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Speaker 1: I gotta say, I just glanced over. I'd even cleaning

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Speaker 1: off the bookshelves lately, and so there's some rearranged books

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Speaker 1: and there's a stackling in its side, and the book

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Speaker 1: on the top is a Rick Steves travel book and

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Speaker 1: it's called Europe through the back Door. Listen, we had

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Speaker 1: this conversation and I was given that book. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember ever seeing it before. We were like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I want to explore Europe through the back Door,

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Speaker 1: but Rick Steves is the guy. I guess it does

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Speaker 1: have a lot of good information. Still, what a life.

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Speaker 1: I just want to get paid to go places and

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Speaker 1: tell people about how I went there. I already do

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Speaker 1: it so much, I know, for free. Yeah, hell, I

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Speaker 1: paid to It's almost you know, Christmas in the way

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Speaker 1: that we celebrate it. We got our tree up, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're commercial holiday celebrators around here. And so

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Speaker 1: we watched what we watched some TV episodes last night.

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Speaker 1: But it's almost movie time because the days leading up

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Speaker 1: to Christmas you gotta crank out the movies. So true.

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Speaker 1: What's what's your giving? Your top three? Well, Christmas Caro

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Speaker 1: number one easily easy. I mean, I still love home alone.

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Speaker 1: I could probably do it from memory, but it feels

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Speaker 1: so nostalgic. Spirited is kind of a new fade. I guess,

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Speaker 1: my god, why is it so good? It was so fun.

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Speaker 1: I also love Klaus the animated movie where he has

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Speaker 1: to go to the North Pole and make the post

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Speaker 1: office work and he invents writing letters, Cutlanta and stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's so fun and good and I love it. That

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Speaker 1: movie doesn't get the respect to deserve. That movie was

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Speaker 1: hand drawn. Still look like c G stop motion. It's

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Speaker 1: it's just like every animation silent once, but it was

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Speaker 1: all done by hand. Its gorgeous, it really is. The

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Speaker 1: voices are great, like, the cast is really great. The

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Speaker 1: story is really sweet, and I mean he goes up

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Speaker 1: there and the town is like horrible. It's like, okay, awesome.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's really mean to each other, so it's pretty funny.

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Speaker 1: I love it. It was. It was really good. It's

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Speaker 1: a really good for kind of a newer one. I guess.

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Speaker 1: I don't know new years ago. It was a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, seventeen or something like that. It sounds right.

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Speaker 1: It's on Netflix. It's really good. Yeah, Muppets is so good.

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Speaker 1: Clouds is great. I also really weirdly love The Guardians.

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Speaker 1: What's it called, Oh, Rise the Guardians. Yes, that's a

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Speaker 1: great movie. Jack Frost and Santa and the Easter Bunny

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Speaker 1: and Fairy and all that. Baldwin is like this slavic

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Speaker 1: Santa Clause this big Zoe, which makes sense. It seems

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Speaker 1: like Santa Claus a bee would have like a SMaL

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Speaker 1: barty in accent or something totally, but he's like like tattoos.

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Speaker 1: It's dude. I remember seeing trailers for this movie going

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Speaker 1: and really rolling my eyes and the game looked dumb,

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Speaker 1: but it was. It was really charming. It's a really

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Speaker 1: sweet story. I loved it. I love Jack Frost, well,

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Speaker 1: you love Crispine. I do love christ Whatever I'm interested

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Speaker 1: look right off the bat, I'm just gonna say, send

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Speaker 1: us your favorite Christmas movies, because we always like recommendations.

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Speaker 1: And there's a bunch we haven't seen. There are a

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Speaker 1: bunch we haven't seen, and sometimes it's just like that,

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Speaker 1: you see one and you're like, no, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to see that, and then then somebody tells you, like no, seriously,

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Speaker 1: do it, and it's worth watching and and ends up

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Speaker 1: being one of your favorites. So shoot us your lists

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Speaker 1: would love to hear him. Well, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into our story today. And this was sparked by a

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Speaker 1: little Christmas idea because we were looking at Charles Dickens,

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Speaker 1: you know Mr Christmas, and he has you might have

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Speaker 1: heard quite a silly story involving the author Hans Christian Anderson.

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Speaker 1: Well that led us to Hans Christian Anderson. And this

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Speaker 1: guy's love story is out of this world. But the

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Speaker 1: man himself is very interesting. So we really wanted to

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Speaker 1: get into that today because you know author Hans Christian Anderson.

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Speaker 1: He's most well known for stories like Thumblina, the Princess

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Speaker 1: and the Pa the Snow Queen, on which Frozen is

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Speaker 1: very loosely based, and of course The Little Mermaid, on

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Speaker 1: which The Little Mermaid is sort of loosely based. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: Hans was a tall, awkward, odd looking man who was

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Speaker 1: a self proclaimed virgin his entire life, but not for

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Speaker 1: lack of trying. He felt deeply in love with men

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Speaker 1: and women alike, but they were always people that he

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Speaker 1: knew he could never get. But he turned his heartbreak

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Speaker 1: into fairy tales and gave the world some of its

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Speaker 1: most classic children's stories. So let's hear all about the

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Speaker 1: awkward love of Hans Christian Anderson, and then in our

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Speaker 1: next episode we'll tell just the story of him and

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Speaker 1: Charles Dickens. Let's do this, Hey the French, come listen. Well,

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Speaker 1: Eli and Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking,

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Speaker 1: a romantic tips. It's just about pridiculous relationships a lover.

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Speaker 1: It might be any type of person at all, and

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Speaker 1: abstract consent are a concrete wall. But if there's a

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Speaker 1: story where the second glance, we'll show ridiculous role. That's

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hans Christian Anderson was

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Speaker 1: born in Odense, Denmark, in eighteen o five, and his

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Speaker 1: parents were poor. His father was a twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old man also named Hans, and he was just a shoemaker.

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Speaker 1: He had almost no education, and his mother was a

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Speaker 1: forty year old woman named Anna Maria and hers daughter

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Speaker 1: a big age gap between those two. Now. She washed

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Speaker 1: laundry for neighbors to help with the family income. But

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Speaker 1: though they had little to their name, his parents really

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Speaker 1: cared for him and they spoiled him as much as

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Speaker 1: they could, and they would build their own toys for him,

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Speaker 1: and they would encourage him to use his imagination to

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Speaker 1: entertain himself, because they couldn't just go out and you know,

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Speaker 1: by a PlayStation or Dikolie Elmo or whatever it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his father would read to him at night from Arabian

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Speaker 1: nights and this gave Hans a real love of fantasy

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Speaker 1: and adventure stories. And like I said, this kid is

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Speaker 1: kind of tall, it's really awkward. He was gangly, but

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Speaker 1: he loved singing and dancing. He looked very silly doing it,

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Speaker 1: but he just didn't care. That's how we should all being. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just do it. It's so good for you. I wish

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Speaker 1: I know some like tall, gangly clown types and I

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Speaker 1: love them singing dancing around. That's great. I often was

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Speaker 1: like I would do it more if I was, like

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Speaker 1: if I look like a marionette. Absolutely Sadly, Hans's father

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Speaker 1: died in eighteen sixteen, when Hans was just eleven years old,

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Speaker 1: and the next year his mother remarried and Hans started

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Speaker 1: going to a local school for poor children. He got

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Speaker 1: a very basic education there, but like any time you

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Speaker 1: go to school, he was also teased a lot for

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Speaker 1: being odd looking and wearing cheap, hand me down clothes.

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Speaker 1: They were like, where are your air Force ones or

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Speaker 1: something cooler from today? Air a shoe. Yeah, Nelly had

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Speaker 1: a whole song about it. Look, this is me dating myself,

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Speaker 1: but that's what was really in. It's you dating yourself

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Speaker 1: and me showing how outside of pop culture I am.

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Speaker 1: We both sounded real cool. Just when Hans was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: he managed to move to Copenhagen to find other weirdos

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Speaker 1: like himself. The purpose of life, in my opinion, is

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Speaker 1: to find your weirdos, and he wanted to pursue his

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Speaker 1: dreams of being an actor and a singer. He was

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Speaker 1: actually quite a talented soprano, so he was quickly accepted

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Speaker 1: to the Royal Danish Theater in Copenhagen. Good job, Hans. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: shortly after being accepted, his voice change. I was a

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Speaker 1: soprano when I was a kid. Oh yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: a very high pitched singer. Yeah, they gave me solos.

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Speaker 1: They're like, some of the girls can't hit these notes.

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Speaker 1: It must be tough for a person looking for good singers,

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Speaker 1: like a choir director. And you find this prepubiscent boy.

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Speaker 1: So the most beautiful, angelous voice and you're like, I

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Speaker 1: sort of want to go back to the times when

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Speaker 1: we could make you a Unich so he could present forever.

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Speaker 1: Coral instructors didn't think that. I mean, I'm glad we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't away from that practice. But I bet there's a

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Speaker 1: choir director out there who has every now and then

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Speaker 1: been like in a different age I was. I was

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Speaker 1: a star soprano as a child. So maybe maybe it

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Speaker 1: was considered so he couldn't pursue the soprano dream like

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Speaker 1: he had had before. But one of his colleagues at

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Speaker 1: the theater had told Hans, dude, you are a poet.

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Speaker 1: And Hans took that and ran with it, and he

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Speaker 1: started writing like crazy. Now. One of the directors at

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Speaker 1: the Royal Danish Theater, Jonas Colin, saw a lot of

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Speaker 1: potential for this kid, and he said, all right, you

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Speaker 1: know what, You're gonna be a poet. You're gonna be

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Speaker 1: a writer. I'm sending you to grammar school in and

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Speaker 1: Hans is like, you kid me in that place is

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Speaker 1: so expensive, like my mother washes laundry. I cannot pay

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Speaker 1: for this one day. It's right. Well, Jonas Collins said,

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Speaker 1: don't you worry about that? Kid, We're going to make

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Speaker 1: it work. And he believed so hard in this boy,

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Speaker 1: and he had such good connections that he managed to

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Speaker 1: get Hans's tuition covered by King Frederick the Six. And

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Speaker 1: you might wonder why King Frederick the six was paying

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Speaker 1: for this random, poor kid to go to this expensive

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Speaker 1: grammar school. Well there's a little bit of a conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theory behind this. And here, as our friend and producer

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Speaker 1: Ben Bolan puts, it is where it gets crazy. Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Times published an article in that says, for years,

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Speaker 1: Hans Christian Andersen's biographers haven't really trusted the author's own

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Speaker 1: story about his birth. According to biographer Yen's Jorgensen, at

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Speaker 1: Broholm Castle, a seventeen year old noble girl named Elise

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Speaker 1: as felt Larvig was known to be pregnant out of

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Speaker 1: wedlock in eighteen o five, around the time that Hans

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Speaker 1: Christian Andersen was born. The next year she married Crown

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Speaker 1: Prince Christian of Denmark against everyone's wishes, and the whole

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Speaker 1: marriage was brief, happy and kept pretty quiet. But the

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Speaker 1: child she was pregnant with before their marriage, there is

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Speaker 1: no record of. Yeah, this Prince Christian of Denmark who

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Speaker 1: went on to be king in his Wikipedia in any

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Speaker 1: articles I could find about him, no mention of Elise

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Speaker 1: ali felt Larvic, but in documents about her she definitely

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Speaker 1: was in love with them and was briefly married to him.

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Speaker 1: But they really were just like she's It was a

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Speaker 1: class thing, like she was out of his class. So

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Speaker 1: it was this marriage nobody was really happy about. And

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Speaker 1: they also allegedly had a second child together after they

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Speaker 1: were married, a daughter who was hidden away and taken

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Speaker 1: away from Denmark. Damn and get this, at Castle Broholm

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Speaker 1: there was a housekeeper named Anna Maria and HER's daughter

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Speaker 1: the exact name of Hans Christian Anderson's mother. And after

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Speaker 1: eighteen o five, when this woman was Ignanton, then mysteriously

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Speaker 1: not there's suddenly no record of Anna Maria anderstaughter working

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Speaker 1: at Castle Broholm anymore. Suddenly, around the same time, this

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Speaker 1: forty year old woman shows up in a village with

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Speaker 1: a brand new baby. And wherever this twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old husband came from. Okay, if that's not suspicious enough.

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Speaker 1: Crown Prince Christian, who like I said, would later be

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Speaker 1: King Christian the eighth of Denmark. Apparently he had ten

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Speaker 1: children outside of his marriages, and all of them were

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Speaker 1: diligently provided for. So if it felt a little weird

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Speaker 1: to you that the royal purse was being used to

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Speaker 1: pay for this random, poor child's education, then this conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theory might be the answer for you. I mean, sounds

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Speaker 1: legit right now. None of this is officially proven, of course,

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Speaker 1: and other scholars highly doubt the claim. But Jorgensen, who

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties was actually the principle of the

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Speaker 1: slay Elsa school where Hans Christian Andersen study, wrote in

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Speaker 1: his biography that in the time that Hans attended school there,

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Speaker 1: townspoke wrote letters to each other talking about how amazed

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Speaker 1: they were with just how often Prince Christian visited this

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Speaker 1: small town. What's he doing here again? What is there

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Speaker 1: to see in Slasa? He comes to see every school play,

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Speaker 1: every baseball game. It's almost like his son is there.

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Speaker 1: Jorgenson also checked the records and saw that Anderson's tuition

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Speaker 1: was more than twice the usual costs to go to

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Speaker 1: that school, like they paid double to go to that school,

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Speaker 1: and all the payments were traced back to the royal family.

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Speaker 1: Even stranger Anderson's name never appears on the rolls. Jorgenson wrote, quote,

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Speaker 1: to enroll, you had to show a birth certificate, but

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Speaker 1: Hans didn't have one. That's so wild. I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: believe this more and more. And it's true. Hans Christian

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Speaker 1: Anderson did not get a birth certificate get until he

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Speaker 1: was seventeen years old in November. So random noble girl

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Speaker 1: has a baby that disappears, and at the same time

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Speaker 1: a housemaid with the same exact name as his mother

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Speaker 1: suddenly has a baby at forty years old with a

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Speaker 1: two year old band. And then that baby is cared

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Speaker 1: for by the royal family for his whole life. Come

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Speaker 1: on and visited and visited. Was he born of a

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Speaker 1: secret romance between the crown prince and a noble girl?

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Speaker 1: Did they just hand this baby off and promised to

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Speaker 1: make sure his life was comfortable? This biographer Jorgenson really

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Speaker 1: makes it seem like that was the exact case, and

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Speaker 1: to me, it just seems like that's got to be

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Speaker 1: what's happened, right, It's too obvious. They didn't even do

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Speaker 1: a very good job at covering it up from my perspective.

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Speaker 1: But the Hans Christian Anderson Center in Denmark says Jorgenson's

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Speaker 1: theories quote rest on a scandalous abuse of sources and

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Speaker 1: have been phatically denounced by experts on King Christian eighth.

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Speaker 1: But of course, as with many conspiracy theories, those denouncements

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Speaker 1: have only furthered people's belief in the idea. Well, why

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Speaker 1: are you trying to cover it up? Then? I know

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Speaker 1: right now it's a little strange. Christian Anderson technically might

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Speaker 1: have been heir to the throne of Denmark. Weird, and

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Speaker 1: if I know one thing about heirs to the throne

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Speaker 1: of Denmark. Uh, those stories always end well and they're

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Speaker 1: kind of whiny. Well, whoever his parents were, and for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, the royal family paid his tuition. Hans Christian

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Speaker 1: Anderson was actually not a great student. Dam You know,

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Speaker 1: the king wants you to be here in maybe you

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Speaker 1: should apply yourself. No, he was very weak. It's spelling.

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Speaker 1: He could not write formally, which, according to famous author's

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Speaker 1: dot org Is quote, probably why his writing style was simplistic,

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Speaker 1: with everyday spoken language, something that would later prove to

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Speaker 1: be more of a feature than a bug. Right's set

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Speaker 1: his writing apart. Yeah, his basic simple children's writing was

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Speaker 1: like what made his stuff so easy? To read and

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Speaker 1: what made children love it so much? Yeah? Absolutely, But

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Speaker 1: at the time his headmaster was cruel and his instructors

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Speaker 1: discouraged him from writing, which made him really depressed. But

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Speaker 1: he persevered and he managed to finish school in eighteen

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, at which point he fiercely dedicated himself back

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Speaker 1: to writing again. He had written some short stories during school,

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Speaker 1: despite the discouragement he got. He had had a few

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Speaker 1: little things published here and there, so he knew that

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Speaker 1: this was a potential future for him still, and the

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Speaker 1: next year after graduating, he published a short story called

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Speaker 1: a Journey on Foot from Holman's Canal to the East

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Speaker 1: Point of Amager, and he found decent success with that

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Speaker 1: publication short story long title. Yes. In eighteen thirty three,

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Speaker 1: he got himself a little grant from the King other

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Speaker 1: random little benefit from the royal family here, dude, I

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Speaker 1: mean King and Christian. Now, this grant allowed him to

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Speaker 1: travel all across Europe, and while he's doing this, he's

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Speaker 1: hearing local folk tales and fables, and he's taken in

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Speaker 1: all these random stories and different cultures. And this allowed

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Speaker 1: him to eventually write multiple collections of fairy tales that

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Speaker 1: he released I think in three volumes, and these included Thumb, Bolina,

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Speaker 1: the Princess and The pa Tom Thumb, The Emperor's New Clothes,

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Speaker 1: and of course The Little Mermaid, Classic Tales, Classic Tales.

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Speaker 1: Now on and on his writing career went until he

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Speaker 1: became the Hans Christian Anderson that we know and love today.

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Speaker 1: But what about his love life? So many authors we

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Speaker 1: have talked about were absolutely drowning and sex just talked

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Speaker 1: about him. Walt Whitman like to go troll around for

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Speaker 1: young men, right about it in his diary. And these

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Speaker 1: weren't necessar early hot studs either. No, no, no, Well,

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Speaker 1: Anderson's own sexuality has been debated by scholars for decades,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to start digging into those dirty details

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Speaker 1: right after this. Bright Welcome back to the show, everybody.

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Speaker 1: So Hans Christian Anderson. Biographer Elias Bredsdorf analyzed Hans's diaries

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Speaker 1: and concluded that he lived and died a virgin, but

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Speaker 1: was also a compulsive masturbater. And he made little plus

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Speaker 1: signs in his diary every time he well, they love

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Speaker 1: these little codes. They had a sex code. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody snatches my diary, I don't want him

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Speaker 1: quite to know that's going on, although he makes it

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious, as The Guardian paraphrases, Hans would write, quote today,

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Speaker 1: I had a visit from so and so. They're so sweet.

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Speaker 1: When they left, I had a double sensuous plus plus again,

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Speaker 1: just like, what could he mean? Historian Richter Norton writes

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Speaker 1: that Alfred Kinsey, the American sexologists, read a bunch of

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Speaker 1: Anderson's original manuscripts and quote could say unequivocally that they

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Speaker 1: were straight out homosexual stories. Scholars have found that when

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Speaker 1: analyzing Hans's stories, while many of them are tales of

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Speaker 1: goodness triumphing over evils such as the Snow Queen, others

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Speaker 1: are pessimistic and sad. Britannica writes that quote, a strong

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Speaker 1: autobiographical element runs through his sadder tales. Throughout his life,

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Speaker 1: he perceived himself as an outsider, and despite the international

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Speaker 1: recognition he achieved, he never felt completely accepted. He never married,

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Speaker 1: but again not for a complete lack of trying. His

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Speaker 1: diaries do make it pretty clear that he had sexual

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Speaker 1: attraction and urges. He's always right and like and saw

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Speaker 1: this person today and could barely contain myself my blood

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Speaker 1: is boiling. I'm burst into the seams. I gotta have

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Speaker 1: that booty um. And then he would write like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I've never had any booty and I never will. BLUs

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Speaker 1: BLUs BLUs BLUs plus BLUs lush blush BLUs so. Historian

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Speaker 1: Patrick Fleming cites one of Anderson's diaries in thirty four

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Speaker 1: that says, quote, my blood is churning, huge sensuality and

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Speaker 1: struggle with myself. If it really is a sin to

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Speaker 1: satisfy this powerful urge, then let me fight it. I

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Speaker 1: am still innocent, but my blood is burning. And he

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Speaker 1: makes that reference a lot that he's still innocent, he's

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Speaker 1: still chased, he hasn't been deflowered or whatever words he

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Speaker 1: uses at the time. And there is an element of

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Speaker 1: religiousness to this, right, Like he does reference the sin

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Speaker 1: and things like that. So he was pretty religious. But

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Speaker 1: I think maybe that's more of a crutched lean on

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Speaker 1: than it is a reason that he never did have

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Speaker 1: any sex. But we'll get into that a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Fleming says that a lot of Anderson's diaries had this

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Speaker 1: sort of juxtaposition between his you know, his immense horny

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Speaker 1: nous and his obsession with suppressing it. But still these

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Speaker 1: pages are just peppered with plus signs everywhere. So he

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Speaker 1: obviously kept trying to, you know, work his issues out

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Speaker 1: on his own. He is the self serve station. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I can't go out today, need to polish the Pewter

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Speaker 1: plus plus plus. Some biographers are convinced of Anderson's homosexuality,

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Speaker 1: but others say it's more complicated than that. But certainly,

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Speaker 1: as Fleming says, quote outside the normative expectations of nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century Denmark, right, which must have been very narrow. I mean,

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Speaker 1: most places in nineteenth century were pretty narrow. Anderson's own

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Speaker 1: physician described his sexuality as acetic or practiced with severe

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Speaker 1: self discipline and abstention. But Fleming sece by Eve Sedgwick

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Speaker 1: called Jane Austen and the Masturbating Girl that proposes that

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Speaker 1: masturbation was its own form of sexuality. If not literally,

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Speaker 1: Fleming rights, then looking at it like a form of

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Speaker 1: sexuality is at least a way to reevaluate our typical

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Speaker 1: assumptions about sexuality. He says that with this in mind,

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Speaker 1: it helps us to see quote that sexual identity exists

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Speaker 1: along multiple intersecting acts. Including not just the biological sex

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Speaker 1: or gender assignment of one's self and one's partner, but

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Speaker 1: the number of partners including zero, whether sexual expression is

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Speaker 1: physical or emotional, the cultural and historical communities in which

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Speaker 1: one exists, and other factors that no list could exhaust.

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Speaker 1: So basically saying sexualities spectrum, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things that could inform that sexuality I have really

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with your internal life and a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with external life. Yeah, And we can't just,

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Speaker 1: you know, narrowly categorize every person into these broad sort

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Speaker 1: of umbrellas, right, Like, maybe there is this sort of

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Speaker 1: solo sexuality where you are, you have sexual urges and

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Speaker 1: you're willing to masturbate, but you don't want to have

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Speaker 1: sex with other people. Um. I believe that's what Cedric

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Speaker 1: is sort of talking about. Uh in her article about

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Speaker 1: Jane Austin and Flemming picks that up for Anderson and

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Speaker 1: again they say, maybe not really specifically solo sexuality as

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Speaker 1: a thing, but can we at least consider it and

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Speaker 1: open our minds a little bit? Right? Well, and you

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Speaker 1: can see it too, because like, like, for example, if

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Speaker 1: you talk about a sexuality which we've done a little bit. Um,

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Speaker 1: I know that's also got a very wide spectrum of

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Speaker 1: what like, some a sexuals are fully a romantic, are

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Speaker 1: not interested in any form of anything, right, But there's

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Speaker 1: also romantic a sexual that do want some form of

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Speaker 1: ro mance and or fine with having sex. It's just

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Speaker 1: not a big driver maybe for them. And then some

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Speaker 1: are like I like the romance part where we hold

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Speaker 1: hands and then we kiss and we cuddle, but there's

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Speaker 1: no like sex part. I don't like that part, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. Like there's a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge spectrum with a sexuality, So I could I could

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Speaker 1: see maybe like a solo like version where you're like,

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Speaker 1: I like, I feel attraction, but I don't want the

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Speaker 1: physical intimacy part. Yeah, And I can't speak for a sexuals,

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Speaker 1: but what's the difference between I'm decidedly solo sexual I

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Speaker 1: like to masturbate, but I don't like sex, and someone

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Speaker 1: who's like I have trauma curable or treatable or at

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Speaker 1: least explorable trauma that makes it very difficult for me

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Speaker 1: to have sex with other people but not to masturbate. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know what point do you say? No? No, I'm

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Speaker 1: just solo sexual and that's okay versus I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm there's there's a world out there that I'm

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Speaker 1: not exploring because you know, because it's fear trauma or whatever,

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Speaker 1: your anxiety, that kind of thing. Yeah, I wonder, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if it's really like, well, what are you happy? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: One way, like I do you feel like I've I

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Speaker 1: have a limited life because I can't get out there

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Speaker 1: and do what I want to do, Then obviously you

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Speaker 1: should address that. If you're like, I feel perfectly happy

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Speaker 1: with this and I don't want anything different than who

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Speaker 1: Who's to say that that's a wrong way to live

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Speaker 1: in your life? Right? Right? Sexuality is so uh messy

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Speaker 1: in in the best and worst ways now. Hans Krishn

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Speaker 1: Anderson's sexuality was not discussed publicly until years after his

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Speaker 1: death in eighteen seventy. Expatica dot com tells us that

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Speaker 1: a newspaper quote hinted that he may have been a

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Speaker 1: homosexual in and none other than a man we've mentioned

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Speaker 1: many times on this show and have an episode coming

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Speaker 1: up about Magnus. Hirschfeld wrote an article in nineteen o

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Speaker 1: one discussing Hans Christian Andersen's likely homosexuality, but Robert Lapage

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Speaker 1: writes in The Guardian that there's evidence that Anderson was

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Speaker 1: actually bisexual and crushed on both men and women. To

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Speaker 1: explore that we're going to actually jump forward in time

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Speaker 1: and start with a love that Anderson felt in his

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Speaker 1: late thirties with the Swedish opera singer Jenny Lynde. Jenny

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Speaker 1: Lynde was touring Denmark with the Royal Swedish Opera in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty three when she met Hans. Now she's one

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Speaker 1: of the most successful women artists in her time. Her

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Speaker 1: career was nearing its height at this point, and Hans

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Speaker 1: was supposedly so taken with her that he wrote his

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Speaker 1: fairy tale The Nightingale as a tribute. This is the

424
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: story of a Chinese emperor who caged a nightingale with

425
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: the most beautiful singing voice in the kingdom, and he

426
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: loved it so much that a salesman sent him a

427
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: golden mechanical nightingale covered in jewels that sang for him

428
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: and never got tired. So the emperor set the real

429
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: nightingale loose. She was happy to be free, but was

430
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: sad to be rejected in favor of a mechanical bird. Eventually,

431
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: the Emperor got tired of hearing the same song over

432
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: and over again, and he broke the Golden Nightingale. Then

433
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: he got very ill and wished his real bird would

434
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: come back, and the Nightingale did. She sang to him

435
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: at the window every day and made him healthy again.

436
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: She actually the Emperor asked her to come back and

437
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: live in her cage again, and she was like, no,

438
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm good. She just sang at the window and he's like,

439
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: all right, this is cool. I'll just sting for you

440
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: at the window, but I can continue to fly around

441
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: my nastural habitat. Now. This story was published and it

442
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: was a huge hit. I mean, Hans christ Needersen already

443
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: a pretty big name at this time, and this story

444
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: just took off. And this also contributed to Jenny Lynn's

445
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: rising fame across Europe because everyone knew it was basically

446
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: about her. In fact, everybody started calling her the Swedish

447
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Nightingale as an name, so really kind of just gave

448
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: her the the Anderson bump. A side note about this story,

449
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: Oscar Wilde later wrote a response to this story called

450
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: The Nightingale and the Rose and this was alluded to

451
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: by Emily Dickinson in a letter to the woman that

452
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: she loved Susan Gilbert and we're going to do them

453
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: in an episode later too. So just a lot of

454
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: ridiculous romance crossover going around the Nightingale here. I think

455
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: we even discussed Jenny lynd in our episode about Tom

456
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: Thumbs and the Barn. Jenny lyn hung out with Pt

457
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: Barnam a lot now. Hans Christian Andersen wrote frequent pouting

458
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: letters to Jenny about how infatuated he was with her.

459
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: He wrote in one diary entry quote, no books, no

460
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: men have had a more ennobling influence upon me as

461
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: a poet than Jenny Lynde. And they hung out all

462
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: the time. Whenever she was in Denmark, they would go

463
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: to lunch together. He would just kind of follow around

464
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: like a puppy dog, but in person he was shy

465
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: and awkward and he didn't really know how to talk

466
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: to her. One day in eighty four he met her

467
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: on a train platform and she was about to leave

468
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: for an opera concert, and he slipped her a letter

469
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: that asked her to marry him, and she got on

470
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: the train and was like, I'll open this on my way,

471
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: and unfortunately Hans Christian Anderson Foundation tells us that Jenny's

472
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: answer was not preserved. We don't have that letter, but

473
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: we do have one where she said, quote that God

474
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: bless and protect my brother is the sincerest wish of

475
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: his affectionate sister Jenny. He's really trying to be like,

476
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: oh boy, we are just like siblings, aren't we. Hans,

477
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: I love you, but not like that. A year later

478
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: in she returned to Copenhagen for a concert tour, and

479
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: Hans saw her daily. He admired her more than ever,

480
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: but she did not reciprocate romantically. She held a dinner

481
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: of her friends at the Royal Hotel and in a toast,

482
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: she honored the ballet master Auguste Bournonville and said he

483
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: had been like a father to her and borne and

484
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: Ville replied saying, well, now all Danes are gonna want

485
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: to be my son, so they can consider themselves your brother.

486
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: And to that, Jenny replied, quote, that is too many

487
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: brothers for me. I would rather choose one to represent

488
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: all the rest, And she picked up a second class

489
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: of champagne, walked over to Hans Christian Anderson handed it

490
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: to him and said, quote, will you be my brother?

491
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: And he's like no, no, she clinks glasses with him.

492
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: He knew it was never going to happen between them.

493
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: They call it really bittersweet. I mean, can you imagine

494
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: just just that moment where he's like, she's coming over,

495
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: just coming over, She's going to give me a champagne glass,

496
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: and she's like, will you be my brother? He's like, think,

497
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: I'll just go walk into a river. But he did

498
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: keep that champagne glass in his living room until the

499
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: day he died, and it can be seen today in

500
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: the Hans Christian Anderson House in his hometown of Odense,

501
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: so it really mattered to him. Now. Jenny Lynne, biographer,

502
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: believed that he based the Snow Queen's titular character on

503
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: her with a Heart made of ice mh. But that

504
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: was never explicitly said by Anderson himself, so we don't

505
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: know for sure. So Frozen was originally based on the

506
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: Snow Queen. That was their plan the Disney movie Frozen,

507
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: but they changed the script like thirty times and it

508
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: got way far away from it. But roughly the same

509
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: story of a girl out in the wilderness who thinks

510
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: that she can't love. She's got stone in her heart,

511
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: ice in her heart. And this one biographer says, Hans

512
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: sort of in it, like in cell way wrote this

513
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: about her as an insult, like you know, you're so cold,

514
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: such a nice queen, but you know, I think only

515
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: timing really suggests that we don't know that that's true

516
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: or not. But if so, it was not the first

517
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: time that Hans Christian Andersen wrote his heart break into

518
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: one of his children's stories. Like we said, he also

519
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: had a deep, passionate and confusing love for a few

520
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: men in his life, and one of them would make

521
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson's heart flounder and drive him to write

522
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: a story about a tiny woman who lived under the sea,

523
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid, And we're gonna hear about that story

524
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: right after this Welcome Back everyone. In one of our

525
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: favorite sources, the Marginalien Maria Popova writes about Harriet Hosmer.

526
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: She was the world's first successful female sculptor. She's an American.

527
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: She was awesome. She really shattered the mold. You could say,

528
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: I see what you did there now. After a visit

529
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: from Hans Christian Anderson, Harriet Hosmer wrote that he was

530
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: quote a tall, gaunt figure of the Lincoln type, with long,

531
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: straight black hair shading a face striking because of its

532
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: sweetness and sadness. It was perhaps by reason of the

533
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: very bitterness of his struggles that he loved to dwell

534
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: among the more kindly fairies, in whose world he found

535
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: no touch of hard humanity. I would love to hang

536
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: out with the more kindly fairies too, there weren't I

537
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 1: am so sick of hard humanity. Seriously, now, when we

538
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: look back at Anderson's life, we can kind of see

539
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: how sad he must have been all the time, and

540
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: why he might have wanted to get away from that

541
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: hard humanity and hang out with fairies. He was an

542
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: awkward boy who wanted to dance around and bring joy

543
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: and song to people who ended up teasing him. Then

544
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: he was a bright and creative student who was discouraged

545
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: from his own passions by his teachers. And then even

546
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: after his first two volumes to children's stories, those fairy

547
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: tales like Thumbelina, critics skewered him. They said it was

548
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: too simplistic, it didn't have enough morals, and children's literature

549
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: was meant to educate, not entertain. That reminds me of

550
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: our episode about Margaret wise Brown, Yes, about how they

551
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: were changing you know that you know, what was considered

552
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: appropriate for kids, and they were like, you know, you

553
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: can only give kids moral fables from tales, you know

554
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: that tell him how to be a person. And she's like,

555
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: what if it's just like a dog in a coat

556
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: And the kids were like, yeah, what about a dog

557
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: in a coat? Sitting a dog in a coat? I

558
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: kind of wanted to read this dog in a coat

559
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,239
Speaker 1: story that you're talking about. Scott was He's got it.

560
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: But also in Hans's life, he was passionate and emotionally intense,

561
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: but he had guilt over his own sexual feelings, and

562
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: he had a habit of falling in love with very

563
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: unattainable people. I should mention that Jenny Lynde he knew

564
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have a good relationship with because of her

565
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: touring schedule, so he kind of set himself up for

566
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: failure there. She was also away younger than him, she

567
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: was like fifteen or sixteen when he proposed. By the way,

568
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: as tough as his rejection from Jenny Lynde was, it

569
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: was nothing compared to the most intense love he felt

570
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: throughout his life, to a friend he'd known since school

571
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: named Edward Colin. This was the son of Anderson's early benefactor,

572
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: the theater director Jonas Colin, got to Anderson the tuition

573
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: money from the King for grammar school away back when

574
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: the guy pulled all those strings by saying, Hey, I've

575
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: got your illegitimate son here. Don't you want him to

576
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: be something one day now? Anderson lived with the Collins

577
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: for a while, and at first Edward wasn't very impressed

578
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: by this awkward kid who kind of barged into his

579
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: life and home. But his dad had them practicing Latin

580
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: and grammar together, and over time they became closer. Edward

581
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: thought it was so cool to have a friend his

582
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: age hanging around all the time, and Hans Christian Anderson

583
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: thought it was so cool to have a friend his

584
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: age that he was head over heels, completely absolutely destined

585
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: in love with. Gabrielle Bellow writes on lith Hub that

586
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: Edward never really knew quite what to say when Anderson

587
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: got emotional with him, and quote often simply expressed or

588
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: feigned ignorance of Anderson's lust. Probably the best way to

589
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: go about it. I guess, although you kind of want

590
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: to be first, because you're kind of leading him along

591
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: a little bit too. If you're just like, you know,

592
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: I'm so in love with you. I think you're so amazing,

593
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: and you're I'm just feel so passionate about you, just

594
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: to be like, okay, cool, great, yeah exactly. One time

595
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: Anderson slipped a rose under Edward's pillow while he slept,

596
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: and later wrote him a very special poem about roses.

597
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: And we found this on Danish translator John Iron's blog.

598
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: So let's go down to poetry Corner and here Hans

599
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: Christian Anderson's poem to Edward Collins. The rosebud, rosebud, ever

600
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: firm and round like a young girl's lips, so sound

601
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: when I kiss you as my bride, lovelier, Still you

602
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: open wide? One more? Kiss your lips inspired, feel my

603
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: heart's fire. I must straightway have confessed. No lips have

604
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: I ever kissed, No girl waits with heart so true rose,

605
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: My kiss must be for you, ah my yearning, ne'er

606
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: will tire feel my heart's fire. That is very passionate.

607
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: And Edward Colin got this palm and was like, yeah,

608
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: I think she'll like it. Nice, nice right in there, buddy,

609
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: Hans is like, by rosebud, I mean your butth hole.

610
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: I thought he meant lips. I know he didn't. I

611
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: wasn't misreading it. That's the gen Z version. Yeah. Edward

612
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: Collins again just not really knowing what to say when

613
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: he gets things like this. So he's just like, nice,

614
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: good words. You're you're a real writer, buddy. Now in

615
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: their twenties, Anderson continue to write Edward letters, famously saying

616
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: quote I long for you as though you were a

617
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: beautiful Calabrian girl. And you know, once again, we're guessing

618
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: Edward was just like cool, bro, glad, we're buds too.

619
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: Another time, Anderson seemed to switch the proverbial gender roles

620
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: that he had written for them in that one by saying, quote,

621
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: my sentiments for you are those of a woman, the

622
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: femininity of my nature, and our friendship must remain a mystery,

623
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: to which I'm sure Edward probably simply replied L O

624
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: L left him on red. Yeah right, or maybe he

625
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, mystery, that sounds good. Let's never let's

626
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: look he never forget Strea. Now, the letters kept coming,

627
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: Anderson sent Edward all his stories he was writing, and

628
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: he slipped little sentiments like those into his attached notes.

629
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty four, Edward couldn't really take it anymore,

630
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: and he snapped back in a letter, quote, you write

631
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: too much. You have deplorable productivity. Below says this almost

632
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: broke Hans his heart. But quote as in many unhealthy relationships,

633
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: Anderson kept at it. But she writes that this desperation

634
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: was quote perhaps at least partly born out of the

635
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: immense pressure and pain of his day to repress his queerness. Right, Like,

636
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't really know what to say. He's just obsessed

637
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: with him and it's confusing him, and it's frustrating him.

638
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: And if he's like pretty religious, you know, I'm sure

639
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: it made him feel terrible, like very healthy and wrong.

640
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: And again we go back to this unattainability where he's like,

641
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: he knows at this point, he willingly knows that his

642
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: friend has turned him down. Right, has said as much,

643
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: like if it was going to happen, it happened by now.

644
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: But he keeps He's like, well, if I focus on him,

645
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: then I know I never have to worry about crossing

646
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: that line, or I know I have to have to

647
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: find someone who might like me, and then I screw

648
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 1: it up. So lots of reasons now. When his buddy

649
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: Edward announced his plans to get married to a woman

650
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: named Henriette in Anderson was devastated, but he kept inserting

651
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: himself into their lives, even tried to start a friendship

652
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: with Henriette by sending her letters, which is awkward. Soon, though,

653
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: Bellow writes, Anderson seemed to be actively trying to stop

654
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: their marriage from happening now, in what Bellow calls one

655
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: of his less angered states, Edward once wrote Anderson a

656
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: letter in eighteen thirty six and referred to him in

657
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: it as quote a worthy friend. Well, Hans Christian Anderson

658
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: got a little pio by this little princess and the piote.

659
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: He wrote back, quote, why do you call me your

660
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: worthy friend? I don't want to be worthy. That is

661
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: the most insipid, boring word you could use. Any fool

662
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: can be called worthy. I have hotter blood than you

663
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: and half of Copenhagen Edward. I also long for you

664
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: to shake you, to see your hysterical laughter, to be

665
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: able to walk away insulted and not come back home

666
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: to you. For two whole days, talk like talking to

667
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: him as if he's his wife, right Like, I'm going

668
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: to storm away from you and give you the silent

669
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: treatment for two days. How do you like that? Right?

670
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: You're going to sleep on the couch tonight. You're really

671
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: in the doghouse, now, Edward Worthy, what an insult? Well,

672
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm more special than that. I'm not.

673
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Just like it's like saying, no, you're my good buddy.

674
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: It's not enough, right, Like it's not a special word,

675
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: Like you and I were more than just good pals,

676
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: Like you should acknowledge the very very special relationship we have.

677
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: And Edward is like, how about just special without all

678
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: the variants? Can we can we just be friends? Right? Well?

679
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: Edward and Henriette did get married, and later Edward would

680
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: write in his own memoir quote, I found myself unable

681
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: to respond to this love. And this caused the author

682
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: much suffering. He thought, you know, the human world, it's

683
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 1: a mess. Life under the city is better than anything

684
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: we got up here. So he put pen to paper

685
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: and he started writing The Little Mermaid, which historian Rick

686
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: Norton says was a direct response to his feelings for

687
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: Edward Colin. He had written to Edward in an eight

688
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: thirty five letter quote, if you look down to the

689
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: bottom of my soul, you would understand the source of

690
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: my longing and pity me. Even the open, transparent lake

691
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: has its unknown depths which no divers no. And in

692
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: the original Little Mermaid, Bellow says Andrew's and describes the

693
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: Mermaid's world in a way that really mirrors this letter

694
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: kind of drew on his own language. Uh. He calls

695
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: it a magical and mysterious place that we surface humans

696
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: can barely imagine. Again, unknown depths no divers could know. Right,

697
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 1: So let's look at the story at a Little Mermaid.

698
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: You've got a girl who has the most beautiful voice

699
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: in existence? Is this Anderson because he was at the

700
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: time one of Europe's most treasured authors. But much like

701
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: the Disney movie, in his story, when this little Mermaid

702
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: makes a deal with a sea witch so that she

703
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: can get legs and visit the prince that she once

704
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: rescued from drowning, she finally gets to be a part

705
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: of that world that she always wanted to be part of.

706
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: But she can't speak, She's lost her voice, and this

707
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: kind of feels a lot like Anderson's own challenges in

708
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: expressing his true nature. Right, He's like, I always wanted

709
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: to go talk to Jenny Lynde, but when I I

710
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: made the trade to get the ridge to go up

711
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: to her, and once I get there, I have no voice.

712
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: I can't say anything yeah or or. I can't be

713
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: honest with Edwards. I mean, I guess he was kind

714
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: of honest with Roundabout hinty way though, right, true, true,

715
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: I write you a metaphor of a poem rather than

716
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: just say, hey, buddy, I want to make out with you.

717
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: What do you think you can see why, especially if

718
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: he wasn't incursed at always? What do you want to

719
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: lose the friendship too? I don't know. Well. In his

720
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: fairy tale, mermaids live for three hundred years, but they

721
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: have no souls, and upon their death they simply dissolve

722
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: into see foam and cease to exist, but humans get

723
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: to live forever in heaven. So the little Mermaid makes

724
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: the deal, trading her voice for legs. But in the

725
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: original fairy tale, every step she takes on her legs

726
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: feels incredibly painful, like she's walking on sharp knives, and

727
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: the witch says she'll only get a soul if she

728
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: marries the prince. If not, then on the day he

729
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: marries someone else, she will die from a broken heart

730
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: and dissolve into sea foam and suffer all that pain

731
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: for nothing. And the Prince hangs out with the mermaid

732
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: all the time. He loves to dance with her, which

733
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: she does despite the excruciating agony that she feels, but

734
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: he never falls in love with her. Instead, he falls

735
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: in love with the princess, who he believes is the

736
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: woman who rescued him from drowning. Right, So you can

737
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: see how it really mirrors Anderson's sort of melancholy relationship

738
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: with love. Right, Like maybe Hans Chrishn Anderson feels that

739
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: he is sort of soulless or that his soul is corrupt,

740
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: right with these sinful feelings he has, and that maybe

741
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: if he finds true love that will redeem him or

742
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: sort of justify those feelings. Otherwise he's thinking, all I

743
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: might as well just dissolve into the sea. Obviously, we've

744
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: got the mermaid hanging out with the prince, giving him

745
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: and anything he wants, dancing with him, right and entertaining

746
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: him despite the extreme agony that she feels walking around

747
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: on these legs, and that feels a lot like how

748
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: Anderson might have felt growing up being best friends with Edward. Right,

749
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: I love hanging out with you, and it's the most

750
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: painful thing I get. Love. Definitely pain Yeah, absolutely. And

751
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: then you've got in the story, Edward, I mean the

752
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: prince right, who thinks that that stupid princess saved him

753
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: from drowning Henriette right when it was actually cons Christion Anderson,

754
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean the little mermaid who saved him. So Anderson's like, no, Edward,

755
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: I'm the one who helped you grow into the menu

756
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: are today, and yet you're going to go marry this

757
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: this girl you think is so special, who did nothing

758
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: for you. I've been here for you the whole time, Right,

759
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: you can really see the parallels here. I think it's fascinating. Yeah. Absolutely. Now,

760
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: after the Prince marries the Princess and the Little Mermaid

761
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: is about to die, Themaide sisters come to the surface,

762
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: having made a new deal with the Sea Witch. They

763
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: give the sea Witch their hair in exchange for a

764
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: dagger that if the Little Mermaid uses to kill the

765
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: prints and drip blood on her feet she'll turn back

766
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: into a mermaid. But the little mermaid just can't do it.

767
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: She throws herself from the ship and dissolves into c foam,

768
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: But instead of ceasing to exist, she ascends into the

769
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: sky as an air spirit, and because of her selflessness,

770
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 1: is given the chance to earn a soul by doing

771
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: good deeds for mankind for three hundred years, which let's

772
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: see eighteen thirty thirty seven, so we're still in it. Yeah,

773
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: she should still be working on working on some good Yes,

774
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: get down here, mermaid. I got some suggestions for it.

775
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: That soul. I think it's lame to be like, you

776
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: were so selfless, so now you get to be selfless

777
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: with three hundred years and then hey, it's that or

778
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: dissolving a c foam a ce film. You know, there's

779
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: a lot of debate about the ending of this story.

780
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Critics were kind of mixed on it at the time.

781
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: It's a it's the The ending is one of the

782
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: biggest things he changed because he based this on a

783
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: story called Undine or Undine about a mermaid kind of

784
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: a similar setup. Um, but she just died at the end.

785
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: I was just like, no, I want to give it

786
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 1: a little more of an uplifting thing. And some people

787
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: have said, well, is that him trying to find himself

788
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: a happy ending or he's just unwilling to kill this

789
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: character off. I sort of like it as this idea

790
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: of I have wonder if Hans wasn't like man. I

791
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: wish I could just stab Edward. I hate him so much.

792
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm so mad at him for what he did to me.

793
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: But you know what, instead, No, I'm going to release

794
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: myself and maybe that will redeem me and I'll and

795
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: I'll be given a better chance for a better life

796
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: after this. But you can also see if someone's religious

797
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,919
Speaker 1: that they you know, there there should be a way

798
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: to redeem yourself and I earn a place in paradise

799
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, right right, I think it's fascinating.

800
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: I haven't read the original story of you, however, I

801
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: haven't actually know. I mean, I guess we we did

802
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: a show years ago, we did the actual fairy Tales,

803
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: and that's kind of the only time that I had

804
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: ever really dove in and saw how much more crazy

805
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: especially Grims of course, yeah, um, the Grim Brothers. The

806
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: Grim Brother's whole point was, let me make you scared.

807
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: And miserable and horrified. Yeah, we're trying to freak. Yeah.

808
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: Hans went back and forth between like I really want

809
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: to make you feel good about yourself and entertain you,

810
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: and also like, isn't life miserable? I do feel sorry

811
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: for how anguished he must have been. Yeah, I mean

812
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: you said in cell and I think that's kind of accurate,

813
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: because I don't think he wanted to be necessarily celibate. Yeah,

814
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, no, because I mean he didn't, but

815
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: he must have because I think he also kept himself

816
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: are I think he found reasons to I mean again

817
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: in that sort of insult kind of way, like found

818
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: reasons to blame other people when really he could have

819
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: looked a little more inward and then like, well what

820
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: am I? What am I putting out in the world? Yeah? Yeah,

821
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: you know who am I talking to? And how? Because

822
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: that was the other thing too, is he you know

823
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: what wasn't direct and then but was smothering at the

824
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: same time. Yes, that's very frustrating for anyone. Right, Well,

825
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I meant when I was talking

826
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: about Edward, you know, deflecting and that being kind of

827
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: the best way to do it. I guess that's pretty

828
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: informed by I don't know, being being a woman, because

829
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: you can't. It's very hard to just outright be like no,

830
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: because then you're mean. And if you make a man

831
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: mad about something like that, sometimes it puts you in

832
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: serious danger and he gives a little bit of stock

833
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: or stocker. So even if you're not like this guy

834
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: does really want to stab me for real, he at

835
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 1: least will make me really uncomfortable and like be invading

836
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: my space and constantly in my ace and saying things

837
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: that make me uncomfortable and stuff like that. So, you know,

838
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: sometimes the easiest and like you said, not always effective,

839
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: but sometimes it feels like the safest, easiest route is

840
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: to be like how you you ha ha ha, so

841
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: you're the best, you know, kind of try to like

842
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: get them to realize without actually staying out loud like

843
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't want that, I'm not interested in that way,

844
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: please leave me alone, which can lead to hell hath

845
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: no fury, sort of like a writer's scoring. Like a

846
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: writer's score. Yeah, I mean it's a lot of miscommunication,

847
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: indirect communication, right that that, lad, I mean, you're right

848
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: about the threats and the worry and the concern, but

849
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: it's also just the spiral of no one's just saying

850
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: it right, so you keep kind of circling. Well, he

851
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: didn't outwardly reject me, so I'm gonna kind of keep

852
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: hinting at it. And he's like, well he hasn't so

853
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: he hasn't directly asked me, So I'm going to keep

854
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: hinting rejection, and they're just whirlpooling each other into this

855
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: this misery spiral. Do we know if homosexuality was illegal

856
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: in Denmark at that time? I do know that it

857
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: was decriminalized in nineteen thirty three, so I couldn't find

858
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: anything specific about the eighteen hundreds, but it looks like

859
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: I does suggest that it was a criminal action before

860
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: that before So yeah, well that might be part of

861
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: it where you can't be that open sure with your

862
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: questions or like trying to determine exactly what you're trying

863
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: to get out of this Rosebud poem and stuff like.

864
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: Unfortunately it was it was a question that was on

865
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: par with like are you a pedophile or you missed

866
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, like something could ruin your life and career,

867
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: and people would be like, I'm not inviting you over anymore,

868
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: you can't be around my kids like horrible ship. It's

869
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: not appropriate to put those on par but that's kind

870
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:53,919
Speaker 1: of how it was, and the self loathing from both

871
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: religious and legal right right, So maybe Edward even had

872
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: a little bit like, well, I don't want to ask

873
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: because then we can't really be friends anymore. And I

874
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: do value your friendship, and I don't want to say

875
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: something that will offend you so much that you'll be like,

876
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: I can't. You know, you got to imagine that if

877
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: he's like, are you homosexual? And Christian Anderson were like, no,

878
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: what would give you that idea? But he wouldn't be like,

879
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: come on, will you give me that idea? Let me

880
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: let me pull out these receipts. My feelings for you

881
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: are as a woman, Yeah, that you've put a rose

882
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: under my pillow while I slept, Sir, I think that

883
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: was a normal brow thing to do. Well, look, Hans

884
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: Christian Andersen's love life is clearly incredibly complicated, especially for

885
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: a man who never even once ever had sex. He

886
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: himself like seemed to be very passionate about love, but

887
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: he also didn't seem quite sure what to do with it, right.

888
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: He didn't really seem to understand his own feelings. He

889
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: might have been afraid to act on the mfs we've said,

890
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: or a shame to discover what was under the surface. So,

891
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, when he felt strongly about one and he

892
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: couldn't contain it anymore, he kind of did overflow in

893
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: the worst way possible and scare these people off, whether

894
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: he knew he was going to or not. So maybe

895
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: his pursuit of unattainable people was deliberate to protect himself from,

896
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, a less predictable rejection, right, like, well, if

897
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: I go after them, I know it's not gonna work,

898
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: but if I go to this person, it might, and

899
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: then it would hurt me more than it doesn't. But

900
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: Jenny and Edward were not the only two people that

901
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: he was obsessed with, who also kind of thought that

902
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: Hans was a little too much. He also spent an

903
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: infamous summer with Mr Christmas himself, Charles Dickens, And we're

904
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: going to talk about all of that in our next episode,

905
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 1: so definitely stay tuned for that. It's gonna be a

906
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: special Christmas story. Um, just about just about the two

907
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: of them. I love it. Yeah, I'm very excited to

908
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: tell you all that story special Christmas episode. We might

909
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: have a bonus treat in store for that episode two. Um,

910
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: so stay tuned. Yeah, please let us know what you

911
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: thought of Hans Christian Anderson his love love. I wish

912
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: we could have done a whole biography about how his

913
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: all of his stories were written and when and all

914
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: this stuff. Fascinating stuff, but of course, you know, ridiculous romance.

915
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: We got to keep it to the subject. Um, but

916
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: he certainly had some ridiculous romances, sure did. And I'm

917
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: a little sorry for him, Yeah, I am. Yeah. Well,

918
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: let us know what you think of Hans Christian Anderson's

919
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: masturbation diary or his Reeders Nightingale or his best friends. Um.

920
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: You can reach us through email It's ridic Romance at

921
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Yeah, or find us on Twitter and

922
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: Instagram on at oh great, it's Eli. I'm at Dynamite

923
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: Boom and the show is at ridic Romance and we

924
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: will catch you all in the next episode we talk

925
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: about Mr Christmas. Thank you all so much for listening.

926
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: Thank you so long. Friends, It's time to go. Thanks

927
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: so listening to our show. Tell your friend's names, Uncle's

928
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: in dance to listen to a show ridiculous role nance