1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: My latest guests on All Ball, and this is a 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: good one. Is a childhood friend of mine, Rushiet Hazard. 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Everybody knows him as Too Too in La where he 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: grew up, and she'd is an incredible human being as 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: well as basketball coach currently coaching in the BA l 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: as the Basketball African League, and he's coaching the team 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: out of South Africa. And we'll get into that. We'll 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: get into growing up as son of Walt Hazzard, what 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: it was like coaching with the Lakers, how he got 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: in there, and why it didn't work with Phil Jackson 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: the Knicks. But before we get to that, how good 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: the NBA playoff's been? 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: Right? 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: And obviously if you follow me on Twitter, there's been 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: a back and forth where people I don't think truly 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: have an understanding of what my tweet or commentary was about. 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: The commentary was more on the radio show which we 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: listened to daily three to five Eastern time, twelve to Pacific, 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: or I've been on social media about Kendrick Perkins remark. 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: My point is simply that when Kendrick Perkins gave the 22 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: old Hey, are people giving Jewel Embiid to pass basically 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: because he's white? You know, I wonder which he felt 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: like there was some sort of need for more diversity 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: and voting, and that was the reason that Steve Nashall 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: went back to back MVPs and that Jokic was the 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: odds on favorite at the time. My tweet was simply 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: that before Kendrick Perkins anything, Jokic was the clear favorite 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: to win a third straight MVP, and afterwards he didn't 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: play as well down the stretch, Embiid didn't play against him, 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: and Biid had that incredible game against the Celtics where 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: he scored half the points for the Sixers. I'm not 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: sure the Celtics really went for that game anyway, but 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. He did have an incredible game. And 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: I think, you know, Drew Hanlon, who's the trainer for 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: Joel and Bid, starts tweeting out videos of Jokicic not 37 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: playing good defense and then became a narrative of Hey, 38 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: this is us versus the analytics crowd. All of those 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: things took place after Kendrick Perkins made the MVP race 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: about race. I don't know, I don't think Joel and 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: bieb won it because of his race or but I 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: just think it put voters in a bad spot. It's like, 43 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: what do I do? I just want to vote who 44 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: I want to vote for? Joelann Bida wins the MVP. 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: What's interesting is Jokics just kind of been better in 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: the playoffs, right, But you could also say that how 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: good has Devin Booker been in the playoffs and healthy 48 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: Anthony Davis holy cow? Right now? Granted they've only played 49 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: three games, two of which he was dominant, one of 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: which he was not, and the two he was dominant. 51 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: Lakers won both those games, So I think some of 52 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: it is we have to factor in that. That's why 53 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: the future MVP awards where you have to play a 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: certain number of games. Like Kevin rant is an elite, 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: elite player, he probably doesn't have the explosiveness anymore, so 56 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: maybe he never wins another MVP award, But it is 57 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: fair to say that he may have been in Kauhi 58 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: this year. They were the best players in the league 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: at times, but you couldn't give him an MVP because 60 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: they didn't play enough in the regular season, whereas Embiid, 61 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: Jokic and frankly Giannis did. But now when it's playoff time, man, 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: Jokich is incredible, I mean freaking incredible. And we'll see 63 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: with Embiid. You know, they won two games with James 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: Harden kind of carrying them as he But you got 65 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: to also factor in that when you sprain a knee, 66 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: you got to get back up to speed. You're not 67 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: going to go from zero to one hundred and dominate 68 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: the NBA. I think Joel Embiid is the rightful I 69 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: thought he should have won the MVP last year, more 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: so than this year. But I mean, if you want 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: to say he's the best most dominant player in the 72 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: league for the past two years, it was fine. I 73 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: think Ki in that discussion. I think Johannis is in 74 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: that discussion, and it's a regular season award. In the postseason, 75 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: Jokich has been better, but so is Booker, and so 76 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: is Booker, and yet that doesn't mean he should have 77 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: won the MVP. I still think I would have voted 78 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: for Jalen Brunson because of the change in that franchise. 79 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: People thought, even go back to December this year, that 80 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: Tibbs is going to be fired, and look at the Knicks. 81 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: Now granted struggling in this playoff series. Playoff basketball has 82 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: been great. 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: I think I'll give you. 84 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Some Lakers Warriors thoughts the day after, which is again Tuesday, 85 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: and Monday is this is the recording of this podcast, 86 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: so I'll give you more thoughts and more podcast thoughts 87 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: on the transfer portal and some of the things we're 88 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: seeing in the college game. But first let's get you 89 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: to our guest. This is Rush sheet Hazard. He's the 90 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: head coach of the Johannesburg Tigers in the b A 91 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: L joining me on the pod. Where are you at 92 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: this very moment physically geographically in the world. 93 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 3: I am in Johannesburg, South Africa, sitting in the Hightt House, 94 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: which has become my home home. 95 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: So it's a The high House is just a hotel, right, yeah. 96 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: Just a hotel. 97 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: But you know, got a little kitchen net so I 98 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: can act like I'm in an apartment. 99 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: Overseas. 100 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: Paint the picture of what what it's like like you 101 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: go outside the doors, what's it what's it like for 102 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: like you're an American LA New York wherever. What's Johannesburg 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: like in terms of day. 104 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: To day life man like. 105 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: But where I am, which is like most to Sante City, 106 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: which is like the richest square mile in all of Africa. 107 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: So that's like Century City, you know, Century City. 108 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: Or you know, like downtown or something like that, downtown 109 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: in La But it's really nice. 110 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: It's a really nice part of town. 111 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 3: But I've also spent some time in the townships, like 112 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: in Soweto, uh in Tembisa where they have this group 113 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: called the slaughter House that plays pick up balls, like 114 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: a group of older guys like ourselves, uh that. 115 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: Play ball and they kind of mentor the kids in 116 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: the area. So I've spent some. 117 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 3: Time in the townships as well, which has been pretty cool. 118 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: So it's uh, it's actually a really great experience, man, 119 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: because there's so much history here in South Africa, and 120 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: especially in Johannesburg with the apartheid movement and everything that is, 121 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: uh that has happened with that, and so I've been 122 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: I've been really enriched with just all the history and 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 3: all the events that have happened. 124 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: So it's been it's been a hell of an experience 125 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: for them. 126 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so what met you in apartheid and you're in 127 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: the wealthiest part of South Africa. What's it like racially 128 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: in terms of just the area you're in? Right? Is 129 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: it all black? Is it all white? Is it mixed? 130 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: Like? What is it? 131 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: What does it feel like? 132 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? 133 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 3: Where I am, it's very really mixed. Get a little 134 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: bit of everything, You get a lot of there's a 135 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: lot of tourists in the area too, because it's Santon City. 136 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 3: It's kind of like the hangout spot, you know, it's 137 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 3: kind of like where everybody. 138 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: Goes to the club, like Memro, Century Club and Century City. 139 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: They got all the restaurants that turn into. 140 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: Clubs at night, and so it was like a really 141 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 3: popping night life. Not that I'm enjoying it at all, 142 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: but if I was ten years younger, I'd be having 143 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: a hell of a time, let's just say that. But 144 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: it's a really really mixed racially over here, and it's 145 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: kind of high end, but you get a little bit 146 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: of everything. And then you also see obviously a lot 147 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: of the workers commute through this area, so you get 148 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 3: to interact with people of. 149 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: All social classes, which is actually pretty cool too. 150 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: So I want to here's how I normally like to do, 151 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: like chronological so we'll go way back in a second, 152 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: But I mean, I think where you are currently is 153 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: so interesting. I want to just like use this as 154 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: kind of like a tease ahead to what's kind of 155 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: more to come. But you're you're coaching in the African 156 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: Basketball A right? Is that what it's called? 157 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: Basketball Africa League BAM? 158 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: This year first time being a head coach? 159 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: Isn't it my very first time being a head coach. 160 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 3: I coached in Japan and third Division, but I don't 161 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 3: really count that. 162 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: It was kind of. 163 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: You know, it's a little lower level, really good league, 164 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 3: but the level this is an NBA affiliated league, so 165 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: I really considered this my first head coach. 166 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: Is it do when when you're walking around do people 167 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: know of the league? 168 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: Like? 169 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: Do people watch it? Is it yet a thing? 170 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: I think when I first got here, it wasn't as 171 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 2: much as Johannesburg have some people who knew. 172 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 3: But after our experience this past weekend in Cairo, I 173 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: feel like it's a lot more visible because when I 174 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: was in the airport, I had three or four people 175 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 3: walk up to me and just like Jo, people from 176 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: South Africa who were really proud because on Saturday we 177 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 3: won our last game to advance to Kigalli to the playoffs, 178 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: and we had three of our imports were hurt. Three 179 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 3: out of our four imports were injured and they missed 180 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 3: the game, and we won the game with our South 181 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 3: African national players and so that was a great source 182 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: of pride for the local community and for South Africa 183 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: as a whole. And so I feel like we did 184 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 3: a big thing for South Africa basketball on Saturday and 185 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: driving the culture forward, and so I'm really excited to. 186 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: Be a part of that. 187 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: Let's go back. Okay, when we first met. I mean 188 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: I remember distinctly if you dablished head coaching UCLA and 189 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: you guys, you grew up in the Crenshaw District, what 190 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: what was what was childhood like for being a hazard, right, 191 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: son of a legend and a guy who they're just 192 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot to your dad. Right, there's his conversion to Islam, 193 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: his winning. You know, he was the guy who's most responsible. 194 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 1: We're seen his most responsible changing UCLA's program, coming from Philadelphia, 195 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,239 Speaker 1: winning a national championship. But for you when you're a kid, 196 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: what was that like? 197 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: I mean, man, it was it was unreal because he 198 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 3: he was just such a dynamic. 199 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Man, you know what I mean? He was. 200 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was an even greater dad than he was 201 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: a basketball player. You know, the way he the way 202 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: he poured into all of us and you know, really 203 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: built our cops because he knew what he was face 204 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 3: out in the world being sons of Wale Hazard and 205 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: we would get the comparisons and people would talk about 206 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: we should. 207 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: Make it to the end. Yeah, and He's just say. 208 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 3: Stuff to people like remember when I started to get 209 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: pretty good and people be like, hey, Walt, this is 210 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: the one And he would say, Oh, he don't have. 211 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: To play basketball. 212 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 4: He's gonna build spaceships and his it was his way 213 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 4: of taking the pressure off of us, to let us 214 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 4: know that whatever we did in life, he was going 215 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 4: to be proud of us and happy with and happy. 216 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: With and so I mean it was really you know, 217 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: I mean it was a surreal experience. 218 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 3: You know, we grew up around you know, Kareem Abdul 219 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: Jabbar and Magic Johnson would come to the house, you know, 220 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: after after a Lakey game, we'd come home and. 221 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: You know, Jamal Wilson sitting up in the bedroom. 222 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: Like hanging out with him, sitting on a on a 223 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 3: on a lounge chair, just chilling and they're watching TV 224 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 3: and listening to the jazz records, you. 225 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: Know, Will Chamberlain and just the people we. 226 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: Were exposed to at the level at the age we 227 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 3: were exposed to the manag just you know, it was 228 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: actually cool because they just were like normal people to us. 229 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: They wasn't anything special. 230 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: And so I think him doing that for us really 231 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 3: built our confidence and really pushed us in ways that 232 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 3: you know, we could never imagine. You know, I know 233 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 3: he's not so popular now, but Bill Cosmy was another 234 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: person who you know, we were exposed to early in 235 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: like a different world. I don't know if you even 236 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 3: know this story to show a different world. Remember Sindbad 237 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: and Don Lewis sure their names were Walton Walter and 238 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: Jalisa named after my parents, and so rus yeah, like 239 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 3: you think about it now, you're. 240 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: Like, oh, that's true. 241 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 3: Like so and the story was loosely based on how 242 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: they met in college, and so. 243 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: They made they made that normal for us. It wasn't. 244 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: They never made us feel like we were better than anybody. 245 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 3: They were like, this is just your life, and you 246 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: know you still have a responsibility to be humble and 247 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: to be kind to people. 248 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 2: And they made that the focus of what we did 249 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 2: growing up. 250 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: It wasn't about you know, showing our privilege, which is 251 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: we were very privileged. 252 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: You know. 253 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: It's it's interesting. Yeah, my experience, it's weird, my experiences 254 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: with you when I would come to your house where 255 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: that was like you walk in and there'd be somebody 256 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: who if you knew anything about anything in basketball and 257 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: life like, and it was just very normal. I just 258 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: very normal. I remember one time I got to be 259 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: a ball boy with you at a game and Reggie 260 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: was we were feeding Reggie Miller before the game, like 261 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: an hour and a half for the game, and he 262 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: was shooting barefoot, and I was I just I remember, like, 263 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: there's so many kind of unique things about your life 264 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: and your existence and about again how not just normal, 265 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: but how you weren't entitled. How did your dad do that? 266 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: How was it so that you didn't you didn't act 267 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: like your better Like what what what would he do? 268 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: What would he say? Other than just taking the pressure off. 269 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: I think one of. 270 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 3: The big roots of that was his Lam. You know, 271 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: the humility that you have to have in his Lam 272 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: was a big part of the root of that. 273 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: And then I think it was other things like you know, 274 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 2: obviously he was the coach of UCLA. We used to 275 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: first we were with Puma. 276 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 5: We used to get these big boxes of shooters from 277 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 5: Puma and he would make you know, we get like 278 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 5: fifteen pairs of shoes and he'd say, you know, pick 279 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 5: six or seven, so you had some. 280 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: Because we'd tear through them. And then we would take 281 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: the astra ones and give them to the kids at 282 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: the Monsqua. You know, we would give them to kids 283 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: who just needed them, and he would just that helped 284 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 3: us understand like what we had and what other. 285 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: Kids sometimes didn't. 286 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: And you know, you don't know the lesson that you're 287 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: learning when you're a young man or a boy, but 288 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: as you grow into a young man and you carry 289 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: that same sense of giving and humility with you, it 290 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: just ends up shaping your life. 291 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: And it's how my mom and my dad were. You know, 292 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: they were. 293 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: Givers, they were helpers. You know, every kid in the neighborhood, 294 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: as you know, came to our house. Our back doors 295 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: always open. People just walked right in. 296 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: You know, you do, pour blast of kool aid and 297 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: come sit down on the couch and just hang out. 298 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 2: And so it was always like an open door policy. 299 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: You know. 300 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 3: I remember my brother Jela, who passed away in September, 301 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: met Chris Mives. 302 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: They were playing on the. 303 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: Youth team together at Queen Anne Park, and you know, 304 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: Chris was just at our house and we looked up and. 305 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: Three months later, Chris was still living at our house. 306 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,359 Speaker 2: You know, he was sleeping on the bunk beds with us. 307 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: And so it was just that sense. 308 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: Of giving and helping people that we watched our parents do, 309 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: and we watched them give so freely. 310 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: You know, they bought groceries and there was another kid 311 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: at the house. 312 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: My mom fed that child, not to ask their parents 313 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: for money in return, but because that was the sense 314 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: of community she wanted to build. 315 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: And so I think my mom and my dad did 316 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: a great job. 317 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: Just instill in community and humility in us and being 318 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 3: givers and not takers. 319 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: What was the decision like for you in terms of 320 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: playing in college where to play in college? 321 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: It was pretty easy. 322 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: I had a few schools that were looking at me locally. 323 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: I really wanted to go to the East Coast. I 324 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: really kind of wanted to get away. I went on 325 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: a visit to GW I went the last weekend or 326 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: the next to last weekend of the recruiting period. 327 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: I hadn't yet committed, and I got there and the guys. 328 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 3: Nimbo Hammonds and Omo Moses and Billy Callaway, Anthony Wise, 329 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: these guys were all going to be seniors, and they 330 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: just took Antoine Hart. They just took me in like 331 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: a little brother. And I just felt the sense of 332 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: family there that I hadn't that I hadn't felt anywhere else, 333 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: And just feeling that sense a family made the decision 334 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 3: really easy. 335 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: You know, even Coach Jarvis. 336 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 3: You know, Coach Jarvis and his wife are very welcoming 337 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 3: to me, and we didn't end up having the greatest 338 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 3: relationship during my time there for many different reasons. But 339 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: ever since, you know, I talked to Coach, We text 340 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 3: all the time. He's one of my biggest support orders 341 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 3: since I've gotten into the coaching profession. And you know, 342 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 3: it was the best decision I made in my life, 343 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 3: is going to GW and staying there. 344 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 6: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 345 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 6: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio 346 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 6: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to 347 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 6: listen live. 348 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: Why did Why didn't you, And I asked, because I 349 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: think I actually know the answer from an outside perspective. 350 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: But why do you think you didn't have Because like 351 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: Mike Jarvis is right, like he came up with Patty 352 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: was pat Ewing's high school coach, right, incredibly bright educated dude, 353 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: like about so many of the right things. And you 354 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: would think that, you know, his respect for your father 355 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: and your family and how you played, you were in 356 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: the cerebral player, You would think that would mesh really well. 357 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: Why didn't it? 358 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: You know, I don't. 359 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: I think a couple of reasons. I don't think he 360 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 3: got me as a as a person. I think he 361 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 3: had expectations of who I would be. You know, his 362 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 3: son would make jokes and like try to say, oh man, 363 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 3: it's the fresh Prince of bel Air, and I'm like, no, bro, 364 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 3: Like you don't understand. I grew up in the city, 365 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: Like I didn't go to privacy. Well, I grew up 366 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 3: at Rancho Santaca Park. I went to Venice High. I 367 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 3: went to Laces where like we were city kids, we 368 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: went to public schools. 369 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: And they thought I had it. 370 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 3: They thought I was coming in with the privileged private 371 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: school mentality. Like a lot of people, and I think 372 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: that was the biggest mistake, and it just it just. 373 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: Started us off on the wrong note. 374 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 3: And you know, I have no none of my my 375 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 3: animosity at the time was around whether I played or not. 376 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 3: It wasn't It was never about that. It was how 377 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: he treated me as a human being. And I didn't 378 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 3: think that they valued me as a person, and I 379 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 3: didn't think they treated me the way that I expected 380 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: to be treated. And my parents taught us to be 381 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: advocates for ourselves, when at eighteen, I wasn't afraid to 382 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: be that advocate for myself. 383 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: So I stood up for myself when. 384 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: I thought he was trying to embarrass me or he 385 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 3: was doing things that were outside of the realm of. 386 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: What a coach is supposed to do with a player, which. 387 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: Is something I understood very well, having grown up at 388 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 3: UCLA watching the way my dad dealt with his athletes, 389 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 3: knowing coach wouldn't know in the various college coaches we 390 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: both were privileged to grow up knowing. And I just 391 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: didn't think some of the things he did with me 392 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: were becoming of a man of his caliber and a 393 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 3: coach of his caliber. And I was very willing to 394 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: tell him that, and I understood the repercussions of standing 395 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: up for myself and I have no regrets, and I 396 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: don't think he should have any regrets either, because he 397 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: handled it the way he thought was appropriate at the time. 398 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: How much of that has formed you into the coach 399 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: and person you are today? Okay, not just what your 400 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: parents taught you, but the experience of being on the 401 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: other side of a guy who doesn't understand you as 402 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,719 Speaker 1: a person and so there can't be a relationship between 403 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: player and coach. How much of that is even though 404 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: it's an it's it's a clear negative, but has helped 405 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: shaped you into who you are currently. 406 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: It's everything. 407 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 3: When I started as a high school coach at Venice High, 408 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: I didn't look at my at the guys. 409 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: On my team as my players. 410 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 7: I more tried to look at them as my my 411 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 7: children and my nephews, and so I valued them as 412 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 7: people first, and I made sure that I showed them 413 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 7: not only did I respect them, but I loved them 414 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 7: and I wanted the best. 415 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 3: For them, and everything that I was going to do 416 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 3: with them was geared toward that, and I tried to 417 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: make that the clear driving point in my message and 418 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: that continues to this day. Even when I got to 419 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: the it was fortunate to get to the NBA. I 420 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: still coach the same way because I think a coach 421 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 3: is just an extension of like a parent or a 422 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 3: family member, if you do it the right way and 423 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 3: to build the trust that you need to be able 424 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: to able to coach a player, you have to build 425 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 3: a relationship with them first, and so I focus on 426 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: the relationships with my players as opposed to trying to 427 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: just be their coach. And I think that's really important, 428 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 3: especially in this day and age with where a lot 429 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 3: of our young men are. I think it's really important 430 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: and that we connect with them on level sides player coach. 431 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because you grew up in LA. 432 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: You're in high school during the riots, right, I mean, 433 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: you talk about trivia like your dad's legend Uila he 434 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: gets fired by, Like You've been through a lot of 435 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: all kinds of different stuff. But when you became a 436 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: high school coach in Venice in two thousand, those kids 437 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: don't know any of that. They don't know any of that, 438 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: like literally any of them. And how do you weave 439 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: that into your teachings and message or is it like, look, 440 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm making references. It's like the Bill Cosby thing, like 441 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: you and I know obviously, like let's just take Bill Cosby. Okay, 442 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: so you mentioned Bill Cosby day and you actually almost 443 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: have to like apologize, but hold on, you take the 444 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: right if you take the context of the time he was. 445 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: What he did was groundbreaking, right, number one show on television. 446 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: It was the first show ever that was what was 447 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: was all black like it was during a It was 448 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: completely different than anything that had ever been done. And 449 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: and this is a big thing. It was there was 450 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: a lot of family values taught into it, right, you 451 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: had mom and dad in the home, incredibly educated black 452 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: doctor was the role that he played. And so like 453 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: if you try and reference like, hey, when I was 454 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: a kid Bill Cosby, Like whoa Bill Cosby? Like, they 455 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: have no concept of the people, the time, the place, 456 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: like your dad, the influence he had on so many 457 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: different people. Are you able to draw those stories and 458 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: make them part of your coaching throughout, Like just go 459 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: back to Venice High School for five years. Were you 460 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: able to weave that in or is it it's too 461 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: far in the past for them to conceptualize. 462 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: No, I really was. 463 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: Able to weave that in because you know, my brother 464 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 3: Jalaw was my assistant coach, so there was close connections 465 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: to all of those things. And the big thing that 466 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: happened was, even though my dad had had a stroke 467 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 3: four years prior, my dad was essentially a part of 468 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 3: our coaching staff. He came to every game, came to 469 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 3: practices when he could. And what I did with my 470 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 3: team my first year team was I took them to 471 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: UCLA and we went to the Hall of Fame so 472 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 3: they could have an understanding of the tradition that we 473 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: were trying to build and follow behind. Obviously I wasn't 474 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: Coach wouldn't, and we didn't have a Walt Hazard or 475 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 3: Bill Walton or lou ause Cinder at the time, but 476 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 3: it was those same values and character traits that we 477 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 3: were looking for in players and trying to build in 478 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: our players. So they met Coach would and they all 479 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 3: got autograph pyramids of success. 480 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: I used the pyramid of success. I exposed them to that. 481 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 3: UCLA tradition that was so rich running through our city 482 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 3: as we were kids, and I tried to like revitalize 483 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 3: that through my program, because you know, why wouldn't you 484 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: try to reconnect back to that championship atmosphere that was 485 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 3: built by coach wouldn't. And it was built around the 486 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: pyramid of success, which was about like high character, you know, 487 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 3: and all the. 488 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: Different things that were important to it. 489 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 3: And so I made the connections, I think very organically. 490 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: Lucius Allen would come and stop by practice and do 491 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 3: a clinic. You know, I didn't have an ego, so 492 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 3: Darln Cook would come in and you workouts with my guys. 493 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: And so I brought. 494 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: Pros in to come and play against us. You know, 495 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 3: Toby Bailey and those guys we had all just finished. 496 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 3: So you know, Toby would need a gym to come hooping, 497 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 3: and I would open the doors for Toby to come 498 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 3: in and play ball while he was pursuing his pro career. 499 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 3: You know, Ricohans pray young Matt Barnes. In later years, 500 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 3: Julianne McCoy was still around. So I brought those guys 501 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: in and they would, you know, beat the hell out 502 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: of my team. But the lessons they learned playing against 503 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 3: those guys were so valuable and it connected them to 504 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 3: that UCLA history. And then again like having my dad 505 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: sitting directly behind my fan every game right next to 506 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 3: where I was. For me, you know, it was just 507 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: incredible because it was like I got to coach with 508 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 3: my dad and my brother at the same time and 509 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: always give them credit for being the people who pushed 510 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: me in the coaching more than anybody. 511 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 2: And so I think that's the way we connected. It was, 512 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 2: you know, the my dad was present. 513 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 3: He wasn't like this mythological character that I spoke about 514 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: and all his accomplishments. And during that time he was 515 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: working for the Lakers, so he was getting the championship rings, 516 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: and so I would have him wear one of the rings. 517 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: By the time they had the three peet. 518 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: I would wear one, my Dad would wear one, and 519 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: Jiala would wear the other one. 520 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 3: And so I brought not only the UCLA legacy there, 521 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: but I brought the Laker legacy into it as well. 522 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: By showing them, Man, this stuff, this stuff is real. 523 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: You can touch these, you can have one of these 524 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 3: one day, you can you can beat one of those guys. 525 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 3: And so I think by making it for them and 526 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: giving them the chance to like actually touch that history, 527 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: I think that was like earth shattering for us. Man. 528 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 3: It really took my program to another level in a 529 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: short time. 530 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: What was it like to then go join the Lakers organization? 531 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: Man? That was that was like crazy the way it happened. 532 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 3: I was at University important of the year before Michael Holton, 533 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 3: another UCLA guy who hired Sure, we get fired, we 534 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 3: get fired. 535 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: In April. I come home. I was just I went 536 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: back to what I was doing as a high school coach, 537 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: taking care of my pops. 538 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: And after we would work out in the morning, we 539 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 3: would go up to the Laker facility. 540 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: And we popping there. 541 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 3: B Shaws on one end working guards out, Kurt Rampus 542 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 3: is on the other end, and the ball's bouncing all 543 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 3: over the place, and you know, Kurt bad Hips is 544 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 3: chasing the ball. So I volunteered for Rebound one day, 545 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 3: ended up volunteering for like two. 546 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 2: Or three weeks. They went on vacation. 547 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 3: Right before training camp started, and they wanted to show 548 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 3: down the workouts but buying them Chris men think Sasha 549 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 3: was there at the time. 550 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: They were like, you know, why don't you just let 551 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: us work out what has like? Let him let him 552 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: keep it going. 553 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: So I kept the workouts going and text Winner showed 554 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 3: up very next week, so I do my workout and 555 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 3: then text sends me, sits me down and starts to, 556 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 3: you know, inquire about who I am. And you know, 557 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 3: he's like, I remember you from when we were here 558 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 3: the first time. I'm like, yeah, I'm Walk's son and 559 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 3: I've been coaching. I just got fired at University of Portland. 560 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: He's like, man, I really like your energy and what 561 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 3: you do. He started teaching me to triumph by himself. 562 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 3: So he would teach me to triangle for like two 563 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: hours and then take me on the court after I'd 564 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: just been for two hours and make me go through 565 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 3: a triangle workout for another hour and a half, two hours, 566 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 3: you know, text and so he went to Mitch cup 567 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 3: Chack and Phil Jackson. He along with Brian Shaw and 568 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 3: Jim Clemens, went and Craig Hodges and. 569 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: Implored them to hire me. 570 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: So I started off Doug as I was just doing 571 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 3: advanced scouting, making two hundred and fifty dollars a scouting report, 572 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 3: and I was doing player development literally minimum wage. I 573 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 3: had to fill out time sheets the whole nwe at 574 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: the end of every week. 575 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: And that's how I got started with the Lakers. 576 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: And it was just man, it was like, my dream 577 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 3: was to learn the triangle and work for Phil Jackson. 578 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: Literally that's what I wanted. 579 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: And here I am, and I have this opportunity even 580 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: though I don't care what I was making. Like I'm 581 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: in the building, I'm in the video room, I'm I'm 582 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 3: getting a chance to watch Phil put a practice plan 583 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: together with his coaching staff, and they're entrusting me to 584 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 3: go on the court and work guys out through the 585 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 3: triangle because text taught me so. 586 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 2: And then you know, we're la kids, man, We're LA boys. 587 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 3: We're you know, we're I was the biggest Laker fan 588 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 3: history of world. 589 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: Now I'm a Now I'm a Laker, like you kidding me? 590 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: So it was it was the I mean, it was 591 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 3: like that you know moment where you want somebody to 592 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 3: pinch you to tell you if this is really not 593 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 3: And you know, then Kobe, who I met in ninety 594 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 3: six because jelly Bean and my dad were really close 595 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 3: friends from Philadelphia. 596 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: Sure, jelly Bean, you. 597 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: Stay with my dad in the summers when my dad 598 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 3: was a pro and he being a Philly jelly Bean 599 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: was stayed with my dad and you know they would play. 600 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 2: So he introduced me and Kobe in ninety six. 601 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 3: So when I come back and now I'm about to 602 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: be a coach, you know, he's you know, you know 603 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 3: how Cobe is, It's like, oh, you are. 604 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: You a coach? Now you turn them into an old man, 605 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: you know, mow you. 606 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: I was like out, Like my first year, all I 607 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 3: did was Clipper games for like the first three months, 608 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 3: until I proved that I could put the report together, 609 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 3: that I was trustworthy enough, you know. 610 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: Being on time with my reports, information was accurate. Once 611 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: they got on. 612 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 3: As I got to that point, they started sending me 613 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 3: out of the road and I was doing like seventeen days, 614 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: fifteen game, fifteen city trips, and it was like getting 615 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 3: your PhD in Basketball. 616 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: Show Quick, help me out, Help me out when you 617 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: putting these s game perst together. How did they want 618 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: them to get like try and try and pay me 619 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: a mental picture of what looks like because this is 620 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: before the days of Synergy, Right, I paid. 621 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: A tested synergy, which is crazy. I'm dating myself. So Phil, 622 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: you know, Pheel is different. 623 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: So Phil wanted one page, three paragraph narrative that described 624 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 3: what the team did and how they. 625 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: Played literally single space. Right. 626 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: I had to write these narratives like I was like, 627 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 3: I was a history major, so it's perfect. So I 628 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 3: had to write like a paper for every game, and 629 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: then I had to do the diagrams of all the 630 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 3: plays that I saw. And then I also had to 631 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 3: send in a timesheet. But this is the days before 632 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: you could scan an email too, so these were like 633 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 3: fifteen page faxes. So I'm carrying around these big diagram 634 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 3: books everywhere I go, and I'm doing diagrams by hand, 635 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 3: and then I'm typing the word this this reparagraph. 636 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: One page narrative for Phil to read so he can 637 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: understand how our opponents played. 638 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: And it was actually the best thing for me because 639 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 3: it really made you think analytically and be really efficient 640 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: with the information that you gave back to the coaching staff. 641 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 3: And it was it was a hell of a hell 642 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 3: of a way to break in, But that was the 643 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 3: way he wanted. That's the way he had always done it. 644 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: It wasn't any fas scout and fast draw and all 645 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 3: the stuff we have now. Like I said, I saw 646 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: the first versions of all this stuff, So I'm like 647 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 3: the old head in the game. Now. 648 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: Was it was it better that. 649 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 2: I hate? 650 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 3: I don't like when when we as older guys, say 651 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: oh it was better than I think it was. 652 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: It was a great way to learn. 653 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 3: I wish some of these young guys got to learn 654 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: it that way, and all the work wasn't done, you know, 655 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 3: for us when we use these things, I wouldn't say 656 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 3: it was better because it wasn't as efficient. 657 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: You know. 658 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: You couldn't get as many things done, and you couldn't 659 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: get the information back to the coaches as. 660 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: Quickly as possible. You know. 661 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 3: Sometimes b Shaw would call me and be like, man, 662 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 3: you know you sent me a twenty page fact but 663 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 3: I only got seventeen. 664 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: So then we'd have to figure out what pages were missing, 665 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: what jam did the factor? You know. 666 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 3: So it definitely wasn't better, But I think it was 667 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 3: a better way to learn because you had to be 668 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 3: more involved and the computer didn't do as much for you. 669 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 3: But again, it was not as efficient and you couldn't 670 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 3: convey the information as easily as you can now, So 671 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 3: there's no way I can say it's better. 672 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: All right, that's it for part one of Rashiet Hazard. 673 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: Part two will drop that thing very very soon, and 674 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: in part two you'll learn what so many people don't 675 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: know about Walt Hazzard his dad as a coach. He 676 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: was a groundbreaking coach as the head coach at the 677 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: UCLA Bruins. How So, you'll have to find out in 678 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: the next All Ball podcast. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is 679 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: All Ball.