1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. It 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: is Saturday. It is time for another Vault episode. This 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: is going to be Mud Part three, which originally published 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: seven thirteen, twenty twenty three. Let's sync right into it. 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb. 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part three 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: in our series on mud. Yes, mud, regular mud wet soil, 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 3: especially of the clay and silt sized particle variety. So 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 3: in previous parts of the series, we talked about what 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: mud is, what its physical properties are, the role it 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: played in the history of shaping Earth's continents, and how 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: life colonized those continents. We talked in the previous episode 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 3: about many animal behaviors that relate to mud. We talked 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 3: about pigs wallowing in mud, Arnold Schwarzenegger wallowing and mud. 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 3: We talked about mud skippers and other animals whose lives 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: involve mud in one way or another. But of course, 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: mud also plays a big role in human culture and 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 3: human technology, even in the building of many important human settlements. 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to focus on today mud 22 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 3: especially as a building material for humans. 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the mud brick especially because you know, we 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: could build things out of mud, I guess without forming 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: some sort of a brick or you know, something to 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: to stack, something to use, but it would be messy, 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be very effective. And that's where the mud 28 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: brick comes into play here, and the ability to turn 29 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: mud into this thing that then can be mass produced 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: and used to build a variety of things. Brian M. 31 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: Fagan features several chapters that touch on mud bricks in 32 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: The Negreat Inventions of the Ancient World. In a chapter 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: on dwellings with Kate, Spence pointed out that we we 34 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: absolutely can't consider human dwellings and the development and advancement 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: of materials and techniques without also taking into account the 36 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: shape of human culture at a given time and the 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: environment in which they're constructed. 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 3: The series of episodes has repeatedly just forced me to 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 3: think about the interesting web of back and forth interactions 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 3: between inorganic geological conditions in certain places on Earth and 41 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: the life and culture that arises there. 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right now. On that first count, that 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: idea of you know what you know, where are people going, 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: where are they living their lives in ancient times. You know, 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: as we've discussed before, there are modes of life and 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: technology that makes sense if you're settled long term in 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: a single area, But other modes make more sense if 48 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: you're nomadic or semi nomadic, as many of our global 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: ancestors were. So for nomadic peoples, it might make more 50 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: sense to depend for shelter on some manner of say 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: wood frame plus hide tense scenario, or to depend on 52 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: very fixed, even naturally occurring shelters that you could take 53 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: advantage of periodically, such as caves. There's also room in 54 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: this for more permanent structures that seasonal settlements, places that 55 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: you're going to come back to again and again, you know, 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: when the seasons allow it, or the you know, crops, 57 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: movements of animals, whatever happens to be the case, and 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: then there are going to be you know, other modes 59 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: of temporary constructions that are going to make sense as well. 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: But the other main point is that of climate and environment. 61 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: What is possible in a given area from a local 62 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: material standpoint, would for example, makes an excellent material for 63 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: building in ancient times as well as in our own 64 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: modern world. But if it's harder to come by, if 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: it has to be imported, et cetera, then it may 66 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: make more sense to use it only for key roles 67 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: such as is for instance, framing, and lean more heavily 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: on other materials that are easier to acquire. 69 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: Makes sense. Yeah. 70 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Now, Spence does note in their chapter that the thing 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: about many ancient building supplies is that they simply don't 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: survive the passage of time. But we know our ancestors 73 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: used wood and even bones as tent structures between twenty 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: five and twelve thousand years ago in Eurasia at Jericho, 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: which this book site says at least at the time, 76 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: the earliest evidence of occupation there dated back to before 77 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: nine thousand BCE, and it seems that the earliest houses 78 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: there were built out of quote unquote clay lumps and 79 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: probably also made use of wooden building frames before they 80 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: transition to mud brick buildings. For first first circular in nature, 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: and then later they used rectangular designs with multiple rooms. 82 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: So tell me about mud bricks. 83 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so mud bricks are pretty fascinating. I didn't expect 84 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: to get so into mud bricks, but this book, and 85 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: then another one I'm going to refer to in a 86 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: bit really get into it and made me appreciate them. So, 87 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: mud bricks are especially useful in arid environments because mud bricks, 88 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: like other forms of solid masonry, are poor conductors of heat. 89 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: Thick walls of mud brick will slow the rate at 90 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: which the exterior solar heat is absorbed into the interior. 91 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 3: Environment, so they're good insulators if you're living in say, 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 3: a hot desert. 93 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And additionally, structures like this, which are still common 94 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: throughout North Africa, the author notes here, often feature high 95 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: ceilings and small openings set high in the wall to 96 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: encourage airflow. Also flat roofs since there tends to be 97 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: less rainfall to contend with. So it's a design that 98 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: has stood the test of time. It's the building material 99 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: that is stood the test of time. Now, the thing is, 100 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: of course, all buildings in general require upkeep, no matter 101 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: what you're building in them out. Modern buildings upkeep as well, 102 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: But of course mud brick buildings require regular upkeep against erosion. 103 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: That is specific to the nature of mud bricks, and 104 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: we'll get into that more in just a bit as well. Now, 105 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: in the seventy grade Inventions of the Ancient World. It's 106 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: later noted in a chapter with Jeffrey P. Killen that 107 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: mud bricks were also used in the construction of furniture, 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: such as among the poorer classes. In ancient Egypt, Wood 109 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: and ivory were materials of the wealthy, while mud brick 110 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: platforms served as beds by night and benches by day 111 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: for common folk. 112 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: As a side note on the subject of ancient Egyptian beds, 113 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: if you've never seen ancient Egyptian the head rests, you 114 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 3: should look that up. Where instead of pillows, they would 115 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: have sort of a stand for your head to lie on, 116 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: like a rigid stand. I find that really interesting. 117 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't we discuss this in the Invention of 118 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: the Bed episode. 119 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, memory Serves. 120 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: We talked about the work of a researcher who was 121 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: like recreating these and testing them out. 122 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I don't remember what the conclusions of that were, 123 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: but yeah, very interesting. So imagine instead of a soft pillow, 124 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 3: you use like a little hard podium for your head 125 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: to lie on. 126 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Now elsewhere in this book, it also points out that 127 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: extensive town walls appeared in the sixth and fifth centuries BCE, 128 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: often constructed of mud bricks, but with stone facing or 129 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: and or rubble filling. An example of this would be 130 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the long walls of classical Athens. These were destroyed by 131 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: the Roman general Sula during the first century BCE, and 132 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: they had been rebuilt even before that. So you know, 133 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: it's the nature of fortifications. And then also you know 134 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: that some of the part of it also is the 135 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: nature of mud bricks, which we'll come back to. By 136 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: the third century BCE, mud bricks were a common material 137 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: in the construction of walled cities among various Mediterranean civilizations, 138 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: according to Fagan. Now, one something that also comes up 139 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: in these chapters is that mud bricks would have also 140 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: been used in the construction of what was considered an antiquity, 141 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: one of the seven Wonders of the ancient world, the 142 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: hanging gardens of Babylon or the garden terraces of Babylon 143 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: that are often attributed to the ruler Nebechonezer, who lived 144 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: six oh five through five sixty two BCE. 145 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: Now, when I was a kid, I had a little 146 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: booklet that I read a lot that was about the 147 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 3: seven wonders of the ancient world, and one of them 148 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: was the hanging gardens of Babylon, And I never understood 149 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: what the deal with the word hanging was. I was 150 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 3: imagining them like dangling from chains, but what were those 151 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 3: dangling from? I didn't get the hanging part. 152 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems that a more accurate description would 153 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: be terraced. We're essentially talking about great terraced gardens. So 154 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to get into this a little bit more 155 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: because you know, obviously if something's being held up is 156 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: one of the wonders of the age is during this time, 157 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: and it was made out of mud bricks, mud bricks 158 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: being something that you know, you might without knowing much 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: about it, you might just think, well, this is a 160 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: simplistic this is an old fashioned form of construction. Well, 161 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: let's look a little deeper. So I picked up a book. 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: This is a new book came out just this year 163 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: that we've actually been been in discussions with having the 164 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: author on the show. Even it's such a neat looking volume. 165 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: It's titled The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, Science, Engineering, 166 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: and Technology by Michael Dennis Higgins. It's a great book. 167 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: It looks at not only what's historically known and or 168 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: alleged regarding these wonders and how it ties into what 169 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: we know about the geology of the regions where these 170 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: wonders were located or thought to be located, but also 171 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: what recreation in the modern world might look like. So 172 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Chapter three of the book deals with the Gardens of Mesopotamia, 173 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: because while the traditional view Higgins rides is that the 174 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: gardens were set in the walled city of Babylon and 175 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: what is now central Iraq just south of Baghdad during 176 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: the sixth century BCE, there is also growing support for 177 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: the idea that they weren't located here at all, but 178 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: were in Ninevah during the seventh century BCE, in what 179 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: is now northern Iraq near mosul Oh. 180 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: So that would make sense because then I would assume 181 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,359 Speaker 3: that would mean they wouldn't be the gardens of Babylon 182 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: but of Assyria, right because Ninevah was the capital of Assyria, 183 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: but still would have been between the rivers, still would 184 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 3: have been Mesopotamia. 185 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing that that Higgins stresses, and we have 186 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: to keep in mind with the Wonders of the ancient world, 187 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: the seven Wonders of the Ancient World, is that these 188 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: were these this was like a list that was that 189 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: was put together in the Hellenistic world, and the concerning 190 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: things that were often far away. And this is especially 191 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: the case. These were the This, These were the East. 192 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: This was the east most wonder on the list by 193 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: a considerable margin, and it was so far away that 194 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: you could basically say whatever you wanted and it would 195 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: not be questioned. 196 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: I've often thought of the writings about these as kind 197 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: of the Forbes travel Guide of the ancient Greeks, but 198 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 3: maybe with some shaky sourcing. 199 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, the idea of the seventh Wonders of 200 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: the Ancient World are basically a first century BCE creation, 201 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: and in this particular case, they're dealing with something from 202 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: the sixth or seventh century BC. Higgins writes, quote, we 203 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: will never know definitively the where and when of the gardens, 204 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: and it is likely that more than one Mesopotamian ruler 205 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: had remarkable gardens that may have been conflated in stories 206 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: and accounts relayed to the far off Mediterranean world. Higgins 207 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: also had this other great little addition. He says, quote, 208 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: we should perhaps be wary of imposing a modern view 209 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: of garden life. In one panel from the north palace 210 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: of Ashur, Banipal, king of the Neo Assyrian Empire from 211 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: six sixty nine through six point thirty one BCE. The 212 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: king is taking refreshments while listening to music with his 213 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: wife amid luxuriant trees, from one of which hangs the 214 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: severed head of an enemy. So I don't know quite 215 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,119 Speaker 1: what to make of that, but fair enough. 216 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: Well, you like to celebrate your accomplishments, and that can 217 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 3: take many forms. 218 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: Yes, anyway, onto the bricks. So their role in the 219 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,119 Speaker 1: construction of the gardens would vary depending on where exactly 220 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: this garden would have been. Higgins writes that there are 221 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: five ancient descriptions of the gardens. The most detailed stems 222 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: from Greek writer Deodora Siclis during the first century BCE, 223 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: but he does not identify the actual city where this 224 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: is supposed to be, and he also doesn't name the ruler. 225 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: All he says is that it is a quote Syrian king. Still, 226 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: there are a lot of details mentioned in this account, 227 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: and it specifically mentions bricks. He describes ascending tiered terraces 228 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: full of abundant plat life, made level with the opposing 229 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: battlements of the city opposing as in like they're inside 230 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: the city and they're looking at the you know, their 231 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: opposite an interior wall. So this particular account describes that 232 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: the roofs over a series of galleries were layered with 233 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: stone beams. Then they put down a layer of reeds 234 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: and bitumen. Then two courses of baked bricks bonded by 235 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: cement were put over this. And we'll have more on 236 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: baked bricks in a minute. Then there's a layer of 237 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: lead to prevent moisture from creeping down, and then enough 238 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: dirt and soil on top of all that to accommodate 239 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: the roots of quote the largest trees. So a considerable 240 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: garden project any way you look at it, like definitely 241 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: more involved than anything any of us are doing in 242 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: our backyards. Okay, so I mentioned baked bricks. When it 243 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: come to mud bricks specifically, so Higgins stresses that these 244 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: were mud bricks were the most important building material in 245 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: Mesopotamian cities, and this was especially true of Babylon, which 246 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: had no outcroppings of stone in the immediate area Nineveh. 247 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: On the other hand, up there there was a local 248 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: supply of limestone, so they were able to lean on 249 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: that much more for their construction needs. However, mud bricks 250 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: were still used there because they were traditional and or inexpensive. 251 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: All right, So you could quarry out stone bricks up 252 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 3: in ninev if you need them, but mud bricks are 253 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: still just cheaper and more efficient in many ways. And 254 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: you know, there were something people were used to using 255 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: and they get the job done. 256 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: Right right now. The process of making the mud bricks 257 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: is also very important here, and I thought very interesting. 258 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: I just never had looked into this before, but in 259 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: this particular, their mud bricks you used throughout arid parts 260 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: of the world where people have settled, but these specifically, 261 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: these would have been sediments washed down the tigris and 262 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: euphrates from what is now Turkey. Then people would collect 263 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: the mud and then they would mix in fresh straw. 264 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: This would give the mud bricks, once they had had 265 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: time to dry, additional strength. And this reminded me of 266 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: our episode on Pie Create Joe about creating building materials 267 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: out of ice and how something had to be added, 268 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: something had to be mixed in there with it to 269 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: give them additional stability. 270 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 3: What was it? Was it, like, I want to say, 271 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 3: like chopped up newspaper or straw or sawdust or something 272 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 3: to that effect. 273 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so fresh straw would be serving the purpose here, 274 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: and it does seem like it did need to be fresh, 275 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: and we'll come back to that in a second. Then, 276 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: so you have the mud you've added in the fresh straw. 277 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: Then you mold these into more or less uniform brick shapes, 278 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: and then you leave them to air dry. And then 279 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: once dry, you know today you have bricks for building 280 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: all sorts of structures. So this began as mud, but 281 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: it ends up being sturdy enough to build with, right, 282 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: So there are some pros and cons here. So the 283 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: pros the big pro of course, is that these are 284 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: inexpensive and they don't require high temperature, fuel consuming ovens 285 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: to bake them as you have with with baked bricks. 286 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: You can make a ton of them. You can use 287 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: them to build battlements, buildings, et cetera in pretty short order. 288 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: So again they're they're cheap, they're fast building material to 289 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 3: make them as abundant and they get the job done right. 290 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: And I don't want to imply that, you know, there's 291 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: just a crude mode of construction, Like obviously there's an 292 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: art and a craftsmanship to making them, And I think 293 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: that's key here too, Like the local people knew how 294 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: to make them. There was a tradition of making them, 295 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: and that also allowed them to bust them out in 296 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: massive quantities in a short amount of time. 297 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I want to be clear by saying like 298 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: that they're inexpensive, I mean that they're you know, they're 299 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 3: inexpensive relative to like quarrying or having to fire the 300 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 3: bricks in an oven. But that doesn't mean that they're 301 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: like junk. I mean this is this is building material 302 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: that serves its purpose and it is efficient, it's smart. 303 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: Now there are cons here. Of course, these are arid environments, 304 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that it doesn't rain. It doesn't 305 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: mean that there aren't floods, periodic flooding and so forth. 306 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, they're easily washed away or damage during storms. 307 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: Plus this was impressive. As Higgins points out, the bricks 308 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: at the base of walls of structures draw up and 309 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: absorb water by capillary action. The water evaporates, but quote, 310 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: salts are concentrated and finally crystallized between the mineral grains, 311 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: causing the mud to flake, weakening the base of the walls. 312 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: And he also has this was especially true would have 313 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: been true in Babylon due to the rather brackish ground water. 314 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, so higher salt content in that water, more 315 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: more crystals getting into the bricks. Yeah. 316 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: So, mud brick buildings, while essential for the time period, 317 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: also required a lot of upkeep, and they would eventually fail. 318 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: Mud brick buildings would eventually crumble and fall apart, and 319 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: any resulting bricks would not be reused, nor would the mud. 320 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: Like you couldn't just like you know, essentially wet it 321 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: all down and form new mud bricks out of that mud, 322 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: out of that soil. And it's thought that a lot 323 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: of this had to do with the fact that at 324 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: this point it's all it's old straw mixed in there, 325 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: and it's not going to hold things together as well 326 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: as fresh straw. So you would get fresh mud from 327 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: the river, you would add fresh straw to that, and 328 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: you would just build new new bricks the old side 329 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: the crumbled bricks, et cetera. You would just flatten that 330 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: down as much as possible, and that would service the 331 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: foundation for the new structure. And it's interesting that resulting 332 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: mound of old mud bricks is what we call it. 333 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: Tell this is a rising heap where these would these 334 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: buildings would crumble, they'd have to be flattened. You'd build 335 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: a new one that eventually would crumble and be flattened. Higgins' 336 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: rights that over the millennia, such tells actually lifted the 337 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: base levels of cities up above the plane, making them 338 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: more defendable, making them more desirable as places to live 339 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: and to work and to defend yourself. And therefore the 340 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: pattern would just continue. 341 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so you can see in the locations or 342 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: ruins of some ancient settlements, especially in the ancient Near East, 343 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: that maybe even no buildings remained, but there's just a 344 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: big mound built up off the ground. Yeah. 345 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: So that's that's that's incredible. So anyway, the problems of 346 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: mud bricks were known, even though they were traditional, even 347 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: though they were inexpensive. Higgins points out that not only 348 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: is Babylon home to some of the early is known 349 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: recorded legal systems, but also some of those laws that 350 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: were recorded concerned building collapses. It was written that if 351 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: a building's collapse caused the death of the homeowner, then 352 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: the builder would be put to death. 353 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that is a strict building code. 354 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, it makes sense you're building, I mean, 355 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: not to say the eye for an eye nature of it. 356 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: You know, it makes it makes sense so much. But 357 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: just the idea that like, buildings are important and there 358 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: has to be some sort of you know, some sort 359 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: of law in place to make sure things are built 360 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: to code. 361 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe not a death penalty, but builders should be 362 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: kept to a high standard. Yeah. 363 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so you know, again, it was known that 364 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: there could be problems with mud bricks, and it was 365 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: discovered early on that you could transform mud bricks of 366 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: a sort into something harder and less susceptible to erosion. 367 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: Higgins writes, quote, heat changes water bearing clay minerals with 368 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: their slippery playing card structure, into larger, interlocking crystals of 369 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: minerals containing less water, which makes a stronger material than 370 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: is water resistant. He ultimately compares this transformation to kind 371 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: of a sped up and you know, less sophisticated process 372 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: of metamorphism that in like in the ground and over 373 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: geologic time, produces things like marble. And so he writes 374 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: that many of the great Babylonian structures of the day 375 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: would have been made of baked bricks, and these would 376 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: ultimately last so long that they would be reused long 377 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: after the final fall of Babylon to build such cities 378 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: as Baghdad. And we see this in other parts of 379 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: the world as well, like the bricks stand the test 380 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: of time, and then the bricks are scavenged in order 381 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: to build the new cities of an emerging new world. 382 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: But these would have been fire bricks, bricks, yes. 383 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: These would been the fired Yeah, you're not doing this 384 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: with mud bricks at all, But baked bricks are just 385 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: that much more durable. And you know, and it's interesting. 386 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I was been talking about this with my wife and 387 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: she pointed out that, you know, a lot of the 388 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: bricks we see on houses today, like they're they're purely ornamental. 389 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: They're real baked bricks, but they're not like doing much 390 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: or anything in the way of structural support for the house. 391 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: Your house isn't built out of bricks. It's built out 392 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: of wood framing and all the other stuff. But the 393 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: bricks are there just for ornamental purposes, well, depending on 394 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: the house. But yeah, in a lot of modern uses. 395 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 396 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: Now, Higgins points out that limestone was also used in 397 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: special instances, but this would have been expensive to import 398 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: in Babylon, unlike with with Nineveh. The walls of Babylon, however, 399 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: were also sometimes listed as an ancient wonder in and 400 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: of themselves. They were made of mud bricks, and the 401 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: gates faced with with with baked bricks that were glazed 402 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: with a glass like blue glaze that was then detailed 403 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: with yellow flora and fauna things like lions and all. 404 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: So so these walls would have begun depended mostly on 405 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: baked bricks for their bulk and their protective qualities, but 406 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: then you also had glazed baked bricks that made them 407 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: beautiful to behold and spoke of the you know, the 408 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: glory of the city and its ruler. So Higgins goes 409 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: into a lot more detail in the book about all 410 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: of this, and especially gets into the geology of the region. 411 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: But I think just what we've we've drawn out here already, 412 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: it provides a nice glance at the importance of mud 413 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: bricks in the ancient world, their pros and cons, and 414 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: also how they serve as a necessary predecessor to baked 415 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: brick technology that would basically serve as the next step 416 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: in humanity's ability to take essentially mud and remake it 417 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: as solid earth for our own purposes. And how fitting 418 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: too that this occurred in the shadows of the Ziggurats, 419 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: holy mountains constructed by human ingenuity. 420 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 3: Now from here I wanted to talk about one specific 421 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 3: example of amazing mud based construction practices that still exists 422 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 3: in the world today, and that is the example of 423 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 3: the mud built skyscrapers of the city of Shibomb. So 424 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 3: I was reading about this in a number of sources. 425 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 3: One of the main ones out site is an entry 426 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 3: in the Encyclopedia of Architectural and Engineering Feats edited by 427 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 3: Donald Longmead and Christine Garneault, published in two thousand and one. 428 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 3: So the city of Shibam is located in modern day Yemen. 429 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: It is situated on top of a rock spur at 430 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: the southern tip of the rub Al Khali Desert of 431 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 3: the Arabian Peninsula and the Rublkali. That name means empty quarter. 432 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 3: This is an area of approximately one thousand by five 433 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 3: hundred kilometers covered in sand dunes, with relatively little human 434 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 3: habitation and plant and animal life compared to other areas. 435 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: It is a hyper arid desert of wind swept dunes 436 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 3: of sand. So this is near the southern end of 437 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 3: that area, sort of where it's transitioning into other sort 438 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: of ecoregions. Many of the buildings that still stand in 439 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 3: the city of Shabam today date back to the sixteenth century, 440 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: though the settlement itself is older. Several sources I was 441 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: looking at said it went back to the third century CE. 442 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 3: The population of the city in the modern era is 443 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: roughly seven thousand, and most of these people live in 444 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 3: these mud brick high rise houses. There are more than 445 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 3: five hundred of these structures inside the city walls. I've 446 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: seen vastly conflicting estimates on the height of the tallest ones. 447 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 3: The Encyclopedia entry I just cited says that some of 448 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 3: them are up to twelve stories tall. Other sources say 449 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: the tallest are more like seven stories. I don't know 450 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 3: what accounts for that difference, but I bet it depends 451 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 3: on how you're counting the stories. Maybe it's height versus 452 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 3: the actual number of occupied floors, because I think within 453 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 3: those buildings the floors are actually quite tall, like the 454 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 3: ceilings are high, and there will be multiple levels of 455 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 3: windows within a single floor of the building. 456 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: That would make sense too, based on some of the 457 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: like the design parameters that are that are common with 458 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: with with with this sort of climate and the sort 459 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 1: of construction material like we referenced earlier. 460 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 3: Right, because you want a lot of windows situated high 461 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 3: up so that as hot air rises, it can flow 462 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 3: out through those windows. So you get high ceilings, windows 463 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 3: up near the ceiling above where the people are walking around. 464 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: Now, I think people should if it's safe to do so, 465 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, not if you're driving the car, obviously, but 466 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: you should look up images of this because when we 467 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: say mud Rick high rises, or you hear a description 468 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: like the Manhattan of the desert, which I've seen, you 469 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: might you might not fully believe it, but because it 470 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: is very almost unreal to behold. But yes, it does 471 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: look essentially like parts of Manhattan in terms of the 472 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: scope of the buildings and the height of the buildings, 473 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: and the modernity of the buildings, you know, and their 474 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: sort of basic shape and design. This does not look 475 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: like a like like some sort of you know, archaic city. 476 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: It looks at once modern and yet you can tell 477 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: there's something about the building materials that is different. So 478 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: it is this is a remarkable city that is rising 479 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: up out of the desert here. 480 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: Some sources have identified these as the world's oldest skyscrapers. 481 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 3: I don't know how you make the cut for skyscraper, 482 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 3: but they are very old buildings and very tall for 483 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 3: their construction materials, so they are made of mud bricks. 484 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: And yeah, you mentioned the sort of nickname used in 485 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: some Western media, the Manhattan of the desert. As far 486 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 3: as I know, the city of Shibam was first called 487 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 3: that in the nineteen thirties. I think that it goes 488 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 3: back to the British explorer Freia Stark who called it that. 489 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 3: And speaking of how the city was described in Western 490 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: media in the nineteen thirties, I found an article in 491 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 3: an old issue of Popular Mechanics from nineteen thirty six 492 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 3: called mud Skyscrapers of Desert built long before the log cabin. 493 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 3: So it was just a little paragraph, but I wanted 494 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 3: to read this because I thought it was funny. So 495 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 3: it First the caption on the photo says centuries old 496 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 3: city of Shabomb in southern Arabia is a cluster of 497 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 3: sun hardened mud skyscrapers that have withstood tests of time 498 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 3: and weather, and then the body text says mud skyscrapers 499 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: that were hundreds of years old when log cabins began 500 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: to dot the American wilderness still stand in the ancient 501 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 3: city of Shabomb in southern Arabia, the modern steel skyscraper 502 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 3: is only fifty years old. Shabomb was a thriving city 503 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 3: of tall buildings in the time of the Queen of Sheba, 504 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 3: and it still is a busy desert metropolis today, so 505 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 3: constructed as to withstand the raids of hostile Arab tribesmen, 506 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: with the windows high above the ground. The Shabamb skyscrapers 507 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 3: were of mud mixed with straw and maize, dried and 508 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 3: hardened by the desert sun. And then directly under that 509 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 3: there's another headline that says insects killed by vaporizer heated electrically. 510 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: But so, as Rob said, if you're able to look 511 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: up images of the city of Shabam, you should because 512 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 3: it's amazing looking. But if you can't, one thing you 513 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: should understand is that the city itself has a notably 514 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 3: small and tidy horizontal footprint. It is about half a 515 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: square kilometer stretching up instead of out, and when it 516 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 3: was recognized by UNESCO's World Heritage List in the nineteen eighties. 517 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 3: I think it was nineteen eighty two. It was described 518 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: as quote one of the oldest and best examples of 519 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 3: urban planning based on the principle of vertical constructions. Now, Rob, 520 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 3: I'm about to divulge something of great relevance to you personally. 521 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: I know you love a skybridge. Well, a lot of 522 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 3: the mud built high rises in Shibam are linked by 523 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 3: upper floor floating corridors skybridges made out of mud. So 524 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: I attached some photos here for you to look at. 525 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: It looks, at least at least some of the photos 526 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 3: I could find, it looks like the skybridges are not 527 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 3: covered on top. I don't know if they're all like 528 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 3: that or if it's just some of them, but in 529 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 3: some of these photos it's like a walkway connecting the 530 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 3: upper floors of these buildings that has a bottom, of course, 531 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: and then it has walls rising up on the sides, 532 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 3: but not a roof. 533 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: Wow, this is amazing. Yes, I had no idea, but 534 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: here they are. Yeah, the mud brick skybridges, I'll take it. 535 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: So from what I've read, the design of the city 536 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: with its mud walls all around it. Also, as I said, 537 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: it has walls surrounding the city that are also made 538 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 3: of mud brick. The design of the city, with the walls, 539 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 3: the high rises and the sky bridges, is in large 540 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 3: part defensive in nature. The city was built to defend 541 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: itself against marauders. Now why, like, what would make this 542 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 3: city in particular a target for such attacks. According to 543 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 3: some sources, it may have a lot to do with 544 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 3: frankincense and the Frankensense trade. Frankinson's traders used to have 545 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: routes that crossed the Rubl Khali desert, and Shibam was 546 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 3: a hub along one of those caravan routes. So there 547 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: was a lot of frankensense trade and as a result, 548 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 3: a decent amount of wealth associated with that. Now, Rob, 549 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, mud based buildings are great and that 550 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 3: they have many wonderful properties, but they do need frequent upkeep. 551 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: The walls have to be replastered on an ongoing basis 552 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 3: to counteract erosion damage from wind and rain, and they 553 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 3: also have to be built with the limitations of their 554 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 3: construction materials in mind. So the mudd high rises here, 555 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 3: they tend to have thicker walls near the bottom that 556 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 3: become thinner as the stories go up. So the buildings 557 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 3: kind of taper inward as they go up higher, and 558 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: this is to reduce the weight load from higher floors 559 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: pressing down on the bricks below, because again the walls 560 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: are partially load bearing, though there are also some internal 561 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 3: posts like timber posts that help bear the weight of 562 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 3: the building as well. I was kind of surprised to 563 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 3: learn that many of the houses here are actually occupied 564 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 3: only by a single family. So often the family will 565 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,719 Speaker 3: live on the upper floors of the building, and then 566 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 3: the lower floors are places that are traditionally used for 567 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 3: storage of food, like grain storage and for livestock. 568 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: That's fascinating, and I guess it would make sense too 569 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: that you'd want to live on those upper floors because 570 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: you would get more ventilation and so forth. 571 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 3: Now, Shabam lies in a valley at the confluence of 572 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 3: several waddies. A wady is a ravine or river channel 573 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: in the desert that is dry most of the time, 574 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: but then floods with water during the rainy season. And 575 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: as often happens in desert environments, it can be very 576 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: dry and then suddenly extremely wet when the rain comes. 577 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 3: You know, so the flood comes in, and that can 578 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 3: be very dangerous to human settlements, especially settlements made out 579 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 3: of mud brick. Because of the placement at the convergence 580 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 3: of these watties, Schabam is vulnerable to flooding and has 581 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: suffered catastrophic flooding damage at various points in history, such 582 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 3: as in fifteen thirty two. That's when a lot of 583 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 3: the city had to be rebuilt. And why that's you know, 584 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 3: as far back as most of the skyscrapers there today date. Now, 585 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 3: why would you build high rises out of mud here 586 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 3: instead of just more you know, regular low lane dwellings. 587 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: Well. 588 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 3: The entry in the Encyclopedia of Architectural and Engineering Feats 589 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: identifies several reasons for the vertical expansion. One is because 590 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 3: of the area's proneness to flooding. The city is situated up, 591 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 3: as I said, on kind of a rockspur so it's 592 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 3: raised up above the floor of the valley, but not 593 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 3: raised up enough to totally avoid flood damage, and floods 594 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 3: can threaten it. So one is protection from flooding. Another 595 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 3: is preservation of horizontal acreage around the city for agriculture, 596 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 3: because there are date palm groves all around, and so 597 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: expanding the footprint of the city would essentially cut into 598 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 3: the farmland around it. 599 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: This detail makes for some really beautiful photos though, because 600 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: you see those brilliant green date palms all around the 601 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: outside walls of the city. 602 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 3: Yes, another reason is the desire to gather families in 603 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 3: a single building. I guess this means like even large families. 604 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: And then finally to squeeze more of the city inside 605 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 3: the protective perimeter wall, which again was to defend against 606 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 3: raiders who might want to attack the city for its 607 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 3: wealth associated with the Frankinson's trade. Now we've already covered 608 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: how mud bricks are made, but how are these skyscrapers 609 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 3: in particular put together. Well, they are made out of 610 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 3: mud bricks as far as I can tell based on 611 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 3: the normal method. So these would be mud reinforced with 612 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 3: straw baked in the sun, which is stuccoed over on 613 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 3: the outside of the buildings with a plaster made out 614 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 3: of clay and chopped straw. And then this is all 615 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 3: placed upon a stone foundation. As I said, the mud 616 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 3: brick walls tend to taper inward and become thinner as 617 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: they go up, because again the walls are partially load bearing. 618 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 3: The buildings reach heights of forty meters or one hundred 619 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 3: and thirty feet, and the walls of the ground floor 620 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 3: are generally between one point three and two meters thick, 621 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 3: so that's like four to six feet thick. There's a 622 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 3: lot of it just seems to me a lot of 623 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 3: energy efficiency in mind in the construction of the city 624 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 3: because they have all these properties. But also like they 625 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 3: have the skybridge bridges I mentioned, and that is to 626 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 3: allow neighbors to visit one another without having to go 627 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 3: up and down the stairs, you know, go up and down, 628 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 3: wasting energy going that way. But then also the upper 629 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 3: floors have this external white stucco to help reflect solar 630 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 3: radiation and help keep them cool. 631 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: I love I love this detail about the skybridge because this, 632 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: like this lines up with the basic rationale for skybridges 633 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: in the age of skyscrapers, and this sort of you know, 634 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: forward thinking futuristic idea that like, well, life is going 635 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: to be up there now and we need to move 636 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: around up there building to building, and this is an 637 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: example of it not really being a thoroughly futuristic idea 638 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: at all, Like it's it's ultimately a much older, even 639 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: ancient idea at least in places where you had tall 640 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: buildings like this. 641 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 3: Or maybe you could say been part of a smart, 642 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 3: progressive technological framework for ages. 643 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so, because I imagine imagine like coming 644 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: to this city centuries ago, you know, and just how 645 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: modern and advanced it would be. Like this was like 646 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: the blade Runner city of the day. 647 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 3: Now. A lot of the city's architecture centers around helping 648 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 3: to deal with extreme heat. So one advantage of having 649 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 3: tall buildings close together is that it really helps to 650 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 3: provide shade within the city. Buildings also have a lot 651 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 3: of windows to aid in ventilation, especially near the top, 652 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 3: letting hot air out. But they also, like the doors 653 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 3: in these buildings, many of them are carved wooden doors 654 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 3: that will have like these beautiful geometric patterns carved into them, 655 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 3: but they will have openings in the wood of the 656 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 3: doors again to allow ventilation, you know, natural airflow through. 657 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 3: And also in the city, I was watching one video 658 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 3: documentary about it that showed the city still having some 659 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 3: very old old school wooden locks, so like locks on 660 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 3: doors that you would open by having a wooden paddle 661 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 3: that has a particular arrangement of pegs poking up off 662 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 3: of it. So you can reach the wooden paddle into 663 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 3: the lock hole and you press it up and if 664 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 3: it has the right arrangement of pegs, it lifts the 665 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 3: what do they call it, the lifts the little tumblers, 666 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 3: I guess, and then the lock opens. Some buildings in 667 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 3: the city also have wooden mashrabias, which are if you 668 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 3: don't know what that is, sort of like a wooden 669 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 3: enclosed but ventilated deck area, sort of, I don't know 670 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 3: the correct way to describe it. Look it up, Look 671 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 3: up pictures of them. They are these beautiful external features 672 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 3: that you see on a lot of buildings throughout the 673 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 3: Islamic world. 674 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: You know, coming back to what you said earlier about 675 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: the setbacks and the design the idea that you know, 676 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: they taper inward and there's kind of a terracing as 677 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: they go up. And of course this applies to more 678 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: than just mud brick buildings, but you know, thicker at 679 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: the bottom, less mass towards the top. You know. This 680 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: this makes me think of setbacks in like a modern 681 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: city environment like New York City, where even when you 682 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: get to the point where you don't need the setbacks 683 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: from a structural standpoint, setbacks end up being desired, you know, 684 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: well for I guess a couple of reasons. One just esthetically, 685 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: but also you put these setback laws in place because 686 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: you don't want to create the just like depths of 687 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: shadow where the sun never shines. You know, you want 688 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: there to be sort of more open sky in these 689 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: these ravines between the skyscrapers. And yet also you know 690 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: you touched on with with this city that you know, 691 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: to a certain extent, those wells of shadow are also 692 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: desired because you want to create to create some additional 693 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: escape from the overbearing power of the sun. 694 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So I guess again there are trade 695 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 3: off there. As you know, building, building materials and architecture 696 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 3: really is a story of trade offs, isn't it. Yeah. 697 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's a banal observation, I just 698 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 3: it just occurred to me. 699 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: Well, I think the banal becomes the spectacular when you 700 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: start looking at examples like this that turn our understanding 701 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: of skyscrapers and modern urban environments on their head by 702 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: placing them in in a much older setting, in a 703 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: different environment than we're used to contending with. So it's, yeah, 704 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: such a fascinating model to look at. Now. 705 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 3: One last thing is I was reading about some threats 706 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 3: to this beautiful architectural heritage recently due to weather and 707 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 3: especially due to conflict in Yemen, leading to difficulty in 708 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 3: performing the upkeep necessary to keep these buildings standing. And 709 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 3: all that, there was apparently a tropical cyclone in two 710 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 3: thousand and eight that caused a lot of flooding and 711 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 3: damage to buildings in Shabam. And also I think there 712 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 3: are some other settlements in the same region that have 713 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,760 Speaker 3: some similar construction and architecture in them that are also 714 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 3: under threat due to flooding and weather and just lack 715 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 3: of ability to perform the necessary upkeep. So I know 716 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 3: there are some restoration and maintenance projects that are underway. 717 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 3: I think UNESCO might be involved in something going on there. 718 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 3: But it would be a shame to see this beautiful 719 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 3: and ingenious architectural tradition, which is in a way it's 720 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 3: a tradition that's ongoing because of the upkeep you always 721 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 3: have to do to keep these buildings alive to see 722 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 3: that go away. 723 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, now we also want to stress though that 724 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: of course this is just one of the phenomenal examples 725 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: of mud brick based architecture you can find throughout the world. 726 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: Like I said earlier, structures made out of mud brick 727 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: are still common throughout North Africa. On North Africa, but 728 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: this one really kind of stood out to us as 729 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: something worth highlighting and just showing what is and was 730 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: possible with mud brick. So, anyway you have a particular favorite, 731 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,439 Speaker 1: or if you've visited a city or an archaeological site 732 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: that features impressive mud brick construction, right in, let us know. 733 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you and we can talk 734 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: about it in a future listener mail episode. Now, as 735 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: for Mud as a whole, our multi part look at Mud, 736 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: I think we're going to go at least one more 737 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: episode here. We're going to come back a little bit 738 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,479 Speaker 1: too mud and warfare. We're going to talk about mud 739 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: volcanoes and who knows what else. There may be another 740 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: mud angle that we don't even know about yet because 741 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: it is yet to emerge through our research, So make 742 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: sure you tune in for that on Tuesday. Imagine a 743 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: reminder that our core episodes of Stuff to Blil Your 744 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: Mind published on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the Stuff to 745 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: Blil your Mind podcast feed we have let's see listener mails. 746 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: On Mondays, we have short form artifactor Monster Fact on Wednesdays, 747 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: and on Fridays, we set aside most serious concerns to 748 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: just talk about a strange movie on Weird House Cinema. 749 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If 750 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with 751 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic 752 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can 753 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 754 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 3: dot com. 755 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 756 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 757 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.