WEBVTT - Forget the Magnificent Seven. This Is What's Next. 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a little bit of SpaceX's history. So

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<v Speaker 2>when they went out and said we're going to go

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<v Speaker 2>out and do reusable rockets and NASA said that was impossible,

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<v Speaker 2>they went out and did that. So there was a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of skepticism at the time. And then they built

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<v Speaker 2>a fantastic launch business and they said, Okay, we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to go out and we're going to build Starlink, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there was a lot of skepticism around whether that

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<v Speaker 2>would be successful or not. Could you get the hardware

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<v Speaker 2>and the software to work work together, and they absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>did that, and now you've got a large part of

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<v Speaker 2>the value coming through orbital data centers. But there's a

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<v Speaker 2>recognition here that this is a very strong company with

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<v Speaker 2>a huge history in hardware, n R and D, and

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<v Speaker 2>actually that is a very large tam going forward and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll continue to see that. But I think that's just

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<v Speaker 2>really SpaceX's history of having a very ambitious view on

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<v Speaker 2>what they're going to create, which no one has ever

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<v Speaker 2>done before, and what we've seen is been able to

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<v Speaker 2>do that time after time.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Marin Talk's Money the podcast image. People who

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<v Speaker 1>know the markets, Explain the markets. I'm merin sumset Webon

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<v Speaker 1>this week. I am speaking with Maggie Finari, CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>J Rothschild Capital Management, which manages the four point five

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<v Speaker 1>billion pound rit Capital Partners now Orit has long been

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most popular multi asset funds for individual

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<v Speaker 1>investors in the UK, but it's been through a longish

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<v Speaker 1>period of being slightly off the boil. Look over the

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<v Speaker 1>last five years and you see their price is actually

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<v Speaker 1>slightly down at a time when the S and P

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred has gone up around seventy percent. However, things

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<v Speaker 1>have picked up recently under our guest, the shares are

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much flat so far yere today we're around eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>percent over the last year or so, similars in line

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<v Speaker 1>with the S and P five hundred. However, that is not,

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<v Speaker 1>as we are going on to discuss strictly the correct comparison,

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<v Speaker 1>because OURT is not just a listed equity vehicle. It

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<v Speaker 1>also has private companies, credit and real assets, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is in the private portfolio in particular where there is

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<v Speaker 1>a lot going on. It currently offers exposure to some

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<v Speaker 1>of the years most talked about IPO candidate and completed

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<v Speaker 1>IPOs including SpaceX and Thropics, Stripe, Open AI and data breaks.

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<v Speaker 1>So we are very very glad to have Maggie on

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<v Speaker 1>to here about both the opportunities and the risks of

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<v Speaker 1>trustees in those IPOs and of course in the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the portfolio. Maggie, welcome to Marin Talks Money.

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<v Speaker 2>Great, thank you, Marion, delighted to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I've slightly summed up what rit do, but we

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<v Speaker 1>will have quite a lot of non UK listeners who

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<v Speaker 1>might not know the trust as well as some of

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<v Speaker 1>us do. So is there anything I missed, anything you'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to explain about, exactually what it is that you do.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been around for more than fifty years. Really started

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<v Speaker 2>as the rothschildt family office under Jacob Rothschild in the

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<v Speaker 2>early in the early seventies and we became a listed

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<v Speaker 2>and Smith vehicle in nineteen eighty eight, so more than

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five more than thirty five years ago, allowing people

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<v Speaker 2>to invest along alongside us.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's basically it's a multi asset portfolio. And as

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<v Speaker 1>I said, this is not just listed at please, this

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<v Speaker 1>is everything under the sun. And the idea is to

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<v Speaker 1>provide regular long term returns and in the main to

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<v Speaker 1>be a capital protective above all else.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right, it's a combination of the two. We

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<v Speaker 2>clearly want to preserve capital, but a large part of

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<v Speaker 2>the mandate because it is it does have equity within

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<v Speaker 2>it close to seventy percent. It's really designed to capture

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<v Speaker 2>growth while at the same time managing for a risk.

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<v Speaker 2>We would largely do that through as you noted, our

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<v Speaker 2>hedge funt program, our real assets. So as a result,

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<v Speaker 2>over the last thirty five years or so, we've generated

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<v Speaker 2>a return of ten point six percent compounded, We've been

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<v Speaker 2>able to capture seventy one percent of the market upsite

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<v Speaker 2>over that time and limited the side captured to about

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<v Speaker 2>forty one percent.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, why don't we start off talking about the exciting bit,

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the private part of the portfolio, or actually

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<v Speaker 1>the public part of the portfolio that was private until

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<v Speaker 1>a couple.

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<v Speaker 3>Of weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 1>So why don't we start with your holding in in SpaceX.

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<v Speaker 3>You've had a holding in that for a while, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, SpaceX was actually the first investment I made in

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<v Speaker 2>our private's portfolio when I joined about two years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>We could see real compounding value in the business through

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<v Speaker 2>Starlink and the fact that the business had an incredible

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<v Speaker 2>mote behind behind it, and we were delighted to see

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<v Speaker 2>them IPO just a few weeks ago quite successfully, and

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<v Speaker 2>we just think there's a lot of long term value

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<v Speaker 2>yet to come. The companies definitely also changed in the

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<v Speaker 2>last two years of so we've seen more recently they're

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<v Speaker 2>really looking to expand into the compute space, another very

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<v Speaker 2>large market for the business. So we think that this

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<v Speaker 2>is a long term compounder, and now it's also in

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<v Speaker 2>public markets as well.

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<v Speaker 1>It will feel too a lot of people in the

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<v Speaker 1>commentary around space except the risk is actually in that

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<v Speaker 1>AI bit and the compute space, and that some of

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<v Speaker 1>the businesses are very easy to understand. The space bit itself,

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<v Speaker 1>everyone kind of grasped, the satellite bit, everyone kind of grasped,

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<v Speaker 1>the Internet bit, everyone kind of grasped. But the AI bit,

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<v Speaker 1>that is where most of the valuation is focused, right,

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<v Speaker 1>That's where the expectations really come from, and that seems

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<v Speaker 1>like the riskiest bit in terms of the competition out

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<v Speaker 1>there and the lack of understanding who were going to

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<v Speaker 1>be the long term winners. But from what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like you're very happy with the valuation at

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<v Speaker 1>this level, and you're going to be a long term

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<v Speaker 1>holder regardless.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we are pleased with evaluation. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of SpaceX's history. So when they went

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<v Speaker 2>out and said we're going to go out and do

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<v Speaker 2>reusable rockets and NASA said that was impossible, they went

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<v Speaker 2>out and did that. So there was a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>skepticism at the time. And then they built a fantastic

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<v Speaker 2>launch business and they said, Okay, we're going to go

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<v Speaker 2>out and we're going to build Starlink. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of skepticism around whether that would be successful or not.

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<v Speaker 2>Could you get the hardware and the software to work together,

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<v Speaker 2>and they absolutely did that, and now you've got a

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<v Speaker 2>large part of the value coming through orbital data centers.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a recognition here that this is a very

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<v Speaker 2>strong company with a huge history in hardware and R

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<v Speaker 2>and D, and actually that is a very large tam

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<v Speaker 2>going forward and we'll continue to see that. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's just really SpaceX's history of having a very

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<v Speaker 2>ambitious view on what they're going to create, which no

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<v Speaker 2>one has ever done before. And what we've seen is

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<v Speaker 2>they've been able to do that time after time.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have also in the portfolio companies that

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<v Speaker 1>you might consider to be competitors to a degree in

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<v Speaker 1>the AI spased and for a big open AI etc.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say, when I look at that and when

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<v Speaker 2>I look at our exposure to AI, we were very

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<v Speaker 2>deliberate in the way that we wanted to get that

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<v Speaker 2>exposure for our shareholders. We decided that we wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the companies that are actually creating that use

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<v Speaker 2>for AI. So we didn't invest necessarily in semiconductors in

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<v Speaker 2>the public space. And we also, just given our access

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<v Speaker 2>and our ability to do private investments, wanted to deliver

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<v Speaker 2>something to our shareholders in investments as you just noted,

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<v Speaker 2>that can't be easily accessed as a private or public

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<v Speaker 2>markets investor. And where we wanted to invest was in

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<v Speaker 2>a very diversified way. So we wanted to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to invest in the AI frontier model, so our largest

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<v Speaker 2>exposure there is anthropic. Then we thought about the infrastructure space,

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<v Speaker 2>so we invested in data bricks, and then as we

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<v Speaker 2>thought about the application layer, we also have good exposure

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<v Speaker 2>to cut to the likes of Ramp and Stripe. So

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<v Speaker 2>when we look across I think about our AI exposures

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<v Speaker 2>being diversified across the AI stack and what we've defined

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<v Speaker 2>as category leaders. So we've been really deliberate in the

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<v Speaker 2>number of investments we've made, which is we've noted is

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<v Speaker 2>just a handful of investments over the two years. But

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<v Speaker 2>who we think are going to be the long term winners?

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<v Speaker 3>And are you.

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<v Speaker 1>Still expecting open ai to lest relatively soon because at

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<v Speaker 1>one point it was going to be this year, but

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<v Speaker 1>now it looks like it's pushed out a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean we're reading the headlines the same as anyone else.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, from our perspective, they'll go public when they're

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<v Speaker 2>when they're ready, and that's the same for anthropics or

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<v Speaker 2>data brecks from our perspective as well. Given we're long

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<v Speaker 2>term holders, we're happy if the company is compounding in

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<v Speaker 2>the private space or in the listed space. From our perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>that's still generating very strong returns for our shareholders.

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<v Speaker 1>And being in the private space in general, what percentative

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<v Speaker 1>of the portfolio is it at the moment, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>About thirty three percent of the portfolio today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this is a I mean, it's quite long

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<v Speaker 1>term having this private portfolio.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think you, like a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Of other people, believe that we've now moved into eight

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<v Speaker 1>time when the majority of the growth of exciting companies

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<v Speaker 1>is going to happen off market. So if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to have access to them, you have to be in

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<v Speaker 1>the private space, not just the public.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's right. We take the view that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of that innovation is happening in the private space,

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<v Speaker 2>and we've seen a lot of value capture, so we

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<v Speaker 2>want to be able to capture that value in the

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<v Speaker 2>private space and then be able to compound it in

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<v Speaker 2>the public space. But you see a lot of value

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<v Speaker 2>that's being created, whether it's SpaceX which stayed private for

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<v Speaker 2>close to twenty five years, or Anthropic and Open and

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<v Speaker 2>others which have seen this massive growth over the last

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years, you know, forty five billion or so

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<v Speaker 2>and run rate revenues. You want to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>capture those opportunities early, and that's what we've looked look

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<v Speaker 2>to do.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you when you look at this dynamic over

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<v Speaker 1>the last kind of fifteen years or so, what we

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<v Speaker 1>have seen this huge growth in private equity effectively and

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<v Speaker 1>in private credit, which is being the big driver of

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<v Speaker 1>the privates that you incredit quite a few of the

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<v Speaker 1>other investment trust in the UK, it started to state

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<v Speaker 1>big positions and do you see that continuing or do

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<v Speaker 1>you look at it and say, well, that was in

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<v Speaker 1>part a function of super low interest rates and the

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<v Speaker 1>capital but became available because of that, and maybe particularly

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<v Speaker 1>with these big IPOs, might market a turning point as

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<v Speaker 1>people turn back to the public markets, that being a

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<v Speaker 1>more old fashioned but high interest rate the way do

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<v Speaker 1>you raise capital and interest rates and normal.

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<v Speaker 2>So just to clarify our privates exposures primarily in that

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<v Speaker 2>more private equity space, so private equity growth venture in

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<v Speaker 2>that space, we don't own any private credit, just to

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<v Speaker 2>just to be clear, and what we think about it is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we'll think about private investments in terms of decades.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything goes through a cycle. So as a result, we

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<v Speaker 2>think the right the right allocation towards private assets and

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<v Speaker 2>our portfolios anywhere between twenty five to a third of

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<v Speaker 2>our portfolio. And we're really looking in to capture and

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<v Speaker 2>identify companies and founders that are going to create that

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<v Speaker 2>next set of generational companies. So we think as a

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<v Speaker 2>long term thesis private investing is it core part of

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<v Speaker 2>the portfolio, and that's really where a lot of that

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<v Speaker 2>growth happens.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the portfolio, again, let's stick with the private part.

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<v Speaker 1>Presumely you're still by. There are smaller names that we

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<v Speaker 1>all know, these great big names, and it's interesting and

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<v Speaker 1>exciting to see them in portfolios that we can access.

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<v Speaker 1>But what about lower down in this portfolio, what kind

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<v Speaker 1>of company do they?

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<v Speaker 2>Companies like Motive, which has also recently filed for an IPO,

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<v Speaker 2>or in companies like crack and as well. But what

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<v Speaker 2>I would say is, over time our portfolios, we look

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<v Speaker 2>through both our funds exposure and our direct exposure. What

0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.320
<v Speaker 2>you'll really see is a concentration in our portfolio. So

0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.440
<v Speaker 2>we have, you know, our top ten holdings form eighty

0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.719
<v Speaker 2>five percent of our of our directs exposure. So at

0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, that's largely in the great

0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.080
<v Speaker 2>names that we've been speaking about, companies like data bricks,

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:56.560
<v Speaker 2>companies like anthropic, companies like Epic Systems, which is a

0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 2>fabulous healthcare IT services company that was a stablished in

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.679
<v Speaker 2>the early nineteen seventies, which really has a very strong

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:09.760
<v Speaker 2>dominant share in terms of providing software for hospitals. So

0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.320
<v Speaker 2>we've got a very strong suite of companies that just

0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 2>continue to compound growth, but we tend to focus on

0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 2>later stage companies and what we view to be those

0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:20.599
<v Speaker 2>category winners.

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.200
<v Speaker 1>And in those winners, I just want to ask before

0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:23.920
<v Speaker 1>we move on from those, I mean, the big worry

0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 1>at the moment in the market is the level of

0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 1>capex and the sustainability or not of that level of investment.

0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.000
<v Speaker 3>Does that concern you?

0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>So we've been watching that very carefully like everyone else.

0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 2>What I would say is we have been consistently underweight,

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.120
<v Speaker 2>if you will, the mag seven from that perspective. But

0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 2>there is a level of CAPEX built out that is necessary.

0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.560
<v Speaker 2>And if we think about, well, what is the TAM

0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 2>or what's the potential of AI, we definitely think that's

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>a very long term structural theme and you do need

0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the compute going forward. So the way we think about AIS,

0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:05.280
<v Speaker 2>people say AI is a new form or what software

0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 2>is going to look like in the future. The software

0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.160
<v Speaker 2>market is a one trillion dollar TAM. We think that

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the evolution of AI is AI agents right in that

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.640
<v Speaker 2>second half of the story where AI agents are going

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to be able to do the work directly, while software

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 2>has actually, over the last decade decade plus has really

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.200
<v Speaker 2>looked to create efficiencies in the way that we work,

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.160
<v Speaker 2>and that next iteration with AI is the ability for

0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>AI agents to do that work directly, and that's a

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 2>sixty five or sixty trillion dollar TAM. So as a

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 2>result of that, what you see is a very significant

0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 2>market opportunity for AI, but you need to build out

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the compute to be able to do that.

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.200
<v Speaker 1>TAM being totally addressable market for the non professionals listening, Yes,

0:13:52.960 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>thank you. Right, let's look at the rest of the portfolios.

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.560
<v Speaker 1>So you know, the private super interesting, lots of exciting

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff going on in there, but still only thirty thirty

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 1>odd percent of the portfolio. And so the much larger

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 1>part is the listed equity area, where interestingly you have

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>been less overweight for US than most portfolios, you know,

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>and you're definitely of the view that the age of

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>US except journalism has come to an end and that

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>one should be more exposed as wells that you've got

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 1>quite a lot of Japan, quite a lot of Europe,

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 1>et cetera.

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, that is right. I wouldn't say it's necessarily

0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>over from that perspective, we do think, as we've noted,

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>some of the most innovative companies in the world continue

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 2>to exist in the US. But what we have seen,

0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 2>going back to the commentary around what's taken place in

0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>the last decade, is that the US was really it

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 2>as the only market where you could see a lot

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 2>of growth. And what we're seeing today, as we've seen is,

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, in our view, the world order has changed

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 2>from that into what we refer to as a more

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 2>multipolar world. So what does that mean. It means that

0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 2>governments and countries really need to focus on their own sovereignty.

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.520
<v Speaker 2>They need to focus on building out and securing their

0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 2>own supply chains, their own AI infrastructure, their own mirrortime security.

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 2>And as a result, that's creating a lot of growth

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 2>in those countries that we haven't seen before. And we

0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be there quite early from that perspective, so

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 2>we started adding to emerging markets, we started adding to Europe,

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 2>we started adding to our commodities exposure as real well,

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 2>really with a viewing that many of those markets looked

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>very cheap from a multiple perspective, really because that growth

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 2>was yet to start to be priced in and we

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 2>believe that that is coming. And we've also seen countries

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>like Germany and others indicate that there willing to spend

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 2>more fiscally, and we just think you're going to see

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.440
<v Speaker 2>more of that. Going back to the view that you

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>know from our from our perspective, the US and other

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>countries around the world have made it very clear that

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>they are going to focus on their own sovereignty.

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.560
<v Speaker 1>So just be clear, it's still got thirty five percent

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.960
<v Speaker 1>of the sexuity portfolio in the US, whereas it's more

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.160
<v Speaker 1>out altogether. And then and thinking of the least twenty

0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>five percent in Europe, twenty percent Asia, seventeen percent Japan.

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 1>So when you say emerging markets, do you really mean Asia?

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 2>So we mean emerging markets, So we do. That does

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 2>include a component of China to it, and it also

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 2>includes a component of Brazil and so on.

0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.680
<v Speaker 1>And when you when you talk about that, are you

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 1>investing in Brazil and individual companies or is that where

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:45.920
<v Speaker 1>you're buying other funds?

0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>So will typically do do that through a fund manager

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 2>is very specialized in those markets, and we believe that

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.120
<v Speaker 2>if we are able to which we are able to

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 2>access some of the best managers in the world. They

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 2>will be able to identify those alpha RS opportunities directly.

0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:03.960
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that does add to costs.

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.199
<v Speaker 2>It does add to costs, but that's why we're very selective.

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.840
<v Speaker 2>They are only incentivized if they make money for us,

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 2>so you do create that alignment from that perspective.

0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>So emerging markets will mainly be via other fund managers

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Japan also via other fund managers.

0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's right. We've been with some of our managers

0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>for almost twenty years and they've had very strong, strong

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 2>performance from that perspective.

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>And can retail investors look and see which other managers

0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:30.120
<v Speaker 1>you're using.

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's all disclosed in our annual report.

0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 1>So where is it that you are buying individual equities

0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 1>because there is a large part that is direct investing, right,

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 1>is that mainly America?

0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:42.040
<v Speaker 3>UK?

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>It would be largely, yes, the UK and the US.

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 2>So those are markets that we know very well that

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 2>we're able to leverage from our network and also that

0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.440
<v Speaker 2>specialist expertise that we have in house. And then we'll

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.960
<v Speaker 2>look to engage with with managers where we want specialized expertise.

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.159
<v Speaker 2>So take biotech, We'll use a manager or two for

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.399
<v Speaker 2>the biotech space because I don't want to go out

0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and hire thirty PhDs to help me figure out to

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 2>help me figure out biotech. But again, we are cost

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>conscious from that perspective, and they only generate or earn

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 2>their fee if they if they've been able to make money.

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so what are you owned directly? What are the

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.200
<v Speaker 3>top two or three equities. Let's look about this.

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 2>So one of the companies we've been excited about, and

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.439
<v Speaker 2>I've written in our annual report is a European listed

0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 2>company called Galderma. And this example speaks to a little

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.200
<v Speaker 2>bit about the way we utilize our network. So gal

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Derma was a private company, was owned by EQT for

0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.639
<v Speaker 2>a number of years. This was a company that we

0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 2>had the opportunity to get to know while it was

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 2>a private company. And then we were able to participate

0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 2>on the IPO because we are a permanent capital vehicle

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.320
<v Speaker 2>with a view being we are long term investors. We

0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.520
<v Speaker 2>received a very good allocation on the IPO and we've

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.840
<v Speaker 2>been able to continue to build on that position over

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 2>the last couple of years as we've gained increasingly more

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 2>conviction in and around it. And that's that's a little

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.119
<v Speaker 2>bit of the approach that we like to take with

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.399
<v Speaker 2>our public portfolio.

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 1>And when we were talking earlier about where you have

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.440
<v Speaker 1>equity exposure at US, saying that one of the things

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>that drove you to divers find more away from the

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.920
<v Speaker 1>US was valuations because some of these markets looks phenomenally cheap.

0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, that was a time when Japan looked remarkably

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.399
<v Speaker 1>cheap and Europe looked remarkably cheap than they still obviously

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 1>I had discount to the US, but much more expensive

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 1>than they were. When you look around the world, where

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.640
<v Speaker 1>is it that you see value in overall markets?

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 3>At the moment, we see.

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Value in a lot of different places, because what we've

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.320
<v Speaker 2>seen more recently is a very narrow market market rally

0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 2>this year, markets are up, but it's really been in

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.360
<v Speaker 2>one or two sectors, so call it energy, call it semiconductors,

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.680
<v Speaker 2>And there have been a lot of overlooked areas of

0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the market and more of those as you refer to

0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 2>in terms of more of those quality names, and a

0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.399
<v Speaker 2>few different areas of the market where you just haven't

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 2>seen a big rally. So from that perspective, there's been

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 2>a lot more opportunity than the double digit returns in

0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 2>some of the indices might otherwise suggest. We do expect

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.840
<v Speaker 2>a broadening of the market to come through, and we

0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 2>think that other you'll see a bit of the catch up,

0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 2>similar to what we saw last year where other markets

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.200
<v Speaker 2>like Europe had better returns than the US, as did

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 2>emerging markets.

0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what about the UK.

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.640
<v Speaker 2>We are underweight the UK today really and we've seen

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.359
<v Speaker 2>other opportunities elsewhere.

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.119
<v Speaker 1>Let's look at the other part of the portfolio that

0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 1>people I think would really be much less familiar with,

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 1>which you call uncorrelated strategies, which is the bonds. Obviously

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>government bonds, other credit and real assets. Your bondholdings are

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.080
<v Speaker 1>really remarkably low, right government bond holding.

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've traditionally had a lower weighting toward bonds. Really

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>with that part of uncorrelated strategies really focused on hedge funds,

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 2>and again that's really just the way that we look

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>at the portfolio construction. Going back to resilience, our hedge

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.960
<v Speaker 2>fund program within uncorrelated strategies is really designed to be

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>that cushion or ballast when markets are down. So what

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.760
<v Speaker 2>you would have seen last year when we had a

0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>macro macro event in terms of the wall of tariffs,

0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that came up in the United States or in Q

0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 2>one of this year where you had the US around war,

0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.120
<v Speaker 2>so you gained a very a different event, but quite

0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 2>significant on the markets from a geopolitical perspective. That part

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 2>of our portfolio produced positive returns and as a result,

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:37.560
<v Speaker 2>in Q one last year, in Q one this year,

0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 2>while markets were down, our portfolio was up. And we

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 2>just want to be able to invest in those types

0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.119
<v Speaker 2>of funds that have a very low or uncorrelated return

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 2>to market. So whether it's a macro fund or a

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.439
<v Speaker 2>quant fund or an equity neutral fund, we tend to

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 2>invest in a few of those managers really to give

0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:57.400
<v Speaker 2>us that ballast on returns.

0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 1>And how out of the portfolio is that, Because there's

0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 1>a slight problem, isn't it when you have something in

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.119
<v Speaker 1>your portfolio that's designed to be the baddest or the

0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.520
<v Speaker 1>defensive part in that you want to have enough to

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.399
<v Speaker 1>make a difference, but not so much that your overall

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 1>performance gets dragged down in a good time.

0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So that part of our portfolio is just a

0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 2>bit over ten percent, and then we combine that with

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 2>our gold our gold holdings, they are roughly in that

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 2>four to five percent range, and then we have a

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>bit of guilts and so on, so call it twenty

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:26.800
<v Speaker 2>percent overall.

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's look at the gold. But we've got a

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 1>lot of gold bugs listening to this podcast. How do

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.639
<v Speaker 1>you land on four to five percent? Is that a

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.600
<v Speaker 1>steady allocation or does it go up and down depending

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 1>on how you're feeling? And why for five percent? Why

0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:42.879
<v Speaker 1>not ten percent? Why not three percent?

0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:45.840
<v Speaker 2>So we just view it as a core part of

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.840
<v Speaker 2>our portfolio construction, So really it is a diversifier within

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the portfolio. It's also a strong diversupply that we have

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.919
<v Speaker 2>a lot of US dollar exposure as well, so it

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>serves multiple functions in the portfolio. And what we've found

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:02.399
<v Speaker 2>through our risk modeling over time is having that allocation

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.879
<v Speaker 2>in that five percent range typically is a good range

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>for us. It could go anywhere from four to seven percent,

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 2>but we try not to be too specific on what

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.479
<v Speaker 2>we think the goal price is going to be. What

0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>we're using it for as a diversifier within our portfolio,

0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 2>and that's been our target range for a long time now.

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:20.680
<v Speaker 3>And what do you think is happening in the gold

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:21.440
<v Speaker 3>pros at the moment?

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>And we had this very exciting moment when it went

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:27.560
<v Speaker 1>above five thousand dollars and we all got terribly excited,

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>and then down it came again, slipping under four thousand

0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and all over the place at the moment, and people say,

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.720
<v Speaker 1>this gold is not behaving like gold is supposed to

0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:38.440
<v Speaker 1>behave so all the things that you've just described it's

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 1>supposed to do in your portfolio, it hasn't been doing.

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.520
<v Speaker 2>So I think there is as you noted, you want

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 2>to be a bit tactical. So we did do some

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.159
<v Speaker 2>profit taking in the earlier part of the year, but

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>again that was also because it went above a specific

0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 2>threshold from a sizing perspective within within our portfolio. But

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.440
<v Speaker 2>gold is still well, you know, it's still I think

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.080
<v Speaker 2>this morning above four thousand. That is very good price

0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.640
<v Speaker 2>for gold, you know. So at the end of the day,

0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.880
<v Speaker 2>one can expect there to be some volatility, but we're

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:10.639
<v Speaker 2>not looking at it day to day. We're looking at

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:11.880
<v Speaker 2>it over the long term.

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:12.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.919
<v Speaker 1>So, but do you think there's anything particular in driving

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 1>that's volatility. I mean, you know a lot of people

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:20.280
<v Speaker 1>who we talk to to say, isn't the balance in

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 1>my portfolio that I wanted? It acts like a liquidity driven,

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 1>financialized asset, and that's not what I wanted.

0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think part of it is just central

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:32.320
<v Speaker 2>bank buying. So you had an unexpected event with the

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:36.239
<v Speaker 2>US Iran war, and you needed to buy oil and

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:39.960
<v Speaker 2>build up reserves and at higher prices, and clearly that's

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 2>become a competition to being able to buy gold as well.

0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 2>So I think you've had a pretty significant geopolitical event

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.160
<v Speaker 2>that was unexpected in and around oil prices, and that's

0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 2>necessitated a priority around around oil versus gold at the

0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:54.639
<v Speaker 2>moment by central banks.

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>What are you worried about at the moment, as people

0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 1>in the market are really worried about something, what's bothering you?

0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:05.960
<v Speaker 2>If I could narrow it down to one single risk,

0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.920
<v Speaker 2>it's really inflation. As we think about higher oil prices,

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.120
<v Speaker 2>some of the supply chain disruptions we've seen that perhaps

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 2>have gone on for a bit longer than anyone than

0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 2>anyone would have anticipated. And then you've also got higher

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.479
<v Speaker 2>spending on capex as we spoke about earlier. So the

0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:29.200
<v Speaker 2>real question on our minds is inflation, whether that inflation

0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 2>is transitory, whether the US will be able to really

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.359
<v Speaker 2>get inflation back down to two percent. What are the

0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>implications on bond yields. So we're also watching from that

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.720
<v Speaker 2>perspective oil prices to see if they start to gradually

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 2>come down, which does help with the inflation piece, But

0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 2>that would be the risk that we're looking at that

0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:48.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of defines many of the other risks and many

0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:50.840
<v Speaker 2>of the other things that people are speaking about in

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:51.560
<v Speaker 2>the market today.

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it seems like rising inflation would be

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.520
<v Speaker 1>a risk attached to what we started part of this

0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 1>conversation with, which is the renationalization of various supply chains,

0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:02.160
<v Speaker 1>et cetera.

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.000
<v Speaker 3>That's automatically inflationary, right, it.

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Is to a degree, but it also creates growth in

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>those markets, so that can also be offset by productivity gains.

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 2>So you could have AI productivity gains comes through, but

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 2>you can have industrial or more cyclical productivity gains come

0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 2>through that also helps to offset some of that some

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:27.159
<v Speaker 2>of that inflation and then lower oil prices. So there

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:29.560
<v Speaker 2>are a few pieces that go into it. So we're

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>looking at the data and just looking to ensure that

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:35.400
<v Speaker 2>our portfolio is kind of able to push through those

0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:36.840
<v Speaker 2>various macro events.

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're wondering about oil prices because while it

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 1>would make sense that they would now maybe fore graduate

0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>from here, there is a part of the equation that

0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:49.840
<v Speaker 1>we're not talking about that much, which is the rebuilding

0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:53.960
<v Speaker 1>of reserves in the US and in China. So over

0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:57.480
<v Speaker 1>this emergency period, those reserves, which are built up over

0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:01.240
<v Speaker 1>decades have been run down over months and now need

0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 1>to be built up again, which I would have thought,

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not an expert in the oil area, but

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I would have thought that that would provide a pretty

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:09.880
<v Speaker 1>firm flaw under oil prices.

0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so that's right. It's an area in and

0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>around that maybe not only the US or China, could

0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 2>be that other countries are also looking to do the same.

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:23.160
<v Speaker 2>But it could also provide a gateway, as we've seen

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:27.240
<v Speaker 2>for alternative energy sources and those sectors as we've also

0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 2>seen start to rally as people look to not only

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:33.840
<v Speaker 2>oil but other areas and sources of energy going forward,

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.480
<v Speaker 2>which could also then be deflationary from that perspective.

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, does the Trust have exposure in the energy space,

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 1>in oil or in renewables.

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:46.199
<v Speaker 2>We don't have exposure to renewables. Early on in just

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>before the Iram Wars started, we had been thinking about

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 2>energy and energy security. We did put on an oil

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.560
<v Speaker 2>position that did very well, so as a result we

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.119
<v Speaker 2>look to sell that position, but we are thinking longer

0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 2>term around energy security. Going back to our European sovereign

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 2>any theme.

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 3>Have me talked about Japan.

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 1>You've got quite a lot of the portfolio in that

0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:07.880
<v Speaker 1>and that's sixteen seventeen percent.

0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:11.879
<v Speaker 2>Sixteen or seventeen percent I think within our quoted equities

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:15.879
<v Speaker 2>portfolio and just more broadly across our entire portfolio that

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>would be in the single digits.

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:22.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's still it's fairly interesting. Well's driving that position.

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean it was as a few years ago that

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 1>would have been price ridiculously cheap market. Japan is still

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.520
<v Speaker 1>good value relative to some other markets, but you wouldn't

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 1>say it was cheat now.

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 2>If I take a step back. We've been investors in

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Japan for about twenty years as a firm really with

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>a view that was quite focused on the corporate governance theme,

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>with a view being that the government insisted that companies

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:46.040
<v Speaker 2>in Japan look to have a certain level of roe

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 2>and really look to drive those those reforms through. And

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>we believe that that trend has just continued in that market.

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:57.080
<v Speaker 2>I think what you've also seen, similar to other countries

0:28:57.160 --> 0:28:59.760
<v Speaker 2>like Korea and or the US, is in Japan the

0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.640
<v Speaker 2>market it's done very well. But what you've also seen

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>is anything that was linked to semiconductors or semi conductor

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>components has done very well in Japan, while you can

0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 2>still see value in the more traditional sectors. So again,

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:16.600
<v Speaker 2>if you look across the sectors, not and not all

0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 2>sectors in Japan, said differently, have been growing at the

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 2>same at the same rate, so we do see a

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of value there.

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.240
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Maggie, thanks for joining us perfect.

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for listening to this week's Marin Talk's Money.

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 1>If you like us, show rate to review and subscribe

0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:35.720
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0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:37.920
<v Speaker 1>comments to Marin Money at Bloomberg dot net. You can

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>also follow me and John on Twitter or x I'm

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 1>at marinas w and John is John Underscore Stepic. This

0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:46.719
<v Speaker 1>episode is hosted by Me Marin Unset Web was produced

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.360
<v Speaker 1>by Somemisadi, Moses Andam and Jennifer Sili, undersigned by Blake

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Mabel's and Aaron Casper, and special thanks of course to

0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:53.959
<v Speaker 1>Maggie Fanari