1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Annie, and this is Bridget and you're 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told to you. And this 3 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: is an update episode. We have an update, an updated update. 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: If you remember the episode that Emily and I did 5 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: a while back on Cintoya Brown, there's actually been new 6 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: movement in that case. Yes, um, if you're unfamiliar. Cintoya 7 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Brown is a young woman serving a lifcendence in Tennessee 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: for killing a man who picked her up for sex 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: when she was sixteen. She's one of at least one 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: hundred people in Tennessee who were sentenced to life in 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: prison as teenagers, and one of countless women who has 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: survived violence only to end up incarcerated. So this week, Brown, 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: who is now thirty, had a clemency hearing to persuade 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: members of the Tennessee Pearl Board to reduce her life 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: sentence that she was handed as a teenager. The six 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: member panel was basically divided. Two recommended her sentence be commuted, 17 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: too said to should be up for parole in and 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: too denied her request for clemency. According to CVS, A 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: spokesman for Governor Bill has Them said he and his 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: legal counsel will thoroughly review Brown's application in the Board 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: of Parole's recommendation before making a decision. If her clemency 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: request is denied, Brown won't be eligible for parole until 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: nearly forty years from now, when she's sixty nine. Dang, 24 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: and for a crime that you were convicted of when 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: you were sixteen, That is a long time. Yeah, So 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: let's hear more about her story and what's going on 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: with that and what folks can do. And today I 28 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: want to give a trigger warning right off the bat, 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: because today's episode deals with issues of violence against women 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: and rape and violence against children. So that's something that 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: is tough for you to listen to. Just know that's 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: what we're getting into today. Today we're talking about the 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: re emergence of the heartbreaking and tragic story of Sinoia Brown. 34 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: Cinoia is someone maybe you've heard her story, if you've 35 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: seen celebrities like Rihanna and Kim Kardashian West and Lebron 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: James and Snoop Dogg tweet about her post about her 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: on social media. Um, basically, her story is re emerging 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: right now in our national narrative about violence and sexual 39 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 1: crimes against women and young people and how we deal 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: with those crimes. Yeah, this case has really re emerged 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: as one of those tragic forms of injustice that slipped 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: through the cracks when our laws were not what they 43 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: should be. And for those who don't know the details 44 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: of her case, let's start right there. So back in 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: two thousand four, Centuria was a sixteen year old runaway 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: who after getting mixed up in a relationship with a 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: man named Cutthroat, friendly sounding dude who ended up essentially 48 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: pimping her out for sex. As a sixteen year old 49 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: girl sort of mixed up in all of this, she 50 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: was hired for sex by a forty three year old 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: real estate agent named Johnny Mitchell Allen, and he picked 52 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: her up at a sonic and took her back to 53 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: his house where things got even more scary, quite frankly, right, 54 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: So something to know about her situation is that even 55 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: though in these typical situations for her, she was taking 56 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: men back to a hotel where she was living out 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: of with this guy Cutthroat, but when she met John Allen, 58 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: he actually suggested they go back to his place because 59 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: there was no one there and they could be alone. 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: So it does seem right off the bat. This seems 61 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: to be a situation that was a little bit scarier 62 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: than the already scary situation she was in, So they 63 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: go back to his house. Once there, he starts showing 64 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: her his collection of guns, telling her that he was 65 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: formerly a sharpshooter in the army, that he has a 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: gun collection, that he's a really big deal um, and 67 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: she starts to feel really really scared. Well, I just 68 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: want you to put yourself in her shoes for a second. 69 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: You're sixteen years old, you've run away from home, you've 70 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: checked up for whatever reason, probably in a desperate situation 71 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: with a guy named Cutthroat who's selling your body. And 72 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: now this man brings you to his home, which is 73 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: not the plan, and you don't feel like you have 74 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: any power to say no, and now he's showing you 75 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: around his gun collection. I mean, I would be terrified. 76 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: It's terrifying. And on top of that, she had been 77 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: sort of coerced into using a lot of drugs by 78 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: this guy Cutthroat, And so it's difficult for me to 79 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: say that she was making rational choices considering she was 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: in such a scary situation and she was so young. 81 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: So basically what ended up happening was they were in 82 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: bed together at some point. She apparently was trying to 83 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: resist whatever he was doing with her. They were laying 84 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: in bed and he rolled over onto his side and 85 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: she thinks to herself, I don't know if he's getting 86 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: a gun. I don't know what's back to happened, and 87 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: Cutthroat had given her a gun to take with her, 88 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: and so she shot him. Yeah, she shot and killed him, 89 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: And she said, in her defense, she really thought that 90 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: she was an imminent danger. She thought he was reaching 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: for a gun or that he was about to rape her. 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: She didn't know what else to do, so she shot 93 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: and killed him. Uh. And the prosecution claimed that she 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: killed Alan as a part of a robbery, because what 95 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: she ended up doing was stealing his wallet and a 96 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: few firearms on her way out the door. But her 97 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: advocates actually point out that listen, if you are shacked 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: up with this guy Cutthroat, who she says it beats her, 99 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: rapes her, makes her have sex against her will with 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: his friends. You know, if you're shocked up with someone 101 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: like that who forces you to go out and do 102 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: this kind of thing with men for money, and you 103 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: come back empty handed, that you could really be putting 104 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: yourself at risk, and so some of her advocates say, no, 105 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't actually a robbery. As a sixteen year old, 106 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: you know, vulnerable young person, she felt she had to 107 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: take his money and his guns and his valuables to 108 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: give something to this guy cutthroat so that she wouldn't 109 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: get beat or killed or worse. Yeah. Yeah, I mean 110 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: it didn't help her case clearly because despite her age, 111 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: she was deemed a child prostitute, charged as an adult, 112 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: and she won't be eligible for parole until sometime after 113 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: her sixty nine birthday. It's not a life sentence, but 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: when you go in at sixteen, it's essentially a life sentence. 115 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: Here's her story, in her own words, from the hearing 116 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: that would lead to her being tried as an adult. 117 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: He didn't want to go to the hotel. He said 118 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: that he wanted to go to his house because there 119 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: was no one there that time. He was just finished 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: telling me about his accomplishments and saying how that he 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: used to be in the army and that he was 122 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: a sharp shit in the army. And then he had 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: told me how a lot of women want him for 124 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: his money, and that he wanted someone to make love 125 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: with him with desire. Okay, did you see any guns 126 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: in the house? Yes, I've seen two shotguns downstairs, and 127 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: he showed me a chrome gun with a black candle. 128 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: Where were you when he shows you that? I obvious 129 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: sit at table eating my food. You tend to be 130 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: a nervous person. Yeah, was there anything that made you 131 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: especially nervous that night? Um? Just how he was acting, 132 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: just how he talked. It's like the way he how 133 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: he was just so important stuff. And then me, I 134 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: thinking myself, who am I? Who am I? To him? 135 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: It's like then he talks about the guns and stuff. 136 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 1: If he does something to me, I'm sitting here thinking 137 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: what can I do? I'm in his house. Ain't nobody 138 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: gonna know where I'm at? My mom? And then they 139 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: don't know where I'm at. Something that really sticks out 140 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: at me at that testimony is that she sounds like 141 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: a kid. She sounds like a child as a kid. Yeah, she. 142 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: I don't know how someone could listen to that testimony 143 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: and think this is the testimony of someone who was 144 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: making choices as an adult, making reasonable choices for themselves 145 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: as an adult, should be held accountable for her choices, 146 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: like she was choosing prostitution, like any sixteen year old 147 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: can be a child prostitute. The whole concept is backwards, 148 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: and to not consider the coercive factors in her life 149 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: at that time and to choose to try her as 150 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: an adult just seems like such an obvious injustice. I 151 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: don't know how someone could look at a sixteen year 152 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: old runaway who is living with a grown man who 153 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: is raping her, making her have sex with his friends 154 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: against her will, forcing her to do drugs, someone who 155 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: had a very traumatic life from a very early age. 156 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how we can expect some really any 157 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: teenager whose brain is not fully developed to be making 158 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: adult choices, but it's actually one who is as vulnerable 159 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: as she was. I mean, I get it, like teenagers 160 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: writ large should be held responsible for their actions. I 161 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: get that, but this does not seem like a teenager 162 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: who's acting with free will, and that it just hanes 163 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: me that that wasn't taken into consideration, That someone could 164 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: listen to that kind of testimony and say, yep, let's 165 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: try her as an adult. Well, that's especially troubling when 166 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: you look at her childhood, so she's a runaway. She 167 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: had been crashing with friends in Nashville for about a 168 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: year towards the middle or the end of July of 169 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: two fours when she met her twenty four year old 170 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even want to call him boyfriends 171 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: but appropriate. Yeah, that's not an appropriate term. Then cutthroat 172 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: nice guy understounding dude. They started living together, staying at 173 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: different motels and snorting cocaine every day. He abused her 174 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: physically and sexually. She said that once he even choked 175 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: her until she passed out, and other times he even 176 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: pulled a gun on her. She said quote, he would 177 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: explain to me that some people were born horrors, and 178 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: that I was one, and I was a slut, and 179 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: nobody'd want me but him, and the best thing I 180 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: could do was just learned to be a good whore. 181 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: According to her testimony, he forced her into prostitution so 182 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: they would have money to live off of, so he's 183 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: basically capitalizing on her body and During Centuria's trial, the 184 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist Richard Adler, who was called to testify, also 185 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: said that some of Brown's erratic behavior on her own. 186 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: Her own behavior could be explained by her birth mother's 187 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: admitted abuse of alcohol while she was pregnant with Brown. 188 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: So they're trying to basically piece together, Okay, why did 189 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: this kid run away in the first place, and what's 190 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: going on here, to try to explain some of the 191 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: rationale or some of the motive behind how she ended 192 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: up in this situation. To further show that this is 193 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: a very desperate young person who is in a very 194 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: desperate situation. They diagnosed Brown as suffering from alcohol related 195 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: neurodevelopmental disorder, a type of fetal alcohol syndrome that he 196 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: characterized as quote severe mental disease and defect. And this 197 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: is predating forced prostitution. So, if you want to talk 198 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: about trauma, this is a young person who was born 199 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: into a lot of trauma, who lived with a lot 200 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: of trauma, and by the age of sixteen, is living 201 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: with a pimp name Cutthroat who beats her and chokes 202 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: or and pulls guns on her and forces her to 203 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: prostitute her body because apparently he's convincing her she's a 204 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: quote born whore. And yet this is someone who was, 205 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: in the eyes of our criminal justice system, supposedly making 206 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: choices as an adult the same way that a grown 207 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: woman who is not in an incredibly vulnerable situation as 208 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: a youth would be making choices. Our criminal justice system said, 209 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: this is someone who understood her actions and knew what 210 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: she was doing and making choices, and they're holding her 211 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: accountable as if she were an adult who was not 212 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: an incredibly vulnerable situation right for fifty years of her 213 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: life now, right, That's like, that's what our justice system 214 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: has deemed appropriate. And so it's no wonder that in 215 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: this moment that we find ourselves in in which injustice 216 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: and a lack of accountability in our justice system for 217 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: women and girls who are vulnerable and not fully empowered 218 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: as individuals or adults or as full human beings, there's 219 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: a reckoning that I think is happening right now. I 220 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: think that's part of the reason why Kim Kardashian West 221 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: and all these celebrities are drawing attention to Centoria's case 222 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: in this moment of me too. Is it the same thing? No? 223 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: Is it the same issue, Not entirely, but this idea 224 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: that the way our world works fundamentally does not treat 225 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: women and girls fairly is sort of that common thread 226 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: that that strings these two things together, and I would 227 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: hope that a cultural moment like Me Too does also 228 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: have room for stories like hers. Me Too has been 229 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: instrumental in showing the way that starlets and actresses and 230 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: models and folks like that have been preyed upon by 231 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: powerful men. But this movement, in my mind, can only 232 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: go so far if it doesn't also take into account 233 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: people who aren't a list Starlett's, people who aren't famous models, 234 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: If it leaves out youth who have been traffic if 235 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: it leaves out domestic workers, if it leaves out low 236 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: income women, if it doesn't tell all of those stories 237 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: and does not try to make this moment about justice 238 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: for all those different kinds of people, for me, it 239 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: would fall short. And so I'm hoping that this is 240 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: really a moment for all different kinds of people who 241 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: have been preyed upon, whether they're Uma Thurman or whether 242 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: they're a sixteen year old runaway. I think this moment 243 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: needs to be about reassessing how as a culture we 244 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: have talked about and dealt with all of those situations. Exactly. 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: It's a moment of reckoning, I think, for us to 246 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: really hold our justice system up against our values as 247 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: a country and where we're falling short and make some 248 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: changes exactly after a quick break, we'll talk more about 249 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: what Cintoya's story has to say about our criminal justice system. 250 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: And we're back and let's break down one of the 251 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: reasons why this case is really so troubling. So if 252 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: you go back to the two thousand four testimony, they 253 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: talk about Centoia like she is a quote unquote prostitute, 254 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: a prostitute who killed a john. And as we know now, 255 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: there's really no such thing as a child prostitute. Like 256 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,479 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist if you are a child, if you're 257 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: not an adult, and you are being made to have 258 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: sex with adults, you are being trafficked. And in two 259 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: thousand four, our criminal justice system did not allow for 260 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: that nuance to be understood. Young people who got caught 261 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: up in that system were treated as criminals despite the 262 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: fact that they would more accurately be described as victims. Yes, 263 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: I think it reminds me of statutory rape laws to 264 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: write those laws around the books for a reason, because 265 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: we acknowledge that consent is not possible when you are 266 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: a child who's having sex with an adult, and that's 267 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: even without the money factor. So, if you're thinking about 268 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: Centoria's situation in particular, do you really think that she's 269 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: entering into the marketplace of capitalism selling her body for profit? No, 270 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: she's not even profiting off of it, right, Like that's 271 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: not going back to her. And even if that money 272 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: was going into her pocket, she is not an adult 273 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: who's entering that system or entering that marketplace freely. Right, 274 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: She's not making a free choice in this situation. She's 275 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: being coerced, she's being abused, she's being raped in that 276 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: process and trafficked exactly. Here's how Sintoya described her situation 277 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: and at two thousand eleven PBS documentary called Me Facing Life, 278 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: he said that I was slipping and then I was 279 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: starting to become a slouch, that I needed to get 280 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: out and get on my garden and give some money. 281 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: What's this guy cut? What's his real name? Gary? And 282 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: how long were you living with him? For three weeks? 283 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: And then I'm sure what was her one time the 284 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: first time he is not Amy is when he told 285 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: me and I'm fast out because he said I thought 286 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: he was a joke. M h. What else did he 287 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: do to him? And Jene Okay, it's almost and so okay, 288 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: did you ever have sex with the guys when I 289 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: could go to me? I did? Did he did? He 290 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: have sex with you too? Sometimes? And everything? So how 291 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: come you stayed with him? You know? I meant him money? 292 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: He wasn't then be gone a where he tell me 293 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: to kill me? He knows amas and I'm not, dude, 294 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: chelc me to mos festa. He's not. I don't know 295 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: if you could hear everything she was saying in there, 296 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: but she said that he was dragging her by her hair, 297 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: that he was having sex with her against her will, 298 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: that he was putting a gun to her head, forcing 299 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: her to have sex with his friends. I mean, the 300 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: line of questioning here even infuriates me because the follow 301 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: up to those questions and answer, would you stay? Why 302 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: did you choose to stay with him? As though free 303 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: will was even on the table. And that's what I 304 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: find so powerful about her response to that question is, 305 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: you're not listening. He used me for money, And so 306 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: anyone who would think that this sixteen year old runaway 307 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: is making a choice to get involved in the sex 308 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: for money trade willingly they're not listening the same way 309 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't listening. They're not listening. And I think even 310 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: for someone so young, to me, I was like, yeah, 311 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: he's not listening. He doesn't understand. He thinks this is 312 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: like her shacking up with some guy and making like 313 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: having a good time or something. No, he's not listening 314 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: to how dire and how scary and really how powerless 315 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: she was in this situation exactly. And so she tries 316 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: to respond to make him listen by saying, dude, he 317 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: was going to kill me. He made it very clear 318 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: to me when he choked me out that he was 319 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: not afraid to kill me, that he knew where my 320 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: mother lived. This is the kind of psychology, logical torture 321 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: that sociopaths who kidnapped children do as well. Like she 322 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: is a child, she was being manipulated, coerced, and was 323 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: living in fear, and was being used for money that 324 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: didn't go back to her. I just cannot believe that 325 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: any part of our justice system, and especially as recently 326 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: as two thousand four, would think she's entering this as 327 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: a child prostitute and with free will, and we should 328 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: charge her as an adultage infuriating exactly, And unfortunately, her 329 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: situation isn't even as rare as we might like to think. 330 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 1: According to the Bureau of Justice statistics, each year, more 331 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: than a thousand children are vested for quote, prostitution in 332 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: the US. Yeah, and those advocates are saying that in 333 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: many of those cases, it's the children who are the victims, 334 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: not the perpetrators of crime. And so there are these 335 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: new safe harbor laws that protect trafficked miners from criminal 336 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: charges that really should have been part of what could 337 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: have saved Centuria but didn't. When you look at some 338 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: of the crimes that these young people who have already 339 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: gone through so much are getting immunity for. Some of 340 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: them are things like truancy and underage drinking, crimes that 341 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: seem so wildly out of step with the lives that 342 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: they're living. Are you going to be someone who is 343 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: a runaway at fourteen fifteen sixteen, getting involved in being 344 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: sex trafficked, becoming a victim in that way, and then 345 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: you're afraid to talk to law enforcement because you don't 346 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: want to get busted for underage drinking? Like what? Like? 347 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: What is that right? It just seems like a false equivalency. 348 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: And that's why those safe harbor laws are on the 349 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: books now to make it safe for victims of sex 350 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: traffick in our country, which by the way, there are 351 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: way more than we like to think there are, to 352 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: come forward and get the help that they need. What's 353 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: interesting is that we didn't even really talk about victims 354 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: of sex trafficking coming from the United States before around 355 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: two thousand five, Like, we had not even comprehended that 356 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: people in the United States could be victims of sex 357 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: trafficking until then, which seems wild to me. Well, it 358 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: just goes to show you how so often crimes against 359 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: women and girls are not considered public information or in 360 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: the public domain, kind of like how domestic violence was 361 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: a private matter until relatively historically recently exactly. And now 362 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: we even have a language to sort of describe the 363 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: system that gets young people involved in trafficking and sex 364 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: abuse and sex crimes and leads them to prison. Advocates 365 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: are calling it the sexual abuse to prison pipeline. And 366 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: this really is an idea that takes into account that 367 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: vulnerable young people who are being trafficked and sexually abused 368 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: and going through all of these traumas, oftentimes they're ending 369 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: up in the criminal justice system exactly, and here's what 370 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: he has mein VAFA, the executive director of Rights for Girls, 371 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: has to say about the sexual abuse to prison pipeline. 372 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: So what we actually found in the report was that 373 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: in a number of states that had available data looking 374 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: at girls in the system, the overwhelming majority of girls 375 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: behind bars had suffered instances of sexual and physical violence. 376 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: In some states like South Carolina was one of girls. 377 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: In places like Oregon, it was upwards of So we 378 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: looked at those high rates of trauma together with the 379 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: most common offenses that girls were being arrested for. It 380 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: really made clear that it was that victimization that was 381 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: driving the abuse. So sometimes that looks like a young 382 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: girl who's running away from an abuse of home or 383 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: foster care situation who is then arrested for the offensive 384 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: running away. And sometimes that looks like a girl who 385 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: is engaging in substance abuse to cope with the years 386 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: of trauma. And in the most extreme cases, it looks 387 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: like what happened to Brescia Meadows what happened to Cintoia Brown, 388 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: in the case that they were actually forced to take 389 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: more extreme measures to protect themselves as a result of 390 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: society essentially failing them and I think that it's not 391 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: a coincidence that the whole issue with Santoria Brown has 392 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: kind of made a resurgence during the wake of these 393 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: me too disclosures, because I think it shows what me 394 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: too looks like for some of our most vulnerable girls. 395 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: I almost feel like one of the questions that I 396 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: one of the most offensive questions that I'd come away 397 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: from that quote with Frankly, is I mean, here's the thing. 398 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: I think she's spot on, and yet I think most 399 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: people in prison who are the perpetrators of violent crimes 400 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: are victims themselves in some way. So we know that 401 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't provide a pass right. That doesn't mean that 402 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: murdering somebody, even if it is in self defense, gets 403 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: you off the hook if you've been traumatized in your past. 404 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: So I just wonder, how do we reconcile the obvious, 405 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: incredibly high rates of sexual abuse that lead many of 406 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: these women and girls into the justice system to begin with, 407 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: with the very real need for their need to be 408 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: crimes that yield punishments. You know, that's a great question, 409 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: and I think you can actually see an answer to 410 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: that in Centoia's defense. Basically, they aren't saying that that 411 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: she should be let out, you know, without sorting any time. 412 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: What they're advocating for is actually that as a young 413 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: person who committed a violent crime as a minor, she 414 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: should not be sentenced to life in prison without a 415 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: chance to get parole. And so basically her team is 416 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: arguing that what would make more sense is that her 417 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: case could be reviewed in fifteen to twenty years, not 418 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: fifty yet years, which is a situation now. And I 419 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 1: mean at the outset, she should have been tried as 420 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: a child, exactly. I completely agree. I don't understand how 421 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: someone could hear her testimony and not think this is 422 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: a child. So I don't think that she should have 423 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: been charged as an adult in the first place, despite 424 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: the violent nature of her crime, exactly. And I think 425 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: that's why today you see a lot more advocates bringing 426 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: scrutiny to this idea that you should charge any kind 427 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: of a young person like Centuria as an adult. In fact, 428 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: Brown's life sentence and the practice of sentencing young people 429 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: to a lifetime behind bars, even for the most heinous 430 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: of crimes, has drawn increased push back and flack, not 431 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: only in Tennessee, but really nationwide. As a wave of 432 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: scientific research has shown adolescens lag behind adults in the 433 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: development of the parts of their brain that regulate aggression, 434 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: abstract thinking, long term planning. And really, even if there 435 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: wasn't a history of sexual abuse and trauma, even if 436 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: there wasn't all of the components of fear and coercion 437 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: and desperation that weighed in on Centoia's case, that a 438 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: teenager shouldn't be charged as an adult, That a teenager 439 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: is not in the same position of power and free 440 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: will that an adult who's perpetrating a violent crime, plain 441 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: and simple, exactly. And furthermore, in the Supreme Court ruled 442 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: mandatory life without pearol sentences for juveniles violate the Eighth 443 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: Amendment prohibiting against cruel unusual punishment. So basically, this reform 444 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: won't actually help Brown's case much at all, because in 445 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: the state where she committed her crime, Tennessee, she actually 446 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: does get a parole review period after fifty one years, 447 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: but advocates say that that's essentially a de facto life sentence, 448 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: and so even though it's now unconstitutional juveile to face 449 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: life without parole for a crime committed when they were 450 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: under the age of eighteen. That doesn't actually help her 451 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: because she actually does get a parole review. It just 452 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: is a really really long time away. Oh my god, 453 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: fifty one years before a single parole review, really, and 454 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: I mean, how is that that much different than a 455 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: life sentence. I mean, advocates actually say it's basically a 456 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: life France, and in Tennessee there are already a hundred 457 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: and eighty three people serving actual life sentences for crimes 458 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: they committed when they were teams, and that already includes 459 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: a mandatory review after fifty one years, just like Cintoya's. 460 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: So advocates there call it a virtual life sentence because 461 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: that's really what even this teenager is, and a hundred 462 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: and eighty three teenagers are facing in the state of Tennessee. 463 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: So it sounds like Brown's team, like you mentioned earlier, 464 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Cintoya's team of attorneys is hope being to get you know, 465 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: not her off the books, not her crime to be 466 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: without any form of punishment, but to push for a 467 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: parole review in fifteen to twenty years instead of waiting 468 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: until she's basically sixty nine years old, and that would 469 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: have her being in prison until she's thirty one or 470 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: thirty six rather than sixty nine. And for a teenager 471 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: who went in when she was sixteen, that's really something 472 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that someone should spend they're basically their 473 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: entire life behind bars because of a choice they made 474 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: when they were a vulnerable sixteen year old. Yeah, and 475 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: a choice in air quotes, Yeah not. I mean, it's 476 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: a cowersive situation all around. So I don't know. I 477 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: think there's this really troubling line of questioning that came 478 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: out of some of the research we were doing, which 479 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: it boils down to this concept of crime and punishment 480 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: or crime and rehabilitation. In other words, some people would 481 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: argue Bridget that Centoya's life is better off in prison 482 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: since she's been there, or she's gotten her associates degree, 483 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 1: she's in a comparatively safe environment, which I think is 484 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: pretty offensive in terms of that that line of questioning anyway, 485 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: to say, oh, she's better off in prison than having 486 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: her life to herself and having any free will for 487 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: thirty to fifty one years. What what do you think 488 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: about that concept that came out of the research where 489 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: there were journalists asking her defense attorneys, isn't it better 490 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: off that she's in prison as opposed to being pimped out. 491 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: As someone who has worked on criminal justice and juvenile 492 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: justice reform issues, I think anybody who thinks that doesn't 493 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: know anything about what it's like for a young person 494 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: to be involved in the criminal justice system in this way. 495 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: Girls who are in detention, it's not a safe situation. 496 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: It's not a dignified situation. It's not a situation that 497 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,479 Speaker 1: you would think, oh, they're in a safe space. A 498 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: lot of times they're being abused within the system. It's 499 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: not a place that I would describe as safe. And 500 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: so even though she certainly wasn't living a safe life 501 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 1: at the streets with cutthroat, I would never say that 502 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: she's better off behind bars, even if she's made life 503 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: developments there. Yeah, And it just forces us to consider 504 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: as a country how we think about prison. Right. The 505 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: United States is notorious for locking up more of our 506 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: citizens and countries almost anywhere else, which we mentioned on 507 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: the episode around Pregnant prison. And we have to consider 508 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: that we're paying twenty seven dollars per year per inmate 509 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. That's our taxpayer dollars. So what's the return 510 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: on that investment? First of all, we're punishing this child 511 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: who is trafficked, not a child prostitute, as an adult, 512 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: throwing her behind bars for fifty one years before she 513 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: has the chance to even prove herself rehabilitated. And that's 514 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: supposed to be a good use of our justice system 515 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: to to rehabilitate criminal activity. I just it boggles my 516 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: mind a little bit. And at the same time, I 517 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: know that the victims advocates, the folks who are advocating 518 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 1: on behalf of that John Really, who was you know, 519 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: was shot and killed in this crime, probably feel a 520 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: little differently about it. Absolutely, they completely do. So. Two 521 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: victims advocates groups have been very clear that they don't 522 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: agree that Brown's case needs to be reassessed or that 523 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: she should get any kind of leniency for her age 524 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: when she committed her crime. The National Organization of Victims 525 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: of Juvenile Murder has criticized advocates for eliminating life sentences 526 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: for juvenile fenders as quote lavishing all their resources on 527 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: convicted murderers. They go on to say, we are not 528 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: denying the premise that teenage perpetrators are impacted by toxic 529 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: stress and events in their life, but we believe juveniles 530 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: have to be held accountable for their actions, and Nashville 531 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: based victims rights groups have the same thing. The group 532 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: is called You Have the Power, and their executive director said, 533 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: the results are the same whether the person committing the 534 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: crime is sixteen or sixty. And I gotta say, I 535 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: understand where they're coming from in a kind of way, 536 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 1: because nobody wants to be the victim of a violent crime. 537 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: But I don't agree that it's the same thing whether 538 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: the perpetrator was a full grown adult or a child. 539 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. It belies this weird discomfort around how 540 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: our society considers youth responsible or not responsible for their actions. So, 541 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, teenager criminals should be held responsible for their actions. 542 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: But if we believe that prison is a form of rehabilitation, 543 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: and we believe that children need different kinds of rehabilitation 544 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: and maybe that they have more life afterwards, more life 545 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: after crime, to actually you know, redeem themselves, to join 546 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: society as a fully rehabilitated human being with their full 547 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: rights reinstated, then we have to treat them differently. We 548 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,719 Speaker 1: have to consider the special circumstances that meet miners. And 549 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: we know that this is happening in other crimes. We 550 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: know that other criminals who are miners are treated differently. Well, 551 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I was going to say. I think 552 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: my question to as always who gets treated like a 553 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: kid and who doesn't? Who if we're talking about people 554 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: who are the same age, what kind of people are 555 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: criminalized as adults? What kind of person does the justice 556 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: system say you understood, you're old enough to know what 557 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: you did was wrong, and we're gonna treat you like 558 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: an adult. And who gets called just a kid or 559 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, a good guy gone wrong? Wait, let me 560 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: guess white dudes. Exactly it is white guys. Look at 561 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: cases like Brock Turner, who was actually convicted of three 562 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: accounts of felony sexual assault and sort of just ninety 563 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: two days in jail and is now actually this week 564 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: trying to appeal his conviction. He got a slap on 565 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: the wrist, and all of his advocates said, he's just 566 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: a kid, he's just a student. He made a bad choice. 567 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: His parents talked about him like he was just a child, 568 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: and he got a very lenient sentence. And you might recall, 569 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: or maybe you don't have the details of his crime. 570 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: He was caught raping an unconscious young woman behind a 571 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: dumpster on campus, right, and two men actually came to 572 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: the rescue in this say, in this case and stopped 573 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: him and held him until he was arrested. But this 574 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 1: guy has the hubrists and the entitlement and the audacity 575 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: to push back on ninety two days. Come on, it's 576 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: really mind boggling. And look at cases like Tamir Rice, 577 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: who was a twelve year old with a bb gun 578 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: who was shot and killed and people saw him and 579 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: thought that's a grown man, and he's a kid. He 580 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,719 Speaker 1: was a black kid, Yes, And I think when we 581 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: think about who we extend the ability to be just 582 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: kids and who we sentenced as adults, we need to 583 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: be thinking about who gets left out of that, and 584 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: oftentimes it's it's youth of color. Yes. Absolutely. The Georgetown 585 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: Law Center on Poverty and Equality just put out of 586 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: study earlier this year Girlhood interrupted the erasure of Black 587 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: girls childhood, and what they found is that black boys 588 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: as early as ten years old are more likely than 589 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: white boys to be misperceived as older, to be viewed 590 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: as guilty of suspected crimes, and to face police violence 591 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: if accused of a crime when you lay over gender 592 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: on top of race. Here, the study found that black 593 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: girls as early as the age of five are viewed 594 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: as less innocent than their white counterparts, basically blind this 595 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: intersection of unconscious bias race and gender that leaves girls 596 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: like Centuria more likely to be seen as somehow responsible 597 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: for their crime or somehow guilty and less innocent just 598 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: for being who she is. Absolutely, and it's really troubling 599 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: and heartbreaking, and said, and I can't help but see 600 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: the way that these things have played out in her 601 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: sentencing and in her case. We're gonna talk a little 602 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: bit more about where the case is at now and 603 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: what can be done about it after this quick break 604 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: and we're back. You were just talking about the heartbreaking 605 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: story of Setoya Brown, And here's where Setoya is now. 606 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: She's still behind bars, but apparently she is basically a 607 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: model inmate. While in prison, she earned her associates degree 608 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: from Lipscomb University, which is an in jail program. She 609 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: got that degree in she's also working toward her master's degree. 610 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: All of the various folks that would have been interviewed 611 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: in her case and for this documentary on PBS, all agree. 612 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: She's a model inmate who works as a mentor for 613 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: other young people in the criminal justice system, And she 614 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: talks on and on about how her main concern is 615 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: that she doesn't want other young women to be traffic 616 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: to her that she was and to fall into the 617 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: criminal justice system the way she has. Because all of 618 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: the legal updates that have been made in terms of 619 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: the rules and regulations, the safe harbor laws that now 620 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: acknowledge even in the state of Tennessee that children cannot 621 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: be prostitutes don't lie to her. So while the laws 622 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,479 Speaker 1: on the books have improved, that hasn't helped her case 623 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: at all. And she seems not only aware of that, 624 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: but accepting of that. She's accepting of that and advocating 625 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: for other people, mentoring other women in prison, and helping 626 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: make positive change for those who come behind her. And 627 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: I just think that that speaks volumes of her character. 628 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: It speaks volumes of what Centauria Brown is capable of, 629 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: and it reminds me that we all need to come 630 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: to her defense. We all need to play a role 631 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: in making her life a little easier. So what can 632 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: folks do well? You can be like Kim Kardashian West 633 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: and you can tweet about it for starters. And if 634 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: you're at Kim Kardashian West type and you have access 635 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: to a high powered celebrity attorney, which Kim Kardashian West does, 636 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: you can get her involved. Kim Kardashian West actually was 637 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: in the news this week. Or getting her celebrity attorney 638 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: involved in this case awesome, awesome, So use that hashed 639 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: free Cintoya Brown and her name is spelled c y 640 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: n t o I A Brown. Um. You can sign 641 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: the move on dot org petition that has nearly half 642 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: a million signatures already. But let's be practical here. You're 643 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you on your iPhone 644 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: in your car. If you want to make real change 645 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: in Cinoia Brown's life right now, I want you to 646 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: pull over. I want you to write this down. I 647 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: want you to get your notebook out, and I want 648 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: you to get that notes app ready because you can 649 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: actually directly communicate with and directly support Cintoia Brown. We 650 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: just signed up to do it ourselves. Bridget, How can 651 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,919 Speaker 1: folks spread a message of support, hope, love, and even 652 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: put some dollar bills behind Cintoya Brown herself so you 653 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: can write to her in prison. You can find her 654 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: at Miss Centoya D. Brown number four one zero five 655 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: nine three to South C twelve D one Stewart's Lane, Nashville, Tennessee, 656 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: zip code three seven to one eight. You can also 657 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,479 Speaker 1: sign up for a website called j pay dot com, 658 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: which helps you put money in the bank for Cinoia 659 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: Brown to access in prison. At jpa dot com, just 660 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: search for the state Tennessee and search for inmate number 661 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: four one zero five nine three. There you can set 662 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: up a free account. You'll identify the right inmate, you 663 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: can see her name is right there, and you can 664 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: send her money directly. You can even sign up to 665 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: make recurring payments. So listen, there's not much we can 666 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: do unless you're an attorney who wants to head to 667 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Tennessee yourself or hire your celebrity attorney to do that too. 668 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: Unless you can fight the laws on the books here 669 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: and stay monitoring this case, there's not much we can 670 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: do to make a case like Cintoia Browns, who slipped 671 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: through the cracks better at this point. But what we 672 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: can do is spread a message of hope, of support, 673 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: of encouragement for this young woman who has come so 674 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: very far already, but deserves so much more than the 675 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: deck of cards she's been handed. I would also urge 676 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: folks to watch the two thousand eleven PBS documentary about 677 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: her case called Me Facing Life. Honestly, watching that documentary 678 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: in preparation for this episode really showed me what a 679 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: mature young woman she's become, despite the fact that most 680 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: of her life was either spent on the streets or 681 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: behind bars. Cintoya in this film describes the situation wherein 682 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to be pretty anymore. She cuts off 683 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: her hair and shaves her eyebrows because being attractive gets 684 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: you nothing but trouble, and looking at her life, I 685 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: can understand how a young woman would come to that conclusion. 686 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: So at the end of this documentary, you really find 687 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: this young person trying to figure out who she is 688 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: in the world, even as she's behind bars and what 689 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: it all means. Here's what she has to say about 690 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: herself as the reason I cutmer off and shame brows off. 691 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: It's kind of like to prove to myself that I'm 692 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: beautiful with all that, you know what I mean, and 693 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm worth one than that. Did you feel that. Yeah, 694 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: every now and then I feel stupid for Kuti are 695 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: off to take my brows, But basically I think I 696 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: haven't for the past two years working on making a 697 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: personality I've never had one before. And if you want 698 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 1: to reach out with your words of wisdom, with your 699 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: show of support, now is the time when Centoya is 700 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: deciding who she is and who she wants to become. Right, 701 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: we all have been in a vulnerable position in our 702 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: lives at some point when we were facing the same 703 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: question of who am I? Who am I not defined 704 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: by external quality, is not defined by my relationships or 705 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: utility to other people, specifically abusive men in our lives. 706 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,240 Speaker 1: If you want to share your words of support, please 707 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: take a moment today right to Cinoia. Don't write to us, 708 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: take this opportunity to write to Sintoya, and even if 709 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: you can't donate to her account, which we also highly 710 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: encourage you to do, share with her what her words 711 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: have meant to you today. Because we can't go back 712 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: in time and make this situation much better, but we 713 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: can make her future a lot better at this critical point, 714 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: and consider the fact that she really serves as a 715 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: mentor for other young people who are involved in the 716 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: criminal justice system. It's not too late for her to 717 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: be an impactful force in the lives of others and 718 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: to keep other people from getting tangled up in an unfair, tricky, 719 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: dangerous system the way that she has been. And so 720 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: I encourage all of us to really lift her up 721 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: and support her, because I don't think what happened to 722 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: her was scare and I'm glad that people are talking 723 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: about it and we want to hear what you have 724 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: to say. What do you think about brown story? What 725 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: did you think about the idea of the sexual abuse 726 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: to prison pipeline? Is it something you've heard of? What 727 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: do you think it means when someone commits a crime 728 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: as a youth and it's dealt with as if they 729 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,479 Speaker 1: were an adult. You want to hear from you. Send 730 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: us a tweet at mom Stuff podcast, hit us up 731 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, and as always, 732 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 1: we love getting your emails at mom Stuff at how 733 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.