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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abusive power you'd like to share,

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Speaker 1: leave us a message on our hotline number at five

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Speaker 1: one three nine hundred two nine five.

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Speaker 2: Five, or shoot us an email at trust Me pod

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 5: I've never lied to you and.

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Speaker 1: Never have a live If you think that one person

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Speaker 1: has all the answers, don't welcome to Trust Me the

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Speaker 1: podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abusive power from

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Speaker 1: two firecrackers who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I am your resident firecracker, lo La Blanc.

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Speaker 2: And I am also a resident firecracker, Megan Elizabeth, You.

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Speaker 1: Are a resident firecracker. This week is part two of

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Speaker 1: our interview with Sinasta Kaluchi, former member of Twelve Tribes,

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Speaker 1: whom you may know for their restaurant chain, The Yellow Deli,

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Speaker 1: and author of Better Than a Turkish Prison. What I

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Speaker 1: learned from life in a religious cult. So in today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're going to discuss the group's racist doctrines, which were

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Speaker 1: kept from him a half black man, until he was

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Speaker 1: deep into the group and a very major secret that

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Speaker 1: the leaders covered up and kept from their followers, which

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Speaker 1: would have been pretty relevant for them to know.

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Speaker 2: We'll also dive into all the twists and turns in

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Speaker 2: his journey to find love and how he was prevented

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Speaker 2: from being with the girl he liked and loved for years,

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Speaker 2: plus some mysterious pattern of fires surrounding the group's different

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Speaker 2: properties right as.

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Speaker 1: We've mentioned before, including the Colorado fires that were happening

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Speaker 1: relatively recently. And we'll talk about his life now. Cool, Megan, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: speaking of how people's lives are. Now, Huh, what's your

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Speaker 1: cultiest thing this week in your life?

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Speaker 2: You're really gonna like this one, Lala, Like, I think

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be one of your favorite ones that

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Speaker 2: I've brought thus far. Basically, they've done a new study

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Speaker 2: and they have found the five traits that psychopaths share.

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Speaker 6: Would you like to know what they are?

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Speaker 3: I would?

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Speaker 2: Okay, we have callousness mm hmm, manipulativeness mm hmm, dishonesty

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Speaker 2: hm arrogance, and cruelty.

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Speaker 6: So before this study, what we used to.

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Speaker 2: Have were eight traits that were common in psychopaths, like

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Speaker 2: low vulnerability, low self consciousness, low anxiousness, fearlessness. But those

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Speaker 2: can also be traits that people who aren't psychopaths have,

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Speaker 2: So this is kind of a new narrow to focus

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Speaker 2: on what they actually are, something to be on the

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Speaker 2: lookout for.

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Speaker 1: I am always on the lookout for it. This sounds

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Speaker 1: like a handful of people that I know just right

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Speaker 1: off the top of my head.

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Speaker 6: Okay, okay, and quite a few.

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Speaker 1: Politicians, gotta say, yeah, super interesting. Callousness, manipulativeness, dishonesty, ergans

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Speaker 1: and cruelty. I'm looking on the Daily Mail article, which

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming is what you're also looking at.

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Speaker 6: Isn't, but it makes no difference, I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: So it's saying that Bundy made off and Barrow ted Bundy,

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Speaker 1: Clyde Barrow and Bernie made Off all have these characteristics,

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Speaker 1: which is what an interesting selection of people.

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Speaker 6: So strange.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, so.

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Speaker 1: Interested in this category of human And if I had

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Speaker 1: my degree, which one day I will, but not until

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Speaker 1: I make some movies, this would definitely be an area

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Speaker 1: I'd be interested in studying, because like, what's going on

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Speaker 1: in their brain?

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Speaker 3: How did their brains get like that? Why is it happening?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 1: I feel like they are one of the primary obstacles

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Speaker 1: to having a justice system that is like actually, just

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Speaker 1: because it's like, oh yeah, but what about the crazy

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Speaker 1: people who do not have a conscience and will fuck

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Speaker 1: you up no matter how well society treats them anyway,

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Speaker 1: That's a good one.

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Speaker 6: Vegan's as thank you, how about you?

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Speaker 1: I have been binging a little Netflix mini series called

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Speaker 1: Worst Roommate Ever.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I tried.

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Speaker 2: To start that the other night. My boyfriend's really not

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Speaker 2: into like true crime. M it's really boring, I am, and.

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Speaker 6: Uh so, who isn't He'll be like, this is negative.

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Speaker 3: It is negative and it's so fun.

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Speaker 6: But no.

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Speaker 1: I definitely went through a period last year where I

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Speaker 1: was like, you don't take a break from true crime.

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like going getting a little

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Speaker 1: too dark for me. But in this case, really interesting series.

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Speaker 1: Every episode is a different story about a person that

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Speaker 1: either moved in with someone or let them, you know,

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Speaker 1: had them move into their house and turned out to

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Speaker 1: be fucking crazy and terrifying and violent.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the first.

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Speaker 1: One is I guess I won't spoil anything, but like,

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Speaker 1: there are murderer ones, and then there are just well,

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Speaker 1: I guess attempted murderer ones. It's fascinating because there are

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Speaker 1: multiple like episodes about con men, about these like pathological

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Speaker 1: conment who are just like who just like cannot exist

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Speaker 1: in the world without scamming someone, defrauding someone, like lying

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Speaker 1: to someone, taking somebody's.

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Speaker 3: Money, like they just can't.

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Speaker 1: There's so many docks right now. I feel like about

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Speaker 1: this kind of person. Yeah, you're right, repeated con men.

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Speaker 1: What is it about this time in the world right

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Speaker 1: now where we're fascinated by this particular I mean I

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Speaker 1: always have been, but it's like that there's a real

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Speaker 1: wave going on right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's probably boring out of the fact

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Speaker 2: that we all are feeling so desperate.

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Speaker 6: We're like, I wish I could commit a con.

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Speaker 3: That would be my theory, But.

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Speaker 6: That's my unconscious reason.

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Speaker 2: I think humanity is so interested in people who are

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Speaker 2: just like sociopathically doing.

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Speaker 6: The bad shit.

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Speaker 1: Disagree, but I shocking.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess I get like we are in a very

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Speaker 1: tumultuous time. We just finished dependent I mean, knock on wood,

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Speaker 1: we just got through another really bad wave of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like we're on the other side and

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Speaker 1: now there's a fucking war happening, and it just feels

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Speaker 1: like it's been NonStop tumult for so long. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: true crime. I feel like counterintuitively can be such a

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Speaker 1: form of escape, for sure, because it just looks nothing

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Speaker 1: like your life. But it still seems like the wrong

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Speaker 1: kind of escapism, Like shouldn't we all be watching Meg

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Speaker 1: Ryan and Tom Hanks movies and instead we're like, I

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Speaker 1: would like to learn about this man who has ruined

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Speaker 1: seventy lives?

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Speaker 6: Please?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think too, Like it just helps to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's not that bad, I guess. I mean that has

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Speaker 2: to you have to admit that that is like my

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Speaker 2: life isn't that bad?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Conman, I would imagine all of those people that

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Speaker 1: are featured in those documentaries are psychopaths, which brings me

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Speaker 1: back to I want to study their fucking brains and

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Speaker 1: figure it out.

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Speaker 2: Give me your brain, bitch, brains.

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Speaker 1: I was drag Ula but also a zombie. Zombies want

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Speaker 1: your brains.

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Speaker 5: Brain.

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Speaker 6: But then, why do you think that we're so fascinated

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Speaker 6: by it?

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Speaker 1: I think that the extremes of human behavior will always

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Speaker 1: fascinate us because we don't want it to happen to us.

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Speaker 3: It's like going to a new land.

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Speaker 1: It's just like so foreign to you that this is

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Speaker 1: something that could happen, something that people could do.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, it's yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like gawking at a traffic accident on the

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Speaker 1: side of the road.

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Speaker 3: It's like, whoa, that's gnarly.

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Speaker 6: We definitely exactly the same.

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Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah, yeah, it's like, this is shocking. This

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Speaker 1: is like stimulating my brain and in a very particular

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Speaker 1: way that's morbid but entertaining well.

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Speaker 6: And horror is that too?

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Speaker 2: I like, yeah, you still literally tell clients go watch

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Speaker 2: something like Hereditary. You did, Yeah, why because they would

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Speaker 2: feel so much better. Go if you are depressed, go

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Speaker 2: watch her aditary.

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Speaker 1: I would say that that is not across the if

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Speaker 1: you're highly sensitive to.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I wouldn't tell this to somebody who's highly sensitive,

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Speaker 2: Like this is there horror loving movie people who I'm like, go.

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Speaker 6: Watch her auditaries, scare the shit out of yourself, and like.

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Speaker 3: If you like horror, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: Can't help, but your brain not be focused on your

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Speaker 2: when you're watching something that scary.

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Speaker 1: You can't oh to get out of your own head

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Speaker 1: you made yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

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Speaker 6: It's one of the only ways to get out of

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Speaker 6: your self.

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Speaker 1: But wow, I know so many people who like they

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Speaker 1: can't watch horror movies alone, or they can't watch them

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Speaker 1: at night because they cannot sleep. And meanwhile, I'm in

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Speaker 1: the other camp, as we all know, Sam, I love

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Speaker 1: them anyway. Dark shit is interesting in conclusion, and psychopaths

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Speaker 1: are fascinating, and what do we do about them?

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Speaker 3: We don't know, but for now we're not sure. Dive

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Speaker 3: into sinasta now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, before we get into the questioning, and this probably

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Speaker 1: ties into it. I want to hear about the teaching,

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Speaker 1: and I'm probably gonna mispronounce it the teaching of him, Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell us about that.

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Speaker 5: So it is based on the story of the Great

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Speaker 5: Flood in the Bible, story of Noah's arc and Noah

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Speaker 5: had three sons with him, ham Shim and Yafith. I

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Speaker 5: know most Christians pronounce those names differently, but that's the

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Speaker 5: Hebrew names that the twelve tribes use. They repopulated the

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Speaker 5: world along with their wives. And I believe this is

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Speaker 5: not a teaching that is unique to the Twelve Tribes.

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Speaker 5: I believe it was in Christian like mainstream Christianity one

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Speaker 5: hundred years ago or prior to that. But they believe

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Speaker 5: that the three races came from the three sons of

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Speaker 5: Noah because they spread out, they went their separate ways,

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Speaker 5: and over time began to look differently. So the sons

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Speaker 5: of Ham are the ones that, according to the Bible,

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Speaker 5: are cursed. The Twelve Tribes believes that it's black people

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Speaker 5: that are the sons of Oh and they were cursed

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Speaker 5: into slavery to the sons of Shim. The Twelve Tribes

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Speaker 5: believe that the sons of Shim are white people, and

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Speaker 5: then Yaffith would be Asians and Native Americans. That's what

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Speaker 5: the Twelve Tribes believe. Yaffith was also blessed along with Shim,

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Speaker 5: but it says the blessing of Yafhis is that he

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Speaker 5: shall dwell peacefully in the tint of Shim. So basically,

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Speaker 5: it's this white pride, white leadership thing where it's like

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Speaker 5: the white people lead over like rule over the Asians

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Speaker 5: and they live together peacefully. Meanwhile the black people are

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Speaker 5: slaves to the whites.

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Speaker 1: Crazy in Mormonism, there is a belief that black people

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Speaker 1: are the descendants of I want to say, Cain, and

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Speaker 1: that they also were cursed with dark skin, and which

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Speaker 1: is horrible, and like black people weren't allowed to have

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Speaker 1: the priest on until the seventies. But they don't go

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Speaker 1: as far as saying that they're destined to be enslaved

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Speaker 1: or like to sort of serve white people like that

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Speaker 1: is that's some next level shit, right.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes they say Canaan too. That's also in the Bible,

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Speaker 5: because Canaan was Ham's son actually, so saying the descendant

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Speaker 5: of Canaan would be the same as saying the descendants.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, maybe I wonder if I've just confused those stories.

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Speaker 1: Totally possible. So you are a person of mixed race.

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Speaker 5: How did you My dad is black and they base

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Speaker 5: your race on your father's lineage, so they would have

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Speaker 5: considered me a They did consider me a Hamite. So

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Speaker 5: I was taught this as a Hamite, not as a Schemite.

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Speaker 5: I was taught that I was to be a slave

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Speaker 5: to the Semites in order to be righteous. That that

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Speaker 5: was my life life.

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Speaker 3: And how did you take that? How did that feel

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Speaker 3: to you hearing that I had.

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Speaker 5: Been there a couple of years before I heard that.

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Speaker 5: I didn't even know that they believed that until I

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Speaker 5: had been there a few years. This is my main

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Speaker 5: criticism of the Twelve Tribes is that it'd be one

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Speaker 5: thing if they just had all these crazy teachings and

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Speaker 5: let the whole world know what they believe. But they

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Speaker 5: don't do that. If you go to their website, it's

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Speaker 5: not going to say the things that I just told you.

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Speaker 5: They preached the gospel to people that come in, and

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Speaker 5: then once you're baptized, that's when you begin to slowly

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Speaker 5: hear what they call the many other words. That's the

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Speaker 5: phrase they use. The many other words are all the

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Speaker 5: things that are hidden from the rest of the life.

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Speaker 1: That is so you're so right, that is so sneaky,

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Speaker 1: so many times to give.

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Speaker 5: Up all your possessions under this false pretense. You have

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Speaker 5: no idea they're racist sexes, right, like misogynistic homophobes. You

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Speaker 5: have no idea that they are like that until you've

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Speaker 5: been there.

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Speaker 1: Right. It's like I don't think I signed up for

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Speaker 1: a white supremacist group, but suddenly I'm in a ways

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Speaker 1: and I signed my house away, Like okay, Ty, that's

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Speaker 1: really messed up.

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Speaker 3: So when you hear this, are you like that's messed up?

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Speaker 5: Like I didn't didn't take it so well. Yeah, first

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Speaker 5: even though I was like pretty much thoroughly brainwashed. But

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Speaker 5: then eventually I met the guy that they claim started

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Speaker 5: the teaching. I later had doubts about even that. But

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Speaker 5: he's a black man. His name is johann and Abraham. Hmmm,

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Speaker 5: you want to be really clear with what I said.

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Speaker 5: The reason I later had doubts was because I started

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Speaker 5: learning more and more about you know, history and what

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Speaker 5: Christianity taught at one point, and even the Ku Klux Klan,

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Speaker 5: and towards the end of my time in the community,

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Speaker 5: I started having doubts about Yonik. He was all about

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Speaker 5: having a unique culture, and I started realizing that his

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Speaker 5: culture is appealing to a specific type of person, and

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Speaker 5: that it appeals most to Southern white males. And guess

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Speaker 5: what Yonik gets or was a Southern right male. Really,

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Speaker 5: it's not God's culture, it's just Yonik's personal preference, right.

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Speaker 5: I started thinking of it that way, and I wondered, like,

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Speaker 5: Johanna and Abraham is just like the token black guy

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Speaker 5: that he puts out to the public. To say, here's

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Speaker 5: the guy that started that teaching, when really it was

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Speaker 5: a teaching all along in the South that had been

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Speaker 5: taught by the KKK and other Christian based groups. Right.

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Speaker 3: Who was that guy? Johann Abraham, Johann and Abraham.

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Speaker 5: I met him when I lived in Hidden Nite, North Carolina,

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Speaker 5: which is the current headquarters of the Twelve Tribes. They

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Speaker 5: have a huge conference center there. Johann and Abraham lived there,

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Speaker 5: and he's like esteemed as a teacher and the leader

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Speaker 5: of the Hamites in the Twelve Tracks. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 5: had always wanted to meet him, like seeing myself as

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Speaker 5: a Homite, because that's what they told me I was.

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Speaker 5: I sort of had this like admiration.

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Speaker 6: Towards him, Right, that makes sense.

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Speaker 5: So I was excited when I first met him and

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Speaker 5: he told me the hom teaching in the way that

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Speaker 5: I could accept it. It was coming from him, you know,

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Speaker 5: It's different than when it was coming from a li.

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Speaker 6: That is son.

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Speaker 1: So when they say Homites, they mean the black people

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Speaker 1: and the group I mean, what about like Indian people

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Speaker 1: are Like what category would they fall?

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Speaker 5: Well, this is this shows what great science based thinking

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Speaker 5: they have in the community. They think there's only three

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Speaker 5: races with me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: That must have been really hard to swallow. At what

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Speaker 1: point do you start to think like, yeah, no, this real.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't add up and I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: be a part of this.

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Speaker 5: Well. I was there for almost eight years, and it

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Speaker 5: was the last year that I really had those doubts.

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Speaker 5: You asked about my love interests. Yeah, Mevisaar's daughter, Hedasa.

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Speaker 5: I went on a waiting period with her, which is

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Speaker 5: what they call like a courtship, but there's nothing physical.

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Speaker 5: You just you're talking. And they really jerked me around

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Speaker 5: a lot, and I had a hard time with it,

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Speaker 5: Like it was like an on and off again thing.

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Speaker 5: It was up to the leaders or the social meeting

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Speaker 5: leaders to decide whether we could get married or not.

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Speaker 5: And they eventually, after a long, arduous experience, called it off.

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Speaker 5: But then, like they sent me to hid Nite, they

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Speaker 5: sent her out east too, and then they sent me

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Speaker 5: back to California. And then they sent her to California.

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Speaker 5: Like I was moving around a lot, and she would

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Speaker 5: follow me everywhere I'd go. I'm like, why are they

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Speaker 5: sending her? It just didn't make sense. So I went

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Speaker 5: to Mevisair and I'm like, like, what's going on? Are

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Speaker 5: we gonna go back on a wayn pearnit? He's like,

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Speaker 5: I thought we made it clear it's over. So then

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Speaker 5: I like, I don't know, like something died inside of

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Speaker 5: me when that happened. And then there was another girl

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Speaker 5: that I ended up living in Missouri again. They ended

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Speaker 5: up sending me back to where it all began, at

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Speaker 5: the farm in Missouri, and another girl came along. She

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Speaker 5: was from the WOOF program like I was. She came

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Speaker 5: as a willing worker on organic farm. She showed up

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Speaker 5: and said, I want to learn all about farming. And

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Speaker 5: guess who was the head farmer at that h It

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Speaker 5: was me And I'm still single, and they're like okay. Literally,

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Speaker 5: my shepherd at that time, the leader of the community

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Speaker 5: at that time, came to me and he said, she's

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Speaker 5: gonna work with you, Like are you kidding me? I

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Speaker 5: didn't like that idea at first. I'm like, You're gonna

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Speaker 5: have me work alongside a single woman all day every year? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And I didn't have any say in the matter, like

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Speaker 5: she's gonna work with you. I remember the way she

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Speaker 5: would look at me. She'd like smile at me and

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Speaker 5: give me these like googly eyes, just like this sparkle

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Speaker 5: in her eyes, and she was just so like seductive.

350
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Speaker 5: It was so difficult for me to try to like

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Speaker 5: keep this pure mentality, pure thought and try to teach

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Speaker 5: her how to garden and stuff. It's just the two

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Speaker 5: of us out there in the fields all day, every day.

354
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Speaker 5: It was the worst. It was such a bad experience.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how to because I like, I really

356
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Speaker 5: liked like she wasn't dressed modestly like the other woman,

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Speaker 5: because she was a guest. You know, like her shirt

358
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Speaker 5: would open up and she'd been she'd just bend all

359
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Speaker 5: the way over backwards in the garden, you know, like

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Speaker 5: every which way.

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Speaker 3: Was she like trying Like was she trying to? Yeah?

362
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Speaker 5: Yeah, she At a certain point, like I started talking

363
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Speaker 5: about how when I was in Hidden Night I had

364
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Speaker 5: I was also in charge of the garden there, and

365
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Speaker 5: the garden there was on the edge of the forest,

366
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Speaker 5: and you used to fantasize about like living in the wilderness,

367
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Speaker 5: but like by myself and surviving in the wilderness. I

368
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Speaker 5: started talking about things that I shouldn't have as a

369
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Speaker 5: disciple of Yashua, I should not have been saying these things.

370
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Speaker 5: I was in fantasy a lot, and she says, do

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Speaker 5: you want to flee to the wilderness with me? And

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Speaker 5: you know, she like she would giggle and stuff. And

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Speaker 5: I looked at her, and I swear it was like

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Speaker 5: this fight inside of me, and what I ended up

375
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Speaker 5: saying was yes. Oh, and then I felt really guilty

376
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Speaker 5: about it. Oh, it was such a fight in me,

377
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Speaker 5: like I wanted to be loyal to Yashua and God

378
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 5: and then I but I said yes to her when

379
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Speaker 5: I looked in her eyes and saw her smile. And

380
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Speaker 5: there was a little wooded area at the farm in

381
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Speaker 5: Missouri too, and we went into the woods and there

382
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Speaker 5: was this platform that had been built for one of

383
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Speaker 5: the single men to have a tent. I guess like

384
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Speaker 5: it had been built years and years ago during a festival.

385
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Speaker 5: I think it was a bar Mitzvah. Lots of people

386
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Speaker 5: were there, so like they needed extra space for single men,

387
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Speaker 5: so they bought a platform for a tent. So we're

388
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Speaker 5: sitting on this platform together and I got real close

389
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Speaker 5: to her, so we're like side by side, touching each other,

390
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Speaker 5: and I put my arm on her back and instantly

391
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Speaker 5: I just I felt so guilty.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I got up and left.

393
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Speaker 5: I got up and left, and I told David what happened.

394
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Speaker 5: He was milking the cows at the time. He took

395
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Speaker 5: the bucket and he threw it really hard, just he

396
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Speaker 5: threw it really far, and he just stormed off and

397
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 5: he walked all the way down the road. I could

398
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Speaker 5: see him like lifting up his head and screaming.

399
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Speaker 1: He was like praying to God because you put your

400
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Speaker 1: arm on a woman's shoulder.

401
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 5: They had a meeting with my God that night. I

402
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 5: was cut off, which means like you're not in fellowship

403
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 5: with the rest of the community. I couldn't wear a

404
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 5: dietum at the gathering, couldn't raise my hands with everybody else.

405
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 5: It was as if I had, you know, sexually assaulted her.

406
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Speaker 5: It was like the worst thing I could have done

407
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Speaker 5: because I put my arm on her back.

408
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Sinasa, this is like a romantic drama movie.

409
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Speaker 1: I'm like so invested in this story right now.

410
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Speaker 5: So they eventually sent me to a different Missouri community,

411
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Speaker 5: not a farm. I was in a city community where

412
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Speaker 5: they have a cafe, and I was working in the

413
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Speaker 5: cafe in the afternoon. I was teaching children all morning.

414
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Speaker 5: So I'd teach children in the morning, walk down the cafe,

415
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Speaker 5: work in the cafe until closing, and help them close,

416
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Speaker 5: and then walk back to the community. And that was

417
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Speaker 5: my life for many many months. Meanwhile, Caitlin, the girl

418
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Speaker 5: I was interested in, she was at the farm and

419
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Speaker 5: she had been baptized. They when they sent me to

420
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Speaker 5: it was Warsaw, Missouri. It was with the purpose of

421
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Speaker 5: separating us. And they told me that after a few

422
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Speaker 5: months i'd be able to move back to the farm

423
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Speaker 5: and that we could go on a waiting peer. They

424
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Speaker 5: actually said it in a more poetic way. They said,

425
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Speaker 5: when the leaves changed color, so in the fall time

426
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Speaker 5: you can And so fall came and went, winter came

427
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 5: and went in the springtime. I did eventually get sent

428
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Speaker 5: back to the farm, but Caitlin had been sent to Colorado,

429
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Speaker 5: and I was like, what about the waiting period. They're like,

430
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Speaker 5: we'll talk about it at our next Oh.

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Speaker 3: Now, they're just trying to keep you from love at

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Speaker 3: every turn. What is the deal.

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Speaker 5: Next elders meeting comes along, did you talk about it? Oh? No,

434
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Speaker 5: we had more important things to talk about. And it

435
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 5: was also during my time in the Warsaw community, Warsaw, Missouri,

436
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 5: that the worst thing happened in the my whole time

437
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Speaker 5: in the community. This was the absolute worst thing. Yeah.

438
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Speaker 5: So there was a woman who had gotten cancer in

439
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 5: one of the East coast communities and they were quote

440
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 5: curing her at home. They were using like a black

441
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 5: cohosh salve and you know, all kinds of pseudo medicine

442
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 5: type stuff trying to cure her cancer. O. And Yonik

443
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 5: was like he became attached to this idea that she

444
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 5: symbolized the whole Twelve tribes. So there were all these

445
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 5: teachings about her. Her name was Rockefet, which means it's

446
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 5: like a little flower that grows up through the rocks.

447
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 5: So it's like this new life that it's supposed to

448
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 5: give us hope. And he said, like Roquefet, we're being

449
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 5: healed of our sins. So it was like all the

450
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 5: teachings compared the whole twelve tribes to this one woman.

451
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 5: Oh well, she ended up and in Missouri, we didn't

452
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 5: know that she had died. Word hadn't gotten to us.

453
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 5: There was one young man who had been sent to

454
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 5: be with his mother in that community that Roquefe was

455
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 5: living in because she was one of the people taking

456
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 5: care of Rakefe. That young man went back to Missouri

457
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 5: during this time when all the people were still praying

458
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 5: for Rakefet to recover.

459
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and.

460
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 5: After one of the gatherings, when he heard people still

461
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 5: praying for Rokkeeffet, he leans over to one of the

462
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 5: leaders of the community, and I happened to have been

463
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 5: standing right there, so I heard him. I was like

464
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 5: the only one that heard him. He said, they don't

465
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 5: know that she's dead, and that particular leader his response was,

466
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 5: we're waiting to hear from hidden night. It's like saying

467
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 5: we're waiting to hear from headquarters as to what this

468
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 5: means in respect to the teachings. So like they didn't

469
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 5: want to tell us she was dead because they didn't

470
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 5: want people to compare that to the whole Twelve Tribes

471
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 5: being dead, you know, because had been comparing her to

472
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 5: the Twelve Tribes the whole time. So for the next

473
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 5: couple of weeks, I had to stand there in the

474
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 5: gatherings as they were praying for the dead woman to recover,

475
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 5: not knowing that she was like that, And I had

476
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 5: to not say anything because if I said something, I'd

477
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 5: get kicked out. I'd be you know, I'd be in

478
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 5: a lot of trouble if I you know, I wanted

479
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 5: to scream, like whoah. It was the worst experience for me.

480
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 5: And that was when I saw how manipulative the leaders

481
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 5: could be, like to basically tell a lie or be

482
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 5: deceitful for the sake of like preserving this dead religion.

483
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 5: They knew the religion was dead at that point, and

484
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 5: they just didn't want the truth to be known because

485
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 5: they didn't want people to stop believing. Yeah. Wow, So

486
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 5: that was really the point when I like lost all

487
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 5: hope and trust and they had jerked me around for

488
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 5: so long that it was like, Okay, I'm done.

489
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: Was this when you left left or was this just

490
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: like when you started to realize you should Oh.

491
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 5: They sent me back to the farm. Caitlin was in Colorado.

492
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 5: I still had a little bit of hope that we

493
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 5: would get back together, but it was like at that

494
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 5: time I was in and out of face, you know,

495
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 5: I wasn't like I was no longer one hundred percent

496
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 5: convicted at that point. And then there was another incident

497
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 5: that happened shortly after they sent me to the farm.

498
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 5: It was springtime. It was like a year later I

499
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 5: finally ended up back at the farm. It was a

500
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 5: a typical Missouri spring day where it was like really

501
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 5: warm in the daytime, mild weather, and so I was

502
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 5: wearing a T shirt. But they sent me to an

503
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 5: event as a Christian event, and I was supposed to

504
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 5: hand out free papers, and they rushed me. They're like,

505
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 5: I didn't even know I was going until after the gathering,

506
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 5: the evening gathering. They're like, get in the car, let's go,

507
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 5: you know, like we got to go to this event.

508
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 5: So I didn't stop to grab a jacket or anything.

509
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 5: And as is typical in Missouri, the weather changed very

510
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 5: quickly and the wind was blown strong, and it was

511
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 5: like a forty degree drop in temperature. And I have

512
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 5: sickle cell amina, so going from hot to play really quickly,

513
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 5: it triggered a sickle cell crisis. So I was in

514
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 5: an intense pain and I kept thinking, is this what

515
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 5: the lake of fires? I remember all night that night,

516
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 5: just laying in my bed in excruciating pain. Like I

517
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 5: went to that event, I handed out the papers, I

518
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 5: did everything I was supposed to do, and I stood

519
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 5: there in pain, talking to people about the twelve train,

520
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 5: and I felt like I did everything I was supposed

521
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 5: to do that God was sending me to do, and

522
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 5: then He's still punishing me with intense pain, and I'm like,

523
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 5: why would you do this? Like why is this happening?

524
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 5: I think that's really the point where I just it

525
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 5: was the final nail in the coffin where I just

526
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 5: lost all faith.

527
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: Wow, there was a Greek woman, I believe that came

528
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: who told you about like a Newdiest colony that was

529
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: a few tons over.

530
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 6: So you kind of.

531
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 5: Escaped to go Yeah that was my first year.

532
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 6: Okay, so yeah, that's that's back in the day. But

533
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 6: how did how did you escape? In the In the end, I.

534
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 5: Had been there for a year. Yeah, I was tempted,

535
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 5: and I left the community for a night, and I

536
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 5: actually took free papers with me because I wanted, like

537
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 5: I wanted to be with this woman that had showed

538
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 5: up as a guest and then laughed. She said she

539
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 5: was at this newdest community and so I like wanted

540
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 5: to be there, and see, I was so tempted, and

541
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 5: so I like ran away in the middle of the night,

542
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 5: and then I long story short, I ended up making

543
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 5: my way back to the community and having to repent,

544
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 5: to apologize to the whole careery. It was just a

545
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 5: silly incident how I ended up leaving for good. Yes,

546
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 5: there was a woman involved. So while I was waiting

547
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 5: for Caitlin for like more than a year, another girl

548
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 5: showed up. She moved to the farm around the time

549
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 5: I moved back for the final time. They sent me

550
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 5: away from that place and back to that place three

551
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 5: different times. Her name was Molly, and I didn't think

552
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 5: much of her at first. I was still thinking about Caitlin.

553
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 5: We lived together a total of a belief around six

554
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 5: or seven months.

555
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: But as in like lived on the community at the

556
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: same time.

557
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: In the community, not really talking to each other because

558
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 5: we were both single and that just was not allowed.

559
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: So it was the fall of twenty twelve. I have

560
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 5: a stepdad in northern Michigan. The whole time that I

561
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 5: was having all these doubts about the community, the main

562
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 5: thing holding me was I didn't know where I was

563
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 5: going to go. I knew that if I left, I'd

564
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 5: be leaving with nothing. I didn't know who I was

565
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: going to run to, and I ended up talking to

566
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 5: my stepdad, who invited me to his farm, and so

567
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 5: that was like a really tempting proposal. I started daydreaming

568
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 5: about the farm, just living and working on his farm,

569
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 5: not having to deal with the community anymore, and all

570
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 5: the religious aspects and the hypocrisy that I had grown

571
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 5: to hate. So I had a way out after talking

572
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 5: to him. But Mollie was also wanting to leave at

573
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 5: that point, and she was talking about hitchhiking. So my

574
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 5: first conversation I had with her that was like, you know,

575
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 5: bad that he was like absolutely against community rules. I

576
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 5: felt sorry for I told her, you don't have to hitchhike.

577
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 5: You can leave with me and you could live together

578
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 5: on my stepdad's farm. She thought about it for a

579
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 5: while and then she wrote me this little love note,

580
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 5: and I showed it to one of the other single brothers.

581
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: We were working together on a kind of plumbing job.

582
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 5: He was a professional plumber, so I went to help him.

583
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: He was also fairly new to the community, like he

584
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 5: was an older man that had recently joined, and he

585
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 5: was skilled at plumbing, so they were actually sending him

586
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 5: on jobs, but they would send me to help him.

587
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 5: So it was that day while I was working with him,

588
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 5: I showed him the letter. He was a very religious man,

589
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 5: very devoted. On the way home, I had said something

590
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 5: that offended him because he was talking about how much

591
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 5: he wanted to be humble, and I was like, isn't

592
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 5: that kind of a proud thing to say? Like you're

593
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 5: kind of focused on yourself? Then that's what I said,

594
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 5: because of like my whole experience in the Twelve Tribes

595
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 5: was just like forgetting all about yourself entirely, Like that's

596
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 5: what I was taught, was true humility, like you're only

597
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 5: thinking about serving others, and this guy is just he

598
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 5: would just like constantly talk about himself. I'm gonna be

599
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 5: like the most humble man that ever lived, you know,

600
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 5: Like it's isn't that kind of a proud thought? And

601
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 5: he got really offended at me, And I think that

602
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 5: kind of contributed to what he did next, which was

603
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 5: take the letter and sho oh no. He showed it

604
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 5: to the leaders. So then after the gathering that night,

605
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 5: they had a meeting with Molly and I. She basically

606
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 5: told them off. She's like, I don't like the way

607
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 5: you've been treating him, and I'm gonna leave with him,

608
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 5: and I'm going to marry him.

609
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: Wow.

610
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 5: And so they sent us away together. Basically they just

611
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 5: gave us bus tickets.

612
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: At least they did help you get.

613
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 5: Out was a ten dollars prepaid phone card, Wow, that

614
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 5: I could use to call my stepdad. So we left

615
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 5: with a phone card, a bus ticket for each of us,

616
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 5: and just the clothes on our backs. That was pretty

617
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 5: much fully cow.

618
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you had access to someone who

619
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: could provide you somewhere to go, because so many people don't.

620
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: I think that's like, it's a really desperate situation that

621
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people end up in is where they

622
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: have no possessions left, they have no resources, they have

623
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: no connections.

624
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: So what do you do. You just stay because you

625
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: don't really have a choice.

626
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 5: They totally we love you, please don't leave, and they

627
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 5: even tell you like, if you do leave, you're gonna

628
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 5: burn in The lake.

629
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: Effectis oh my gosh.

630
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 5: Yes.

631
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: I mean that alone is like such a deterrent. But

632
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: when you finally get to the point where you feel ready,

633
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: there are so many people who just like you know

634
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people and the children of God. We've

635
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: talked to people from that group, and like they're like

636
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: dirt poor. They have nothing, and you also had nothing.

637
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: But I'm just like so happy that you had that,

638
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: you had at least your stepdad.

639
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: What happened with you and Molly? What happened?

640
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 5: We did eventually get married and had a son together.

641
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 5: He's now eight years old. Molly and I recently split up.

642
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 5: It was last Memorial Day.

643
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry.

644
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 5: That's a whole sad story. I would have never left her.

645
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: I was very much in love with her. We were

646
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 5: married for eight years, but it got to the point

647
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 5: where she had to go. Before meeting her, she had

648
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 5: been in Colorado. She was addicted to drugs. I don't

649
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 5: know which drugs. She disclosed to me that she had

650
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 5: previously been addicted. She was sober for ten years until

651
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: last screen.

652
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: Oh heartbreaking and just like drain dollar accounts out for

653
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 4: weeks at a time, hanging out with all these other men,

654
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 4: and it was like I was.

655
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 5: I pleaded with her to stop for his sake, and

656
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 5: she basically just told me she didn't care. Oh so

657
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 5: I had to send her packing it So unfortunately, this

658
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 5: story has very sad and much sadder than my book. Yeah,

659
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 5: because you know, life goes on and things shit happens.

660
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so sorry. My brother is an addict. We

661
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: were just talking about this on last week's episode. But

662
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: my brother is an addict, and Megan also has struggled

663
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: with addiction.

664
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just awful. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

665
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 5: Yeah. So at this point, I'm just a single dad

666
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 5: trying to raise Terrence by myself and do the best

667
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 5: I can work in full time too. I went through

668
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 5: five different babysitters. It's just oh my gosh.

669
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: And you're living in do you say ann Arbor Battle Creek.

670
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 5: Which Molly actually dragged us down here. We were living

671
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 5: in northern Michigan. It was beautiful, had a nice job.

672
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: I got laid off because of COVID. It was her

673
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 5: idea to move to either Kalamazoo or Battle Creek, and

674
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 5: she said, let's both look for work on indeed, and

675
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 5: whoever finds a job first, like whether it's in Kalamazoo

676
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 5: or Battle Creek, will move there. I happened to be

677
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 5: the one that found the job and we moved here

678
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 5: to Battle Creek.

679
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: Well A, I'm glad that you got out and had

680
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: hopefully some happy times. If anyone knows any great jobs,

681
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: in Battle Creek, Michigan.

682
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: Please please dm us because.

683
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: I know you're looking for a better situation right now,

684
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: and I hope that you find that you really deserve.

685
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 3: You've been through so much. How do you feel about

686
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: it all?

687
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 5: Now?

688
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: You wrote this book? What is your take now on this? Sexpence?

689
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 5: It's both good and bad. I learned a lot. I

690
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 5: regret a lot looking back, Like what I would have

691
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 5: liked to have done in my twenties was to work

692
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 5: hard and save up money. And I feel like I

693
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: wasted the strength of my youth, especially having sickle cell.

694
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 5: I feel like I'm getting old and like I have

695
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 5: so much less energy now than I did back then,

696
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 5: and I feel like all that energy was just wasted

697
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 5: because like I would work sixteen hours a day. Imagine

698
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 5: if I was working sixteen hours a day at a

699
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 5: pain job, right, ay job? It could have been minimum

700
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 5: yeah yeah, over time, that would have been a really

701
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 5: afty paycheck. If you're working sixteen hours a day, six

702
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 5: days a week constantly throughout your twenty right, how much

703
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 5: money I could have saved up? And now I'm just

704
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 5: completely flat.

705
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: Bro, Oh that's still in your future?

706
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 5: Jeez? Yeah, I want a better future for my son.

707
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 5: He's very intelligent. He needs to go to college. You know,

708
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 5: he's a really smart kid. It's going to be their

709
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 5: engineer or computer promum.

710
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

711
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 5: So that's my main focus now. Obviously I've changed my beliefs,

712
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 5: but a lot of that wouldn't have happened had it

713
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 5: not been for the community and what I learned within

714
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 5: the community too. I did learn a lot, and I

715
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 5: feel like they helped me to grow because when I

716
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 5: compare who I was as a person going in and

717
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 5: then who I was as a person coming out, much

718
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 5: much different. If there's one thing working sixteen hours a day,

719
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 5: six days a week, we'll teach you it's a good

720
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 5: work ethic and how not to be lazy and waste

721
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 5: your life.

722
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: Well, and you learned so many skills, right, Like you

723
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: know how to do all things now.

724
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 5: I was working in the cafe, and I was baking,

725
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 5: and I was teaching children, I was working on the farms.

726
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 5: I learned all about, like so many different aspects of

727
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 5: farming too, which I hope someday to use again. It'd

728
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 5: be great to have my own.

729
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you ever reconnect it all with the with

730
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: the other girl that you loved Caitlyn.

731
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 5: No idea where she is now. Last I heard of

732
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 5: her was eight years ago. Nine years ago, I heard

733
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 5: that she was in the California community. I was. Actually

734
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 5: Mollie had left for a time. Her and my stepdad

735
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 5: didn't get along, so she went back to Colorado for

736
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 5: a time. But then that was when she found out

737
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 5: she was pregnant. Was like a few weeks after, Oh shit,

738
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 5: and that's when we found out we're gonna have the son.

739
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: So I was like talking to her all the time.

740
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 5: And what happened was she was feeling really desperate and

741
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 5: went back to the community for a short time. So

742
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 5: she was actually living in the Colorado Twelve Tribe community

743
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 5: for I don't know how long, maybe a month's total.

744
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 5: And so I was calling that community every day from

745
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 5: my stepdad's farm, and I was talking to the leaders there.

746
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: I even wrote a letter, and Mollie told me that

747
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 5: they read the letter out loud in the gathering.

748
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, the.

749
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 5: Letter that I had written. No, because I was like

750
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 5: talking about my struggles with to a god I no

751
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 5: longer believed in it, Like I remember that line being

752
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 5: in the letter of things like that, And they just

753
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: wanted to convey to the community, like the struggle that

754
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: someone goes through when they so they read my letter

755
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 5: out loud. But it was during one of those phone

756
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 5: calls I was talking to the leader of the Colorado community.

757
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 5: I was telling him I felt bad about how I

758
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 5: left things with Caitlin because it was unresolved. I was

759
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 5: basically waiting to go on a waiting period with her,

760
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 5: and as far as I know, she was still interested

761
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 5: in me. I was still interested in her, and then

762
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 5: I just like met Molly and took off. I didn't

763
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 5: want to hurt her, you know, Like I felt like

764
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 5: bad for Caitlin, like, okay, if she's waiting for me,

765
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 5: and then I took off with another woman like that.

766
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 5: I felt really guilty about that. So I told him

767
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 5: that and she and he basically said, oh, she doesn't

768
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 5: care about that. And he's the one that told me

769
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 5: that she was in the California community and that she's

770
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 5: just being a faithful disciple and doesn't really care about

771
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: you anymore. It's basically what he called.

772
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: Me unreliable source. Maybe, but well, gosh, okay.

773
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: So if someone else were maybe interested in joining an

774
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: intentional community or being a part of Wolf.

775
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: Is it called Wolf?

776
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't even know if they're still around anymore.

777
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 3: The website's still up. I'm looking at it right now.

778
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you say to them as far as

779
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: like how to be mindful about where they end up

780
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: and kind of how to guard against communities like this one?

781
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 5: Oh man, there were so many red flags. Don't give

782
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 5: up too much obvious. Yeah. It's one thing for people

783
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 5: to ask you to help them out on the farm,

784
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 5: that's what the intention is. They shouldn't be asking you

785
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 5: for much more than that. Yeah, that's for red flags

786
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 5: on the Twelve Tribes. I mean, they couldn't be more obvious.

787
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: But people like myself, desperate people, Yeah, jump in anyway.

788
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 5: But yeah, they tell you to give up all your possessions. Right,

789
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 5: pretty obvious red flag right right there. Don't sacrifice yourself,

790
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 5: continue to be who you are are. Don't give into

791
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 5: the social pressure, right of high control social groups like

792
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 5: the Twelve Tribes. That's how they control you is mostly

793
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 5: through social pressure. Everybody's doing the same thing, so you're

794
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 5: compelled to do what they're doing. Yeah, even if it's.

795
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Right, right, and in the community like that, it's hard

796
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: to you really only have the influence of that community

797
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: around you. So I think that's what makes it harder

798
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: to withstand that social pressure, Whereas when you're out in

799
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: the world, you know, you're talking to different people all

800
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: the time and you have multiple influences. But like, if

801
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: it's in closed community, that's there's really one source of information,

802
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: and that is something I mean, fortunately we have the

803
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: Internet now, but still I think, yeah, that would be

804
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: something to be to be mindful about. I wanted to

805
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: ask about the fires, but I don't know if we

806
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: have time to get into a whole thing.

807
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 5: There's not too much to say about it except I

808
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 5: lived through fire when I was living on the farm

809
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 5: in Missouri, and then later I found out that their

810
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 5: cafe burned down, and they had a wood shop where

811
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 5: they built furniture also burned down. It was like attached

812
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 5: the cafe building. So there were all these fires. And

813
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 5: when I left the community, I was just googling about

814
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 5: the Twelve Tribes and I came across an old news

815
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 5: article and what caught my attention was the name of

816
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 5: the leader of the Missouri community. He had been listed

817
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 5: as the owner of a fire that had happened in

818
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 5: Vermont and I was like, that's odd. So now there's

819
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 5: three fires with connected to properties that are in his name. Interesting,

820
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 5: And I started wondering, and I wrote about this in

821
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 5: the Reddit thread that you mentioned earlier. I wrote about

822
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 5: this three years ago, so three years before the Marshall fire.

823
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 5: I mentioned that I thought it was there were a

824
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 5: few suspicious fires within the Twelve Tribes, and I speculated

825
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 5: as to whether they were intentionally starting fires to collect

826
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 5: insurance money. They had already planned on selling the farm

827
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 5: and than the cafe wen Stone, the woodshot printstone, right,

828
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 5: did they were having trouble finding a buyer? Maybe they

829
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 5: just you know, burn it down and collected insurance money.

830
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 5: I don't know. It was a speculation at that time. Now,

831
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 5: three years later, that post is getting a lot of

832
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 5: attention again because three years later people are going to

833
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 5: that Reddit thread finding what I had said.

834
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: And they're like, the Marshall fires, Yeah, right, I don't know.

835
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 5: At that time, it was just a speculation. I made

836
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 5: it very clear, I'm just speculating. I don't have any ever. Yeah,

837
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 5: and now three years later they're under investigation for starting

838
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 5: on wildfire. It's like, okay, Like I is that a

839
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 5: coincidence or are they really actually intentionally burning stuff right right?

840
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 3: We don't know. We're just speculating.

841
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: We're just putting the information out there for people to

842
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: look into themselves. But it is very interesting. Thank you

843
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: so much. Do you have anywhere people can find you online?

844
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: And also, is there just an anything else you'd like

845
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: to say that you feel like you didn't.

846
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 6: Get to say?

847
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 5: Well, I have a unique name. I don't think anyone

848
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 5: else has a Sinosta Kalucci, Si n Asta col Ucci.

849
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 5: I'm on Twitter and Facebook. I hardly ever use Twitter, though,

850
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 5: to be honest, I'm not on social media a whole lot.

851
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: Honestly, that's for the best, because I'm on social media

852
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: a lot makes me miserable, so you're probably better off.

853
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 5: I work a lot. And then my book, you can

854
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 5: find it on Amazon, maybe a few other places, Barnes

855
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 5: and Noble. Better than a Turkish prison. What I learned

856
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 5: from life in a religious cult awesome.

857
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: Well, I hope everyone goes out and buys it because

858
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: this is such an incredible story and I can't wait.

859
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: I bet there's so much more great detail in the book.

860
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing with us. I really

861
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

862
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

863
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: Okay, what a sweet man. I hope that he finds

864
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: everything that he is looking.

865
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 3: For me too.

866
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: So last week we discussed whether or not you join

867
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,479
Speaker 1: and the answer was it.

868
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 6: Was a no. It was a strong no, right.

869
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 3: And I was like, but I want to live on

870
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: a farm.

871
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 5: One day.

872
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I did grow up on a farm.

873
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: One day I'll own a farm.

874
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: I want to look at the Yellow Deli website, the

875
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: website of the restaurant chain this group bones because it's

876
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: super interesting.

877
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 3: So a short history of Yellow Deli.

878
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: In the early seventies, life for many of us was

879
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: in the process of change. Those old enough to remember

880
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: those days will nod thoughtfully as their minds drift back

881
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: to remember the end of the Vietnam War protests and

882
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: the calming of the revolutionary drumbeat that had throbbed in

883
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: our young veins.

884
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 3: Jesus paths set before us.

885
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 1: Then we're polarizing. Would we conform or continue to press

886
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: on trying to change the world. We were becoming oh

887
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: so tired as change came hard. The drugs that had

888
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: quote enlightened us were beginning to disappoint us, as the

889
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: early excitement now headed towards various full blown addictions. It

890
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: had been heartbreaking to see friends od into some distant

891
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: never never land, leaving us far behind. Would it all

892
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: end this way? So out go the communes and income

893
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: the three piece business suits. Get ready for the technological

894
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: roller coaster ride of your life. The hippies are now

895
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: becoming millionaires. The evolution of a hippiecrite see hippiecrit dot org.

896
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: They're trying to make a pun about hippies and hypocrisy.

897
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, yep, yep, Okay.

898
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: But if you missed the train and decided to make

899
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: the best of the peace, love and happiness movements starting

900
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: a new way of life in the South where cotton

901
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: grows high and life is simple. Really, we're really gonna

902
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: reference cotton as whitcotton as being the positive thing about

903
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: the South.

904
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 6: Okay, like cotton? All right?

905
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: The Yellow Delis started up about this time. It was

906
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: to go on a course unimagined blah blah blah blah blah,

907
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: Chattanooga blah blah blah, serving healthy food immediate success. At

908
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: the bottom of the hand drawn menu was scribbled a

909
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: sincere and provocative question, we serve the fruit of the spirit,

910
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: why not ask? The term fruit of the Spirit comes

911
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: from a Bible verse about love and joy and peace

912
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: being the fruit which would be produced by the lives

913
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: of those who knew God. Anyway, they have faith in

914
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: the cafe, their paradigm shift in our lives through to

915
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: the spirit, and then people joined our cause. The strife

916
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: and division many of us had seen among the Christian

917
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: trans as we grew up and had caused us to

918
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: be disillusioned with the prospect of finding any kind of

919
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: hope there. But as time went on, we sense that

920
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: there was something holding people back within that system for

921
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: having the same sold out zeal we had now found.

922
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: Now they're talking about how there's a movement. They live

923
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: in twelve different geographical areas. Yet we are still small

924
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: in comparison to the huge fatal flaw of human beings

925
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 1: against which we have set ourselves on the battlefield of life. Yes,

926
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: it is against a fatal flaw which has kept humans down, divided,

927
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: and basically dead throughout history. That flaw is selfishness and

928
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: her many manifestations greed, jealousy, envy, strife, hostility, bloodshed, really

929
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: all those things that keep humans from just being friends.

930
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: Her ugly fingers, stretch themselves into the smallest corners of

931
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: our lives, marriages, kindergart kindergartens, selfishness in kindergartens.

932
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I did once hit a girl over

933
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: the head first taking something from me.

934
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: But I mean, look, I stole my little pony when

935
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: I was in kindergarten.

936
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 6: Oh, you would have gotten fucked up if you were

937
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 6: in my class. How's my little phony?

938
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: Not from a person from the store. And then I okay,

939
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: though my parents found out, and I cried and cried

940
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: and I felt so bad. But you know, selfish kindergarteners. Anyway,

941
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: that is the story of the Twelve Tribes and the

942
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: Yellow Deli huh that started so long ago.

943
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 3: Love is our home?

944
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 6: What is yours?

945
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 5: You know?

946
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: If I had a cult, I think that a restaurant

947
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: that sort of exuded this loving, communal hippie vibe would

948
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: totally be a great way to recruit people.

949
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,959
Speaker 2: I don't know any other way that would be as convenient, delicious,

950
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: and effective.

951
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: Right like TikTok would be convenient and effective, but not

952
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: delicious exactly.

953
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 6: And those are my three criteria for a cult.

954
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 2: All right, yes, all right, the end Thank you guys

955
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: for spending another week talking with us. We cannot wait

956
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: to talk to you again next week, but for now

957
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: remember to follow your guy, watch out for red flags,

958
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: and never ever try.

959
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 4: Bye bye

960
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: Mm hmm