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Speaker 1: Welcome, good afternoon, everybody. Steve Schmidt here joined by Ryan Liza.

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Speaker 1: Ryan is a veteran journalist who has just departed Politico.

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Speaker 1: He made the announcement yesterday and debuted on substack Tellos

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Speaker 1: dot news. I'm going to ask Ryan to explain what

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Speaker 1: Telos is. He can tell us about Aristotle and all

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Speaker 1: the deeper meanings philosophically of the word. Ryan is one

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Speaker 1: of the very best political reporters of the last twenty years. Brilliant,

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Speaker 1: insightful person. Was the chief correspondent at Politico, and he

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Speaker 1: has announced that he will be starting up a new

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Speaker 1: news organization, tell Us, and I'm just going to read

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of it, so you have an idea here,

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Speaker 1: and it says, on waking up some news. I recently

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Speaker 1: left Politico, where I've served as the chief Washington correspondent

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Speaker 1: since twenty nineteen. The main reason their style of political

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Speaker 1: coverage is not meeting the unprecedented moment of democratic peril

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Speaker 1: we are facing. I know that sounds dramatic, but the

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Speaker 1: gap between what is actually happening in Washington and how

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Speaker 1: it was being framed and reported became much too wide.

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Speaker 1: This new publication, tell Us is my modest attempt to

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Speaker 1: do things better. I don't mean to pick on my

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Speaker 1: friends in the media. All the people in institutions on

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Speaker 1: Trump's enemies list are struggling with how to respond. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: it took me too long to realize how bad things are.

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Speaker 1: My moment of extreme clarity came during Trump's assault on

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Speaker 1: the law firm Paul Weiss. It didn't receive much attention

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Speaker 1: at the time, but in his executive order attacking the firm,

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Speaker 1: the President criticized but did not name a Paul Weis's

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Speaker 1: partner who brought a pro bonos suit against individuals alleged

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Speaker 1: to have participated in and here really paid close attention

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Speaker 1: to the tortured euphemisms the events that occurred at or

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Speaker 1: near the United States Capitol on January sixth, twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: That unnamed lawyer is Jeanie Reed. The suit that she

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Speaker 1: helped bring was against the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers, for,

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Speaker 1: as she described it, with justifiable pride in a twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three interview, their role in planning out and carrying

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Speaker 1: the deadly January sixth, twenty twenty one attack on the

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Speaker 1: US Capitol. Paul Weiss was also proud of her work

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Speaker 1: on its website. The firm celebrated her victory at any rate.

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Speaker 1: The Proud Boys, or a white supremacist group that has

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Speaker 1: a penchant for violence. As part of their reign of terror,

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Speaker 1: the Proud Boys targeted Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church and

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Speaker 1: a racist attack on December twelfth, twenty twenty, just three

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Speaker 1: weeks before the January sixth, twenty one insurrection. More than

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Speaker 1: seven hundred Proud Boys to send it on DC for

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Speaker 1: a stop to Steel rally that they extended into a

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Speaker 1: night march, attacking black churches, including Metropolitan Ame, and destroying

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Speaker 1: banners expressing support for the Black Lives Matter movement. Paul Wise,

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Speaker 1: joined by our partners, the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights

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Speaker 1: under Law and the Washington Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights

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Speaker 1: and Urban Affairs, quickly came to the church's aid, or

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Speaker 1: at least they were proud. Here's what you get when

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Speaker 1: you click on that link now, and that link is gone.

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Speaker 1: The original web page is gone. Memory hole deleted from

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Speaker 1: the firm's own accounting of its historic success. So you

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Speaker 1: wrote a story about Paul Weiss disappearing its history. You said,

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Speaker 1: in the opening paragraph of that story that you were

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Speaker 1: leaving Politico because you thought and it said that journalism

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Speaker 1: that is necessary in this moment, it needs to be

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Speaker 1: created from outside the institution that you worked at. And

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Speaker 1: tell me what happened next, you've got a letter from

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Speaker 1: a Politico attorney telling you to take down this story.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Steve, thank you for having me here.

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Speaker 2: This is a real turning of the table's moment. Here

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Speaker 2: I am on with your massive audience. The last time

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Speaker 2: we did this, I was at Politico and you were

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Speaker 2: on my podcast, and I really appreciate, first of all

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Speaker 2: the conversations we had over the last few months in

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Speaker 2: terms of what a great platform substeck is and you've

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Speaker 2: really helped me think through whether going independent was the

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Speaker 2: right thing for me. So thanks and it's good to

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Speaker 2: see you. The last night I wrote a story about this.

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Speaker 2: This morning. Last night I received a couple of phone

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Speaker 2: calls from a number I didn't recognize and they left

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Speaker 2: two message. Two messages. It seemed very urgent. There was

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a technical issue that the person

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Speaker 2: who left the message didn't complete, didn't the first part

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Speaker 2: of their message didn't come through, and so it was garbled,

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Speaker 2: and all I heard was something about a violation and

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Speaker 2: that I needed to take it down immediately, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck are they talking about? Take what down?

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Speaker 2: Twenty minutes later I got a letter explaining that Politico

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Speaker 2: was demanding that an entire eighteen hundred word article that

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Speaker 2: was frankly mostly about criticism of the press, broadly in

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Speaker 2: terms of how it's covering Trump the Trump administration, but

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Speaker 2: more specifically criticism of the Trump administration. That's what that

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Speaker 2: piece is about. That piece is about the Trump administration's

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Speaker 2: unprecedented weaponization of the government and how we as journalists

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Speaker 2: need to wake up to the fact that that is

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Speaker 2: the crisis that is underway in Washington, and we need

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Speaker 2: to devote all of the incredible resources and powers that

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Speaker 2: we have as journalists and as billion dollar media companies

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Speaker 2: covering that, framing it, reporting on it in a way

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Speaker 2: that is useful to the American people to make sense

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Speaker 2: of and at the core of our coverage, highlighting that

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Speaker 2: this just this isn't just some little fight between political

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Speaker 2: combatants that we're used to in American politics, that at

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Speaker 2: the heart of it is the erosion and attack on

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Speaker 2: our democracy. And I know that's very dramatic. I can

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Speaker 2: new people, you know, say, oh, you know you're part

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Speaker 2: of the resistance. Now you're being so so dramatic about

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Speaker 2: all of this stuff. But saying what is actually happening

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Speaker 2: is the most important thing we do as journalists. So

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Speaker 2: that's that was the essay yesterday. And in a small way,

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Speaker 2: I want tell Us to be a model for that

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Speaker 2: kind of reporting. And we have big, big plans, were

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Speaker 2: big plans for expansion. You know, we're starting out very small.

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Speaker 2: I've been covering this town, Steve, as you know, for

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Speaker 2: almost thirty years. And a lot of people in my

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Speaker 2: position who go from kind of the insider newsletter world

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Speaker 2: at Politico, they go and start new insider newsletters. So

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Speaker 2: the last people in my job started punch Bowl News,

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Speaker 2: excellent reporting products on Capitol Hill. Before that, someone started Axios.

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Speaker 2: These are basically companies that are that are guide insider

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Speaker 2: guides to Washington for corporations, lobbyists, other other people on

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Speaker 2: the hill. They generate income by advertising from you know,

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Speaker 2: Blockheed Martin or Google, all the big companies that have

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Speaker 2: business before the government. Nothing wrong with that model, no

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Speaker 2: shade about that. But at this moment. I think what's

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Speaker 2: needed is for people who have been inside the system

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Speaker 2: covering it for as long as I have, helping people

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Speaker 2: outside Washington understand what the hell is going on. And

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Speaker 2: so that's that's what tell Us is going to be about.

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Speaker 2: And I was, i will say, quite disappointed that the

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Speaker 2: reaction from Politico was not great. We're you know, we're

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Speaker 2: really glad to see a lums doing their thing, but

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Speaker 2: was we want you to delete the entire eighteen hundred

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Speaker 2: word article or we might sue you.

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Speaker 1: And your position on that is obviously judging by your response, No,

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Speaker 1: you will not be deleting the article.

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Speaker 2: I mean not to sound like Steve Schmidier, but my

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Speaker 2: position on that is they can go fuck themselves. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to delete an eighteen hundred word article about

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Speaker 2: criticizing Donald Trump because it has a few lines in

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Speaker 2: it that Politico doesn't like. They're putting themselves in the

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Speaker 2: position of going back, frankly for the Trump administration. They're

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Speaker 2: putting themselves in the position of carrying water for the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration by asking me to take down an article

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Speaker 2: that is critical of this president and his administration. So no, and.

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Speaker 1: This is this is I feel at some level that

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Speaker 1: you were one of the few that could achieve with

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Speaker 1: your launch, which was a very interesting, good story, but

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Speaker 1: that now it's become a massive journal lism scandal as

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Speaker 1: you move into your into your second day at Tellus,

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Speaker 1: and this is what this is, and I want everybody

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Speaker 1: to understand this. Who's who's watching. The executive editor of Politico,

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Speaker 1: John Harris, is making a demand right through his lawyers.

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Speaker 1: He's the responsible officer at the organization. Same deal with

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Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth. He's the responsible officer at the Department of Defense.

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Speaker 1: John Harris, it's the responsible officer Politico's executive editor. Editor.

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Speaker 1: Politico is a foreign owned news organization. It's German downed.

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Speaker 1: It's owned by a company named Axel Springer. I'll talk

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Speaker 1: about Axel Springer as we go on. But John Harris

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Speaker 1: has made a demand through the lawyer that you take

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Speaker 1: down a story that savages through facts. In my view,

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Speaker 1: Paul Weiss a massive law firm that managing partner Brad

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Speaker 1: Karp has capitulated to Donald Trump, bent de knee and

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Speaker 1: has erased a is you document the firm's history in

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Speaker 1: a stalinesque purge of its legacy. Of its history and

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Speaker 1: what makes it worse for Paul Weiss is this was

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Speaker 1: the firm that allowed Jews and Gentiles to practice together.

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Speaker 1: So this was a firm. This was a firm steeped

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Speaker 1: in history. It's a Politico owned by actual singer who

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Speaker 1: started a news organization and divided Berlin that was committed

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Speaker 1: to democracy, has demanded with its billion dollar perse that

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Speaker 1: you Ryan liz On Substack must delete what you wrote.

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Speaker 1: Lest ub sued by Politico, and they're a news organization

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Speaker 1: that will be celebrating itself this weekend at the White

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Speaker 1: House Correspondence Center. Do I have that right?

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Speaker 2: That's right. The core irony here is that the article

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Speaker 2: was about the Trump administration pressuring Paul Weiss into deleting

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Speaker 2: some of its proudest moments in its history from its

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Speaker 2: own website, and pressuring its top partners from rewriting their

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Speaker 2: own biographies to delete their proudest achievements, including this poor

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Speaker 2: woman Ree who was a prosecutor at the Justice Department

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Speaker 2: and helped Muller uh put away in prison some uh

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Speaker 2: top Trump campaign officials. That's all gone now from Paul

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Speaker 2: Weiss's website. That was the original reporting that I did

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Speaker 2: in that piece. They want, you know, they want the

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Speaker 2: whole piece to be deleted. And so the irony here,

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Speaker 2: if you can call it, that of asking a journalist

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Speaker 2: to delete reporting about the Trump administration asking a law

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Speaker 2: firm to delete reporting is rather rich and and and Steve,

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Speaker 2: I want to you know, I wrote this response today,

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Speaker 2: laying this all out, and I just want to I

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Speaker 2: want to read Axel Springer's own their own mission statement,

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Speaker 2: which I always thought was rather impressive, and it made

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Speaker 2: me very proud when I knew that this was the

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Speaker 2: mission statement of acxual Springer to work there. At Axel Springer,

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Speaker 2: freedom is not just a value, it is our guiding principle.

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Speaker 2: We stand firm in its defense, recognizing that freedom is

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Speaker 2: the catalyst for progress in business, in society, and especially

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Speaker 2: in journalism. And so I asked my friends at Politico,

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Speaker 2: Mattia Staffner, John Harris Harris, Jonathan Greenberger to read that

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Speaker 2: very very carefully, to read their own mission statements about

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Speaker 2: what the company means, and to think very carefully if

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Speaker 2: they want to go down this road of trying to

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Speaker 2: censor a journalist because of a few lines in the

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Speaker 2: piece that they found overly critical and they allege violate

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Speaker 2: some boilerplate language in a contract about non disparagement.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me add on about actual Springer. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if during your career at Politica you ever

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to go to the actual Springer building

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Speaker 1: in Berlin.

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Speaker 2: I never did heard a lot about it, so people

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Speaker 2: will probably be fascinated about the stories to used to

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Speaker 2: tell it.

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Speaker 1: So, the actual Springer building in Berlin is truly one

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Speaker 1: of the most extraordinary buildings I've ever entered, and it

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Speaker 1: is a stunning building. I have never, and I mean

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Speaker 1: ever seen a newsroom the likes of the actual Springer

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Speaker 1: set up. But the building literally through the lobby is

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Speaker 1: where the Berlin Wall ran. An actual Spring built this

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Speaker 1: building up against the Berlin Wall. And everybody out there

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Speaker 1: who has a lack of faith about what happens in

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Speaker 1: the end, this is a story about faith. Axel Springer

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Speaker 1: built his building against the Berlin Wall because he believed

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Speaker 1: one day that wall would come down and his building

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Speaker 1: would be at the center of Berlin, which it most

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Speaker 1: certainly is. And so if you go up to Matthias

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Speaker 1: Doffner's office the top floor, you could see the Berlin

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Speaker 1: Wall segment signed by Ronald Reagan, by President Bush forty

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Speaker 1: one by Mikhail Gorbaschoff. And so this organization is not

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Speaker 1: neutral on the great question of the day about democracy,

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Speaker 1: at least in Germany. Maybe they are indifferent about it

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Speaker 1: in the United States because Matthia Stoppner is not an American,

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Speaker 1: he is an Atlanticist. But maybe all of the subscription

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Speaker 1: money that Politico generates from the federal government, which was

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Speaker 1: not covered accurately by most of the media when that

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Speaker 1: story came out, has changed his mind. But John Harris

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Speaker 1: and Jonathan Greenberger are not Germans. They are Americans. And

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Speaker 1: John Harris, as the editor of Politico, should have a

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Speaker 1: passing familiarity with the First Amendment. And I want to

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Speaker 1: say to all of you who are listening to this

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Speaker 1: subscribe right now, to tell us hit the button, follow

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Speaker 1: and support Ryan's journalism, because we're going to need more

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Speaker 1: of it to get to get through this. There is

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Speaker 1: another journalist that I helped introduce on substack named tarapoonm Mary,

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Speaker 1: also a political writer, and Tara wrote a story on

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Speaker 1: hers The Red Letter, and I urge everybody to subscribe

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Speaker 1: to The Red Letter. The details the meeting between Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump and Laura Lomer in the White House. And it's

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Speaker 1: a story where tar palm Aery interviews Laura Lumer and

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Speaker 1: approaches it from the perspective of this thirty one year

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Speaker 1: old conspiracy theorist is one of the most powerful people

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Speaker 1: in the country. She has a pass at the White

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Speaker 1: House that that comes through Donald Trump. She walked into

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Speaker 1: the Oval Office with a with a folder full of conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: and she got half the National Security Council staff fired.

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Speaker 1: Now I read the New York Times this morning, and

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Speaker 1: I find their coverage to be Walter Duranty like, But

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Speaker 1: what the New York Times coverage talks about this morning

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Speaker 1: is the fact that, well, there may be some cracks

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Speaker 1: in the well oiled Trump machine running the White House,

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Speaker 1: with the evidence being Pete Hegsath, and you really can't

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Speaker 1: paper it anymore. And I'm like, wait a second. This

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Speaker 1: is a story that's telling me that Susie Wiles is

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Speaker 1: a competent chief of staff and the Trump White House

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Speaker 1: is a well oiled machine, and that everything is working

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Speaker 1: there the way it ought to be. And I know

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Speaker 1: that's not true. I know that New York Times reporter

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Speaker 1: is writing that to gain favor from whomever his anonymous

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Speaker 1: sources are, which is the currency of the business to

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Speaker 1: please his editors. But what they're reporting is the sun

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Speaker 1: is rising in the west and suttying in the east.

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Speaker 1: It's not true. Tara palm Aery understands that when Laura

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Speaker 1: Lumer goes into the Oval office, it's a significant event

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Speaker 1: that she's a powerful person, and she interviews her. But

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Speaker 1: the idea that the Trump White House functions with any

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Speaker 1: degree of normalcy is fiction. It's a lie. It's not true.

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Speaker 1: And so I just think that in this moment, I

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Speaker 1: look at the two things. The Paper of Record reports

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Speaker 1: things that're just objectively not true in the same way

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Speaker 1: that they did with regarding Stalin in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine. No famineacy here. And then you report about

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Speaker 1: Paul Weiss, major law firm, abdicating its fiduciary responsibility to

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Speaker 1: the idea of the rule of law. The whole thing.

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Speaker 1: You get a letter from people that call themselves journalists.

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Speaker 1: They say, you better take this down or else we'll

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Speaker 1: sue you. A news organization that would then be doing

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Speaker 1: the bidding of the billion dollar law firm which capitulated

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Speaker 1: to Trump and to Trump, Honest to Goddess, the most

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Speaker 1: astonishing correspondence in thirty years of doing this I've ever

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Speaker 1: seen between any news organization and a journalist that worked

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Speaker 1: in the news organization. And my question, I'm looking right

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Speaker 1: into carriage, John Harris. If you think that you do

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Speaker 1: not have to answer for this, if you're that arrogant,

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking Trump level arrogance, and I know, John Harris,

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Speaker 1: is that arrogan, You don't have to comment on it.

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Speaker 1: You have to answer for this letter, John Harris. This

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Speaker 1: is a vital moment. And so like I just want

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Speaker 1: to say, as you get going and you begin you

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Speaker 1: were reporting, and thank god you're at it, what do

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Speaker 1: we look forward to from next?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What area are you going to start to go down

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Speaker 1: to when you look at the weaponization right of government

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Speaker 1: against people? Like where are you drawn to look?

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Speaker 2: I say a couple of things. I just want to

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Speaker 2: comment on a couple of things you said, Steve. I

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Speaker 2: should point out that the final line of that letter

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Speaker 2: last night was we reserve all rights, an obvious lawyer

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Speaker 2: language of you know, we may take the next step

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Speaker 2: and sue you. Just so your viewers are clear that

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Speaker 2: there was not the explicit we are going to sue

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Speaker 2: you if you do X, Y, Y, and z. It's

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Speaker 2: it's it's all. You know what it's like.

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Speaker 1: It is a news organization.

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Speaker 2: Just trying to say, a.

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Speaker 1: Major national news organization an ambiguously send a letter of

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Speaker 1: intimidation to an American journalist who is on the front

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Speaker 1: line of covering the story of Trump and timmidation. And

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Speaker 1: so they sent you a letter trying to intimidate you

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Speaker 1: to pull down a story documenting intimidation. I find that

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Speaker 1: very alarming.

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Speaker 2: It's alarming, and it's also just stupid, because you know,

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Speaker 2: they really think I was going to delete the article.

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Speaker 2: They didn't think that was going to raise a few

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Speaker 2: questions and you know, create a controversy. So my view

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Speaker 2: of this is, I'm hoping that this was a big mistake,

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Speaker 2: a big must misunderstanding. Sometimes in these big companies, people

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Speaker 2: on the corporate side do things without checking and do

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Speaker 2: things that violate the news values of the institution. And

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Speaker 2: I am hoping that cooler heads prevail Steve and that

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Speaker 2: my friends over there realized this was a mistake and

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Speaker 2: apologize and withdraw that threat. I will tell your listeners

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Speaker 2: are viewers here or something else that's slightly awkward in

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Speaker 2: all this, I'm scheduled on Saturday to be Politico's guest

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Speaker 2: at the White House Correspondence dinner. I'm scheduled to go

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Speaker 2: with them. They invited me to their pre party and.

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Speaker 1: To the you should wear a white talks in protests

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Speaker 1: like a full white talk.

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Speaker 2: So I'm my view is that poller heads will prevail

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Speaker 2: and by this weekend there will be an apology and

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Speaker 2: we will be able to put this U behind us,

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Speaker 2: because I don't think any news organization wants to be

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Speaker 2: in the position, when they really think about what they're

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Speaker 2: doing here, of censoring a journalist and demanding him that

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Speaker 2: he memory hole an article about the Trump administration pressuring

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Speaker 2: a law firm to memory hold their own history. I

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Speaker 2: don't think they want to erase my very modern attempt

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Speaker 2: to make a living through tell Us and the article

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Speaker 2: that introduced that. I don't think that they, if they

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Speaker 2: really think about it, that that's what they want. But

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Speaker 2: that is their official position as we sit here right now.

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Speaker 2: To answer your other question, look, I you know, as

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Speaker 2: you laid out, reading very generously, reading from the piece

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Speaker 2: I wrote yesterday, Steve to me, the core issue of

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Speaker 2: what's going on in Washington. The crisis is an administration

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Speaker 2: that is weaponizing the state against the American people. And

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds scary and dramatic to people, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes it needs to be said as clearly as that

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Speaker 2: so people understand what's going on. And you know, we

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Speaker 2: can sit here and rattle off the fifty different examples

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Speaker 2: that we've seen over the last few months. That's the story.

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Speaker 2: And there's a lot of frankly, bullshit that goes on

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Speaker 2: in Washington that gets far too much attention at the

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Speaker 2: expense of that or story. That's it that when we

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Speaker 2: talk about the erosion of democracy, that is like where

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Speaker 2: the rubber hits the road. That is how democracy is

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Speaker 2: being eroded right we we we have a president that

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Speaker 2: is using every every tool of the federal government. He

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Speaker 2: can get his hand on every lever, all of these machine,

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Speaker 2: all this chenery that he didn't understand how it worked

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Speaker 2: the first time around. He's got his hands on all

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Speaker 2: of it, and he's using it to target the press,

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Speaker 2: to target law firms, to target universities, to target immigrants,

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Speaker 2: to target, frankly, all of the institutions and people that

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Speaker 2: are the hardest to defend. Who wants to defend journalists?

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Speaker 2: They're not popular. Who wants to defend you know, elite

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Speaker 2: Washington law firms. Nobody. Who wants to defend you know,

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Speaker 2: Ivy League schools, They're not popular. So there is a

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Speaker 2: sort of political sophistication to this targeting in that, as

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Speaker 2: always with regimes like this, you go after people in

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Speaker 2: institutions that are difficult to defend. So that's you know,

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Speaker 2: I call the publication tell Us, which is the Greek

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Speaker 2: worry excuse me, it's the Greek word for aim, mission,

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Speaker 2: And you know it's a little precious, but you know,

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Speaker 2: I wanted something that reminded me as a journalist why

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Speaker 2: I got into this business in the first place, and

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Speaker 2: reminded me that journalism should when it's when we're practicing

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Speaker 2: it at our best, it should be mission oriented. And

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Speaker 2: you know, that's how I like to describe tell Us

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Speaker 2: is mission oriented journalism. And we're going to write about

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Speaker 2: the weaponization of government. I have a big piece coming

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Speaker 2: this little drama today and yesterday has delayed. I think

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Speaker 2: it'll be out now next Tuesday. I have a nine

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Speaker 2: thousand word investigation coming Steve on this subject that I

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Speaker 2: think helps explain some of the roots of what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing in Washington, So everyone should look out for that,

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Speaker 2: and I have a couple of other pieces on the

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Speaker 2: subject lined up in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 1: Tell Us is going to be an extraordinary addition to

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Speaker 1: the canon of the media of this era when we

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Speaker 1: look back on it, when fearless people stood up and

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Speaker 1: told the American people the truth about what was happening.

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Speaker 1: And Ryan Liza is one of those people. And I

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Speaker 1: urge everybody who's listening. You can find Ryan on substack

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Speaker 1: at Tellos. This is a most significant time in the

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Speaker 1: country's history. And I'm just going to say something real

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Speaker 1: quick and just respond to something that you said when

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Speaker 1: you wrote and you were a little hard on yourself,

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Speaker 1: and you say, well, I should have seen this coming

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Speaker 1: a little bit sooner. And I don't think you should

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Speaker 1: be hard on yourself in that way. And I and

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Speaker 1: I talk about this a lot, because nobody saw this

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Speaker 1: coming earlier than me. And and I don't judge people,

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Speaker 1: because people respond to danger in different ways in different moments.

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Speaker 1: But but I know I was right about a couple

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Speaker 1: of things, and I want to mention two of them

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Speaker 1: right now as we as we go forward, when Seawn

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Speaker 1: Spicer walked out on inauguration Day, I said, uhh, that's

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Speaker 1: a big deal because that is a lie about authority,

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Speaker 1: not a lie about a blowjob. When Bill Clinton lies

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Speaker 1: about a blowjob, he does that because he's embarrassed. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump made Shawn Spicer go out there and say so

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Speaker 1: something that was absurd and untrue because he was testing

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Speaker 1: and probing a proposition eight years ago. And now we're

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Speaker 1: down the river, and the proposition is is what's true

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Speaker 1: is what the leader says is true. And George Orwell

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Speaker 1: tried to tell us about this in nineteen eighty four

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Speaker 1: as he gets to the torture scene at the end

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Speaker 1: where Winston being tortured by the party official, says, but

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Speaker 1: you're only holding four fingers up, and the party official says,

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Speaker 1: it could be four, or it could be three, or

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Speaker 1: it could be whatever the party tells you it is.

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Speaker 1: And so lies of authority are what started all of

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Speaker 1: this in the first instant, and so as time has

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Speaker 1: gone on, the encroachments, the lies, the us is, the

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Speaker 1: rule flouting, all of it has accumulated into an insanity

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Speaker 1: that is fully revealed now right, the Eastern message where

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Speaker 1: immigrants are scapegoaded, where the Lougan press, as Hitler would

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Speaker 1: have said, the lying press is attacked. All of it

433
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: is perfectly obvious. And so Sebastian Gorka, sitting in the

434
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: White House said, and this applies to me. He said,

435
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: if you defend a terrorist, mister Garcia, a father from

436
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: Maryland who is picking up his autistic son from being

437
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: imprisoned in an El Salvador and Gulag, you are a terrorist.

438
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: And as a terrorist, you can be sent to the

439
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: Al Salvador and Gulag for protesting this of mister Garcia,

440
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: to the googleg. And Sebastian Gorka is not only a Nazi,

441
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: and he wore a Nazi medallion, a Hungarian fascist badge

442
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: to the first inauguration the Hungarian Nazi Party Elon Musks

443
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: Nazi salute was real, That's what it was. And so

444
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: all of these people who have said these things, I

445
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: don't have any evidence, And no one at the New

446
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: York Times has ever had any evidence that they don't

447
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: mean it. Why do you think so many reporters over

448
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: and over again, when these people have said we mean this,

449
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: have decided that it's necessary to have let's say Scott

450
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: Jennings on CNN to interpret it and say, no, he

451
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: actually means the exact opposite. Where does that inclination come from?

452
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: And where did journalism break that these panels which exists

453
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: primarily to refute what you just heard, Where did this

454
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: come from?

455
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: Look, this is a I think this is something that

456
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: will resonate with you. With you. Steve, a friend of mine,

457
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: his his analogy. He was he was in Iraq, and

458
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: he was in uh saw a lot of bad ship

459
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: in Iraq and saw cycles of his comrades who got

460
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: killed replaced by, you know, new soldiers. And so he

461
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: got to watch up close the reaction of new soldiers

462
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: because there was so much churn in his platoon, encountering

463
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: the horrors of close up combat for the first time.

464
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: And what he realized was he saw this again and again,

465
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: was the first time that some of these soldiers witnessed

466
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: being stot at, explosions, the full horrors of war for

467
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: the first time. A common reaction was to deny that

468
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: it was happening at all. It always stuck with me

469
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: because I always thought that was such a human instinct

470
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: when faced with an existential threat, to just not be

471
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 2: able to wrap your head around the fact that what's

472
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: happening is actually happening. And he used to tell the

473
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: story in different circumstances to explain, you know, sometimes what's

474
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 2: happening is actually happening. And that's the psychology I think

475
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: has taken hold in a lot of law firms, a

476
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: lot of newsrooms, a lot of universities. There's a denial

477
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: about what's going on because it's so uncomfortable. Once you

478
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 2: acknowledge the truth here, and getting over for that denial

479
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: and realizing what's happening is actually happening is the kind

480
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: of important first step to wake up as a as

481
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: a I think as a journalist covering Washington, to be

482
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: clear eyed about that and not be concerned with having

483
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: an argument from from both sides when you when what

484
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: you really want to be concerned with is being intellectually honest.

485
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: Intellectual honesty should be our guide, and that's not it's

486
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: not taught when you sort of come up as a

487
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: political reporter. A lot of people get into political reporting

488
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: because they like politics, They like ad campaigns and polling,

489
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: and you know, do you know this world better than anyone? Steve?

490
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: You love that love that world. They like the combats

491
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: of two political campaigns, and I love that stuff too,

492
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: I hope. But at some point tell us it gets

493
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: back to just good old fashioned political reporting and we

494
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: can talk about you know, polling and ads and the

495
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: primaries and the campaigns. But right now there is a

496
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: crisis and it needs to be described clearly. That's the

497
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: first step for people solving it. And it needs to

498
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: be framed in a way that can help people do

499
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: something about it rather than just throw their hands up

500
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: because everything is reported as an intriguing tennis match between

501
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: two you know, political combatants. So I I.

502
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: Think, I mean, I think, you know, talking about twenty

503
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: twenty eight, right, you know, to this end right politically,

504
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: GREGA Whitmer maybe a great governor of Michigan. I honestly,

505
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. I don't I don't

506
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: live in Michigan. I know she ran on fixing the roads.

507
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: People seem to like her, but but under fire and

508
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: she was in a way in the in the Oval office. Trump,

509
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: the president is announcing retributions in the Oval office, and

510
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer right on the spot. You have to you

511
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: have to react. There's no staff, right this is this

512
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: is Gretchen Whitmer, the leader. It's a moment of moment

513
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: of testing. I've had a couple of these in my life.

514
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: I jumped off a boat to save someone in the

515
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Hudson River. I walked into a fire. You have to

516
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: make decisions, right, That was That was Gretchen Whitmer's decision.

517
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hide behind my blue folder. Right. Jake Tapper

518
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: and Alex Thompson are writing a book about the Democratic

519
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: cover up of Joe Biden's of Joe Biden's condition, and

520
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: Tim Waltz goes on and the question is what what

521
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: say you? Right? Why? Why did Trump win? And it's

522
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: just completely incoherent. So I think, right, the threshold question

523
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: you want to run for president? Why did Trump win?

524
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: To every Democrat? It's a thirty second answer requires honesty,

525
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: what's the nature of the threat? Right? Requires coherence and

526
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about it? And it's

527
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:33,439
Speaker 1: like I had on Congressman Jake auchinloss Auckincloss last week,

528
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: why isn't he a top tier presidential candidate? Right? You know,

529
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: by by on the list, he didn't need to check

530
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: with fifty advisors. It's completely coherent, absolutely has a vision.

531
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: I said, if you were running for president, actually, I say,

532
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: if you were president, what would you do here? And

533
00:38:52,560 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: the answers were extraordinarily compelling to me when you look

534
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: at these candidates in twenty twenty eight, to me, what

535
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about is the absolute threshold table stakes issue

536
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: is can you answer the first question of the campaign?

537
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: And so far you've had you've had three candidates that

538
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: are top tier in my in my estimation, and I

539
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: feel like I got a lot of experience in it,

540
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: commit Harry Carey in the in the in the preliminary

541
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: stage here. So as you looked at twenty twenty eight,

542
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: I think you're one of the most astute observers of

543
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: this stuff that there is, like, like, what do you

544
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: see as kind of the threshold table stakes? So I

545
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: don't think any of these people that are on the

546
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: kind of mainstream corporate media lists right now of these

547
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: are the front runners, right or are the front runners?

548
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: None of them with the exception of AOC, who will

549
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: be who will be a big factor in the in

550
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: the race?

551
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. It's going to be it's

552
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: going to be going to be wide, it's going to

553
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: be wide open. There are going to be people who

554
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: capture the imagination of a very frustrated, disappointed Democratic Party

555
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: base right now, who come out of nowhere, and that

556
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: you know, that happens, That happens anyway, That happens every cycle.

557
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: I remember two thousand and four when Howard and nobody

558
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: knew who he was and he became the main challenger

559
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: to the establishment candidate John Carrey. That that's going to happen.

560
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: I will say this, and I'm like, I'm a journalist

561
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: that the truth is what matters the most to me

562
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: in reporting. I will certainly acknowledge in politics that the

563
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: Democratic candidates will have to make judgments about how much

564
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: what we're talking about here and what we're concerned about here,

565
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: how much politically that how to talk about that politically.

566
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example that I've been thinking about recently.

567
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: There will be a coordinated effort to get by by

568
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: Trump allies in the midterm elections next year, to get

569
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 2: every Democratic candidate on record about whether they want Trump

570
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: impeached or not. The idea behind that will be to

571
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: argue that if you give Democrats control of the House

572
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: and or Senate, they'll waste their time with investigations and

573
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: impeachment of Donald Trump. I just putting on my political

574
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: hat on. I think that's a tough question. That's a

575
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: tough question for Democrats to answer. I think there are

576
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: plenty of things Democrats could point to to say this

577
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: man should be impeached. This is what the this is

578
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: what the impeachment clause was meant for. I don't know,

579
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: one way or another if that's good politics for them.

580
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: And so that's that's on my mind a little bit, Steve,

581
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: because I think it helps, it will help determine how

582
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: some of these Democratic primary candidates in twenty twenty eight

583
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: talk about what we're talking about right now and articulate

584
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: in a clear way, this is the problem, this is

585
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: the danger, but we can do something about it. And

586
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: by the way, it's not the only problem, addressing you know,

587
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: the everyday issues that people care about. You know, I

588
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: do think that's always the problem with leaders like Trump.

589
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: Look at Hungary, look at any country that's had democratic backsliding.

590
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: With an authoritarian or a want to be authoritarian, you

591
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: can do a lot of shit in power. If you

592
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 2: keep the trains running on time, if you keep inflation

593
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: in check, if you have the economy humming along. A

594
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: lot of voters just look back at the first four

595
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: years of the Trump administration and they didn't give a

596
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: shit about what Sean Spicer said on the first day

597
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: about the crowd size and how that was a harbinger

598
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: of all the harhursts to come. They looked back at it, right,

599
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: and they thought, oh, yeah, well, the economy was a

600
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: little bit better back then. You know, Joe Biden is

601
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: barely seems alive, don't much like his replacement. Let's let's

602
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: let's give Trump a shot. Right. There were a sliver

603
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: of people who decided the election who thought who thought that?

604
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 2: And so I do think that Trump's in a different

605
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 2: situation right now in terms of his recklessness when it

606
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: comes to things like like like the economy. But we

607
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: should never underestimate the what authoritarians in otherwise heace with

608
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: peace and prosperity, what they can get away with, and

609
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: how you have to address both things.

610
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: Well, one thing that is certainly to be true in

611
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: this coming election cycle is the economy is going to

612
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: be in a terrible mass that.

613
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that that's what is different. I mean, he's

614
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 2: wrecking He's wrecking the economy. So in some sense, he's

615
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: it's not the the the Orbune model. Who you know,

616
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,479
Speaker 2: when he came into power, he did a few things

617
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: that people appreciated, right, that allowed him to take advantage

618
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: of and take and take control things. Putin's the same story,

619
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean, right, like, you don't you can't. You can't fully,

620
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: you can't fully get to the Putent level without keeping

621
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 2: your eye on, uh, making sure people's basic necessities are

622
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: are taken care of. Right. There's a lot of like

623
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: wanna be dictators who don't get to that point because

624
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: they didn't they didn't take care of the basics that

625
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: that's sort of my my point. But what you're what

626
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 2: you're about to say, Steve, is Trump's gonna wreck the economy.

627
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, I mean he is. Listen. I used to

628
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: do a fair amount of skydiving. And when you pull

629
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: the ripcord, right, you don't go up, right. I know that.

630
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: Like in the video it looks like the parachute goes

631
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: up when you pull the when you pull the rip port,

632
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: you're still falling down, right. So having an argument about

633
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in the in the economy is

634
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: like having an argument with somebody who's telling you you're

635
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: going up while you're going down. Right, gravity does it

636
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: does its thing. When you look at the totality of this,

637
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: of this moment, the really the benefit. The number one

638
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: thing that Donald Trump has going for him is the

639
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: Democratic leadership of the United States Senate, right. And so

640
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, and it's not we're not we're not talking

641
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: about Democrats, but but no serious in my view, opposition

642
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: party that has a meeting with forty eight people in it,

643
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: whatever forty six, however many are in the Democratic Caucus

644
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: that goes into a meeting and emerges from it Chuck

645
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: Schumer is our guy, will follow him everywhere, is just

646
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: not serious. And I think that one of the dynamics

647
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: you're seeing out in the country is that the opposition

648
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: movement is not controlled by the Democratic National Committee. In fact,

649
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: it's a in fact, it's a reaction to the Democratic

650
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: National Committee against the Democratic leadership in many ways, just

651
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: as it is against the Trump administration. Right. And so

652
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: there is no opposition in Washington. And I just wonder

653
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: when you talk to Democrats in Washington if they see

654
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: it that way, if they appreciate the degree to which

655
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: they are held in contempt right by their Democratic constituents

656
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: and in all over the country.

657
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: You know, look, I wouldn't say they all, they all do.

658
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of Most Democrats in

659
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: Congress are in comfortable seats with no fear of losing

660
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 2: right Senate, Senate, in House. And so when you get

661
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: to that level of comforment comfort, your life in Washington

662
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 2: becomes about Washington. Not to say they don't do things

663
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: for the constituents, but they don't have those kind of

664
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 2: they're not as sensitive to political pressures back home anymore.

665
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: And so, but on the other hand, if you're not aware,

666
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: as just like a smart elite in Washington who's been

667
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 2: paying attention for the last decade, if you're not aware

668
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 2: of the absolute uprising against elites in both parties and

669
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 2: against uh institutions, you're you know, you're you're you're just

670
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: sort of sleepwalking through what's going on in America. And

671
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: so I think even the most candidates in the in

672
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 2: the safest districts or in the Senators who just live

673
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: in the in the in the Washington bubble, excuse me,

674
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: Washington bubble, are at least dimly aware that there's a

675
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: populist convulsions that have been rocking the country for a

676
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: long time now, and a long time you know, in

677
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 2: in an economy that hasn't been let's just say, an

678
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: economy that could be a lot worse, and you know,

679
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: when it gets a lot worse, imagine what it's going

680
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: to be like in both parties.

681
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: That's what That's what I think Democrats are missing, and

682
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: that's why I'm so intrigued by the David hog project, right,

683
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: and he can get a lot of these guys out.

684
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing that he's doing. But

685
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, look, you have a you have a political

686
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: party that I think looks at the moment and says

687
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna benefit because of all of the things that

688
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: Trump is doing and the rejection of the voters to that.

689
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: And I think that's true. There won't be any safe

690
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: seats or very few in twenty twenty six, right, but

691
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of Democratic incumbents that lose

692
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: in primaries. And I hope to ordinary people, right that

693
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: are out there that can go and revert to some

694
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: common sense, to the idea that you have to embrace

695
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: disagreement and sit and work some things out. Eventually after

696
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: we after we stop this, I'll give you a perfect example,

697
00:49:53,160 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: like in in Iowa, Joanie ernst so journey ernst Ran

698
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: as a farmer, famous ad talking about I castrate the

699
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: hogs on the farm. I'm gonna go to Washington and

700
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: cut spending, which obviously she didn't do. What she did

701
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: do is go to Washington, get a glad makeover, and

702
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: then bang the chief lobbyist of the United States Navy,

703
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: a two store admiral. She was banging him, and she

704
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: was banging the chief lobbyist of the Air Force, a

705
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 1: two store general. And both those two store officers were

706
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,959
Speaker 1: demoted right because of the inappropriate relationship with the United

707
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: States Center. They were disciplined right by their military branches. Right.

708
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: This has all been reported in the news. So somebody

709
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: needs to go talk to Iowa voters in English, right

710
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: and says this lady screwed every one of you over,

711
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: so represent you. Right on Tuesday night, she's banging the

712
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: Air Force at general. Right on Wednesday night, she's got

713
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: the Navy admiral over and the rest of the week

714
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: she's doing whatever Trump to her to do.

715
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm not familiar with this. Is this is it

716
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: your view that this is what was partly.

717
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: This is a woman. This is a woman who put

718
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: the words sexual assault survivor right as the predicate to

719
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 1: her US sentence service. She ran as a farmer, then

720
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: during the Me Too movement she got on board I'm

721
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: a sexual assault survivor, right, And so all through the

722
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: Trump presidency she distanced herself well, embracing every element of it.

723
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: But I'm a sexual assault survivor, so no, I'm not

724
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: for Trump and all of these things, right, And she's

725
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: danced a game. So this story came out immediate after

726
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: she votes as the deciding vote to confirm Pete Hegseth.

727
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: So this is a combat veteran who's banging two flag

728
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: officers who are disciplined by it. Was blackmailed over it,

729
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: voted for hag Seth. And now we have this drunk

730
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: secretary of Defense, completely unfit, giving away the war plans

731
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: during active military operations.

732
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: So I know how to make when you put it

733
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: all like that, it does sound pretty.

734
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: Bad, right, So I know how to run that ad

735
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: campaign in Iowa. Right, I'll translate it from my native

736
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: New Jersey right to Iowa. But the campaigns ahead with

737
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: these people because they're all scumbacks everyone, right, they need

738
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 1: to go and yeah, someone just said it's it's bad.

739
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 1: The question on impeachment to me is this. If I

740
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: was giving advice to.

741
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: Say, how would you advise Democrats to deal with that?

742
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: I would say, you give me sixty seven senators. He's

743
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: gone right right, lean into it. Say but I would

744
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 1: go explicitly to the American people and say, reject the labels,

745
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: right of this a red state, this a blue state,

746
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: They're all American states, right, we need to accumulate the

747
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: requisite number of votes to remove people from power who

748
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: are unfit and dangerous. So there are three that come

749
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: to mind. I wouldn't run on impeaching Trump, but I

750
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: might think about running on impeaching Pam BONDI on impeaching Christy,

751
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: No on impeaching Peate Heseth and putting it out there, right,

752
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: and so people who are more What I think today

753
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: is I'm I'm an Istanbul today. And I was talking

754
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: to a to a gentleman earlier today about this and

755
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: about Elon Musk. Elon Musk's fade is sealed. I don't

756
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: know if he appreciates this, but we will win this

757
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 1: fight decide that is for American democracy. We're not Russia.

758
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: We have a two hundred and fifty year old tradition

759
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: of democracy. Uh in the US Constitution. It's not going

760
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: to go up and smoke in in one hundred in

761
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: one hundred days. But to the point about what's happened,

762
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: there are people that are making a run at the

763
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: Constitution with a knife in their hand dipped in poison.

764
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: They're coming to kill it and burn it. And it's underway,

765
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: we're watching it. Elon Musk is a Nazi. And the

766
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: way that I know that is the three Nazi salutes

767
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: he gave within three hours of the inauguration. And then

768
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,959
Speaker 1: I looked for further clues. Right, does he have any

769
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: relatives who were Nazis?

770
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: Oh?

771
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: He does. Right, his grandparents were Canadian Nazis and they

772
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: moved to South Africa because the Reich was reduced to ashes,

773
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: which is how the Maga movement will end up on

774
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: the ash heap of history. That being said, the people

775
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: who made the run and they're going to lose their companies, right,

776
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: Meta will be broken up with anti trust actions. Google.

777
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: All of these big techolic arcs will pay the price,

778
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: but none more so than Musk, who will not go

779
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: to Mars, who will not be part of going to Mars,

780
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: who will not be a defense contractor, and whose car

781
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: company will go broke. And the best part about it

782
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: is it's going to go broke with the Chinese electric

783
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,919
Speaker 1: car company putting it out of business. And I never

784
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: thought that I would buy a Chinese electric car. But

785
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: I also never thought I'd be a Jewish Democrat living

786
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: in Toronto part time. So anything is possible. But Elon Musk,

787
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, and all of these people, and I act

788
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 1: as congressman, I can class about this. And you know,

789
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: whether it's any one of a dozen of different names

790
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: that you could give, you kind of say, well, has

791
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: any thought been given to that you're going to be

792
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: testifying before Democratic Congress in eighteen months right under oath? Right?

793
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: You think it's going to all be wrapped up by then,

794
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: And it's not going to be And so right, this

795
00:56:51,280 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: is a time where people are digging in. Uh. That

796
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: was my first anti Semitic comment. And someone tell me

797
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 1: you were a Jewish Republican, Steve, Now, I was a

798
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: Catholic Republican. Now I'm a Jewish Democrat.

799
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: Steve, I've got to uh, I've got the uh, I've

800
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: got to. I can't keep Don Lemon waiting, so I've

801
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: gotta I've gotta jacket one so that we gotta So

802
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: let's wrap.

803
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: Up right, So we want to we want to get going.

804
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: You gotta go to Don Lemon. What I was saying

805
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: is hell of a fight ahead. And journalism, real journalism,

806
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: journalism that tells you things that bad people are doing

807
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know about the bad things

808
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: they're doing. That's journalists right, holding the public to given

809
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: the public the information they need to hold these people

810
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: to account. That's journalism. And that's why all of you

811
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: should be following. Ryan Lizza tell us big investigative report

812
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: coming out next Tuesday. Ryan said, and.

813
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 2: You're gonna love this piece, Steve, If you're gonna love it,

814
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 2: I've been working on for a while. It's part memoir,

815
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: part investigative reporting, and it's about a fraud at the

816
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: center of the MAGA movement that's been going on for years.

817
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: And this is gonna be it's gonna you know, everything

818
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: so far has been free. This is gonna be a

819
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: paid piece. So I'm really gonna be testing here, whether

820
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: this model on sub stack works, whether people will support

821
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 2: and pay for this kind of investigative reporting takes a

822
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: lot of It takes a lot of time and a

823
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: lot of effort, and there are always uh serious threats

824
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 2: of legal actors. I didn't think, uh my my former

825
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 2: be one of those. I was worried about the people

826
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm covering, so I, uh, you know, I probably need

827
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: to tell to a lawyer about a few things. But anyway,

828
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate you exposing me to.

829
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: Your You've been doing it for one day. You got Politico,

830
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: after you, you got Trump after you. You're doing something right,

831
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 1: Ryan Liza, everybody followed Ryan Lizza at Tello's.

832
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 2: Thanks. I'll see you very soon.

833
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: You got it. I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning.

834
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: I invite you to join this community, where I promise

835
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: to be honest, blunt and direct about what is happening

836
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: in this country. America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe

837
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: to this channel and on substack. Thank you.