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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now is entrepreneur and presidential candidate Vivike Ramaswami.

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Speaker 3: Vivike, Welcome to the show. It's good to see you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very glad to have you.

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Speaker 4: Good to see you guys.

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Speaker 1: All right, so make your pitch. Why you instead of

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Speaker 1: the guy that was their last time, Donald Trump?

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Speaker 5: So I see the rest of the GOP field. They

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Speaker 5: are running from something. I'm the person in this race

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Speaker 5: who is leading us to something, to our vision of

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Speaker 5: what it actually means to be an American. We're in

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Speaker 5: the middle of a national identity crisis in our country. Faith, patriotism,

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Speaker 5: hard work, family, these things have disappeared, and I think

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Speaker 5: that leaves a moral vacuum in its way, a black hole.

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Speaker 5: And when you have a black hole that runs that deep.

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Speaker 5: That is when the poison fills the void. And I

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Speaker 5: think we in the GOP and in the conservative movement

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Speaker 5: often obsess over the poison. Wokeism, transgenderism, climatism, covidism, globalism.

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Speaker 4: You name it, I view it.

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Speaker 5: These symptoms are just symptoms of a deeper, underlying void

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Speaker 5: of purpose and meaning.

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Speaker 4: And I think I'm in the candidate.

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Speaker 5: In this race who's actually offering an affirmative vision as

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Speaker 5: opposed to just saying that we're not doing what the

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Speaker 5: left is doing. No individual, family, nation, God, these are

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Speaker 5: the things that ground us.

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Speaker 4: I think we should talk.

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Speaker 5: About them in the open, and I think that's what

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Speaker 5: we're having.

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Speaker 4: Success early on Vivik.

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Speaker 2: There's been some discussions in recent days around your book

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Speaker 2: about January sixth, especially given concurrent potential pending indictments against

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Speaker 2: the former president.

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Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: In your book, you wrote, quote, the loser of the

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Speaker 2: last election refused to concede the race and claim the

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Speaker 2: election was stolen, raised hundreds of millions of alis from

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Speaker 2: loyal supporters. It's considering running for executive office again. I'm

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Speaker 2: referring to Donald Trump. Do you still believe that Trump

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Speaker 2: actually lost the election in the January sixth was a

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Speaker 2: dark day for democracy.

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Speaker 5: I was in detail in both of my books and articles,

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Speaker 5: and I've been very consistent about this throughout.

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Speaker 4: I have seen no evidence.

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Speaker 5: It's exactly what I said in Nation of Victims, and

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Speaker 5: I haven't seen the evidence since that there was a

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Speaker 5: scale of ballot fraud that would have changed the outcome

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Speaker 5: of the twenty twenty presidential election.

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Speaker 4: I've also said in.

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Speaker 5: That same book and ever since that the real way

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Speaker 5: the election was, in a narrow sense stolen was the

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Speaker 5: suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story on the eve

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Speaker 5: of the election.

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Speaker 4: I'm data driven.

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Speaker 5: The data is compelling, including three sixty degree polling data

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Speaker 5: that said people would have changed their vote had they

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Speaker 5: been exposed to information that was systematically suppressed. So that's

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Speaker 5: my view was big tech interference was the problem. I

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Speaker 5: haven't seen any evidence of systematic ballot fraud being the basis.

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Speaker 4: For a difference in result.

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Speaker 5: But most importantly, I think a lot of these factors

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Speaker 5: did lead to and culminate in what happened on January sixth,

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Speaker 5: systematic suppression of information, and I think until we have

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Speaker 5: reconciled ourselves with that reality. I'm afraid we're going to

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Speaker 5: see much worse in the future. That is why I'm

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Speaker 5: in this race to speak the truth and to lead

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Speaker 5: us to something so that we can actually be one

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Speaker 5: nation rather than on our march to a national divorce.

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Speaker 5: And I think I'm better positioned to lead that nation

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Speaker 5: forward than Donald Trump or anybody else in this Republican field.

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Speaker 1: So one reason that we're asking some of these questions

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Speaker 1: is because we are expecting indictments with regard to January

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Speaker 1: six for President Trump as soon as today, but potentially

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Speaker 1: this week. You've said in the past that you would

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Speaker 1: pardon former President Trump if you are yourself elected president

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Speaker 1: of the United States. I mean, is that hard and fast,

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Speaker 1: or is your mind open to change if there was

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Speaker 1: some new evidence that was presented that you aren't aware of,

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Speaker 1: or you just you're locked in you're going to pardon

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Speaker 1: them and it really doesn't matter what comes out.

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Speaker 4: No, I'm data d on the first two indictments.

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Speaker 5: I read them completely before making my statement that I

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Speaker 5: would pardon Trump, both for the most recent documents case,

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Speaker 5: which for reasons I've laid out elsewhere, we can go

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Speaker 5: into it, I think is absolutely politically motivated, is absolutely

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Speaker 5: a national disaster if this proceeds to a conviction. I

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Speaker 5: think it was a disaster that it proceeded to an indictment. Yes,

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Speaker 5: I would pardon him for that, and I would also

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Speaker 5: pardon him for the New York case. And yes, I

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Speaker 5: know state law federal law. I've made an argument on

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Speaker 5: the pages of the Wall Street Journal as to why

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Speaker 5: the president can pardon him for that crime as well.

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Speaker 5: Based on what I know, I would absolutely pardon him

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Speaker 5: for the alleged offenses underlying a potential January sixth indictment.

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Speaker 5: I think that would be a national disaster as well,

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Speaker 5: potentially even more dangerous than the other two because of

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Speaker 5: Section three of the fourteenth Amendment, this one could actually

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Speaker 5: disqualify him from holding office. And I say this as

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Speaker 5: somebody who's now polling third in the Republican field. It

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Speaker 5: would be easier for me if Donald Trump were not

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Speaker 5: in this race, but that is not the way I

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Speaker 5: want to win this election. I think that we should

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Speaker 5: not become a country where the party in power uses

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Speaker 5: police force to indict and eliminate its political opposition.

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Speaker 4: So exactly why we do things in this country.

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Speaker 1: I want to get a clarity on your position, so

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Speaker 1: on the document's case in particular. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you, you know, given what we know,

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Speaker 1: and he deserves his day in court, et cetera. But

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Speaker 1: looks pretty clear he held on to a bunch of

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Speaker 1: very classified material when he started getting calls from the

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Speaker 1: government and from law enforcement saying, hey, you know, we

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Speaker 1: know you've got some things, will you cooperate with us?

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Speaker 1: According to what's been presented so far, it looks like

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Speaker 1: not only did he not cooperate, that he, you know,

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Speaker 1: moved some boxes around and tried to conceal exactly what

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Speaker 1: he had. Don't you think that a private citizen that

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Speaker 1: engaged in those types of activities wouldn't they also be

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Speaker 1: indicted and probably given a lot less grace and a

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Speaker 1: lot fewer second chances than former President Trump was in

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Speaker 1: this instance.

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Speaker 5: So I tracked the facts against the law. And one

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Speaker 5: critical feature, Crystal, is that this was the former president

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Speaker 5: of the United States, and there is a statute that

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Speaker 5: covers former presidents of the United States and how they

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Speaker 5: relate to both classified and unclassified documents. That's the Presidential

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Speaker 5: Records Act that came after the Act under which he

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Speaker 5: was indicted, which I think is one of the most

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Speaker 5: Unamerican statutes, the Espionage Act, and I wrote an extensive

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Speaker 5: piece in the Wall Street Journal about why I would

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Speaker 5: repeal that Act. It's been abused for most of our

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Speaker 5: national history. I think it was abused here. So the

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Speaker 5: Presidential Records Act makes clear what access a president of

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Speaker 5: the United States has to at least unclassified documents on

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Speaker 5: the theory that he's being prosecuted against. Actually, the Espionage

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Speaker 5: Act does not distinguish between classified or unclassified documents, which

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Speaker 5: means that there's a strong legal argument that the Presidential

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Speaker 5: Records Act supersedes the Espionage Act as it relates to

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Speaker 5: presidents who touch that, who deal with classified or unclassified documents.

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Speaker 4: Tried the law very carefully. It's legal.

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Speaker 1: So you actually don't think that he deserved indictment here,

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Speaker 1: and that it doesn't so you think a president in

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Speaker 1: theory could be indicted, or a former president could be indicted.

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Speaker 1: You just disagree with this particular legal case. Is that

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Speaker 1: the gist of your position here.

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Speaker 5: That's absolutely correct on strong legal footing. This was a

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Speaker 5: bad judgment, and I want to be very clear, I

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Speaker 5: would have made in many of these instances, probably in

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Speaker 5: every one of these instances, different judgments than Donald Trump made.

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Speaker 5: And I will remind you I'm running against him for

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Speaker 5: this nation in a Republican primary. But we cannot conflate

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Speaker 5: a bad judgment with a crime. We have to actually

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Speaker 5: match it up with the law. That's the problem with

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Speaker 5: the Alvin Bragg indictment, that's the problem with the first

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Speaker 5: Jack Smith indictment. These facts do not meet the law

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Speaker 5: and the legal test relevant to the actual facts at issue.

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Speaker 5: And the fact that that indictment, in forty nine pages,

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Speaker 5: did not once mention the Presidential Records Act is one

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Speaker 5: of many signs of politicization. They included statements that Trump

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Speaker 5: had made on the campaign trail against Hillary Clinton in

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Speaker 5: an indictment.

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Speaker 4: I had no place in an indictment.

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Speaker 5: But if you were going to include those statements, they

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Speaker 5: should have also, at least for completeness, included Trump's statement

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Speaker 5: after he won the election saying that he would not

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Speaker 5: go after Hillary Clinton for those same alleged defenses. So

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Speaker 5: this reeks to me of politicization, and I think it

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Speaker 5: sets an awful precedent for prosecutions in this country.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say and then I'll let Sager move

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Speaker 1: on to the next area that we want to get

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Speaker 1: from you. But I mean, they literally have him on tape,

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Speaker 1: being like this document is classified. When I was president,

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Speaker 1: I could have declassified it, but I didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: Let me show it to you. It seems to me,

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Speaker 1: and based on a lot of legal analysis that I've read,

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Speaker 1: and even his own lawyers and teams saying that they

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Speaker 1: think that his only out now is not through the

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Speaker 1: legal system but by winning reelection as president of the

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Speaker 1: United States, that this is a fairly compelling case. It's

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Speaker 1: certainly one that would be brought against an ordinary citizen.

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Speaker 1: So we'll just agree to disagree on our legal analysis

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Speaker 1: here because I want to move forward.

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Speaker 5: To one stalk point, because the just crystal the critical

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Speaker 5: point is there is a special law that deals with

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Speaker 5: presidents of the United States, so the analogy of what

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Speaker 5: an ordinary citizen would be.

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Speaker 1: But he's not president more.

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Speaker 5: The Presidential Records Act explicitly is written to cover present

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Speaker 5: You know that.

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Speaker 1: If you had documents laying around.

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Speaker 4: Behavior.

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Speaker 5: But I've written extensively, and I believe the law should

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Speaker 5: be applied. Actually, rather than making up the law.

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Speaker 1: Records, he'll have his chance to make a case in court.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I do actually want to ask you also

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Speaker 2: about another one of your opponents. You don't often get

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Speaker 2: asked about as much, Governor Ron DeSantis. We actually have

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Speaker 2: a more recent poll, let's go and put this up

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Speaker 2: there on the screen, which actually shows you tied with

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Speaker 2: him in this race. However, interestingly enough, an analysis of

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Speaker 2: some of the voters that he are losing really seems

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Speaker 2: to be around the central role that he's made wokeness

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Speaker 2: in his campaign. Since you have also not only written

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Speaker 2: a book about wokeness, you talk about it quite a bit,

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Speaker 2: why do you think his message here isn't resonating and

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Speaker 2: are you learning anything from his continuing fall in the polls.

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Speaker 5: So Zacher, I want to be clear, my message in

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Speaker 5: this campaign is fundamentally different than Ron DeSantis's message. And yes,

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Speaker 5: when I wrote my book Woke in long before the

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Speaker 5: word woke was in the Republican parlance, I was analyzing

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Speaker 5: a problem that at that point was poorly understood by

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Speaker 5: many Americans in this country. In this campaign, I'm moving

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Speaker 5: us forward. This is about national identity. I think wokeness

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Speaker 5: is just a symptom of our deeper void for purpose

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Speaker 5: and meaning in our country, and I think people are

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Speaker 5: hungry for the real answer here, not playing whack a

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Speaker 5: mole with wokeism to climatism, symptomatic therapy. I think people

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Speaker 5: are hungry for the real thing. I want to be

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Speaker 5: very clear. I think rodn DeSantis, in many ways certainly

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Speaker 5: has been a very good governor in Florida. Of course,

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Speaker 5: you could pick something in anybody's record, so nobody's perfect,

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Speaker 5: but I think by and large he's been a good governor.

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Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of parallels between him and

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Speaker 5: Scott Walker, who was also an excellent governor. I think

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Speaker 5: there's a role for everyone in our movement and in

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Speaker 5: our country.

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Speaker 4: He's a great executor.

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Speaker 5: But when it comes to leading this nation, I think,

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Speaker 5: as Reagan provided in nineteen eighty leading us out of

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Speaker 5: our last national identity crisis, I think what this moment

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Speaker 5: calls for is a leader who has a vision for

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Speaker 5: where we are going, a vision for what it actually means.

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Speaker 4: To be an American.

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Speaker 5: And I think there's a difference between being able to

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Speaker 5: articulate and inspire people around an affirmative vision and being

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Speaker 5: able to litigate small ball grievances as a way of,

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Speaker 5: you know, executing within a state.

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Speaker 2: One of the core things that you have led with

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Speaker 2: is I'm the guy who will actually get it done.

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Speaker 3: You know, I will actually execute the America First movement.

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Speaker 2: But if you look at Governor Desandas, this is a

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Speaker 2: man who turned to a blue state, or at least

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Speaker 2: purpolest state, actually read he won a twenty point electoral victory.

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Speaker 2: He has legislated, you know, actually gotten things done through

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Speaker 2: actual political process. So why should we take somebody who

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Speaker 2: is an entrepreneur with no actual political experience over an

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Speaker 2: elected governor of millions of people. Somebody's proven himself in

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Speaker 2: a state legislature. When you're looking at your two records

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Speaker 2: on the who can get it done question?

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Speaker 5: Well, look, I've gotten a lot of things done in

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Speaker 5: my life as well. I've built multi billion dollar companies

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Speaker 5: from scratch, employed thousands of people in this country, and

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Speaker 5: so everyone in this race, from Dissantus to myself has

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Speaker 5: prior accomplishments to be able to point to.

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Speaker 4: I think the question is.

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Speaker 5: The unique challenge of being the president of the United

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Speaker 5: States and leading us forward. One of the things that's

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Speaker 5: different from me and every other single candidate in this

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Speaker 5: race is I'm the only one who is not bound

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Speaker 5: by the constraints applied by the Megrodno class. This is

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Speaker 5: the super PAC primary, absolutely, and I think we have

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Speaker 5: a lot of super Pac puppets in this election. Last

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Speaker 5: time around it was Jeb Bush and Scott Walker. This

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Speaker 5: time we have a lot more n a puppet. Well,

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Speaker 5: you can look at whose campaigns are principally funded by

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Speaker 5: super PACs and follow the facts for yourself. But what

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Speaker 5: I will say is that I am unconstrained by that.

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Speaker 5: I've put in fifteen plus million dollars already of my

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Speaker 5: heart earned money, precisely because I did not want to

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Speaker 5: take a tin can ring a hat in hand and

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Speaker 5: ask a bunch of donors for permission to run, because

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Speaker 5: that comes with constraints. And so when we're talking about

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Speaker 5: the issues we really need to attack shutting down the

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Speaker 5: administrative state, from the FBI to the ATF, to the IRS,

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Speaker 5: to the Department of Education to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,

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Speaker 5: where I've laid out unprecedented clarity in exactly how we

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Speaker 5: will do it on strong legal authority, declaring independence from

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Speaker 5: China very touchy issue in the Republican donor class.

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Speaker 4: Other issues that I'm tackling.

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Speaker 5: Other candidates are constrained if they're tied to mega donors

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Speaker 5: that have interests that stop them my position on Ukraine.

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Speaker 6: There.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you a follow up on the super

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Speaker 1: Pac thing, because I think that's interesting that you have

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Speaker 1: that critique of money in politics. I mean, would you

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Speaker 1: push for a constitutional amendment to change that? What would

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Speaker 1: you do to try to diminish the influence of that

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Speaker 1: money in politics? And also equally, isn't it just as

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Speaker 1: problematic that you've been a very wealthy, successful guy that

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Speaker 1: you're able to, you know, with your own cash, really

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Speaker 1: impact the course of this race.

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Speaker 5: I think that is significantly less problematic, Crystal, because people

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Speaker 5: can at least judge that on.

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Speaker 4: Its own terms transparently.

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Speaker 5: I think it is far more problematic when you're a

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Speaker 5: representative and a puppet for somebody else's interests, and I

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Speaker 5: think that there's a big difference there. Right put money

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Speaker 5: for the race. So here's what I would do. One

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Speaker 5: thing I would say is, if I'm the nominee, as

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Speaker 5: I expect to be in the general election, I'll throw

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Speaker 5: out a pass to Joe Biden or whoever my opponent

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Speaker 5: is to catch remember, the left was the one that

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Speaker 5: preached Citizens United in twenty ten, wanted money out of politics.

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Speaker 5: I'll say this, we'll make a handshake deal that we

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Speaker 5: both shun super pac money. We're not going to show

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Speaker 5: up at events where a super PAC representative as a present.

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Speaker 1: You're not looking for any sort of legislative change that wall.

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Speaker 5: I'm going in order of what's actually achieving, because Citizens

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Speaker 5: United is a complicated holding, and this is complex terrain,

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Speaker 5: and I've spent years studying this. I share your I

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Speaker 5: share much of the left's ajita with the influence of

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Speaker 5: money in politics.

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Speaker 4: Read Woking carefully. That's what the book is about.

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Speaker 5: Actually, So that's the first thing I would do, and

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Speaker 5: I would make that deal with anybody else.

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Speaker 4: In this Republican primary.

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Speaker 5: The other thing I would say is there's a difference

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Speaker 5: between super PACs and packs. Right, So there are these

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Speaker 5: five H one C four entities that have I mean,

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Speaker 5: such a complicated, unnecessarily byzantine arrangement, but there are certain

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Speaker 5: rules that say, hey, at least there are certain kinds

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Speaker 5: of money and these other kinds of tortured legal creations

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Speaker 5: where it can't advocate for candidates specifically, but can advocate

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Speaker 5: for issues. I think that's actually a reasonable middle ground

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Speaker 5: to say that people still have their First Amendment protections

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Speaker 5: using their own money to advocate for issues or for

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Speaker 5: issues of public importance without actually throwing that money behind

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Speaker 5: a candidate alone. And so this is complicated, It butts

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Speaker 5: up against complex First Amendment jurisprudence.

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Speaker 4: But I think the easiest way to lead is through action.

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Speaker 5: And so I'll make a deal with anybody I'm running against,

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Speaker 5: and if they abide by it, I'll commit to do

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Speaker 5: the same. Shun the super pack game and revive actually

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Speaker 5: a race that is about one person, one vote, one person,

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Speaker 5: one voice.

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Speaker 4: That was the promise of the American experiment.

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Speaker 5: We fought a revolution to say that we the people

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Speaker 5: settle our differences through free speech and open debate in

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Speaker 5: the public square, where every person's voice and vote counts equally.

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Speaker 5: The Left used to be on board with that. I

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Speaker 5: hope they still are. I think we live in a

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Speaker 5: moment where Republicans can and should embrace this message too.

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Speaker 5: I'm leading the way on that, and I think that's

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Speaker 5: going to be good for our country if we get there.

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Speaker 2: You talk there about voting, and actually one of the

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Speaker 2: more controversial things that you've put forward is a proposition

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Speaker 2: that to be able to vote under the age of

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Speaker 2: twenty five, you would either have to serve in the

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Speaker 2: military or to pass a test. Why you know a

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Speaker 2: decent portion of that people are watching the show you do,

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Speaker 2: a lot of online shows, are actually below the age

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Speaker 2: of twenty five. What is the case to them to

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Speaker 2: deprive them of their right to vote under the US Constitution.

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Speaker 5: Let me, first of all, this would require a constitutional amendment,

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Speaker 5: So you're absolutely right that the current constitutional state of affairs,

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Speaker 5: this is not something that I'm talking about is a law.

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Speaker 5: Let me actually share with you, saga, this has been

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Speaker 5: distorted many times over what the heart of my proposal

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Speaker 5: actually is, and then build into that nothing you said

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Speaker 5: was inaccurate.

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Speaker 4: But let me get to the heart of the motive.

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Speaker 5: What I've said is every high school student who graduate

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Speaker 5: in this country should have to pass the same Civics

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Speaker 5: test that each of our parents, I'm going to presume

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Speaker 5: had to pass in order to become citizens of this country. Right,

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Speaker 5: every immigrant has to pass in order to become a

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Speaker 5: citizen of this country. I think I'll stand by and

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Speaker 5: wait for a good argument. I still haven't heard one

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Speaker 5: for why high school students in this country when they

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Speaker 5: turn eighteen should not have to know the same things

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Speaker 5: about the country that a naturalized citizen we demand them

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Speaker 5: to know as well. And so now let's talk about

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Speaker 5: actually a legal structure. We already have age eighteen to

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Speaker 5: twenty five young men in this country have to already register.

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Speaker 4: I did it.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure, selective service registration. On pain of criminal penalties.

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Speaker 5: You have to register for the draft. I've said that

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Speaker 5: I would actually decriminalize that. I don't think that's the

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Speaker 5: way we should do things in this country. But in

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Speaker 5: return for decriminalizing the selective service mandate for men in

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Speaker 5: the age of eighteen to twenty five, I've said we

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Speaker 5: need to instead tie civic privileges to civic duties, as

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Speaker 5: our founding fathers envisioned. We live in a constitutional republic.

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Speaker 5: That means something. It means our civic privileges come with

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Speaker 5: civic duties attached to them.

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Speaker 4: That's what our.

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Speaker 5: Founding fathers envisioned, and that's part of what I think

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Speaker 5: we need to revive. And so I've said that, yes,

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Speaker 5: I believe that at least when you're age eighteen to

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Speaker 5: twenty five, that same window where we have selective service

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Speaker 5: mandates today, you at least have to pass that same

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Speaker 5: civics test that immigrant has to pass or else tests

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Speaker 5: aren't for everybody at least serve the country in some

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Speaker 5: minimal way military or first respond to role.

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Speaker 4: And I'll tell you what I expect to happen. Voting

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Speaker 4: rates are very.

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Speaker 5: Low in kids, in young people among the ages of

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Speaker 5: eighteen to twenty five. I think they will skyrocket once

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Speaker 5: we actually make the act of voting means something, and

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Speaker 5: I think that's actually going to be an important part

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Speaker 5: of our civic revival in our nation.

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Speaker 3: Let me flip it around.

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Speaker 2: Then, there's been a lot of discussion around Joe Biden's

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Speaker 2: cognitive ability. Should there be then a maximum age to vote?

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Speaker 2: And when people do lose their cognitive ability, Like if

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Speaker 2: we're going to have some sort of tests in place

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Speaker 2: on the lower end, should we not have them in

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Speaker 2: place on the higher end as well.

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Speaker 5: So my view is this is not actually a vision

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Speaker 5: for just applying it to young people. This is a

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Speaker 5: vision of what I think should be a civic requirement

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Speaker 5: for really every citizen. But we have to start somewhere,

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Speaker 5: and so I don't believe in somebody who's sixty years

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Speaker 5: old taking away something they've already exercised for all their life.

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Speaker 5: But at some point, if we agree that this is

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Speaker 5: a good premise, that we want an educated citizen ry

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Speaker 5: that lives out at civic duties, feels that sense of

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Speaker 5: civic duty as they go to the ballot box and

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Speaker 5: live their life as citizens, then we're starting with a

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Speaker 5: clean slate that ages into it with people who age

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Speaker 5: into being citizens.

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Speaker 4: For me, that's the way I look at it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to be real with you, of Avik.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me like a way to get a

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Speaker 1: group of voters that don't tend to vote very Republican

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Speaker 1: out of the electorate. That's what it feels like to me,

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Speaker 1: of like a fancy You've articulated very well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's very like civic based ETCeteras. Are to use a

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Speaker 1: lot of good language around it, but it seems very

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Speaker 1: convenient that this group of voters is probably not going

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Speaker 1: to vote for you or Donald Trump in very large

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Speaker 1: numbers and are more likely to show up for Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: Christal.

442
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 5: Let me see if I can convince you of my motivations.

443
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 4: I understand and.

444
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 1: That's reasonable, that's but just for fun, just for fun,

445
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: let's give it, let's let's I enjoy these conversations.

446
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 4: So here's what I would say.

447
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 5: First of all, if that were the case, I wouldn't

448
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 5: say it now because I don't have an ability to

449
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 5: change that in the election that I'm actually running in.

450
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 5: Right to the contrary, I actually one of the things

451
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 5: that I'm seeing in this campaign is more than any

452
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 5: other candidate in either side, in either political party. We're

453
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 5: going to college campuses, We're confronting people with diverse views

454
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 5: across this country, including young people. Forty percent of the

455
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 5: donors to my campaign we have seventy thousand plus donors already,

456
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 5: forty percent of them are first time ever donors to

457
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 5: the GOP, and many of them are actually young. And

458
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 5: the reaction that I get when I go to college

459
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 5: campuses with this idea crystal is at first, yes, it

460
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 5: does make people perk.

461
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 4: Up a little bit.

462
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 5: But when we talk through the justification and talk through,

463
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 5: talk through the actual motive, I'm actually seeing something beautiful

464
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 5: we haven't seen in this country in a long time,

465
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 5: which is this.

466
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 4: Notion of persuasion.

467
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 5: Actually, we treat people as though they are animals that

468
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 5: were being counters and we say, well, you guys are

469
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 5: in the Democrat camp, you guys in the Republican camp.

470
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 5: You're in the Black voting block, you're in the Asian

471
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 5: voting block. Divide people up, vote bank politics. So there

472
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 5: were a bunch of animals that jump up to a

473
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 5: bone like a dog jump into a bone for its

474
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 5: treat No. I believe that we are citizens, and what

475
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,719
Speaker 5: distinguishes is as human beings from animals is that we

476
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 5: can engage in open persuasion and discourse.

477
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: And so let me ask you a little bit of people.

478
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 5: My motivations, but I could prove it to you. I

479
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 5: believe that this is going to be right for the country.

480
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: I'm like you, I'm looking at the data, looking at

481
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: which party that this would benefit. And you know that's

482
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: but I'm just one person. People can make their own decision.

483
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: But speaking of the discourse, you know one thing that

484
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. I've listened to a lot

485
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: of your interviews. You know, I think you've gotten a

486
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: lot of attraction online. You're coming up in the polls,

487
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 1: Like I think people really need to pay attention to

488
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying and when you talk about people who

489
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: are concerned with climate, you call them climatists, you call

490
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: them climate cultists. You know, let's just put some of

491
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 1: the these news stories up on the screen. Here. You've

492
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 1: got record high temperatures that are causing increasing death in Arizona.

493
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: You've got workers who are dying from heat exhaustion. You've

494
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: got people who are being choked by wildfire smoke from Canada.

495
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: You've got an entire state of Florida that's basically unensurable

496
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: at this point. And American people are living this reality

497
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: increasingly at this point, and an overwhelming majority of them,

498
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: some you know, two thirds, say yeah, this is a

499
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: concern for me. So do you have the sort of

500
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: contempt in your heart for them that comes out in

501
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: that language when you would describe them as climate cultists.

502
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 5: I have no contempt in my heart, Crystal. I have

503
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 5: deep sympathy for people who are hungry for purpose and

504
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 5: meaning and have relocated their desire for faith to the

505
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 5: faith in climate instead.

506
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 4: But why should But what's wrong?

507
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: What's we can talk? People are experiencing this in their

508
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: own lives right now.

509
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 5: So, Crystal, in any other context, if the people that

510
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 5: trust the science crowd were persuaded by lived experience of

511
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 5: individ jewels of something that's actually a macro phenomenon. You

512
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 5: would laugh them off the stages. A bunch of roobs

513
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 5: weren't data driven. So let's talk data.

514
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's talk about it. I've got I've got

515
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: some that I can put up on the screen. Good

516
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: for the next and then I hear from you, Good,

517
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: put the next pieces up on the screen. We've got

518
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: some record lows in terms of Antarctic sea ice extent.

519
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 1: We've got ocean temperatures that are smashing seasonal records. We

520
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: had just the hottest June on.

521
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 4: It might be helpful for me to lay out my views.

522
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 4: You're saying things I agree with, saying things I agree with.

523
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: Tell me what's tell me what I'm getting wrong here,

524
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: and why this is not something that people should be

525
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,239
Speaker 1: concerned about, and why they're in a cult if they

526
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: are concerned about it.

527
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 5: Sure, So let me lay out some hard facts, both

528
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 5: about my views and facts on the ground. Our global

529
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 5: surface temperature is going up, yes. Is that likely due

530
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 5: to man made causes?

531
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 4: Yes?

532
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 5: Is that an existential threat to humanity? There is no

533
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 5: evidence to support that To the contrary eight times, as

534
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 5: many people die of cold temperatures rather than warm ones.

535
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 5: The Earth today is more covered by green surface area

536
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 5: than it was even a century ago. Because carbon dioxide

537
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 5: is plant food, plants actually grow in slightly warmer climates.

538
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 5: The climate disaster related death rate is down by ninety

539
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 5: eight percent over the last century, directly attributable to more

540
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 5: abundant and plentiful access and use of fossil fuels. So

541
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 5: I want to be really clear about my view. This

542
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 5: is not a does climate change exist or not? It's

543
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 5: the wrong framing of the question. The question is what

544
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 5: impacts human prosperity, human flourishing in a world in which

545
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 5: there are net positive and net negative effects of climate

546
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 5: but also net positive and net negative effects of the

547
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 5: use of fossil fuels. I also find it to be

548
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 5: a mystery, and it's mystery. Maybe you can help me solve, Crystal.

549
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 5: Why is it that many of the people who are

550
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 5: the staunch opponents to carbon emissions are also among the

551
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 5: staunchest opponents to hydroelectric energy or to nuclear energy. I

552
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 5: think that that suggests there's something else going on. There's

553
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 5: lots of different standards for China. Let me see there's

554
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 5: something else going on here. That's my point about there's

555
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 5: a religious conviction that goes beyond the commitment to the facts.

556
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: Let me just say that even Greta Tunberg, who comes

557
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: in for a lot of criticism as a quote unquote

558
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: climate cultist, is now in favor of nuclear energy. I

559
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: agree with you on nuclear that should be more of

560
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: a push.

561
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 5: By the way, if you want to stick to Greta,

562
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 5: I actually respect credit for one thing. She's honest. She

563
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 5: says it's not just about the climate. It's about social justice.

564
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 5: It's about climate justice, it's about equity. So these are

565
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 5: things that she is actually honestly.

566
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: You're living. If you're living in a poor neighborhood in

567
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: this country, you're more likely to be affected by the

568
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: toxic plants and toxic toxic chemical.

569
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 5: Dis You're more likely to be affected by restraints on

570
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 5: fossil fuels, is actually what you're likely to be affected by.

571
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 5: I wonder people are dying because of lack of access

572
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 5: to fossil fuels.

573
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if you've followed though what's happening. And because

574
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: you know you're you're capitalists, your a successful business guy,

575
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: so you certainly understand the way that markets work. You

576
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: look at Florida, you look at Louisiana, you look at Texas, Colorado, California.

577
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: These are all places that insurance coming companies. Home insurance

578
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: companies are pulling out of because the risk of catastrophic weather,

579
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: extreme weather is so great now that it doesn't make

580
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: sense for them to ensure in these marketplaces. Florida, you know,

581
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: and you talk about the human impact, Florida is becoming

582
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: virtually uninsurable because of the lack of home insurance companies

583
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: that are willing to operate in this state. So I

584
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: don't know how you can look at the situation right

585
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: now and say that you know there aren't already extreme

586
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: costs being imposed on people, not to mention workers who

587
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: are falling out for meat exhaustion, et cetera.

588
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: So, Chris ll I don't take my facts on the

589
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 5: climate change debate from what the home insurance market is

590
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 5: actually doing. In many ways, that's distorted by the same

591
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 5: climate cult manifests through the ESG movement.

592
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 4: Because the shareholders of these.

593
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 5: Companies Black Rock, States, stred In, Vanguard are effectively requiring

594
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 5: them to behave that way.

595
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 4: Why are they doing it.

596
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 5: It's because Kalper's State of New York and large pension

597
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 5: funds have said they won't invest with the large asset

598
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: managers unless there's signatories of the Climate Action one hundred

599
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: plus network.

600
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: But you know, written books about this. We can go

601
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 4: into the depth as you want.

602
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, but you do know. I mean, I'm

603
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: an ESG thing. I have my own critique of ESG

604
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: that is greenwashing. But none of these companies carriages the

605
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: environment aliment or whatever there are. There are studies that

606
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: show that the funds and the companies that claim ESG

607
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: and they're all about it, et cetera, they're actually dirtier

608
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: than the other companies. So in a sense you've won

609
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: on that front. But Soccer has a question for I

610
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: don't want to monopolize all the time, and I know

611
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: that you have a limited amount of time for us

612
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: as well.

613
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: Actually, my last question for you, Vivek is on Mexico.

614
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: You've talked and been shared a lot of the critique

615
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: that we've had here on Ukraine about the military industrial

616
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: complex about pursuing things that are not of our strategic interest.

617
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: But you've talked on your website about using the military

618
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 2: to annihilate Mexican drug cartels. I know previously you had

619
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: at least rhetorically opened yourself.

620
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: Up to an invasion.

621
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: So I mean, what are you going to send America's

622
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: sons and daughters into Mexican territory? What military resources are

623
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 2: going to use? Are we going to declare war on Mexico?

624
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: How is this all going to work? No, We're not

625
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: going to declare war on Mexico.

626
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 5: My top objective is to get Mexico to take care

627
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 5: of its own problems. Sagar, there is a fundamental difference

628
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 5: between what's happening with the drug cartels in Ukraine. What's

629
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 5: happening in Ukraine does not affect the lives of Americans

630
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 5: here on American soil. What's happening with the Mexican drug

631
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 5: cartels in Mexico does. So that's just a fundamental difference.

632
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 5: But even against that backdrop, absolutely, I don't want to

633
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 5: declaring war on Mexico would be a bone headed idea.

634
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: So here's what I would do.

635
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: On your website, though, on your website you do say

636
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: use our military to annihilate Mexican drug cartels.

637
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 5: So what does that happen in the Mexican drug cartels

638
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 5: are as much of a threat to the sovereignty of

639
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 5: Mexico as they are to the United States. They're more

640
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 5: of a threat to the sovereignty of Mexico. So here's

641
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 5: what I would do. I've said that I would Here's

642
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 5: what I would commit to doing. Use our military to

643
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: secure our own southern border.

644
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: The wall has been insufficient.

645
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 5: Cartel financed tunnels built now underneath that wall.

646
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: Trucks can drive through them.

647
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 5: And then I would work with Mexico diplomatically to say

648
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 5: that listen up. For a tiny fraction of the amount

649
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 5: we've already spent in Ukraine as of this date, we

650
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 5: can help you solve your own problem and regain your sovereignty.

651
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 5: There's a presidential election in Mexico. I think it's an

652
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 5: important one in twenty twenty four as well. Thankfully AMLO

653
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 5: is going to be out Hopefully new leadership embraces not

654
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 5: the hugs not bullets strategy that he has.

655
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: I think that's been a mistake.

656
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 5: I want to actually help Mexico solve its own problem

657
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 5: because that will help us, but as a backstop, if

658
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 5: they don't solve the problem, then we're going to have

659
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 5: to solve our own problem, and that's the way I

660
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 5: expect this to in Mexico will solve its own problem.

661
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: Web question, what does that mean? Are we talking about

662
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: drone strikes on cartels and Mexica. Are we talking about

663
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: cruise missile A We're talking about boots on the ground.

664
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: If Mexico says.

665
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 5: We're not working, it means we have military on our

666
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 5: own border. And there are a series of steps we

667
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 5: can take. Turn off foreign aid of any kind to

668
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 5: Mexico or Central America until our border crisis is solved.

669
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 5: There's a series of steps to take, and I'm convinced

670
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 5: that we will never get to the place of actually

671
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: having to use war of any kind in Mexico. But

672
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 5: at the same time, we have to demonstrate our strength

673
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 5: to make sure that Mexico is taking care of its

674
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: problem in a way that Amelo is absolutely not doing

675
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 5: based on the pasta the Bible.

676
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: I just want to be I just want to get

677
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: a really clear answer. Is there any scenario under which

678
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: you would use the US military against Mexico's wishes to

679
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: go into their country and drop bombs, drone strike or whatever. Cartels.

680
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: I will not rule you take that. We would have

681
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 4: rull out.

682
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 5: That we have to use that we may treat Mexican

683
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 5: drug cartels in the way we treated ISIS as terrorists

684
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 5: in another country that are posing real risk to Americans.

685
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 5: And the risk to America is even greater from the

686
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 5: Mexican drug cartels than it was from ISIS.

687
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 4: That's what I'll say.

688
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Vic, we got to get you in

689
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: the studio for a little bit longer next time.

690
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: I know you got to go.

691
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I'm really grateful for the exchange.

692
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 5: We also appreciate I have a lot of fun with

693
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 5: you guys, So always, thank you.

694
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: See you next time. We really appreciate it, and we

695
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: will see you guys later.

696
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: Thanks.

697
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: Very excited to be joined now in the studio by

698
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: tech executive and North Dakota governor and up presidential contender

699
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: Doug Bergham. Great to see you, sir.

700
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 6: Great to be with you, Crystal.

701
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, let us know why are you running

702
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: for president? Why do you think you are better than

703
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: the guy who's the front runner right now, Donald Trump.

704
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, we're running against Joe Biden.

705
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: And I you got to get there first.

706
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely do. Everybody's got to get there we're

707
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 6: all we're all running the same race, but I'd say,

708
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 6: you know, we're we know that we have an opportunity

709
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 6: to improve every American life and we can unleash the

710
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 6: best of America. And we can do that by focusing

711
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 6: on one hundred and eighty to return on the economy,

712
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 6: on energy, and national security.

713
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: So, Governor, you qualify for the debate stage this morning.

714
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: You're one of the This is the first interview that

715
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: you've given us. We're very excited about it. You did

716
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: get there in an interesting way. You're offering people twenty

717
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: dollars I think for every one dollar that they were

718
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: donating campaign. Considering your personal wealth, are you trying to

719
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: buy or bay on the debate stage. Just explain that

720
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: to people about how exactly that works.

721
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 6: Well, no, that's actually actually I'm an entrepreneur and I

722
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 6: was actually trying to save money. Because if you go

723
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 6: to an online firm today and say, hey, can you

724
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 6: help us build an online program? Nobody knows us. They'll say, sure,

725
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 6: we'll put it together an online program, and the cost

726
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 6: is about one hundred dollars per acquisition for customers. So

727
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 6: I'm like, I said, that's nuts. You know how would

728
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 6: you do that more inexpensively? And if you were, if

729
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 6: the two of you were launching an online retail business

730
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 6: and nobody knew you, you would start off by saying, hey,

731
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 6: let's offer a really good product. We'll offer it as

732
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 6: a loss leader to get people to come to our

733
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 6: site and if they like what they see, then maybe

734
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 6: they'll buy other stuff. And of course, you know, we

735
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 6: offer the card to help give people relief from Biden's inflation.

736
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 6: Most people that are coming, some don't want the card,

737
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 6: some like what they see and they give a lot more.

738
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 6: And again because of the buzz that it created, that

739
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 6: got us a bunch of earned media. So we've got

740
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 6: free national attention and we blew through that and we

741
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 6: passed the forty thousand, will pass fifty thousand shortly, and

742
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 6: I think it gives a chance for people. So if

743
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 6: anybody still, we still got some cards to give away.

744
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 6: If enbody wants to learn more about our campaign, Doug

745
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 6: burgham dot com, come check it out.

746
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: I understand it, as you know, as a businessman, I

747
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: understand the logic behind it, but it does feel a

748
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: little gross to basically bribe people to give you a

749
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: dollar so that you can get on the stage.

750
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 6: Well, I don't think it's riving. You think of these

751
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 6: goofy rules, these clubhouse rules. If you've held national office,

752
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 6: if you've been a pundit on a national cable channel,

753
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 6: if you've been in DC for decades, all of those things,

754
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 6: and you've got national name recognition, it's pretty easy if

755
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 6: you're if you're from a.

756
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: State that's gout of them having such an easy time,

757
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: you know.

758
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 6: Or if you're from if you're from a state that's

759
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 6: got twenty million people. But I mean these rules are

760
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 6: really stacked against people from that. You know, we're we

761
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 6: have fresh ideas, you know, come from from unexpected places

762
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 6: like small towns in small you know, small states, and

763
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 6: good ideas can happen anywhere in America. We know this.

764
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 6: I mean we you know, we built a business on

765
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 6: taking kids from small towns, and we built a world

766
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 6: class business doing that. So I mean, I feel like

767
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 6: this is a and to get there in seven weeks.

768
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 6: There's something else going on. Because we had something where

769
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 6: we had a group called the Sadbusters. They got together

770
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 6: once a week and these were friends from high school,

771
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 6: friends from the college, friends from the first startups. I

772
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 6: was involved in and they all said, Hey, we want

773
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 6: to see Doug on the debate stage. Let's get let's

774
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 6: talk to everybody on our holiday card list, let's talk

775
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 6: to all of our co workers. And so those guys

776
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 6: had the whole momentum going before this whole thing, and

777
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 6: so there's a lot of ground support coming.

778
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: I'm for competition, I'm for a debate, and I think

779
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: it's great. Do you think the President Trump should show

780
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: about the debate now that you're going to be on

781
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: the stage there.

782
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 6: Well, you guys are pundits, and I think there's a

783
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 6: whole industry about what the president former president should do.

784
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 6: And every candidate's got.

785
00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 3: To run around.

786
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: We want them there everybody.

787
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, every candidate's got to do their own thing. But

788
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 6: I mean, we're excited to be on the debate stage

789
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 6: and we're looking forward to talking to Americans about things

790
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 6: that affect them, like the economy, like energy and national security.

791
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: So implicitly, by running, it's not just about Trump, it's

792
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: about all the other candidates in this race.

793
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: You jumped in when some of these people were declared.

794
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: What distinguishes you from the other governors who also taut

795
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: executive experience? You reference Governor Ron DeSantis, former governor Nikki Haley.

796
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 3: Why are you the governor to pick over them?

797
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 6: Well, I think the key differentiator here. First of all,

798
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 6: governors make great presidents, we know that. But the key

799
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 6: differentiator is my long business experience and been successful but

800
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 6: at all levels. I mean starting out as a kid,

801
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 6: grown up in a small town in North Dakota, three

802
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 6: hundred people. And then my dad passed away when I

803
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 6: was a freshman in high school, which was tough. He

804
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 6: was a World War two Navy vet. Got to see

805
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 6: my mom go back to work widow three kids, you know,

806
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 6: make an ends meet. And then every job I had

807
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 6: growing up, working on the farm, working on the ranch,

808
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 6: working at the grain elevator, and then actually working as

809
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 6: a chimney sweep to help pay my way through college.

810
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 6: I mean, these are all jobs that you take a

811
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 6: shower at the end of the day, not at the

812
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 6: beginning of the day. So I understand what working America

813
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 6: is going through when they're facing inflation in this environment.

814
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 6: And then I had an opportunity. I saw I saw

815
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 6: an Apple Tude computer with VisiCalc the first spreadsheet. I'm like, wow,

816
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 6: that's going to change the world. Literally, I took this

817
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 6: small amount of farm ground I got from my dad

818
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 6: mortgage that, which is something you never do when your

819
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 6: grandparents have homesteaded and paid for the arm. You don't

820
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 6: take debt out on land. But that became the seed

821
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 6: capital for great planes. And we took that from ten

822
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 6: people to two thousand. We had people working twelve hundred

823
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 6: and Fargo four hundred rest in North America, four hundred

824
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 6: rest of the world. We had customer one hundred. Yeah,

825
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 6: but we did that with where people said you couldn't

826
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 6: do it.

827
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 3: So and then, so let.

828
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Me ask you. I can't help, but notice what I asked,

829
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: how are you different from President Trump? You kind of

830
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: kind of pushed that one to the side, which listaid,

831
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: you're doing your thing. I understand that it's uncomfortable to

832
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: criticize him because he's still popular among the Republican base,

833
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: even as you want to defeed him. So let me

834
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: ask you about a specific issue, which is our approach

835
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: to the Ukraine War. You know, do you think that

836
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: the way that Biden has approached it is more or

837
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: less the right approach President Trump? Former President Trump has

838
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: said he would get in there and negotiate end this

839
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: conflict in twenty four hours. Do you think you could

840
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: do that? Do you think that you know, how do

841
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: you view that conflict and are you more on the

842
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: side of President Trump's approach or you more on the

843
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: side of Joe Biden's approach.

844
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 6: Well, Chris, I'll just tell you that we wouldn't even

845
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 6: be in this situation if not for Biden's energy policies,

846
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 6: because if we hadn't allowed all of our allies in

847
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 6: Western Europe to come be completely dependent on Russian energy,

848
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 6: then there's no way that Putin says I'm invading the Ukraine.

849
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 6: But it is what it is here now, we're here now.

850
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 6: But again, this is something where when we talk about

851
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 6: energy policy, it's one sentence, sell energy to our friends

852
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 6: and allies, stop buying it from our adversaries. And you

853
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 6: can't take the Ukraine and separate that from our biggest

854
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 6: challenge just China. China is the largest importer of oil

855
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 6: and gas in the world, ten million barrels of oil

856
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 6: a day. And we've had Secretary Blinking Janet Yellen, Envoy

857
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 6: carry all there. I don't know that any of them

858
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 6: talked about energy when they're talking about China. This is

859
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 6: the tool that we have.

860
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: On the question of Ukraine, though, continue support. Do you

861
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: support let me ask you a specific one. Do you

862
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: support the shipment of cluster bombs to Ukraine? Would you

863
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: have voted in favor or pushed for all of the

864
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: aid packages that we have sent, Yes or no?

865
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 6: Well, we need more accountability on the dollars we're scenting,

866
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 6: but there's no.

867
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Option we cannot And would you is there an upper

868
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: limit to the level of support that you would give

869
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: to them? And how would you pursue peace?

870
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 6: In the end, beating Putin in Europe is cheaper than

871
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 6: World War Three, It's cheaper than NATO involvement. The most

872
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 6: fiscally conservative thing we can do is win and beat Putin.

873
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 6: Win for Putin is a win for China. And again

874
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 6: our belated energy policy, we're like, oh, after Biden the

875
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 6: withdrawal from Afghanistan and then kind of green lighting Putin's

876
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 6: invasion by saying, well, hey, if it's an incursion, then

877
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 6: maybe we won't do anything. Those are all huge diplomatic

878
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 6: signals that say, hey, come on in, Well, now we're

879
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 6: in the spot where belated we'll go. Hey, we're going

880
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 6: to put on sanctions on Russian oil and gas. Well,

881
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 6: guess what, they're still selling oil and gas. You put

882
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 6: sanctions on a commody like soybeans or oil and on

883
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 6: global market, guess what happens? They sell it to somebody

884
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 6: else who's buying it China. I just set China largely.

885
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 6: Would you lift the sanctions, Well, it doesn't make any

886
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 6: It doesn't make any sense. You know, China, our adversaries

887
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 6: getting oil and gas at twenty percent off. I mean

888
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 6: a farmer and I would like to be playing twenty

889
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 6: percent off their diesel tomorrow, but they're not. So these

890
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 6: the sanctions, you know, maybe the feel good, but then

891
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,479
Speaker 6: those dollars they're buying oil from Russia using Chinese want.

892
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 6: We are undermining the US dollar because for the first

893
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 6: time in history, petro transactions are occurring, not in the

894
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 6: US dollar.

895
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 3: It's a producing position.

896
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: What we're hearing here it's about more military or you

897
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: want a military or t Ukraine, but not sanctions.

898
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: So then you also referenced Native And I'm.

899
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 6: Not saying we're not sanctions. I'm saying, don't critical of.

900
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: Our current sanctions regime.

901
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 6: I think that's fair sanctioning ucondity, sanctioned US soybeans and

902
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 6: then you buy them from Brazilian.

903
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: Actually, we have no disagreement here. Literally whatsoever a question here?

904
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: You referenced World War three NATO membership, NATO membership for Ukraine,

905
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: Yes or no?

906
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: What do you think?

907
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 6: Well, it certainly should come as a time because I mean,

908
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 6: the whole point of NATO is that everybody's unified in

909
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 6: preventing Russian aggression in Eastern Europe, and the only person

910
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 6: that's fighting and losing lives right now is Ukraine. I

911
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 6: mean they should be getting a medal from NATO as

912
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 6: opposed to, Hey, we may may or may not let

913
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 6: you join.

914
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: So at their most recent summit, would you have given

915
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: an extended them membership even though there's an active war

916
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: zone going on.

917
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 6: It's not at this time, I would say, hey.

918
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: But you want to you think there should be a

919
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: pathway for.

920
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 6: They're doing the job of NATO. That's what they're doing

921
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 6: what NATO was set up to do.

922
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: Well, Well, it's a collective defense agreement, not necessarily an

923
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: aggressive agreement. So let's say that this thing wraps up,

924
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: there's a peace agreement and all that. Why should Man

925
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: America's Article five protection nuclear umbrella be extended to let's

926
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: say they've done boss region of Ukraine. Why is that

927
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 2: going to nuclear war over for American security?

928
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 6: Well, I think again, you have to understand, Russia is

929
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 6: not a country the way we might think of countries.

930
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 6: I mean, everybody understands this is a series of mob bosses.

931
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 6: I mean colin oligarchs. But and then we saw this

932
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 6: with progosion. Who you know, it wasn't just that, Hey

933
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 6: we've got you know, mercenary soldiers coming out of Russian jails,

934
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 6: you know, fighting in the Ukraine. I mean there are

935
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 6: sixty five shell companies under what they're doing in the

936
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 6: Wagner group, and so you know they're they're running gold

937
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 6: mines in the Central African Republic. I mean when they

938
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 6: were when they were quote helping out in Syria, they

939
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 6: took over twenty five percent of Serius oil production. You

940
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 6: know what's Putin's networth seventy billion. I mean, this is

941
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 6: just this is just a series of mob bosses all

942
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 6: working together. It's not a country the way we think

943
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 6: about it. And you're asking like really good questions about

944
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 6: how would you negotiate with another country, But we're actually

945
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 6: these are criminal enterprises that are operating and and sort

946
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 6: of somehow the idea that we're going to.

947
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, but they're mobs, but they got nukes. I mean,

948
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 3: we've had a long time listen.

949
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like the Soviet Union was the

950
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: easiest system to negotiate with.

951
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: We figured it out.

952
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: It was actually, frankly, even more barbaric, you know, in

953
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: many respects and ways they treated each other. So like

954
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: you are going to have to negotiate, you know, Shishiping.

955
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got his people get killed every once

956
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: in a while or disappear as president. You would be

957
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: put in that position regardless whether you like the system

958
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: or not.

959
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: So what do you respect?

960
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: I mean, are you saying that you wouldn't respect them

961
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: because their mob bosses? You wouldn't be able to talk

962
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: to them. Like what's the diplomatic overture or is the end.

963
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: Goal to push out that regime optic altogether?

964
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 6: Well, I think we have to just focus on the

965
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 6: American objectives. Obviously we need to do that, but we

966
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 6: have to be smart about it. We have to have

967
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 6: a full range of both military and economic statecraft that

968
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 6: we're going and right now we're not applying either of

969
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 6: those very effectively. And I and I think again, we're

970
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 6: you know, we're in a cold war with China today,

971
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 6: but it's much more complicated. It's not just about build

972
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 6: up our military and then have a strong economy. I mean,

973
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 6: you know, Reagan provided a good model of peace through strength,

974
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 6: but our economy, the Russian economy in nineteen eighty nine

975
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 6: when they collapsed, was quite small. I mean, it was

976
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 6: smaller than some of our US state. Yes, and we

977
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 6: weren't completely interconnected. Now we have China the second largest

978
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 6: economy in the world, and art as the number one economy.

979
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 6: Ours is completely intertwined. They're completely with each other. And

980
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 6: so it's not just you know, let's you know, draw

981
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 6: a line and then there's a set of a trading

982
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 6: block that's all with China and a trading block with

983
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 6: it's all with us and its allies. That doesn't work,

984
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 6: I mean, that would that would There has to be

985
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 6: a path forward for our little planet where everybody prospers

986
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 6: better when you've got the ability to talk to each

987
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 6: other instead of about each other.

988
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: Or sure no one, no one here is going to

989
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: deny it something extraordinarily complex and nuanced situation. Just to

990
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: put a pin on this, and we want to get

991
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: some economic questions and I know you have a short

992
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: about five more minutes that you have with us. Do

993
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: you support I mean, would you be pushing for regime

994
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: change in Russia so that you would have someone that

995
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: you felt like you could work with more effectively.

996
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 6: I don't think you have to push for it. I

997
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 6: mean we've got uh, we've got economics and we've got

998
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 6: actuarial tables on our side. I mean, there will be

999
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 6: there will be a regime change, and whether I don't

1000
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 6: know that this is something. I mean, America doesn't have

1001
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 6: a great track record on trying to drive regime changes

1002
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 6: in other countries, but we have to be we have

1003
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 6: to be fully prepared and not know what that regime

1004
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 6: change is going to be. And that regime change, I

1005
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 6: mean we saw that there was an attempt at a

1006
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 6: regime change with progosion, and that certainly weakened the you know,

1007
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 6: between the different mob bosses. There's certainly different a power

1008
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 6: structure today than there was a month ago. And who knows,

1009
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 6: maybe it'll happen for us.

1010
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: So let's do a little bit of economics. Lightning rounds

1011
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: my sense from you know, watching you speak reading your

1012
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: website as you're kind of a traditional economic conservative. So

1013
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: let me ask you on a number of issues at

1014
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: soccer and I can go back and forth here. So

1015
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: on the Social Security Program, do you think it should

1016
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: be cut? Do you think it should be left alone,

1017
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: or do you think it should be increased?

1018
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 6: North Dakota, this year we were able to successfully, after

1019
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 6: thirty years of debate, close the defined benefit pension plan

1020
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 6: for state employees and at the same time protect every

1021
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 6: employee that's in it. The advances that are coming on

1022
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 6: genomic medicine, I mean, there's going to be entire disease

1023
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 6: classes that can eliminate the next ten or fifteen years.

1024
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 6: I think every actuarial table in America is off.

1025
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: So just cut, keep it the way it is, or increase.

1026
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: And in terms of cuts, what I'm reading into what

1027
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: you're saying is for people who are in it, they're

1028
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: going to be fine. But what about younger Americans? What

1029
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: would you say to them?

1030
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 6: Well, your question suggests that those are only the three choices,

1031
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 6: and I think what we have to do where we've

1032
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 6: made a commitment to Americans, we have to protect that.

1033
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 6: If we've made a commitment, you're in social Security. We

1034
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 6: have to protect that, but we also can't bankrupt America

1035
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 6: at the same time. On the other side, you have

1036
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 6: to figure out a way to be smart about doing it.

1037
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 6: And part of that has got to be economic growth,

1038
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 6: because if we don't have our economy.

1039
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 1: Young Americans could potentially sea cuts.

1040
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: Right, So if we paid in the system, I'm thirty one, Yeah,

1041
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: I guess I haven't paid in the system that long.

1042
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: I mean my eye on the chopping block.

1043
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: Like under your kind of analysis here, presumably I would

1044
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: benefit from the genomic you as.

1045
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 6: A thirty one year old. As a thirty one year old,

1046
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 6: well you're going to be living to be one hundred.

1047
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 4: But hopefully.

1048
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean I want to feel, oh yeah.

1049
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 6: Your youngsters are going to live that long. But I mean,

1050
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 6: do you expect that you're you're going to see a paycheck?

1051
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1052
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 6: I mean, depending on it.

1053
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: Since the government has made that commitment, the government should

1054
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: fulfill that pay taxes. I also know what Social Security

1055
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: has meant for old age poverty. I also know that

1056
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: it's one of the most popular social programs in the

1057
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: history of the country. So the American people are certainly

1058
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: on the side of let's figure out how to keep

1059
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: benefits the way they are.

1060
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 6: Yes, and if you've got both parties agreeing that you

1061
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 6: can't touch it and it's financially and actually completely unsound.

1062
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: Well you can always lift the cap. And that would

1063
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: very much cheat you.

1064
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 6: Guys are saying. You guys are saying, we have something

1065
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 6: that's financially President.

1066
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: We're trying to get you nailed down on what you think.

1067
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 6: But you're saying that we shouldn't fix things that are broken.

1068
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 6: Is that what you're saying.

1069
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think what we're advocating, or what we're trying

1070
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: to advocate for, is a vast majority of even Republican seniors.

1071
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 2: You know, hands off my Medicare was a huge part

1072
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: of the Tea Party movement back in twenty ten.

1073
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 3: Same with Social Security.

1074
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 2: A lot of these seniors and even people who are

1075
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: forties fifties coming into the system feel as if that

1076
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: their future is uncertain. So I mean, at that very

1077
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: basic level, I speak to them, to those people that

1078
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: are like, Hey, I'm afraid.

1079
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 3: Are you going to take my money away?

1080
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: Like I barely am able to make my mortgage right

1081
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 2: now with inflation, with freaking home insurance and all this stuff.

1082
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: I've got a fixed income, you know, I think what

1083
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: was it fifty something percent of these seniors relying entire

1084
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: land social security. Just speak to the concern that those

1085
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: people have right now, and also the people like us

1086
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: who are like looking at the system and saying, hey,

1087
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 2: maybe you know, let's say, haven't done so well in life,

1088
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: like that's at least one thing that you can rely

1089
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: on whenever you get old.

1090
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 6: And I think that's why we say, at all costs,

1091
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 6: you have to protect that system for those people, the

1092
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 6: ones that you're talking about, has to be protected. Social Security, Medicaid,

1093
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 6: We've got to protect that. But the if we have

1094
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 6: we have that there, and we still have to as

1095
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 6: a country, we have to say, okay, we're protecting that,

1096
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 6: but does that preclude us from actually having a discussion

1097
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 6: across the country saying how do we do things that

1098
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 6: actually are financially viable for future generations.

1099
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: I just I don't know what that means. So be

1100
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: a little more specific, because that's I feel like you're

1101
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: you know, you're not giving us a direct answer. It's

1102
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: part of what you would be looking at for people

1103
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: who aren't in the program yet, reducing the benefits or

1104
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: would you be looking more towards the side of Okay,

1105
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: how do we bring in more revenue? Because I'll tell you,

1106
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people look at, you know,

1107
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: all the money that we're spending in the Ukraine War,

1108
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: and it's like, there's always money for the Pentagon, there's

1109
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: always money for the defense industry, there's always money for

1110
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: the Ukraine War. But there's this constant fixation on how

1111
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: do we peel back the pennies that are given to

1112
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: ordinary Americans.

1113
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 6: Well, you know, we're spending two trillion on complete folly around,

1114
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 6: you know, forcing an ideology around an energy policy. You know,

1115
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 6: we're going to say we're going to subsidize five hundred

1116
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 6: thousand and EV charging stations, We're going to subsidize people

1117
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 6: buying expensive EV cars, and we're going to buy batteries

1118
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 6: from who China because China controls eighty five percent of

1119
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 6: all the rare earth minerals in the world, And so

1120
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 6: we're just trading opek for something.

1121
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 1: Are we going to use that money for social security?

1122
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 6: Well, it certainly would be a better use because again,

1123
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 6: and you know, we figured out in this nation through markets,

1124
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 6: you know, how to you know, how to provide transportation

1125
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 6: without saying and if you want to have five hundred

1126
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 6: thousand EV charging stations and you can't get a permit

1127
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 6: to build a transmission line, and at the same time

1128
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 6: we're trying to shut down all the baseload in this country,

1129
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 6: you'd need five times and transmission lines to run those things.

1130
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 6: So the policies that were literally spending trillions on don't

1131
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 6: make any sense economically, physics, any of that.

1132
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about scary, but well we are.

1133
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: But I mean that would you're saying where the dollars

1134
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 2: saying some of those dollars would be all.

1135
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 6: Kinds of dollars. It would be freed up just to

1136
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 6: fix the thing that really matter, to take care of of.

1137
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: No cuts to social scary for young people? Is that? Yes?

1138
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 6: Well you could say yes, no cuts for young people

1139
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 6: as a politician and then guess what forty or fifty

1140
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 6: years from now, where's the money coming?

1141
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: But you're running for president. People want to know, you know,

1142
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: what do you think on this issue?

1143
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: What would you do?

1144
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 6: I think I'm honest about the fact that the thing

1145
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 6: is not actualarily sound, and so we be on the table.

1146
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 6: In fact, no, we have to protect everybody that's in

1147
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 6: the program right now. Then how do you solve a

1148
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 6: problem when there's not enough money to pay for it?

1149
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 6: You have to have growth, and part of the way

1150
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 6: you have growth is you have you get rid of

1151
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 6: the red tape. You have innovation, not regulation. You have

1152
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 6: an energy policy that allows our economy to sprint, not

1153
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 6: not just crawl or fail, and then we stop doing

1154
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 6: things that are supporting China, like our energy policy is.

1155
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: A huge win for your teams telling us that you

1156
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 3: have to go.

1157
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: So you've done very well in your life, do you

1158
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: think that you pay too high, too low, or just

1159
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 2: about the right in terms of taxes?

1160
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 3: And for people who have also done very well.

1161
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 6: Well in North Dakota, we're working to eliminate income taxes

1162
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 6: because you want to have an incentive.

1163
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: Well on the federal system.

1164
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 2: So you're running for president, So how do you think

1165
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: the federal tax regime treats you know, your people of.

1166
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: Your net worth and higher.

1167
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who even publicans really are

1168
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 2: concerned about that.

1169
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 3: I'm just curious.

1170
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: You know, we very rarely get to speak to somebody

1171
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 2: like you use both high networth individual and a politician.

1172
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: So how do you look at the current tax regime federally,

1173
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 2: of which you would be in charge of.

1174
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 6: Well, one of the things that I love about one

1175
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 6: of the few places government does not provide competition. One

1176
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 6: of the few places it does provide competition is at

1177
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 6: the state level, where different states can have a state

1178
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 6: with less regulation and lower taxes, and guess what, it

1179
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 6: attracts talent and capital to come to those locations. And

1180
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 6: everybody asked these questions about tax policy, like, there's not

1181
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 6: movement of talent. We should be trying to attract all

1182
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 6: the talent in the world to come to America. This

1183
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 6: is the land of opportunity. We should be creating a

1184
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 6: place where capital and talent want to come to our country,

1185
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 6: as opposed to we drive it away. And then everybody

1186
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 6: assumes I mean, it's like if you have a bad product,

1187
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 6: then you're in business. You have a bad product and say, hey,

1188
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 6: we're losing money. What should we do. Let's raise price

1189
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 6: on our product. Well, then you go out of business

1190
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 6: because people aren't paying your product.

1191
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: Think we should have lower taxes so more rich people

1192
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: from other countries should move here.

1193
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 6: It's not about rich people. Okay, we have income. Years

1194
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 6: I started out with I start out with basically nothing.

1195
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 6: I mean, part of income mobility up is part of

1196
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 6: the that's part of the American dream. And this idea

1197
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 6: that there's a static class. You know that somehow it's

1198
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 6: not paying their share. I mean, you know that.

1199
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: Is increasingly the case though. I mean, if you look.

1200
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 6: At the tax paying one hundred and twenty eight thousand

1201
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 6: in California, one hundred twenty eight thousands.

1202
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: Very wealthy pay as opposed to your average middle class person,

1203
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: the very wealthy, as a percentage of their income, pay

1204
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: far less.

1205
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's a percentage of their income. One percent

1206
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 6: of California is pay fifty percent of their taxes and

1207
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 6: a high taxer age.

1208
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: Do you think are they not say that to the

1209
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: one federal level? Do you think at the federal level

1210
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: that the tax regime is too hard on the rich

1211
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: or to be lowered further so we could attract whoever

1212
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: it is you want to attract to the country. Is

1213
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: that is that the policy?

1214
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 6: I think you guys with this class warfare thing rich poor,

1215
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 6: like it's like it's like no, no, but it's like no,

1216
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 6: you're not. You're trying to You're trying to frame it

1217
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 6: in some kind of ideology about some people aren't paying

1218
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 6: enough and whatever.

1219
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: We're no, we're just trying to ask you a question. Aus'

1220
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: running for president, and you're not answering the question. That's

1221
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: all we're trying to do.

1222
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 6: I think I'm answering the question. I answered the question

1223
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 6: the way it is.

1224
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: Would you change it? Do you think it's too too

1225
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: hard on the reds to you know, the top income bracket.

1226
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: If you don't want to call them the rits, just

1227
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: tell us what your tax policy would be.

1228
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 6: We don't. All the programs you guys are talking about

1229
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 6: are paid for with borrowed money, and that borrowed money

1230
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 6: comes from foreign countries that buy our bonds. And so

1231
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 6: we need capital flow to the United States for us

1232
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 6: to be competitive, and we want to have a regulatory

1233
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 6: and tax regime where capital flows to our country that

1234
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 6: ensures prosperity for everybody. I think when you've got less regulation,

1235
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 6: lower taxes than capital and talent flows in that direction,

1236
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 6: and that grows the economy, and then guess what, then

1237
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 6: everybody has an opportunity to prosper We're not in a stabut.

1238
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: We appreciate your time, You appreciate the back and thank you.

1239
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 3: Great, we appreciate you.

1240
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, fun to be with all of you and

1241
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 6: happy to keep the dialogue. But you guys are at

1242
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 6: least talking about you know, not just in sound bites.

1243
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 6: We got to talk about real issues. Yeah, agree, politics,

1244
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 6: there's real policy changes where if we make the right

1245
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 6: policy change in the executive branch. I'm an operating guy.

1246
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 6: All I've ever done is I will never be a senator.

1247
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 6: I will never be a congressman. I'm not a politician.

1248
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 6: I know how to run things. I know how to

1249
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 6: take cost out. You know, ten to twenty percent of

1250
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 6: every job in government today is some soul sucking, mindless,

1251
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 6: repetitive thing that brings no value to the person doing

1252
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 6: it and no value to the citizens. If it's ten

1253
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 6: or twenty percent, that could be four hundred thousand federal employees.

1254
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 6: It's not four hundred thousand individuals. It's ten to twenty

1255
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 6: percent of two million jobs. Yeah, it's not adding value?

1256
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 6: Can we have it? And you'd say, how are we

1257
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 6: going to pay for solid security? Well, one way you

1258
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 6: do for that is you lower the cost of federal government.

1259
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 6: I believe in states rights. We need to we need

1260
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 6: to reduce the size of the federal government by actually

1261
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 6: following the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment says that the states,

1262
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 6: you know, created the federal government, not the other way around.

1263
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 6: And the federal government and the president have a narrow

1264
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 6: job description. It's not like do everything for everybody. It's

1265
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 6: that's reserved to the states, Comma or for the people,

1266
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 6: which is some of these things.

1267
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 1: Going to kill us the freedom.

1268
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 6: But I'm still there is a path forward to be

1269
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 6: able to do what you want to do, which is

1270
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 6: have secure benefits for our seniors and those are needs,

1271
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 6: and have a prosperous economy. These are not. There is

1272
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 6: a world of abundance out there, and we can create

1273
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 6: wealth in this country for everybody if it happens, particularly

1274
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 6: with the advancements that are coming in technology. We can

1275
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 6: do that. But everybody asks, like all the questions that

1276
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 6: everybody asks in all these shows, it's like it's a

1277
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 6: fixed income and it's either we got to give it

1278
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 6: to them or take it away from those guys. That's

1279
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 6: not the way it works. We have grown our economy

1280
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 6: and will continue to grow economy. If we understand how

1281
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 6: economies work, we can lift the boat for everybody.

1282
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: Congratulations I'm getting on the debate stage. We're looking forward

1283
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: to hearing you make the case to the American people. I

1284
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: know they're going to find a lot of what you

1285
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: have to say compellings, so thank.

1286
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: You for those shows. We will give you the full

1287
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: time to actually lay out your views. Yeah, there you go,

1288
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: gradulates to the internet. I guess you played a role

1289
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 2: a little bit and making sure that we can shows

1290
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:54,959
Speaker 2: like this could exist.

1291
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: So we appreciate your time, sir, Thank.

1292
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 6: You great well, thank you both for having me on.

1293
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely pleasure.