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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from housetop works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Land and I'm Christian Savior. Yeah

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Speaker 1: all right, everybody, you ask for it, so you got it. Um,

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Speaker 1: everyone can really dig our creepy popta episode that we did,

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, we expect. We did it back in October,

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Speaker 1: doing our our slew of Halloween themed science the episode

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Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, And so if you haven't listened to

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Speaker 1: that one yet, I recommend you go back and listen

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Speaker 1: to it. But the basic premise was, uh if creepy

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Speaker 1: pastas are short horror stories that are kind of memes

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Speaker 1: written for the Internet or just based on images for

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Speaker 1: the Internet, right, and we took I think three of

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Speaker 1: them that were very science e oriented. It turns out

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Speaker 1: a couple of these things are are basically like such

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Speaker 1: and such thing happens in a mad laboratory, Chaos and sues, crazy,

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Speaker 1: experience gets out of hand, people pull their skin off,

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Speaker 1: people can't sleep, that sort of thing. And we used

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Speaker 1: it as a springboard to talk about actual science that

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Speaker 1: not so much the science behind the creepy pasta, but

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Speaker 1: the science that can still if you follow the tracks

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Speaker 1: of the science from the Creepy Pasta, then you can

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Speaker 1: get to some some really cool studies and whatnot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we took a look at three of them and

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Speaker 1: then there was a really positive response to that episode.

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Speaker 1: So we have been recommended over. You know, actually this

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Speaker 1: is a good opportunity to plug the ways to contact us.

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Speaker 1: People have contacted us on Facebook, on Twitter, on tumbler,

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Speaker 1: and then have emailed us directly asking us, hey do

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Speaker 1: more creepy pastas. Uh, and specifically they wanted us to

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Speaker 1: cover something called Jeff the Killer. And I was totally

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with this until it was sent to us. Uh

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Speaker 1: and uh, I gotta I gotta be honest, It's not exactly,

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Speaker 1: uh my favorite of the creepypostas I've read, but I

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Speaker 1: can see why it's compelling, especially it's largely based off

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Speaker 1: of just like a single image that looks like a

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Speaker 1: photoshop kind of creepy joker thing. Yeah, and the image itself.

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Speaker 1: I was sort of following the the leads. They're like,

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Speaker 1: where did it come from? And it's one of these

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Speaker 1: things where you know, somebody on some message board manipulated

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Speaker 1: an image someone else manipulated it, and then there's there's

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Speaker 1: some creepy tales about what the underlying image was. So

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Speaker 1: some of that is kind of compelling in the sort

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Speaker 1: of weird, creepy pasta Where did it come from? Let's

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Speaker 1: touch on that just a little bit further. So Aneline

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Speaker 1: Knew It's over at I O nine has an article

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Speaker 1: the uh that is basically like the expose of of

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Speaker 1: potentially where the image came from. And apparently some folks

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Speaker 1: over at four chan did some detective work and they

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Speaker 1: found out that the image that Jeff the Killer is

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Speaker 1: based on is a photoshopped image of a girl who

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Speaker 1: was being bullied. Uh. Was she being bullied on the

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Speaker 1: internet or in real life allegedly anyway, I don't know

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Speaker 1: to what extent that all, and and killed herself due

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Speaker 1: to the bullying. This is the again another story. There's

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Speaker 1: been no evidence to bring this up other than that

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Speaker 1: that there seems to be some connection and they they

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Speaker 1: brought up the photo and yet does it looks like

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Speaker 1: it's the original photo that this was photoshopped off? So

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Speaker 1: even the origin story of this image, this manipulated images

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Speaker 1: kind of kind of goes into like the creepier arthor

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Speaker 1: side of the Internet, which I think adds to its

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Speaker 1: it's appeal. Yeah, um, yeah, I get it. I mean

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it's necessarily true or not. I'm

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Speaker 1: like pretty sure Jeff the Killer itself is not true,

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Speaker 1: and we are not going to if you want to

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Speaker 1: read it, you know, stop the podcast, Google Jeff the Killer.

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Speaker 1: It's on the Creepy Pasta site. But the gist. You

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Speaker 1: want me to just throw the summary out there right now?

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I will. I do want to mention that

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Speaker 1: that this is one that, like some of the creepy

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Speaker 1: pastas out there, it's gotten to the point where authors

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Speaker 1: will step forward or authors or saying I wrote this

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning. This is one that does not

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Speaker 1: seem to have an attributed author. If I'm wrong on that,

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Speaker 1: let us know and we we'll give you know, proper

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Speaker 1: credit where it to do. But this one seems to

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Speaker 1: this is an older one. It seems to just they're

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Speaker 1: different versions of it. Most of them are not not

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Speaker 1: not not not the most well crafted bits of fiction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as with most creepy apastas, the the idea I think

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Speaker 1: is interesting with the prose execution kind of falls apart

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Speaker 1: a little bit. And I think that's part it, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's like, this is something it must be true.

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Speaker 1: It's written so poorly, right, it's like the Wikipedia stories. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it was written by five or six

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Speaker 1: different people who have come in and kind of punched

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Speaker 1: up certain sections drop And that is kind of the

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Speaker 1: magic of the true creepypasta. You know, it shouldn't read like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, a beginning horror rider is just dumping his

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Speaker 1: his whole draft on the internet. Yeah, that's true. Um So, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the premise of Jeff the Killer. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: there's this character named Jeff uh and he's a teenager

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Speaker 1: and he uh is like subject to leeing. He and

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Speaker 1: his brother. There's there's some implication in the version that

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Speaker 1: I read that there's like a switch that goes off

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Speaker 1: in his brain that kind of like unleashes his dark

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Speaker 1: primal side or something like that during this bullying. Uh

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Speaker 1: And there are multiple incidents in which, like he confronts

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Speaker 1: the bullies and basically beats the living hell out of them,

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Speaker 1: and then they show up at like a party or something.

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Speaker 1: There's another incident where they hold him at gunpoint in

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Speaker 1: front of his parents and other people. Uh and and

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Speaker 1: and basically torture him and it causes his face to

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Speaker 1: be burned. And so following this he goes insane and

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Speaker 1: joker style from the dark Knight cuts a smile into

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Speaker 1: his cheeks so he has a permanent smile, and then

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Speaker 1: he burns off his own eyelids so that he can

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Speaker 1: always see this smile. Uh. And then he subsequently you know,

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Speaker 1: this is the like an origin story myth of a

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Speaker 1: serial killer who goes from house to house. Uh and

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Speaker 1: before he kills his victims, he says, go to sleep.

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Speaker 1: I should also add no relation to killer Mike. Yeah, none,

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Speaker 1: none that I know of, though Jeff the Killer is

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Speaker 1: the supporter of Bernie Sanders. It turns out okay, but no. Um.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is is that so the story sort

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Speaker 1: of starts off as like a from the perspective of

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Speaker 1: somebody who's about to be killed by Jeff the Killer,

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Speaker 1: and then it kind of flings backwards and reveals the

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Speaker 1: origin of Jeff the Killer. Um. And it so you're

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Speaker 1: probably listening to this and going, where's the science? What

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Speaker 1: would possibly be about those of you out there who

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Speaker 1: are like these guys have gone a little bit over

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Speaker 1: the deep end with the monster horror stuff. We we

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Speaker 1: actually did a little bit of digging, and it turns

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Speaker 1: out uh not Jeff the Killer wise. But there's three

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Speaker 1: topics that we want to touch on here. Uh. One,

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Speaker 1: people giving themselves permanent smiles and the science of fake

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Speaker 1: smiling and how our minds react to it. To the

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Speaker 1: idea of eyelid replacement surgery, which is apparently much bigger

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Speaker 1: of a thing than I thought it would be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a rather complex procedure and

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Speaker 1: an important one in terms of reconstructive of plastic surgery.

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Speaker 1: And then the third one is that there's there is

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Speaker 1: a strong reality of acid attacks out there. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's largely common in countries uh in like Afghanistan, Cambodia,

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Speaker 1: I believe, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. All of these countries have

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Speaker 1: like pretty high incidents and I was shocked to find

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Speaker 1: out how often this happens. So well, we'll touch on

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Speaker 1: that briefly. Yeah, and that is that's going to be

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Speaker 1: you know, some dark, real life stuff there at the end,

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Speaker 1: but I encourage you to stick with it. We actually

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Speaker 1: had a discussion about whether we should actually discuss that, Like,

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Speaker 1: is it is it right to start a podcast off

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Speaker 1: with something kind of light and stupid and end up

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Speaker 1: in a dark and serious place. But I think so.

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Speaker 1: I think it's It's a topic that's worth if you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar with it, it's worth becoming familiar with this topic.

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Speaker 1: And this is probably one of the better opportunities for

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Speaker 1: us to discuss it, because it's not the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing we would do an entire episode on for this show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree. I mean I wasn't. Um. I was familiar

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Speaker 1: that this was a thing that happened occasionally, like that

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Speaker 1: I would hear about in the news, But when we

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Speaker 1: did the research for this episode, I was shocked to

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Speaker 1: find out how frequent it is. And uh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it deserves, you know, some time on this episode

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Speaker 1: and for people to learn a little bit more about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that I learned a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: it doing the research. So let's uh, let's let's start

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Speaker 1: off with the smiling thing. Okay, So this is a

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Speaker 1: recurring motive in our fiction, the idea of a sort

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Speaker 1: of creepy smile, right, um uh, it comes up over

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Speaker 1: and over again. Obviously, The thing most people think about

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Speaker 1: is the Joker for the Batman Villa and the Joker,

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Speaker 1: which varying depictions either like the dark nightyas the Glassgow

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Speaker 1: smile yeah, the Glassgow grind where it's been cut in

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Speaker 1: other times as a frozen grin ye, and what he's

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Speaker 1: wearing a like a face. Recently, I haven't really been

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Speaker 1: keeping up. Yeah, I think I haven't read that storyline either,

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Speaker 1: but my understanding is, yeah, he had his own face

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Speaker 1: cut off and then sewed it back on in a

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Speaker 1: smile it. But then I think they've already read contact,

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Speaker 1: so he's like that was just like for a year

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Speaker 1: or two or something, they but they basically wanted to

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Speaker 1: like up the gross out horror factor with a Joker,

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Speaker 1: and I think they've scaled back from that, probably because

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Speaker 1: they have that Suicide Squad movie coming out later this

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Speaker 1: summer with Jared Leto as the like punk rock uh

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Speaker 1: kid rock version version of the Joker. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 1: creepy fake smile. We you know, we encounter that throughout

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Speaker 1: our myth cycles. One of the one of the ones

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Speaker 1: that I really have been impressed with. And this is

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Speaker 1: a recent phenomenon dating back to around nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: and Japan's uh Nagasaki prefecture. Uh. This is uh the

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Speaker 1: the urban legend of the slit mouthed woman or Kuchasaki

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Speaker 1: Ona and uh basically the urban legend is that this

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Speaker 1: this woman was mutilated by her husband. Um. She he

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Speaker 1: like slits her the corners of her mouth. So she

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Speaker 1: has this slit uh slit face and her ghost wanders around,

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Speaker 1: comes up with people and ask do you think I'm beautiful?

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Speaker 1: And it's apparently like a whole program of how you respond, uh,

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Speaker 1: like if you say yes, she'll kill you one way,

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Speaker 1: if you say no, she'll kill you another. Um. But

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Speaker 1: you know, it's very well versed in this sort of

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Speaker 1: grotesque fake smile. Yeah. Yeah, so this seems to have

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Speaker 1: particular resonance in Asian cultures. Um. So there's that myth

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Speaker 1: I think of Ichi the Killer that MK a movie, UM,

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Speaker 1: which I guess is probably part of the inspiration for

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Speaker 1: where that Christopher Nolan Joker came from the idea of

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Speaker 1: the Glasgow We should probably explain what a Glasgow smile is.

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Speaker 1: Obviously the idea of the street gangs in Glasgow would

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Speaker 1: slice your face, uh, but give you a fake it

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Speaker 1: was sort of like their way to mark you. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I was surprised. I think the actor, I think

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Speaker 1: his name is Tommy Flanaganda from Sons of Anarchy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he actually has like somebody did that to him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea he was I think a DJ

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Speaker 1: back in the day because assaulted leaving the club. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well yeah, so that's a real thing. Um yeah, each

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Speaker 1: of the killer And then we're gonna find as we're

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Speaker 1: talking about it, like there's a big plastic surgery movement

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Speaker 1: in South Korea that's connected to this sort of enhanced

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Speaker 1: fake smile as well. Yeah, And of course if you

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Speaker 1: want to see a fake smile, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: turn to ghost stories and other cultures because they're everywhere,

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Speaker 1: right the politician, the car salesman, um me. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: like you know, I try my best and I guess

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Speaker 1: our stuff to believe in my promotion with those, but

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Speaker 1: I'm terrible. I'm one of those people that's just terrible

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Speaker 1: at smiling and photographs. And my wife teases me about

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Speaker 1: it all the time that I'm like that I look

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Speaker 1: even creepier when I'm trying to smile, and it's that

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Speaker 1: it's that thing where I'm smiling with my mouth but

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Speaker 1: not with my eyes. Yeah, it's because the smile, as

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Speaker 1: it turns out, is far more complex than just that

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Speaker 1: fake smile, and we can tell when somebody's fake smiling.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, it gets complicated, but it basically comes

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Speaker 1: down the way I always think about facial expressions is

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Speaker 1: your face is a communication array. You know, it's not

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Speaker 1: just about voice, it's not just about body and movements.

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Speaker 1: It it's it's about you know, where your eyes are looking,

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Speaker 1: what you'r what, all the expressions and micro spressions, how

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Speaker 1: they're coming together to communicate with another. Uh, facial communication array. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In nonverbal communications studies, Uh, outside of just body language,

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Speaker 1: like the broad study of body language, facial communication is huge,

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Speaker 1: and it adds a ton to how we communicate with

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Speaker 1: one another outside of you know, our our verbal communications. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: think about when you're talking on the phone, It's it's

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Speaker 1: much more limited compared to when you're talking to someone

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Speaker 1: face to face and you can actually see the different

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Speaker 1: ways they're communicating. I'm like waving in my face right now. Yea.

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Speaker 1: And of course these are the problems inherent in both

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Speaker 1: podcasting and email communication, especially So essentially though, there are

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Speaker 1: two types of smiles then you can think of as

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Speaker 1: the fake and the genuine smile. So first you have

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Speaker 1: the doucheen smile. And this is named for French physician

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Speaker 1: Gillama Duchen, who in eighteen sixty two conducted a slew

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Speaker 1: of experiments essentially electrocuting people's facial muscles into outrageous grins.

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Speaker 1: See like, we didn't really have to go too far

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Speaker 1: from Jeff the Killer through science to get to something

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Speaker 1: just as creepy electrocuting people's faces into smiles. Yeah, science

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Speaker 1: is inherently weird. So in these cases, the electrical current

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Speaker 1: activates contractions in two muscles, the voluntary zygomatic major, which

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Speaker 1: raises the corners of the mouth, and the involuntary orbicularious oculi,

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Speaker 1: which raises the cheeks and spreads crowth's feet across around

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Speaker 1: the eyes. And that's really that's the that's the part

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Speaker 1: that jin generates the idea of the real smile, right

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Speaker 1: at the crow's feet and the cheeks raising up um.

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Speaker 1: There's have also been research There has also been research

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Speaker 1: done that patients with damage to their motor cortex and

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Speaker 1: their brains left hemisphere. They can only smile asymmetrically, with

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Speaker 1: the right side not moving the way it should uh.

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Speaker 1: And here's the trick, though, if they laugh spontaneously they

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Speaker 1: smile normally, they they'll do one of the douchen uh

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Speaker 1: smiles without asymmetry. So likewise, when a patient with damage

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Speaker 1: to their anterior singulate, which is part of the limbic

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Speaker 1: system UH in your brain, when they try to smile,

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Speaker 1: there's no asymmetry. It's symmetrical. Uh. This whole thing leads

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Speaker 1: to the hypothesis that the fake smile, what is sometimes

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Speaker 1: referred to as the say, cheese smile, is controlled by

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Speaker 1: the mos or cortex, where the duchene smile is actually

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Speaker 1: controlled by the limbic system, which is the actual emotional

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Speaker 1: center of the brain. So it's two different parts of

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Speaker 1: the brain interacting. And not only does our brain generate

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Speaker 1: the smiles differently, but it responds to other people's versions

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Speaker 1: of these smiles differently. But of course this is because

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Speaker 1: so essentially we've we've outlined here that there is the

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Speaker 1: genuine smile, there's the fake smile. But of course can

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Speaker 1: we tell the difference are creepy smiles creepy because we

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Speaker 1: can see through the con well. A two thousand thirteen

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Speaker 1: study from the University of La Laguna, Spain investigated and

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Speaker 1: they found it on first glance test, subjects had a

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Speaker 1: very hard time recognizing that fake smile, which surprised me

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Speaker 1: because there are fake smiles out there that you you

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Speaker 1: look at it, and maybe it's more a matter of

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Speaker 1: projecting on that person, like this politician is smiling, it

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Speaker 1: must be fake. That's funny than you said, politician, because

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Speaker 1: that's where I immediately go to as well. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: dead smile of certain politicians. But yeah, there's another study

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Speaker 1: that was done out of North Eastern University in Boston

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Speaker 1: that found that two thirds of individuals can fake a

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Speaker 1: deucene smile well in a way that people can't distinguished,

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Speaker 1: They can't tell whether they're fake smiling or real smiling.

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Speaker 1: I'm not one of those two. I'm know I'm the

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Speaker 1: one third that can't do it because whenever I do it,

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Speaker 1: it looks like, you know, I'm dead inside, like I

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Speaker 1: look like Jeff the Killer. Well, then there's also this

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's this feeling daily interactions. Um, not me,

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Speaker 1: any of it, just everyone is that fake smiles are

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Speaker 1: kind of uh expected fake smiles, fake laughter. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're you're chatting with somebody and there ha ha, they're laughing,

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Speaker 1: they're smiling, and on some level I know that this

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Speaker 1: interaction is either maybe not completely fake but at least

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Speaker 1: punched up. Uh, And it feels okay because I expect that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is sort of the motions of every day like

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Speaker 1: human beings just trying to get it along, right. And

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Speaker 1: then there's sometimes maybe this says something more about me,

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Speaker 1: Like every the audience is gonna learn today that I

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Speaker 1: can't actually fake a smile and that I get irritated

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Speaker 1: by people who do fake smiles. But like I'll be

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Speaker 1: sitting there and overhearing kind of those you know, those

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Speaker 1: conversations where I know one person is angry at the

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Speaker 1: other person, but they're they're faking their way through it.

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Speaker 1: They're smiling, they're doing the kind of fake laughter that

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Speaker 1: to just kind of make their way through the conversation

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Speaker 1: and get get away from conflict, right, avoid conflict. That

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Speaker 1: drives me crazy. I'm conflict oriented, I guess, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is it's it's it's every day. It's every day

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Speaker 1: for human beings. Um, and it's there's tons of studies

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Speaker 1: into this. Like when we dove into this, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: well that you know the Jeff the killer smile things.

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Speaker 1: Sure there's gonna be a little bit of research into

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Speaker 1: the fake smiles. But it was like a sea of research.

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Speaker 1: I think we only script the top of it here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now to to return to that that Spanish when study

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Speaker 1: I was mentioning just a second ago, they found that

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Speaker 1: the longer they looked at the individual, the longer the

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Speaker 1: longer one person looked at the other person, uh, taking

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Speaker 1: in all the details of the expression, the more they

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Speaker 1: saw through uh the ruse. However, in the cases, test

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Speaker 1: subjects ultimately classified ambiguous smiles as happy, since their eyes

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Speaker 1: were drawn more to the smile than to the eyes.

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Speaker 1: And that probably has something to do, I would imagine.

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Speaker 1: With these were both done in Western societies. There's an

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Speaker 1: aversion to looking at people's eyes too long in Western culture.

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Speaker 1: In facial communication as well. I used to talk about

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Speaker 1: this with my students when I would I was teaching

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Speaker 1: communication classes that like, if you you know, obviously you're

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Speaker 1: expected to maintain eye contact for a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: times so that you can convey your interests, right, But

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Speaker 1: if you just stare directly into a person's eyes while

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Speaker 1: you're communicating and don't unlock. It becomes very uncomfortable pretty quickly,

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Speaker 1: right Uh, And so I wonder if that has something

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Speaker 1: to do with it as well. But also like the

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Speaker 1: crow's feet thing, right, Like that's a detail that becomes

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Speaker 1: more obvious the longer that you're staring at somebody too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I didn't stop staring at you this whole time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he didn't. He held he kept committed to the bit,

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Speaker 1: and I was the only one who got to stick

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Speaker 1: to it. I find myself in certain situations, Uh feel

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm playing a game of like staring

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Speaker 1: chicken with someone, and I'll become super conscious, am I

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Speaker 1: staring too long? It? Should I be breaking my eyes away?

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Speaker 1: How uncomfortable am I? And then sometimes I think, should

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Speaker 1: I just keep staring to maintain to like wine? And well,

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Speaker 1: that's there's something to that as well, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about in a second. Uh. But the whole thing is

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Speaker 1: super confusing to our brains too, right, Like, think about

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Speaker 1: our poor brains, Like it's trying to process generating these smells,

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Speaker 1: but then it's trying to also process like interpreting whether

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Speaker 1: these smells are genuine or not? Right, Uh, and U

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Speaker 1: c l a scientist named Marco I A. Caboni, I

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Speaker 1: believe it's how it's pronounced. Uh. He noted that our

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Speaker 1: brains are actually, you know, wired for sociability. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: We're social animals, and if we observe another person smile,

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Speaker 1: it mirrors the neurons in that person's brain. They will

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Speaker 1: light up in our own brains as if we are

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Speaker 1: smiling ourselves. Right, So there's that idea too, that like

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Speaker 1: the smile is contagious, and then which we're we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about as well today, that the smile itself,

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Speaker 1: whether it's genuine or not, generates happiness. Yeah. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the the issue is is not as cut and dry.

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Speaker 1: Now that being said, if the smile fake smile is

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Speaker 1: cut into the person's face, yeah, you're probably gonna catch up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your brain will probably figure that one out. For the

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Speaker 1: rest of us though, dealing with just normal fake smiles, Um,

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Speaker 1: you're probably wondering, how can you consciously detect one? Well,

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Speaker 1: we already mentioned that it's a little problematic, but according

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Speaker 1: to body language expert Nicholas Freed, it you look at

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Speaker 1: the crow's feet. Okay, look to look for their bottom teeth.

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Speaker 1: If you can't see them, might be a fake smile. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what that makes sense? Like, I guess when I think

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Speaker 1: of like really emphasizing the fake smile to the point

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Speaker 1: of like making it creepy on purpose, that's when you

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Speaker 1: like you really like bite down on the teeth and uh,

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Speaker 1: demonstrate your your your lower teeth. Yeah, I could see that,

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Speaker 1: but then like you've got to keep those those eyes dead.

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Speaker 1: No crow's feet. I wonder if people who know who

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Speaker 1: you know, naturally through aging or whatever, just have more

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Speaker 1: crow's feet are better at the faking thing. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that. I'm sure there's somewhere that we missed on that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, basically, the the involuntary movements of the orbicularious

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Speaker 1: oculi or key here. This can cause the eyes to close,

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Speaker 1: while fake smilers often keep their their upper face very still,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't work. It might He's a media lab

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Speaker 1: has developed an algorithm that allows machines to pinpoint fake

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Speaker 1: happiness and frustration as well, which leads to a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of uh, you know, potential applications in our our

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Speaker 1: cybernetic future. Right, you can have some sort of app

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Speaker 1: in your your eyeball or your glasses that can cue

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Speaker 1: you into fake. Yeah. It's it shows like the RoboCup display,

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Speaker 1: Like it shows the basis face and then like a

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Speaker 1: little thing comes up in It's like this person is faking. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's get into the faking part. Uh. There's some actual

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Speaker 1: science to the fake it till you make it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know idea of making yourself happy. Yeah. A two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve study from the University of Kansas studied how

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Speaker 1: smiling influences are recovery from stressful activities, and they found

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Speaker 1: that a genuine smile resulted in faster recovery time and

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Speaker 1: a more relaxed state. But even a fake smile can

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Speaker 1: force your emotional state to follow suit. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: this is the same study. I read a couple of

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Speaker 1: different studies, but I think this this is the one

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. The title has Grin and Barrett the

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Speaker 1: influence of manipulated positive facial expression on the Stress Response,

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Speaker 1: which is a pretty hilarious title of a Tara Craft

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Speaker 1: and Sarah Pressman. Uh and they is this the one

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Speaker 1: where they use chopsticks? Yeah? Okay, so they use chopsticks

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Speaker 1: to manipulate the facial muscles of a hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: nine different participants, and from my understanding, they did it

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Speaker 1: in a couple of different ways. I'd I didn't get

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Speaker 1: to see any like images, and I'm assuming they must

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Speaker 1: have taken pictures of video or something that went along

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Speaker 1: with this. But some of them they bit down on

426
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: the chopsticks. Others they like put the chopsticks in their

427
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: mouths horizontally, so it was pushing uh, their their cheeks up,

428
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: I think, um. But the general idea here was that

429
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: they had three different positions that they put their faces in.

430
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: There's the neutral expression, a standard smile, and the Duchen

431
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: smile uh. And then they subjected them when they've got

432
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: these chopsticks in their face, they subjected them to stress

433
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: inducing multitasking activities uh. And obviously this is more difficult

434
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: when you've got chopsticks shoved in your mouth. Uh. And

435
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: the results were basically that those who were instructed to

436
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: smile recovered from the stressful activity with a lower heart

437
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 1: rate than those with the neutral expressions. So the Deuchen

438
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: smile is the one that makes you the most relaxed.

439
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: That's kind of weird. Um, regardless of how you're actually feeling,

440
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: it will generate that relaxing feeling in you. And so

441
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: there's lots of other studies that seem to indicate that

442
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: the just smiling thing can produce a happy feeling. Uh.

443
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: And from our own home based site how stuff works

444
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: dot com, there's a article about the smiling happiness thing. UH.

445
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: It says that in nine nine Robert Zajenck I believe

446
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: I don't know how to pronounce that name z A

447
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: j O n c q uh sounds Eastern European to me. Um,

448
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: So sorry Robert. Uh. But he published a study where

449
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: he had his subjects repeat vowel sounds over and over again,

450
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: forcing their faces into various expressions. This is kind of

451
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: like I guess like isometric exercises, um, and so to

452
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: mimic a smile, they made an E sound to stretch

453
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: the corners of their mouth outward. Then they also tested

454
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: a long you sound, which is kind of like I

455
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: guess you, which forced the mouth into about And then

456
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: they reported their feelings after this, and of course, after

457
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: doing the E for a long time, they felt good,

458
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: and after doing the U sound for a long time

459
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: they felt bad. Now, his research proposes that there's a

460
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: physiological connection going on here between the facial changes and

461
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: the brain activities that are associated with happiness. And he

462
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: goes deep here. He says, Uh, the internal carotid artery.

463
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: This is the pipe that's kind of like above your mouth.

464
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: It delivers the majority of blood to the human brain.

465
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: It flows through an opening in our heads called the

466
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: cavernous sinus. And this contains a lot of our facial veins, right.

467
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: So the idea is that when we're smiling, those veins

468
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: are constricted and that cuts down on the flow of

469
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: blood to our brain. Uh. And this makes the temperature

470
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: in our brain drop, the blood of or at least

471
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: the blood drop. The idea here is that the cooler

472
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: your brain is, the better your emotions are going to be.

473
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: They're going to be good emotions, according to research, whereas

474
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: a war mer brain produces negative emotions. Interest. That's pretty wild. Yeah,

475
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: so um. His theory was basically that the reverse is

476
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: also true, that that when your muscles are frowning, that

477
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: increases the blood flow, which makes your brain warmer, which

478
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to be happy, which is interesting.

479
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, I guess I think about like the temperature

480
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: uh differences of various areas of the world where people live.

481
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: There must be some kind of studies on like whether

482
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: people who live in the Arctic, for instance, are uh,

483
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, more likely to be happy than I guess

484
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: like people who live near the equator. Yeah, but yeah,

485
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: I don't know to what extent they look to this

486
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: area that we're discussing here, which is essentially the like

487
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: the temperature constraints on the physical mechanisms of of facial happiness.

488
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: I believe that that's the same mechanism that causes brain

489
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: freeze to like when you're having like ice cream or

490
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: popsicle or something like that. I think it. Uh. We've

491
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: done research on this for an episode of brain Stuff,

492
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: the video show that Joe and I write on uh,

493
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: And I believe that that artery is what causes brain

494
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: freeze that like the at least I think that is.

495
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: You know, when you say that you and Joe have

496
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: done research on this, I'm imagining you guys going out front,

497
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: the two of us just eating ice cream until it

498
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: hurts so much and then like putting our heads in

499
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: m r I machines. Uh, if only, if only, but

500
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: so it gets even crazier. Okay, so we've got chopsticks

501
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: shoved in the face. We're talking about ice cream, right.

502
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: What about botox injections? Oh yeah, So if you inject

503
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: botox into your face, there's been research that shows that

504
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: it dampens your emotional responses, specifically the ones that paralyze

505
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: the small wrinkle causing muscles around the eyes, the crows feet. Yeah,

506
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: because you are interfering with the physical communication of emotion,

507
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: but in this week weird sense, it's also affecting how

508
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: you feel. Like we tend to think like here's the

509
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: puppet master and here's the puppet and we think that

510
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: everything's going on with the puppet Master is authentic and

511
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: everything on the outside is just it's shadow, it's expression.

512
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: But it's like the mind body connection. If everything is

513
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: is is hooked together, everything is connected here. Yeah, definitely,

514
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: to the point that it not only reduces your happiness,

515
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: it also reduces your depression as well. Um. So basically

516
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: what they did was they showed people who had had

517
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: botox injects and injections quote happy videos. So I'm imagining

518
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: this is like cats or something like yeah, uh, and

519
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: they recorded their emotional response to these things, and they

520
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: found that, yeah, both their depression rate and their happiness

521
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: rate were lowered. The effects were minder though, So I

522
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: don't want to like paint the idea here that people

523
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: turn into like emotionless robots when they get botox injections.

524
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: But they also did a study on the botox thing

525
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: at the University of Cardiff, and they found that the

526
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: people would smile injections, so that this is different from

527
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: the crow's feed injections. Uh, they're happier on average than

528
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: people who can frown with a botox uh. Scientists at

529
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: the Technical University of Munich also found that when they

530
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: scanned botox recipients with f m ri I machines while

531
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: those people were mimicking angry faces, they found that they

532
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: had much lower activity in their brain circuits involved with

533
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: emotional processing than those people who had not received botox treatment.

534
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: So it is possible that maybe we would feel less

535
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: pain if we weren't physically able to express it. So

536
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of an interesting turn of events on the

537
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: whole botox Yeah. Yeah, you think it goes one way

538
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: and then it flips the other here and then we

539
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: should of course mentioned that all of this goes back

540
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: to like the The granddaddy who who postulated a lot

541
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: of this was Charles Darwin, and he proposed way back

542
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two that facial expressions don't just reflect emotions,

543
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: but they caused them as well. Uh And he actually

544
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: is quoted as saying the free expression by outward signs

545
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: of an emotion intensive is it? And he observed this

546
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: in babies, and he said that babies that are born

547
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: blind smile the same as babies that are cited. And

548
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: the reason why, he thought was because at five weeks old,

549
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: babies start learning to smile. And the reason why is

550
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: that we learned that crying gets the attention of an adult,

551
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: but smiling keeps them there. So whether you can see

552
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: or not, you're able to um realize that that that

553
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: has some kind of a cause and effect. Alright, one

554
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: more thing I briefly mentioned this. So there's a connection

555
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 1: between people who fight, uh and sort of like dominance

556
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: in men specifically, and smiling as well. Research has been

557
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: done that shows that fighters who smile authentically at another

558
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: fighter before match are more likely to lose that match.

559
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Uh And and it's somehow linked smiling is somehow linked

560
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: to testosterone, Like our thought of how much testosterone you

561
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 1: have is linked to how authentic you're smiling. Uh. And

562
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: so I gotta wonder, like what does that do to

563
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: the whole fake smile system? Right? Does it indicate strengthen

564
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: or not? Uh? And smiling also can sometimes indicate dominance, right, Like,

565
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: if you're in a position of power, you may be

566
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: smiling authentically the other person because you can, right. Yeah,

567
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking, I'm instantly thinking of say brock Lesner smiling,

568
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: and if it's a fake smile or a real smile,

569
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: either one is terrifying if I'm in the wrong scenario

570
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: with brock les Yeah. They even found that the chimps

571
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: have two different kinds of smiles. They have a submission face,

572
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: So this is maybe a more interesting way for us

573
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: to think about our smiles. The submission face where their

574
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: lips are retracted and their lips are exposed. So this

575
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: is sort of like the equivalent of a dog like

576
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: laying down on its back right exposing it's it's belly. Uh.

577
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 1: And they have a playface where their lower jaws dropped

578
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: in the corners of their mouth are pulled back. But

579
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: so they have a whole dominance thing going on as

580
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: well with their smiles. So it's yeah, it's interesting you

581
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: bring this all back to Jeff the Killer. Uh. If

582
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: Jeff the Killer's smile is fake because he's cut it

583
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: into his own face, then the fake smile won't necessary.

584
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: I guess that does necessarily indicate that he's more dominant, right,

585
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: because the real smile would be submissive, and maybe he's happier.

586
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, he might be. Yeah, yeah, all right,

587
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick breaking when we come back,

588
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss some more smile science. We're gonna

589
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: discuss some some reconstructive surgery, and uh, eventually get to

590
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: this episode's more dark real world world conclusion. Hey, everybody,

591
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: you know how it is. You've got to have a

592
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: professional looking website. That's just how we represent ourselves in

593
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: this day and age. That's how you present yourself on

594
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 1: the Internet. The thing is, not all of us have

595
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: a big, fancy web designer to turn to. Not everybody

596
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: has the coding skills they need to build something up

597
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: from scratch, and that is where square space comes in.

598
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: Square space will give you the tools you need. Uh,

599
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: an interface that makes sense, and you can use all

600
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: of these elements to make the website that you've been

601
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: looking for, and you don't have to relearn or reinvent

602
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: coding to do it. Now we want you to try

603
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: this out for yourselves. Now is the time to build

604
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: that website you've been dreaming of. So head on over

605
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: to square space and use our promo code mind blown

606
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: to get ten percent off your first purchase and a

607
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Speaker 1: free domain name. So head on out there, build that

608
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: website with square Space. All right, we're back. We're talking

609
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: about killer Jeff. I mean, we're sort of talking about Jeff.

610
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: We're talking about scientific topics that that stem from contemplation

611
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: of this particular creepy pasta. Yeah, and we've hit a

612
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: lot of the smile science. But of course, you know,

613
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: some of you out there are wondering, is there any

614
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: science behind carving a smile into your own face? Is

615
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: there joker science? Because most depictions of it are it's

616
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: pretty crude, right, it's and it's the horror of like, oh,

617
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: facial mutilation. And this isn't a real smile at all.

618
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: This is like the worst, right I even think, like

619
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: I read like there's like one rumor that the photoshopped

620
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: image of Jeff the Killer like uses like parts of

621
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: a wolf's mouth. Maybe it's just a dog, but in

622
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: order to make the rictus look a little bit creepier.

623
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: But hey, it turns out that lots of people are

624
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: doing this, not like in their own bathroom with like

625
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: a carving knife or anything, but there is a whole

626
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: culture surrounding the plastic surgery of giving yourself a permanent smile. Yeah,

627
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: it just sounds familiar. It is because in August The

628
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: Atlantic reported on a growing surgical trend in South Korea.

629
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: Valentine angulo plastic also known as valentine mouth rejuvenation or

630
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: a corner of the mouth lift. And so it's apparently

631
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: called this because of the heart shape that it makes

632
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: when the muscle tissues are removed at your lips edges um.

633
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: If those of you out there, you know, like the

634
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: cupid's bow part of the mouth that I I know

635
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: this just from like drawing classes and like learning anatomy

636
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: and how to draw mouth and stuff. Cupid's bow is

637
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: sort of like the middle of your mouth, I guess,

638
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: like that area is sort of highlighted because of the

639
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: removal of the areas at the edges of the lips.

640
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: Each one of these procedures costs two thousand dollars, which

641
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about plastic surgery, but to me,

642
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: I was like, that's cheap. That's I don't know. Yeah,

643
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: is it cheap? I don't I don't know. Maybe maybe

644
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: plastic surgery is less than I thought it was. I

645
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: don't think I would I would be able to really know.

646
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: Is that is that Korean? Or I think that's the

647
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: Korean procedure? Yeah, see, I see, I don't know. I

648
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: can't really frame that in the reference of of Korean

649
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 1: surgical costs, but over there I feel like that would

650
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: be cheap. It seems like it. Yeah, um, okay, So

651
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: this brings us back to that Glasgow grin Glasgow's smile

652
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. Yeah, it's a it's a

653
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: little reminiscent of that, except you know, go ahead and

654
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: cast away any of the more grotesque ideas here, because yeah,

655
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: we are talking very slow light augmentation. Yeah, this isn't

656
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: This isn't Heath Ledger's joker like, like, how do you

657
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: think I got these scars? Kind of thing, like you

658
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: can barely tell from the photos that I saw. Yeah. Now,

659
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: of course, one of the things that that comes to

660
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: came to mind when I was reading about it is

661
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: that it's easy for these when you have a report

662
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: coming out of something that is supposedly a trend in

663
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: a foreign country, sometimes things get a little blown out

664
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: of proportion. For instance, I always always come back to

665
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: the bagel head thing. This was where which we have

666
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 1: an awesome post about on stuff about dot Com. Yeah,

667
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: it's a it's a fun one. But this was in

668
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: Japan where a few individuals, like a handful of people

669
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: have had silicone and injected into their head and to

670
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: make a forehead forehead to make a bowl. Yeah, just

671
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: under the skin and then they pressed their finger in

672
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: it and it kind of makes a bagel. Um. And

673
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: very few people have done this, but some of the

674
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: initial reporting, granted not The Atlantic but other other places reported,

675
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: oh says everyone is doing this, as if all the

676
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: teens in Japan are going out and having so any

677
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: time I read about a surgical procedure in another country

678
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: that if they trend, uh, you know, I always sort

679
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: of put my warning lights on a yeah, And I

680
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: do have to note, like none of the pieces I

681
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: read for this I don't think they gave numbers on

682
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: how many people were getting this done, but they did

683
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: say that it's very popular with people who work in

684
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: customer service. Yeah, like you know, flight attendants, secretary. I mean,

685
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: you can imagine any situation where that that facial communication

686
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: array interface with a client or a customer is vital.

687
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: And these are largely people in their twenties and thirties too.

688
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: I thought, probably because they're in that customer service sector,

689
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: they're being told like, you're not happy enough for for

690
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: the for the job or whatever, and so they get

691
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: this procedure done so they can make a career out

692
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: of it. Of course, there's a horrible thing to be

693
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: told I'm sorry, not happy enough for this job, but

694
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: the worst Like I kept thinking about that too, because

695
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: that's I don't know about you, but like as a kid,

696
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: I always got that like you don't smile enough kind

697
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: of thing, like why don't you smile more? That sort

698
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: of thing from teachers and stuff. And I know that

699
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: that's uh even worse for women, Like it's such a

700
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: gendered thing like, oh, you should smile more, you know. Um,

701
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: So I imagine that this probably plays into the angle

702
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: of plastic Yeah, so, um would definitely with the twenty

703
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: and thirty year olds. You're talking about people with with

704
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: naturally downturned mouth corners, and they're essentially just getting things

705
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: perked up a little bit. But also this surgery has

706
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: applications for aging people where you have downtrent turned corners

707
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: of the mouth and sort of downturned up lines in

708
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: general due to just facial aging. And so one of

709
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: the things that I read, I think it was a

710
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal blog post about this kind of surgery.

711
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: They stated that this has actually been around for over

712
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: fifty years in medical circles, and it was done here

713
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: in the West, but apparently very few plastic surgeons over

714
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: here performaive anymore. So that's curious to me. I wonder, um,

715
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: why not? I wonder. I wonder what it is about

716
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: Korean culture versus you know, Western culture that makes it

717
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: acceptable or not acceptable. I'm sure we have listeners who

718
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: are coming in or of a Korean descent who might

719
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: be able to give their own two Yeah, I would

720
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: love to hear more about it. And you know, um,

721
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: maybe somebody out there's got one of these. I don't know,

722
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: but I'm just curious about the whole thing it. I

723
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: have to say, like, I'm overall usually kind of dismissive

724
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: of the idea of plastic surgery, but in this case,

725
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: I can see, like I sort of well, I mean

726
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: plastic surgery and the cosmetic this is an easy This

727
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: is an easy thing to to to to fall in

728
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: that line on because because I feel like in our culture,

729
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: plastic surgery is often just the go to word for

730
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: unnecessarily plastics. But as we're as we're discussing this episode,

731
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: there's of course a larger plastic surgery that deals with

732
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: with with either you know, either correcting birth defects of

733
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: varying degrees or are dealing with injuries of varying degrees.

734
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: But again, pla surgery in the headline sense, it seems

735
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: like it always ends up referring to something that is

736
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 1: purely um, you know, purely cosmetic. But the but anyway,

737
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: the the idea of this particular surgery, Uh, it's really

738
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: interesting because on one hand, it's easy to look at

739
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: it and say, well, hey, you're getting a fake smile,

740
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: you're manipulating the natural facial expression of emotion. But the

741
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: counter argument is that, especially with age related negative lines

742
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: like those are warping your natural facial expressions. Those are

743
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: messing with your ability to convey your emotions through and

744
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: and communicate through your facial communication array. Yeah, and and

745
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: also how it's received to right, Like, So, like we

746
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: were talking earlier before the break about how people see

747
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: smiles and perceive them in uh, the kind of happiness

748
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: that that generates, or even like the kind of happiness

749
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: that just smiling on its own generates. So I'd be

750
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: curious to see a study on Valentine angled plasty and

751
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: the level of happiness amongst the people who have received

752
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: it versus I guess you know, they would have to

753
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: use like a h control group of people who don't

754
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: have it. All right, so we we've talked about smiles already,

755
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: But of course that's not the only, um, the only

756
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: aspect of Jeff the Killer here, right, So raises aren't

757
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: The story goes that in order to I guess see

758
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: how lovely his face is all the time, Uh, he

759
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: burns off or cuts off his eyelids. Um, And that's

760
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: not something that you normally see uh people do to themselves. However,

761
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: there are lots of occasions in which eyelids either need

762
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: to be replaced or fixed through surgery. This is a

763
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: good example of what we're just talking about with corrective surgery,

764
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: or people have been in like really horrible accidents and

765
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: need to have grafts put on because eyelids are an

766
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: important thing. Yeah, I have to admit that this is

767
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: an area that's it's fascinated fascinated me since I read

768
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: Larry McMurtry's novel Comanche Moon. So this isn't I'm not

769
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: familiar with this, all right, Well, it's it's ano same series,

770
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: the Lonesome Dove series, So there with those characters like

771
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: they they are in this book. It's like it I

772
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: think it comes before. It definitely comes before. But if

773
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: you if you haven't read it, you've probably maybe you've

774
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: seen it a bookstore and it just looks like a

775
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: big dick Western novel, right, But I have to tell

776
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: you it is. This is a weird book in respects

777
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: if he's just a lot of Comanche horse mysticism, and

778
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of torture and flaying, and in

779
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: particular there's a an already weird Texas Ranger character named

780
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: Captain Innish Skull. He winds up captured by a band

781
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: at warlord and then his tortures. Um there, you know,

782
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: they busied himself deciding just how much skin they're going

783
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: to remove from their various captives, and they finally decide, well,

784
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: we're just gonna take his eyelids. So they cut off

785
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: his eyelids so he can't turn his head away from

786
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: the horrors of the sun. But he eventually escapes in

787
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: the book, and he crafts a special set of glasses

788
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: with a system of varying shades to click through in

789
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: order to regulate the amount of light entering his eyes.

790
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: So it's it's really almost a kind of crazy, almost

791
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: steampunk notion. That is not what I would expect from

792
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: a lonesome dove book. Yeah it is, though it is

793
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: a weird, great a great book. I've tremendously enjoyed it. Well,

794
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: So eyelids themselves, though, you know, they do more than

795
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: filter light, right, So, I mean that is one of

796
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: the important features. Though, I mean you can't squint, you

797
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: can't you can't adjust to the lighting. It's always just

798
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: wide open all the time. Huh. So I'm guessing, I

799
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: guess what I'm trying to wrap my head around in

800
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: both of these fictional examples, is what what that would

801
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: do to the eyeball, Well, you would It definitely plays

802
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: into some of the other key reasons to have eyelids,

803
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: to begin with, moistening the eyeball via blinking, spreading to

804
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: your across the surface of the eyes, especially the moist cornea.

805
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: So like maybe as goggles need to like have a

806
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: little bit of i don't know, like a moisture trapped

807
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: inside of them. Yeah, yeah, like some sort of like

808
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: little clockwork orange squeezies on the side. So you know

809
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: that this is what Jeff would need in order to

810
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 1: turn his life around. Also, your eyelids protect your protected

811
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: just stuff from getting in there, all sense of debris

812
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: that's gonna blow around in the wind and help they

813
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: help keep perspiration out of the eyes as well. So

814
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: the key risk here is exposure care atopathy, which is

815
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: excessive dryness due to revealed eye especially during sleep. So

816
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: and and this is interesting as well, we'll discuss there

817
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 1: are surgical methods to either replace eyelids or to correct

818
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 1: eyelids that have either there's a birth effect or it's

819
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: an agent related to symptom. But without going into those surgeries,

820
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: the best you could do is to apply at nightly

821
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: dressing to the eyes, like with using bubble patches or

822
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: swim goggles, even to ensure that the eyes stay moist. Right, Yeah,

823
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: So you gotta wonder about this Jeff the killer myth

824
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: then that like, uh, you know, he's already kind of

825
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: a crazy serial killer who has done all this terrible

826
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: stuff to his face. But like, uh, he'd have like

827
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: some real eye problems unless he'd like put some swim

828
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: goggles on and dressed his eyes every night, I guess

829
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: every day, because he's probably a serial killer at night

830
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: when h and of course, and I don't know if

831
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: he would be more or less terrifying with swim goggles on. UM.

832
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: In his case though, if he wanted surgery, he's going

833
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: to happen because there are there are surgical techniques that

834
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: can be used to just correct minor. You're not getting

835
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: full coverage lots of academic articles about UM, different procedures

836
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: and methodologies for that kind of reconstructive surgery. And then

837
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: I think there's also like grafting that can be done

838
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 1: from other parts of your body, right right, yeah, now

839
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: with but with Jeff or with Captain Skull here, nothing

840
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: short of total upper and lower eyelid replacement. It's gonna

841
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: actually take care of thing. And this is the complex

842
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: surgical procedure in a series of procedures. Even a two

843
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: thousand two paper on this titled Treatment of bilateral severe

844
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: eyelid Burns with skin Graphs colon an Odyssey, which should

845
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: give you some idea if what we're dealing with here

846
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: in this case five operations over the course of five

847
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: years the individual. And then there's a two thousand eight

848
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: paper total and upper eyelid replacement following thermal burn using

849
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: an A L T flap. Case of report this chronicle

850
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: is the use of of free anterior lateral high that

851
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: thigh that's a LT thigh flaps uh. In the skin

852
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: graph procedure, cutting uh bits off of your own thigh

853
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: and then using those to graft in new eyelids. Yeah,

854
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: we're talking about a skin graphed here, and a rather

855
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: rather detailed uh one as well. Uh So, Yeah, it's

856
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: it's not it's not just as simple as just throwing

857
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: some some tissue back up over the eye. You have

858
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: to hook it into the the the existing muscles. Uh.

859
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: It's a complex procedure. But uh. In the case of

860
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: total eyelid loss, you know, a necessity. So as far

861
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: as our Jeff the Killer loose thread that we're following here,

862
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: the fake smile thing, yeah, there's some plausibility to that,

863
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: but it would be more like a Glasgow grin, I think,

864
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: than like the Valentine angle of plasty that we were

865
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: just talking about, unless he's really skilled with whatever whatever

866
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: blady he was using in his parents bathroom. Uh. And

867
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: then as far as this eyelid thing goes, I mean,

868
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you wouldn't get very far,

869
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: very long without eyelids unless like you had. Yeah, you're

870
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: constantly treating it yourself. I don't even know if the

871
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: goggles would cut it. Now at this point we're gonna

872
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: get into a little darker realistic territory. But I think

873
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: it's important because with with Jeff the Killer, we're essentially

874
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: talking about, Oh, this an individual discarred by fire or

875
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: or ask did and this and this makes them horrible somehow,

876
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: this makes them a monster, which of course is it's

877
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 1: a ridiculous notion, um. But but we have this idea

878
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: just throughout our horror culture, especially like you have just

879
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: all of these burnt creatures, you know, they're and then

880
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: they're they're awful and they're less human because of it,

881
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 1: which is which is completely ridiculous. So it's it's really

882
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: essential to I think, to to take that that that

883
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: cultural trope and then actually discuss uh, some some rather

884
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: depressing um facts about real life mutilation attacks that continue

885
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: to take place around the world. Yeah, I have to say,

886
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: like we talked about this a little at the top,

887
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: but I was just I was shocked at how prevalent

888
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: this is, UM. But I'm glad that there's a lot

889
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: of research being done on it. UM. In particular, there

890
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 1: were two sources that we we looked to here. One

891
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: was a really great BBC magazine article that was just

892
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: sort of about the general cultural problem of what are

893
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: called acid attacks, uh, And then we we also looked

894
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: at a thesis paper out of the University of North

895
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: Carolina by a woman named Jane Welsh, and it's called

896
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: it was Like Burning in Hell, a Comparative Exploration of

897
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: Acid Attack Violence, and she looks at the whole gamut

898
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: of acid attacks and like the last I think it's

899
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: like thirty years that this has become fairly prevalent UM

900
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: and really kind of breaks down the statistics and what

901
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: what can be done and what should be done about them.

902
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: So let's start with how jeez, how prevalent they actually are. Okay,

903
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: acid attacks skew heavily, as you would imagine, toward women

904
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: and girls. Eighty percent of them are done to women. Uh.

905
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: Thirty percent of those women are under the age of eighteen. Uh.

906
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: You may have heard about it recently happened in Zanzibar

907
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: to two women who are tourists. There has been a

908
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: couple of incidents in which there have been Western tourists

909
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: in other countries where this is more acceptable, and you know,

910
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: some somehow or another, it's they've offended someone and therefore

911
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: like an acid attack is perpetrated against them, and these

912
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: poor people, you know, have have to go back and

913
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: uh have surgeries to correct this. There's there's a lot

914
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: of literature on the surgeries themselves for this as well.

915
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: So this is some of the numbers that I was

916
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 1: able to accumulate for this. Just in England alone, which

917
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: is not one of the major countries that you read

918
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: about when you hear about these ascid attacks. In the

919
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: between eleven and twelve, there are a hundred and five

920
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: hospital admissions for what we're referred to there as assault

921
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: by corrosive substances. UH, so that covers more than acid,

922
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: but it's the same premise essentially. UH. Every year there

923
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: are more than fifteen hundred cases recorded. So those are

924
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: recorded ones. Other are the ones that are reported. UH.

925
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: There's an uh an organization that tracks this called Asset

926
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: Survivors Trust International. India has an increasing problem with this.

927
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: UH that the group that tracks that says that a

928
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: thousand of the incidents take place in India every year. UH.

929
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: They're they're disproportionately common in South Asia India, as they

930
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: just mentioned, they are also suspected to have very high

931
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: numbers in Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan and UH Cambodia. Yeah, and

932
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: so like many of the you know, every case is

933
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: a little different. But then a lot of the ones

934
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: that i've I've heard it entails, uh, you know, a

935
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: male proposition as a woman or tries to initiate some

936
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: sort of u uh sexual or romanic um relationship with them.

937
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: They are rejected and then their response is I am

938
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: going to deface you. I'm going to try to ruin

939
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: you by assaulting you with acid yeah, and so I

940
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: don't know the details specifically on those Western tourists, but

941
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: I suspect that that was probably the case. It's worth

942
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: deeper diving. Um And like we said at the top,

943
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: we didn't want to do a full episode on this,

944
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 1: but we do think that it bears covering. Um. Yeah,

945
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: it's it's about destroying someone's identity at the end of it, right,

946
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: Like that is the real aggression here. Uh And and strangely,

947
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of what Jeff the Killer is

948
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: a about. You know, if you can like do some

949
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: sort of thematic analysis of a creepy pasta like that,

950
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: if you do a far more serious reheat of the

951
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: pasta than it, yeah deserves the character Jeff starts off

952
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 1: as just kind of a junior high kid, like everyday

953
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: American kid who deals with like incessant bullying and his

954
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: brother getting thrown in jail, and then he's assaulted terribly

955
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: and literally changes his identity, right it makes him go crazy. Well,

956
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: I mean really, there are two main optacles here. I mean,

957
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: one is just the cultural challenge of keeping this from happening,

958
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: to to just you know, push this back into the past.

959
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: But on the other hand too. It's it's about the

960
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: victims as well. How the various programs and and uh

961
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: an outreach programs that are aimed at at helping these

962
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: women reclaim their lives, you know, and and help them

963
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: feel like like in a way, keeping their their attackers

964
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: from winning, keeping their attackers from achieving this warped sense

965
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: of victory they that they set out to accomplish. Yeah, absolutely,

966
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: because it's more than just about like the physical surgeries

967
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: involved to right, It's about the like psychological consequences of

968
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: losing your identity as such as it is. I don't

969
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: think that a lot of these attackers articulated that way,

970
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 1: but that's essentially what's going on. Yeah. The BBC piece

971
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: that I was listening to, which dealt with a cafe

972
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: that allows the place for these women to work and

973
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: also has support network for them. Like they mentioned that

974
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: in some of these cases, UH, the victim is is

975
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: it can no longer turn to their emily because there's

976
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: like this level of of shame that is a that

977
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: is applied to to their plight that they no longer

978
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: have a home because this this person assaulted them. Yeah,

979
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: and I think that that is largely UH cultural from

980
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: from the areas that these are committed into. Right, Like,

981
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: I'd like to think, I don't know, maybe it's not

982
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: the case, but I'd like to think in in our culture,

983
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: at least here in America, Uh, in the house, stuff, work, studio,

984
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: that that that you know, like that wouldn't happen. Well,

985
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: And that's the I mean, that's one of the things,

986
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: right is so much of us live with the privilege

987
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: of not having to know. You know, we can, we can,

988
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: we we can think, we can't help, but think what

989
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: would happen if this happened in my community, if this

990
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: happened in my family? Uh, how would one respond? How

991
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 1: does one react? And you know, luckily most of us

992
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: don't have to know. Well. Jane Welsh's thesis, she really

993
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: does a great job of breaking it down, and it's

994
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: it's much longer. I mean, I'm I'm just going to

995
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: summarize a few facts here. But she found that this

996
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: started somewhere around the nineteen sixties. So I was off

997
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: when I said thirty years. But it's it's thought to

998
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: have started in Cambodia as the earliest case of this

999
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: kind of violence. Uh, And since that time, it's become

1000
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: an epidemic there. Uh. And in the late nineties through

1001
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: two thousand five, acid was a favored weapon of choice

1002
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: for women and men looking to disfigure their rivals and

1003
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: settle scores. Uh and so uh some of the activists

1004
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: that are involved in this, they say that at least

1005
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: sixty people were attacked in one year alone. Well that's

1006
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: in the nineties. You know, we just read the stats

1007
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: for now and it's in thousand, um and and that

1008
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: it's both men and women who are doing the attacking,

1009
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: but you know more women are being attacked. Uh. And

1010
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: the reasons are listed as sexual jealousy, extramarital airs, land

1011
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: or business disputes, domestic violence, personal or family disputes, robbery

1012
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: or hate and revenge. And then it's usually a premeditated

1013
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: act that involves sulfuric, nitric or hydrochloric acid thrown at

1014
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: another person. So uh, you know, I don't know that

1015
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: there's like much deeper that we can go than that,

1016
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: other than you know, if I guess if those of

1017
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: you out there want to hear more on this, we

1018
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: can maybe do a future episode where we dig deep

1019
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: into the science of the surgeries involved. But honestly, like

1020
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: I read a few of those getting ready for this episode,

1021
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: and it was pretty deep diving. Like I think it

1022
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,399
Speaker 1: was a dense medical material that I didn't necessarily understand. Yeah,

1023
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: I think probably the best we can do is will

1024
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: make sure that the landing page for this episode will

1025
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: include links out to UM to some of the sources

1026
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: here as well as some organizations that have involved as

1027
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: somatomacity organizations. UM. A positive BBC story that here that

1028
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: alluded to already about the cafe. The title of that

1029
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: is the cafe helping to support acid attack victims in India.

1030
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: Believe it the dioplete peace Uh that I think I

1031
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: heard it on the radio initially. UM, that's worth checking

1032
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: out because it highlights not only the problem but also, uh,

1033
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 1: what's some of the efforts that are that are underway

1034
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: to to help the victims. So all right, let's like

1035
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: wrap this up and and try not to end it

1036
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: on like a super bummer note with the acid attacks thing,

1037
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: but as such as like let's go back and look

1038
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: at the Jeff the killer, I guess myth and in

1039
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: the realities involved. Right, So acid attacks, Yes, that's a thing,

1040
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: unfortunately more of a thing than we'd like it to

1041
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: be so sure, a kid named Jeff could have been

1042
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: attacked in such a way his face would have been

1043
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: burned away and he would be able to go back

1044
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: to his home. From when I was reading, there are

1045
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: no asset attack victims though, that go crazy and cut

1046
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: their mouths and cut their eyelids. That is that is

1047
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: purely a a fictional thing. Yeah. Um, the eyelid reconstructive surgery. Yes,

1048
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: that you can reconstruct lids. I suppose you could cut

1049
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: your own eyelid off, but I don't know necessarily that

1050
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: you would be a very functional serial killer without eyelids.

1051
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: And then when it comes down to the smile. Wow,

1052
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: is there a lot of research on that. Uh. But

1053
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, in the Jeff the Killer situation, I don't

1054
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: think he's doing like a cosmetic Valentine angle of plasty

1055
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: as much as like, you know, it's just kind of

1056
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: the Glasgow grin joker kind of thing, Eachi the killer type,

1057
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, the generic I guess it's become a generic

1058
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: trope now, jeez of like a sort of homicidal maniac

1059
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: who cuts themselves. All right, Well, there you have it.

1060
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: We stood up to the challenge. We took you asked

1061
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: for Jeff the killer. We gave got for him, We

1062
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: gave it to you. We explored some very fascinating science

1063
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: and cultural information. Uh. That, like I said, doesn't necessarily

1064
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: underlie that it's not like the the author and authors

1065
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: of that original Creepypops and inspired by these things. But

1066
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: in a sense, Jeff is composed is of all of

1067
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: these things. He's kind of like the cultural um, the

1068
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: cultural sludge kind of comes together and forms a figure

1069
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: like this, uh in our myth making. Yeah, well, it's certainly.

1070
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the science and psychology behind

1071
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: fake smiles certainly play into at least the sort of

1072
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: general trope of of this type of creepy pasta. Alright,

1073
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: so hey, if we were to do a third Creepy

1074
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: Pasta episode, which one would you like for us to tackle?

1075
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: Which one would you like to us to try and

1076
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: just dissect and and dig some slivers of science out. Yeah,

1077
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: you know, you can tell us about you first of all,

1078
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: tell us about other creepy pastas, even if they're not

1079
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: ones that you think we should cover, but you know,

1080
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: ideally we'd like to do them on the podcast. I

1081
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: was surprised at how many listeners popped up and we're like, yeah,

1082
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: check this one out and this one and this one.

1083
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: Like I think you know, even though you and I

1084
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: are big horror fans, uh, that like this is just

1085
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: an area of the medium or the genre. I suppose

1086
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: that we're not highly familiar with. UM. So yeah, if

1087
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: there's stuff out there that we're missing, let us know

1088
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: about it. You can always get in touch with us

1089
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumbler will blow the mind on

1090
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: all of those. Uh. We do periscope or Facebook live

1091
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: on Friday's Eastern Standard time around noon. Uh, And lately

1092
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:26,919
Speaker 1: we've been kind of switching back and forth between those

1093
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: two things. But you know, we'll let our audience know

1094
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: beforehand on on those platforms. Hey, this is what we're

1095
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: doing today before we we jump on one or the other.

1096
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: All right, if you want to get in touch with

1097
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: us via the old fashioned email, we can reach us

1098
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: at below the Mind. How to work dot com? Well

1099
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it

1100
01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: How stuff works dot Com? The f F four foot