WEBVTT - Selects: How Disgust Works 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:10.600 How did everybody Ugh Blair, Blair Blair blah. Yeah, I 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:12.840 think you know where this is headed. It's our episode 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.360 on disgust. This is a Josh pic way back in 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:21.880 the day. This is March twenty nineteen. And I thought, initially, well, 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.439 what in the world are we going to talk about 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.200 with disgust? I don't I'm not sure I get this one, Josh, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.640 but he knew, as he always does, that there was 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.480 something more to it than meets the eye. 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:33.720 And he was right. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.839 So check it out and learn all about disgust right here, 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:38.800 right now. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:39.480 Blah. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.360 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.120 You and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.640 there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:06.560 and this is discussed on Stuff you should Know about disgust. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:08.520 You gotta say it like that. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.479 I'm excited about this one, Chuck, And I don't know why. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:12.880 I have no idea. 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.320 I think you do. If you stopped and really thought 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.479 about it, that's fine, that's fine. But if you stopped 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.080 and thought about it, you would say, yes, I know 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.560 exactly why, Josh. And it is as follows Colon quotes 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.600 because this is one of those things that science hasn't 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.279 fully explained, which means there's a lot of interesting theories, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.360 which means we just get to like talk smack the 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:33.880 whole time. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.120 It's interesting. This is one of those where I was 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.200 reading it and I was I mean, it was sort 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.880 of interesting. But then I was like, why would anyone 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:42.600 even study this? 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.480 I that's I mean, that's a good question. That's a 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.840 good question. I think one of the reasons that I'm 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.120 fascinated by it, And then I'm sure one of the 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.480 reasons of these I mean, to dedicate your career to 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.760 studying disgust. It is kind of a bizarre idea, but 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.320 one of the main researchers in the study of disgust 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.800 is a guy named Paul Rosen. He's kind of like 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.880 the godfather, maybe even the father of the field. Yeah, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.400 he says, sure, but he's been doing it longer than anybody, 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.600 so he's the He's the pappy as they say in 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:23.119 the hills. He said that to him, discussed is the thing, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:29.400 the emotion, the experience that makes humans human, that that 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.000 it is discussed that separates us from the other animals 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.480 that we share the animal kingdom with so much so 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.119 that we actually may use disgust to separate ourselves from 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.200 the rest of the animals. Okay, that is pretty fascinating 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.399 and it's worth exploring too, because I think it says 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:50.000 a lot about us as as humans and as animals. Yeah, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.040 so that's why that's the answer to your question. How 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:54.320 about that? 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:54.960 All right? 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.840 No, I get why somebody would want to say, I 0:02:57.880 --> 0:02:59.639 guess I'm talking about allocating funds. 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:00.359 Just study it. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:01.440 Oh gotcha. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.560 It just seems like a strange thing to sink money into. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.040 Well, I mean, if the humanities are going to sink 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.040 money into anything, what makes us the most human would be? 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.480 It makes it makes sense according to one guy, Right, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.800 I love it. Let's talk about gross things. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.560 Okay, so we're going to So so this, this whole 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.359 idea of studying it, of studying disgust, is actually pretty new. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.200 Rosen didn't really start until like the seventies, and it 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.880 wasn't until the nineties that it really got it really 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.880 picked up, which we'll kind of get into. But prior 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.280 to that, it was basically just philosophers who who were 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:39.480 talking about disgust. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.640 Right, yes, I think, and I'm not sure about studying, 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.320 But at least as far as I think, it seems 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:46.920 to me like it was more of a like where's 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.680 the boundary as far as what can we write about? 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:51.600 What can we talk about, and what can we perform 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.480 right and still sell books and tickets right? 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.080 Like we want we want people to be tantalized at 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.000 the thought of being grossed out or disgusted, but not 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.080 actually be disgusted. It is a fine line that's walked, you. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.320 Know, no, of course, and it's subjective, it is. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.480 But the other thing about Discuss that's pretty interesting is 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.880 it also appears to be universal. It's like it's a 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.160 universal reaction. But what disgusts people is not universal. It's 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.800 culturally bound I guess, right, maybe personal too, sure. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:24.040 I think totally personal. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.240 So the over time, like as you know, Discuss kind 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.280 of moved out of the realm of philosophers and into science. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.920 There were a couple people who kind of made contributions 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.880 early on in the field. When was Charles Darwin. He 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.840 wrote a treatise on it, and his big thing was 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:45.120 that disgust was related to taste, which is true to 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.360 an extent, but that was Darwin's big thing, and then 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:53.480 later on there was a guy, a psychoanalyst named andros angy'all, 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:59.920 and Andres Angyall basically said that no, no, no, discuss 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.200 is not really related to taste. It's the it comes 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:06.520 from the idea or the thought of putting something horrific 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.080 into the mouth, which again kind of makes sense to 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.799 a certain extent. But then when Rosen and friends came along, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.880 it really started to take off and they actually managed 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.960 to kind of categorize disgust into a few categories, which 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.840 is what you do when you categorize things. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.400 Yeah, there's the first one is core discussed, and that's 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.120 what you think of if you like, you know, if 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.880 poop or I mean, everyone has their own triggers, but 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:38.400 if like vomit or feces or like a like entrails 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.520 or something like that's cored discussed. That's an encounter with 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.560 some sort of like physical contaminant that makes you, you know, 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:49.880 make that face right, and. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.240 That face specifically, that's another universal thing too, apparently, the faces. 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.920 It's called the gape, which is your mouth is open, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.200 your tongue may or may not be sticking out, your 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.280 nose is wrinkled, and your upper lip is raised. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:05.680 Actually I don't do that with my mouth open, though, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:07.159 so you just. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.640 Kind of do the nose wrinkle in the upper lip. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.080 I guess like this, but I don't open my mouth. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:16.600 So that's why I sort of like, I don't know 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:18.160 when it comes to stuff like this, I'm a little 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:23.279 when they make these sweeping statements like everyone makes this face. Well, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.159 everyone may make a variation of a face of a. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.560 Like kind of a there's like a universal set of 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.960 characteristics to the face that you could choose from that 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.280 would fall into disgust like that. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.080 I don't know if you choose anything but maybe your 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.600 natural reaction. But like I don't open my mouth, And 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.200 when I read that, like everyone opens their mouth, like, no, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:45.120 that's not true. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.720 So I think one of the reasons why there is 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.800 like this idea of it being universal is because evolutionary 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.400 psychology is we'll see has said like, yes, this is 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.279 our realm, We've got this, we're gonna explain this one 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.720 and two fully, it basically has to be universal. So 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.360 I think that's another thing about the point where the 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.920 study of disgust is right now, Like there's a lot 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.520 of good ideas, some of which have kind of been 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.440 shown to be probably true thanks to the Wonder Machine, 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.960 but it's still it's not fully explained, and so there 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.200 are some ideas and descriptions that make it seem kind 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.360 of wacky too, right. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:22.560 Yeah, for sure. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.320 That second kind of discuss getting back to that, was 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.440 animal nature discussed, which is apparently these are things that 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.880 anything that reminds us that we're really animals, and that 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.480 could there could be a wide range of things there, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:42.160 from like some people think people eating with their hands 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.560 is disgusting, and I think that would qualify under animal 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.000 nature because like you're eating like an animal. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:48.679 Let's say. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.440 Sex, and we'll get into that more later, but apparently 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:58.200 there's a baseline discussed for sex, which I'm not so 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:03.000 sure about that one either. And then hygiene is another one. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.120 Poor hygiene is the animal nature discussed. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.480 Yeah, And another one is the like like you said, entrails, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:14.679 something that's called the the body envelope, the ideal body 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.600 envelope being violated, whether it's like there's a deformity or 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.480 there is like some sort of like an open wound 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.080 or something like that. They think that this whole animal 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.720 nature thing, that all these things remind us that we 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.839 are animals and that disgust can be triggered by that 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.800 reminder that we are that we are in fact animals, 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.040 which is kind of weird. But we'll get into explanations 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:40.520 for that later. I can't wait. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:41.480 That's right. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.839 And the final one is moral discussed, which and this 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.079 is one where you know, you can be disgusted with 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:54.079 someone's behavior or you know, disgusted with like something a 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.959 politician does, or disgusted with racism or bigotry something like that. 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.199 Right, And that one makes like the least amount of 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:03.959 sense if you think about it like that. Okay, the 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.880 first two were just kind of like, all right, we're like, 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.400 it's animal related. We might have issues with being animals, 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.280 so we're kind of disgusted by ourselves at the thought 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.559 that we're animals. Maybe it's a bit more of a 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.520 stretch than that core discussed, Like core disgusted makes this 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.320 most sense out of all of them. Agreed. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.000 Uh yeah, And I don't even think that the moral discussed. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.400 I think that's a different type of thing altogether. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.280 So that other people have proposed that that like they're 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.240 like some people have said, well, English speakers are just 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.000 misusing the word discussed. They're actually talking right, well, they've 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.120 done They've done studies of people in the Wonder Machine 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:47.160 that shows that the region of the brain, the anterior insula, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.640 that's usually that usually lights up when you're showing a 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.480 picture of like dog poop and said you're gonna eat this, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.280 you know your your anterior insula lights up. That same 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:02.040 region lights up when people are disgusted with other people morally. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.360 Remember the ultimatum game. I don't remember. It used to 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.160 come up all the time back in the day in 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.160 our episodes. Yeah, but so if somebody was given a 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.880 really really low offer I take it or leave it 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.000 offer that was so low and so unfair that the 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.840 person said, I'm just leaving it. I actually don't want 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.760 this free money because I find it insulting. That same 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.800 part of the brain that is triggered by like fecal 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.520 disgust is also triggered, which supports the idea that there 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.559 actually is a moral dimension to disgust and that we 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.200 experience it in the same way. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:38.960 Yeah, that's interesting. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.640 It is interesting, But it is like the it's the 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.560 most tenuous of those three, I think. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.480 So the way this all started out, there are a 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.520 bunch of theories, but it makes sense that it might 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:55.319 have been sort of an offshoot of distaste, which is, 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.679 you know, your body is conditioned thanks to you know, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.800 evolution to if you eat something that's bitter or rotten, 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.679 like your instinct, your taste instinct is to throw it 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.600 out and get rid of it, and it's a defense 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.040 mechanism to save your life. And so the ideas that 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.280 discuss developed out of that and that it's just simply 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:23.000 an evolutionary trait that could have you know, saved Tiktook's life, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:24.840 you know, however many years ago. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.719 Yeah, And there's evidence apparently that this distaste, which is 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.480 basically is an involuntary reaction, is like dropping something that's hot, 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.240 Like you don't stop and think like wow, this cooking 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.200 pan is about five well and five hundred and fifty 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.600 degrees fahrenheight, and then you drop it. I should probably 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.439 drop it like you just dropped the pant. Distaste is 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.880 the same exact thing, and they've actually seen it elsewhere 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.040 in the animal kingdom. So we've probably experienced distaste since 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.240 before we were humans, and it's just spitting something out 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:01.720 that doesn't seem right in an effort to I guess, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.120 keep the body from becoming polluted with disease, right, and 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.520 they think that distaste somehow became a behavior that was 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.319 laid over this ex or I'm sorry, disgust as was 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.839 a behavior that became laid over this existing structure of distaste. 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.480 Yeah, And that's interesting to me because that means that 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.920 it becomes all of a sudden. It's not like you 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:28.120 have to eat poop to be disgusted, right, Like the 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.960 mere sight of poop now can discuss somebody. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.280 Yes, uh, and that just happened over time, I think. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.280 So that is why Rosen says this is like disgust 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.400 is the defining characteristic of humanity because they suspect that 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.680 other animals, at the very least almost all other animals 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.079 don't have the cognitive capacity to use their imagination to 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:58.000 imagine themselves eating poop and see and being disgusted by 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.640 it as a result. Right, So that's why they say 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:06.079 disgust separates humans from animals because it requires imagination to 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:10.000 go from an involuntary reaction of spitting out food to 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.360 not even getting to the point where the food is 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.120 in your mouth. You can imagine that you would have 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.559 that reaction and experience the emotion of disgust. So you 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.480 don't have to go through that process, that actually very 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.959 dangerous process of eating something rotten to figure out that 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.559 you shouldn't be eating it. You can imagine it beforehand. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.960 And that's the function that discussed at least core disgust 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.439 provides humanity. It advances us. We don't have to learn 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.760 through trial and error over and over again not to 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.720 eat rotten meat. We just know on some very basic 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.559 level that that is a disgusting thing to do, and 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:43.880 we have a reaction to it. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.360 Or you want to take a break, Yeah, all right, everyone, 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.319 we're going to be right back right after this with 0:13:48.520 --> 0:14:03.319 more disgust. So I think we should go back to 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.720 Tiktook and just like how this actually may have worked 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.520 back in the day, Let's say Tiktook and his buddy 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.240 Mockmock are strolling along the tundra. 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.599 You know, Chuck, after eleven years, I am surprised that 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.720 we have a new character, and I am very pleased 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:21.440 Mock Mock. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.760 Yeah, well, don't get used to him, because Mack Mack 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.360 is he's about to die for Mock Mak. So TikTok 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.480 and Mackmacher walking along the tundra they find an old, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:40.920 dead antelope, and Mockmock is like, well, this doesn't smell great, 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.920 but I tell you what, I'm going to eat this 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.800 thing because I don't have this genetic trait because my 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.640 mom ate this stuff, uh and it's fine, And Tooktooks like, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.880 I don't know, my friend, it looks and smells gross. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.200 I do have this genetic trait, so I'm going to 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.240 pass on that. So Mockmock's like, you're a sucker. I'm 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.760 going to chow down on this rotten antelope. And then 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.960 Mockmock gets sick and dies before Mockmock can have any babies. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.520 And then if this happens thousands and tens of thousands 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.040 of times over a huge population, you can see how 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.040 over time it would be like any physical evolutionary trait 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.160 that might evolve over time, and all of a sudden, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.520 Tuktook's family is thriving today in the United States, all 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.440 healthy descendants of Tuktook and Mockmock is long gone. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.120 Right because Tuktook was able to pass along his genes 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.920 of being disgusted by rotten meat, and Mockmock died before 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.960 he could pass his genes of not being disgusted along. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:49.840 So nature or natural selection or revolutions selected for Tuktooks right. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.240 Right, And Tiktook was a prolific lover, as we all know. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.960 And I imagine Mockmock in his dying words gasping, I 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.720 regret never having. 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.440 Seen the ocean. Yeah. Probably, so. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.000 It's a good mockmch Everyone doesn't know, but it's true. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:12.000 That was a great so chuck. That's the that's the 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:18.200 evolutionary psychology basis for explaining how disgust came along and 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.520 was passed along, right, And it makes sense on a 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.920 very basic level, but it starts to get less and 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.600 less sensible, as you've already pointed out, as we start 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.680 to add more and more inputs of disgust. Right, like, yes, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.680 it makes sense that either somehow the idea of not 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.320 eating meat was passed along, either genetically or even you 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.520 could say Tuktook went back to the hunter gatherer tribe 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.240 and said, hey, let me tell you what happened to Mockmock. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.800 It was crazy. He ate some rancid antelope, which I 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:50.480 guess we all kind of thought was okay up to 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.680 this point. But let me tell you, steer clear of 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.360 the rancid antelope. You don't want to have anything to 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.040 do that because it just killed Mockmack, and everyone trusting 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.960 tuktook in, not just assuming that he hit Mockmock with 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.560 a rock or something out in the wilderness and left 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.240 him to die, that he actually did die from eating antelope. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.000 This became passed along. This is another way it could 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.240 have happened, and that this like ancient knowledge. We just 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.119 lost where the ancient knowledge came from, that was actually 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.320 TikTok seeing Mockmock die, and instead it just became something 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.800 that we came to think of as like instinct over time, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.440 you just don't eat rancid meat. But really what it is, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.760 rather than being passed along genetically, it was a I guess, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.640 a meme, an idea that was passed along generation to generation, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.000 and it became so ingrained that we just confuse it 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.920 for genes or instinct as well, which is another explanation 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.280 of it. But both of them have like an evolutionary 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:45.640 component to it for sure. 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.880 Yeah, and then over time that even changes to where 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.359 like it's not like humans, like let's talk about a 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.200 human body then like a dead a dead human body 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:57.399 a corpse. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.040 Let me get my poking stick. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:01.320 Well, you probably. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.800 Wouldn't poke it because your evolutionary instinct is to probably 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:04.560 just stay away. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:05.000 From that body. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:06.280 Well, that's what the stick is for. 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.520 And it's not just because like, well. 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.440 Maybe partially because a dead body just might creep someone out, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.560 but there's also an evolutionary basis to avoid that body, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.639 get it out of the house, and bury it because 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.800 it may have been diseased. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:23.720 And they've even done studies. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:25.960 That was a study in two thousand and four in 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:31.280 Biology Letters, just the greatest teen science mag out there. 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.080 The Tiger Beat in Biological Science. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.040 So Biology Letters said that they didn't study where they 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.120 found the images of objects that held what was called 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.200 a potential disease threat, where rated is more disgusting. So 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.280 this is just the idea that, again, because of evolution, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:56.000 we are have trained ourselves to avoid somebody who looks sick. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.760 Okay, now we get to another big chink in the armor. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.359 Ask me, where did we get the idea that a 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.120 body caused disease and that you could become polluted by 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.760 some weird magical transference of this disease by handling or 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.879 coming in close contact with the body. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:14.880 Like pre germ theory. 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.280 Pre germ theory, germ theory is very new, it's about 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.600 one hundred and fifty years old. Almost on the nose. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.680 We're talking about people's aversion to dead bodies and corpses 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.200 for eons before that, hundreds of years, if not thousands 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:29.400 and thousands of years, right. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.120 Well, maybe even more like what if, like I mean, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.320 what if someone just going. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.520 Like back in the day where people like, oh, that's great, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.640 come here and give me, give me some sugar, right, 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.840 or were people always sort of repulsed by that? 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.280 Yeah, I don't know, and we don't we don't know. 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.120 We can't say. We can only go as far back 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.800 as any historical references we can find. But you can 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.679 make a pretty good case that an aversion to something 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.359 like that or a dead body goes back much further 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.560 than germ theory. Yeah, so you come to that question, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.119 where did we get this idea? Where did we get 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.800 this understanding on a very basic fundamental level that corpses 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.320 are to be avoided so much so that we are 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.440 disgusted by them. And even if you're not disgusted, like 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.720 I want to wretch if I see a dead body 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.080 in person, which you may be surprised. I think a 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.040 lot of people would be very surprised that if they 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.480 actually did see a dead body, they would be they 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:27.480 would probably wretch. 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.800 It depends on you know, what's going on the state 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:31.080 it's in. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.320 Yeah, if it's a viscerated or something like that, or 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:37.440 the smell I think also true. But the idea that 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.560 there's something that is keeping you from avoiding it, whether 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.520 it's the creeps, whether it's discussed, whether it's some form 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.960 of a version that is that is acting to put 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.320 distance between you and the polluting entity. This dead body. 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.480 Where did that come from before germ theory? That's my 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.879 big question that I haven't seen it answered anywhere. It's 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.520 where did we get that? Again? Was it somebody handled 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.720 the dead body and like became directly sick from it, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.680 so obviously that even like took Cook could say, yes, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:13.920 the dead body caused this, so we should steer clear 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.600 of hanging out around dead bodies. Or was there some 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:23.159 sort of awareness on a very basic level that we 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.960 haven't figured out how to explain yet that that kept 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:32.399 generations and generations of humans relatively healthy before the advent 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.240 of germ theory and our understanding of it. 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:39.439 It is a bit of a mind experiment. It is like, uh, 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.680 this perhaps the very sound of someone very ill and 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:45.320 hawking up. 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.000 You know, phlegm sounds. 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.359 Gross, right, But like like you say, though, before germ theory, 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.720 before they knew that that would make that was sickness 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.720 or that made someone sick, maybe people were like, oh, 0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:59.480 come in here and do that in my face. I 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.040 love that sound, right, but it just doesn't seem likely. 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:04.600 It's like ASMR to me. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.080 I don't know, man, It's very hard to wrap your 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:07.480 head around. 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.160