WEBVTT - 80 Million Dollar "Justice" Served 8 Months Too Late

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, everybody. It is Sunday, December seventh, and one

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<v Speaker 1>of the largest monetary awards ever given for a wrongful

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<v Speaker 1>conviction case happened in the United States just in the

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<v Speaker 1>past few weeks and it was awarded unfortunately posthumously. Is

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<v Speaker 1>justice still served if it served after death, that's a question.

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<v Speaker 1>But eighty million dollars was awarded to the estate of

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<v Speaker 1>Daryl Boyd. That's not necessarily a household name, Babe Daryld Boyd,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was one of the Buffalo Five.

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<v Speaker 2>And even that, I think a lot of people might

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<v Speaker 2>not know that name, that story, that history of what

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<v Speaker 2>happened with his story. But we mentioned this Darl Boyd,

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<v Speaker 2>and yes, welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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<v Speaker 2>This has been a story. I don't know what This

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<v Speaker 2>is a question of justice. What does justice look like?

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<v Speaker 2>A life was taken from this man who ended up

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<v Speaker 2>on hard times and he should not be dead right now,

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<v Speaker 2>by all accounts, by bost accounts these days, was still

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<v Speaker 2>a young man. This is a weird, weird Yes, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna go with that weird story where we have a

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<v Speaker 2>conflict of what justice looks like. How do you make amends?

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<v Speaker 2>This is a guy who finally got what he's been

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<v Speaker 2>fighting for but never saw it ultimately come to pass.

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<v Speaker 1>He fought for it for every last moment of his life.

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<v Speaker 1>And perhaps maybe the silver lining was it was a

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<v Speaker 1>sweet moment to know that his family members were there

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<v Speaker 1>in the trial for every single day as his proxy.

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<v Speaker 1>His mother and his son attended this trial. We were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about Darryl Boyd, one of the Buffalo Five, And

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't know who the Buffalo Five was, I

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<v Speaker 1>was not familiar with this case.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to look it up.

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<v Speaker 1>But these were at the time, five black young men

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<v Speaker 1>boys who were wrongfully accused back in nineteen seventy six

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<v Speaker 1>of robbing and killing a sixty two year old white

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<v Speaker 1>man named William Crawford inside his home. So Daryl Boyd

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<v Speaker 1>was among this group of young men who were wrongfully accused.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you look and see what happened to Daryl

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<v Speaker 1>Boyd back in nineteen seventy six, he had a two

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<v Speaker 1>and a half week trial and the jury took just

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<v Speaker 1>one hour to convict him, and he spent decades in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>He was eventually released in nineteen ninety nine, but his

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<v Speaker 1>conviction wasn't vacated until twenty twenty one. And the really, really,

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<v Speaker 1>really sad part of this story is he didn't live

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<v Speaker 1>to see justice. He didn't live to see that verdict

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<v Speaker 1>where he was not only exonerated but compensated by eighty

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars that is one of the largest decisions ever

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<v Speaker 1>or basically financial.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't, they argue, his attorneys say, this is the

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<v Speaker 2>Some will tell you this is the largest ever award

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<v Speaker 2>given to someone who is wrong with.

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<v Speaker 1>Wrong, correct, correct, And so this is a huge historic

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<v Speaker 1>case and it's only well, there's a lot of reasons

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<v Speaker 1>why this is a sad story with maybe somewhat of

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<v Speaker 1>a happy ending, but it's just so sad that he

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<v Speaker 1>died of pancreatic cancer. He died in February of this

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<v Speaker 1>past year, February twenty six, twenty twenty five, while he

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<v Speaker 1>was fighting to clear his name and to get some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of justice. And and I love though, I love

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<v Speaker 1>it his mother and that his son were there every

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<v Speaker 1>single day of that trial.

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<v Speaker 2>How old was he? These were young guys.

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<v Speaker 1>They were teenagers when this was happening, was teenagers when

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<v Speaker 1>they were wrongfully convicted.

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<v Speaker 2>Fifty years ago. So these were still guys in their

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<v Speaker 2>early sixties for the most part, right early mid sixties,

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<v Speaker 2>and out of the Buffalo five is there, there's one

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<v Speaker 2>or two left, so I have that right. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is kind of a complicated story to a certain degree,

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<v Speaker 2>but these guys really did because of what happened, they

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<v Speaker 2>fell on some really hard times even though they finally

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<v Speaker 2>got these convictions and don't have it right. Robes. The

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<v Speaker 2>state essentially wants to continue to point out convictions were vacated.

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<v Speaker 2>They were never exonerated in court. No one in court

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<v Speaker 2>ever said you're not guilty. No one ever threw out

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<v Speaker 2>in that way in saying you didn't do that. They

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<v Speaker 2>still tried to hold onto way and they were still

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<v Speaker 2>fighting for I guess actual exoneration. Don't have that right, don't.

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<v Speaker 1>We see this all the time though, because the state,

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecutors. There's a lot of reasons why people don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to admit to any sort of prosecutorial misconduct. Namely

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably.

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<v Speaker 2>Ego but just that we got it wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no one wants to admit that from a political

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<v Speaker 1>or just egotistical standpoint, but also from a financial one

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<v Speaker 1>as well, because once you admit that someone did something

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<v Speaker 1>wrong to another Yeah, there is a financial repercussion. But

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<v Speaker 1>I love for me the fact that this was a

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<v Speaker 1>two and a half week trial and it took the

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<v Speaker 1>jury one hour, one hour to give the estate of

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<v Speaker 1>Darryl Boyd eighty million dollars. That sends a huge message.

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<v Speaker 1>And just to know that it took them, babe, one

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<v Speaker 1>hour to give that award, that is telling.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that it sends a message. Yes, are they

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<v Speaker 2>ever going to see that money?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it was the point necessarily of being

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<v Speaker 2>in court. But how do you right this kind of wrong?

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<v Speaker 2>How can you ever? Ever? We should never make a

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<v Speaker 2>mistake like this. He took these guys' lives, who couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>find jobs, who fell on hard times, who had kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of alcohol drug abuse problems in their lives. They couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>get lives back that were taken from them as teenagers.

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<v Speaker 2>This cannot, it should never happen. It sounds crazy that

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<v Speaker 2>you would. I would rather see a guilty man go

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<v Speaker 2>free than an innocent man be put in jail. We

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have to make that kind of decision. But damn,

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<v Speaker 2>you cannot do this to people. And he's dead now

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<v Speaker 2>because of what the state did. To him. I will

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely state, who knows what his life would have looked like,

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<v Speaker 2>it could have been thin.

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<v Speaker 1>About So he dies of pancreatic cancer, and look, anyone

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<v Speaker 1>who has had cancer, you start to wonder why, why me?

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<v Speaker 1>How did this happen to me? Especially when you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have family history, and any doctor will tell you stress, stress,

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<v Speaker 1>emotional stress. The toll that takes on your body is palpable.

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<v Speaker 1>It is document like, you can document it. It is

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<v Speaker 1>like there. I think that that would be a very

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<v Speaker 1>fair connection to make between the unbelievable stress this man

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<v Speaker 1>and this teenager faced. Yes, it cut his life short.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that is a very fair deduction to make

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<v Speaker 1>based on what you see this man, what he went

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<v Speaker 1>through to be wrongfully convicted as a teenager, as a

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<v Speaker 1>black teenager in nineteen seventy six, being accused of robbing

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<v Speaker 1>and killing a white.

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<v Speaker 2>Man in Buffalo. And again, Buffalo has a history of

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<v Speaker 2>racial strife. Let's it's certainly throw that out there. This

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<v Speaker 2>is Buffalo in nineteen seventy six, So maybe you like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>some people in this area will go, yes, that that

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<v Speaker 2>actually reads for Buffalo at that time, but this was specific.

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<v Speaker 2>What is this misdeeds, misdeeds of prosecutors and withholding evidence

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<v Speaker 2>is why these young fellas ended up having decades of

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<v Speaker 2>their lives taken away from them. That just cannot happen. So, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you applaud, You're happy to see, but is this eighty

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<v Speaker 2>million ever gonna get seen?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 2>They sued what this was the county?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Was it not this time? They already some of them

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<v Speaker 2>already got with four point seven million from the City

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<v Speaker 2>of Buffalo. So some money has been paid. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>ever make up for it?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 2>Not really? What does this mean? What do we do?

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<v Speaker 2>If nothing else? I hope this gets us to pay

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<v Speaker 2>attention more and more to our criminal justice system.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and we've been talking about, we have been covering

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<v Speaker 1>and we will continue to do so. Our execution schedule

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<v Speaker 1>in this country. And look, you can feel how you

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<v Speaker 1>feel about the death penalty, but this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those cases where okay, these young men were not given

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<v Speaker 1>the death penalty, actually shockingly, but it's New York so

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<v Speaker 1>that's why. But imagine if this were a death penalty case,

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<v Speaker 1>you cannot undo an execution, and you do see the disparity,

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<v Speaker 1>the unfair group of people who are put on death row.

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<v Speaker 1>It is undeniable. And so you see a case like

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<v Speaker 1>this where there is actual proof that prosecutors and investigators

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<v Speaker 1>acted illegally, like that is the best way to describe it.

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<v Speaker 1>So we saw and I just think about the fight

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<v Speaker 1>that this man had, Darryl Boyd had for his entire life,

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<v Speaker 1>but he ultimate only file a lawsuit in twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 1>And here is what the allegations were that the jury

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<v Speaker 1>bought and the jury sent a very telling verdict about

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutors did not disclose more than a dozen pieces of

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<v Speaker 1>evidence in this case that pointed to other suspects a

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<v Speaker 1>dozen pieces of evidence. They also can improve that investigators

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<v Speaker 1>coerced witnesses to give false statements. We see this all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Jail house informants, eyewitnesses, the worst kind of

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<v Speaker 1>evidence you could possibly notoriously historically has been proven are

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<v Speaker 1>just not reliable. And yet time and time again, how

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<v Speaker 1>often do we see people's lives hanging in the balance.

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<v Speaker 1>Their lives are determined by this type of testimony that

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<v Speaker 1>has been proven to be not reliable.

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<v Speaker 2>Including from one of the Buffalo Five. Only four of

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<v Speaker 2>the five ended up in prison because one of the

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<v Speaker 2>five testified against the other four that one robes. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know how soon after these convictions, but certainly now

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<v Speaker 2>has been screaming from the mountaintops that know, his testimony

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<v Speaker 2>against the other four was coursed. He did not mean it,

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<v Speaker 2>and he has taken he has recanted essentially everything he

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<v Speaker 2>said about the other four.

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<v Speaker 1>My goodness, And as we alluded to Erie County, that's buffalo.

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<v Speaker 1>They have already said they're going to appeal this judgment.

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<v Speaker 1>So of course, yes, the eighty million dollars hanging in

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<v Speaker 1>the balance.

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<v Speaker 2>They can't paign it like they literally do not have

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<v Speaker 2>the money. You can say what you want, they don't

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<v Speaker 2>have it. They got to figure something else out. But

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<v Speaker 2>they don't have eighty million floating around.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and I would say most jurisdictions do not. But

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<v Speaker 1>the idea idea is that this sends a message to

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<v Speaker 1>any community, any county who wants to go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>make false claims and build a case on false allegations

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<v Speaker 1>against someone. And that is important. But we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>get into what the reaction was from the Boyd family

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<v Speaker 1>on this verdict, on Erie County's reaction to this verdict,

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<v Speaker 1>and where it goes from here.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back, everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>We are talking about one of, if not the largest

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<v Speaker 1>award ever given in terms of money for a wrongful

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<v Speaker 1>conviction case in this country, Darryl Boyd, And sadly we

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<v Speaker 1>have to say the estate of Daryl Boyd was awarded

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<v Speaker 1>eighty million dollars by a jury of his peers. They

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<v Speaker 1>took an hour to come up with his verdict after

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<v Speaker 1>hearing all of the evidence of what Darryl Boyd had

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<v Speaker 1>to endure from the time he was a teenager wrongfully

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<v Speaker 1>accused of murdering a white man back in Gosh in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy six. He along with three others because they're

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<v Speaker 1>called the Buffalo Five, but one of the Buffalo five

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<v Speaker 1>was co Worce we now know, into testifying against four

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<v Speaker 1>other defendants who all paid the price for a crime

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<v Speaker 1>they did not actually commit. And so it is one

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<v Speaker 1>of these atrocities. And we hear about so many of

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately these young men being sent to death row. But

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<v Speaker 1>in a sense, yes, this young man, Darryl Boyd, spent

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<v Speaker 1>decades in prison and even longer trying to maintain his

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<v Speaker 1>innocence until posthumously, after he already died from pancreatic cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>His mother and his son were there when the verdict

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<v Speaker 1>was read by that jury, saying, you are owed eighty

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars for what you have suffered because of our

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<v Speaker 1>supposed justice system. And I wanted to read what Darryl

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<v Speaker 1>Boyd's reps said about this verdict because it was just,

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<v Speaker 1>it was heartrending. He lost his whole adult life to

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<v Speaker 1>this wrongful conviction. The jury heard how many years he

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<v Speaker 1>was suffering in maximum security prison. All the terrible things

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<v Speaker 1>you assume happened in prison happened in prison. And they

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<v Speaker 1>said he would not have spent forty five years asserting

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<v Speaker 1>his innocence and fighting for his liberty in connection with

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<v Speaker 1>the crime that he did not commit and had not

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<v Speaker 1>been for the misdeeds of prosecutors, police, all the people

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<v Speaker 1>who were involved in prosecuting him.

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<v Speaker 2>The tragedy of his life is directly attributable to the misdeeds,

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 2>as they say, of the state, and that just it

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 2>can never ever happen. Your heart goes out to these

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 2>folks that eighty million. Who knows how it's going to

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 2>be settled, how it's going to be resolved. I think

0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 2>that the county isn't necessarily arguing or that misdeeds were done.

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 2>It was just a matter of we can't pay this,

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 2>so we have to appeal this. How do you resolve this?

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, But these stories, there is nothing more

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.160
<v Speaker 2>tragic in our justice system than when someone, an innocent

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>person goes to prison. A guilty person going free is awful,

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 2>but we cannot ever have this happen.

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>And these are the kinds of judgments that make headlines.

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 1>And that's important because we learn about this is something.

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 1>This is a story I did not know about. Did

0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 1>you know about the Buffalo five?

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes? I did not.

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I will fully admit it's.

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Come up again. We had the Buffalo shooting at the

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 2>recently with the at the grocery store. Buffalo has a history,

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>Reflo just has a history, and these things come up.

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So for people who aren't and who weren't aware

0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.560
<v Speaker 1>or who weren't around when this was all making headlines,

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>this kind of a jury decision matters. Maybe not for

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 1>the fact that his family members are actually going to

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 1>get the eighty million dollars, but it makes enough headlines

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 1>where we're recognizing the injustice that occurred, the imbalance, and

0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 1>the comp how our justice system works, it's weighted heavily

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 1>towards those who have money for proper representation, who have

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 1>the ability to defend themselves, and those who do not.

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 1>And that is not a fair justice system, period. So

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>I do think it's interesting to at least read what

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Erie County Buffle low As in Erie County said in

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 1>reaction to this judgment. And this is telling because you

0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 1>pointed out TJ they don't have the money. But here

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.960
<v Speaker 1>is what they said. The county executive said this after

0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.800
<v Speaker 1>the jury's decision. I feel bad for mister Boyd who

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.360
<v Speaker 1>since passed, but we, the people of Erie County, have

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.199
<v Speaker 1>to pay for it. We don't have eighty million just

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.399
<v Speaker 1>sitting around to pay out. Sometimes I think these juries think, oh,

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.439
<v Speaker 1>the governments, they have all this money, but each and

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.679
<v Speaker 1>every one of us pays for it in the long run.

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.679
<v Speaker 1>We just think the amount of the judgment was excessive.

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 1>What do you think about that?

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we agree, but we can't pay. I mean, yes,

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 2>we agree wrong was done. This is awful, But those

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 2>folks now in those roles, weren't there in those roles

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 2>fifty years ago, and now they're trying to do right

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.119
<v Speaker 2>by their citizens and trying in some way maybe do

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.760
<v Speaker 2>right by this man who's done wrong by that government

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 2>that they now represent. I get it. I don't know

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the right thing now is to do with a man

0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.679
<v Speaker 2>is dead. His life was taken, not by pancreatic cancer,

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 2>I would argue, so this is just another tragedy all

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 2>around that we're trying to find something to learn from,

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:22.360
<v Speaker 2>something to learn from.

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's the whole point of talking about

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:30.360
<v Speaker 1>these cases and the importance of these cases, even when

0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 1>they're long overdue and perhaps never actually received. There is

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.320
<v Speaker 1>something to that jury's verdict in the honor of Daryl

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Boyd's name, who he was, and more importantly, who he

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.480
<v Speaker 1>was not. So thank you everyone for listening to us.

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.280
<v Speaker 1>We certainly appreciate it. I'm Mami Robock alongside TJ. Holmes.

0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to us as always, and we'll

0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>talk to you soon.

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Disna