WEBVTT - Pats from the Past, Episode 16: Jeff Benedict 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.840 Time out for another episode of Phats in the Past 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.240 podcast Matt Smith along with Brian Morey, and we're pleased 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.760 to be joined today by the best selling author of 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.840 the book that you might not be able to find 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.000 in the shells because it's flying off the shells. The 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.520 book is called The Dynasty. The author is Jeff Benedict, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:22.600 who joins us now. And Jeff, thank you so much 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.239 for your time in joining us. How's things going. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.000 Things are going great, and I really appreciate a chance 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:29.960 to be on the podcast with you guys. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.360 So I guess the first question that maybe Patriots fans 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.440 would want to know Jeff as an author, And I 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.760 know that I thoroughly enjoyed the Tiger Woods book that 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:41.519 you did. It's one of the best books I think 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:46.320 I've ever read. This isn't your first rodeo. You've written 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.040 so many books and so many really good books. How 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:56.280 does this story come across Jeff Benedict's desk and say, 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.640 you know what, I'd like to tackle the Patriots in 0:00:58.720 --> 0:00:59.920 their dynasty? How did it come up? 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.600 Well, first of all, I'm a New England native born 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.679 and raised in Connecticut. I grew up watching this team 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.400 and actually rooting against them. I was a Miami Dolphins 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.640 fan as a kid and would go to the stadium 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.319 once a year when the Dolphins were in town. I 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.679 think my first memory of thinking of the sort of 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.759 book potential of the Patriots story would have been on 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.959 the final game of the two thousand and seven regular season, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.920 when the Patriots were in the Meadowlands to face the 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.760 Giants and see if they could finish the season sixteen 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.320 and oero and watching that game on television, particularly the 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.039 way it ended, and especially with what had gone on 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.640 that season early in the year, I remember sitting in 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:54.480 my house and when Brady connected with Moss and silenced 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.560 Giants fans and basically silenced the largest stadium in the NFL. 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.000 I was thinking to myself at that time, and that 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.720 was obviously way before they would win three more Super Bowls, 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.800 that there's a there's something going on here that's bigger 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:17.200 than just football. The Patriots had become something iconic and 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.359 something that was becoming part of the American fabric. And 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.080 when I look for books to write you mentioned Tiger Woods. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.880 I mean it's I'm looking for stories that transcend the 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:36.120 sport and leave a cultural imprint on a country around 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.639 the world, and I think the Patriots as an organization 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.840 and as a team have done that over the last 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.440 twenty years. Now. I'm not telling you that that night 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.560 I thought I want to write a book about this team. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.280 I'm just saying that that's like sort of the first 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.760 origin seed for me. And then by the time you 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:59.000 get to the twenty fourteen twenty fifteen timeframe, that's when 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.280 I was starting to think seriously about a book and 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.560 what it might look like, and that process of thinking 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:12.760 about it takes time. I wrote two books during that period, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.440 one with Steve Young's autobiography and then one with Tiger 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:21.080 Wood's biography, and those are huge undertakings. But I'm just 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.920 saying a lot of thought went into this from my perspective, 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.040 and I think that this is a team that deserves 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.000 that kind of thought. They've earned it. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.720 I gotta tell you, Jeff, in listening to you speak 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.200 right there and using the words or the phrase, this 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.840 is something bigger than football. That hits me right between 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.920 the eyes when I hear you say that. And the 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.200 first thing I think of when you say that is, man, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.839 I'm too close to the situation. Here is somebody who 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.720 works here look at what a quote unquote outsider and 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.880 how he views this from the outside. And when you 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.480 say that, it almost gives me chills, quite honestly, Jeff. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.200 You know, and when you say that, you go, man, 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.080 he's right. This is a cultural As you said, Jeff, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.600 this is a cultural phenomenon, and we just think of 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.160 this as a very successful organization. Just think of this 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.840 as a very successful just like every football team. But 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.400 to hear you say that puts it in a perspective Jeff. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.960 That my guess is people who are around it, and 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.640 maybe even real diehard Patriot feans maybe are spoiled. I 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.280 don't know if that's the right thing to say, Brian 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:32.840 or not, because when you hear very clearly articulate that, Jeff, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.400 that's that's an interesting perspective. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.679 I think that for me, again, I try to take 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:46.039 a big and distant view of topics that I want 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.599 to write about, because when you think about it, you 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.560 have to invest years of your life to write a book. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.800 It becomes your life. So Steve Young was my life 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.760 for a number of years. Then Tiger Woods was my life, 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.120 and then the New England Patriots became my life and 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.960 they still are my life right now because that book 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.560 is just out, and so you've become fully immersed. And 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.159 in order to want to be fully immersed in something, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.680 from my perspective, that's something has to be really big 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.400 and engrossing and engaging, and I think it has to 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.560 tap into America. And I think what I love about 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.919 the Patriots story, I mean, the winning is obvious, like 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.000 you can look at it and see, now there's a 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.839 body of work to say, well, I mean, look at 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.280 all the Lombardi Trophies and the goal the rings, and 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.120 the incredible victories and the statistics and all that stuff 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.200 that we already know all that. When you look broader though, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.039 and you see how this team has fit into Americana 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.360 for the last twenty years. What's beautiful about the architecture 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.640 is in the year two thousand, so at the turn 0:05:55.680 --> 0:06:00.120 of the century, Robert Kraft makes what I would call 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.560 the greatest trade in the history of sports. I think 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.880 the greatest trade in the history of sports used to 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.599 be Babe Ruth from the Red Sox to the Yankees. 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.960 Most lopsided trade, and it had the most impact. But 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:20.360 I think there's a new trade now. When Craft wrestles 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.760 Belichick away from Parcels and away from New York and 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.760 brings him to Foxborough. And then within months Bill Belichick 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.960 makes the draft choice of a lifetime by picking the 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:39.600 quarterback that clearly nobody else wanted. All of that happens 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.920 in the same year, two thousand. The beautiful symmetry there 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.480 is that is the start of a new century, and 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.080 that's the start of the machine that gets built in Foxborough. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.440 And so for the first twenty years of the twenty 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.440 first century, they are the juggernaut of American sports. And 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.560 as a result, as major things happen in American history, 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.160 starting with the nine to eleven terror attacks in two 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:11.240 thousand and one, this team is front and center in 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.880 the storyline because that's the magical year that they go 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.160 to the Super Bowl and win against all odds, and 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.760 then we get that great phrase that Patriots are world champions, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.880 and tonight we're all Patriots. That that, to me is 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.040 what I mean when I say a team that's been 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:30.800 in the center of American culture. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.560 Yeah, I think it's It's an incredible story, and I 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.400 love the book, and I told you separately that I 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.840 got very emotional at times during it. But I want 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:49.240 to know to build on that's question, how like, how 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.440 did you get in the door to do this? 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.600 You know, it's been a very kind because it's such 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:55.680 a welcoming organization. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.320 It's very it's been very it's very tight, right and 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.800 you know, than David Halberstam's book Education of a Coach, 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.520 there really hasn't been what you normally see from championship 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.560 teams or franchises. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.440 College coaches write a book as soon as they win 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:11.840 a title. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.120 You know, there's all these books about success, and none 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.640 of that has really come out of this organization. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:19.000 How did you get to do it? 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.880 I can only speak to my part of that. I mean, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.560 there's obviously questions that the Patriots organization can answer from 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.360 their perspective of how and why, But from my perspective, 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.240 I certainly read there have been a lot of books 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.920 written about this team, and some good ones. I mean, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.000 I've read Michael Holly's books first. Sure, I certainly read 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.840 David Halberstam's book about Belichick. I am a huge Halberstam 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.520 fan and have been for a long time. But my 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.520 approach was that again trying to look at things differently 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.000 and also look at them wide, So a wide Lens. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.199 I started with the idea that, look, there are three 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:06.160 central figures in the creation of the dynasty, and they 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:10.280 are the two obvious ones, Brady and Belichick, but then 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:14.880 third the owner, Robert Kraft. And of the three, it 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.800 was Craft who has been least explored and least discussed 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.760 in the conversation about who's most responsible. And so I 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:30.400 also knew that there really haven't been any good sports books. 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:32.480 And by the way, I see this as more than 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.080 a sportsbook, but it's in that genre of sportsbooks, and 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.040 there hasn't been a really good sports book where the 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.680 owner is a central figure in the book. And so 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.120 to me, it was sort of begging to go to 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:51.120 that direction. Plus, it is his team, it's a franchise, 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.200 and it's a family business for the Crafts. And so 0:09:54.360 --> 0:10:00.480 I approached Robert first before anybody else. I did it 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.559 in a sort of an old fashioned way, but I 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.040 wrote him a letter and I introduced myself and I 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:12.960 did things there that are this will sound kind of quirky, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.880 perhaps to some of your audience, but I did what 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.280 I would do if I was a college kid right 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.280 out of college trying to get my first job. Is 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:28.760 I essentially provided him some references, you know, reference letter, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:33.920 and you know, I invited him to talk to Steve Young, 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.240 because Steve led me in his life for a few 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.560 years to write that book. I invited him to reach 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.480 out to coach Krzyzewski because Coach K had allowed me. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.760 I was the first journalist that Coach K ever allowed 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.240 inside the Duke basketball program. And so I took a 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.080 similar approach here with the Patriots. I wanted to write 0:10:55.240 --> 0:11:00.000 a very intimate, personal inside account of how this dynasty 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.000 was built and how it was sustained. And I wanted 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.520 to start at the top because I really did want 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.280 to tell the story literally, not only from the inside out, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.320 but from the top down. And so that was the 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.000 approach I took. And I spent a couple of years, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.000 and you guys know this to a certain degree because 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.319 you saw me in your facility, and you guys were 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:25.960 helpful in providing me with lists of video and audio 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.800 that I wanted to see the kinds of things that 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.440 I was trying to do in this story. I spent 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.640 a ton of time at NFL Films in Mount Laurel, 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.360 New Jersey, looking at video and listening to audio that's 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.280 never been seen or heard before. I was trying to 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.160 find as many intimate ways as I could to tell 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.840 this story, not from my perspective because nobody cares about that, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.800 but literally tell it through the eyes and the minds 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.640 of the people who lived in. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.800 You know, you mentioned the trade, Jeff, and you think 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.720 that this trade, you know, least rivals if doesn't surpass 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.800 Ruth to the Yankees. And it's interesting to hear you 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.840 talk about that. Robert doesn't necessarily get there. You know, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.120 the first two those are easy. But Robert's position in 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:16.400 this and my two cents, and I'd be interested in 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.240 yours on this is you're talking about. I think everybody 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.640 agrees that builds the greatest coach in NFL history, and 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:29.760 Tom's the greatest quarterback in NFL history, And clearly central 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.920 to this story, or certainly a part of this story, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.960 is how did you keep those guys together? Can we 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.880 only imagine the work that Robert had to do to 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.800 try to keep those guys on the same page as 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.000 much as you can subject. You know, everybody talks about 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.160 subjugating your ego when you come to work here at 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:49.960 this place, and I don't think that they're saying that 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.680 and it's bs I think they mean it. But to 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.600 be able to mediate and keep these two people who 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.720 are at the very highest of their profession, and to 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.160 do it and succeed on the field. And again, nothing's perfect, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.400 but that's truly a remarkable accomplishment, isn't it. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.920 I think it's Robert's greatest accomplishment as an owner. And 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.480 that's coming from a guy who has a long list 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.520 of great accomplishments. But I think the one this is 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.400 from my perspective, if I was going to identify the 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.440 biggest one, the most important one, it is the work 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.680 he's done behind the scenes to keep Bill and Tom 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.160 together for twenty years. And let me just share a 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.719 couple of quick anecdotes that sort of helped me see that, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.120 and then it informs why I wrote it the way 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.920 I did in The Dynasty. But I remember the first 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.800 time that I went to Robert's New York City apartment. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.720 I had interviewed him and been with him many times 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.560 prior to this, but this was my first time meeting 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.320 him in New York and it was in the midst 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:58.160 of the heated debate about whether Tom was finished in 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.280 New England or whether he'd come back and all that. 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.080 And I remember when I walked in the apartment, the 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.080 first thing you see is you look across the room 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.200 and there's these two beautiful windows that overlook Central Park. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.440 They're big, and in between the windows were two framed 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.559 pictures of the Beatles and they were signed by all 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.880 four Beatles, and they were from the first time that 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.000 the Beatles came to America to perform on the Ed 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.000 Sullivan Show, and they had actually stayed in the building 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.120 that Robert now has his apartment in, and I as 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.960 we sat down on the sofa to talk, I asked 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.240 him about the photos and the Beatles. This led to 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:41.880 a really interesting conversation which helped me make a comparison 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.480 in the book where I compare Belichick and Brady to 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.080 Lennon and McCartney. That whole thought idea came out of 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.200 this meeting in Robert's apartment because what occurred to me 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.880 as he was talking about he started talking about the 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.160 breakup of the Beatles and how it was so premature 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.440 that they were really just at the peak, you know, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.600 when they came apart, and they really came apart because 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.960 Lennon and McCartney couldn't get along anymore. They couldn't stand 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.560 to be on the same stage together any longer. And 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.640 they were the two brightest, biggest stars in music, and 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.280 I just thought, Wow, like that's what's happened in Foxboro. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:31.160 Brady and Belichick are the two biggest, brightest stars in 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.560 the National Football League. They have been for the better 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.800 part of two decades. Robert Kraft has had them on 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.800 his payroll for all that time, and starting in about 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:45.080 twenty ten, when Brady was halfway through his career. But 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.880 if you looked at the actuary charts, he was really 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.280 at the end of his career, especially for a guy 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.280 who had just had reconstructive knee surgery, had missed a 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.400 whole season, and you start looking at guys like Elway 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.240 and Montana and Young and far and you know that 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.640 he's really rounding the clubhouse turn. He's kind of getting 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.520 to the end. But Tom knew he wasn't getting to 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.200 the end, despite what Bill might have thought. And that's 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:16.280 where Robert's relationship with Tom becomes so crucial and pivotal 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.960 in keeping him in New England for an extra ten years, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.640 that extra decade. And I think the relationship that he 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.160 has with Tom and the relationship he has with Bill, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.160 and those are two very different kinds of relationships. I 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.400 wouldn't value one above the other in importance, but they're 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.040 both critical to keeping them married for an extra ten years. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.360 And I'll close with this anecdote. I interviewed Rupert Murdoch 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.600 for this book. He's not quoted in the book. He's 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.440 one of numerous people that I interviewed that aren't actually 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.320 in the book. But Rupert made a really interesting observation 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.320 to me, and he said, you know that he's known 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:58.760 Craft for a long time. And he said, if Robert 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.640 had gone into politics, he may have gone down in 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.520 history as one of the greatest diplomats in the country's history. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:11.119 But instead he went into professional sports. And in my mind, 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.600 this is Rupert talking. In my mind, he is the 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:20.080 greatest diplomat in sports. And exhibit number one is how 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.880 he's kept Brady and Belichick together. That's what Rupert said 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.720 to me. I think when you look at all that 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.080 that's hard to see. It's Brady's always got a ball 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.040 in his hand. Bill's always got a headset on. They're 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.479 on television every week throughout this dynasty. Robert is not seeing, 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.760 you know, the owner is invisible. The stuff that he 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.240 does you can't see on television, but it's every bit 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.159 as important as what Bill and Tom did during that 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:48.879 twenty years. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.640 So, Jeff, do you think that it war on Tom 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.880 over time to be treated like one of fifty three 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.760 despite his accomplishments, Because I always felt like, you know, 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.959 that's part of what made it work is that Tom 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:10.280 allowed that he never brought his ego out publicly. He 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.959 allowed Bill to cheat him that way, so to speak. 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.000 And the fact that Bill did, you know, did that 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.000 wear on him a little bit? 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.720 You think that's a great question, and let me answer 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.760 it by starting with another anecdote. One of the great 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.200 interviews I did for this book was with Randy Moss, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.760 who doesn't do interviews, And there is a great scene 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.240 in this book where Randy Moss first arrives in Foxborough 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:40.280 and again he's a superstar, and when he comes to 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.240 New England in his first meeting team meeting, he's sitting 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.280 next to Dante Stalworth, who's also in his first meeting 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.680 because he and Wes Welker and Moss have all come 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.760 at the same time. And in that meeting, Belichick rips 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.720 into Brady Brady is the king of the NFL at 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.199 this point, I mean, he's the man. And Stalwart and 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.879 Moss are sitting in the back and they're listening to 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:10.040 and watching Belichick basically verbally undressed Tom in front of 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.719 the entire team, and Moss and Stalwarth are looking at 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.800 each other. They're not saying anything, but with their eyes 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.800 they're saying, Holy, you know what, what have we got 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:25.920 ourselves into here? And Moss made the observation is which 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:34.760 was Wow. If Tom Brady is taking this, everybody else 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.320 has got to get in line. And that's the power 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.680 of Tom Brady's This is a strange word to say 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.359 about the king of the sport, but the humility of 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.720 Tom Brady is based in his willingness to absorb and 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.080 endure that kind of thing for years. And what it 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.560 did was it made Bill Belichick's job a lot easier. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.240 Because the veterans, the other stars, the other accomplished players 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.400 that came to New England, the Rodney Harrison's, the Corey Dillons, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.480 the Randy Mosses, the Wes Welkers, the Danny Ammondolas. As 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.399 they come into the program New and they see this 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.959 from Tom, they do get in line because he is 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:24.040 the leader. And I think that that part of Tom's 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.440 contribution has been tremendously understated. So to your question, Brian, 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.160 does it wear on him? Of course it wears on him. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.800 He's human. I mean it would wear on anybody, and 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.679 I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that it 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:43.040 doesn't wear on him. It does. It's hard, brutal at times. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.200 It wears on your whole family. I mean that's the thing. 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.800 Tom is a person. You know, he has a heart, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.399 he has a soul, he has feelings, And I think 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.639 this takes it back to craft. This is where Robert 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:01.000 becomes so important, though, because Robert understands that, and that's 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.520 where the father son kind of relationship that he has 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:08.840 is so important. Because if it wasn't for that, there 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.560 is no way that Tom stays here and endures it 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.240 for that long. And I'll add one more thing to that. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.080 If you want to talk about other great quarterbacks, you 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.720 want to talk about Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning or 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.400 Brett Farv or any of the other ones I mentioned earlier, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.800 here's the question, do you think any of them would 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:35.600 have endured that for ten years? My answer is. I 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.720 don't think any of them would endure it for three years. 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.600 I just think that that's part of what makes the 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:46.520 magic of Belichick and Brady is deeply rooted in personalities. 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.000 And I think Tom is the only quarterback in the game. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.480 And you can go back as many generations as you want. 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.800 I'm not just talking about right now quarterbacks. I'm talking 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.880 about all quarterbacks who could have done what he did 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.159 here for twenty years. I think so much of that 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:02.080 is in his makeup. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:04.960 And so the flip side of that, Jeff, is this, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:09.520 you know, you talk about how accommodating or flexible or 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.159 how humble Tom is and allows himself to be coached 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.119 this way and put up as a you know, as 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.280 a symbol when he does wrong, so that the other 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.639 fifty two can see what's going on. But from Bill's perspective, 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.160 Bill can't change, you know, He's got to remain true 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:31.200 to himself and say, you know, he always says famously, 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.960 I'm going to do what's best for the team, and 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:39.760 he means that. And he needed twelve to buy in 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.440 because that meant everybody else bought in. But if Tom 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:48.400 becomes bigger or his star gets bigger, and his performances 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.240 are bigger, and he becomes you know, it's not just 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:54.360 Tom Brady becomes Tom Brady. Bill's got to wrestle with Well. 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.120 I still need to crack the whip the same way, 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.679 don't I. I mean, that's his genius, isn't it. 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.760 I think, And I don't throw the word genius around 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:06.040 like cavalierly, and I think the word gets used way 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.440 too often on way too many people. But I think 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:14.760 in Bill's case, the word is very fitting. It fits 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.600 on Bill. He can wear that word like a new suit. 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.560 It belongs with Bill. And I think part of the 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.640 reason that Bill is a genius coach is because if 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:31.480 you look at Bill's upbringing, the way he was raised 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.600 by his parents, and not just his father, but also 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.800 his mother, which he does pay tribute to her very 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:43.320 eloquently at his dad's funeral, where you really see the 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.520 way that she was also very critical in Bill's sort 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.120 of nurturing and upbringing to become who he is as 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:56.560 a man. But I think, look, Bill was groomed to 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:01.840 coach basically almost out of the womb. I mean, the 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.040 things that he learned from his dad, and the fact 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.160 that his dad was such a good dad, the way 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:12.040 he included him and brought him along, always had him 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:14.240 at his side, the fact that he was at the 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:18.399 Navy field having a toss with Roger Staubach as a 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:25.679 little boy. He learned to coach by experience, by feel by. 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:30.439