WEBVTT - BONUS: Can a Dog Talk to a Cat?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Hoore Cham and in this short bonus episode, we're answering

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<v Speaker 1>the question can a cat talk to a dog? This

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<v Speaker 1>is a companion piece to our recent full episode about

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<v Speaker 1>animal communication. If you haven't listened to that one, be

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<v Speaker 1>sure to check it out. But in this mini episode,

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<v Speaker 1>I catch up to my friend and science fiction author

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Robinette Kowal. Mary Robinette was actually the first guest

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<v Speaker 1>we ever had on the program for the episode to

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<v Speaker 1>our Pets Lie to us, and I thought it'd be

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<v Speaker 1>great to check in with her since she's the one

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<v Speaker 1>who told us about the whole movement to teach pets

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<v Speaker 1>to talk. She's taught both her cat and her dog

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<v Speaker 1>to use a communication device, and so in this conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll finally find out what happens when a dog and

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<v Speaker 1>a cat speak the same language.

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<v Speaker 2>Joy.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, Mary Robinette, how are you. I'm good.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to see you again.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's so great to hear from you again, my

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<v Speaker 1>first guest ever. That's right, I feel so fancy And

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<v Speaker 1>now you're back.

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<v Speaker 2>I am happy to be back. You've done some pretty

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<v Speaker 2>cool episodes so far about different animals that I've been

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<v Speaker 2>excited to listen to.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, what did you think?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the one about animal's perceptions of death. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>pretty cool and parts of kind of intense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's been one of my favorite episodes to do. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's great to catch up with you. The last time

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<v Speaker 1>we talked, you asked this whether pets lie because you

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<v Speaker 1>had taught your cat to talk through the system, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I just wanted to learn a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about the origins of this with you. So when did

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<v Speaker 1>you first hear about this idea that you could maybe

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<v Speaker 1>teach your cat to talk? Sure?

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<v Speaker 2>So I was researching a novel. I wanted to look

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<v Speaker 2>into animal language acquisition and trying to get a sense

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<v Speaker 2>of what sort of vocabularies were plausible for an animal

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<v Speaker 2>to have, And in doing so, I stumbled across a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of different talking animal all accounts, one of which

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<v Speaker 2>was Christina Hunger and I saw it and initially was

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<v Speaker 2>very skeptical. But the more videos I watched, I started

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<v Speaker 2>watching what about Bunny and There's a sheep a doodle

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<v Speaker 2>and Billy speaks who was the first cat that was

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<v Speaker 2>doing this? And realized, oh, it doesn't actually matter if

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<v Speaker 2>it's a language, it is definitely communication.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So give me some examples of communication moments would

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<v Speaker 1>that have been significant or interesting?

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you the first one that made me go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the thing that's really happening. I think she

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<v Speaker 2>had only like five buttons or so at this point,

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<v Speaker 2>and she pressed open and I opened the door to

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<v Speaker 2>the apartment and she said open, and like, Elsie, the

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<v Speaker 2>door's open. Open, Open, Elsie, the door is open. And

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<v Speaker 2>then she says open help, and I'm like, okay, well

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<v Speaker 2>that's new. So I stood up and she walked away

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<v Speaker 2>from the button board to the bedroom door, which was closed,

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<v Speaker 2>and I opened the door and she be lined for

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<v Speaker 2>her water and started drinking, and I thought, this is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>And then after she finished drinking the water, she walked

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<v Speaker 2>back to the and she said open love you.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>What?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to read that any other way

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<v Speaker 2>than that she was thanking me with the tools that

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<v Speaker 2>she had available.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Can you please teach my teenage kids this fIF courtesy?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe just get your teenager some buttons?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that might be better. Yeah, you said you also

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<v Speaker 1>had an example where you're like, what's going on? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>So this is the one that I offer to people

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<v Speaker 2>as this is why you should do this with your pets.

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<v Speaker 2>So Elsie has a knee injury. We don't know what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>She sits with her leg sticking out to the side,

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<v Speaker 2>but the vets have checked it out and it's all

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<v Speaker 2>been fine and doesn't seem to cause her any problems.

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<v Speaker 2>And a couple of months ago, Elsie started saying various

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<v Speaker 2>combinations of leg and ouch. And because the system logs

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<v Speaker 2>her button presses automatically for me, I could see that

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<v Speaker 2>leg was not a word that she used very often

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<v Speaker 2>at all. She'd only used it two other times this year,

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<v Speaker 2>and not with the word ouch. Like I've seen her

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<v Speaker 2>say ouch and have a hair bowl or ouch when

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<v Speaker 2>her feelings are hurt, but like an ouch that was

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<v Speaker 2>new and so I feel a little alarmist. But I

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<v Speaker 2>contact the vet and I'm like, she has no new symptoms,

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<v Speaker 2>but she's saying this, so maybe she tweaked it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I make an appointment. The vet does a physical examination,

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<v Speaker 2>so she said, let's do imaging since she's reporting this,

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<v Speaker 2>And the imaging turned up an ACL injury and severe

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<v Speaker 2>arthritis WOOA, which we would not have spotted, so then

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<v Speaker 2>it gets even more like bonkers. The vet gives us

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<v Speaker 2>pain medication and I give it to Elsie that night,

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<v Speaker 2>and about twenty minutes after that, she goes to her

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<v Speaker 2>button board and she says thank you. And I had

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<v Speaker 2>to give her the medicine for a couple of nights running,

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<v Speaker 2>and every night after she got the medicine, she would

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<v Speaker 2>go to the board and she would say thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>So at this point Elsie now has the word medicine

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<v Speaker 2>on the board and she would ask for medication about

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<v Speaker 2>once a week. Wow, which meant that instead of having

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<v Speaker 2>to medicate her every day, she was opting in to

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<v Speaker 2>get medication on the days that her leg was bothering

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<v Speaker 2>her more.

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<v Speaker 1>As she's able to communicate it when she needed it.

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<v Speaker 2>When she needs it, So being able to do as

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<v Speaker 2>needed medication for an animal is a complete game changer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Okay, that's Mary Ruminant's cat Elsie. Now here's where

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<v Speaker 1>I asked her what happened when she also taught her

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<v Speaker 1>dog Guppy to dog using the buttons.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's called augmentative interspecies communication, and mostly the inner

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<v Speaker 2>species is human to animal, but there is some cross

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<v Speaker 2>species animal communication. I have seen her and Guppy talk

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<v Speaker 2>to each other with the buttons, and it doesn't happen often,

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<v Speaker 2>but one of them will initiate play by spressing the button.

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<v Speaker 1>Play meaning your cat, now talk to your dog via

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<v Speaker 1>those buttons?

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<v Speaker 2>Correct?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a bun for? Like, uh, what's up? Dog?

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of? Elsie has one hundred and thirty words, Guppy,

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<v Speaker 2>who's a smart dog. It's just very simple girl. And

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<v Speaker 2>so she's got eighteen words and basically thinks they all

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<v Speaker 2>mean either friend or outside.

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<v Speaker 1>She plaited kind of at eighteen words.

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<v Speaker 2>She could go farther, but the things that she wants

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<v Speaker 2>to communicate are just less complicated.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible. Well, I'll ask you how you're processing all

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<v Speaker 1>of this, but if you don't mind what happened with

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<v Speaker 1>the companion animal here, I'm asking Mary Robinette about another

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<v Speaker 1>cat he had called Helix.

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<v Speaker 2>So Helix was sick for a very long time. I

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<v Speaker 2>think he was probably sick from the moment he came

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<v Speaker 2>to us. We only had him for about two years.

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<v Speaker 2>He had good days and bad days, and we tried everything.

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<v Speaker 2>So we had to have him put down, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was a very very difficult decision. We didn't have Elsie watch,

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<v Speaker 2>but we did bring her in after he was gone

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about the fact that his ouch was all

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<v Speaker 2>done and that he was dead. And so that night, Elsie,

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<v Speaker 2>she was walking around the apartment. She smelled the spot

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<v Speaker 2>where we had had him, and then she went over

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<v Speaker 2>to his favorite chair, she smelled his bed, and then

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<v Speaker 2>she went to the button board and she said concerned,

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<v Speaker 2>and then she did the most plaintive mew and I

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<v Speaker 2>was just it was it was heartbreaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Four months later, she was wandering around the apartment and

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<v Speaker 2>just spontaneously, out of nowhere, she went to the board

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<v Speaker 2>and said, let's go Helix play.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, like she was trying to call him.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I don't remember the entire sequence, but I

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<v Speaker 2>remember the one time when I was attempting to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to her about the fact that he was gone. And

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<v Speaker 2>after we talked, I had left the room, gone into

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<v Speaker 2>the bedroom, and she goes over to her button board

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<v Speaker 2>and says something like, I don't understand sad ouch, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just like I saw the footage later and I

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<v Speaker 2>just like, I'm just sobbing.

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<v Speaker 1>On her own. She pressed it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so like she continues to talk about him.

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<v Speaker 2>He died in twenty twenty three, and she will occasionally

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<v Speaker 2>still just bring him up critical. Yeah, it feels like

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<v Speaker 2>I am in a fantasy novel or science fiction novel,

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<v Speaker 2>like somehow I got the D and D talk to

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<v Speaker 2>animals spell, I can do that now?

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<v Speaker 1>Wow? Yeah, tell me more about that. This is way

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<v Speaker 1>more than you were expecting.

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<v Speaker 2>So much more so, Like I'm a science fiction writer, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I am having conversations with a non human intelligence on

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<v Speaker 2>a daily basis in my home. Oh and that's the

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<v Speaker 2>other thing that I was not expecting. Across species, they

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<v Speaker 2>will use whatever their word is, whatever button you've put

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<v Speaker 2>down for excrement, the learners will use it as a

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<v Speaker 2>curse word. No what And so you give her the

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<v Speaker 2>word litter box and she will press that.

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<v Speaker 1>That means poop, that means crap.

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<v Speaker 2>It means this is some bullshit. Yeah from doom scrolling.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I get things like device all done? Oh really, litterbox?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Well, how did it feel to have your cat

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<v Speaker 1>called bullshit on you?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's usually right on the side.

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<v Speaker 1>She keeps you honest.

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<v Speaker 2>She does keep me honest.

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<v Speaker 1>So what have you learned about how CAD views the world?

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<v Speaker 2>There's a word called umveldt, which is the lins through

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<v Speaker 2>which someone experiences the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh huh.

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<v Speaker 2>And the idea is that every creature has a different

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<v Speaker 2>kind linsseet than humans. Do you know, like the mantis

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<v Speaker 2>from that have like all of these color ranges that

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<v Speaker 2>we can't see. Cats, they can see the same colors

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<v Speaker 2>that we can, but they have fifty times the synth

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<v Speaker 2>receptors that we do. And so talking to her, watching

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<v Speaker 2>the way she interacts the world with the things that

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<v Speaker 2>are important to her are just completely different than the

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<v Speaker 2>way I experience the world. I have so much more

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<v Speaker 2>understanding and appreciation for the fact that she has an

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<v Speaker 2>interior life.

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing, well awesome. Thanks for sharing all these stories, Mary

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<v Speaker 1>Roman It, I really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I am extremely happy to I'm always happy to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about my Dinna cat.

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<v Speaker 1>Be here to t out the full episode on animal communication.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, See you next time you've been

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