last two months. Because Wisconsin is up for 1:52:21.120 --> 1:52:23.840 grabs right Every poll I've seen basically is within margin 1:52:23.880 --> 1:52:26.280 of air. It's either guy's game, and it's a critical state. 1:52:26.920 --> 1:52:31.479 And Trump is hammering Biden on crime in Wisconsin. Right 1:52:32.400 --> 1:52:34.080 look at how your dims have done, look at how 1:52:34.120 --> 1:52:37.080 much more violent this city's become. And about one percent 1:52:37.120 --> 1:52:41.120 of registered voters in Wisconsin consider crime a major concern 1:52:41.200 --> 1:52:43.840 in a presidential election. And part of that's because like 1:52:43.960 --> 1:52:47.559 violent crime has dropped and like massively in Wisconsin and 1:52:47.680 --> 1:52:51.559 nationwide over the last year. And I do wonder the 1:52:51.640 --> 1:52:54.519 extent to which because Americans' views on crime are not 1:52:54.600 --> 1:52:57.080 based on how bad crime actually is. But I also 1:52:57.160 --> 1:53:01.280 wonder if people are start are like the degree to 1:53:01.320 --> 1:53:03.679 which that's a vote in concern for people is fading 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:06.920 because it has dropped so much. And I'll be curious 1:53:06.960 --> 1:53:09.479 to see if kind of Trump's strategy of hammering the 1:53:09.520 --> 1:53:12.639 Democrats because they're bad on crime is going to prove 1:53:12.680 --> 1:53:14.640 to be a serious misstep. 1:53:14.840 --> 1:53:17.839 Well, even Fox News has had to do recent segments 1:53:17.880 --> 1:53:20.200 talking about how there actually has been a drop in crime, 1:53:20.560 --> 1:53:24.479 even though Americans feel like it hasn't, which is quite 1:53:24.479 --> 1:53:28.680 funny little tidbit. We're all looking for the guy who 1:53:28.720 --> 1:53:31.080 did this moment. Now, I do want to get through 1:53:31.080 --> 1:53:33.120 a few more conviction numbers. I'm going to quote from 1:53:33.120 --> 1:53:36.519 politicals report on their own poll regarding the importance of 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:39.280 the conviction in people's vote. Quote, twenty two percent of 1:53:39.280 --> 1:53:42.160 respondents said the conviction is important to how they will 1:53:42.240 --> 1:53:44.519 vote and that it will make them less likely to 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:47.679 support Trump. Only six percent of respondents took the other 1:53:47.720 --> 1:53:49.960 side of the question, saying they are more likely to 1:53:49.960 --> 1:53:54.200 support A nearly identical negative effect showed up among independents, 1:53:54.320 --> 1:53:56.240 with twenty one percent saying they are less likely to 1:53:56.240 --> 1:53:59.920 support and five percent saying they are more likely unquote now. 1:54:00.360 --> 1:54:02.120 Of those who say the conviction is important to how 1:54:02.120 --> 1:54:05.320 they will vote, seven percent of Republicans say they are 1:54:05.520 --> 1:54:08.840 less likely to support Trump. So that's an interesting number, 1:54:09.479 --> 1:54:12.439 and only thirteen percent say they are more likely and like, 1:54:12.479 --> 1:54:14.040 come on, those people were always going to vote for 1:54:14.040 --> 1:54:17.240 Trump anyway. Forty percent of Democrats, of course, say that 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:20.800 they are less likely now. Twenty eight percent of Republicans 1:54:20.920 --> 1:54:23.599 say that the conviction makes them more likely to support Trump, 1:54:23.680 --> 1:54:25.960 but it won't affect their vote, and among those who 1:54:26.000 --> 1:54:28.160 said the conviction isn't important to how they will vote, 1:54:28.240 --> 1:54:31.240 forty percent said that it has basically no impact on 1:54:31.240 --> 1:54:34.640 their support of Trump. Most those people are independents now. 1:54:34.680 --> 1:54:37.200 Political also asked respondents if they thought the prosecution was 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:40.960 brought to help Joe Biden, and most around fifty one 1:54:40.960 --> 1:54:44.240 percent disagree with the claim, but forty three percent agreed 1:54:44.520 --> 1:54:47.720 and said that the case had probably been brought to 1:54:47.720 --> 1:54:51.240 help Biden, and these results are roughly similar among independents. 1:54:51.320 --> 1:54:54.840 So still most people don't think so, and there's people 1:54:54.840 --> 1:54:57.959 who have, you know, suspicions. Not not super surprising. 1:54:58.400 --> 1:54:58.560 Now. 1:54:58.640 --> 1:55:01.760 Political notes that these thre might be movable, though these 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:06.440 are not necessarily locked down opinions as quote, roughly a 1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:10.680 third of all responders and independence said that they still 1:55:10.680 --> 1:55:13.200 do not understand the details of the case. Well unquote, 1:55:13.600 --> 1:55:18.000 so glorious, those are not really set in stone. And 1:55:18.320 --> 1:55:21.200 Political also notes that there's a number of upcoming events 1:55:21.240 --> 1:55:24.600 and variables that could change of the public's opinion before November, 1:55:24.920 --> 1:55:27.160 you know, including all of the ongoing efforts by political 1:55:27.200 --> 1:55:31.040 operatives to influence people of the public perception of both 1:55:31.040 --> 1:55:33.880 the conviction and just you know, the election in general. 1:55:34.120 --> 1:55:35.879 The debates obviously too. 1:55:36.040 --> 1:55:39.000 The debates as well as Trump's sentencing in Manhattan on 1:55:39.080 --> 1:55:42.160 July eleventh, which could possibly you know, entail a period 1:55:42.160 --> 1:55:46.360 of incarceration. Probably not, but if it did, that would 1:55:46.680 --> 1:55:50.360 that would certainly impact impact these numbers. And also Manhattan 1:55:50.400 --> 1:55:54.200 Dish attorney Alvin Bragg's testimony before Congress on July twelfth. 1:55:54.520 --> 1:55:57.120 This this, this could impact the numbers you know regarding 1:55:57.440 --> 1:55:59.200 you know, how many people think this case is legit 1:55:59.360 --> 1:56:01.360 versus how much peace think is just purely like a 1:56:01.360 --> 1:56:04.880 political move. But still about half of adults do approve 1:56:04.920 --> 1:56:07.400 of Trump's conviction. The AP did a poll with the 1:56:07.520 --> 1:56:11.880 NORC a week after Trump's conviction, but before Hunter Biden 1:56:11.960 --> 1:56:14.920 was convicted on that federal gun case, and uslts seems 1:56:14.960 --> 1:56:17.520 more likely to support Trump's conviction than they are to disapprove, 1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:20.560 with at least forty eight percent saying they approve and 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:25.160 just twenty nine somewhat or strongly disapproving and twenty one 1:56:25.400 --> 1:56:29.160 you know, not approving or disapproving, to quote from the AP, 1:56:29.720 --> 1:56:33.240 Republicans are less united on the verdict than Democrats. Roughly 1:56:33.280 --> 1:56:37.320 six and ten Republicans disapprove, while fifteen percent approve the 1:56:37.360 --> 1:56:40.720 other to and ten neither approve nor disapprove. Overall, opinions 1:56:40.720 --> 1:56:43.720 on Trump have barely budged. About six and ten US 1:56:43.720 --> 1:56:46.760 adults have an unfavorable opinion of Trump, just in line 1:56:47.200 --> 1:56:50.640 from our findings in a poll conducted last February, four 1:56:50.720 --> 1:56:53.280 in ten have a favorable view of Trump. When also 1:56:53.440 --> 1:56:57.080 largely unchanged since February. The numbers are equally poor for Biden. 1:56:57.280 --> 1:57:00.200 For and ten US adults have a favorable view of 1:57:00.240 --> 1:57:03.040 the Democratic president, while six and ten have a negative 1:57:03.080 --> 1:57:03.920 one unquote. 1:57:04.480 --> 1:57:08.520 Yeah, this is very much unique in races that I 1:57:08.560 --> 1:57:11.800 can recall a race to the bottom, like who can alienate? 1:57:11.840 --> 1:57:13.840 Who will alienate less of the base? 1:57:14.280 --> 1:57:18.720 Right, Like, yeah, no, we Polls consistently are showing that 1:57:18.760 --> 1:57:23.880 there will be historically that there is historically low voter enthusiasm. 1:57:24.160 --> 1:57:28.160 Both candidates have very low favorability ratings, and an NBC 1:57:28.320 --> 1:57:31.280 poll found that sixty four percent of voters say that 1:57:31.320 --> 1:57:33.640 they are very interested in this year's election, which is 1:57:33.680 --> 1:57:37.879 a twenty year low, so, you know, not great numbers. 1:57:38.120 --> 1:57:41.280 And a new CBS poll found that among young Americans 1:57:41.320 --> 1:57:44.000 who did vote in twenty twenty, only three quarters to 1:57:44.040 --> 1:57:46.680 say that they'll definitely do so again. Now this this 1:57:46.760 --> 1:57:50.880 poll also does show that Trump's support among young voters 1:57:51.120 --> 1:57:53.120 has been almost unchanged since twenty twenty. 1:57:53.320 --> 1:57:57.280 Yeah, he's done about two percent better, which is fairly 1:57:57.320 --> 1:58:00.280 minimal considering how much Biden's lead is among that group. 1:58:00.560 --> 1:58:05.480 But overall, young voters do believe generally progressive values pretty consistently, 1:58:06.080 --> 1:58:07.960 including support for a ceasefire. 1:58:08.040 --> 1:58:09.720 And that's i mean, part of the reason why we 1:58:09.760 --> 1:58:13.720 may not see which could be catastrophic for Biden, because 1:58:14.160 --> 1:58:16.440 twenty twenty a lot of his win came in the 1:58:16.480 --> 1:58:19.000 fact that he did deliver so much of that, like 1:58:19.040 --> 1:58:22.000 so many young voters came out, turnout was so high, 1:58:22.120 --> 1:58:26.280 and they overwhelmingly supported Biden. There is also, i mean 1:58:26.360 --> 1:58:29.320 kind of a reason why that might not wind up mattering, 1:58:29.320 --> 1:58:33.200 which is where Biden I mentioned earlier. Biden does really 1:58:33.200 --> 1:58:36.240 well among likely voters, much better than he does among 1:58:36.280 --> 1:58:39.160 the general electorate. And this is part of a shift 1:58:39.400 --> 1:58:43.880 among white voters with degrees that has been We get 1:58:43.920 --> 1:58:46.360 a lot of talk and this has been significant, especially 1:58:46.360 --> 1:58:49.600 like Latino voters shifting towards the GOP has been a 1:58:49.640 --> 1:58:52.600 really important story too, but this one does not get 1:58:52.640 --> 1:58:55.160 talked about as much. In the four years since Biden 1:58:55.240 --> 1:58:58.640 took office, white men with degrees have shifted twenty four 1:58:58.680 --> 1:59:02.240 points towards Biden, and he has gained nineteen points with 1:59:02.520 --> 1:59:05.600 among white women with degrees, which is like a huge 1:59:05.640 --> 1:59:08.120 amount of his support. And also that's one of the 1:59:08.120 --> 1:59:11.640 groups that's likeliest to vote. Like the strength that Biden 1:59:11.680 --> 1:59:16.400 has gained among kind of middle of the road leaning 1:59:16.520 --> 1:59:20.560 conservative suburban voters is potentially going to be a cider 1:59:20.600 --> 1:59:21.200 in this election. 1:59:21.880 --> 1:59:24.360 Yeah, and according to The New York Times and Sienna, 1:59:24.520 --> 1:59:27.680 the polls do seem slightly skewed in Trump's favor actually 1:59:27.720 --> 1:59:31.000 this year, mostly by disenfranchised voters who may not participate 1:59:31.040 --> 1:59:33.640 in the upcoming election. And analysis they did found that 1:59:33.680 --> 1:59:36.320 Biden had led the last three of their polls among 1:59:36.400 --> 1:59:41.000 twenty twenty voters, but trailed among registered voters overall, which 1:59:41.040 --> 1:59:43.160 is basically exactly what you're saying. 1:59:43.320 --> 1:59:50.560 You know, Garrison, speaking of likely voters, are I don't know, 1:59:50.680 --> 1:59:52.880 that doesn't really lead. And here's the fucking ads. Look, 1:59:52.880 --> 1:59:54.520 you don't get you don't get a good one. Every 1:59:54.520 --> 1:59:56.200 time we do this, folks, there's too many. 1:59:56.200 --> 1:59:58.320 Are likely to listen to these ads. 1:59:58.320 --> 2:00:10.040 They're fine, So. 2:00:10.120 --> 2:00:10.840 We are back. 2:00:11.640 --> 2:00:16.960 Is polling actually useful? This actually useful anymore? The answer 2:00:17.000 --> 2:00:19.680 is kind of. But you know, people have gotten really 2:00:19.720 --> 2:00:22.000 really anti polling in recent years. You know, it's a 2:00:22.040 --> 2:00:25.200 twenty sixteen elections certainly contributed to that. Although yeah, if 2:00:25.240 --> 2:00:27.040 you look at the actual twenty sixteen polls, it's kind 2:00:27.080 --> 2:00:30.280 of it's kind of interesting. In twenty sixteen, Clinton generally 2:00:30.360 --> 2:00:33.480 pulled much higher than Trump for the duration of the race, 2:00:33.840 --> 2:00:36.200 though in late July the two were neck and neck, 2:00:36.480 --> 2:00:39.920 with the gap closing once again in late September and 2:00:40.080 --> 2:00:43.160 the week of the election, Trump was on average trailing 2:00:43.200 --> 2:00:46.640 by less than three point five percent behind, which is 2:00:46.800 --> 2:00:49.280 often in the margin of error for these polls, and 2:00:49.520 --> 2:00:53.240 pollsters usually consider something under three percent being a toss up. 2:00:53.400 --> 2:00:55.760 Now this is three point five percent, so still is 2:00:55.960 --> 2:00:58.400 it was trending towards Clinton, and there's there is reasons 2:00:58.400 --> 2:01:01.360 why in terms of their polling methodology that was flawed, 2:01:01.720 --> 2:01:04.160 But the polls were actually a bit closer than I 2:01:04.160 --> 2:01:07.320 think what public perception seems to remember of the twenty 2:01:07.360 --> 2:01:08.040 sixteen polls. 2:01:09.280 --> 2:01:13.600 Yes, and this is a part of why the public 2:01:13.760 --> 2:01:17.560 memory of twenty sixteen and to an extent, twenty twenty 2:01:17.680 --> 2:01:20.000 and to an extent every election is shown so bad 2:01:20.200 --> 2:01:23.760 is you can't emphasize this enough. People are dogshit and 2:01:23.960 --> 2:01:27.480 understanding what poles say, right. They are really bad at 2:01:27.560 --> 2:01:30.720 understanding uncertainty. One of the things that I hate to 2:01:30.800 --> 2:01:33.280 keep going back to the Nate silver Well, but I 2:01:33.320 --> 2:01:36.120 think he's a fascinating case study. And one of the 2:01:36.160 --> 2:01:39.440 things he pointed out after twenty sixteen. The minute you 2:01:39.480 --> 2:01:42.080 have a forecast where there's less certainty, people don't like that. 2:01:42.120 --> 2:01:43.760 The minute you have a forecast that doesn't have a 2:01:43.760 --> 2:01:46.560 Democrat winning, they don't like that very much. And it's 2:01:46.560 --> 2:01:50.000 to point out, like his he kind of started to 2:01:50.040 --> 2:01:52.520 become a heel as soon as he started showing that 2:01:52.680 --> 2:01:56.640 like Trump had a real shot at winning, and as 2:01:56.800 --> 2:01:59.560 his as his forecast continue to show kind of weakness 2:01:59.600 --> 2:02:02.840 among the Democrats, it got people angrier and angrier. And 2:02:02.840 --> 2:02:05.480 that's most of what makes people determine whether or not 2:02:05.600 --> 2:02:08.960 something is a credible source on the election. And that's 2:02:09.040 --> 2:02:11.080 kind of why a lot of this is like a 2:02:11.160 --> 2:02:16.120 doomed effort, is because people consider, you know, an expert 2:02:16.160 --> 2:02:18.640 credible if they are saying something they want to hear, 2:02:18.680 --> 2:02:21.360 because most of what people want in terms of election 2:02:21.480 --> 2:02:24.200 polling is to feel reassured that things are going to 2:02:24.200 --> 2:02:28.880 be okay, right, and that's that's your kind of It's 2:02:28.920 --> 2:02:32.320 always like a confirmation bias game. And it's also one 2:02:32.360 --> 2:02:35.240 of those things where, like the instant you do well, 2:02:35.400 --> 2:02:38.360 if you are legitimately a rigorous, you know, expert, and 2:02:38.400 --> 2:02:41.960 you predict things correctly, you're going to suddenly be this 2:02:42.080 --> 2:02:44.560 focus of so much media attention and have so much 2:02:44.600 --> 2:02:46.920 money and job offers thrown your way that it will 2:02:46.960 --> 2:02:49.640 inherently drive you mad, which is part of why again, 2:02:50.000 --> 2:02:52.480 I am predicting a twenty nine percent chance that things 2:02:52.520 --> 2:02:54.720 are basically the way they wear in twenty twenty, so 2:02:54.760 --> 2:02:57.280 I can get all that sweet, sweet CNN money, you know, 2:02:57.560 --> 2:03:00.480 if I wind up being right. I am curious, Scaris 2:03:00.520 --> 2:03:03.960 and kind of in that line because as our as 2:03:04.000 --> 2:03:06.880 our official poll expert, you kind of came into this, 2:03:07.440 --> 2:03:09.960 I don't think with a strong set of biases about 2:03:09.960 --> 2:03:12.720 what would happen when you actually started drilling down into 2:03:12.720 --> 2:03:15.080 the numbers, did that change it all your impression of 2:03:15.080 --> 2:03:16.480 what was going on this election? 2:03:17.200 --> 2:03:21.040 I think I thought that the numbers for Biden would 2:03:21.080 --> 2:03:24.480 be slightly worse. I think that's kind of the general feeling, 2:03:24.560 --> 2:03:26.000 and that has been you know, what the numbers have 2:03:26.040 --> 2:03:27.880 kind of looked like in my cursory glances the past 2:03:27.880 --> 2:03:31.600 few months. But looking more into kind of polling science, 2:03:31.680 --> 2:03:36.200 what these pollsters are are saying the gap is usually 2:03:36.240 --> 2:03:38.640 within this three percent, that it feels like it's going 2:03:38.680 --> 2:03:41.400 to be a very close election. It'll be much closer 2:03:41.400 --> 2:03:44.560 than it was in twenty twenty. Poles thought that twenty 2:03:44.560 --> 2:03:47.839 twenty would be a much much more obvious win for Biden. 2:03:47.960 --> 2:03:49.840 It was, it was, it was a closer election than 2:03:49.840 --> 2:03:52.360 what people thought. But this I think will be even 2:03:52.560 --> 2:03:55.280 even closer. So it's it's gonna be it's gonna be 2:03:55.280 --> 2:03:56.960 a tricky one. We're going to be kind of on 2:03:57.000 --> 2:03:58.160 the edge of our seat come. 2:03:58.240 --> 2:04:02.800 From election night, which is what no one wants to hear, right, No, 2:04:02.920 --> 2:04:04.920 especially since you have this, You have a lot of 2:04:04.920 --> 2:04:08.640 people who want to hear Biden is doomed because they have, 2:04:08.760 --> 2:04:11.640 for generally good reasons, come to despise Biden over the 2:04:11.680 --> 2:04:14.040 last totally four years, and they just want to know 2:04:14.120 --> 2:04:17.880 that like the things they're angry about matter, And the 2:04:17.960 --> 2:04:20.200 thing that I all I can say to those people 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:23.240 is like, I don't know that anything matters. And I 2:04:23.320 --> 2:04:25.600 do think there's a really good chance. I think this 2:04:25.680 --> 2:04:26.880 is basically a coin flip. 2:04:27.840 --> 2:04:31.480 Yeah, And I think you know, polling is is going 2:04:31.520 --> 2:04:33.760 to look very different this year because Trump is not 2:04:33.840 --> 2:04:36.440 the incumbent. I think there's a lot of other factors 2:04:36.480 --> 2:04:39.760 that are contributing to the polls, and pollsters have adjusted 2:04:39.880 --> 2:04:43.040 a lot since twenty sixteen, to make sure that more 2:04:43.080 --> 2:04:46.680 Trump support is accounted for both in twenty twenty and 2:04:46.760 --> 2:04:50.960 in twenty sixteen. The error did not come from overestimating 2:04:51.040 --> 2:04:54.320 the support of Clinton and Biden. It came from underestimating 2:04:54.360 --> 2:04:58.400 Trump's support. And this has been fixed fixed for via 2:04:58.760 --> 2:05:02.240 a number a number of methods. You know, there's certain 2:05:02.440 --> 2:05:05.320 theories people have had, like the quote unquote shy Trump 2:05:05.400 --> 2:05:08.680 voter theory, which is kind of largely disputed, of saying 2:05:08.720 --> 2:05:09.160 that you know. 2:05:09.720 --> 2:05:12.839 People certainly by this fucking point. 2:05:12.360 --> 2:05:15.240 Yes, no, saying that people who like support Trump are 2:05:15.240 --> 2:05:18.360 too scared to tell pollsters that they support Trump, quite 2:05:18.560 --> 2:05:22.800 quite silly. It's essentially it's essentially blaming, blaming, like pull 2:05:22.960 --> 2:05:26.680 errors on people just lying to polsters because they're too nervous. So, 2:05:26.840 --> 2:05:29.200 I don't know, there's a lot of other stuff we have. 2:05:29.400 --> 2:05:33.760 We have adjusted for white, non college educated voters, you know, 2:05:33.840 --> 2:05:36.240 because people who have a college degree are more likely 2:05:36.320 --> 2:05:39.000 to respond to polls. So all this does get adjusted for, 2:05:39.160 --> 2:05:41.560 especially since twenty sixteen, because that was the main cause 2:05:41.880 --> 2:05:43.800 of the polls kind of being fucked up that year. 2:05:44.120 --> 2:05:47.440 So what exactly happened in twenty twenty, Then if these 2:05:47.440 --> 2:05:51.120 things like the not in college vote and the shy 2:05:51.240 --> 2:05:55.480 Trump voter theory were sort of adjusted for well, a 2:05:55.520 --> 2:05:58.800 few things happened. The pandemic one, you know, made certain 2:05:58.840 --> 2:06:02.600 pulling things. Ure's a little bit unique. The election also 2:06:02.640 --> 2:06:05.480 featured the highest number of voter turnout in decades, something 2:06:05.480 --> 2:06:08.360 that we're probably not expected to see in twenty twenty four. 2:06:08.960 --> 2:06:11.200 In twenty twenty, the national polls were too favorable to 2:06:11.240 --> 2:06:15.200 Biden by three point nine points, state polls by four 2:06:15.240 --> 2:06:18.320 point three. I'm going to read a report from the 2:06:18.320 --> 2:06:23.040 American Association for Public Opinion Research analyzing twenty twenty election 2:06:23.160 --> 2:06:23.920 poll errors. 2:06:24.000 --> 2:06:24.480 Quote. 2:06:24.840 --> 2:06:27.680 If the voter's most supportive of Trump were least likely 2:06:27.720 --> 2:06:30.400 to participate in polls, then the polling error may be 2:06:30.480 --> 2:06:34.640 explained as follows. Self identified Republicans who choose to respond 2:06:34.640 --> 2:06:37.840 to polls are more likely to support Democrats, and those 2:06:37.840 --> 2:06:40.760 who choose not to respond to polls are more likely 2:06:40.800 --> 2:06:44.720 to support Republicans. Even if the correct percentage of self 2:06:44.720 --> 2:06:48.760 identified Republicans were polled, differences in the Republicans who did 2:06:48.760 --> 2:06:54.240 and did not respond could produce the observed polling error unquote. 2:06:54.320 --> 2:06:56.360 If this was indeed the issue, it was probably made 2:06:56.360 --> 2:06:59.800 worse by Trump in twenty twenty by being very disparaging 2:06:59.840 --> 2:07:03.800 to polls, making his base probably less likely to honestly 2:07:03.880 --> 2:07:07.560 engage with polling metrics, and both in twenty sixteen and 2:07:07.600 --> 2:07:10.920 twenty twenty there was large large post mortems among the 2:07:10.960 --> 2:07:14.520 polling community trying to figure out how to improve, and 2:07:15.280 --> 2:07:19.440 twenty twenty two's polls were more accurate than any election 2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:24.080 since nineteen ninety eight, with almost no bias towards either party. 2:07:24.560 --> 2:07:27.800 So that is a good side in terms of the 2:07:27.840 --> 2:07:29.800 accuracy of polls. 2:07:29.840 --> 2:07:31.839 This not being nonsense, Yeah. 2:07:31.880 --> 2:07:36.680 Correct, So a poster named Nathaniel Rackitch said, quote, polls 2:07:36.680 --> 2:07:39.000 true utility isn't telling us who will win, but rather 2:07:39.120 --> 2:07:41.520 in roughly how close a race is and therefore how 2:07:41.560 --> 2:07:45.000 confident we should be in the outcome. Historically, candidate's leading 2:07:45.000 --> 2:07:46.800 polls by at least twenty points have won in ninety 2:07:46.840 --> 2:07:49.160 nine percent of the time, but candidate's leading polls may 2:07:49.240 --> 2:07:51.440 less than three points have won just fifty five percent 2:07:51.520 --> 2:07:54.640 of the time. Unquote, And that kind of lines up 2:07:54.640 --> 2:07:57.440 with our current situation, right, Biden was even though the 2:07:57.440 --> 2:08:00.200 polls were slightly skewed towards Biden in twenty twenty, he 2:08:00.240 --> 2:08:03.080 was so far ahead that most of the polls in 2:08:03.160 --> 2:08:05.240 terms of saying who would win, we're still correct because 2:08:05.240 --> 2:08:07.360 Biden was just so far ahead this time. That will 2:08:07.400 --> 2:08:09.080 not be the case. That's not that's not what the 2:08:09.080 --> 2:08:10.720 polls are going to say. The polls are going to 2:08:10.720 --> 2:08:13.440 show this being a much closer race, and that I 2:08:13.440 --> 2:08:15.680 think that is what it's going to be come come November. 2:08:15.720 --> 2:08:17.800 So yeah, that's kind of that's kind of the low 2:08:17.840 --> 2:08:22.320 down of the current the current polling situation. I'll be 2:08:22.360 --> 2:08:24.120 curious to see, you know, what the numbers are post 2:08:24.120 --> 2:08:27.120 debate and especially after the sentencing in July. 2:08:27.800 --> 2:08:30.800 Yeah, we'll see. And I should note that Nate Silver 2:08:31.160 --> 2:08:35.640 just released his official forecast today and it's it's almost 2:08:35.720 --> 2:08:38.760 the opposite of that. We're German Man, who gave Biden 2:08:38.760 --> 2:08:41.840 a seventy five percent chance of winning, Nate gives Trump 2:08:41.920 --> 2:08:44.640 a sixty five percent chance of winning. So we are 2:08:44.640 --> 2:08:47.840 going to see which of the election pundits who make 2:08:47.880 --> 2:08:51.680 their entire living off of gambling on elections winds up 2:08:51.720 --> 2:08:54.160 getting to be fetted on all of the talk shows 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:57.200 in like January of twenty twenty five. That'll be That's 2:08:57.240 --> 2:09:00.560 why I'll toss up honestly, thereal'll toss up a helmet 2:09:00.640 --> 2:09:03.680 versus Nate Baby, who's gonna win? I kind of think 2:09:03.680 --> 2:09:23.840 they both might be common. Oh yeah, that wasn't the 2:09:23.880 --> 2:09:26.960 opening of the podcast, or unless it was. I guess 2:09:26.960 --> 2:09:29.360 it was because we were recording Welcome to It could 2:09:29.400 --> 2:09:34.120 happen here, Harrison. I had to open an episode about 2:09:34.120 --> 2:09:37.560 a terrible, terrible piece of voice acting history with some 2:09:37.680 --> 2:09:39.640 horrible voice acting of my own. It was the only 2:09:39.720 --> 2:09:40.120 right way. 2:09:40.320 --> 2:09:42.360 It's true, it's true, but there has been some really 2:09:42.440 --> 2:09:47.320 bad voice acting going around lately. Yes, oh boy, So 2:09:48.080 --> 2:09:49.760 do you know what we're gonna talk about today, Robert. 2:09:50.160 --> 2:09:53.280 We're gonna talk about the South Park of X. 2:09:54.360 --> 2:09:56.400 And I know what you're all wondering, what the fuck 2:09:56.480 --> 2:09:59.720 is X? Did you guys? Is that a placeholder? Did 2:09:59.720 --> 2:10:02.400 you like type in a placeholder because you forgot the 2:10:02.520 --> 2:10:06.800 name of what this is? The South Park of or whatever? No, no, no, 2:10:07.000 --> 2:10:08.200 we're talking about Twitter. 2:10:09.360 --> 2:10:14.120 We are talking about the first animated sit slash calm 2:10:14.640 --> 2:10:19.120 on X Slash Twitter, titled The New Norm Show. Not 2:10:19.240 --> 2:10:21.720 to be confused with the twenty twenty two low budget 2:10:21.720 --> 2:10:25.120 movie The New Norm. This is a new animated project 2:10:25.200 --> 2:10:31.320 from the Great Minds over at Dave Rubin Incorporated. Yeah, 2:10:31.640 --> 2:10:36.160 was so bad but also so insightful that I did 2:10:36.160 --> 2:10:38.680 a whole bunch of drugs and wrote about two thousand 2:10:38.720 --> 2:10:44.320 words about this project and uncovered some kind of shocking 2:10:44.360 --> 2:10:47.840 things that we will slowly get into. I first just 2:10:47.880 --> 2:10:50.920 want to go over the mini pilot itself, because right 2:10:50.960 --> 2:10:52.760 now the only thing that's out is like this three 2:10:52.840 --> 2:10:56.200 minute or so little mini pilot, And we'll get into 2:10:56.240 --> 2:10:58.000 why this is the only thing that's out right now, 2:10:58.360 --> 2:11:00.600 but I'm first just want to do kind of like 2:11:00.800 --> 2:11:02.520 a short play by play, and it will be short 2:11:02.520 --> 2:11:05.320 because it again, it's only three minutes. Yeah, of what 2:11:05.920 --> 2:11:10.640 happens in this new perspective animated sitcom that they want 2:11:10.680 --> 2:11:14.720 to air on Twitter dot com now known as x Yes. So, 2:11:15.240 --> 2:11:16.920 I think the first thing you need to know about it, 2:11:16.960 --> 2:11:19.240 you know, besides you know, the Dave rubenness of it all, 2:11:19.520 --> 2:11:22.160 it looks like early two thousands flash animation, like really 2:11:22.200 --> 2:11:26.920 bad early two thousands flash animation. It's not good. 2:11:27.720 --> 2:11:30.320 It's not good. None of the characters can like really 2:11:30.400 --> 2:11:35.440 express things, and the perspective is always a little bit off. Yeah, 2:11:35.680 --> 2:11:39.160 it looks like something like a moderately competent person could 2:11:39.160 --> 2:11:42.200 have animated in this course of an afternoon if the 2:11:42.240 --> 2:11:45.440 people paying them did not actually want anything that looked 2:11:45.560 --> 2:11:46.000 very good. 2:11:46.160 --> 2:11:48.160 Well, and I think that is kind of what happened. 2:11:48.360 --> 2:11:50.840 They posted one video showing the animating process, and it 2:11:50.840 --> 2:11:52.400 does look like this one person did it in like 2:11:52.440 --> 2:11:56.040 a day. So anyway, it starts with an older man 2:11:56.120 --> 2:11:59.080 sitting in a living room chair scratching at an ankle monitor. 2:11:59.520 --> 2:12:01.480 He reaches for a beer, only to find that it's 2:12:01.520 --> 2:12:05.240 been wokefied with rainbow packaging. The man reacts in horror, 2:12:05.520 --> 2:12:09.680 and his more liberal daughter remarks progress, it's the new norm, 2:12:10.160 --> 2:12:13.280 and then a pandering a country music theme song plays, 2:12:13.280 --> 2:12:15.280 which we will we will play for you later just 2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:16.120 because it's so bad. 2:12:16.560 --> 2:12:19.560 We're going to have to. I want to start just 2:12:19.920 --> 2:12:23.400 because this is the first shot of the episode and 2:12:23.440 --> 2:12:25.280 it was the first thing in the episode that made 2:12:25.320 --> 2:12:28.640 me very angry. And it's how small his feet are, like, 2:12:29.600 --> 2:12:31.040 especially if you're going to have. 2:12:31.760 --> 2:12:33.320 The fact rob Lyfield feet. 2:12:33.840 --> 2:12:37.200 He's got the rob Lyfield feet. And it's this is 2:12:37.320 --> 2:12:40.280 particularly a problem because the ankle monitor doesn't look like 2:12:40.360 --> 2:12:42.240 it's going to be a one off joke, because he 2:12:42.280 --> 2:12:45.200 doesn't just have an ankle monitor he has like an 2:12:45.280 --> 2:12:47.960 evil Amazon alexa that looks a little bit like it's 2:12:47.960 --> 2:12:51.080 been it's gotten some howl nine thousand DNA in it. Yes, 2:12:51.080 --> 2:12:53.840 that every time he says something that's not woke enough, 2:12:54.080 --> 2:12:56.200 it it yells at him, right. 2:12:56.080 --> 2:12:57.840 It is offensive? Offensive? 2:12:58.120 --> 2:13:03.560 Yeah, yeah, the fantasy progressive government that is in charge 2:13:03.680 --> 2:13:07.200 in his in this cartoon world has forced him to 2:13:07.240 --> 2:13:10.000 wear an ankle monitor because he's not woke enough. And 2:13:10.040 --> 2:13:11.920 so I'm guessing that's going to be a recurrent bit. 2:13:12.000 --> 2:13:15.400 And if has this sension ankle monitor is a recurrent bit, 2:13:15.840 --> 2:13:18.680 his feet shouldn't look like the ankle monitor should always 2:13:18.720 --> 2:13:21.320 be falling off of them. No, it's so loose. It's 2:13:21.360 --> 2:13:25.880 so really bad animation, right, Like, I'm not even saying 2:13:25.920 --> 2:13:28.320 that's a good bit, But if that's your bit, you 2:13:28.440 --> 2:13:31.520 have to actually design the characters to sell the bit, 2:13:31.600 --> 2:13:33.920 as opposed to me constantly thinking how is that fucking 2:13:33.920 --> 2:13:36.960 ankle monitor staying on his goddamn ankle anyway, whatever. 2:13:36.680 --> 2:13:38.520 The character was not designed with the ankle monitor in mind. 2:13:38.560 --> 2:13:41.760 That was a later edition, so definitely. After the theme song, 2:13:42.200 --> 2:13:45.320 the man addresses the audience, he says, I'm the old 2:13:45.400 --> 2:13:47.240 norm I want normal beer. 2:13:48.440 --> 2:13:49.120 God damn it. 2:13:50.040 --> 2:13:52.080 And I just want to point out this is like 2:13:52.120 --> 2:13:55.960 the only character that gets an introduction. We don't really 2:13:56.000 --> 2:13:58.680 learned almost anyone else's names, except for one other character, 2:13:59.680 --> 2:14:02.320 which he's just great, great for like a pilot. Anyway, 2:14:02.440 --> 2:14:04.920 So he steps towards his front door and the ankle 2:14:04.960 --> 2:14:08.400 monitor starts beeping. He blames his liberal daughter for being 2:14:08.440 --> 2:14:11.680 put on house arrest for quote unquote threatening the school board, 2:14:12.040 --> 2:14:14.000 which he says he did because the school was quote 2:14:14.080 --> 2:14:17.400 brainwashing kids into thinking girls aren't girls and men aren't men. 2:14:18.400 --> 2:14:22.040 His daughter says, sometimes they're neither or both, or dressed 2:14:22.080 --> 2:14:25.600 like dogs. Anyway, his wife comes home. 2:14:25.880 --> 2:14:30.200 Oh god, yeah, there's a real furry obsession in this 2:14:30.320 --> 2:14:33.600 EPI this show. I guess we'll talk about that later too, because. 2:14:33.320 --> 2:14:35.280 This was birth years ago. This is not like a 2:14:35.320 --> 2:14:39.760 modern current take on WOKESM. But his wife comes home 2:14:40.040 --> 2:14:43.240 and with her is someone wearing a COVID mask sporting 2:14:43.280 --> 2:14:45.760 a pink mohawk. And here I'm going to play our 2:14:45.760 --> 2:14:46.320 first clip. 2:14:48.200 --> 2:14:49.680 What's that worrying? 2:14:50.920 --> 2:14:55.120 Actually that is one of my pronouns. Also, they them 2:14:55.200 --> 2:14:56.040 and me? 2:14:56.880 --> 2:14:58.760 Your non binary? 2:14:59.440 --> 2:15:00.680 How do you know that word? 2:15:00.880 --> 2:15:01.920 I learned it in school. 2:15:02.240 --> 2:15:03.680 That's why I'm locked up. 2:15:04.280 --> 2:15:04.560 Norm. 2:15:04.680 --> 2:15:07.040 The judge agreed to conditional parole. 2:15:07.360 --> 2:15:08.560 What condition? 2:15:10.360 --> 2:15:12.720 Where is my room? 2:15:12.760 --> 2:15:14.160 That's saying here? 2:15:15.000 --> 2:15:17.760 Chaz is part of a new government program. 2:15:17.360 --> 2:15:23.000 To re educate homophobic, transphobic, racist Charlie. 2:15:23.040 --> 2:15:24.600 Finally someone normal. 2:15:25.960 --> 2:15:29.120 I don't understand your word? 2:15:29.920 --> 2:15:30.480 Did that? 2:15:31.040 --> 2:15:32.040 Just black whisper? 2:15:32.360 --> 2:15:34.640 You're his friend and boss. 2:15:35.120 --> 2:15:38.360 So something that isn't fully conveyed just through the sound 2:15:38.640 --> 2:15:40.560 is that when the daughter finds out that this new 2:15:40.560 --> 2:15:43.040 person is non binary, she gets like big, big, like 2:15:43.160 --> 2:15:43.800 lovey eyes. 2:15:44.680 --> 2:15:44.960 Yeah. 2:15:44.960 --> 2:15:49.080 And the black boss character, he is played by failed 2:15:49.200 --> 2:15:52.000 politician Larry Elder, and he's my. 2:15:52.000 --> 2:15:58.879 God, that's Larry Elder. Yes, Oh that's funny. That's so funny. 2:15:59.200 --> 2:16:04.760 He's just there to show that black people like Norm, right, yes, exactly, 2:16:04.840 --> 2:16:08.400 that the progressives actually are racist for not liking Norm 2:16:08.440 --> 2:16:10.520 because the only black person they're going to put in 2:16:10.560 --> 2:16:12.960 this show thinks that he's rad. It's just a normal 2:16:13.000 --> 2:16:15.280 thing that you do if you're a right wing hack 2:16:15.360 --> 2:16:19.240 making a low budget cartoon. He is wearing, by the way, 2:16:19.320 --> 2:16:22.360 a Washington Redskins hat and shirt, and his. 2:16:22.400 --> 2:16:25.480 Shirt discontinued four years ago. 2:16:25.680 --> 2:16:28.800 Yeah, and his first his opening line in the show 2:16:28.880 --> 2:16:31.160 is him coming in and saying, I come over here 2:16:31.200 --> 2:16:32.280 to escape woke. 2:16:32.720 --> 2:16:33.000 Yes. 2:16:33.480 --> 2:16:36.040 Yeah. One thing I do think is interesting is that 2:16:36.120 --> 2:16:39.959 both this character, because Larry Elder makes a note that 2:16:40.040 --> 2:16:42.879 like his son is about to transition and is at 2:16:43.000 --> 2:16:45.240 least non binary, they don't really know what any of 2:16:45.240 --> 2:16:47.160 this means. So a little bit of the script is 2:16:47.240 --> 2:16:50.160 unclear as to what these kids actually how they identify. 2:16:50.840 --> 2:16:53.760 And obviously Norm's daughter is I don't know if she's 2:16:53.800 --> 2:16:57.879 non binary or just like into a like generally queer, 2:16:57.920 --> 2:17:01.320 but like that is the impression you're left with. And again, 2:17:01.640 --> 2:17:05.039 if you actually were someone who was kind of conservative, 2:17:05.160 --> 2:17:09.000 conservative sympathetic, like Mike Judge making like a cartoon, you 2:17:09.040 --> 2:17:11.720 can actually get some mileage out of the accepting the 2:17:11.760 --> 2:17:14.760 idea that like, Okay, you've got these curmudgeonly older people 2:17:15.000 --> 2:17:18.240 and you've got their kids who are like way more 2:17:18.320 --> 2:17:21.040 open about this kind of stuff, and there's there's there's 2:17:21.120 --> 2:17:23.880 room for plots as King of the Hill did pretty 2:17:23.879 --> 2:17:28.600 well that kind of lampoon the culture in general, but 2:17:29.120 --> 2:17:32.320 it requires a little more self awareness. Like again, if 2:17:32.360 --> 2:17:34.760 there was a little bit you might wonder, like, what 2:17:34.800 --> 2:17:37.640 are we saying if we're the people making this right 2:17:37.640 --> 2:17:40.720 wing piece of propaganda that all of the young people 2:17:41.000 --> 2:17:43.720 feel very differently about gender than their parents. 2:17:44.040 --> 2:17:48.360 Well, yeah, that's why Norm keeps saying, I'm the old Norm. 2:17:48.520 --> 2:17:50.960 I want to bear. And the show was called The 2:17:51.080 --> 2:17:53.600 New Norm, not to be confused with the nineteen ninety 2:17:53.640 --> 2:17:57.320 nine ABC sympcom storing Norm MacDonald called it the Norm Shows. 2:17:57.360 --> 2:17:59.360 It's literally right, it's literally in the name. It's about 2:17:59.360 --> 2:18:03.000 you know how these people cannot cannot accept that times 2:18:03.280 --> 2:18:07.960 change and they slowly get outdated social beliefs. Anyway, every 2:18:08.000 --> 2:18:11.080 single time that Norm addresses the non binary character, referring 2:18:11.080 --> 2:18:15.840 to them as pronoun or that his little AI Amazon 2:18:15.879 --> 2:18:19.959 assistant just bleeps out offensive. Offensive. 2:18:20.400 --> 2:18:23.680 Jazz is here to re educate Norm. 2:18:23.600 --> 2:18:25.320 In non bonary studies. 2:18:27.320 --> 2:18:28.840 I'm allergic to dogs. 2:18:29.560 --> 2:18:30.080 It's okay. 2:18:30.280 --> 2:18:34.040 Billy is an emotional support dog and non binary. 2:18:34.520 --> 2:18:36.680 Oh okay, then good dog. 2:18:37.440 --> 2:18:40.960 Just amazing voice acting in that cliff and with a 2:18:41.120 --> 2:18:43.520 helpful laugh track, so you know what is a joke 2:18:43.560 --> 2:18:46.599 and when you're supposed to laugh, which is so embarrassing 2:18:46.640 --> 2:18:49.320 for an animated sycom to put on a laugh track, 2:18:49.680 --> 2:18:52.720 like oh my god, oh my god. 2:18:53.040 --> 2:18:58.160 It smacks of desperation because nobody really liked nobody misses 2:18:58.240 --> 2:18:58.920 laugh tracks. 2:18:59.680 --> 2:19:02.520 Laugh tracks are like if you have a live studio audience, 2:19:02.680 --> 2:19:04.800 you know, a laugh track kind of like makes sense. 2:19:05.280 --> 2:19:07.520 This is this is an animated sitcom. It's like if 2:19:07.520 --> 2:19:09.360 there's a laugh track on like Rick and Morty or 2:19:09.400 --> 2:19:11.440 like the Simpsons, like what the fuck are you doing? 2:19:12.040 --> 2:19:12.640 Yeah? 2:19:12.680 --> 2:19:15.119 Anyway, The two men sit down to watch sports, and 2:19:15.240 --> 2:19:18.800 Larry Elder laments that a non binary person is present 2:19:18.879 --> 2:19:21.800 in the room and starts complaining about his child. 2:19:22.200 --> 2:19:25.959 I come here to get away from woke trouble at home. 2:19:26.640 --> 2:19:30.640 Ah my boy or whatever it calls themselves now is 2:19:30.680 --> 2:19:36.840 thinking about transitioning that try Regina transitioning to what. 2:19:37.160 --> 2:19:41.640 Another humble whatever it calls them theself now amazing pronoun 2:19:41.720 --> 2:19:45.920 usage another fumble now. Norm tosses the gay beer to Chaz, 2:19:46.080 --> 2:19:47.640 the non binary character. 2:19:47.360 --> 2:19:49.600 Of Jazz, Uh Chaz. 2:19:50.080 --> 2:19:52.959 Chaz fumbles the catch and says, and that's not. 2:19:53.040 --> 2:19:56.240 Even that's not a gay zoomer name. Chazz is like 2:19:57.080 --> 2:20:03.039 something like, that's that's gen x Chazz totally yeah, well. 2:20:02.879 --> 2:20:05.800 Again because this is all made by gen x people. 2:20:06.240 --> 2:20:07.640 Yeah, exactly, Yes. 2:20:07.959 --> 2:20:10.160 Chaz fumbles the catch and says that they can't drink 2:20:10.200 --> 2:20:13.280 because they're not twenty one, and Larry Elder replies, y'all 2:20:13.320 --> 2:20:15.440 influence my boy and to cut off his junk, but 2:20:15.560 --> 2:20:18.680 draw the line at beer, and then Chaz hides behind 2:20:18.720 --> 2:20:22.920 the couch to call upper level government operatives who are 2:20:22.920 --> 2:20:25.840 advising them on this re education assignment. 2:20:27.360 --> 2:20:27.760 I got it. 2:20:28.000 --> 2:20:29.760 Before we get into this, I want to start with 2:20:29.800 --> 2:20:32.520 what doesn't make sense about that bit, which is that 2:20:32.879 --> 2:20:35.640 if Chaz was straight edge, right, and they were kind 2:20:35.640 --> 2:20:38.320 of chickin, if they actually knew anything about like the 2:20:38.400 --> 2:20:41.000 real sort of culturals kind of divides that are coming 2:20:41.040 --> 2:20:43.680 in around gen Z and gen Alfa, they could have 2:20:43.680 --> 2:20:45.680 made a point that like, yeah, this generation of kids 2:20:46.080 --> 2:20:49.120 doesn't get drunk and do drugs the way like millennials did, 2:20:49.160 --> 2:20:52.760 and that's an actual like cultural cleavage point. But Chaz 2:20:52.840 --> 2:20:55.879 is not straight edge. Chas is just saying I cannot 2:20:56.000 --> 2:20:57.519 legally drink beer. 2:20:57.680 --> 2:20:59.920 Which right, no gay person has ever. 2:20:59.800 --> 2:21:01.119 Seen, which no game. 2:21:01.440 --> 2:21:04.600 But it like the fact that unless unless they're straight edge, Yeah. 2:21:04.400 --> 2:21:06.440 Larry Elder then comes in and says like, oh, this 2:21:06.560 --> 2:21:09.640 is a characteristic but it wasn't like a characteristic of 2:21:09.640 --> 2:21:12.320 you queer gen z kids. But the queer gen Z 2:21:12.480 --> 2:21:15.000 kid did not express that as like a characteristic of 2:21:15.040 --> 2:21:18.480 his identity. He was just stating this is illegal. 2:21:18.600 --> 2:21:20.600 Because it's illegal. Yeah, very yeah. 2:21:20.640 --> 2:21:22.480 Anyway, anyway, when. 2:21:22.480 --> 2:21:25.520 Chaz is conference calling with this this upper level government 2:21:25.600 --> 2:21:28.080 we have, we have this general in like a in 2:21:28.120 --> 2:21:30.800 like a kink dog mask who barks, and there's a 2:21:30.840 --> 2:21:34.160 trans woman admiral who says, find a way to break him, 2:21:34.400 --> 2:21:39.080 maybe we can fix the country. I believe the admiral 2:21:39.200 --> 2:21:43.080 is a really transphobic character of US Assistant Secretary for 2:21:43.160 --> 2:21:47.039 Health Rachel Levine. And yeah, it's not even a good character. 2:21:47.080 --> 2:21:48.960 It's just it's just it doesn't look like at all 2:21:49.280 --> 2:21:49.560 there is. 2:21:49.600 --> 2:21:54.120 There's also another another character which Robert identified as a 2:21:54.200 --> 2:21:58.240 possible hate crime and and tasked me with locating who 2:21:58.280 --> 2:22:01.160 this person is. And I leave with about one hundred 2:22:01.200 --> 2:22:05.400 percent certainty that this is a character of Sam Brinton, 2:22:06.080 --> 2:22:08.720 who was appointed the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Spent Fuel 2:22:08.760 --> 2:22:10.760 and Waste Disposition in the. 2:22:10.720 --> 2:22:12.840 Office Nuclear Energy. Are you kidding me? 2:22:13.000 --> 2:22:14.000 Apartment of Energy? 2:22:14.200 --> 2:22:14.440 Now? 2:22:14.640 --> 2:22:19.280 Ah, these people are so fucking conservative social media brain, 2:22:19.400 --> 2:22:21.200 what are you fucking come on? 2:22:21.760 --> 2:22:24.959 Brinton may be well known to some of our listeners 2:22:25.280 --> 2:22:28.320 as being let go in late twenty twenty two after 2:22:28.440 --> 2:22:31.960 being linked to a series of airport luggage thefts. One 2:22:31.959 --> 2:22:35.800 of the funniest things that's ever happened. This person could 2:22:35.840 --> 2:22:39.640 not stop stealing luggage from airports so much that they 2:22:39.640 --> 2:22:41.520 got fired from the Department of Energy. 2:22:42.200 --> 2:22:42.959 That's amazing. 2:22:43.280 --> 2:22:46.560 This this goes back to like twenty eighteen years. God, 2:22:46.600 --> 2:22:50.960 there's funny years of airport It's so funny. But again, 2:22:51.200 --> 2:22:53.320 if this was a good comedy thing, they would have 2:22:53.360 --> 2:22:55.520 some kind of bit like maybe maybe they would be 2:22:55.520 --> 2:22:57.120 holding like a like a like a you know, like 2:22:57.440 --> 2:22:59.680 a collection of luggage. But no, they're just they're they're 2:22:59.680 --> 2:23:02.120 just they're just standing behind the Progress Pride flight Like 2:23:02.160 --> 2:23:03.200 that's it. Like it's not funny. 2:23:03.320 --> 2:23:06.160 Yeah, because again, because the actual funny thing about this 2:23:06.200 --> 2:23:09.160 would be to have like your government character be someone 2:23:09.200 --> 2:23:11.440 at the Department of Energy who got taxed with this 2:23:11.560 --> 2:23:14.840 through some sort of incoherent DEI narrative and also a 2:23:14.959 --> 2:23:17.680 character trait as they are always stealing luggage, and like 2:23:17.920 --> 2:23:21.120 you could actually be bits around that over time. But 2:23:21.200 --> 2:23:23.760 they just they threw all these people in knowing that 2:23:23.920 --> 2:23:27.000 like the two hundred people who are as right wing 2:23:27.040 --> 2:23:29.200 online as them would get who all these were as 2:23:29.200 --> 2:23:30.720 opposed to doing the thing that you would do if 2:23:30.720 --> 2:23:33.120 you were actually making a show for mainstream consumption, which 2:23:33.160 --> 2:23:37.519 is like make fun of people that the audience will recognize. 2:23:38.280 --> 2:23:42.320 Throw with Joe Biden in there right, like obviously you're 2:23:42.360 --> 2:23:45.959 doing this in twenty twenty four, Like where is anyone 2:23:46.000 --> 2:23:48.920 that someone who's not completely lost their mind to this 2:23:48.959 --> 2:23:50.160 stuff will recognize? 2:23:50.560 --> 2:23:53.040 And this is this is the climax of the pilot. 2:23:53.120 --> 2:23:58.120 It's it's so, it's so bad. After Chaz has this 2:23:58.160 --> 2:24:02.400 little phone call, the fake camera zooms back to show 2:24:02.520 --> 2:24:06.840 a fake animated studio audience, and the bad country theme 2:24:06.959 --> 2:24:09.840 song plays once again, and and now now I will 2:24:09.840 --> 2:24:12.760 play it for you, because this section is both so 2:24:12.920 --> 2:24:15.560 pandering but also oddly genuine. 2:24:15.600 --> 2:24:24.720 Towards the end, newly same as you know, everythanks changing 2:24:25.120 --> 2:24:31.400 and I don't know this will not Marri And thank 2:24:31.560 --> 2:24:33.920 God for relungbows and. 2:24:34.120 --> 2:24:39.080 The ship those maids, it says the fall free speech. 2:24:40.360 --> 2:24:44.080 When the song goes, thank god for Elon Musk and 2:24:44.160 --> 2:24:47.600 his ship, post memes he is the home for free speech, 2:24:48.480 --> 2:24:52.720 and unvoiced animated Elon Musk pops through the door for 2:24:52.760 --> 2:24:53.920 no reason. 2:24:54.800 --> 2:24:58.520 And he's someone. Someone on Twitter took a screen grab 2:24:58.560 --> 2:25:00.400 off the Elon Musk and said they gave him that 2:25:00.480 --> 2:25:03.640 in Smith look and he does look like one of 2:25:03.680 --> 2:25:07.120 the fish people from Insmuth. That's not a flattering caricature. 2:25:07.600 --> 2:25:08.640 I think it's meant to be. 2:25:09.040 --> 2:25:12.200 It is because like it's it's I don't know. This 2:25:12.280 --> 2:25:14.320 is a really interesting moment because this is where it 2:25:14.320 --> 2:25:19.280 gets like kind of like genuine. Jess Hawkin wrote, the 2:25:19.320 --> 2:25:21.800 part that blows my mind about this video is the 2:25:21.840 --> 2:25:24.959 Elon Musk cameo where the bitterness and resentment of the 2:25:25.040 --> 2:25:29.360 video melts away into still believing in Santa Claus and 2:25:29.440 --> 2:25:31.879 it gets it gets just so weirdly genuine with this, 2:25:31.920 --> 2:25:35.280 with this like the kind of heartfelt, saccharine Elon Musk 2:25:35.400 --> 2:25:36.440 ending Well. 2:25:36.280 --> 2:25:40.039 Speaking of genuine, Garrison, the main thing that's genuine is 2:25:40.040 --> 2:25:42.000 our love of these sponsors. 2:25:53.280 --> 2:25:57.640 Okay, we are packed so there. After watching this pilot, 2:25:57.840 --> 2:26:00.280 there's there's a lot of questions to be asked. Why 2:26:00.360 --> 2:26:03.720 is there a fake animated studio audience? You know, pretty bad? 2:26:04.040 --> 2:26:06.600 My friend Ellie Erman pointed out, like why is the 2:26:06.920 --> 2:26:10.280 protagonist so unpleasant even in their perfect fantasy world? And 2:26:10.320 --> 2:26:13.920 also why is the word sitcom hyphenated in the title 2:26:14.520 --> 2:26:17.000 something that you don't do? Just a lot of a 2:26:17.000 --> 2:26:19.800 lot of baffling things. So there was there was a 2:26:19.800 --> 2:26:22.000 mix of reactions to this. You know, some of the 2:26:22.040 --> 2:26:25.000 blue checks on Twitter were kind of lapping this stuff up. 2:26:25.160 --> 2:26:29.000 One person with the username Amazing Gaming Productions wrote, I 2:26:29.040 --> 2:26:31.440 know some people are critiquing it, but my fee once 2:26:31.600 --> 2:26:33.959 and I laughed at a couple points. It's a good start. 2:26:34.040 --> 2:26:35.560 I hope you continue to work on it. We need 2:26:35.600 --> 2:26:38.760 all of the indie material we can create. And included 2:26:38.840 --> 2:26:43.440 in this tweet is a picture of a very poorly 2:26:43.560 --> 2:26:46.640 drawn avatar saying, Hi, my name is Indye David. I'm 2:26:46.680 --> 2:26:53.039 here to fight Goliath. Mainstream Oh my God is a 2:26:53.320 --> 2:26:57.160 gamer Gate two themed gaming company who wants to create 2:26:57.200 --> 2:27:01.560 anti woke games. They've done in nothing. They just post 2:27:01.680 --> 2:27:08.480 really bad artwork. And I cannot overstate how bad. 2:27:08.720 --> 2:27:11.200 Why his neck so wide and so long? 2:27:11.760 --> 2:27:14.240 For how bad the TV show's animation is this? This 2:27:14.320 --> 2:27:16.280 reply was just so bad I had to point it out. 2:27:16.400 --> 2:27:17.240 Just incredible. 2:27:17.320 --> 2:27:17.520 Yeah. 2:27:18.400 --> 2:27:23.840 Now, Dave Rubin, the possible alleged potential most likely creator 2:27:23.840 --> 2:27:27.480 of the show, does air his work on Blaze TV, 2:27:27.680 --> 2:27:31.360 you know by by uh by Glenn Beck, and even 2:27:31.520 --> 2:27:35.199 even other Glenn Beck employees could not could not help 2:27:35.320 --> 2:27:36.960 but point out how terrible this is. 2:27:37.080 --> 2:27:37.160 Uh. 2:27:37.360 --> 2:27:40.080 Logan Hall, writer for Glenn Beck's The Blaze, wrote, quote, 2:27:40.160 --> 2:27:43.800 TV shows on leftism the cringiest, most unwatchable, nauseating trash 2:27:43.840 --> 2:27:49.400 ever created TV shows on conservatism, somehow even worse and 2:27:49.959 --> 2:27:53.800 one of the most brain poisoned. Conservative cartoonists George Axopolos 2:27:54.400 --> 2:27:58.240 basically like a discount Stone Toss wrote, quote, South Park 2:27:58.240 --> 2:28:02.080 had ed this has as much edge as uncooked sour dough. 2:28:02.200 --> 2:28:04.560 Between this and the Daily Wires limp cartoon, they may 2:28:04.560 --> 2:28:06.600 as well be flushing money down the toilet. He then 2:28:06.680 --> 2:28:08.680 went on to say, give me a small team, a 2:28:08.760 --> 2:28:11.800 million dollars and total creative control, and we will make 2:28:11.800 --> 2:28:14.520 a cartoon pilot that will melt faces. So again he 2:28:14.600 --> 2:28:17.680 just wants to to get his own his own TV show, 2:28:18.000 --> 2:28:20.240 but a whole bunch of these, you know, kind of 2:28:21.400 --> 2:28:24.359 right wing cultural critics were we're not we're not infused 2:28:24.400 --> 2:28:27.600 with this, with this outing because it's because it's really bad. 2:28:27.680 --> 2:28:29.400 So I want to get into kind of who is 2:28:29.520 --> 2:28:35.000 behind this now the full I hesitate to say creative team, 2:28:35.360 --> 2:28:39.119 but the people by the same team. Yeah, the team 2:28:39.600 --> 2:28:41.880 behind the New Norm Show. Not to be confused with 2:28:41.920 --> 2:28:44.879 the Fox two season documentary show The New Norm have 2:28:45.000 --> 2:28:48.199 been have been largely kept secret, possibly out of fears 2:28:48.240 --> 2:28:48.920 of humiliation. 2:28:49.879 --> 2:28:51.840 Yeah, that's how you know it's a good show. 2:28:51.840 --> 2:28:54.200 But we at least do know some of the voice cast, right, 2:28:54.440 --> 2:28:57.600 Larry Elder plays the token black conservative who only exists 2:28:57.640 --> 2:29:00.480 to affirm that the main character isn't actually racist. Now, 2:29:00.600 --> 2:29:04.080 I doubt Larry Elder has much involvement beyond lending his 2:29:04.160 --> 2:29:09.000 voice and the other two confirmed voice Again, I hesitate 2:29:09.040 --> 2:29:11.480 to use the word talent or even actor, but the 2:29:11.720 --> 2:29:16.080 other two voice contributors are Dave Rubin and JP Sears. 2:29:16.120 --> 2:29:19.640 Now I believe these two could be much more critical 2:29:20.040 --> 2:29:23.000 to what makes up the comedy of The New Norm Show. 2:29:23.000 --> 2:29:25.160 Not to be confused with the Oatly Oat Milk series 2:29:25.200 --> 2:29:29.360 of online puppet shorts titled The New Norm anal show. Now, 2:29:29.680 --> 2:29:32.200 I assume most people listening to this are familiar with 2:29:32.320 --> 2:29:36.039 Dave Rubin. Like many of these right wing influencers, he's 2:29:36.040 --> 2:29:39.400 a failed comedian turned political podcaster who's been positioning himself 2:29:39.400 --> 2:29:41.200 further and further to the right over the course of 2:29:41.240 --> 2:29:44.800 the last decade. Now, JP Sears was a quote unquote 2:29:44.800 --> 2:29:47.720 holistic life coach who turned kind of into like a 2:29:47.879 --> 2:29:52.080 YouTube skeptic type satirical comedian, and while trying to parody 2:29:52.200 --> 2:29:54.920 new age WU and conspiracy theories, JP was peddling his 2:29:54.920 --> 2:29:59.360 own pseudoscience and adopting more and more conspiratorial beliefs. Over time, 2:29:59.640 --> 2:30:02.240 JP and his comedy began moving further and further to 2:30:02.280 --> 2:30:04.600 the right. But the COVID nineteen lockdown was kind of 2:30:04.600 --> 2:30:07.080 the breaking point where he went all in on anti vaxx, 2:30:07.120 --> 2:30:11.879 COVID nineteen and January sixth conspiracy theories. But I think 2:30:11.920 --> 2:30:14.360 there has to be at least one other contributor, you know, 2:30:14.440 --> 2:30:16.640 behind like the art and design of the show, and 2:30:16.680 --> 2:30:18.280 I can't I can't figure out who that is. I 2:30:18.520 --> 2:30:20.200 scrolled through all of the tweets to try to find 2:30:20.240 --> 2:30:23.119 out if this account had another name. I can't find 2:30:23.120 --> 2:30:25.280 out who exactly this other person is. There is there 2:30:25.320 --> 2:30:29.720 is one mystery, one mystery component. But one interesting thing 2:30:29.760 --> 2:30:33.120 I did uncover is that the New Norm show, not 2:30:33.120 --> 2:30:34.959 to be confused with the twenty twelve TV show The 2:30:34.959 --> 2:30:38.760 New Normal, has been in production in some form for 2:30:38.959 --> 2:30:43.160 over four years. They've been working on this for over 2:30:43.240 --> 2:30:47.920 four years. There's one frame from a video titled Character 2:30:48.040 --> 2:30:52.160 Sketch Evolutions posted on September nineteenth of last year, and 2:30:52.280 --> 2:30:54.879 this show's project files stretching all the way back to 2:30:54.959 --> 2:30:58.600 January of twenty twenty. They've been working on this since 2:30:58.680 --> 2:31:02.200 January twenty twenty. Early sketches of the daughter feature and 2:31:02.280 --> 2:31:06.640 Antifa and transgender tattoo on her left arm. Also she 2:31:06.760 --> 2:31:10.160 has a kefia and posters that read Vegans for Palestine, 2:31:10.480 --> 2:31:12.480 all all in twenty twenty artwork. 2:31:12.840 --> 2:31:13.400 Wow. 2:31:13.800 --> 2:31:19.240 Yeah, yehow that's kind of fascinating because the daughter character 2:31:19.320 --> 2:31:21.680 in the published pilot is just wearing like a hoodie 2:31:21.720 --> 2:31:24.039 and like a beanie's. There's none of. 2:31:24.040 --> 2:31:27.040 These got like some bracelets that have like a there's 2:31:27.040 --> 2:31:29.240 at least one off her bracelets has a rainbow on it, 2:31:29.280 --> 2:31:32.200 which I think is the only queer signaling or like 2:31:32.360 --> 2:31:35.039 kind of it really signaling of any kind that we get. 2:31:35.080 --> 2:31:37.440 And she has an Apple Watch because lol gen z. 2:31:38.200 --> 2:31:41.160 But yeah, the otherwise her design is completely boring, like 2:31:41.200 --> 2:31:42.400 there's nothing going on. 2:31:43.600 --> 2:31:47.560 And I found this other, this other thing that is 2:31:47.600 --> 2:31:51.400 maybe a little bit you know, behind the scenes, look 2:31:51.400 --> 2:31:55.760 at what this may have been. So last March this 2:31:55.840 --> 2:31:59.160 account posted a little comic strip saying I'll look at 2:31:59.200 --> 2:32:02.720 how it began as a comic strip. So possibly this 2:32:02.800 --> 2:32:05.879 may have originated as not being an animated series but 2:32:06.000 --> 2:32:09.040 instead an online webcomic, which might explain a few things. 2:32:09.040 --> 2:32:12.680 And also that I assume the mystery contributor that we 2:32:12.680 --> 2:32:15.000 don't know probably was working on the webcomic and then 2:32:15.040 --> 2:32:17.560 kind of rope gain more and more people the sated series. 2:32:17.800 --> 2:32:20.120 But I am going to read out this webcomic just 2:32:20.120 --> 2:32:23.440 because it is fascinatingly bad. 2:32:24.320 --> 2:32:27.039 Oh my god, Oh my god. 2:32:27.440 --> 2:32:31.080 Norm says, for twenty years our address was seven Columbus Ave. 2:32:31.520 --> 2:32:33.400 Now it's callin Kaepernick Drive. 2:32:33.840 --> 2:32:35.279 That's his daughter saying. 2:32:35.040 --> 2:32:39.240 That, and everyone thinks I feel so. The mom says fancy, 2:32:39.360 --> 2:32:43.320 the daughter says woke, and Norm says sick. And then 2:32:43.680 --> 2:32:46.000 a whole bunch of news crews show up at Norm's 2:32:46.000 --> 2:32:47.800 front door. They say, what's it like to live in 2:32:47.800 --> 2:32:50.800 the most woke address in town? And Norman says, I 2:32:50.920 --> 2:32:53.840 refuse to call it callin Kaepernick Drive. It's Columbus Av. 2:32:54.280 --> 2:32:57.120 The news media says any last words before the angry 2:32:57.160 --> 2:32:59.520 mob shows up. Should we call a fire department for you? 2:32:59.760 --> 2:33:02.879 And Norman says, I thought you snowflakes defunded them too. 2:33:03.600 --> 2:33:06.880 It's not even no, no one was talking about defunding 2:33:06.879 --> 2:33:08.720 the fire department. Not true anyway. 2:33:08.800 --> 2:33:11.600 It's it's like it's just not even a joke, right, 2:33:11.879 --> 2:33:15.560 like the the there's not like a release of tension 2:33:15.600 --> 2:33:18.040 or anything with like the the end bit being like 2:33:18.400 --> 2:33:20.440 him saying, why would we call the fire department he 2:33:20.520 --> 2:33:22.520 defunded that? It's not It's like, it's not a joke. 2:33:22.879 --> 2:33:27.160 No, Like the last series of panels are even more disconnected. Yeah, 2:33:27.200 --> 2:33:30.400 they are back inside the doors closed norm says Chloe, 2:33:30.480 --> 2:33:32.280 which I guess is his daughter's name. Never said in 2:33:32.280 --> 2:33:36.080 the pilot, Chloe, why must your generation change everything? And 2:33:36.120 --> 2:33:39.200 then the doorbell rings delivery. The mom answers the door 2:33:39.280 --> 2:33:42.720 and says, sorry, wrong address. This is now Colin Kaeprinick Drive. 2:33:43.200 --> 2:33:46.920 Ben Affleck Boulevard is two streets down where James Woods 2:33:46.920 --> 2:33:47.800 Parkway used to be. 2:33:48.120 --> 2:33:52.600 My god, that's what is that? Even that is that? Even? 2:33:53.280 --> 2:33:54.080 Do you really like? 2:33:54.360 --> 2:33:55.080 Is it? 2:33:55.160 --> 2:33:58.440 They were okay James would get fallen. They replaced it 2:33:58.440 --> 2:33:59.879 with ben Affleck Boulevard. 2:34:00.920 --> 2:34:02.879 If you could if you were someone who was like 2:34:03.000 --> 2:34:06.880 kind of conservative but not completely brain poisoned, you could 2:34:06.879 --> 2:34:09.080 actually get some good bits out of Like they changed 2:34:09.120 --> 2:34:11.240 the name of this street from Columbus Avenue to Colin 2:34:11.280 --> 2:34:13.520 kaepern to drive Now. The smart way to play off 2:34:13.560 --> 2:34:15.080 of that would be to make it very clear that 2:34:15.120 --> 2:34:18.439 the town has a bunch of existing issues with inequality 2:34:18.440 --> 2:34:21.320 and racism that they have not dealt with in lieu 2:34:21.360 --> 2:34:23.720 of changing the name of a single street and pretending 2:34:23.760 --> 2:34:27.200 things are better. And you can actually, like there's things 2:34:27.200 --> 2:34:30.080 you could do with that were you actually making comedy. 2:34:30.160 --> 2:34:33.119 But like the fact that they the fact that the 2:34:33.280 --> 2:34:37.080 escalation is rather than sort of like examining this world 2:34:37.160 --> 2:34:40.520 and like why shit like this gets done just to 2:34:40.640 --> 2:34:45.200 kind of like make these like performative gestures. Instead, it's like, 2:34:45.440 --> 2:34:48.720 and next they're going to replace James Woods with ben Affleck? 2:34:49.120 --> 2:34:52.440 Which therey good do the gen Z kids do the 2:34:52.480 --> 2:34:56.760 progressives like ben Affleck? Does anyone feel all that strongly 2:34:56.840 --> 2:34:58.000 about ben Affleck? 2:34:58.200 --> 2:35:01.320 No, we had to start naving street after ben Affleck. Also, 2:35:02.040 --> 2:35:04.680 why would there be a James Woods Parkway anyway? Whatever? 2:35:05.480 --> 2:35:08.680 Yeah, who's naming a street after name a thing? James 2:35:08.720 --> 2:35:10.480 Woods has been in like. 2:35:10.959 --> 2:35:15.560 Oh my god. So the marketing of this pilot is 2:35:15.600 --> 2:35:18.280 even is almost as baffling as the pilot itself. Right, 2:35:18.680 --> 2:35:21.920 there's a few slogans they like to use, first of all, 2:35:21.959 --> 2:35:24.640 the South Park of X, which is already just brilliant, 2:35:25.240 --> 2:35:29.959 it's hard, legalize humor, very very funny, and make America 2:35:30.160 --> 2:35:32.800 funny again. They will often just tweet these phrases out 2:35:32.800 --> 2:35:36.680 with no context, and sure, why not. The home page 2:35:36.800 --> 2:35:40.200 on their website reads quote The New Norm. Not to 2:35:40.240 --> 2:35:43.680 be confused with the ongoing podcast series. The New Norm 2:35:44.360 --> 2:35:47.480 is an animated sitcom for our woke world, an edgy 2:35:47.640 --> 2:35:51.000 yet family friendly comedy that shines a funny light on 2:35:51.040 --> 2:35:55.199 today's most divisive issues and gives Americans a safe space 2:35:55.600 --> 2:35:59.560 to come together and laugh. Just fantastic stuff. 2:36:00.400 --> 2:36:04.840 Great, great, I love again. I made a comment about this, 2:36:04.920 --> 2:36:07.040 but I love that they're calling this the South Park 2:36:07.200 --> 2:36:11.080 of X because like the South Park, guys would never 2:36:11.160 --> 2:36:14.520 put a cartoon or anything else on X because they 2:36:14.560 --> 2:36:17.760 actually make things that are commercially successful and so real 2:36:17.920 --> 2:36:23.080 companies will buy their shows, whereas if you're putting something 2:36:23.120 --> 2:36:25.400 on X, it means that there's no money in what 2:36:25.520 --> 2:36:28.160 you're doing. It means that you your show is going 2:36:28.200 --> 2:36:31.480 to be monetized alongside those ads for games that don't 2:36:31.520 --> 2:36:36.240 exist that just show like boy like little action cartoon 2:36:36.360 --> 2:36:39.560 characters leaping into the legs of like very horny drawings 2:36:39.640 --> 2:36:43.400 of Gorgan's and shit and actual straight up pornography because 2:36:43.400 --> 2:36:44.600 there is no money on. 2:36:44.879 --> 2:36:49.520 X Family friendly so funny. Now, there are a few 2:36:49.680 --> 2:36:53.800 reviews that they post on the new norm website. Bill 2:36:53.879 --> 2:36:58.480 Mahers has brilliant, Dave Rubins has beautiful, Larry Elders has relevant, 2:36:58.560 --> 2:37:01.600 timely and funny men and Kevin. 2:37:01.320 --> 2:37:02.280 He's literally in. 2:37:02.520 --> 2:37:06.879 He's one of the voices, so is Steve Ruben and 2:37:06.959 --> 2:37:13.200 Kevin Sorbo says All in the Family for our time. Wow, Robert, Well, 2:37:13.400 --> 2:37:16.600 what is All in the Family? Because I am a zooming. 2:37:16.320 --> 2:37:18.039 I need you explain a couple of things. All in 2:37:18.080 --> 2:37:22.760 the Family was a groundbreaking sitcom show from like fifteen 2:37:22.840 --> 2:37:24.320 or twenty years before you were born. 2:37:25.200 --> 2:37:26.720 Even longer than that, I mean it was like it 2:37:26.760 --> 2:37:27.879 was like the seventies. 2:37:27.520 --> 2:37:30.680 Right, yeah, oh shit, it was like thirty or forty 2:37:30.760 --> 2:37:31.800 years before you were born. 2:37:31.879 --> 2:37:34.760 Yes, it's way way before my time. It's before your time. 2:37:35.200 --> 2:37:39.920 Yes, yes, it is, and uh, Kevin Sorbo. Do you 2:37:39.959 --> 2:37:41.080 know who Kevin Sorbo was? 2:37:41.160 --> 2:37:45.200 Even Robert I grew up watching Christian movies. I am 2:37:45.440 --> 2:37:48.040 intimately familiar with Kevin Sorboh. 2:37:48.080 --> 2:37:51.040 Okay, okay, but I know why he actually got famous. 2:37:51.080 --> 2:37:56.760 He was, yes, in a show that again predates your existence. 2:37:56.280 --> 2:38:00.680 But it's now just your bad Christian actor. Now, these 2:38:00.680 --> 2:38:02.760 reviews are funny, not only because two of these people 2:38:02.760 --> 2:38:05.039 giving reviews on the site are literally in the pilot, 2:38:05.160 --> 2:38:09.439 but also let's look at the Bill Maher quote brilliant. 2:38:10.280 --> 2:38:12.560 Do you think Bill Maher has seen this pilot? 2:38:13.520 --> 2:38:13.560 No? 2:38:13.720 --> 2:38:14.000 I don't. 2:38:14.040 --> 2:38:14.920 He hasn't. 2:38:15.000 --> 2:38:15.160 No. 2:38:15.440 --> 2:38:18.600 Do you know why? Of course, because underneath the text 2:38:18.680 --> 2:38:22.640 that says in quotes brilliant, it says brilliant Bill Maher, 2:38:22.920 --> 2:38:25.959 HBO Real Time Host, And then in much smaller text, 2:38:26.040 --> 2:38:29.800 it says, speaking of the show creator's previous work featured 2:38:29.800 --> 2:38:34.200 on HBO, he's just talking about Dave Rubin being interviewed 2:38:34.280 --> 2:38:38.720 on his show. At some point Bill Maher said brilliant 2:38:38.800 --> 2:38:41.040 to Dave Rubin, And now they're using this as a 2:38:41.120 --> 2:38:43.120 quote endorsing this show. 2:38:43.200 --> 2:38:43.480 Man. 2:38:43.959 --> 2:38:48.720 I kind of I feel like, so fifteen years or 2:38:48.760 --> 2:38:52.600 so ago, back when he was still alive. Roger Ebert 2:38:52.800 --> 2:38:55.200 shared one of my articles that I wrote for Cracked, 2:38:55.200 --> 2:38:57.040 and I kind of want to take his feedback on 2:38:57.080 --> 2:39:00.200 that and claim that, like like dress it up his 2:39:00.240 --> 2:39:04.000 feedback for our podcast. Yeah, Roger Hebert loves this show 2:39:04.040 --> 2:39:07.680 that was made ten years after he died. Well he doesn't, 2:39:07.680 --> 2:39:10.080 but he said something nice about something else I did 2:39:10.120 --> 2:39:13.359 a long time ago, so I think he would support. 2:39:13.040 --> 2:39:18.440 Show creator's previous work. It's amazing. And I we will 2:39:18.480 --> 2:39:20.640 return to the Kevin Sorbo quote about All in the 2:39:20.640 --> 2:39:23.840 Family for our time. Yes again, Like this isn't even 2:39:23.879 --> 2:39:26.560 just a parody of like All in the Family. They're 2:39:26.600 --> 2:39:30.000 they're taking certain they're they're taking certain elements, but but 2:39:30.160 --> 2:39:32.600 not like actually satirizing them. They're just kind of doing 2:39:32.680 --> 2:39:35.439 them again. And do you know what we're gonna do again, Robert, 2:39:36.400 --> 2:39:38.640 good ads, We're gonna, we are, we gonna, We're gonna 2:39:38.640 --> 2:39:39.080 go to add. 2:39:38.959 --> 2:39:41.520 We're going We're going to transition, which the people who 2:39:41.600 --> 2:39:42.920 make this show would really hate. 2:39:53.959 --> 2:39:57.360 Okay, we are back. I have a few images from 2:39:57.640 --> 2:39:59.880 the from the marketing of this that you're gonna love. 2:40:00.040 --> 2:40:00.320 Robert. 2:40:00.600 --> 2:40:04.000 Back in September, the New Norm shows. Twitter posted this 2:40:04.160 --> 2:40:08.439 picture It's a very bad cardoon Mike god, Ben Shapiro, 2:40:08.560 --> 2:40:10.080 Tucker Carlson, and Joe Rogan. 2:40:10.879 --> 2:40:11.680 What are these? 2:40:12.240 --> 2:40:16.200 It has one like and textra says who is your 2:40:16.280 --> 2:40:24.200 fav street A small they made bit Shapiro and Joe Rogan. Oh, 2:40:24.720 --> 2:40:28.800 and there is another another image of Norm the titular 2:40:28.879 --> 2:40:32.040 character saying thank you Chaya Wrycheck and Elon Musk for 2:40:32.080 --> 2:40:35.200 the freedom to say amen. Now that the word amen 2:40:35.440 --> 2:40:38.879 was undemonetized. So most of their marketing kind of look 2:40:39.000 --> 2:40:41.280 kind of looks like this. It's just it's talking about 2:40:41.320 --> 2:40:44.600 other more popular right wing content creators or just praising 2:40:44.720 --> 2:40:47.840 Elon Musk. That is most of the marketing for the show. 2:40:49.040 --> 2:40:51.560 It seems their primary marketing strategy seems to be sucking 2:40:51.640 --> 2:40:54.080 up to Elon Musk to attract attention from him and 2:40:54.200 --> 2:40:57.440 his fan base. Now, I haven't seen anyone else talking 2:40:57.440 --> 2:40:59.840 about this yet, but the New Norm Show, not to 2:40:59.840 --> 2:41:03.160 be confused with the New Norm McDonald Show, actually released 2:41:03.360 --> 2:41:07.720 their first video project last March. It was titled Elon 2:41:07.840 --> 2:41:14.640 Musk xaoc ai Animation unquote what, with show creator Dave 2:41:14.720 --> 2:41:20.160 Rubin saying the future of animation is AI The video 2:41:20.280 --> 2:41:23.120 starts with an AI image of Elon Musk in a 2:41:23.200 --> 2:41:29.520 black suit, with voiceover of Norm A dressing Musk saying, Hey, Elon, 2:41:29.879 --> 2:41:34.360 check this out. We cut to a congressional deposition where 2:41:34.400 --> 2:41:37.119 AOC is questioning Elon Musk, who is wearing a spacesuit 2:41:37.480 --> 2:41:40.880 about him, replying, quote unquote true to a meme posted 2:41:40.920 --> 2:41:43.840 by Norm saying that AOC is hot but not smart. 2:41:44.480 --> 2:41:46.600 Mister Musk, call me Elon. 2:41:49.360 --> 2:41:52.080 There's a slow motion love heart sequence of Elon and 2:41:52.160 --> 2:41:55.280 AOC staring at each other, and Elon says, I have 2:41:55.400 --> 2:41:58.240 a hands on approach to the world's population crisis. 2:41:58.600 --> 2:42:02.920 You'll never get your hands up on me. I'm boycotting you. 2:42:03.280 --> 2:42:05.440 Then go yourself. 2:42:06.200 --> 2:42:08.920 God, he looks like a cherub in that spacesuit. 2:42:09.040 --> 2:42:09.920 What is so? 2:42:10.040 --> 2:42:10.240 Yeah? 2:42:10.360 --> 2:42:13.959 Here, here's here's Ai Norm and AI Elon Musk sitting 2:42:14.000 --> 2:42:14.760 in this courtroom. 2:42:15.920 --> 2:42:16.080 Now. 2:42:16.840 --> 2:42:19.800 Norm says that it's because of Elon's reply quote that 2:42:20.000 --> 2:42:23.920 millions of people saw my post. So in this in 2:42:24.040 --> 2:42:26.640 this like little to no effort AI short, they straight 2:42:26.720 --> 2:42:29.840 up lay out their intentions behind all of this, clamoring 2:42:29.959 --> 2:42:31.520 for Musk's attention and approval. 2:42:31.600 --> 2:42:31.720 Right. 2:42:32.520 --> 2:42:35.680 Their goal is that if Elon Musk can see their stuff, 2:42:36.080 --> 2:42:38.640 maybe he'll spread it and it will be popular. That's 2:42:38.680 --> 2:42:39.840 the intention. 2:42:40.000 --> 2:42:41.879 A nine year old boy, Oh yeah. 2:42:41.720 --> 2:42:42.400 He does. 2:42:42.520 --> 2:42:45.160 He does look like like cherub Elon Musk. Absolutely yeah. 2:42:45.879 --> 2:42:48.400 But so this is this is their entire strategy, right, 2:42:48.440 --> 2:42:51.160 It's to make content that they hope Elon Musk will 2:42:51.200 --> 2:42:53.640 see and then boost so that people will give them money. 2:42:54.160 --> 2:42:56.440 That's that's the entirety of the bit. In the replies 2:42:56.480 --> 2:42:58.840 to this AI short film, everyone who like expressed that 2:42:58.879 --> 2:43:01.240 they liked it, saying like so funny or just like 2:43:01.280 --> 2:43:04.520 a laugh emoji. The norm account replied to every single 2:43:04.560 --> 2:43:07.480 one of these tweets with a thumbs up emoji. That's it, 2:43:07.760 --> 2:43:11.520 I got, that's that's it, like sometimes with a flaming 2:43:11.560 --> 2:43:14.240 thumbs up, sometimes with a regular thumb up emoji, but 2:43:14.440 --> 2:43:16.720 replying to every single tweet they just did a thumbs up. 2:43:16.800 --> 2:43:19.360 It's so it's so lazy, like like. 2:43:19.600 --> 2:43:23.120 Content goes out. That's some intern who's getting paid by 2:43:23.160 --> 2:43:26.560 there in like or if they're getting paid or whatever, 2:43:26.600 --> 2:43:29.000 however they're getting evaluated. They want to be able to 2:43:29.040 --> 2:43:31.360 claim that they were doing lots of work. So yeah, 2:43:31.400 --> 2:43:33.840 they're just going through and thumbs uping every post. That's 2:43:33.959 --> 2:43:35.039 my wild So. 2:43:36.720 --> 2:43:39.120 This is all kind of reminiscent of The Daily Wire's 2:43:39.200 --> 2:43:42.840 own animated comedy, mister Burcham right now, mister Burchram, we 2:43:42.920 --> 2:43:45.200 talked about in our in our in our Daily Wire 2:43:45.320 --> 2:43:47.760 episodes earlier this year, but it was it was pitched 2:43:47.800 --> 2:43:50.960 to Fox, like over a decade ago. They even made 2:43:51.000 --> 2:43:54.240 a ten minute animatic. Fox passed, and so did every 2:43:54.360 --> 2:43:58.200 other network and streaming service also declined to pick up 2:43:58.280 --> 2:44:02.360 the project until until it came across Jeremy Boring's desk 2:44:02.440 --> 2:44:03.440 a few years ago. 2:44:03.879 --> 2:44:06.920 And Jeremy Bowring said, Adam Carolla, that's who the kids 2:44:06.959 --> 2:44:07.800 love these days. 2:44:09.760 --> 2:44:12.080 So yeah, they green lit the show and it is 2:44:12.160 --> 2:44:14.920 now airing on The Daily Wire Plus. But most of 2:44:15.000 --> 2:44:18.000 the jokes are super outdated because again this was pitched 2:44:18.120 --> 2:44:21.240 ten years ago, over ten years ago, so there's a 2:44:21.240 --> 2:44:24.200 wholench of just like vegan jokes, Like it's jokes that 2:44:24.360 --> 2:44:26.920 maybe would have been transgressive in twenty eleven. 2:44:27.280 --> 2:44:27.400 You know. 2:44:27.520 --> 2:44:29.920 Of course, there's like there's like a few updated jokes 2:44:29.959 --> 2:44:33.640 thrown in there, but like not many. So in terms 2:44:33.720 --> 2:44:36.160 of the New Norm show, not to be confused with 2:44:36.240 --> 2:44:39.000 the many other projects with the same title, only the 2:44:39.080 --> 2:44:42.000 three minute pilot episode is out right now right. They 2:44:42.040 --> 2:44:45.720 are soliciting more money and that's the main drive of 2:44:45.760 --> 2:44:48.360 putting out this pilot is that they are spreading around 2:44:48.400 --> 2:44:51.400 this donation link like crazy. They've explicitly said when does 2:44:51.440 --> 2:44:54.760 the first episode drop? Soon but sooner if y'all give 2:44:54.879 --> 2:44:56.160 here with the donation link. 2:44:56.840 --> 2:44:57.040 Yeah. 2:44:57.720 --> 2:45:00.960 Two other tweets read quote support this show to animate 2:45:01.000 --> 2:45:04.080 the first season, and support this show and help fight 2:45:04.360 --> 2:45:08.120 the woke mind virus with laughter unquote. I don't think 2:45:08.160 --> 2:45:09.800 this will actually ever get made because no one's gonna 2:45:09.800 --> 2:45:11.039 support this because it's garbage. 2:45:11.480 --> 2:45:14.480 This is like that reddap Family an FT cartoon exactly, 2:45:14.560 --> 2:45:15.800 which I'm still hard well. 2:45:15.840 --> 2:45:18.360 That they're doing is trying to get you know, like 2:45:18.800 --> 2:45:22.600 unfortunate souls to donate money to this, and uh, I 2:45:22.640 --> 2:45:24.400 don't think the right wing billionaires are going to be 2:45:24.440 --> 2:45:27.440 funding this the same way they fund other Daily Wire projects. 2:45:28.480 --> 2:45:30.720 So this seems kind of dead in the water. This 2:45:30.800 --> 2:45:32.480 seems like it, you know, not much thought was put 2:45:32.480 --> 2:45:37.240 into it. It's lazy. It's also completely stealing a Simpson's 2:45:37.320 --> 2:45:40.959 joke from nineteen ninety nine. This is the big thing 2:45:41.160 --> 2:45:44.320 I discovered. So I've been trying to watch more nineties 2:45:44.400 --> 2:45:48.040 Simpson lately, Good for You, Good for You, Solid Move, 2:45:48.360 --> 2:45:51.039 And as I was watching the three minute pilot, something 2:45:51.120 --> 2:45:54.080 started to feel a little bit familiar. And then I 2:45:54.280 --> 2:45:56.960 read the Kevin Sorbo review All in the Family for 2:45:57.040 --> 2:46:02.160 Our Time, and I realized something. This whole show is 2:46:02.320 --> 2:46:05.360 just stealing a cutaway gag from a nineteen ninety nine 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:09.120 Simpsons episode about a fake sitcom called All in the 2:46:09.200 --> 2:46:12.640 Family nineteen ninety nine, in which a new, more woke 2:46:12.959 --> 2:46:16.360 and inclusive a version of the original show is airing 2:46:16.440 --> 2:46:20.320 on TV. And here's a collection of images Robert in 2:46:20.440 --> 2:46:24.600 my Google document that shows early concept art of Norm 2:46:24.840 --> 2:46:28.039 looking exactly like the main character of. 2:46:28.200 --> 2:46:30.240 Yeah, Down with the Cigar. 2:46:31.560 --> 2:46:34.360 It literally, the picture of him in the chair looks traced. 2:46:34.840 --> 2:46:38.640 It is the exact same. There is a diverse cast. 2:46:38.560 --> 2:46:41.880 And standing next to him exactly the woman's study major 2:46:41.920 --> 2:46:45.119 in her birkenstocks exactly. It got a Rabbi in there 2:46:45.120 --> 2:46:48.920 as opposed to the which is some nineties diversity. Colm. 2:46:49.040 --> 2:46:51.880 But like, and I remember that bit too, which is 2:46:51.959 --> 2:46:55.640 like a it's actually a because there were conservatives writing 2:46:55.760 --> 2:46:59.920 on the Simpsons in the nineties, one of the John Schwartzwelder, 2:47:00.120 --> 2:47:04.320 was like a famous libertarian, like he's a but he's 2:47:04.360 --> 2:47:08.039 also like funny, and so they made a good bit 2:47:08.280 --> 2:47:12.920 about like pec like the rash of like overtly politically 2:47:13.000 --> 2:47:15.400 correct shows right like it's it's it's a it's a 2:47:15.480 --> 2:47:18.680 fun little aside joke that Schwartzwelder was enough of a 2:47:18.760 --> 2:47:23.119 comedian to know is good for about six seconds exactly. 2:47:23.200 --> 2:47:25.400 And I will play those six seconds right now and 2:47:25.520 --> 2:47:28.920 at nine thirty All in the Family nineteen ninety nine. 2:47:29.360 --> 2:47:33.000 Who geez did he got me living with an African American, 2:47:33.080 --> 2:47:35.920 a semi American, and a woman American there. 2:47:36.080 --> 2:47:39.440 And I'm glad I loved you so all, I love everybody. 2:47:39.720 --> 2:47:41.840 I wish i'd shaved my money from the first show. 2:47:42.360 --> 2:47:42.560 Yeah. 2:47:42.640 --> 2:47:46.160 See, there's there's, there's there's a couple of different jokes there. Yeah, 2:47:46.240 --> 2:47:49.959 there's multiple jokes in that three seconds or so. It's 2:47:50.040 --> 2:47:52.520 such a good layered joke on the part of the Simpsons. 2:47:52.600 --> 2:47:56.000 It has the parody of Archie from All in the 2:47:56.040 --> 2:47:59.640 Family kind of being like offensive in an old fashioned way, 2:48:00.640 --> 2:48:02.760 you know, bemoaning that he has to be around all 2:48:02.800 --> 2:48:05.920 these people, but also saying that he loves everyone in 2:48:05.959 --> 2:48:07.680 the way that these kind of shows like to play 2:48:07.760 --> 2:48:10.480 both sides by showing the main character is still good 2:48:10.600 --> 2:48:13.680 nature despite his faults, and then he flips again saying 2:48:13.720 --> 2:48:15.920 he's he's only come back to do the show because 2:48:15.959 --> 2:48:18.800 he needs money. The bit doesn't overstate it's welcome, it 2:48:19.000 --> 2:48:22.280 lasts only like ten seconds, and yet is infinitely more 2:48:22.360 --> 2:48:26.000 funny than the entirety of this three minute pilot, And 2:48:26.160 --> 2:48:28.840 Dave Rubin actually thought he could just rip off a 2:48:28.959 --> 2:48:31.960 shore to obscure Simpson's joke and stretch it into an 2:48:32.200 --> 2:48:35.280 entire show and no one would notice. So I was 2:48:35.320 --> 2:48:37.360 really happy to find that this was just stealing an 2:48:37.360 --> 2:48:39.800 old Simpson's joke really poorly too. 2:48:40.200 --> 2:48:42.920 And because I've been watching more older Simpsons, I've also 2:48:43.080 --> 2:48:46.640 realized that a lot of the jokes and ladyballers are 2:48:46.720 --> 2:48:50.480 also just completely stolen from Simpsons, but ripped of the 2:48:50.600 --> 2:48:53.440 context that makes them funny. So all of these like 2:48:53.600 --> 2:48:56.440 right wing like cranks we're trying to produce this comedy stuff, 2:48:56.760 --> 2:48:59.520 they're all just kind of going back to old Simpson's 2:48:59.600 --> 2:49:03.040 jokes that people, hopefully you have like forgotten and are 2:49:03.120 --> 2:49:07.280 injecting them without the actual humorous context into all these 2:49:07.360 --> 2:49:10.920 anti woke projects. And it doesn't work. It simply doesn't. 2:49:11.120 --> 2:49:13.880 For one, it's plagiarizing, and the second and and like 2:49:14.000 --> 2:49:16.920 secondly it's it's just bad. But yes, I will I 2:49:16.920 --> 2:49:19.760 will post some of these comparison pictures on h on 2:49:19.920 --> 2:49:22.480 my Twitter at Hungry bow Tie if you want to 2:49:22.520 --> 2:49:25.880 see the uh, the shocking, shocking hard works. 2:49:26.720 --> 2:49:30.280 That was a fine investigation, Garrison, because you're definitely right, 2:49:30.680 --> 2:49:33.040 like this is this is a carbon copy of of 2:49:33.120 --> 2:49:35.640 a cutaway gag about all in the family. That's so 2:49:36.120 --> 2:49:36.920 fucking funny. 2:49:37.160 --> 2:49:39.200 Even the background house is the same look. They have, 2:49:39.280 --> 2:49:45.160 the staircase the same the door, like it's everything is 2:49:45.200 --> 2:49:46.520 in the exact same position. 2:49:47.400 --> 2:49:48.240 It's wild. 2:49:48.720 --> 2:49:49.800 I know they said this. 2:49:50.080 --> 2:49:52.560 They sent this to an animator, like they sent that 2:49:52.680 --> 2:49:56.080 screen grab to the animated That's so funny. God, this 2:49:56.480 --> 2:49:59.279 The Simpsons was such a good show and its golden 2:49:59.360 --> 2:50:02.520 years that people are still trying to competently rip it off, 2:50:02.560 --> 2:50:05.600 and again they compare themselves to like the South Park 2:50:05.640 --> 2:50:08.320 of X. South Park even did a much better job 2:50:08.440 --> 2:50:10.920 of ripping off The Simpsons and making that be the 2:50:11.040 --> 2:50:14.560 focus of an episode that like everyone rips off the 2:50:14.600 --> 2:50:17.600 Simpsons because of how the long they've been going on, 2:50:17.760 --> 2:50:18.920 Like yeah, anyway, whatever. 2:50:18.920 --> 2:50:21.560 They were smart enough to remove the cigar in the 2:50:21.640 --> 2:50:24.600 final pilot, but all because because that would be just 2:50:24.720 --> 2:50:27.000 so obvious. But all the concept ared that they've posted 2:50:27.120 --> 2:50:30.040 on Twitter, like half a year ago has has him 2:50:30.080 --> 2:50:32.480 with a cigar wearing a white button up shirt and it. 2:50:32.480 --> 2:50:34.000 Looks it is it is. 2:50:34.200 --> 2:50:36.920 It is almost traced. It is like, yeah, his his 2:50:37.160 --> 2:50:37.560 his arm. 2:50:37.640 --> 2:50:40.519 They threw on the vests distract. 2:50:40.400 --> 2:50:44.520 It's it's phenomenal. So yeah, amazing stuff from Dave Rubin. 2:50:44.879 --> 2:50:47.680 He I guess shouldn't have quit interning at the at 2:50:47.720 --> 2:50:50.320 A at John Stewart back in the two thousands. Maybe 2:50:50.440 --> 2:50:52.720 maybe he could have had a better life, but instead, 2:50:52.920 --> 2:50:56.160 instead we get this, so great job, Dave Rubin. I 2:50:56.640 --> 2:50:59.640 wish you only the best in your future creative works. 2:51:00.200 --> 2:51:03.240 Yeah, this is what's going to get him that plush 2:51:03.280 --> 2:51:06.040 writing gig on the Rick and Morty season. I don't 2:51:06.040 --> 2:51:08.720 know whatever the next one is. I'm sure he's on 2:51:08.879 --> 2:51:09.280 the cusp. 2:51:09.600 --> 2:51:11.840 Oh he's close to breaking through. I can feel it. 2:51:12.120 --> 2:51:16.760 Yeah yeah, all right, right, well I'm glad. I'm gonna 2:51:16.760 --> 2:51:18.320 go watch some classic Simpsons again. 2:51:18.400 --> 2:51:18.600 Thank you. 2:51:18.680 --> 2:51:24.600 For reminding me. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more 2:51:24.640 --> 2:51:27.280 episodes every week from now until the heat death of 2:51:27.320 --> 2:51:27.840 the Universe. 2:51:28.480 --> 2:51:30.800 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2:51:31.040 --> 2:51:33.720 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:51:33.760 --> 2:51:35.960 cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 2:51:36.040 --> 2:51:39.400 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 2:51:39.680 --> 2:51:41.760 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 2:51:41.879 --> 2:51:45.880 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.