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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm the Owaisha. You may know me as the

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Speaker 1: former host of Visibilia. Well, I'm back with the new

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Speaker 1: show called Praxy. It's about the niche emotional questions that

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Speaker 1: no one in your life can relate to. That's where

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Speaker 1: Praxy comes in. I'll connect you to researchers and strangers

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Speaker 1: with shared experience and you'll get to ask all your questions.

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Speaker 1: We're kicking things off with a three part series on

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Speaker 1: the emotional and mental health toll of layoffs. Subscribe to

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Speaker 1: Praxy wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Because.

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Speaker 3: This is episode six of Because the Bus Belongs to Us,

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Speaker 3: a podcast where two queer nets get down to business,

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Speaker 3: assembling their final bits of evidence in the hope of

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Speaker 3: convincing other queer people that Bruce Springsteen is a queer icon.

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Speaker 3: I'm Jesse and I'm Polly, and the show is almost over.

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Speaker 2: No next episode will be our last. We'll be presenting

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Speaker 2: our findings to a panel of queer people. You get

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Speaker 2: to decide if we have enough evidence to admit Bruce

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Speaker 2: Springstea to the Queer Icon Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 3: At the very start of this mission, we came up

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Speaker 3: with four checklist points.

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Speaker 2: We of course smashed check this.

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Speaker 4: Point one is Bruce Camp Yes, he is.

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Speaker 2: Our second check this point. Underdog status started.

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Speaker 4: Well with that escaping, that needing to get out.

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Speaker 5: You got to go, and you'll do anything to make

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Speaker 5: sure you don't have to go back.

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Speaker 4: That to me is the essence of an underdog.

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Speaker 3: Then it ended in a full panic about the entire

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Speaker 3: purpose of the show.

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Speaker 2: Sure, a lot of Bruce Brinky's lyrics make us feel seen,

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Speaker 2: but can we actually relate to him? Do we even

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Speaker 2: want to make a whole podcast series idolizing a rich, white,

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Speaker 2: straight cis man whose politics we aren't actually sure of.

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Speaker 2: But we pulled it back with checkliss point three good music.

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Speaker 3: Bruce is so much more than Bruce, and I love

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Speaker 3: thunder Road, not just because Bruce said it, because we

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Speaker 3: all get to say it to each other. Now we

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Speaker 3: just have one checklist point to go before we can

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Speaker 3: officially crown Bruce Springsteen with queer icon status. Quite simply,

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Speaker 3: is there a vibe? Do other queer people agree that

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Speaker 3: Bruce is a queer icon?

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Speaker 2: And we are getting nervous. Next week we'll be presenting

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Speaker 2: our evidence to an expert panel of queers, and the

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Speaker 2: fate of this very serious scientific investigation rests in their hands.

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Speaker 2: Today is our last chance to collate our evidence, gather

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Speaker 2: our findings, and prepare our ultimate argument.

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Speaker 6: So we're looking.

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Speaker 4: Just like last bits and bobs are here. So in

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Speaker 4: classica style, we're back to basics. Sitting in my.

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Speaker 3: Bedroom, surrounded by Zeen's books and photos of Bruce. We're

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Speaker 3: having one last nerdy evidence gathering session looking through our

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Speaker 3: Bruce Springsteen ephemera.

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Speaker 2: In episode four, we put a name to a discomfort

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Speaker 2: that we've been feeling throughout the series. There's a difference

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Speaker 2: between the radical queer email Bruce Springsteen we've created in

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Speaker 2: our heads and projected our own meanings onto, and the

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Speaker 2: very real life Bruce Springsteen walking around in New Jersey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I'm just going to quote you to

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Speaker 3: you reading my favorite line from your graphic memoir Looking

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Speaker 3: for Bruce. So you're saying here, part of being a

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Speaker 3: Bruce fan is getting to choose which myth or version

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Speaker 3: of the truth I believe in. It's a bit like wrestling.

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Speaker 3: It's both fake and very real, but it's only fun if.

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Speaker 4: You really believe.

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Speaker 3: I guess that's what we're going to put to the

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Speaker 3: test next week if we can get other people to

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Speaker 3: see the fun in believing too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something we touched on in episode two as well,

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Speaker 2: when we talked about Bruce's esthetics. So there's this image

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Speaker 2: of him in this book here. This is called Springsteen

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Speaker 2: Album by Album by Ryan White. It was taken for

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Speaker 2: Rolling Stone at nineteen eighty four by Aaron Rappaport. He's

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Speaker 2: got the denim, he's got double bandana, and I could

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Speaker 2: obviously read this image in a very queer way if

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Speaker 2: I wanted to, But I'm sure loads of people saw

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Speaker 2: this and thought he's just the ultimate American man.

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Speaker 7: He was a version of white male, patriotic, heterosexual American

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Speaker 7: that I disidentified with.

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Speaker 2: This is a Lana Coombier.

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Speaker 8: I was born between Born to Run and Darkness on

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Speaker 8: the Edge of Town.

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Speaker 2: For much of Alana's life, they were not a fan

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Speaker 2: of Bruce Springsteen.

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Speaker 8: And then what happened was that I listened to Nebraska.

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Speaker 3: Oh Nebraska, the Bruce Springsteen album that Dykes have claimed

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Speaker 3: as their.

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Speaker 2: Own, released in nineteen eighty two, The Legend Girls that

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Speaker 2: Bruce recorded the songs on a little four track in

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Speaker 2: his bedroom, just him and his guitar and his harmonica.

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Speaker 2: He originally intended to re record full versions with the

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Speaker 2: whole band, but then he decided to release them as

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Speaker 2: is because it just felt right.

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Speaker 3: Lots of the songs on the album are pretty dark,

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Speaker 3: songs about unemployment, death, debt, isolation, and a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of hopelessness.

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Speaker 8: I heard these songs about people who are having a

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Speaker 8: much more ambivalent relationship to being American, to living where

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Speaker 8: they are, to having this other level of sort of

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Speaker 8: like procurity around class and while being who are in

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Speaker 8: their white way, still subject to and worried about policing,

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Speaker 8: who are trying to make these decisions about what does

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Speaker 8: it mean to try to live in this place, make

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Speaker 8: a life. People who are seeking a kind of freedom

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Speaker 8: that's different than the freedom that I thought Bruce was

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Speaker 8: angling toward.

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Speaker 2: I always really trust people who say they got into

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Speaker 2: Bruce through Nebraska. I think most queers that I know

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Speaker 2: in Nebraska, for some reason, is like the album as

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Speaker 2: opposed to like the more poppy stuff, even though we

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Speaker 2: all have pop as well. I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: Nebraska seems to be this thing that grabs hold of people.

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Speaker 8: It just feels so intimate to me. I was remembering

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Speaker 8: that on my dating profile I had something about being

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Speaker 8: a fan of Nebraska era Bruce Springsteen, which now I

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Speaker 8: would just change and say I'm a fan of Bruce Springsteen,

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Speaker 8: but at the time I felt it was necessary to

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Speaker 8: make that little qualification.

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Speaker 2: That sends a very specific message.

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Speaker 3: At the time, Alana was getting into Nebraska era Bruce Springsteen,

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Speaker 3: they were in their late twenties. They were identifying as

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Speaker 3: fem but feeling quite complicated about what that marker meant

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Speaker 3: to them.

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Speaker 8: My performance of fem felt really uneven. FEM was really

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Speaker 8: like sparkly and glittery and polished, and my day to

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Speaker 8: day embodiment was not that in any way.

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Speaker 2: There was some practical body stuff that was blocking Alana

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Speaker 2: from being able to fully lean into their gender expression.

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Speaker 8: Trying to wear a dress while also trying to deal

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Speaker 8: with an insulin pump, which I wear all the time

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Speaker 8: and is just like dangling on this tube. It's hard

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Speaker 8: to figure out if you're wearing a strapless dress, which

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Speaker 8: I was doing sometimes at that time, like where is

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Speaker 8: that pump going to go? In a harness? Of course

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Speaker 8: that's the best place for it to rest while you're

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Speaker 8: going out you know, just kind of dealing with things

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Speaker 8: like that.

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Speaker 3: Elana was also trying to work out what fem meant

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Speaker 3: to her as an identity beyond the esthetics. She had

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Speaker 3: these legendary fem community leaders to look up to, people

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Speaker 3: like Mini Briecee Pratt and Amber Holloba really.

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Speaker 8: Like badass, engaged, sexy, tenacious fems. So I was really

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Speaker 8: appreciating the sort of ways in which people who I

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Speaker 8: knew as FEM were really embodying care and love and

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Speaker 8: community connection and solidarity, and those were all things that

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Speaker 8: I was also eager and trying to embody in my life.

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Speaker 8: So I had these very big shoes to fill in

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Speaker 8: my imagination of what FEM was. That was the part

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Speaker 8: where I felt like really inconsistent, not in a like

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Speaker 8: horribly deep struggle way, but I think that that was

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Speaker 8: part of what I was just puzzling through.

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Speaker 3: Probably the most famous song on Nebraska is Atlantic City.

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Speaker 3: The guy in it is in a pretty threatening situation,

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Speaker 3: tied up in gambling in crime, but in the song

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Speaker 3: he's speaking to his girlfriend. He tells her, put your

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Speaker 3: makeup on, get your hair well pretty, and meet me

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Speaker 3: tonight in Atlantic City.

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Speaker 8: This guy knows what has gone into this beauty knows

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Speaker 8: that it's a performance, right, Like knows that you're putting

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Speaker 8: on this makeup, you're putting on these stockings, you're putting

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Speaker 8: on this dress, that idea of being this person who

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Speaker 8: is so desired and appreciated for their effort at looking

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Speaker 8: a certain way and embodying a certain kind of femininity.

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Speaker 8: I had never met a cis man where I felt

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Speaker 8: the feeling of that gaze the way Bruce articulates it.

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Speaker 8: But I have felt that gaze from butch lesbians and

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Speaker 8: butch people for sure. And so for me, like when

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Speaker 8: I hear Bruce singing, like, oh, this is how I feel.

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Speaker 2: From this little moment of being seen by a line

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Speaker 2: in a Springsteen song, things really started to snowble. She

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Speaker 2: kept talking to queer fems about Bruce Springsteen.

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Speaker 8: He kept coming up across conversations with people who did

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Speaker 8: not know each other or even know each other. We well.

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Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Alana published a zine Because the Boss

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Speaker 2: Belongs to Us queer femmes on Bruce Springsteen.

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Speaker 8: The zene was very much a project of sort of

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Speaker 8: inviting and wanting to connect with people who could help

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Speaker 8: me understand how I felt about Bruce, especially because there

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Speaker 8: was this fem identification that everyone shared that it wasn't

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Speaker 8: a straightforward butch identification, and I think that was part

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Speaker 8: of the tangle that I was really interested in.

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Speaker 2: This scene because the boss belongs to us, is our namesake.

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Speaker 2: It came out way back in twenty eleven, and both

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Speaker 2: of us lapped it up. We love it. Alana is

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Speaker 2: basically a celebrity to us.

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Speaker 3: We are so excited to talk to you because we

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Speaker 3: are both your fan boys.

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Speaker 4: Wow, you're like one.

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Speaker 3: Of my origin story queer zine Bruce fans. And that's

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Speaker 3: the same view Hollly right.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely same for me. When I started the Me and

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Speaker 2: Bruce zine series, it was a way to try and

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Speaker 2: find other queer Bruce fans and try and connect with

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Speaker 2: that community. And instantly as soon as I did that,

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Speaker 2: everyone's like, well have you read this scene?

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Speaker 3: This is my favorite thing about being part of the

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Speaker 3: queer Breece Springsteen fandom. As soon as you discover it exists,

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Speaker 3: you become part of this kind of underground community. People

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Speaker 3: give you zcenes, send you articles, bring into a world

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Speaker 3: of people who are as obsessed with Bruce as you Are.

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Speaker 2: And alana zine, published over ten years ago, went a

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Speaker 2: long way into creating that community.

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Speaker 8: It was wonderful when the zine went out. People sent bootlegs,

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Speaker 8: people sent CD compilations of just the songs that they

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Speaker 8: would read as queer. Someone sent me a great flyer

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Speaker 8: from their anarchist cafe that had a stencil of Bruce

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Speaker 8: and said, the only Boss we listened to in Bruce's songs,

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Speaker 8: the vision isn't just of you going alone, but that

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Speaker 8: there's someone already waiting for you, someone who's ready to

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Speaker 8: go with you. That part of the dream that as

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Speaker 8: queer as we could go together, that you would not

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Speaker 8: be alone, that you would find your people. That's part

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Speaker 8: of the dream that I feel like this music embodies

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Speaker 8: for me.

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Speaker 2: Alana decided to bring all of these Queer Sprinstcene fans together.

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Speaker 2: She organized a Bruce Sprinkstcene themed cabaret night named.

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Speaker 8: Prove It All Night Queer's Do the Boss March of

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Speaker 8: twenty eleven at Club Cafe in Boston. The acts we

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Speaker 8: had ranged from people doing readings, to burlesque, to dance,

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Speaker 8: to mandolin, go go dancing.

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Speaker 3: It feels like a very beautiful coming together of things.

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Speaker 3: This scene that you made over ten years ago brought

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Speaker 3: me in Holly into our understanding that we're part of

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Speaker 3: a community. Is part of the reason that we then

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Speaker 3: met each other and decided to make this series, which

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Speaker 3: we're naming after your scene. And it also really, if

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Speaker 3: we're honest with ourselves, the only reason we're making this

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Speaker 3: is so that we get to nerd out about Bruce

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Speaker 3: with other Quick fans like you.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it feels like extremely fun and queer that you're

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Speaker 3: like a kind of blueprint for us continuing to do

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Speaker 3: community making in this way.

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Speaker 8: And I hope that this gives more people an invitation

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Speaker 8: to make more and more people like complicating Bruce. It

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Speaker 8: would also be great to see some critical work on

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Speaker 8: Bruce that's like, why does everyone love Bruce so much?

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Speaker 8: What's happening there? That would also be wonderful to see.

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Speaker 3: It's funny, isn't It feels like, Yeah, queer Bruce fans

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Speaker 3: definitely definitely exist.

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Speaker 4: And the more people you talk to, the more people tell.

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Speaker 3: You that they like Bruce, will tell you that they've

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Speaker 3: got a friend who's great who likes Bruce, or like

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Speaker 3: put you towards.

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Speaker 4: An article and all of these things.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but it doesn't feel like, you know, if you

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Speaker 3: were like, tell me a queer icon, right, you wouldn't

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Speaker 3: say Bruce right?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 4: No, what is it?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 8: I just I think that I'm wondering if part of

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Speaker 8: it is just that others have this experience of thinking

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Speaker 8: about someone who's I don't know, this American hero in

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Speaker 8: a certain way that that's not who we tend to

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Speaker 8: identify with.

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Speaker 3: That's the challenge of what we're trying to work out.

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Speaker 3: I guess, yes, is he even okay to say that

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Speaker 3: he's a queer icon?

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm still hung up on this question. Is

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Speaker 2: it even okay to say that this cis white, rich, straight,

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Speaker 2: ma'am is a queer icon?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I should agree.

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Speaker 3: I would really like to get to the button of

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Speaker 3: it before we have to present it to the panel

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Speaker 3: next week.

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Speaker 2: That's after the break.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Jesse and Holly letting you know about

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Speaker 3: another show you might want to listen to.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that Radiotopia has a reality dating podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's called Hang Up, and it's kind of like a

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Speaker 3: queer cross between the Bachelor and Lovers Blind.

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Speaker 2: And seriously, it's a blast.

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Speaker 4: I'm a long term listener. I've been there from day one.

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Speaker 3: Has all of the drama and chaos of a queer

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Speaker 3: reality show without any of the bullshit of unethical reality tropes.

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Speaker 2: Hang Ups tagline is no Rings Attached. It's a refreshing

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Speaker 2: focus on dating and connection rather than marriage. Here's a

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Speaker 2: little clip about their current season.

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Speaker 9: Our star TEAMO is forty one years old and recently divorced.

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Speaker 10: I haven't been on a single date in eighteen months,

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Speaker 10: but now.

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Speaker 9: They're looking for someone special and like really hot tacks,

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Speaker 9: really hot public sex. So we set them up with

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Speaker 9: six callers to date exclusively over the phone.

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Speaker 8: I feel like I could talk to you for hours

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Speaker 8: on hang Up.

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Speaker 2: You don't just get to eavesdrop on dates. There's also

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Speaker 2: a series of eliminations, and in the end there's a twist. Well,

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Speaker 2: the last caller standing choose the star and go on

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Speaker 2: an all expenses paid vacation together, or choose a cash

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Speaker 2: prize instead.

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Speaker 4: Guys, it's high drama.

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Speaker 2: Also, it's hosted by friend of the pod, Zakia Gibbons.

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Speaker 2: You might even hear a little something from her in

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Speaker 2: an upcoming up.

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Speaker 3: Said the new season has just finished, so it's perfect

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Speaker 3: time for binging. Ten out of ten would recommend to

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Speaker 3: a friend or love or given queer community, probably.

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Speaker 2: By subscribe to hang up Today on your favorite podcast.

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Speaker 6: Platform, Jesse Holly, because the bus belongs to us.

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Speaker 3: We're still sitting in my bedroom dotting the i's and

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Speaker 3: crossing the t's before next week when we have to

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Speaker 3: convince a panel of queers of Bruce's queer icon credentials.

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Speaker 2: I know, in episode four cj Ray told us to

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Speaker 2: go on with Upenhearts and find our own joy in

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Speaker 2: meeting and Bruce Bringsteen, but I still feel a bit

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Speaker 2: like that's one thing in terms of finding joy in

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Speaker 2: my personal fandom and another to make a decision on

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Speaker 2: behalf of the whole queer community.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if we're going to convince the panel of queers,

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Speaker 3: we need to have a proper justification for putting Bruce

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Speaker 3: on this I Compedistal. There's only one person I could

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Speaker 3: think of to help us put this question to bed.

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Speaker 5: So on the table in front of me, I've got

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Speaker 5: my almost entire zine collection. I've also put some little

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Speaker 5: stickers to book mark the pages that I want to

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Speaker 5: talk about. I just have performance anxieties, so I need

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Speaker 5: to prep.

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Speaker 8: So my name is.

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Speaker 5: Otto and I am drag king Georgis Michael also drag

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Speaker 5: daddy to Butch Springsteen, our very own producer of this

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Speaker 5: wonderful podcast.

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Speaker 4: I just really wanted to fatherly advice for this one.

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Speaker 5: I was saying to my colleague today. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: my drag son is coming later, and then she was like,

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Speaker 5: can you have a drag son? And It's like, yes,

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Speaker 5: I physically birth my drag son. In drag you can

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Speaker 5: just give birth to children and they I'm out fully formed.

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Speaker 5: An adult.

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Speaker 3: Otto or Georges Michael is an absolute legend of the

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Speaker 3: London drag scene.

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Speaker 4: He is as obsessed with George Michael as.

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Speaker 3: We are with Bruce Springsteen, and he thinks loads about

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Speaker 3: queer fandom and our relationship.

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Speaker 4: To the celebrity.

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Speaker 3: Of late, we've been feeling less confident about whether we

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Speaker 3: are in fact qualified to decide that he's a queer icon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we got pretty cocky to start.

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Speaker 3: People.

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Speaker 2: We're more examining we are on feelings. I'm a bit

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable about it having a white male millionaire on a pedestal.

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Speaker 2: His politics don't necessarily line with ours. How uncomfortable does

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Speaker 2: that make us feel should we be elevating or the

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Speaker 2: queers rather than elevating?

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Speaker 5: Will you say, is it wrong to kind of elevate

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Speaker 5: this person? But I think that the project of the

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Speaker 5: queer icon is also a part of self elevation. You know,

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Speaker 5: it's like community. Of course, there's like contributions to like

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Speaker 5: his bottom line in terms of record sales and people

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Speaker 5: going to his concerts. But the main point of fandom

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Speaker 5: is for people to get their nourishment, isn't it. We're

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Speaker 5: elevating ourselves through it.

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Speaker 6: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: We're getting?

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Speaker 3: Are you saying that the truths others themselves?

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Speaker 5: Maybe this one that's got a bit of a harsh edge.

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Speaker 3: This is a little recording I made the first time

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Speaker 3: Otter came to mind to teach me how to do

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Speaker 3: drag king.

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Speaker 2: Makeup great, you're just looking great.

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Speaker 3: Me and Otto became friends through drag. We met through

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Speaker 3: another friend from the scene when I was first starting

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Speaker 3: to develop my but Springsteen character, And now some could say,

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Speaker 3: thanks to my love of Bruce prestein we're drag family.

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Speaker 3: So this is one of Utter's zines that he gave

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Speaker 3: me for my birthday last year. It's called careless whisper

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Speaker 3: Confessions of a drag king. I'm just gonna read a

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Speaker 3: bit from this passage in there about fandom. It's actually

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Speaker 3: a Jack Healbuson queer art of failure reference. There is

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Speaker 3: a phenomenon I like to call the queer ut of fandom,

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Speaker 3: reffing Ugh the queer ut of failure by Jack Halbuston.

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Speaker 3: This is the near devotional further with which we revere.

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Speaker 5: Our cultural icons as queers. These icons don't need to

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Speaker 5: be gay themselves, think Madonna, Elvis, Bruce Springsteen, though they

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Speaker 5: sometimes are in the case of George, but either way

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Speaker 5: they come to mean something particular in the ways in

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Speaker 5: which queers fan them, and that is to fan as

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Speaker 5: a verb. See the dance floor of a queer party

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Speaker 5: when anything by Robin starts to play, or the Internet

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Speaker 5: and lesbian meme culture since twenty nineteen. Perhaps it's because

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Speaker 5: as a community we have historically had to speak in

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Speaker 5: codes for safety, so cultural figures become a kind of proxy,

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Speaker 5: a way of recognizing ourselves and each other. This also

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Speaker 5: plays out in drag, which, like zene memes and dance flaws,

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Speaker 5: can be a kind of fandom. You see it in

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Speaker 5: the recurring characters who get impersonated at drag Nights. I'm

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Speaker 5: not the only George Michael, and I've also seen many

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Speaker 5: of Freddie Mercury and a Prince, the artists who hold

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Speaker 5: a special place in our hearts.

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Speaker 2: I love this idea of thinking about too fam as

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Speaker 2: a verb. It makes it feel more active and places

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Speaker 2: the agency with the fans.

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Speaker 3: Some of the references Otto used to Robert on the

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Speaker 3: dance Floor lesbian mean culture reminded me of something tams

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Speaker 3: In from Unskinny Bop said last episode. Potentially one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons our experience of finding other queer Bruce Springsteen

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Speaker 3: fans has felt kind of underground is because the queering

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Speaker 3: of male celebrities by Dyke's trans masks in their powers

401
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Speaker 3: is a more recent phenomenon. Is there a specific way

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Speaker 3: our little sub sections of the queer community do fandom

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Speaker 3: that's different to the people who lifted the likes of

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Speaker 3: Madonna or Brittany to their queer eye com pedestals.

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Speaker 10: Someone did once come to my apartment said that they

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Speaker 10: didn't like Bruce that I joked that they had to leave.

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Speaker 2: This is afy.

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Speaker 10: I'm afi yellow Duke. I live in Brooklyn, New York,

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Speaker 10: and I'm a queer Bruce brincetit. I feel like I

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Speaker 10: laughed saying that, because it feels like a funny thing

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Speaker 10: to slap as a label on myself. I don't think

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Speaker 10: it's solf is part of like a larger fandom or

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Speaker 10: anything like that, which is maybe why I'm sort of

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Speaker 10: like it's funny to identify myself that way.

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Speaker 2: After he grew up between New York and New Jersey.

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Speaker 10: There's this bucket of like Bruce as this person with

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Speaker 10: a complicated relationship to where he's from. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 10: like in real life, he still lives in New Jersey.

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Speaker 10: He's very wealthy and successful. It's probably all fine, but

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Speaker 10: I do think there's a way where, like so much

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Speaker 10: of his music is about loving a place and not

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Speaker 10: necessarily feeling part of it, or loving a place and

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Speaker 10: also knowing you have to leave at some point.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's a.

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Speaker 10: Very queer relationship to home. And I think that's definitely

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Speaker 10: a thing that feels relatable to me.

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Speaker 2: As AFI grew up their taste in Springsteen songs, grew

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Speaker 2: with them from summers in New Jersey as a kid.

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Speaker 10: You're on the board walk, you're at the beach, you're

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Speaker 10: like doing your little activities. One of his hits is

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Speaker 10: usually playing in the background somewhere, and I feel like

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Speaker 10: it tends towards the more like poppy or stuff like

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Speaker 10: dancing in the dark, like all the like big hits

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Speaker 10: are the ones that I feel like I can think

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Speaker 10: of as like these are like the childhood songs.

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Speaker 4: And then as a teenager, I.

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Speaker 10: Have one memory of like watching the Cheffer than the

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Speaker 10: Rest video and I was like particularly sad obviously and

439
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Speaker 10: being like, oh, like this is about being afraid of

440
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 10: love and also like being willing to try again in

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Speaker 10: a way that I thought was really poignant and beautiful. Later,

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Speaker 10: as an adult, I really moved towards Nebraska Tunnel of Love.

443
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 10: Obviously still in the Cynthia eighties era, but we're still

444
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 10: like moving a little. Like his sound is maturing. I'm maturing,

445
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 10: I guess.

446
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 3: And this pattern of Bruce kind of soundtracking AFI's emotions,

447
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: his sound maturing alongside her continues even today.

448
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 10: I saw him for the very first time live in

449
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 10: last September. I was very struck by like how like

450
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 10: emotionally vulnerable he was. I mean, you know, now he's

451
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 10: in his seventies, he's very much thinking about the end

452
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 10: of his life. He's like very much talking about like

453
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 10: how all of his friends are dead, like everyone he

454
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 10: started performing with when he was a teenager, Like they're

455
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 10: all dead now and he's mostly the one who's left

456
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 10: and successful. That vulnerability I was sort of comforted by.

457
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 10: It was a little like WHOA, we're here and he's

458
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 10: talking about dying. And also like, WHOA, we're here and

459
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 10: he's talking about dying. That's like really cool and special.

460
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 10: I'm not at that life stage, but I'm thinking about

461
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 10: getting older trying to figure out some of those things.

462
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: It's interesting hearing Afy talk about how they kind of

463
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: grew up with brace, especially because often in straight world

464
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 2: upside so fandom itself is seen as this kind of

465
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: childish thing. Almost that's next.

466
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 3: We're back because thinking about the way queers do fandom

467
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: after Yellow Duke.

468
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: Had this beautiful experience of different Bruce Songs soundtrack in

469
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: their life growing up, which got us thinking about the

470
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: way the age and maturity play out in narratives of fandom.

471
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: My Drag Dad, Autoweights, or George's Michael thinks a lot about.

472
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 5: This fandom is associated quite heavily with adolescents. There's something

473
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 5: that feels quite queer about that obsessional yeah, over extending.

474
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is this idea I think you mentioned earlier

475
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: about fandom is a teenage thing. It's a young thing

476
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: that you grow out of. So as adults who still

477
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: really are obsessed with stuff, yeah, or we kind of should.

478
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: We're grown up by now and be more adult in

479
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: what we do. And there's also an element of gender

480
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: as well, Like there's this idea that if you're a

481
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: fan for usually a girl, you're usually very like a

482
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: passive consumer and it's very silly, frivolous thing to do,

483
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: as opposed to men who like football, which is a

484
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: real fandom.

485
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, but how how do queers.

486
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: The fantom differently?

487
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 5: I mean, I think there's something about the intensity of

488
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 5: the fandom. For me, I think we do fandom with love.

489
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 5: I don't see this harsh edge that you get at

490
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 5: the football match. I kind of want to say this

491
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 5: without like doing a dirty on football, because I don't.

492
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 5: People have what they have and I'm happy for people

493
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 5: to have the things that make them happy, and I

494
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 5: think that that's probably the case with a lot of

495
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 5: straight culture is that it's built on this premise of competition. Now,

496
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 5: as I say that, I'm just thinking about like drag

497
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 5: and competitions all of that. But then I think it

498
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: stems back to like the Balls in like New York,

499
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 5: where the whole thing was a competition, but it was

500
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 5: a satire on the competition of capitalism that we have

501
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 5: every day, because it was like, yeah, I could win

502
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 5: this thing. If homophobia didn't exist, I could be executive realness,

503
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 5: I could like own my own company. The root of

504
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 5: it is it's coming from a place of love.

505
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 3: I feel like you maybe hit the name on the head, Holly,

506
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 3: when you were saying that, Like when you're describing fandom

507
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: as something which people think about as childish and something

508
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: that you grow out of that is like an inherently

509
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 3: queer experience.

510
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 4: Like right now, so I'm.

511
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: Thirty one, and what I want, which is like communal

512
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: living and like other things like that are seen by

513
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 3: some parts of straight society as childish.

514
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 4: Right, Like people talk.

515
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 3: Loads at being like and what you're going to do

516
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: in your next stage of life, like the kind of

517
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 3: exactly yeah, yeah, and like it's all pointing towards heteronomyas

518
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: blah blah, et cetera. And I wonder whether that's like

519
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: the inherent queenness of fandom is like it's this really

520
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: fun thing that other people think like having that crazy obsession. Yeah,

521
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: people think of that as this like and it's actually

522
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: infantilizing thing, indulging in yourself.

523
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're indulging a thing, but you're.

524
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: Also spending time on yourself and the things that you

525
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: really love. Not many people get to do that.

526
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 5: I think it's also relational, and I think maybe because

527
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 5: in queer communities we don't have as much this idea

528
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 5: of like the heteronormative nuclear family unit, and we've had

529
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 5: to do things like chosen family that also includes you know,

530
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 5: chosen icons and aesthetics that we draw from. It's like

531
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 5: it's a relationship that you have with this, and I

532
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 5: think that queers are really good at relationships. And the

533
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 5: ways that we love our friends is similar to the

534
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 5: ways that we love our icons. That desire to kind

535
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 5: of hold each other up as opposed to a desire

536
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 5: to put each other down, which I think is much

537
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 5: more prevalent in straight culture because we already have failed

538
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 5: because of the queer art of failure. We're already failing

539
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 5: against those modes, so therefore we find our own ways

540
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 5: to navigate. But we're also pushed into that space, so

541
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 5: it's both coming from within and coming from without. We're

542
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 5: seen as being perpetual children. Also, because we're playful and

543
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 5: creative and ingenious, we also make that space for ourselves.

544
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 5: Fandom is a wonderful way to play this idea of

545
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 5: playing with the different motifs, the different symbols, playing with

546
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 5: the music, reading things into it. Where it may may

547
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 5: or may not be, it doesn't really matter because it's

548
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 5: fun and sharing that and creating culture.

549
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: Qui is also really good at creating culture. This is

550
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: definitely something we can relate to. I don't care if

551
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: Bruce actually chose a gender neutral name on purpose for.

552
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 4: Bobby g Yeah or Backstreets Yeah.

553
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: The thing I care about is that I have chosen

554
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: to read a queer love story into those lyrics. It's

555
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: not about Bruce. It's about me creating my own queer

556
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: signified treasure hunt.

557
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 3: This is something Happy talks about too. When they went

558
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: to see Bruce Bringsteen live last year, there was this

559
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: one moment.

560
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 10: Born until Brene came out in the iron Core. We

561
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 10: had been like trying to figure out when it was

562
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 10: going to happen, Like it's going to happen? When is

563
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 10: he doing boring to Ren and friends? Aren't the concert

564
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 10: with like screamed this scream that truly to this day

565
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 10: I think about because it was just like I've never

566
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 10: heard him scream like that before, and it was like beautiful,

567
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 10: and we're all we're all jumping along screaming, and we're

568
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 10: just like, yeah, like tramps like us, Like tramps like us,

569
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 10: Like that's a different those are different traps for like

570
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 10: you all.

571
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: Yes, the amount of times I've cried a breastcake because

572
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: of queer meaning and then turned and seen a man

573
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: cry next to me and thought, wait, what are you

574
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: crying about?

575
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 10: And I was thinking about these sort of like American

576
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 10: rights that like for me is like a queer person

577
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 10: and a black person don't feel accessible. There's a way

578
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 10: in which you can still find a place. Not that

579
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 10: I like deeply long for a certain type of American life,

580
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 10: but I do think there's a way where there's like

581
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 10: a sliver of that that I could access through being

582
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 10: a Bruce fan. Not that I'm like a raging patriot

583
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 10: either like to be very clear, like that's not what

584
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 10: I'm trying to say, But like I do think there's

585
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 10: a way where like, oh, like it doesn't have to

586
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 10: look a certain way. That I think is what maybe

587
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 10: past versions of myself were trying to work out what

588
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 10: he means in this like American icon way. Even though

589
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 10: his music is like critiquing the struggle that is the

590
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 10: why of the American dream. I mean, he's also very

591
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 10: much a symbol of that, Like he did the thing,

592
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 10: like he succeeded. I think that's part of what is

593
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 10: still I think kind of complicated. I am engaging with

594
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 10: his music because I see queer signifiers in it, you know.

595
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 10: I mean he's describing like straight relationships and his more

596
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 10: like romantic songs, and like I don't necessarily have to

597
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 10: be listening to them and being like I'm assuming the

598
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 10: character of a straight man to like relate to this.

599
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 10: It doesn't feel like work to have to like readjust

600
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 10: as I'm listening. We're writing ourselves in, I think, and

601
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 10: that can be really nice. It sometimes it feels very

602
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 10: silly to be like zooming out of this conversation line

603
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 10: in my brain, being like I am doing all this

604
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 10: to talk about this like straight man, But it does

605
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 10: feel sort of like there is an importance to people

606
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 10: to be able to feel we can be reflected back

607
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 10: in some way.

608
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting because sometimes I think about that

609
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: in terms of like a scarcity model of like, for

610
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: so long queer people were so kind of like starffed

611
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: of icons and role models and public figures and older

612
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: figures for loads of different, you know, really difficult reasons.

613
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,239
Speaker 3: And so sometimes I'm like, it's the queer trait that

614
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: we kind of have to find ourselves in people that

615
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: we're not relatable to because we didn't have anything else.

616
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: But I like the way that you talked about it

617
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: is kind of the opposite of that of being like

618
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: we're just really good at it, like we just make

619
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: things about us.

620
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, we really just extremely.

621
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: Nur Disclaiming and reclaiming molding a culture to fit ourselves

622
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 3: is something Otto's really interested in too.

623
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 5: I read this essay. It was by the godmother of

624
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 5: queer theory, Kasofski Sedgwick. Also, I should say the title

625
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 5: of this essay, which is You're so paranoid. I bet

626
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: you think this essay is about.

627
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: You, Eve Kasofski centric says that often people with marginalized

628
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: identities consume culture in a kind of suspicious way, automatically

629
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: assuming it is not for people like them, or even

630
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: that it is actively harmful to their community.

631
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: You know, nothing's going to surprise me, because I already

632
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 5: know everything is fucked. It's kind of how I would

633
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: say it.

634
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: But then she describes an alternative, which she calls reparative reading,

635
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: and she says.

636
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 5: What happens when we looked at the ways in which

637
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 5: people and communities manage to extract sustenance from the objects

638
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 5: of culture, films, books, traditions, even a culture who is

639
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 5: a vowed desire has often been not to sustain them,

640
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 5: which I think is something that really resonates with me

641
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 5: as a person living in a culture that is like

642
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 5: really really out to get you, especially growing up on

643
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 5: the section twenty eight, but now also because it's a

644
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 5: really hostile time and we're seeing this really repressive turn,

645
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 5: it's very easy to read things, not in a paranoid way,

646
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 5: but in a way that like it is really out

647
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 5: to get you, Like it's not a fantasy, it's it's real.

648
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 5: But actually, I guess reading with a way to heel

649
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 5: yourself through your narratives that you're finding becomes a way

650
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 5: to take that culture just fucking love it anyway, and

651
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 5: to find yourself there and to find nourishment despite what

652
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 5: is ostensibly trying to hold you out.

653
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 10: It's not like hugely important in the grand scheme of

654
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 10: things that like queer people can like see themselves in

655
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 10: these like iconic straight figures like Bruce or Taylor Swift

656
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 10: or Beyonce or whatever like.

657
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 4: But I do think.

658
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 10: There's a way where it's still important for us to

659
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 10: be able to like stake a flag down, like we're

660
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 10: here and we feel a relationship to this that is

661
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 10: important to people.

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00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 5: That's the power of fandom is it's like I'm gonna

663
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 5: fuck I can love you. It's trying to repair and

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00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 5: trying to heal and finding that strength within ourselves.

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00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: I love this.

666
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: I love the idea of knowing things about to get you,

667
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: but that making it even more powerful when we make

668
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: the active decision to claim it for ourselves.

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00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

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00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: I love the pure Sassin saying you're not for me,

671
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: but I'm going to fucking love you anyway.

672
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 3: Holly Jesse, our scientific journey is almost complete. We're just

673
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: putting the finishing touches in our sea of evidence, giving

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00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: a final look through lyrics, reading through fan testimonies, and

675
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: spending as much time as science requires to image search.

676
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 3: Bruce lesbian Jacket and Bruce put lag alote, of course,

677
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 3: but will there's be enough for our final point on

678
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: our checklist?

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00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: Well, I think I found the perfect quote, and I

680
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: feel like it speaks to what Afi and Otto were

681
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: talking about. So this is from a chapter called Fandom

682
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: as Pathology the Consequences of Characterization by Jerlie Jensen, and

683
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 2: it's from the book The Adoring Audience, Fan Culture and

684
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: Popular Media by Lisa A.

685
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: Lewis.

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00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: So Julie Jensen writes fandom should be explored in relation

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00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: to the larger question of what it means to desire, cherish, seek, long, admire, envy, celebrate, protect,

688
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: and ally with others. Fandom is an aspect of how

689
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: we make sense of the world. So, in other words,

690
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: we are perfect and actually we are doing fandom exactly right.

691
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I smatching this.

692
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: We're using fandom to make sense of our dystopian landscapes

693
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: while also finding ourselves and others along the way. I

694
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 3: feel ready to face the panel. We've proved that Bruce

695
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 3: Bingstein is camp.

696
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: We find our struggles reflected in Bruce's music at the

697
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 2: very least, and.

698
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 3: We have some thoughts and feelings about queering Bruce Springsteen

699
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: as a project that ultimate that helps us find meaning

700
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 3: in our lives.

701
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: Which we and many others have done through dancing, crying,

702
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: and fucking to his music.

703
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: Will all this be enough to convince a panel of

704
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: queer experts who could not give less of a shit

705
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: about Bruce Springsteen that he is, in fact the queer icon.

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00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: That's next episode, Because the Bass Belongs to Us is

707
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: a production of malten Hart and iHeart Podcasts were hosted

708
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 2: by Jesse Lawson and Holly Cassio.

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00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: This series is executive produced by Jesse and Holly and

710
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: created by Jesse Lawson.

711
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 2: This episode was produced and sound designed by Jesse Lawson,

712
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: with production assistants by Molly Nugents and Tess Hazel. Michelle

713
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: mackclum is our mix engineer.

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00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: Our original music and theme is by Talk Bazaar at

715
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 3: Talk ba z aar Underscore. Our show art was designed

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00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 3: and illustrated by Holly Cassio at Holly c Asio.

717
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 2: In fact Check in by Serena Serlin. Legal service is

718
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 2: provided by Rowan, Moron and File.

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00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 3: Our executive producer from Malton Hart is Jasmine J. T.

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00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 4: Green.

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00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 3: Our executive producer from iHeart Podcasts is Lindsay Hoffman.

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00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 2: A huge thank you and shout out to Lauren Purcell

723
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: for all of her support.

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00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: A reminder that our friends have released six absolutely stunning

725
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: Bruce covers to celebrate the series. There's a link in

726
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: our show notes for the Queer Springsteen playlist.

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00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: Listen there. Don't forget to review the show on our

728
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 4: podcast platform.

729
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: And tell your friends to listen. It makes a huge

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00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: difference because the bust, the bust, the burst