Speaker 1: Everybody. This is an episode that we originally ran on
Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty three, but April is a National
Speaker 1: Autism acceptance month, and in honor of that, we wanted
Speaker 1: to bring back to you one of our favorite episodes,
Speaker 1: which happens to be about autism with Army member Stacy Horst.
Speaker 2: And it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're
Speaker 2: going to do something or this might kill us and
Speaker 2: we have another child and we can't do that. So
Speaker 2: we sat and talked about all those times when Aaron
Speaker 2: didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the
Speaker 2: invitation to go to the football games, and didn't get
Speaker 2: asked to do things, and realized that if she had
Speaker 2: had somewhere to go where she felt safe and could
Speaker 2: have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy,
Speaker 2: just fun, just fun to be with other kids and
Speaker 2: meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would
Speaker 2: still be with us today.
Speaker 1: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
Speaker 1: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
Speaker 1: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in
Speaker 1: Inner City Memphis and the last part it unintentionally led
Speaker 1: to an oscar for the film about our team, which
Speaker 1: is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never
Speaker 1: be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice
Speaker 1: suits talking big words that nobody really ever uses or
Speaker 1: understands on CNN and five, but rather an army of
Speaker 1: normal folks, US, just you and me deciding, hey, I
Speaker 1: can help. That's what Stacy Horse the voice we just
Speaker 1: heard has done. Stacy's daughter Aaron, was bullied and excluded
Speaker 1: by her peers because she had autism, and tragically, that
Speaker 1: isolation led to her taking her own life at only
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Stacy and her husband Darren chose not
Speaker 1: to be victims, and they started the nonprofit Aaron's Hope
Speaker 1: for Friends to create physical clubs where kids with autism
Speaker 1: can hang out on the weekends and just be buddies,
Speaker 1: you know, enjoy friendships as we're all meant to. I
Speaker 1: can't wait for you to meet Aaron right after these
Speaker 1: brief messages from our generals sponsors. Stacey Horst, how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good?
Speaker 1: How are you good? Welcome to Memphis, Thank you. I
Speaker 1: before we even begin, I've got to uh I got
Speaker 1: to give you props. You're one of what I hope
Speaker 1: is the first of many. But you're a groundbreaker for
Speaker 1: an army of normal folks. Did you know that?
Speaker 2: No? I did not.
Speaker 1: You are. And here's what it is. So far, every
Speaker 1: guest we've had, Alex, our producer, and Ironlight Labs and
Speaker 1: the people that make this show happen have worked really
Speaker 1: hard to find compelling stories of normal folks doing extraordinary
Speaker 1: things all over the country, and they found them through
Speaker 1: pouring through media and articles. And I guess it's good
Speaker 1: we're talking about this because one of the questions I
Speaker 1: get often is how do you find all these people?
Speaker 1: And that's how they've done it. But you are the
Speaker 1: first of the organic what I'm gonna called the organic
Speaker 1: guest in that we didn't find you that way, you
Speaker 1: found us. I remember opening an email from you not
Speaker 1: that long ago. What was it a month ago? How
Speaker 1: long ago?
Speaker 2: Probably two two and a half months.
Speaker 1: Again, I think so. Yeah, early on in our release
Speaker 1: and Stacy Horst is our first organically grown army of
Speaker 1: normal folks guests. I wish I had a belder. Yeah
Speaker 1: you are. You are a woo hoo. This is a
Speaker 1: woohoo moment for us. And really you exemplify a microcosm
Speaker 1: of what the whole idea is. We're trying to grow
Speaker 1: a community that celebrates and listens and learns and and
Speaker 1: and grows off one another, and so you are the
Speaker 1: first of that community, and so you will always hold
Speaker 1: a special place in the history of an army of
Speaker 1: normal folks, being the first organic guest we have. So,
Speaker 1: in a very real sense, welcome and thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, thank you for what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you for what you're doing. And I
Speaker 1: got to tell you when I read Juriemel and we're
Speaker 1: not going to get to it yet. Ah wow, my
Speaker 1: heart skipped to beat. And I find the work that
Speaker 1: you're doing to be remarkable. Frankly, the the depth of
Speaker 1: the of the person you and your husband are is
Speaker 1: immeasurable in my opinion, and and we're going to share
Speaker 1: all of that. So tell me about Rachel. Oh not now,
Speaker 1: Rachel coming up.
Speaker 2: Rachel coming up. Oh wow, she's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: She loved fun.
Speaker 2: No, she's just she was a very fun kid, very sassy,
Speaker 2: but very sweet. She was a good older sister. She
Speaker 2: you know, just she she loved the arts. She loved
Speaker 2: to she did. Both of our girls did everything. They
Speaker 2: played sports, they did arts, you know, involved in church
Speaker 2: and Rachel ended up both of the girls ended up
Speaker 2: going finishing school in Atlanta because that's where we ended
Speaker 2: up last. And she ended up going to Savannah College
Speaker 2: of Art and Design. And she's a photographer.
Speaker 1: That's very cool. Yeah, she and she's married.
Speaker 2: Now, she is, she's married. Her husband also went to
Speaker 2: SCAD and that's where they met.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's the Archie family. Do they have kids.
Speaker 2: They have one little boy who just turned.
Speaker 1: To he's probably a meathead football player. And I'll never
Speaker 1: do the arts. That'll probably what will happen.
Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll see, We'll.
Speaker 1: See pretty art. We'll see, all right, And so tell
Speaker 1: us about erin Oh.
Speaker 2: Aaron loved animals. Ain was a very sweet little girl,
Speaker 2: as we'll talk about. She was diagnosed with autism when
Speaker 2: she was three, and really her passion was animals. She
Speaker 2: also played sports. She played every sport known to man,
Speaker 2: and she loved to give away her stuff. Nothing that
Speaker 2: she had was hers. Everything she had could be somebody else's.
Speaker 2: If she saw that somebody needed something, she would come
Speaker 2: home and get it and go give it to him
Speaker 2: without telling us. By the way, she played the drums,
Speaker 2: she was an awesome drummer. She was in a band
Speaker 2: and one of the kids at school, who was also
Speaker 2: in the band and played the drums, needed a kick pedal,
Speaker 2: and she had two. No, if you have kids that
Speaker 2: played musical instruments, but this stuff is not cheap.
Speaker 1: It's expensive.
Speaker 2: Yes, And she came home and took the kick pedal
Speaker 2: kick pedal back to school the next day and gave
Speaker 2: it away and we found out weeks later.
Speaker 1: So she's a sweet kid, oh yeah. And loved animals, yes,
Speaker 1: and had a big heart. I gotta ask you how
Speaker 1: you know people listening to us are going to hear
Speaker 1: this whole story end up. But I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: get to get to what you're doing and why I
Speaker 1: really want to put a face on both Aaron and
Speaker 1: your family. Three. Now, when you say she was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with you said level one autism. Is that how you
Speaker 1: say it? I think that was formally referred to as Asperger's.
Speaker 1: Am I right about the Yes? Why don't we call
Speaker 1: it Aspergers anymore?
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I'd like to know that myself.
Speaker 2: They chose to change the DSM five which is where
Speaker 2: you go for diagnoses, and they put they lumped everything
Speaker 2: under ASD, which is Autism spectrum disorder. Why they did that,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Because these teens, young adults, children who
Speaker 2: are in level one or aspergers are and can be
Speaker 2: much different than what level three would be, which could
Speaker 2: be nonverbal tantrums.
Speaker 1: How many levels are there?
Speaker 2: Three?
Speaker 1: There are three, so I'm assuming then one is the
Speaker 1: slightest level, then two, then three is the deepest level.
Speaker 1: I'm asking. I don't know, I really is that right?
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: So many people are blind to autism that they don't
Speaker 1: really understand. I mean, you know, is a level one
Speaker 1: person functioning in a way that maybe you wouldn't know
Speaker 1: unless you just got up close and talked to them.
Speaker 1: Because I hear you say, she'll have animals, she played
Speaker 1: sports where she you know, mainlined in school. You see
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, explain that existence.
Speaker 2: I think that it's yes. I think that you can
Speaker 2: look at people in level one and unless you go
Speaker 2: up to them and have a conversation with them, because
Speaker 2: basically one of their biggest deficits is their social interactions
Speaker 2: like you and I are sitting here looking at each
Speaker 2: other in the eye having a conversation, where they find
Speaker 2: that extremely difficult to look you in the eye and
Speaker 2: to have a conversation on point. For example, if Aaron
Speaker 2: was in a group and they're talking about going to
Speaker 2: a football game, and they were having a conversation and
Speaker 2: she wanted to add something to the conversation, she would
Speaker 2: be standing there thinking about what she wanted to say
Speaker 2: for probably sixty ninety seconds before it would come out
Speaker 2: of her mouth. Well, for us, sixty or ninety seconds
Speaker 2: is a long time, and we've already we've already moved on,
Speaker 2: Like we're not talking about the football game anymore. We're
Speaker 2: talking about where we're going to have dinner or what
Speaker 2: we're going to eat. So when they choose to say something,
Speaker 2: then they're behind And sadly, that's where a lot of
Speaker 2: them get ridiculed or bullied because they're trying to fit
Speaker 2: in and yet they're behind the eight ball in terms
Speaker 2: of the conversation. And it's really a social thing, but
Speaker 2: they're you know, their brilliance is amazing.
Speaker 1: Could Aaron verbalize the world she saw differently than everybody
Speaker 1: else to you, and would she do that with you?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? What would she say? What would the what did
Speaker 1: the how did the world look different to Aerin as
Speaker 1: a child with autism level one than it would do
Speaker 1: you and me? Can you give me an example to
Speaker 1: help me? And the listeners kind of go oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that they would see it that differently.
Speaker 1: I mean, how would she verbalize that she would see
Speaker 1: things that were different than the way you would see them.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing is the level of compassion,
Speaker 2: the level of emotion. So how how she felt and
Speaker 2: saw in certain situations, whether it's at school, whether it's
Speaker 2: at home, in the neighborhood with friends. It's like a
Speaker 2: richer emotion, if you will, of caring for other people,
Speaker 2: where I would say, I don't want to say, like
Speaker 2: we're more crass and we just go about our day
Speaker 2: and do what we want to do. But she, you know,
Speaker 2: we do sense other people. But she would sense other
Speaker 2: people's emotions, and especially in the essence of someone was sad,
Speaker 2: if someone was hurt.
Speaker 1: And now a few messages from our general sponsors, But
Speaker 1: first I hope you'll consider following an army of normal
Speaker 1: folks on all of our social media channels for more
Speaker 1: powerful content, which is also great for sharing to help
Speaker 1: grow the army. Our handle is at Army of Normal
Speaker 1: Folks on all of them except Twitter, which I gets
Speaker 1: this is X these days, which is interesting because everybody
Speaker 1: says X formally called Twitter, so we might as well
Speaker 1: just call it Twitter whatever. At Army normal folks. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back, I said earlier when I got your
Speaker 1: email that you know, it resonated with me deeply. So
Speaker 1: my wife is she might kill me. She's fifty one,
Speaker 1: and she has a sister that's in her forties and
Speaker 1: that's the youngest, actually late thirties through youngest. She has
Speaker 1: a brother that's in her forties. But when I met Lisa,
Speaker 1: her little brother was eight and his name's Ben, and
Speaker 1: he's special needs, and his special needs is a result
Speaker 1: of him having encephalitis when he was an infant. Ben
Speaker 1: is highly functional but has the mental capacity of you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a first grader in that range. And one of
Speaker 1: the beauties of Ben is that he can go to
Speaker 1: Florida on trips, right, He can ride a he can
Speaker 1: ride an airplane, and he can go with us to
Speaker 1: family vacations and go out to eat and eat well,
Speaker 1: and he can feed himself and dress himself and bathe
Speaker 1: himself in all of those things. But I have watched
Speaker 1: my in laws spend the last thirty two years of
Speaker 1: their life caring for Ben in a way that is heroic.
Speaker 1: They gave him every opportunity that they could give him
Speaker 1: within his capabilities, to have as normal life as possible,
Speaker 1: while also protecting him from the things that he can
Speaker 1: protect himself from. He's been beaten by staff, care staff before,
Speaker 1: he's uh, He's endured trauma, and he has at times
Speaker 1: expressed his deep sadness and grief that he wasn't normal. Heartbreaking,
Speaker 1: but in the same respect, a real blessing to our family.
Speaker 1: When I read your email, I felt you deeply. And
Speaker 1: the reason I want to know what you felt like
Speaker 1: when you found out that at three that Aaron had
Speaker 1: I don't know to call it Asperger's, but I think
Speaker 1: that's woke, incorrect, level one whatever was a child with
Speaker 1: level one autism. I think that's why I was supposed
Speaker 1: to say it properly. I mean no disrespect. I think
Speaker 1: I know a little bit about what kind of shock
Speaker 1: that was to your family dynamic, and it is to
Speaker 1: be perfectly candid, gut wrenching, but it's also what God's
Speaker 1: put in your life, and it's a blessing you've been
Speaker 1: giving and you go to work.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So what that work look.
Speaker 1: Like from three to call it eight or nine years
Speaker 1: old for you and Darren? And and why I asked
Speaker 1: so much about was Rachel because I also understand the
Speaker 1: dynamic of my wife when she was a teenager trying
Speaker 1: to figure out her stuff, having a special needs brother,
Speaker 1: and that's tough. H So tell me about that dynamic
Speaker 1: you did?
Speaker 2: Well, Like what you said, you go to work. I
Speaker 2: mean you find out whatever interventions you can do, whatever
Speaker 2: treatment you can do, training, anything to try and give them.
Speaker 2: I mean she went to speech therapy, occupational therapy. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think we did every kind of therapy known to man.
Speaker 1: You're driving her all over the place, huh, everything you can. Yes,
Speaker 1: And there was if it's anything like my experience, that
Speaker 1: there was no thing that might make her life a
Speaker 1: little bit better that you wouldn't drop and go do.
Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely, and y'all did that. Oh yeah, how did
Speaker 2: it affect Rachel? That's a good question. Now I think
Speaker 2: that it's I mean I saw it as you're talking
Speaker 2: about your wife, Lisa. Uh yeah, yeah, I mean you're
Speaker 2: you're a teen who's trying to figure out your own
Speaker 2: way in life, and you have a special needs sibling,
Speaker 2: and I know that a lot of time and energy
Speaker 2: is spent trying to I want to see, make that right,
Speaker 2: but to help Aaron. And so therefore, you know, there
Speaker 2: is time that I think that's taken away from the
Speaker 2: other child. And then it's hard when Rachel's trying to
Speaker 2: figure out her own thing and she has a sister
Speaker 2: that wants to come with everywhere, everywhere, and you know,
Speaker 2: Rachel would have people over to the house and they'd
Speaker 2: be down in the basement, and you know, of course
Speaker 2: Aaron wants to be a part of it. One of
Speaker 2: the beauties of aspers And I call it that because
Speaker 2: that's what she was diagnosed with.
Speaker 1: Good if you call it that, I can, yes, you can.
Speaker 2: You know she would now lest we turn it back,
Speaker 2: because we talked about that. But you know, Rachel, Aaron
Speaker 2: wanted to be everywhere, and oh, I know the blessing
Speaker 2: was that Aaron got along really well with people older
Speaker 2: than her and young kids. It's the it's the peer
Speaker 2: to appear relationship. That is the struggle. So all of
Speaker 2: Rachel's friends.
Speaker 1: She loved her, oh yeah, well, and she.
Speaker 2: Loved him because she could go over and she could
Speaker 2: talk to them. And I'm sure for her it was
Speaker 2: like being normal, what she thought normal was like. But
Speaker 2: that also got in Rachel's.
Speaker 1: Way so well. And the reason I ask is, you
Speaker 1: know again, I think it's really important for people listening
Speaker 1: to us to understand that when and Aaron or Been
Speaker 1: come along in your life, it's a family occurrence.
Speaker 2: It is a.
Speaker 1: Life altering and many times for the better. I don't
Speaker 1: want to make it sound like it's all negative, because
Speaker 1: but there is. But you know, frankly, people cringe when
Speaker 1: you say there's negatives, But there is negatives. It's just
Speaker 1: the reality of it. There's difficulties, it's tough. It does
Speaker 1: change family dynamic. It doesn't mean it's all bad and
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you resent. But the reality is there's
Speaker 1: some tough there's some tough things that come along with
Speaker 1: all of it. And it's important for people to understand
Speaker 1: that parents and families with kids like Ben or like
Speaker 1: Aaron with Aspergers are going through their own difficulties to
Speaker 1: try to make the best life they can for their child,
Speaker 1: and a little understanding and support not only for the
Speaker 1: person with Aspergers, but the family's caring form is really important. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: did you have that?
Speaker 2: I think in the beginning, you feel like you're on
Speaker 2: an island exactly why asked? Yeah, you know, you feel
Speaker 2: like you're on an island and you're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how to get off and what's going to be
Speaker 2: the best way to get off, And through time and
Speaker 2: being involved in different things, I think that you acquire
Speaker 2: that group or that support, but in the beginning, you
Speaker 2: definitely feel like you're out there all by yourself.
Speaker 1: Which we will come back to in terms of the
Speaker 1: importance of the work that you're now doing, because I
Speaker 1: think the work that you're now doing is not only
Speaker 1: really vital for people with Aspergers, but also for the
Speaker 1: family surrounding them. So as a parent with a kid
Speaker 1: struggling with this, and you're struggling, and I know, you've
Speaker 1: got to be proud. I mean, she's sweet, she's cooking,
Speaker 1: she's caring for kids, she's playing sports, doing all these things.
Speaker 1: But then she's also a kid with autism. And I'm
Speaker 1: not making excuses, but I remember Ben, And you can't
Speaker 1: really expect twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year old kids to
Speaker 1: really deeply understand someone who's not like them. And I'm
Speaker 1: not excusing bullying or being off putting, but I've seen it,
Speaker 1: you know. And did Aaron feel different.
Speaker 2: In what way?
Speaker 1: Well? Did she get invited to birthday parties?
Speaker 2: Ah? No, oh, absolutely they feel different? Yeah, no, they don't.
Speaker 1: And did she verbalize how that hurt her?
Speaker 2: In the essence of saying, you really found out about
Speaker 2: it more after the fact, because you wouldn't really know
Speaker 2: as a parent if my child's not invited, I don't
Speaker 2: know that that's happening, right until she finds out that
Speaker 2: so and so had a birthday party and she wasn't invited. Well,
Speaker 2: then you find out, Well, did she ever.
Speaker 1: Come to you and say, Mom, why am I not
Speaker 1: getting invited to the birthday parties? Did she ever verbalize
Speaker 1: that kind of thing? I?
Speaker 2: You know, I think that she did. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: remember one specific occasion, but I can tell you with
Speaker 2: the beginning of social media, I mean, that's made it.
Speaker 1: Because she's seeing all our friends on Facebook at parties
Speaker 1: and stuff, or not her friends, but her classmates yes,
Speaker 1: or peers right and she's not there correct, then I
Speaker 1: hurt her.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you knew it, We knew it, and she
Speaker 2: would say stuff. But I can't. I can't remember like
Speaker 2: one specific situation where she came to us.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: But yes, I mean, the social media is, although it
Speaker 2: can be beautiful, it's awful.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the I mean, you had to have
Speaker 1: just your heart had to broke for her.
Speaker 2: It breaks now just thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to take you back through it. I just looked, well,
Speaker 1: I really want people to understand why you're doing what
Speaker 1: you're doing. And until people really get the depth of
Speaker 1: this and I understand the depth of it, I've I've
Speaker 1: watched it. I've I've watched people do the you know,
Speaker 1: the making fun of bad jerking hands or whatever. I
Speaker 1: can't even verbilize what I'm saying, but you know, people
Speaker 1: will do certain things that simulate or articulate non verbally
Speaker 1: special needs people, and I've watched them do that behind
Speaker 1: Ben's back before, and frankly, I've wanted to beat there.
Speaker 2: I'm right there with you, so I said earlier, nobody
Speaker 2: better give me a gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it will not end well, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's wrong on so many levels. But what it is
Speaker 1: is it's it's a lack of maturity and understanding again
Speaker 1: of what an entire family goes through. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: I think that it's and I say this because for
Speaker 2: anybody who hears this podcast, if you're having struggles with
Speaker 2: a child, regardless of whether they have autism or not,
Speaker 2: if they're being bullied, you have to have to have
Speaker 2: to just make sure that you are alert. Aaron was
Speaker 2: bullied at church, she was bullied at school, she was
Speaker 2: bullied in sports.
Speaker 1: And did you see it? Did you see it happen?
Speaker 2: Again? You find out after the fact, But how can
Speaker 2: you go, you know? And at church she went on
Speaker 2: she went on a camp retreat and she was in
Speaker 2: a cabin with three other girls. And the three other
Speaker 2: girls went to the counselor sor it's okay, asked if
Speaker 2: they could leave the cabin, and they let the other
Speaker 2: three girls leave the cabin and left our daughter there
Speaker 2: by herself on a camp at church. So it can
Speaker 2: happen anywhere. It could happen online, which it did. It
Speaker 2: happened through email and all these things and to your
Speaker 2: point when you asked me if she told us before
Speaker 2: when that email came to her, she walked downstairs with
Speaker 2: her computer and showed us what it said. Yes, I said,
Speaker 2: basically that she was horrible and she should kill herself.
Speaker 1: Then it came from a classmate.
Speaker 2: Three classmates at school, and she went to a school
Speaker 2: for children with disabilities. Oh my gosh, so nowhere is safe,
Speaker 2: I guess you could say. And I hate to say that,
Speaker 2: you know, it breaks my heart, but it's true. So anyway,
Speaker 2: these things were happening, and she had talked prior about
Speaker 2: not wanting to live, and we had been going to
Speaker 2: a counselor and a psychiatrist and you know, put her
Speaker 2: on antidepressants because she, you know, was obviously not happy
Speaker 2: and didn't want to be here anymore. And that's when
Speaker 2: we went through the big snowstorm in Atlanta that shut
Speaker 2: the world down, and we were actually looking at different
Speaker 2: schools to move her to a different school. And she
Speaker 2: had gone and tried a new school the day before,
Speaker 2: and I think that she was scared to death that
Speaker 2: she was going to have to go back to the
Speaker 2: other school that she was currently at. And she made
Speaker 2: a huge thing of Lasagna. We were having the neighbors
Speaker 2: over because everybody was stuck in their houses because it
Speaker 2: had snowed, And I went to pick up one of
Speaker 2: our elderly neighbors in my car across the street because
Speaker 2: you couldn't walk it was so icy, And unfortunately Aaron
Speaker 2: went upstairs and took her own life in her room.
Speaker 1: I'm so so sorry. I cannot imagine that pain. And
Speaker 1: I guess you'd come home to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my husband was at home. He found her, and
Speaker 2: then I came in and we tried to called nine
Speaker 2: to one one and tried to resuscitate her.
Speaker 1: Nobody deserves that, I h do you need to take
Speaker 1: a break? You good? I'm fine, strong woman. So that's
Speaker 1: what happens when people get bullied, and that's what happens
Speaker 1: when kids with special needs have to live in a
Speaker 1: world where people are too uninformed and too selfish to
Speaker 1: care beyond themselves. And like I said before we heard
Speaker 1: the outcome of Aaron's life is that this is a
Speaker 1: thing that an entire family deals with in life and
Speaker 1: in death. And I think we can all agree it's
Speaker 1: one of the worst things in the world, is the
Speaker 1: thought of a parent outliving a child and the trauma
Speaker 1: that that causes a family. You, however, have managed to
Speaker 1: figure out a way to turn that on its head,
Speaker 1: which is what we're going to get to and celebrate.
Speaker 1: But one last thing before we get there, what happens next?
Speaker 1: Before you go to work? You're dealing with grief. You've
Speaker 1: got your kid's belongings, you've got another daughter, You've got
Speaker 1: a husband and a wife who are both traumatized in
Speaker 1: both feeling all of their own and stop, probably oddly,
Speaker 1: including maybe even some guilt and what ifs and all
Speaker 1: of that crap you got to go through. How long
Speaker 1: did that last?
Speaker 2: What's today?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Seriously, it hasn't stopped that. You know, it's I don't
Speaker 2: I have met I haven't met another parent who's lost
Speaker 2: a child. That still, to the day that I meet them,
Speaker 2: you still are going through all that. You still go
Speaker 2: through the what ifs, You still go through the guilt,
Speaker 2: You still wonder what could I have done? What you know,
Speaker 2: what could I have done differently? So I don't think
Speaker 2: it's there. There is no end to that. There won't
Speaker 2: be an end to that until I see Aaron in heaven.
Speaker 1: Say you carry with the rest of your.
Speaker 2: Life, I think so.
Speaker 1: So when I was in ninth grade on Daddy number four,
Speaker 1: I got into a fight that I started. I didn't
Speaker 1: really start it. He was kind of a jerk, but
Speaker 1: I started. I started the fight part. And it was
Speaker 1: an unwise decision by me because he doted by pretty good.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I had to go to the coach's office
Speaker 1: because back then, if you were a football player and
Speaker 1: you got into a fight, that incidior print of all
Speaker 1: you went to coach office. Coach Spain, who's past now,
Speaker 1: was my coach and he took a pretty special interest
Speaker 1: in me. He was a guy from a little town
Speaker 1: called Myland, Tennessee, where they go cotton, no nonsense, old school,
Speaker 1: raw boned guy and was that way as a coach.
Speaker 1: But was one of these guys who had the ability
Speaker 1: to really be in tune with not just a football player,
Speaker 1: but the person you know, and he took He was
Speaker 1: really a mentor somebody. I just I think every high
Speaker 1: school kid kind of worships their football coach, at least
Speaker 1: they did back in my day, but it was on
Speaker 1: another level with him. And so I was in his
Speaker 1: office at the door closed, and he asked me why
Speaker 1: I did what I did. And I just told him
Speaker 1: I was angry, and he said, well, you got a
Speaker 1: lot to be angry about. He said, you know, I
Speaker 1: understand you're going through a lot of stuff. And he
Speaker 1: said and he said, but you know you're you're a
Speaker 1: strapping young guy. And he said, you really have a
Speaker 1: decision to make. Billy, back then, I was Billy. He said,
Speaker 1: you really have a decision to make. Billy said, you
Speaker 1: can decide to be a victim of all of the
Speaker 1: chaos and trauma and dysfunction that's in your life and
Speaker 1: be just like them.
Speaker 2: Or.
Speaker 1: You can denounce it, recognize it's a wonderful illustration about
Speaker 1: how not to live your life, and you can be
Speaker 1: a rock that other people break themselves on.
Speaker 2: I love that, he said.
Speaker 1: You can decide, he said, And I can tell you
Speaker 1: this right now. You at your age, can't control any
Speaker 1: of the dysfunction you're dealing with in your life, but
Speaker 1: you can absolutely control what you decide to do about
Speaker 1: it with it. And I'm not going to say it
Speaker 1: was that very instant that I had an epiphany, but
Speaker 1: it was the beginning of me deciding that I was
Speaker 1: going to denounce victimhood of my circumstances and be a
Speaker 1: rock other people can to break themselves on, and that
Speaker 1: I was going to rise above it and quit feeling
Speaker 1: sorry for myself and recognize that everybody has trauma, everybody
Speaker 1: has problems. The level of the difficulty in some people's
Speaker 1: lives are certainly more than others, but everybody experiences stuff.
Speaker 1: And I could either fall, pray to it and be
Speaker 1: a victim of it and feel sorry for myself ended
Speaker 1: up just like them, or I could be a rock
Speaker 1: other people are going to break themselves on. And I
Speaker 1: think there's certain times in our life that we all
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to demonstrate our willingness to be a
Speaker 1: victim or a rock. Absolutely, when is it you decided
Speaker 1: to be a rock?
Speaker 2: Four days after she passed away?
Speaker 1: Tell me about that day.
Speaker 2: As you were talking about before we you know, you
Speaker 2: were obviously living in the house and all of Aaron's
Speaker 2: belongings are there, and she passed away in her bedroom,
Speaker 2: so we were going through her stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm sorry to interrupt you that. How do
Speaker 1: you do that?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's a days after your child's gone and you're going
Speaker 1: through her stuff. In her room.
Speaker 2: We just went in and sat on the floor and
Speaker 2: it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going
Speaker 2: to do something or this might kill us and we
Speaker 2: have another child and we can't do that. So we
Speaker 2: sat and talked about all those times when Aaron didn't
Speaker 2: get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation
Speaker 2: to go to the football games, and didn't get asked
Speaker 2: to do things, and realized that if she had had
Speaker 2: somewhere to go where she felt safe and could have
Speaker 2: fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy,
Speaker 2: just fun, just fun to be with other kids and
Speaker 2: meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would
Speaker 2: still be with us today.
Speaker 1: So, with Aaron still heavy on their hearts and minds,
Speaker 1: Stacy and her husband Darren created that place and she
Speaker 1: tells that incredible story in part two, which is now available,
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you, guys, you do not want to
Speaker 1: miss it. But if for some strange reason you do,
Speaker 1: make sure to join the Army of Normal Folks at
Speaker 1: Normalfolks dot us and sign up to become a member
Speaker 1: of the movement. By signing up, you'll also receive a
Speaker 1: weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen
Speaker 1: to miss an episode or you prefer reading about our
Speaker 1: incredible guests. Together, guys, we can change this country, and
Speaker 1: it starts with you. I'll see you in Part two.