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Speaker 1: Why from our nations this budget thing is going to

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Speaker 1: do nothing the spaceports. I still think it's interesting President

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Speaker 1: Trump not playing his cards yet Headlines Policy and Politics,

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Speaker 1: alighting to Sound with Kevin's really the insiders, the influencers,

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Speaker 1: the insides. I would rather see a congressional solution. It's

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Speaker 1: part of my DNA. The Senate map in looks a

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Speaker 1: lot different than it looked in. You really have a

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Speaker 1: divide within Team Trump. The president has to do exactly

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Speaker 1: what people send him here to do, which is to

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Speaker 1: get it done. He's Sound on with Kevin's Really on

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Speaker 1: Bloombern one and m h D two Boltemore, What a

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Speaker 1: day in Washington. President Trump just within the last two

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Speaker 1: hours taking questions from reporters, and he says that he

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Speaker 1: would rather talk about trade and infrastructure, but Democrats need

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Speaker 1: to stop investigating and stop the impeachment chatter. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about all of that, plus dissecting what all

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Speaker 1: of this political the or and back and forth means

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Speaker 1: for the ongoing US China trade talks. Larry Cutler was

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Speaker 1: in the was at the White House today. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about what he had to say about this as well. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the situation with Iran, the number of troops that the

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Speaker 1: US has an Iran, and whether or not they're going

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Speaker 1: to in Greece. We have an all star panel all

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Speaker 1: with us for the hour. But before we get to

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Speaker 1: all of that, what a day. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: just talking about that crazy storm that just whipped through Washington.

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Speaker 1: President Trump taking questions from reporters inside of the White House.

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Speaker 1: He was flanked by farmers behind him, the President doubling

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Speaker 1: down that he is going to be fighting for farmers

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Speaker 1: as these US China trade talks continue. This sixteen billion

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Speaker 1: dollars worth of tariffs have been targeted to farmers or

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Speaker 1: I apologize the President announcing sixteen billion in aid for

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Speaker 1: the farmers after the Chinese have added terror on US farmers.

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Speaker 1: And that's a political implication. The Chinese clearly trying to

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Speaker 1: make that calculation. Try to hit the President where it

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Speaker 1: hurts with me in studio, Miranda Green. She is a

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Speaker 1: congressional reporter for The Hill. Jack Fitzpatrick is a Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: government congressional reporter. To all Stars insiders who understand the

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Speaker 1: policy and the politics of this. Miranda, I'll start with you.

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Speaker 1: The President can he get away with a farmer baillout.

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Speaker 1: Do farmers want a bill out or do they want

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Speaker 1: just to slow down, calm down, take a deep breath,

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Speaker 1: and just get this US China trade talk wrapped up.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll start with saying that the farmers will

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Speaker 1: take the bailout. They're happy to see the amount of

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Speaker 1: money that has come through from this. There was a

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Speaker 1: question of this being anywhere between fifteen billion to twenty billion.

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Speaker 1: We landed on a sixteen billion dollar. Of that, fourteen

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Speaker 1: point five billions will be directly paid to farmers in

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Speaker 1: this this bailout. But of course the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: farmers want reliability and this uh the terrorits that have

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Speaker 1: been coming from China through this escalating trade situation obviously

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Speaker 1: takes that away from them. And these are farmers that

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Speaker 1: are in the heartland of America. There wheat farmers, soybean farmers,

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Speaker 1: corn farmers already big stressed because of the weather we

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Speaker 1: saw this past season, because of the flooding that has

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Speaker 1: already made it's so hard for them to get the

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Speaker 1: products and crops out into the field. Now they have

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Speaker 1: less of a market to go to. And I just

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Speaker 1: want to set the stage a little bit the President,

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Speaker 1: I mean really really just going after Democrats. Uh, but

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Speaker 1: but really just saying that it's been a hindrance to

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Speaker 1: his ability to talk policy on issues like the USMCT.

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Speaker 1: Here's President Trump earlier today at the White House. Serious,

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Speaker 1: we're fixing broken trade deals to open up markets for

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Speaker 1: American exports, including with the brand new US Mexico Canada

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Speaker 1: agreement and agreement that the Democrats in Congress many are supporting,

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Speaker 1: I must say, and they've told us they're supporting it

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Speaker 1: regardless of leadership. And that's President Trump talking about his

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Speaker 1: administrations releasing sixteen billion dollars worth of funding to help

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Speaker 1: US farmers. Jack Fitzpatrick over at Bloomberg Government. When you

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Speaker 1: talk to staffers on the Hill, when you talk to

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Speaker 1: members on the hill, especially these Republicans and states like

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Speaker 1: Tennessee for example, that are impacted by this, what are

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Speaker 1: you hearing? Because they don't like the policy, but the politics,

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Speaker 1: they're standing behind the president. Yeah, Republicans and Trump, especially

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Speaker 1: after kind of thread a needle here, uh, and and

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Speaker 1: stand by the campaign promise that he was gonna be

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Speaker 1: tough on China, be tough on trade. But obviously he

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Speaker 1: can't abandon the heartland. Miranda was right to mention this

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Speaker 1: is happening at a time with all these floods in

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Speaker 1: the Midwest, so clearly Trump needs to kind of strike

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Speaker 1: some deals provide money to make up for the trade deficiencies.

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Speaker 1: And also, I mean he just agreed to send about

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Speaker 1: three billion dollars extra in disaster aid to these flooded states.

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Speaker 1: So there's a clear focus on giving something to these

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Speaker 1: Midwestern farm heavy states. And this is especially when these

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Speaker 1: are key Trump vote our constituents, right, so we're looking

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Speaker 1: to This is always something that's important to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind here, but these farmers are the people that typically

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Speaker 1: do go out and vote and have supported President Trump.

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Speaker 1: And it is an interesting dynamic that these flooding situations

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Speaker 1: that have hit him have been attributed to the effects

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Speaker 1: of climate change, which is also something that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration has not been one to talk about and wants

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Speaker 1: to kind of shrug aside, especially Republicans on the Hill.

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Speaker 1: To the struggle for progresses Miranda, and you know this,

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Speaker 1: I mean has aoc for example, with the Green New

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Speaker 1: Deal gone to Cold Country, and I think that economic

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Speaker 1: argument becomes problematic for a lot of these progressive Democratic

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Speaker 1: socialists when they would go to these towns where so

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Speaker 1: much of it's not just their livelihood, but their identity

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Speaker 1: is wrapped in their professions. So unpackaging all of that

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Speaker 1: has been fascinating. And the President double double whacking, uh

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Speaker 1: the U. S. China trade talks in U S m

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Speaker 1: c A with the political drama between Speaker Pelosi, who,

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Speaker 1: by the way, he referred to just hear this. He

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Speaker 1: referred to her as a mess, a quote unquote mess.

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Speaker 1: She's a mess, according to President Trump. This after Speaker

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Speaker 1: Pelosi yesterday said that she's praying for the President. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's it's theater, but like it's not Broadway. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's President Trump on the U. S m c A

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Speaker 1: and Speaker Pelosi. This is just a little snapshot here.

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Speaker 1: It is Pelosi does not understand the bill. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: understand it, even though unions are in favor of it, farmers,

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Speaker 1: manufact everybody just about is in favor of it. It's

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Speaker 1: a replacement for, as I said, the worst trade deal

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Speaker 1: ever made. So she's got to get up to snuff,

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Speaker 1: wants to approve it. So the gloves are off. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think earlier on several months ago, Jack

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Speaker 1: at the off at least was quietly saying, Wow, Speaker

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Speaker 1: Pelosi knows how to handle this. And now I think

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Speaker 1: you're seeing President Trump is fully prepared to just completely

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Speaker 1: politically go after her in the same way that she's

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Speaker 1: going with him. Yeah, well, she's gradually increasing how aggressive

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Speaker 1: her rhetoric has been so gradually that a lot of

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Speaker 1: Democrats think she needs to move faster. But you heard

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Speaker 1: her use the word cover up yesterday. You have heard

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Speaker 1: her uh not talk about supporting impeachment. But uh, I

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Speaker 1: think increasingly critical of Trump generally when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the findings of the Mueller report. And so it's hard

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Speaker 1: to separate any of these spats between them on trade

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Speaker 1: or on infrastructure from probably just personal feelings that Trump

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Speaker 1: has that he should not be investigated any further and

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Speaker 1: also that I mean, that's a great way to change

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Speaker 1: the subject for him. And when you just read some

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Speaker 1: of these quotes, I mean that the transcript of it.

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Speaker 1: I was in the control room prepping for this shows

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Speaker 1: as this was going on, we had to leave the

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Speaker 1: White House because of that storm, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: was wild. Did you guys are calling it hunger down

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Speaker 1: in my comment? Okay, well, a mess. President Trump called

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Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi a mess. Crazy. Let's face it. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: understand it, crazy Nancy. Oh, he doesn't want to call

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Speaker 1: her crazy Nancy because because he already calls crazy Bernie. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then there was this is of course after Speaker

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Speaker 1: Pelosi said that that that that he threw a temper tantrum.

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Speaker 1: But the White House is saying that that's a lot

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Speaker 1: coming up. Enough of the political theater. Let's talk policy.

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Speaker 1: We're talking Iran. We've got John Guns in the House.

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Speaker 1: He wrote the book called White House Warriors, How the

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Speaker 1: National Security Council transformed the American way of war. He's

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Speaker 1: going to weigh in on the Pentagon briefing the White

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Speaker 1: House on five thousand troop option for the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: And we'll also talk about what President Trump had to

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Speaker 1: say about Iran as well. Annal Stays, Miranda Green of

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Speaker 1: The Hill, Jack Fitzpatrick of bov get the Big app

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's awesome. And I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief

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Speaker 1: Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV and Bloomberg Radio. Download the

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Speaker 1: Sound On podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: or by downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also

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Speaker 1: find us on Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirellian. You are listening to Bloomberg. This is

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Speaker 1: Sound On with Kevin Currelic on Bloomberg and seven of

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Speaker 1: m HD two Baltimore Rough Day, Rough Day with the weather,

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Speaker 1: and you've got the drama between Speaker Pelosi and President Trump.

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Speaker 1: But President Trump not just going after Speaker Pelosi. Did

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Speaker 1: you did you miss this former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

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Speaker 1: President Trump calls him on Twitter quote unquote dumb as

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Speaker 1: a rock and totally ill prepared and ill equipped to

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Speaker 1: be Secretary of State. Made up a story he got

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Speaker 1: fired that I was out prepared by Vladimir Putin at

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Speaker 1: a meeting in Hamburg, Germany. I don't think Putin would agree.

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Speaker 1: Look how the US is doing. That was President Trump

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Speaker 1: after the former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson essentially said

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Speaker 1: that Putin not prepared Trump back in seventeen, I'm Kevin CERELLI,

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Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio. Joining

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Speaker 1: me in studio Miranda Green, Congressional reporter at the Hill,

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Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick Bloomberg Government Congressional reporter, and John gonz He's

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Speaker 1: a former chief speech writer at the Pentagon up until

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Speaker 1: seventeen for Secretary Ash Carter. He's also the author of

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Speaker 1: a new book called White House Warriors, How the National

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Speaker 1: Security Council Transformed the American Way of War. John, you're

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Speaker 1: a Philly guy. You teach at U Penn, Right, it's

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Speaker 1: a great city. I went to Penn State, not you, Penn,

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Speaker 1: but it's a great city and we're thrilled to have

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Speaker 1: you here. Congratulations on the book. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the book coming up, but I want to get

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Speaker 1: your take on the foreign policy developments of the day,

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Speaker 1: because according to the new or according to Bloomberg, the

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Speaker 1: Pentagon is planning to brief the White House on options

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Speaker 1: to deploy as many as five thousand American troops to

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Speaker 1: the Middle East amidst escalating tensions with Iran. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: another piece of this sort of action reaction too, for

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Speaker 1: tat tweet for tweet between Iran and the United States,

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Speaker 1: where sort of almost out of nowhere. We've seen a

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Speaker 1: sort of growing escalation and the tensions between these two countries,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of questions about what's going on behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes in Washington and who's running the show. Well,

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Speaker 1: who is running the show? Well, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: good question at the moment. I think until about last week,

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Speaker 1: there were many who said John Bolton, the National Security

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Speaker 1: Advisor's longtime hawk on Iran, was pushing President Trump and

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Speaker 1: pushing the entire government into a closer confrontation with with

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Speaker 1: that country. Um. But at the end of last week

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Speaker 1: it seemed as though President Trump decided to reassert his

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Speaker 1: authority both publicly and privately, to try and grab grab

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Speaker 1: hold of things. Well, I want to dig deeper, and

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Speaker 1: I want to pick up and follow up on this

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Speaker 1: particular point, John, because I mean, you know this better

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Speaker 1: than anybody. The books called White House Warriors how the

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Speaker 1: National Security Council transformed the American way of war. So

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Speaker 1: take us out of the mainstream media fodder of oh,

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Speaker 1: the President doesn't like when the other guy beneath him

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Speaker 1: gets the headlines and gets all the attention. No, take

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Speaker 1: us into the back room, into the security meetings where

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Speaker 1: the decisions get made in terms of who has the

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Speaker 1: president's ear and the briefings on issues pertaining to Iran.

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Speaker 1: And when when you say the president reasserts his authority,

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Speaker 1: what does that actually mean beyond just tweets. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think for a few things, I mean behind the scenes. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of basically it's like any workplace. Like

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Speaker 1: people sort of forget that about the national security business.

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Speaker 1: It's basically like a lot of meetings, a lot of memos,

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Speaker 1: a lot of interpretation of data, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: giving your best guess at what's going on. And it

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Speaker 1: that that happens in every administration and occasionally workplaces you

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Speaker 1: have home people who get ahead of themselves, who get

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Speaker 1: on the wrong side of others and sort of get

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Speaker 1: ahead of their boss or perhaps to get on their

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Speaker 1: bosses bad side. So this isn't sort of unnatural what's

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Speaker 1: going what has happened in history. I think what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing now is that because John Bolton has to degree

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Speaker 1: changed and minimize the consultations they're going on in Washington

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Speaker 1: about foreign policy, the so called inter agency process. That's

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Speaker 1: how how he's basically minimized the number of meetings he's

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Speaker 1: shrunk the number of meetings. He's shrunk the number of

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Speaker 1: people get to go to the meetings. He's sort of

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Speaker 1: kept people out of the loop um and kept people

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Speaker 1: on their back, back on the back of their feet

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Speaker 1: to try and keep them out of the main conversations

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Speaker 1: with President Trump. He's tried to basically do more and

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Speaker 1: more just with President Trump want on one and with

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Speaker 1: smaller groups versus having a sort of bigger conversation while

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Speaker 1: all the views are aired and all the information is

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Speaker 1: shared with everybody. Do you think that the press that

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Speaker 1: the administration's economic actions against Iran have pushed to run

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Speaker 1: in a direction that will uh force them to to

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Speaker 1: lose their nuclear ambitions. I think what you see is

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Speaker 1: is that we know how to hurt Iran's economy, right.

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Speaker 1: That's something that they the Obama administration did very well

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Speaker 1: and the lead up to the Obama the Iran nuclear deal,

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Speaker 1: we're able to sort of collapse Iran's economy, and we

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Speaker 1: know we can do much of that again. It will

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Speaker 1: be harder with fewer allies on board this time, but

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we can do a

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Speaker 1: lot to hurt Iran, and Iran can do a lot

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Speaker 1: to so kay US in the Middle East and hurt

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Speaker 1: our people. And I think that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon has taken the sort of steps today to

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Speaker 1: sort of suggest we've got to increase the number of

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Speaker 1: troops in the region to protect everything. But if you

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Speaker 1: ever wanting the Iranian president rwanti, I mean what, how how?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how far are you willing to take this

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Speaker 1: without getting completely toppled? Well, I think he is president.

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Speaker 1: Not to interrupt you, but all interrupted. President Trump literally

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Speaker 1: just said at the White House within the last two

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Speaker 1: hours that all options are on the table. I mean, so,

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Speaker 1: how far I mean are they willing to take this?

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Speaker 1: My hunch is that, um, they are willing to push

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Speaker 1: because I think they look at the United States and

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Speaker 1: see a country that is isolated from its allies, that's

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Speaker 1: divided within its government, is threatening to impeach the president

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Speaker 1: of United States, and his own National Security Council is

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Speaker 1: divided on the issue of Iran. So my hunches, Rani

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Speaker 1: is probably feeling a little bit more confident about his

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Speaker 1: chances to push things today than he did back when

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration was keeping his feet to the fire

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Speaker 1: with UM. The the Iran nuclear deal and the tough sanctions.

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Speaker 1: So I think that a big war with Iran is

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Speaker 1: not something the polling suggested America people want, is not

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Speaker 1: something that the Pentagon has suggested it wanted, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like something present Trump really wants. He ran

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Speaker 1: as he ran a non he didn't want to be intervening.

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Speaker 1: Does withdrawing from the j c p o A or

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Speaker 1: the Iran nuclear disarmament Deal? Has that hurt or helped

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Speaker 1: uh the the US's goals with Iran? I think what

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Speaker 1: you it's definitely I think hurt America's position with Iran

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Speaker 1: because it's hard when to say all options are on

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Speaker 1: the table if you have to worry about a nuclear Iran. Right,

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Speaker 1: So what the Auron Nuclear Deal did a pretty good

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Speaker 1: job of. It wasn't perfect, It was, you know, a

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Speaker 1: week in some pieces that it didn't It didn't limit

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Speaker 1: all around in actions, but it basically allowed American military

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Speaker 1: planners to say, well, that's one thing we don't have

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Speaker 1: to worry about, right, we don't have that's one risk

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Speaker 1: we don't have to worry about in the region. That

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Speaker 1: basically put that risk back into play um and meant

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Speaker 1: that as we can only push around so much without

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Speaker 1: them reverting to a nuclear program rewarding to developing nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: So I think in the whole strategic scheme of the

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Speaker 1: Middle East, it put us in a worst position. In

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Speaker 1: our geopolitical position with our allies who are disappointed in

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Speaker 1: our withdrawal from the Auron Nuclear Deo. It put us

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Speaker 1: in a worse position, and generally speaking, it put the

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Speaker 1: United States on its back foot in terms of trying

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Speaker 1: to defend against nuclear periflation and other regions and other countries.

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Speaker 1: John guns stick around the books called White House Warriors,

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Speaker 1: How the National Security Council transformed the American way of war.

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Speaker 1: He's the former chief speech writer at the Pentagon. But

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Speaker 1: you say that like the intel world, in the security world,

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Speaker 1: it's just like an office politics. Is the coffee at

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon any good? It's terrible. You know. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a lot more like work than we ever imagine, folks.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin CEREALI Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Always a fan of coffee, especially when it's free.

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Speaker 1: You can download the sound on podcast on Apple iTunes,

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com, or by downloading the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on radio dot Com, I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Spotify. You're listening to Bloomberg one, you're listening

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Speaker 1: to Sound On with Kevin's he really on Bloomberg one

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven m h D two, Baltimore.

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Speaker 1: If everybody's saying that you're not calm, but you think

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Speaker 1: you are calm, are you really calm? President Trump is

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Speaker 1: really debating that publicly. He did it in the last

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Speaker 1: two hours with flanked by by some top aids, White

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Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders, Mercedes slap who else was

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Speaker 1: there at the White House with him, Kelly and Conway.

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Speaker 1: President Trump just delivering a blistering rebuke to Speaker Nancy Pelosi,

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Speaker 1: who was praying for the President after their infrastructure talks

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Speaker 1: deteriorated yesterday. I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Television and Bloomberg Radio. It was a remarkable display from

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Speaker 1: President Trump and his top aids, with farmers behind him

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Speaker 1: joining me in studio to break down the politics and

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Speaker 1: policy of this. Miranda Green, Congressional reporter for The Hill.

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Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick, Bloomberg Government Congressional reporter and John Gons, former

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Speaker 1: chief speech writer at the Pentagon up until for former

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Speaker 1: Secretary Ash Carter. He's also got a new book called

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Speaker 1: White House Warriors, which takes an inside look about how

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Speaker 1: the National Security Council transformed the American way of war. Miranda,

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Speaker 1: I want to get your take on on dissecting and

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Speaker 1: unpackaging the president's remarks just just a several hours ago,

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Speaker 1: because it was he was attacking Speaker Pelosi, but he

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Speaker 1: did it by talking about trade, and then he talked

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Speaker 1: about Iran. But I was struck by the exchange when

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Speaker 1: he called on, excuse me, when he called on Larry Cudlow,

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Speaker 1: his senior economic advisor, and asked Cudlow about his perception

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Speaker 1: of the meeting with Pelosi, and he brought up China.

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Speaker 1: Take a listening calm like I was at the news

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Speaker 1: conference minutes ago, he said. He says that he was

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Speaker 1: calmer than than the than than some of the trade

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Speaker 1: meetings between the US and China. Miranda, I mean, who,

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Speaker 1: who do you believe? I think it just shows that

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Speaker 1: so many of these issues are being wrapped into one

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Speaker 1: right now, right this was supposed to be Infrastructure Week,

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Speaker 1: and we we're talking about immigration issues. Now we're talking

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Speaker 1: about trade issues, we're talking about farm bells, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about war between nance speaker, Polosy and Trump on words.

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Speaker 1: So there, it seems like all of the issues are

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Speaker 1: kind of tied up into one in a situation that

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Speaker 1: you ask a question about one and you get an

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Speaker 1: answer about something else because that is inter linked. But

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Speaker 1: like Iran, I mean, the President was as point blank

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Speaker 1: about the situation in Iran and if he's gonna send

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Speaker 1: troops there, take a listen to what he said. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna need them. I really don't, but

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Speaker 1: I have a meeting on it in about an hour.

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Speaker 1: I would certainly send troops if we need them. Iran

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Speaker 1: has been a very dangerous player, very bad player. They're

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Speaker 1: a nation of terror. What are democrats on the hill,

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Speaker 1: Jack to you first saying about Iran? Uh in terms

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Speaker 1: of in terms of what they want from the president.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know the presidential candidates are saying they

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Speaker 1: don't want to go to war, but what are democrats saying?

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Speaker 1: Because my nuanced understanding of this is that they're actually

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Speaker 1: saying they want more information, which is very different than

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Speaker 1: than kind of taking a position Yeah, no one. I

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone really appreciates the rhetoric saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to go to war, but we could potentially.

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Speaker 1: There there's a lot of skepticism even just about the

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Speaker 1: amount of saber rattling that we're seeing here. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: was a little bit of a hectic week on the Hill,

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Speaker 1: so it almost got buried in the news compared to

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Speaker 1: if it was a slower newsweek, but get buried. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's concerning, and even some some allies

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Speaker 1: of the president obviously are not matching his sort of

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Speaker 1: escalated rhetoric. And yet there have been some Democratic senators

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Speaker 1: on the Hill who have who have been pushing this

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Speaker 1: idea of trying to limit funding towards a future escalation

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Speaker 1: with iran Um. We had Senator King actually tell reporters

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Speaker 1: today up on the Hill that he would be vowing

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Speaker 1: to push forward a measure aired at restricting military action,

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Speaker 1: calling it a colossal disaster if it went through. We

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Speaker 1: had some senators trying to push through it an appropriations

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Speaker 1: built earlier to and fail. So there have been a

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Speaker 1: lot of Uh, there's been some movement from the Democrats

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Speaker 1: trying to bind the administration's hands if first, if Trump

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Speaker 1: did decide that he wanted to try to push some

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Speaker 1: sort of military action, if it weren't in self defense,

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Speaker 1: as they say. Um, John, what I'd like to ask you.

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Speaker 1: You know, some of the Republicans have been making a

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Speaker 1: pushback in the Senate, making a strong cry to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the public knows that they're not pushing for

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Speaker 1: war here. They really A lot of the comments we've

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Speaker 1: been seeing from Market Rubio and Lindsay Graham is that

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Speaker 1: this isn't an escalation of war, that this is just

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Speaker 1: to make sure. Why do you think it's so important

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Speaker 1: that some of these Republican senators and members of the

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Speaker 1: House need to distinguish the difference between, you know, putting

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Speaker 1: more troops out there for security practices versus war purposes.

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Speaker 1: I think for two reasons. I think they're trying because

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Speaker 1: they see the level of tension in the rhetoric being escalating.

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Speaker 1: I think they're trying to just modulate the voices coming

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Speaker 1: from the United States in some way. So I think

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Speaker 1: there's a degree of the real fear right now is

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Speaker 1: the idea of self defense is really complicated one where

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Speaker 1: you're putting more troops. You're putting more forces, you're putting

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Speaker 1: more capabilities with its aircraft carriers in the region, the

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Speaker 1: opportunities for mistakes, accidents, miscalculations increases, so you actually could

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Speaker 1: very well tumble yourself into a war. And so what

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Speaker 1: I think, um, those especially those allies of the president

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Speaker 1: or sometime allies of the president who have had some

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Speaker 1: modulating influence on foreign policy, but they're trying to do

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Speaker 1: is is I think calm down the talk a little bit, um.

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Speaker 1: And they're also I think trying to pull some information

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Speaker 1: out of the White House and trying to be allies

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Speaker 1: to those whether it's at the Pentagon or at the

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Speaker 1: State Department, who are frustrated by what's happening with John

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00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: Bolton and others at the White House behind the scenes.

432
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: But you also, Marian, that's a great question. Do you

433
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: also think John, there's a sense that if your Senator

434
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: Graham or Senator Rubio, and the perception which is so

435
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,239
Speaker 1: oftentimes reality that they are war hungry, that they are

436
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: actually trying to say, we'll see this, we initially didn't

437
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: want it, and then should there be a turning point,

438
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: they're able to to kind of show, um, a progression

439
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: Allah Speaker Pelosi with impeachment. I think there's some degree

440
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: of wanting to I mean, and I think there's some

441
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: degree of wanting to sort of escalate it um and

442
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: have room to go right because we aren't quite there yet, um,

443
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: at least in some people's eyes, we weren't quite a

444
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: war yet. And so I think there's probably some effort

445
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: to say, I'd like to have a few rhetorical tricks

446
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: I can still pull. But I also think, genuinely speaking,

447
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: that there there is no shortage of people in this

448
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: town that know exactly how another heart, another war in

449
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: the Middle East would be. We've done this now for

450
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: fifteen to seventeen years, right um in afghan popular and

451
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: I rock. And the fact of the matter is heading

452
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: into an election year, but also heading into a time

453
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: where you know, everybody's got other issues they're focusing on,

454
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: whether it's China, whether it's been his way I know,

455
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: whether it's Russia. There's a lot of concern I think

456
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: was starting a fight that wasn't necessarily um demanded by

457
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: the region. And I think there's also a lot of

458
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: concern that these folks all here from allies abroad, allies

459
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: in Europe, other people around the United States, old retired general,

460
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: former national security hands. We kind of say, this is

461
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: not where we need to go. So um as much

462
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: as these folks are known for being hawks, I think

463
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: there's still a concern between being hard. There's a difference

464
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: between being hard on Iran and wanting to go to

465
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: war with Iran. Alright, coming up more politics and policy

466
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: panel stays John Gunns, the author of the new book

467
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: White House Warriors, How the National Security Council Transformed the

468
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: American Way of War. Miranda Green of The Hill and

469
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick of Bloomberg Government. Download the Sound On podcast

470
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or by downloading

471
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app. You can also find us on

472
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify. I'm Kevin Sirelli.

473
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg one. This is Sound On with

474
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: Kevin Surreally on Bloomberg one and one oh five point

475
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: seven of m h D two Boltemore. So it was

476
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: extremely calm. I was probably even more so in that room.

477
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: So I walked into the cabinet room. You had the

478
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: group cry and chuck crazy. Nancy. I'll tell you what

479
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: I've been watching her and I have I have been

480
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: watching her for a long period of time. She's not

481
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: the same person. Uh, she's lost it. Wow. President Trump

482
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: not holding back earlier today at the White House saying

483
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has quote unquote lost it. I'm

484
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: Kevin cur really, Chief Washington correspondent form Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg

485
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: Radio with me here to dissect and unpackaged. But all

486
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: of this noise from Speaker Pelosi and President Trump, the

487
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: noise what it means for policy? Miranda Green, reporter at

488
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: the Hill, Jack Fitzpatrick, who is a Bloomberg government congressional reporter.

489
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: Both of them were on for the Mueller episode and

490
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: they both came back. Thanks guys, thank you. Don't chix it.

491
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: We've got another segment. John Connes is here as well,

492
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: a Philly guy. Philly guy my nick of the wood

493
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: White House Warriors is the name of his new book,

494
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: How the National Security Council Transformed the American Way of War.

495
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: And we were talking about Iran earlier and trade policy.

496
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: But John, I want to come back to this broader

497
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: question of national security and intelligence as well. How has

498
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: President Trump really you heard it in just the clip

499
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: and how he's saying that the Speaker of the House,

500
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: so you used to work for how it how how

501
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: it's transformed? How is it transformed foreign policy? How is

502
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: this president transformed foreign policy? I think for a lot

503
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: of ways he was meant to sort of be a

504
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: transformative president and sort of that was his goal coming in.

505
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: But I think where he has struggled to do that

506
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: is is he has a lot of intentions and a

507
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: lot of rhetoric, but he has struggled, especially over the

508
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: first two years, to sort of actually put policy to

509
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: his rhetoric, in part because, um, you know, he blames

510
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: it on sort of a deep state of sort of

511
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: shadowy bureaucrats, but partly just because he wasn't able to

512
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: sort of get the team or the people that we're

513
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: functioning and able to get him what he wanted. In

514
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: some ways, Um, he finally got the bureaucraty needs in

515
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: John Bolton, who is a master at sort of working

516
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy to get policies and get things implemented and

517
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: get things changed. But the fact of the matter is

518
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: is that he has struggled to put his sort of

519
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: um big talk to sort of pull America back from

520
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: the world and to um sort of take a harder

521
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: edge and sort of do this sort of what I

522
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: call the mad mad diplomacy, which is what Richard Nixon did,

523
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: which is sort of big put big threats into the

524
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: world and then have to sort of find ways to

525
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: sort of back them up. He hasn't sort of been

526
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: able to do the coercion because he has been able

527
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: to get the policies in place. How has President Trump's

528
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: National Security Council differed from previous administrations? UM, well, I

529
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: think it's probably in two ways. It's marked by a

530
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: lot of turnover. Right, you mentioned Secretary Tillers in earlier

531
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: you've had Secretary Mass You've had now a fair amount

532
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: of turnover UM. And we've had three National Security advisors,

533
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: which isn't a record but is close. Right. Ronald reag

534
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: and Crank thrown pretty fast, so he had UM he

535
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: had six in eight years, Wow, which is staggering. So

536
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: you know this what a wrong contra does? You know

537
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: you have to you sort of have to change the

538
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: team a few times, but he had he ran through

539
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: um several uh, and so you've had a lot of changeover.

540
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: So I think that's one thing. I think the second

541
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: thing is is that, um, the President has taken a

542
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: pretty hands off approach to a lot of it except

543
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: for this sort of big issues. So on a lot

544
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: of small stuff, you know, the policies on whether it's

545
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: South China Sea or sort of some Latin American things like,

546
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: things go along, but then he only sort of seems

547
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: to engage on the big things. So it's been a

548
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: pretty hands off operation except on those big matters. And

549
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: you've seen a lot of turnover and so in fact,

550
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of people who have

551
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: um looked for more of the president's leadership on national

552
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: security and a little bit more of the management of

553
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: the national security process, but he hasn't really engaged in

554
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: that way. All Right, we'll stick around. John Guns the

555
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: name of the book. It's a great father's day book

556
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: as well, How the National Security Council transformed the American

557
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: way of war, White House Warriors. It really talks about

558
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: the staffers at the NSC. Everybody hears the NSC. You

559
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: pass it through town when you're going down seventeen to

560
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and you see the E E O B. The

561
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: I never know and it's like the old Executive Office building,

562
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: the Eisenhower old executive of Eisenhower. That's the other eight.

563
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: I never see what I learned as a journalist, the EO. B.

564
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: I never knew what the first he was Eisenhower. All right,

565
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: by the book, it's great book, White House Warriors. All right,

566
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: Miranda Jack, what do you have on your radar for tomorrow?

567
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: As we're finally almost to the three day weekend. So

568
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: Congress just left, but they after the House left, they

569
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: somehow came up with a disaster Aid deal. After about

570
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: five and a half months of struggling to pass something.

571
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico was running out of money for food stamps. UH.

572
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: The Democrats essentially dared Trump and the Republicans to oppose

573
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: something that doesn't include border funds UH, and repel Bliicans

574
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: mostly caved. They got some concessions from Democrats. But the

575
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: House is gone, so we're going to see if they're

576
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: able to actually pass it finally through unanimous consent or

577
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: if anybody objects to that. But we are now like

578
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: of the way through this disaster aid fight that's been

579
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: going on since December, and finally we have Trump agreeing

580
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: to to sign something that doesn't have border funds and

581
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: is just disaster aid with a lot of money for

582
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico especially everyone everyone is a hypocrite on disaster relief.

583
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: It's very either party, either party because yeah, Miranda, Well,

584
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: now with Congress out acession, my sites are shifting a

585
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: bit to so I am focusing on all of the

586
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: Democratic hopeful's climate change plans. We are expecting that Biden

587
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: will soon come out with his He will be that

588
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: I believe candidate to come out with a specific one.

589
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: There were teasers about it last week. He had was

590
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: coming up with a plan. According to his advisors, told

591
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: Reuters that it would be a middle ground approach. As

592
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: you can imagine, progressives and environmentalists have not been happy

593
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: about that idea. The idea of attacking climate change, to

594
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: them is not something you can do in the middle.

595
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: You're either for attacking climate change, which means getting rid

596
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: of fossil fuels, which means transitioning to clean energy electric grid,

597
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: or you aren't and you you know, don't consider the

598
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: idea of climate change is existential threat, which is a

599
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: term that we are constantly caring for. Groups like the

600
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: Sentaterisming Event, youth groups that are backing progressive policies like

601
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal. I was struck by Senator Chris

602
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Ken's I interviewed him for Bloomberg Television earlier this week.

603
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: He uh is a Democrat from Delaware, Delaware, Delaware where

604
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: former Vice President Joe Biden used to be a senator. There.

605
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: You know, he's got the former vice presidents here, and

606
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: he was saying, essentially I'm paraphrasing, but this is the

607
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: message is that you know, this New Green Deal is

608
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: not doing a lot to try to build bipartisan consensus

609
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: to address by part of and consensus to address uh,

610
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: the environment. Well, you know, it's interesting speaking of coons.

611
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: He actually hosted seventoes on the Hill yesterday and these

612
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: are CEOs from big name companies, right, so we're talking PEPSI,

613
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: We're even talking fossil fueld companies like BP and Shell

614
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: who all want to see a carbon tax, which has

615
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: been something that has kind of been off the radar recently.

616
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: Democrats have push it in the pack is a way

617
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: of curbing emissions. This means that there's any sort of

618
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: polluter that does put out carbon has to pay for it,

619
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: so it cold isn't like in the end means that

620
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: they ultimately should you know, pull back. That's the goal here.

621
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: And so a lot of these these CEOs of these

622
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: companies are saying they want to see that because climate

623
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: change is hurting their bottom line. And so Coon's was,

624
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, coming out and support of that and saying

625
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: that's something he wants to see and to dive really

626
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: really deep in here. And I know we're up against

627
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: the clock, but to dive deep here is essentially Republicans

628
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: are saying, well, why should I negotiate with you on

629
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: the carbon text when the left of your party is

630
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: talking about the Green New Deal, which, by the way,

631
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: no one truthfully knows what that means. John God's thank you,

632
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: Miranda Green, thank you, Jack Fitzpatrick, thank you, and of

633
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: course to our audience, thank you. That's it for me.

634
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and

635
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, and you're listening to Bloomberg