WEBVTT - Why would anyone want multiple spouses? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.920 from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:22.840 the podcast The Swing. In this podcast on iTunes, is it? Yeah, 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.840 Stuff you Should Know? I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.680 Chuck Bryant in the flesh. We're both wearing um robes 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:38.640 and mustaches. Right, swinging swinging? Chuck as into swing? Yes, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.639 you have you ever heard of swinging? Yeah? I think 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.480 I told the story once about the Atlanta Swingers Club 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.559 was very close to well, no, it was just called 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.199 the Atlanta Swingers Club. Well, it's pretty straight. I may 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:52.600 have said this, but it was a long time ago. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.680 It was very close to my phone number growing up, 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:57.920 and we used to get calls all the time for 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.880 people seeking the Swingers Club. And being the Baptist family, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.360 it was like, you know, my mom basically made them 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.680 seem like they were. It was the devil calling. I'm 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.120 sure pretty funny. Yeah. So um, In this very special 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.319 episode of Stuff you Should Know, we find out what 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.240 fuel young Chuck Bryant's budding sexuality That turns out it 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.880 was misplaced phone calls, the Swingers Club and continued sexual 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.200 dysfunction because now that I'm adult, I'm like, they're just 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.440 trying to have a good time. Yeah, hey man, it's 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.760 not my deal. But you know, you don't want to 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:34.280 say you don't want to put your hang ups on 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.199 other people, right, Yeah, that's a drag. Well it depends, man. Um, 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.320 we're talking today about polygamy, and there's a whole lot 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.480 of people putting their hang ups on polygamists. They have 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.920 a hard time here in the States, they do. But 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.600 before we get into that, chuck um, before we get 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.120 into the swinging this podcast around. Yes, um, well, let's 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.520 get some administrative details out of the way. Yes, very 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.480 important an announcement. This is like that. I know you're 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.360 tired of hearing about it if you don't live in Atlanta, 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.680 But this is the last Southeast one of the last 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.200 chances we'll have to say. We're having our Trivia night 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.960 in Atlanta October. It's a Wednesday block out from six 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.440 pm two about eleven pm. Yes, you're going to show 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.760 up to work on Thursday. Not on all four cylinders, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.200 depending on how many cylinders you have, um, but you're 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.840 going to have had a great time the night before. Why, Chuck, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.920 what's going to have happened on Wednesday October? We're gonna 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.560 play bar trivia and we're gonna have daily shows. John 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.320 Hodgman sitting beside us, Yes, Onion editor in chief, Joe 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.080 Randazzo and uh Aquitine Hunger for Sunce squid Billy's co 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.960 creator Dave Willis Willis nice, Yes, and plus us and 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.280 our families and Jerry, will your mom be there? Yeah? 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.840 How adorable? And I hope my brother is your dad coming? 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.480 I don't know. He finally went out and bought an 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.480 iPod to listen to what his son was doing. Yeah. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.640 I don't think he's turned the thing on yet, and 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.440 this is months ago. I think my mom will be 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.480 didn't he show you the iPod? I bet him at 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.280 my birthday play? Yeah? Yeah he did. He's like, look 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.760 and you're like, what is that? Right? And it was 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.120 a nano even if he said it's an iPod, Chuck, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.280 I'm surprised you don't know that you're in it. So 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.320 that's what's going on Wednesday October to night before Tuesday, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.520 October twelve, Our buddies and de facto house band, The 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.440 Henry Clay people are playing a show at the Drunken 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.600 Unicorn on East Ponds, and we're gonna be there, and 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:27.920 Jerry's gonna be there, and hopefully a couple of our 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.680 buddies coming in from out of town Randazo, maybe Hodgman. 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.920 We'll see and uh see some rock and roll and 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.560 hang out with the band. They're cool guys. Yeah, it's 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.080 like two nights of fun in a row. Yes, it's 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.000 going to be a fun week. Yes. Yeah, So that's 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:48.280 what's going on this October twelve in preparation of Halloween. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.600 Now back too, look at me? Yes, all right, so 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.120 let's um get back to polygamy Chuck. Remember Warren Jeff's Yeah, 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:57.960 thanks for this article, because I didn't really have an 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.960 intro except for mention of Big Love, which I've never 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.560 seen of you. You know, I watched Big Love initially 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.480 and bailed on it, not because it was bad, it 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.040 just didn't have the time. But I've heard it's really good. Sure. Yeah, 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.600 well it's acclaimed series hbos. You can't go wrong with 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.400 Mr Bill Paxson. That kys a class act. But back 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.680 to Warren Jeff's Yeah, not to be confused with Bill Paxton. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.719 Bill Paxson plays a polygamist on tv UM Warren Jeff's 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.760 is a polygamist in real life. Right at the very 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:33.520 least he is. Uh. He's been indicted for allegedly fostering uh, 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.640 the marriage between a fourteen year old and a seventeen 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:39.760 year old. Right, fourteen year old and her nineteen year 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.440 old cousin. Yes, some would call him a peederist, Josh, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.919 and not just a polygamist. He couldn't be a pederist 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.839 unless he is a homosexual. Because Petter asked, you refer 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:52.120 specifically to the child realistation of boys. I didn't know that. Well, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.880 then he would be a child molester. Then, in many 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:59.039 people's eyes, allegedly Chuck allegedly allegedly allegedly. Well, he's in 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.159 jail for it, he's convicted of it. He has not 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:06.080 been convicted. He goes to he goes to trial in November. Well, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:07.840 he was found what was he found guilty of? Then 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.480 apparently they're they're having a hearing to find out if 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.440 he's one and the same as the person they were 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.480 looking for. No, no, no, that's in Texas. He's been 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.880 in jail for the uh. He was sentenced to two 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.640 consecutive prison terms of five years following his two thousand 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:28.080 seven conviction in Utah. Now there's new charges in Texas well. 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.880 They're trying to get him extra out into Texas and uh, 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:36.200 he much more serious charges were thrown out. I'm sorry, 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.720 Texas has a much more serious charges. So they threw 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.480 out even more charges in Arizona. This guy charges all 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.360 over the place, and so he is in jail in 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.800 Utah and they the governor signed an extradition weren't send 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.560 him to Texas in mid August, and but they denied it. 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.640 So they're it's they're waiting on a court ordered extradition basically, 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.719 and that may bring him five to nine nine years 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.960 that he and up to ten tho dollar five assaulted 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.680 a child under seventeen. Yeah, so that makes much child molester. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.920 He's got a lot of stuff against him. I'm gonna 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.080 just say allegedly all over the place because i have 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.880 to I have to admit I'm not percent of what 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.479 he's been charged with or convicted of. Okay, Um, but 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.520 get having charges all over the place is nothing new 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:27.920 for polygamists. Uh. Jeff's is the leader of a UM 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:33.360 sect of Mormonism called fundamentalist Mormons. Um, we should say 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.919 that the Church of Latter day Saints, the Mormons, although 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:42.000 UM frequently associated with polygamy, haven't really done so since 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.760 the nineteenth century. We'll get into um, the Mormons in 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:52.000 in there there there polygamist lifestyle later. But I think 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.200 I think it's fair to say that, you know, Jeff's 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.320 is not representative of the Mormon Church as a whole. No, 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.479 not at all. You know, UM, let's the basis. Okay, 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.800 let's talk about polygamy. What is it? There's like I 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.839 think people have a give the definition of polygamy chock well. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.000 Before the definition, let me just say that most Westerners 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:16.440 don't identify with anything but in monogamy. But culturally, worldwide 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.200 and in history, monogamy is in in in the minority. Actually, actually, 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.640 polygamous society is outnumbered by the hundreds monogamous societies. And 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.640 monogamy appears to be a Christian hang up because if 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.280 you go to um areas before the Christians got there, 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:37.160 pretty much everybody historically was polygamus right then the Christians 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.480 arrived and all of a sudden, there's monogamy everywhere. Rights 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.040 you know that yes, and among mammals as well, humans 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:49.960 are as monogamists are in the vast minority. Only about 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.480 three to five percent of all mammals engage in monogamy. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.239 The rest are polygamus. Right, So definition wise, I believe 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.120 it's polygamy is more than one spouse po gani is 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:06.280 more than one wife correct, Yes, So polygamy doesn't attach 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:12.160 gender or legality to it, it's just right. And then Paulyandry, yes, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.200 um is a woman having more than one husband, which 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.480 Jerry beforehand. It's not like women can have more than 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.720 one husband, especially if you are a member of the 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.520 Nimba people and Nepaul. Yeah, women there have and I 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.080 just think this is like a sitcom waiting to happen. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.680 Women there have to marry all the brothers of a family. Yeah, 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.400 so if you marry one brother, you get Darryl and Darryl. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.720 If you marry Larry, you get Daryl and Darryl as well. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.480 And it makes sense in a way for them because, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.840 uh it allows them to pull their resources as a 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.559 family hold onto family land, uh take care of their children. Well, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.320 it's very culturally specific, right, because the these this group 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:01.280 of people, there's about um members of the Niambian culture. UM. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.440 And they simply don't have enough land for each man 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.720 to go out on his own form a homestead in 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.440 a family. So it's it's very culturally bound. The reasons 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.640 for this UM and apparently it's fairly beneficial. There's a 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.880 lot of consolidation of family's bloodline and resources. Um. All 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.280 of the brothers have access sexual access to the woman, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.520 to the wife, right, we should That's something you're gonna hear. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.760 A lot of sexual access, which means you you can 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.880 get it on. They have access to getting sexual access. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.560 Each brother does. But they said they do allow them 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.920 to specify, like you were the father of this child. Right, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.880 they differentiate who's the father of which children? But they 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:49.080 all yeah, they all um contribute to caregiving child. Um. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.719 And also it's hierarchical. Hierarchical. I was wondering how like 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.360 who chose the wife right, um, And it's the oldest 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:02.280 brother and he's definitely the dominant husband. You know, if 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.239 I would rewrite the rules though, if I was a tribesman, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.240 I would say we should go with like the best 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.480 looking brother of the brother who has the most game. Yeah, 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.320 it's so we can all get the most attractive life 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.280 it has if the oldest brother is like a real nudge. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.520 But that's what I'm saying, like they just in case 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.439 the oldest brother is a nudge, he's still the dominant husband. 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.800 Although I'll bet just sibling rivalry trans is pain cultural. Yeah, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.040 so I'm sure that there there is like one that 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.080 has game. Is like, I got more sexual access to 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:36.120 her than Tony is a sitcom man, except it would 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.320 be like they would americanize it. It would be like 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.240 for American like guys from Brooklyn Brothers that would find 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.319 this woman tribesman and bring her to America and I'll 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.200 marry her. I could see Ed Burns doing that. I 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.560 could do. Yeah, you'd make them Catholic though, So Chuck, 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:57.400 that's the Nambian people. They are definitely a rarity, even 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:02.240 even rarer the Amazon Zoe tribe. Right. Yeah, that's multiple everything, right, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.360 multiple husbands and wives at the same time. It's just 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.200 basically like it's it's a free for all in the jungle. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.160 But it's not fair of us to make fun of that. 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.680 We're just laughing because I'm not making fun of ye. 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.160 That's their culture again. They think we're weird. Again, I 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:26.280 think that, man, this is such a potential. This is 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.960 just potential dynamite here. Yeah, but it's just different cultures. 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.440 They see your dad and his nanopod. But it's not 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.320 just that like there, there is there's some real there's 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:45.040 very real social like as in society um and biological 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:51.000 benefits to polygamy. But there's also some very um negative 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.120 social and personal drawbacks to right. Yeah, we'll get to 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.199 those two. Yeah, so well, what are we going to 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.679 talk about? Oh? Yeah, who else does it? Well, we'll 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.040 continue you with the nomenclature, just so you know. There's 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.960 also a bigamy that just catches legality to polygamy. Yeah. 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.319 Bigamy is is the law. It's when a man illegally 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.920 marries more than one woman and that is definitely illegal 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.800 in the United States. Well, it's the practice of polygamy 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.080 in a place where it's illegal illegal, Like no one, no, 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.439 in the United States, you can't practice polygamy, except I 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.400 think there's very small pockets in like Utah and Arizona 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.920 where it's actually legal. Yeah. Colorado City, Arizona, I think, 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:31.880 is one of like two places in the country where 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.280 it's actually legal, but federally is still illegal, right, I 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.280 I don't know, I have to say, but say, like 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.280 in Georgia, if there's no such thing as polygamy, there's 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.880 only biggam because polygamy is illegal. See yeah, okay, now 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.160 I get it. I just fun to make sure. Uh. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:53.520 Biggest oftentimes are accidental bigamists, like they will marry before 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.720 their divorce is complete. But there's also and they called 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.840 it rare. It's not as rare as you think when 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.360 the dude leads a double life and literally has two families. 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.280 And uh, it's rare according to the population. But if 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.440 you look up in Google new search, you'll find plenty 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.040 of it. Or listened to the Grateful Dead song Friend 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.920 of the Devil, that'll give you the right idea that'll 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.360 get you on the troll. That's one of the few 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.640 dead songs. I like it. It's a good one. I 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:24.640 like easy Wind really, And uh, what is polyamory as 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.440 being in love? That's just more than one person? That 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:32.000 is just um. I don't get that communal familial living 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:38.800 where everyone is everyone has sexual access to everybody else. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:44.200 There's not necessarily and usually isn't any marriage involved. Um. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.320 But it resembles like um a polygamist household in that 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.360 there's like a group of people all contributing to the 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.360 raising of children. And probably in most cases there would 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.480 be a differentiation of whose kid is who's But it's 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.560 like a mini taking a village to raise a child. Again, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:09.240 I don't know how good this is necessarily for child rearing. UM, 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.640 we're not gonna make that call, but we can't say. 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.600 There's a study in Malaysia that's emerging as brand new. UM. 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.240 This thing was just published in July, UM and it's 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:24.280 a very it's the groundbreaking study. Actually. UM Malaysia it 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:31.400 allows polygamy among its Muslim um population because it's UM. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.280 It's Muslim law that you can have up to four 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:36.880 wives as long as you can care for all of 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.960 them equally and treat them all equally well. And apparently 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.240 that's that's like what you're supposed to do. It's not 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.960 always the case, but I think like a significant portion 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:50.040 of the children in polygamous households in this Malaysian study, UM, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:55.480 there's something like people involved in the study and uh 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.880 five hundred and twenty three of the children in the households, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.000 So like a signific if we get majority of the 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.880 children said that they wouldn't engage in a polygamoust lifestyle 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.400 even though they're Muslims, right once they marry. Interesting, Yeah, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.480 so I don't know how much that will change as 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.520 they get older though, especially as you know status is 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:20.040 attached to it. Well, the article here said that westernization, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:24.720 like younger Muslims think polygamy is kind of old fashioned. Yeah, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.160 maybe that's something to do with it too, And I'm 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.800 sorry I got that wrong. Five three children were involved 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.040 in the study of them and said that they wouldn't 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.320 engage in polygamy. That's overwhelming. So polygamy as the idea 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:41.360 that a man is very successful and should spread his 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.120 seed while he is on the earth because he is 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.560 rich and successful to breed more young and rich and 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.680 successful people, and that a lot of times has been 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.400 endorsed when you have a minority of a population, like 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.320 early Jewish doctrine were in favor of it. Right, it's 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.400 a really um it's a really quick way to jump 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.920 start your population, to to get your society going. Yeah, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.440 it's I was surprised. It said some Orthodox Jewish sex 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.960 still advocate poly which I was impressed to find the 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.240 confirmation of that. I saw that some gave it up recently, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.840 but I had trouble finding that I did too, except 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:27.040 for here. And I think China did that too, because 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.120 there Vietnam, oh, viet Well, Vietnam and China did it 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.960 too under Confucianism. China did it under Confucianism. Vietnam did 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.320 it for practical reasons. It's not legal in Vietnam, but 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.880 it's widely practiced because the place is so ridiculously war 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:46.680 torn that they actually need to restart their population as well. Um. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.800 So again, it does have a lot of advantages, specifically 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.480 um polygyny. Right, yea, let's talk about why I took 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.000 and again from this moment until we're not talking about 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:08.960 it anymore. We're speaking biologically, impersonally, without any any social aspects. Biologically, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.480 polygamy makes uttering complete sense, especially if you subscribe to 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:18.520 the Dawkins selfish gene idea. Right. What's that, Well, it's 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.560 the it's the concept that we are merely vehicles for 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:27.520 our genes that are driven to basically exists in immortality 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.399 by passing its line down as frequently as possible. Okay, um, 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:38.600 through polygamy, through polygyny, I should say polygyny. Sorry, I 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.480 think you could probably say it both ways. I just 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.840 think we're confusing people through polygyny with the g n 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:50.040 um a man can well, a man can reproduce far 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:56.639 more frequently. Healthy stallion could basically reproduce several times a 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:02.479 day every day if he had sexual access to a 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.919 lot of opulating women. Okay, thank you for that, man Um. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.320 A woman can only reproduce once every nine months after 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.800 becoming pregnant, and she may have twins triplets naturally speaking, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.280 you know, um, octuplets are and uh the results that 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.360 they're a product of of modern science of fertility drugs. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.479 But say you have twins, maybe triplets top usually Irish 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.520 twins at the max. Okay, what is that? No Irish 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.480 twins is when you have like two kids or nine 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.080 months apart. Okay, I'm thinking of a Baker's dozen. So 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.199 chuck um. So poly polygyny makes sense, and that if 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.760 you want to, if you want to build up your population, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.479 a bunch have a bunch of ovulating women and guys 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.080 to reproduce with them. Right, So it makes sense biologically, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:58.159 but socially it's a catastrophe. Right. Well, one thing is 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.359 hard to talk about is actually statistics, because Mormon plural 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.760 marriage is not the kind of thing that's documented to 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.040 keep it very private and secret, so you can't go 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.359 out and get a bunch of statistics on abuse. But 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.800 the the stories that you hear in anecdotal evidence suggests 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.200 that a lot of abuse happens, like girls that are 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:25.440 fourteen years old getting married to men that are years old. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.200 That's that's definitely one dark part of the dark side 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:35.359 of polygamy. Polygony specifically polygyny also um places men in 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:40.200 a position of absolute authority just by even just by 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.160 bestowing that possibility of the men. The man having more 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.520 than one wife, but all those wives are devoted to 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.879 the one man. He's automatically at the top of the 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.760 hierarchy just by virtue of the arrangement, and just sociologically speaking, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.520 being put in that kind of situation would probably make 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.040 you drunk with power just being an average person. A 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.439 lot of men abuse that position, sure, and even if 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.280 they don't want to abuse it. The women in a 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.480 in a polygamous scenario, they don't have their subservient. They're 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.000 so dependent, they don't have like the skills. Even if 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.520 they do escape there their scenario, they don't have the 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.480 skills to make it on their own because they've they've 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.600 just been the subservient wife right the whole time. Right, 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.320 that's no good. A lot of people who have moved 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:28.480 on from polygamist um marriages usually use the word escape 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.280 or often use the word escape they escaped from a 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:35.200 polygamous marriage, not I got divorced or anything like that. UM. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:40.760 And then also just economically speaking, there's a division of 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.240 one guy's paycheck over you know, however many wives and 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.800 children he has. He may have more than one house, 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.920 if he's if he's you know, doing pretty well for himself, 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.960 you know, maybe he's an engineer or something. Um, but 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.200 it's still one person's paycheck supporting all of these people. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.399 And you see that problem with currently. According to the 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.439 article who wrote this one, Grabster Grabster wrote this one, 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.240 he points out that UM Colorado City, Arizona, which is 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.280 one of I think two places where you can be 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:18.440 a polygamist um is basically single handedly puts a strain 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.400 on the um welfare services of the state of Arizona. 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.920 They're going broke. Yeah, UM. So that's that's another aspect 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.080 of it, as well as the economics of it. And 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:35.080 then apparently jealousy too. First wives, rather than being the 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.760 dominant wife out of all of the other ones, are 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.359 often just kind of left to the side, get younger 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.520 and younger and younger. Is that right? Yeah, there's That's 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.159 like a big plot line of the show, I know, 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.160 is that some of the wives become jealous of each 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.360 other and like a love triangle. Would I don't see 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.200 how you couldn't, you know, even even among the most 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.280 devoted polygamist families. I don't see how that couldn't happen, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.879 Like jealousy so ingrained. I'm the most non jealous person 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.600 on the face of the earth, But that would even 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.680 make me jealous, Yeah, I would think, yes, or maybe not, 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.440 I think it would, so chuck um you ready, let's 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.439 talk about the Mormons. All of you guys have been 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:21.000 very good and patient. Thank you for waiting. Let's do Mormons. Man. Yes, 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.600 this is a brief overview of Mormonism. We're not gonna 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.320 maybe we could do a whole podcast one day on them. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.159 But it's a religion founded by Joseph Smith Jr. Early 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.200 eight hundreds, and he claimed to have received messages, divine 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.440 messages from an angel that directed him to golden plates 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.000 that basically told the story that he translated to eventually 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.760 become the Book of Mormon. So the Book of Mormon 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.520 was written, and um, it does not contain specific info 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:54.280 about polygamy, but supposedly he uh practice polygamy after receiving 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:57.760 another personal divine message saying if you go out and 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.920 have multiple wives, then you will be a king in heaven. Yeah. 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.560 Basically to be a successful Mormon, you kind of had 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.320 to practice polygamy. It was a directive from God, although 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.239 again it says nothing about it in the Book of Mormon, right, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.679 nothing about it. There's a cool website, um called the 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:20.159 Wives of Joseph Smith, and it chronicles they have thirty 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:23.440 four by my account, um. But it has each name 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.040 has like their age, whether they had a husband at 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.080 the time they were married to Joseph Smith, um. And 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.040 then there's like a link each one's hyper linked to 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:34.120 a bio on them. It's very cool to make sure 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:37.520 that these people, these women aren't forgotten because they were 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.959 part of the founding establishment of Mormon. Right. Um, So 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.800 he had thirty four. From what I could see, some 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:49.920 of them were sisters and the youngest was fourteen. Right. 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:54.520 One of his kids, Joseph Smith the third, was like 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.920 one of the Malaysian Muslim kids, because when he came 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.120 of eight, he was like, I am not practicing pa. 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.480 I've seen it firsthand and I'm not doing it. Yeah, 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.760 and he's he's he made a separate sect, right. He 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:08.120 branched off because he wanted to stay down with the Mormons. 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.120 He just wasn't down with polygamy exactly. Uh. A guy 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:14.120 who was down with polygamy was the successor to Joseph 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:18.639 Smith Jr. The founder of the Church of Latter day Saints, 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:21.320 a guy named Brigham Young the old notice as a 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.119 university he does. Yeah, Brigham Young had even more children 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:28.520