WEBVTT - Planned Obsolescence: Engine of the Consumer Economy 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:06.239 Hey, everybody, We're coming to see you soon. Yeah, especially 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.160 first of all Toronto and Chicago. And Toronto, hats off 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:15.240 to you guys. Tickets are selling like gangbusters. Chicago. I 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.840 don't know what's going on with you. I know, Chicago, 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.040 what became of you? Chicago? I thought you loved us. Yeah, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.799 really with your cool hot dogs in your thick pizzas. Yeah, 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.600 and and I mean that's really all you needed to 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.800 mention about Chicago. So we're gonna be at the Harris 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.639 Theater on July. That is very soon. We were going 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.360 to be the next day in Toronto at the Lovely 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.919 Dan fourth Music Hall in July. And then that's not all, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.440 is it. No, that's not all, Chuck. We're also going 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:51.360 to be going to Boston in August, followed by Portland, Maine, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.000 which is on purpose, by the way, that's right, Wilbert 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.720 Theater in Boston, the State Theater in Portland, Maine. We're 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.080 headed to Florida for the first time everyone since or 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.720 Florida at the Plaza Live in Orlando in October nine, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.920 and then the next night October at the Civic Theater 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:08.800 in New Orleans. And then we're gonna wrap it all 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.759 up and spanking on the bottom with our annual trio 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.920 of shows at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn, New York, October 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.760 and is almost sold out. Yeah, So you can get 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.200 tickets to all of these shows, um by going to 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.640 s Y s K live dot com, our home on 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.560 the web for touring, and that will send you out 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.080 to all the great little sites that have links to 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.160 the tickets and info and everything you need. So we 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.280 will see you very soon starting this July. Welcome to 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.960 Stuff you Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:53.440 How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.480 Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.360 and there's Jerry over there. So this is stuff you 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:05.120 should know. Built a break condition? Okay, I didn't. I 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.200 was not paying attention when he said which one we 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.919 were doing? And I thought, you know what, I'm just 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.800 gonna pick up on the clues. Wow, right right out 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.959 of the gate. When did you have it when I said, um, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.120 there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and planned a break Okay, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.760 got that was pretty sharp, Chuck, Hey man, after the 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.040 eleven as years, it's as easy as that. You can 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.760 read my mind so let's talk about the civil Air Patrol. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.600 He just threw me off. Luckily it wasn't enough for 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.360 me to stop and correct you. Though. I'm excited about 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.160 this one because planned obsolescence is one of those things 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:45.160 that's uh. I think it just annoying to people like us. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.040 Were you were you raised with the idea of plan 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.720 planned obsolescence? Like, were you aware of it when you 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.760 were younger? No? Because when I was a kid, things 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.720 seemed to last longer. I had the same refrigerator my 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:04.080 entire lie as a child, same metallic p refrigerator. We 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.680 even got it like refaced, Like that's how long you 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.760 could have an appliance like that. It's like the styles 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.839 have changed, so just get a new front for it. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.160 That's astounding. Man, I didn't even know that you could 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.160 do that. Yeah. I mean I doubt if you still 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.840 can know, but I definitely can't. Yeah. Back then they 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.000 were like, yeah, this is a fifty year fridge, so 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.919 every years, get a new thing on the front. Yeah. Well, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:33.560 if you're sitting there going when Chuck said fifty year fridge, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.600 that's okay. That's the world we live in now. The 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.640 point is it didn't used to be that way. UM. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.520 Things used to last forever and ever, right, So what changed? 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.960 That's a big question that's on people's mind. And what 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.440 a lot of people point to is something called planned 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.560 obsolescence UM, which is pretty straightforward if you think about 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:02.600 It's basically UM companies deliberately making their products UM so 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.560 that they last a shorter amount of time in order 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.360 to make you, the consumer, have to go back and 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.480 buy another one much more UM, much sooner than you 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.080 normally would have if the things were built to last longer. Yeah, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.000 and there are a lot of ways that this can 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.560 go down. It's not always just like hey, build it 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.359 cheap or build it out of crudity materials, but that 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:28.599 is certainly one way to do it. UM. Obviously, the 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.960 you know, with smartphones and the technology uh sector of 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.040 the world, that's where you really hear a lot about 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.479 this because, um, I know a lot of people have 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.360 been frustrated with smartphones and the fact that like, hey, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.240 maybe I want to go five years with a smartphone 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.640 and not have a new update, make it slow, or 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.599 not have my battery not work after three years and 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.479 stuff like that, right, And I mean, like it shouldn't 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.520 have to be like an identity statement to have to 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.200 keep a phone for five years, like you're swimming against 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.200 the current or sticking it to the man. Like you 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.120 should just be able to keep your phone for as 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.400 as long as you like and it's still not only 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.840 continue to work, but also to be like compatible with 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.200 the rest of the world going on around it. That's 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.279 just that's just not the way, that's not the case. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.440 That's just not how things are made, especially in the 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.279 technology sector. Like you were saying, right, and here's the 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:29.520 thing is, it's like this is something that a company 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.400 is not going to admit to. Um, it's not against 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.680 the law. Uh. Some people say it's a myth and 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.880 it's just like tinfoil hat territory. Um. Other people say, no, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:44.279 it clearly totally happens. And then other people even say, yeah, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.919 it happens. But this is great for the economy to 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.760 keep people making stuff all the time. Right. So there's 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.279 this idea of you know, is planned obsolescence a real thing? 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.440 And if it is real, because I think you kind 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.799 of touched on it with that third group, some people 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:01.960 are like, yeah, it is real, but it's not like 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.119 deliberate and out of like a sense of avarice or exploitation. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.160 It's just kind of part of the world we live 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.400 in these days. Um. I think a lot of people 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.839 that are like, no, it is real, and it is deliberate, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.880 and it is out of avarice, and it stinks. It 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.599 does stink. We'll find that there's a lot, there's a 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.080 lot wrong with it, right. Yeah. So, uh, this this 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.599 early light bulb story is pretty interesting. Um, way back 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.599 when Thomas Edison invented a light bulb in the late 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.680 eighteen hundreds that people could use in their homes, he 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.080 used carbon filaments which were eight times thicker than the 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.479 tungsten filaments that came like later, like three decades later. 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.800 So these things lasted a long time. And uh, they 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.039 were built to last. And I can't believe I'm forty 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.120 eight years old and I never had heard of the 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.080 Centennial light, which is a lightbulb from nineteen o one 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.920 that is still working in gallop Orna. Yeah, and a 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.880 fire station in California, and it's on almost all the time. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.320 It's not like they turn it off for thirty five 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.760 years at a stretch. Now, you probably wouldn't want to 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.280 turn it off at this point. I would say probably not. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.600 That's probably the only reason it's working is because it 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.840 doesn't know. It doesn't have to. They've got like the 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.080 scotch tape over the light switch with like do not 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:25.080 turn off it's dim now though. Uh I saw that 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.440 it's down to about a night light for watts or so. Well, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.440 it's been burning for a hundred and eighteen years, give 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.600 it a break. Hey man, I'm not I'm not knocking 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.320 the centennial light. He's my favorite little old light buddy. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.480 Not my presence at least, but yeah, I mean that 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.560 thing point is they were built to last. And uh. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.920 Initially this is because electric companies installed and maintained all 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.760 these systems, including like hey, you needed a new bulb, Like, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.200 we'll come and take care of it for you. Uh. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.000 And then that got shifted to the consumer and they 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.680 were like hey, and they literally were like ky because 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.800 there was a concerted effort that wasn't just like some 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:09.400 abstract thought. There was something called the Phoebus Cartel in 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.920 the nineteen twenties when all these electric companies from around 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.680 the world and bulb manufacturers got together and literally colluded 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.120 and said, hey, let's make lightbulbs not last as long 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.080 because we can sell more. Yeah, collusion. Can't you believe that? 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.640 I can't actually believe it. Not only it is not 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.600 like they got together, like they sent some letters or 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.239 smoked some cigars or happen to have like a conversation 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.400 at a club or something like that, Like they met 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.920 in Geneva, Switzerland to hold a secret meeting to form 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.880 a lightbulb cartel to make lightbulbs last a shorter amount 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.800 of time so they could sell more. It's just it happened. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.960 I mean, that's that's very much proof if you're like 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.160 planned obsi lescence and really a thing, like, there's proof 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.640 that at one point it was definitely a thing. It 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:03.840 was a thing, one of the earliest industries around in 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.440 the post industrial age, so um so the light bulb 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.800 cartel kind of it. Definitely. It's not like that just 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.240 kicked off everything where everybody's like, oh, yeah, that's what 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.440 we're gonna do from now on. It's almost like the 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.280 impression I got is that this is an independent idea 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.680 that was just kind of cropped up throughout the course 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.920 of the twentieth century. But the next people that hit 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.880 upon it, I think, I don't it's entirely possible that 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.280 these guys were all sharing info, you know, the the 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.080 lightbulb guys were like, hey, you you car makers are 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.120 being idiots. Here's what you need to do the same 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.480 places in the cat skills every summer. That's what I 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.880 would guess, seeing that young upcoming comedian Henny young men 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:51.560 do bit so. So the the automakers were the first 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.319 to hit on it next and UM specifically a guy 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.720 named alphred P. Sloan who was a groundbreaking early president 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.240 of General Motors UM, who said, I've got an idea. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.079 We could sell way more cars if we just make 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.679 little updates here there every year to the same car, 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.680 but just change it out enough so that you want 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.000 the newer car. It's newer, it's flash year, it's better 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.160 than the car you own. So maybe after a couple 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.000 of years somebody will take their car that still works 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.640 just fine and trade it in for a new one. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.160 And he's the guy who came up with that. Yeah, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.800 that's called dynamic obsolescence. And I mean, now we take 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.880 it for granted because that's all you hear about is 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.920 the new model year. But previous to that, I mean, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.160 I'd love to do a show on the early auto industry. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.160 I guess they've just made cars and they were called 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.040 the whatever. And I mean when did they make new 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.600 ones every five or six seven years when they had 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.200 a real animation. Well he had this idea in like 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.400 the twenties or thirties, so they there weren't They wouldn't 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.559 have been cars for that many very long yeah, before them, 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.400 but I think it was just like the Model T 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.120 or the Model A or the the box with wheels, 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.800 you know which all of those were, right. Yeah. The 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:11.079 actual term though, planned obsolescence UM, was in a pamphlet 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.560 for the first time in nineteen thirty two, written by 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.920 a real estate broker named Bernard London. Uh And this 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.760 pamphlet was called you know it's two. If it's like 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.079 the big pamphlet writing days, you don't get enough of 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.120 those anymore. You really don't see too many pamphlets outside 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.000 of like a government office or something, right, or if 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.880 you're in Vegas and it's just got you know, you 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.480 know what those kind of pamphlets, right, But this was 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.640 a two and it was called ending the Depression through 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:46.360 Planned Obsolescence. Uh So right there, it's in the title, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.920 first time it had ever been used. And this was 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:54.480 a plan for for products to include an artificial expiration date. 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.040 So the idea was, if you're a consumer and you 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.080 continue to use that product beyond that date, sort of 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.199 like you know, taking an old pill or drinking old milk, 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.440 except you would be charged attacks like, hey, you're still 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.839 using that fridge. Uh, it's two years past its date, 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.400 so you gotta pay attacks on that now, right, And 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.679 it did not take hold, surprisingly or not surprisingly right, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.360 But there's supposedly, from what I saw, there's fifteen copies 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.800 of that pamphlet known to exist still and they're all 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.160 in libraries, and there were twenty originally, right exactly. But 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.920 that Bernard London he had, you know, he had kind 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.160 of an idea, but it was misplaced. It was in 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.920 the wrong place. It was like, nobody wants to tax 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.520 the consumer for using an item they paid for fair 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.960 and square. That's just that's not going to be a 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.200 very popular idea. So he had he was kind of 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.480 on the right path, but he found a tree and 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.720 he started barking up it and it was the wrong one, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.480 you know what I mean. Yeah, but that was Uh. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.280 In fact, that same year, there were two other guys, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.920 Roy Sheldon and uh, this is a great name, eggma 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.839 onto Errands and they wrote a book that wasn't too 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.560 far off. That pamphlet called consumer Engineering Colon or Lease 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.720 of a Colon in the title a new Technique for Prosperity, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.040 and they called it creative waste and just basically flat 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.160 out said we should make things that are less durable 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.680 because uh, you know, people are going to buy more stuff, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:26.240 right and yeah, which I mean lays the foundation for 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.120 the consumer economy that we live in today. Like that's 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.520 it right there. These guys came up with the basis 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.000 of it. Yeah, And it got me thinking about like 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.840 when you when you there are places that make really 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.360 awesome things that are like they're selling point is this 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.720 is really built to last, whether it's a wallet or 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.240 you know, a piece of clothing or something. No, there 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.800 are these you know, they're these high end wallet makers 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.360 now that are saying like this is the wallet that 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.920 you can have for sixty years like your father. Um. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.800 But they often say things like, you know, use military 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.680 aid fabrics or this or that, and I think that's 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.960 just like back then they used to use the highest 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.040 grade and calling a military grade it sounds all fancy. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.360 But what that really means is we use stuff like 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.880 they used to because it just lasts, and now only 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.360 the military does that kind of thing. You know, Yeah, No, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.760 I think you're absolutely right. I mean, that's what That's 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.120 what Bernard London and Roy Sheldon and eggma errands that 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.960 the foundation of their ideas, even though they were separate ideas, 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:32.760 was that things were made too well back then, and 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.920 Bernard London's idea was, well, you could just keep making 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.000 them really well, but you have to say that you 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:43.120 can't use it beyond this this date, which wouldn't work. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.840 But Roy Sheldon and Egmont Aaron said, well, we could 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.560 go the opposite way and just make stuff less durable 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.360 and sell more of it. That's the whole point to 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.440 stimulate the economy. Because remember both these were written during 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.600 the depression, and they their idea was to stimulate the 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:04.640 economy me by artificially creating repeat customers that otherwise wouldn't 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.720 exist because the stuff that that you would go by 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.120 is too durable. Like if you go by a hose 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.200 and that hose is going to last you for the 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.960 rest of your life, and you're not in a business 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.720 where you need multiple hoses. You're just a homeowner business, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.920 you're a hosemaker. Well, I'm actually referring specifically to a 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.000 hose that my dad bought from Sears in the sixties. 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.000 He still had it until the nineties, and it sprung 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.880 a leak, and Sears used to guarantee everything that they 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.200 sold for a lifetime. My dad took it back to 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.560 his Sears and they gave him another hose in the nineties. Right. So, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.680 But the idea of a hose lasting thirtysomething years, let 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.360 alone being replaced when it, you know, for free when 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.520 it when it breaks like that was that was the problem. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.840 Stuff was just made too well. And you can actually 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.280 go on to like Etsy and eBay and sights like 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:03.200 that today, Chuck, And there's a whole um, a whole 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.360 like subculture I guess of people who buy vintage appliances 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.160 that's still work they were they they work like they 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:13.840 did the day you bought them. Like I saw a 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.960 Sunbeam mixer from nineteen thirty and it says like, works 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.960 perfectly well, has a few scuffs on it. That's it 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.520 from nineteen thirty. That's coming up on a hundred years ago. Yeah, 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.360 it also weighs two hundred and seventy five pounds and 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.720 it catches your house on fire, so you'll have to 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.960 pay a lot of money to have it shipped. But um, yeah, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.680 I mean it's crazy because that was this early planned 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:40.080 obsolescence was in the thirties and forties. When we think 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.760 of that's when they were making great stuff, and like 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.440 now it's progressed to the point where it's just like, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.720 let's just make pure garbage, but it won't last a year. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.680 The point originally was that that it would stimulate the 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.320 economy if you could sell the same person stuff multiple 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.080 times over their life, rather than making something that lasts 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.040 a generation so that they only have to buy the 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.760 one hose for their lifetime. Right, well, your dad has 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:12.920 two nicknames now, the herbal Elvis and uh one host Clark. Um, 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.280 all right, shall we take a break? I think so, 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:16.919 all right, let's take a break, and we're gonna come 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.240 back and talk about a man named Brooks Stevens. Right 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:41.119 after this shouldn't large, I was ski as sks should know. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:48.120 All right, So this idea is out there. Planned obsolescence, Um, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.760 it's been written down. It's a term really kind of 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.800 became more common in the nineteen fifties, even though it 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.040 was first written about in the early nineteen thirties. And 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.280 this is where a man named Brooks Stevens and ers. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.840 He was a Milwaukee industrial designer, and he did a 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.320 lot of stuff. He worked in the automobile industry, he 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.720 worked in the appliance industry. UM, and basically his whole 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.000 jam was no, no, no, we we need to make 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.919 things obsolete and not last very long because this is 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.600 good for industry. Right, Let's go get that bread. Yeah, 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.160 go get that bread and keep people working, keep people 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.560 making stuff. Uh. At a nineteen fifty four advertising conference, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.639 he gave a speech where he said, quote instilling in 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.920 the buyer the desire to own something a little newer, 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.160 a little better, a little sooner than is necessary. End quote. Yeah, 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.119 it's right there. Just make it a little crappier, a 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.479 little crudier, and you'll sell more of them over a 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.760 long period of time. I can take the long view 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.480 of it, and like, if you are looking at it 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.080 strictly from like an economic sense, like an academic sense, 0:18:55.560 --> 0:19:00.160 this just makes like total sense. It's perfectly norm moll 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.040 and rational and a kind of a good idea. But 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.200 it when you put it into practice. We've found. Um, 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.479 there's a lot of problems that start to emerge pretty quickly. Uh, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.479 and emerge so quickly that Um Brooks Stevens, you know, 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.520 gave that very famous speech, well famous among industrial designers, 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.359 but he gave he made that speech in nineteen fifty four. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.600 By nineteen sixty six years later, there was a popular 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.359 book by a guy named Vance Packard called The Waste Bakers, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:35.080 and it was basically about all the problems that come 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.120 from that kind of mentality that planned obsolescence creates, all 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.879 the waste associated with all the unnecessary consumerism, all the 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.200 keeping up with the joneses that emerges. Like just six 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.159 years after that speech, so really quickly people started to 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.920 see the problems with planned obsolescence, like right out of 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.679 the gate. Yeah, this Vance Packard, I think maybe we 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.360 could try and do a short stuff on yeah, easily, 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.960 just kind of reading up on him. He was a 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.679 sort of a pre Ralph Nader social critic um, and 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.120 I guess Nader was a little more toward like public safety. 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.840 But Fance Packard, he wrote a bunch of cool books 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.800 and essays, one called The Hidden Persuaders that tackled the 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:19.280 advertising industry and subliminal advertising and stuff like that. He 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.680 was like the arch enemy of Edward Burnet's I imagine. Yeah. Uh, 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.320 Thato was one called an essay called the Naked Society, 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.800 which had to do in the nineteen sixties, I think 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:35.280 about consumer privacy technol ahead of his time. Yeah. And 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.720 then the last thing he wrote in nine was called 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.360 the Ultra Rich colin how much is too Much? How 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.240 much is too much? Yeah? So he died a few 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.359 years later. Like up until the very end, was kind 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:52.199 of fighting the good fight for saying, what a you know, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:58.040 what a wasteful, invasive, gross society that we're building here 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.840 in the United States. Yeah. It was an interesting dude. 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.439 Definitely the kind of author that you know, guys like 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.439 um glad Well and Freedman and all of them started, 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.600 you know, followed in the footsteps of but he he 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:12.840 kind of laid the groundwork for that, that kind of 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.879 reporting on, you know, kind of the ugliness of the 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.920 society that sold to us. I think we should definitely 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.920 do uum a short stuff on him. Yeah. Okay, so 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:27.640 pinky swear swear Okay, Um, your pinky's cold. I don't 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.840 know that's soothing to me. Or frightening. It should be 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.439 a little frightening. I'm frightened by it because it feels sweaty. Guys, 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:40.400 I think Josh is dead. My nose just falls off 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:46.440 on to the table. God, let me put that back. Problem. Um. 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.239 The funny thing is, as long as you could keep 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.359 podcasting out probably like that's fine. Fine. Yeah, I like 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.080 corpse Josh. You buy me like a steel rod to 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.240 go in my spine for Christmas? Yeah, but I'd have 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:58.880 to buy one every couple of years because they don't 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.800 last like they It's true, they don't last like they 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.120 used to. That's another thing I really really want to 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.399 say this, chuck, because I'm sure too, especially some of 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:11.040 our younger listeners, we sound like a couple of like 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.320 they don't make it like they used to. Know, it's 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.880 proven they don't make things like they used to. It's 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.200 not just people like pining for the good old days 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.199 or anything like that. Like there is a definite progression 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.480 of um, increasing cruddiness among the stuff you buy, and 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:31.160 the shortening in the lifespan and durability of the things 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.080 we buy. It's just happening. Yeah, it's funny when I 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:38.200 see stuff on social media about people complaining about their 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.199 fridge that doesn't work this or that, and like, what 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:43.639 about the lemon law. I'm always just like, oh, that's cute. 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:46.840 I'm sure you're gonna get real far with the lemon law. 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:49.520 Although we should look into that for a short stuff too, 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:53.520 because there is such a thing. I just don't know how, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.440 you know, I'm sure we about it. We talked about 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.199 it before. Maybe where we How do we even did 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:06.560 a show years ago? Oh? Man, I harkened back to 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:09.720 that show pretty frequently, Like whenever I'm offered an extended warranty, 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.200 I'm like, wow, that sounds like a really good deal. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.120