1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: One woman goes missing, then a second, third, fourth, up 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: to eleven. It was really only by happenstance that the 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: first body was found there along a stretch of beach 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Long Island now known as the Long Island serial Killer. 5 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Still no resolution, but in the last days, is there 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: a break in the case. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Today we are 8 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: releasing the first piece of new information that will be 9 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: featured on the website. A significant piece of evidence found 10 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: at one of the crime scenes along Ocean Parkway. A 11 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: black leather belt embossed with the letters HM ORWH was 12 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: recovered during the initial stages of this investigation. We believe 13 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: that the belt was handled by the suspect and did 14 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: not belong to any of the victims. We are not 15 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: providing the specific location where the belt was found, and 16 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: additional information on this item will not be available at 17 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: this time. However, we do anticipate releasing photographs of the 18 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: belt via gilgonews dot com when appropriate. You are hearing 19 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Gerald Deane Hart speaking at a Suffolk County press conference. 20 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Eleven women that we know of dead along the same 21 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: stretch of beach found buried again. In total, the remains 22 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: of eleven victims found buried on the same stretch of 23 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: Beach Long Island. Obviously the same person or a group 24 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: of people had to commit these murders. Why are they 25 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,279 Speaker 1: still unsolved? Now? The FBI joining in late breaking development. 26 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: A belt embossed with the letters h M or upside 27 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: down wh found, obviously not belonging to any of the 28 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: female victims. Why is it just being found and what, 29 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: if anything, will it mean to cracking the case of 30 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: this serial killer. Imans Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 31 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: you for being with us, with me an all star panel, 32 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: Ellen Calauria and Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, psychologists 33 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: joining us from Manhattan. Dotor Karen Stark, South Carolina medical examiner, 34 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: author of homicide Investigation, Old Guy doctor, Michelle Dupree, owner 35 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: ESP Investigations, former crime scene commander Chicago. Bruce Johnson, genetic genealogist, 36 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: the Jean Hunter, Cheryl Appoint special guest joining me now, 37 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: John Ray, lawyer of victim Shannon Gilbert, and Melissa Ken, 38 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: the sister of victim Marine Brainard Barnes. Melissa, thank you 39 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: so much for being with us, and first to you 40 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: do you remember when you learned Marine was dead. Oh yeah, 41 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: January twenty four of twenty and eleven. What happened? The 42 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: Suffic County Police detectives show up to my house and 43 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: they came and they sat us down and positively identified Marinus. 44 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: Wanted the victims. How long had she been gone? For? 45 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: Three and a half years? And I guess during those 46 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: three and a half years, you imagine all sorts of 47 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: things that she took off that she didn't want to 48 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: be found. But in the back of your mind you 49 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: had to know something horrible had happened. Oh yeah, I 50 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: knew right away when she didn't come home, because she 51 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: wasn't one that just like kind of like randomily like 52 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: left and then it come back home. But also it 53 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: kind of knew because I also saw that, you know, 54 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: she wasn't responding to anybody's calf and that was unlike 55 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: her because she's very talkative. Did she have any children? Yeah, 56 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: she had to two children. What were their ages when 57 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: Maureene went missing? One and eight? Oh? My stars, Oh 58 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: my stars? Who has the children? Now? I'm their fathers? 59 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. Joining me the sister 60 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: of one of the serial Long Island serial killers victims 61 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: Maureene Brainard Barnes with me, Melissa Can, what do you 62 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: make of the discovery of this black belt with initials 63 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: either HM or WH. I'm hopeful that it will lead 64 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: to someone to come forward to remember it. I think 65 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: it's the first like Hopelly've had in this case for 66 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: a long time. I don't want to seem like kind 67 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: of suspicious on the police on why they really decided 68 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: nine years later. I trust that the fact that they 69 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: held this evidence as if they needed it in their investigation. 70 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: But I'm no matter the years that went by, I'm 71 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: just happy that maybe this could be the break that 72 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: we need in this case with my sister of serial 73 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: killers victim, Maureine Brainard Barnes. Melissa Can to Crime online 74 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Ellen Colauren. How long have authorities 75 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: had the belt? When was it discovered? It was discovered 76 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: in the very early stages of the investigation, so they've 77 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: had it for at least nine years. Why are they 78 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: just releasing the information now? How is that going to help? 79 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone that knew someone that owned a built 80 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: like that may have moved, have forgotten or even did yes, Nancy, 81 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: Police haven't given a specific answer as to why they 82 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: waited as long as they did to release the photos 83 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: of this evidence. That was the very first question that 84 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: every reporter in the room had after Commissioner Geraldine Hart 85 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: made the disclosure. What she said is only that the 86 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: investigation is constantly involving and net authorities are continuing to 87 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: reevaluate basis they based on the evidence that they follow 88 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: and the facts of the investigation. Also, it's been nine 89 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: years and during that time there have been a number 90 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: of leadership changes within the highest ranks of Suffolkani law enforcement. 91 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: Geraldine Hart has only been Commissioner since twenty eighteen. Well, 92 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear there's been a reshuffling of people 93 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: in power. But i mean, Johnson, Why in the world 94 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: you're a former commander of Crime Scene Chicago owner now 95 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: of ESP Investigations Bride Johnson, You're trying to solve a 96 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: serial killer, string of murders, eleven women that we know of, 97 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: innocent women dead and shallow graves along the same stretch 98 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: of beach. Why in the world would they have not 99 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: put that on TV, in newspapers, on the internet when 100 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: it first happened. I'm not blaming them. They're not the murderers, 101 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: but anyone that may have recognized it is long gone 102 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: by now. Exactly. I don't want to blame them either, 103 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: because usually when you're doing these type of cases, you're 104 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: going to have command briefings, you're gonna have all types 105 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: of different things. But over a nine year period, the 106 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: thing that I would question is the press conference for 107 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: the belt, right, you want to draw attention and your 108 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: everybody's talking about it and it may lead to something. 109 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: So my question to them would be, why are you 110 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: not released all the information on the belt? Which victim 111 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: was it you know related to? They don't show the 112 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: whole size of the belt, They don't you know, they 113 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: zoom in on a closeup of the initials, So you 114 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: need to have an establishing shot of the belt, which 115 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 1: I'm sure they do. Is it a thirty four thirty 116 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: eight two belt? What's to make if the was it 117 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: made in China? Does it stamp made in the USA? 118 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, if you're going to have a 119 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,359 Speaker 1: press conference and announced the belt, why are they withholding 120 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: the information? We're not going to tell you which victim belt, 121 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: what victim that belt was found could be very important. 122 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, hold on, you're bringing up an incredibly 123 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: good point to John Ray, attorney for the family of 124 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: another victim, Shannon Gilbert. So I was happy when ellen 125 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: Claurin told me that they had released information about the 126 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: black belt with these initials. Then I was in despair 127 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: when I found out they've known about it for years now. 128 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: They're not John Ray, You're a very well known lawyer. 129 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: Is this true. They're not telling any more information as 130 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: to for instance, by which body the belt was found, 131 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: nothing more. Yes, they have told nothing more, and they 132 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: have deliberately said they would not tell anything more than 133 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: what the commissioner said. And the photos up close of 134 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: the initials. They took the photo opside down and right 135 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: side up as it were, and published that time stories 136 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. The Suffolk Police Commissioner said the killer 137 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: left a black belt at one of the multiple scenes 138 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: where bodies were dumped with the initials HM or wh 139 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: on it. We believe that the belt was handled by 140 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: the suspect. A law enforcement source who worked on the 141 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: Gilgo Beach case told me that the initials embossed on 142 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: inside of the black belt are about a half inch high, 143 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: and he said, the handy work looks like something you 144 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: might have found done at a shopping mall in the 145 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: eighties or nineties. The initials on the belt have caused 146 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: a frenzy of speculation, with some web sleuthes tying the 147 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: initials to a friend of disgrace, Chief James Burke. Burke 148 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: went to prison in twenty sixteen for beating up a 149 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: drug addicted suspect who stole a stash of porn and 150 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: sex toys from the chief's official police car. Burke was 151 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: released last year. Okay, now we're getting politics dragged into this, 152 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: I guess John Ray, attorney for the family of serial 153 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: killer victims Shannon Gilbert, you probably don't give a flying 154 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: fig about some police chief in the past allegedly having 155 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: a stash of porn in his car. Do I like it? Now? 156 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: I don't like it. Could it have come from a case? 157 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from, and I don't care. 158 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: All I care about is the possibility of finding the 159 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: person connected to this belt. John Ray, how is Shannon 160 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: Gilbert's family taking the announcement that a belt has been 161 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: there and the cops sat on the information all these years? Well, 162 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: the family is upset, of course, and wondering why this 163 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: was withheld from the public, along with the nine one 164 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: one tape or tapes, actually four of them involving Shannon. 165 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: On the evening she and morning she disappeared, including Shannon's 166 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: voice for twenty three minutes. I believe well, tell me, 167 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: tell me, tell me, John right, tell me about a 168 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: nine one one call from Shannon Gilbert, one of the victims. 169 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: Shannon made a call while she was in the house 170 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: of the John. In that call, she said there was 171 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: a struggle, and she said they're trying to kill me, 172 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: words to that effect, and then ran out of the 173 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: house of the John. His name was Brewer and began 174 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: knocking on doors. Two people called nine one one on 175 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: whose doors she knocked, and then the next they Brewer 176 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: also called nine one. So there are four tapes. I've 177 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: tried to get those tapes. I've sued the police department 178 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: to get those tapes. It's taken years of litigation. They've 179 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: resisted us relentlessly in court. We got a court order 180 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: saying give up the tapes to John Ray. They refused 181 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: to do it. Instead, they appealed it. We're waiting now 182 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: for the decision on the appeal which was submitted finally 183 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: just last Tuesday. Good gravy. What these victims families have 184 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: been through just to get information. Take a list of 185 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: our friend at Picks eleven. This is James Ford. Their 186 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: search for bodies began after one of the people whose 187 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: remains were found, sex workers, Shannon Gilbert, made a nine 188 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: one one call after running out of a nearby home 189 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: eight years ago. She disappeared, and that call led police 190 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: to search for her. They found four other corpses instead 191 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: before finding her remains, as well as those of five 192 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: more mostly women sex workers, but Suffolk County Police never 193 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: released her nine one one call. Now a judge has 194 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: ordered them to do so. I think the judge was 195 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: convinced of the rightness of our cause. Attorney John Ray 196 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: sued for the tapes and one on behalf of Shannon 197 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: Gilbert's family. They're convinced that doctor Peter Hackett, possibly the 198 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: last person to have seen Gilbert alive and who had 199 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: a physical reaction when he was confronted about it, is 200 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: believed by Gilbert's family to be involved in her disappearance 201 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: and death. They also suspect that former Suffolk County Police 202 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: Chief James Burke, who's in prison now on an unrelated charge, 203 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: may have also been involved. What in the hey Ellen 204 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: Kalora and Crime online dot com investigative reporter as one 205 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: thing for the police chief to have porn stash in 206 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: his car as another thing to suggest he was involved. 207 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: What did they What did that reporter just mean that 208 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: the police chief may be involved in what capacity? Ellen, Well, 209 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: there is a lot of speculation amongst citizens in Long 210 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: Island and people that know this case very well, that 211 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: he intentionally wanted the FBI away from this investigation, and 212 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: that is one of the reasons that people have speculated. 213 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: Of course, there's no evidence to this, but there has 214 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: been speculation that he had something to hide. He had 215 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: previously been with a sex worker while he was a 216 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: member of the force. The sex worker had access to 217 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: his patrol car and his gun. So it's this ongoing 218 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: issue of whether or not I got it. So, Ellen, 219 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: you're telling me nobody thinks that the place chief was 220 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: involved in the murders. That he was involved in maybe 221 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: misconduct and how he handled the case. Take a listen 222 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: to our friend Aaron Moriarty forty eight hours when the 223 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: police are looking for Shannon with authorities searching this scene, 224 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: a police made a grizzly discovery. They turned up four 225 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: other bodies wrapped in borrow lap, four female victims. They 226 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: had found so many bodies there we could have a 227 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: serial killer. Discovery of a fifth set of human remains, 228 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: one body after the other. A disturbing new discovery was made, 229 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: bringing the total to eight. Long Island is a popular 230 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: place to dump people. This is the American version of 231 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper. We got another body and then another one. 232 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: When the police find them, they were in some way mutilated. 233 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: The ninth and possibly tenth victim. They're all sex workers. 234 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: This is like a horror movie, Like you don't everythink 235 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: that's going to happen to you. This is this is 236 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: an evil place. You know. I watched all these movies 237 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: with serial killers and they're like that kind have happened, 238 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: but it really does happen, and the murderer has not 239 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: been found. The murderer has not been found. Now eleven 240 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: women dad we believe at the hands of the serial killer, 241 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: all buried along the same stretch of beach. To doctor 242 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: Michel du Pre, South Carolina Medical Examiner, author of homicide 243 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Dupree. Is there any way that 244 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: DNA can be found on these bodies or maybe on 245 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: this belt? Nancy, there actually is, especially on the belt. 246 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: The belt can keep the DNA a lot longer, perhaps, 247 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: and some of the bodies if the evidence has gone 248 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: from there. Actual DNA found on the body after a 249 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: long period of time is probably less likely, but certainly 250 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: there may be someone still left on the belt. Well 251 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: what about if the women were raped, which I believe 252 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: that they were, wouldn't DNA still be inside their body cavities? Well, 253 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: it could be, but DNA is only viable for about 254 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: seventy two hours after the fact that we could get 255 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: a DNA from seminars farm. Then how is it that 256 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: told cases are cracks years later with DNA, Doctor Dupre. 257 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: That can be on other substances that can be on 258 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: clothing such as the belt or in other areas. DNA 259 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: can also be used several years later to identify someone 260 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: if it is mitochondrial DNA or something of that nature. 261 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: It really just depends on those circumstances. Joining me right now, 262 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, the gene hunter ge ne gene hunter Cheryl 263 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: A point sure. Thank you for being with US explained 264 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: to me how this belt could identify the Long Island 265 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: serial killer, Nancy. With the advancement in DNA processing over 266 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: the last few years, it's very possible now that even 267 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: though they had the belt, say nine years ago, they 268 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: didn't have the capacity to extract the DNA and put 269 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: it in what we call snip files, which is what 270 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: is used to do investigative genetic genealogy. This new process 271 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: allows us to put this information in databases that we 272 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: use to find shared ancestors, just like we do when 273 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: we search for adoptees, we find shared ancestors, we reverse 274 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: engineer a tree, and we hopefully find leads that can 275 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: help investigators solve these crimes. Take a listen as I'm 276 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: speaking with Robert Coke, or author of The Boat Lost Girls. 277 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: And they only started to take shannon disappearance seriously by 278 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: around August. Really it was May when she disappeared in 279 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: August when the police start looking for her. But then 280 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: the most amazing thing happened. Nancy, a cop and a 281 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: cadavered sniffing dog go looking for Shannon. Months and months 282 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: after Shannon disappeared. The cop and the cadaver dogs find 283 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: a set of bones along Ocean Parkway, just three miles 284 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: away from where Shannon disappeared. It's a woman. She's petite 285 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: like Shannon, but it isn't Shannon. And within two days 286 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: they find three more bodies, just about a tenth of 287 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: a mile apart from each other, evenly space, clearly planned out, 288 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: clearly the work of a premeditated killer. None of these 289 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: women are Shannon Gilbert. From there, the entire New York 290 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: media world explodes. The national media world explodes. There's a 291 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: serial killer in New York City. Some of these women 292 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: have been disappeared for three or four years. Nobody knows 293 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: who he is. The police don't have leagues. It's like 294 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: they've imperative for cold cases. Five of you include Shannon 295 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. We're looking at most likely 296 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: one serial killer, because it would be a little odd 297 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: that another serial killer also found this great dumping ground. 298 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: And what does happen with serial killers who dispose of 299 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: bodies and places that they think won't be found. If 300 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: they find a good place, nobody has discovered that body, 301 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: why look for another place where you could get caught 302 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: or the body could be discovered. Why not just keep 303 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: using that same stretch of road, and that's clearly in 304 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: my mind what he did and was very successful at it. 305 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: If it hadn't been for the peculiar moment of Shannon 306 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: Gilbert going missing, a I think it's just a bizarre coincident. 307 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: That's Colonel Profile or Pat Brown is joining us explaining 308 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: why she believes it is a single serial killer. To 309 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: Ellen Kalora and Crimalline dot Com investigative reporter, Obviously, these 310 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: women had been sexually assaulted, murdered and buried. Was DNA 311 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: recovered from any of the bodies, and what was the 312 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: mode of death? Was it the same on all eleven victims. 313 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: Nancy authorities have not revealed anything about the DNA of 314 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: specifically about the DNA evidence that was taken from any 315 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: of the victims or any of the crime scenes. And 316 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: also as far as the mode of death, we know 317 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: that the guil go for died of asphyxiation, but that 318 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that they were strangled, as has been 319 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: widely reported. There's other ways that you can die in 320 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 1: that manner. As far as the other victims, some of 321 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: these victims have not been identified. Only five of the 322 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: ten that they have found have been identified, so that is, 323 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: but they do have DNA evidence from some or all 324 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: of the unidentified victims, because they recently made an announcement 325 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: that they've given DNA evians from identified victims to the 326 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: FBI for further announce Okay, well, I don't understand. At 327 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: the beginning, you said they weren't releasing whether or not 328 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: there is DNA, But now I'm understanding there is DNA. 329 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: They just announced a week and a half ago that 330 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: they have sent DNA from the five unidentified victims to 331 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: the FBI for analysis. I wonder if that's DNA as 332 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: to determining who the victims are, or if it's DNA 333 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: they got from the bodies to determine who the killer is. 334 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: To Melissa Ken, the sister of one of the serial 335 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 1: killers victims, Marine BRAINERD Barnes, Melissa, what if anything, how 336 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: detectives told you about potential DNA Nothing. Damn't told us 337 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: anything about potential DNA. I do know, just because not 338 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: that I'm privileged to this information, but I know what 339 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: they're doing with the DNA is actually extracting the DNA 340 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: from the unidentified bodies and putting them in a database 341 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: to try to find relatives to try to identify those bodies. 342 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of a daylight in a dollar or I mean, 343 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: this is years and years later that they're just now 344 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: trying to identify the victims' bodies. But John Ray, attorney 345 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: for the family of victims Shannon Gilbert, that could be 346 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: because we are just now getting to use familial DNA, 347 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: So if they're looking to identify family members, maybe that 348 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: has been the delay. John Ray, what do you know 349 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: about it? No, I don't know of that being the 350 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: reason for the delay. The police have been investigating this 351 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: case apparently actively for the nine years. It's the question 352 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: is rather whether their investigation has been sufficient, and that 353 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be so. Now. There can be a 354 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: number of reasons for that, but one of the reasons 355 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: that has just emerged is that Chief of Police Burke, 356 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: who's convicted now and has served prison time and is 357 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: out for his corruption, he was in charge of the 358 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: investigation only days after Shannon was found. He was made 359 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: chief of police. Before that, he was the chief one 360 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: of the chief investigators for the District Attorney's office, so 361 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: we had a lot of control over the situation, and 362 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: he deliberately suppressed any involvement of the FBI, not only 363 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: in this case, but in all cases involving Suffolk County. 364 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: So we have that factor. But we also know that 365 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: we know I've known, and I've reported it to the 366 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: police a long time ago and again recently, that Chief 367 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: Burke ran lived with a woman who ran a prostitution 368 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: ring from Burke's home on a deeper registered to a 369 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: Jane Burke at his address. There is no Jane Burke 370 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: at his address. And this prostitution ring, which I independently corroborated, 371 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: was ongoing for about ten years. Good gravy. So if 372 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: you have a man who's completely addicted to prostitution, and 373 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: he had he had another prostitute who I represented named 374 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: Larina Rickenbacker and Lurita. You know she was with Burke 375 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: during his years. She had a baby with Burke. And 376 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: during all this time none of the police seemed to 377 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: notice this. And yet he during this prostitution era. Shall 378 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: we say, we have this man in charge of investigating 379 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: dead prostitutes. Take a listen to our friends at CBS 380 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: and US is a set down. Now, let's believed the 381 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: killer may work in or be familiar with law enforcement, 382 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: and how an investigation would unfold. Detectives are focusing on 383 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: a series of seven disturbing calls from one of the 384 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: victim's own phone. Police believed that the killer may have 385 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: made several phone calls to the sister of one of 386 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: the victims from busy places around New York City like 387 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: here at Penn Station. The calls were kept short, so 388 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: if they could be traced, the killer still could not 389 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: be identified by surveillance cameras. During one call, an unidentified 390 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: man asks, do you know what your sister's doing? She's 391 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: a whore if you look for the common denominator and 392 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: the common denominator right now is Craigslist to Ellen Kalaura 393 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: and Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. So the killer 394 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: knows the victims to the extent that he calls their family. Yes, Nancy. 395 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: This is one of the most chilling and frustrating parts 396 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: of this case. That call was made shortly after Melissa 397 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: Bartholomy wet missing from her own phone, and it was 398 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: made to her younger sister, who was only a teenager 399 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: at the time. This person called her about seven times, 400 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: at least seven times, but police were never able to 401 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: trace the call because he was making the calls from 402 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: busy areas in Mentown, Manhattan, and he didn't stay on 403 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: the phone long enough to Bruce Johnson, owner ESP Investigations, 404 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: former crime scene commander Chicago Metro Area, Bruce Johnson, it's 405 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: believed that all of these women, all eleven, were killed 406 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: elsewhere then dumped buried there along this stretch of Long 407 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: Island Beach. How could cops know that? Oh? Well, on 408 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: some of the cases there was actually body parts found 409 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: at different locations. They had ahead at one location and 410 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: a torso at another. But there's no reason why this 411 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: case could you know, could not be taken over from 412 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: the FBI, even if the chief was trying to prevent it. 413 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: With eleven bodies, the FBI could take it over against 414 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: their willth FBI comes in and takes cases away from 415 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: local departments all the time, so there's no reason why 416 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: that couldn't happen. And the other information, as far as 417 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: evidence is concerned, three of the bodies that were found 418 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: when they were looking for the one, we're all in 419 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: burlap sacks, which is noted and reported. It's important to 420 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: get that out. What's the make you make and description 421 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: of those burlap sacks? Can you find a manufacturer where 422 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: they were produced, can you get a link to a 423 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: subspect that worked at that factory. So a lot of 424 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: questions as to why certain things are being released and 425 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: certain things aren't, but the FBI needs to take it over. Today, 426 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: we are launching a website dedicated to sharing information with 427 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: the public about these unsolved murders and also providing a 428 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: new way for the public to provide us with tips. 429 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: To that end, we are asking the public to carefully 430 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: consider the information provided on the website and whether they 431 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: may have any information that could bring this case forward. 432 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: As appropriate, we will share additional information via the website 433 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: with the hope that with its release, the public will 434 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: generate new tips and new investigative leads. The website will 435 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: be dynamic, with evolving content posted over time from the onset. 436 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: There will be a section to enable the submission of 437 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: tips anonymously. Should the tips to choose so crime stories 438 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we have leveraged the expertise of our 439 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: federal partners and are utilizing new scientific advances to expand 440 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: our investigative capabilities. We were granted approval by the New 441 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: York State Department of Health and have provided the FBI 442 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: with DNA samples from our unidentified victims for the purpose 443 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: of conducting genetic genealogy. The process includes uploading DNA to 444 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: public genealogy databases in an effort to identify possible relatives 445 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: of our unidentified victims. It is not clear how long 446 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: this process will take. Information about the possibility of other 447 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: DNA collected during the investigation will not be discussed. Even 448 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: with these advances in technology, we know that the public 449 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: remains one of our greatest resources. I encourage anyone who 450 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: may have information to submit a tip, even if you 451 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: wish to remain anonymous. The new website can be accessed 452 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: at gilgonews dot com. You are hearing Gerald Dean Hart 453 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: speaking at a Suffolk County press conference. Eleven women dead 454 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: along the same stretch of beach found buried late breaking development. 455 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: A belt embossed with the letters h M or upside 456 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: down wh found obviously not belonging to any of the 457 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: female victims. What, if anything, will it mean to cracking 458 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: the case of this serial killer? I Nancy Grays, this 459 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with 460 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to Cheryl A point genetic genealogist, 461 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: the gene hunter cheryla point. We're also learning that many 462 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: cops believe the belt was used to bind the victims, 463 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: not just a belt that the perpetrator wore on a slacks. 464 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: How does that increase the likelihood that we may find 465 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: DNA Nancy The DNA on the belt in that case 466 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: would probably have the perpetrator as well as the victims 467 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: DNA if the belt was indeed used to bind the victim, 468 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: and with the advancements in DNA processing now it's very 469 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: possible to separate the two profiles and that information can 470 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: be used to put into the coded system see if 471 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: someone who is already a perpetrator may be connected to 472 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: the case. If not, it's moved onto familial DNA testing 473 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: where they look for a possible family member. And now 474 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: to my understanding that they're going to be using investigative 475 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: genetic genealogy, where it's put into the databases that is 476 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: used to look for ancestors and they build family trees 477 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: to find a lead. Now that belt again, you know, 478 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: it's it's very possible that it wasn't brought up in 479 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: the past because they didn't have the investigative genetic genealogy, 480 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: and if the DNA was put into the CODA system 481 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: and there was no hit, then it was of no 482 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: use to them. But I think it's very possible now 483 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: that it definitely can lead to finding someone that could 484 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 1: be a suspect. Now when we are talking about familial DNA, 485 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: that all came about and is now allowed in that 486 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: jurisdiction because of the slain New York jogger Carina the Tronto. 487 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: Her father, a retired firefighter, led the charge to allow 488 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: familial DNA. In other words, let's just say Jackie Howard 489 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: robs a bank and shoot somebody, We find the gun, 490 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: we have DNA on it. There are no eyewitnesses. It's 491 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: Jackie's DNA. She's not in the data bank. She hadn't 492 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: committed a crime before. But with familial DNA, her DNA 493 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: can be put into a larger DNA bank and maybe 494 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: find relatives of Jackie Howard's blood relatives based on DNA, 495 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: and then you start there and you investigate until you 496 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: identify who lives in the area of the bank robbery, 497 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: who owned a gun by that last name. It just 498 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: goes on from there. That's what we're talking about. Familial DNA. 499 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that the police sat on the 500 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: belt for nine years. Ellen Klaura and Crime online dot 501 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. Where was the belt? Fan? Was it buried? 502 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: Was it on the side of the road. Do we know, Nancy? 503 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: We know so little. The police won't disclose at which 504 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: crime scene the belt was found. And one thing that 505 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: I would really like to know is how they were 506 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: able to rule out that the belt belonged to any 507 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: of the victims. All that they have said is that 508 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: the belt was handled by the suspect and they do 509 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: not believe the belt belong to any of the victims, 510 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: and I'm very curious to know how they made that 511 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: determination and what that means. John Ray, lawyer for family 512 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: of victims Shannon Gilbert, do you have any answers on that? 513 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: The only answer I have is what I said before, 514 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: which is that the initials matched woman that Burke, Chief 515 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: Burke was with who was running a prostitution ring from 516 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: his home. Then they match her first and last name. 517 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: We've we've informed the police of that, We've asked them 518 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: to look at that. That's it. There's there's no more. 519 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: The very fact that they are deliberately refusing to reveal 520 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: anything else can suggest that this was nothing but a 521 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: public relations stunt because the police were facing our court 522 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: decision regarding the nine one one tapes about to be made, 523 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: and that the Netflix movie was about to come out, 524 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: or it could and by the way, those things would 525 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: result in the criticism of the police. Or it could 526 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: be that the police have a purpose and one of 527 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: them is to flush out the suspect or suspects. I 528 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: don't think it's necessarily just one and uh, you know 529 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: by by releasing that information signaling to the suspects, we 530 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: know who you are, words to that effect. So it 531 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: could be that, and I'd always like to give the 532 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: police the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't mean it 533 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: will work. We wait as justice unfalls. To the family 534 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: of Shannon Gilbert, and to Melissa can sister of Maureen 535 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: Brighter Barnes, and to all the other families. Our thoughts 536 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: and prayers with you. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 537 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.