Speaker 1: Wasn't another one of her boyfriends a cop. That's very dregs,
Speaker 1: that's very dress. She's she any non not my name, yo,
Speaker 1: yo yo? What is your childhood brother? Yo? Going down
Speaker 1: the floor like j So. Welcome to Like a Virgin,
Speaker 1: the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 1: I'm Rose dam you and I'm Fran Toronto and we
Speaker 1: just got off of a very exciting Google meeting talking
Speaker 1: about our live show happening in Brooklyn this weekend. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I am so stoked. We're pulling this together
Speaker 1: very last minute, and that is going to be the vibe.
Speaker 1: It's going to be the essence um Peyton Dicks, the
Speaker 1: essence of beauty. Payton Dix, famed bisexual, has famously never
Speaker 1: seen a single episode of Sex in the City or
Speaker 1: but she has seen the entirety of ants like that
Speaker 1: which is fucked us, which is so fucked up. We
Speaker 1: will be discussing. But anyways, this weekend, Saturday, only a
Speaker 1: one night event, we will be live viewing the bisexual
Speaker 1: episode of Sex and the City, which is one of
Speaker 1: some would say the most problematic episode of of Sex
Speaker 1: in the City. Not me, I would definitely put it
Speaker 1: in the top three top four most problematic episodes. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll debate, we'll debate. Well, we'll debate if you're in
Speaker 1: New York City. If you're in New York City, you
Speaker 1: will have to be there to see how that debate goes.
Speaker 1: Um And there are tickets now live on both of
Speaker 1: our instagrams on the Like a Virgin burner account at
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin for twenty sixty nine. They are cheaper
Speaker 1: if you buy the minut advance versus at the door,
Speaker 1: so look at them now. We also will have some
Speaker 1: merch at the show to buy, so women to be shopping. Bradshaw.
Speaker 1: And if you are a diva who likes to sit,
Speaker 1: please come early. Okay, seating there will be limited, limited seating.
Speaker 1: And it's small venue. It's a very cozy, intimate venue.
Speaker 1: That's how we like it. We like intimate venues the
Speaker 1: way Madonna what wait, what tour did she go to
Speaker 1: where she had the intimate, the intimate the Madam concerts? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that her Madam. It will it will be this era,
Speaker 1: yeah with the show. That's yeah, this is our this
Speaker 1: is our weekends with adele Um. But it's only one weekend.
Speaker 1: Come this Saturday. It's gonna be so much fun. And also,
Speaker 1: you know, while we're doing some housekeeping, make sure that
Speaker 1: you subscribe to our patreon for weekly exclusive bonus episodes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, without all out of the way, how the
Speaker 1: hell are you fran so good? Rose? Um? I you know,
Speaker 1: pulled myself out of a nap so that I could
Speaker 1: go see a screening of Scream six at the AMC
Speaker 1: Village and uh it was. It was good. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw it last week as well, so we um and
Speaker 1: we I didn't I thought you weren't going to see it.
Speaker 1: I know our periods are sinked. Well, I told you
Speaker 1: that I didn't want to. I only would do it
Speaker 1: if I could put it on my AMCs stubbs List
Speaker 1: rewards member whatever the fuck it's called, um because I
Speaker 1: actually haven't used my membership in like a month and
Speaker 1: a half and so, you know, just trying to be
Speaker 1: cost effective. But um, I I still got to sit
Speaker 1: in my recliner chairs. I was very happy with my
Speaker 1: viewing experience. What did you think of the beginning? The
Speaker 1: first five minutes I think were a bit of a doozy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really liked the the cold open um. It was
Speaker 1: a sort of a departure for a screen movie, and
Speaker 1: that not just one person was killed. There was not
Speaker 1: not really a fake out. It was more of like
Speaker 1: a like a narrative moment like this professor gets killed
Speaker 1: and then the killers get killed. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was interesting. And you know, it's trying to do like
Speaker 1: what Scream does best, which is this like meta commentary
Speaker 1: on horror, and as the Scream movies have progressed, they
Speaker 1: have more become a meta commentary on Scream movies than
Speaker 1: on horror in general, unfortunately. I mean overall, I really
Speaker 1: liked the movie up until the killer reveal, and then
Speaker 1: I thought it was very dumb. Okay, so I mean
Speaker 1: spoiler alerts vision, why didn't you like the killer reveal
Speaker 1: because I felt it was anticlimactic. Yeah, it was sort
Speaker 1: of a mix of things Scream has done before, where
Speaker 1: it's you know, a family member of a past killer
Speaker 1: or someone who's really obsessed with the whole Scream ghost
Speaker 1: Faces narrative, and it did both, and I thought the
Speaker 1: reveal was one that was like far too easy to predict,
Speaker 1: like obviously as soon as that as um Dylan McDermott show,
Speaker 1: where is that Dermott moroney, I can never, I can never.
Speaker 1: It's it's Dermott moment, it's the other one. Okay. As
Speaker 1: soon as he showed up, I was like, okay, he's
Speaker 1: the killer. Yeah. And and then obviously also like the
Speaker 1: one odd guy out in their group who's like, of course,
Speaker 1: but I bet you all think I'm the Killer's like okay,
Speaker 1: well obviously he's the killer too, And they just did that.
Speaker 1: They just did that as well. And the yeah, where
Speaker 1: it was like the obvious one was the one. It
Speaker 1: was just so unsatisfying. And I also felt like their
Speaker 1: justification for why they were the killers was super lame.
Speaker 1: She was reaching your honor. Yeah. Also like why did
Speaker 1: it take place in New York when it was entirely
Speaker 1: shot in Montreal? It looked like it was shot in Montreal.
Speaker 1: And also I mean, I guess they were there because
Speaker 1: Jennet Ortega was going to NYU or whatever. But here's what, Okay,
Speaker 1: I lead with the negatives because had a ball and
Speaker 1: I enjoyed this scream more too. I did. I did too.
Speaker 1: I thought this scream was so much better than the
Speaker 1: last one and um and so big improvement they gave
Speaker 1: that main girly some acting lessons because she was rotted
Speaker 1: in the last Yeah, Melissa Guero definitely is like giving
Speaker 1: final doll um. And I actually thought they were. I
Speaker 1: thought for a second that they really were going to
Speaker 1: kill her because they had alluded to it, and because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, if they made Jenna Ortega the
Speaker 1: true protagonist of this franchise, that actually would be such
Speaker 1: a serve. I'm not gonna lie, but well, I think
Speaker 1: that's what's going to happen because and I think that
Speaker 1: in the next movie, Melissa of this movie is going
Speaker 1: to become the killer. Like I think she's snapped. She's
Speaker 1: she's gonna be the Scream. She's gonna be the Scream.
Speaker 1: She's gonna be screams screaming to scream. Yeah, so as
Speaker 1: she as you know, the killer is famously called Scream, Scream,
Speaker 1: Scream yeah. Um. So Anyways, the thing for me is like,
Speaker 1: there should have been more hijinks with Scream, Like I
Speaker 1: wanted more. I wanted Scream in New York. I wanted
Speaker 1: Scream getting a hot dog. I wanted to know. I
Speaker 1: wanted Scream getting to like, yeah, going to see a
Speaker 1: Hamilton matinee. Scream in Central Park. Yes, well that crying
Speaker 1: on the subway. That's the thing is, none of that
Speaker 1: happened because it wasn't actually shot in New York and
Speaker 1: the most and I thought that some of my favorite
Speaker 1: parts of the film were the ones were it tried
Speaker 1: to approximate being in New York. Like the scene on
Speaker 1: the subway was genuinely so good and thrilling. Um. The
Speaker 1: scene in the bodega was also really amazing. And I
Speaker 1: don't understand why, if you're gonna do it in New York,
Speaker 1: just fucking shoot it in New York. Yeah. I didn't
Speaker 1: get that either, because yeah, but I am. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love those scenes specific those are definitely two of
Speaker 1: my favorite scenes as well. I thought that in those
Speaker 1: scenes and throughout the movie, the relationship built on the
Speaker 1: two sisters was so much stronger. So towards the end
Speaker 1: when they were like fending off you know, the screams,
Speaker 1: I was just like, I was, just like work Diva's
Speaker 1: like they're gonna be like, you know, a ragtag duo
Speaker 1: of like you know, murdery girls, and like I was,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like I want that form of the franchise.
Speaker 1: Kirby's return was pretty gaggy and funny. I love that
Speaker 1: she died like three times, but I hate that she's
Speaker 1: a cop because I love I love Herbie, and she
Speaker 1: is one of the high points of Scream four, which
Speaker 1: I do think is one of the better films having
Speaker 1: rewatched it recently. But it just sucks they made her
Speaker 1: a cop. Yeah, and also it sucks that they put
Speaker 1: her in that wig because she they were like, I'm thirty,
Speaker 1: and I was like, honey, with that wig, you look
Speaker 1: like you're thirty. Yeah, Mason, Mason Gooding Man that you are.
Speaker 1: Oh god god. I mean, first of all, it's funny
Speaker 1: that he's playing a college freshman when he's about, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty two. Yeah, he looks like a college freshman. And
Speaker 1: he also looks like a Chad, which I love he does.
Speaker 1: He's so hot it's insane. It makes no Okay. That's
Speaker 1: another complaint of mine is that I think that the
Speaker 1: tension m M, no, what am I trying to say?
Speaker 1: I think that I would have loved more of the
Speaker 1: b plot, Like I felt like the romance between him
Speaker 1: and Jenna Ortega like could have had some like little
Speaker 1: like you know, college hijinks, twisty something like I wish
Speaker 1: I had seen more of Jenna Ortega's life and its
Speaker 1: relation and the stakes, like in you know, his survival,
Speaker 1: Mason Goodding Survival. I would have liked that, specifically to
Speaker 1: the end of making us believe that he could be
Speaker 1: the killer. Yeah, that's what I wanted more of, was
Speaker 1: more breadcrumbs of faking us out, because that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, the reveal of who Scream was was not
Speaker 1: only disappointing because it was lame, but because there wasn't
Speaker 1: a ton of mystery. I wasn't. I didn't spend the
Speaker 1: movie trying to guess who Scream was, and I should
Speaker 1: have been. There should have been people being sus and
Speaker 1: they really weren't. Although I guess like the main Girlie's
Speaker 1: boyfriend was supposed to be the biggest fake out just
Speaker 1: because he's like some random dude, but even that wasn't
Speaker 1: like very compelling, and there was no moment where it
Speaker 1: was sort of like a gotcha that he had like
Speaker 1: a knife in his bag or whatever, although he was
Speaker 1: part of one of the other most thrilling scenes where
Speaker 1: they're locked in the apartment with Scream and have to
Speaker 1: walk across the ladder on the air shot. That was good,
Speaker 1: so good. That was great. The action in this movie
Speaker 1: was really fun. It's just, you know, not very good killers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not very good killers. And um, I think that
Speaker 1: the reveal. The problem with the reveal is that it
Speaker 1: was just trying too hard to tie us back into
Speaker 1: stories that I personally had already forgot about and didn't
Speaker 1: care about anymore. Stories are so powerful. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you. Stories are really powerful matter not. Everyone should
Speaker 1: have survived, like the whole four four. That's the point
Speaker 1: of screen movies is that the characters that you like die.
Speaker 1: I like, I love Gail. Gail should have died, like
Speaker 1: Mason Gooding's hot as he is should have died. Gail
Speaker 1: Weather No, wait, Gail Weathers survived. Yeah, at the end,
Speaker 1: they had the moment where they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Gail's at the hospital, Gail and Kirby are fine. That
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. I thought she was I thought
Speaker 1: she was dead. I totally missed that she was still alive.
Speaker 1: Stobbed so many times, so many times. And also, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry to do this, but like, why
Speaker 1: is there not but a lick of I makeup on
Speaker 1: Courtney Cox. She looks dead. I thought she looked I
Speaker 1: thought she looked fab but she was still iconic. Of
Speaker 1: course she she was and rip to her hot boyfriend
Speaker 1: who had no lines and just died. Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: was so bizarre. Again, this is what I'm saying about
Speaker 1: the b plots is like I almost wanted. Obviously, when
Speaker 1: you have a big ensemble, you can't like do a
Speaker 1: ton with like character development. But like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: there there could have been so many more interesting ways
Speaker 1: for the killer reveal to go down if we had
Speaker 1: more stakes in like what the characters were doing. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't. You know, the action was amazing though, So yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I would plain. I guess I
Speaker 1: was hoping that the killer reveal would have more to
Speaker 1: do with the whole idea of the main girl whatever
Speaker 1: her name is in the movie, Um, like the conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory that she was the actual killer. Like I know
Speaker 1: that the killers were the ones who planted that, but
Speaker 1: I think that could have been a better part of
Speaker 1: the sort of meta commentary that it was doing, like
Speaker 1: about victimhood and you know, they just like didn't really
Speaker 1: chase that that rabbit. So but yeah, still very enjoyable
Speaker 1: moviegoing experience. I had a lot of fun watching it,
Speaker 1: and I will be seated for every scream that's it's
Speaker 1: I just will. Okay, let's let's move on from from Scream,
Speaker 1: both the movie and the titular killer. Yeah. Two, we're
Speaker 1: going from New York to Ocean Boulevard right now. Yes
Speaker 1: to Lana del Rey, who also is the topic of
Speaker 1: I mean she is the overarching topic of this whole
Speaker 1: episode because after this we'll have a conversation about her
Speaker 1: with Sean Fay, noted author and um Lana del Rey historian.
Speaker 1: So did you know that there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard?
Speaker 1: Was released on Friday? And what do we think? Fran
Speaker 1: Um love it, Love love love it. I am like
Speaker 1: feeling like, you know, it's bringing us back to Norman Rockwell, Launa.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's also going to like SoundCloud Laana.
Speaker 1: It reminds me like something like Peppers. I think reminds
Speaker 1: me a lot of her SoundCloud song with Asap Rocky Riding.
Speaker 1: That's like so like very Lizzy Grant. Yes, it's Lizzy Grant.
Speaker 1: It's like, I you know, trap beat from like garage band,
Speaker 1: like you know iOS six, You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it was it's like fun and funny and dirty,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, she really is such a producer,
Speaker 1: and I think that's something like I think I loved
Speaker 1: and respected her more as a songwriter and asked a
Speaker 1: producer on this album than I had in previous albums.
Speaker 1: What about You. Yeah, the songwriting on this is really beautiful,
Speaker 1: and I really feel myself drawn to some of the
Speaker 1: tracks that almost are the ones that I feel like
Speaker 1: she'll never perform live, Like something like something like Fingertips,
Speaker 1: which like is almost more of just a poem set
Speaker 1: to music, and like something that I like imagine is
Speaker 1: she like just recorded to like have it live as
Speaker 1: a song and it's not necessarily something she'll ever perform live.
Speaker 1: You know, I agree. I think in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: this is a return to a sound that she maybe
Speaker 1: didn't do on Blue Banisters or or chem Trails, Like
Speaker 1: there is a little bit more of that like hip
Speaker 1: hop influence on some of the songs, but I feel
Speaker 1: like what she's writing about has evolved a lot. Like
Speaker 1: there's so much reckoning with mortality on this record, like
Speaker 1: like the death that she's experienced in her family, like
Speaker 1: the the knowledge of the mortality of the people she loves,
Speaker 1: and also like the idea of I think she's thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about the legacy she's going to leave behind.
Speaker 1: Um and what you know, imprint her music has on
Speaker 1: the world, which is really beautiful. And I mean some
Speaker 1: of the imagery on this album, like um in Kintsugie
Speaker 1: when she's talking about you know, like the cracks letting
Speaker 1: the light come in is really lovely and yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I just think it's really beautiful. It sounds very Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of the songs have that sort of like
Speaker 1: old school Disney quality to the like the the orchestration
Speaker 1: and um, I mean like some of them just like
Speaker 1: the the like swelling of the music if so emotional,
Speaker 1: like the the Grandfather song Grandfather, Please Stand on the
Speaker 1: Shoulders of My Father? I think is oh my Father
Speaker 1: as something. Yeah, it's so beautiful. Um fish Tails also
Speaker 1: really lovely and then um, I also really like Margaret
Speaker 1: the song with Bleachers. I really like Candy Necklace. I
Speaker 1: do think the standouts, the real standouts are the singles
Speaker 1: that she's already released, Like yeah, I do think I
Speaker 1: do think A and W is the best song on
Speaker 1: the album A and W did you Know There's a tunnel? Um?
Speaker 1: I also love that she's like in conversation with the
Speaker 1: music she's already released, like on Um the Taco Truck,
Speaker 1: Venico Taco Truck, Venice Bitch. It's like I gasped, when
Speaker 1: so good, so self referential. It reminded me of Sissa
Speaker 1: sampling herself in her last album and like bringing us
Speaker 1: back to these like iconic moments from their career and
Speaker 1: then putting it in a completely new context. That almost
Speaker 1: like it's like Lana kind of evaluating her self, which
Speaker 1: I feel like she has been doing a lot over
Speaker 1: the last few albums because when like when Laana like
Speaker 1: emerged on the scene, you know, she was the complete package.
Speaker 1: She had an aesthetic, she had a vibe, she presented
Speaker 1: like you know who, she was pretty unapologetically, and now
Speaker 1: like these more recent albums, it's like her looking back
Speaker 1: at her own archetype and seeing what she's going to
Speaker 1: take and what she's gonna leave. I'm gonna take mine
Speaker 1: of view with me, etc. Etc. So, like what you
Speaker 1: said about you know, her self referencing and in something
Speaker 1: like Venice Bitch, I think it just she she's doing
Speaker 1: something that she does so well on this album in general,
Speaker 1: which is take off a whole language of like you know,
Speaker 1: Laana isms and pull them back and give them a
Speaker 1: completely new meaning, Like Venice Bitch had a new meaning
Speaker 1: at the end of this album and this song, and
Speaker 1: that I really appreciated. Same thing with Peppers. To me,
Speaker 1: I mean the trope of letting the light in and
Speaker 1: is like I think, really a beautiful kind of theme
Speaker 1: like thematic device throughout this album. Um. With Kinsugi specifically,
Speaker 1: I mean Kintsugi, like that is such a stumble upon
Speaker 1: thing like that is such a like tumbler girl discovers
Speaker 1: like what Kintsugi is and like it's her whole personality
Speaker 1: for like three months. Um. But like that's what Lana does.
Speaker 1: So Will is like is take this like the most
Speaker 1: basic ass behavior and elevate it into an art form.
Speaker 1: Yes literally like basic into like actually like translatable like
Speaker 1: megamind art star. Um. I will say. The Father John
Speaker 1: Misty song is giving youth group. I could not I
Speaker 1: could not really I could not really get on it.
Speaker 1: I felt like part of me wanted songs like that
Speaker 1: to like No, I just wish there were more songs
Speaker 1: like A ANDW that was like my only thing, Like
Speaker 1: I wanted a little more grit, grit and glamor see.
Speaker 1: I felt that way with the interludes, which if you
Speaker 1: do a little digging, are are from this like church
Speaker 1: that she sometimes attends and their sermons from the pastor
Speaker 1: and like that I didn't really vibe with. And I
Speaker 1: was with my friend Hilton yesterday and they were saying,
Speaker 1: like that those songs are gonna ruin the experience of
Speaker 1: having just Launa on shuffle, and like one of those
Speaker 1: comes on, So maybe those will be songs that I
Speaker 1: have to block on Spotify. Yeah, but I do really
Speaker 1: think when placed in context with the rest of La
Speaker 1: Launa's discography, like this just makes so much sense and
Speaker 1: it's such a logical next step an evolution for her.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I wish I wish this album had been
Speaker 1: out before our conversation with Sean, But I also think
Speaker 1: we had a really good experience of like talking about
Speaker 1: who Lana is as this album was about to be released,
Speaker 1: and like where where she stands in the culture and
Speaker 1: with all of us specifically. So I still think it's
Speaker 1: like a very It was. It was a great conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: happy Lana Day, Happy Happy Lana Weekend, Happy Lana week month, whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: there are some things that we that I know are
Speaker 1: like out in the culture that we just um that
Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about today. Neither Fran or
Speaker 1: I have watched the first episode of the new season
Speaker 1: of Yellow Jackets, and we might hold that for the Patreon,
Speaker 1: So if you want to hear our thoughts, you're going
Speaker 1: to have to subscribe Patreon on tom Slush like a virgin. Also,
Speaker 1: I have been spending the last couple months catching up
Speaker 1: on Succession and I'm almost I'm like midway through season three.
Speaker 1: So we will talk about Succession. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we'll do it here or on the patron, but I'm
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like full successionista now. I season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask got me Yeah. It was very
Speaker 1: hard for me to get into it first. I was
Speaker 1: really bored through the most of season one, and then
Speaker 1: the end of season one like got me hooked, and
Speaker 1: I just like plowed through season two really quickly, and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm fully obsessed now. I said this on the pod.
Speaker 1: I think I tried to watch the first episode of
Speaker 1: Succession like four times because every time I was so
Speaker 1: bored and I turned it off. But once you're in it, Steva,
Speaker 1: you're in it. Yeah. I just I love I love Shiv,
Speaker 1: I love Tom and Greg. I also love how none
Speaker 1: of them are using iPhones because they're all villains and
Speaker 1: we know that rule that Apple has. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: I also love um what's her face? The mom the
Speaker 1: mean mommy, mean mommy, who like Don Lawyer, called Jerry
Speaker 1: Jerry Jerry Jerry. I also love um. I love Cherry
Speaker 1: Jones and Holly Hunter. Cherry Jones plays the you know,
Speaker 1: like the matriarch of the other so companies perfect arch
Speaker 1: nemesis yea. And Holly Hunter with her fucking bangs. Holly
Speaker 1: Hunter is crazy in this show. Oh my god. Um okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do a Patreon discussion. I can't wait to deep die. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll maybe we'll have to bring um back a
Speaker 1: previous guest to do like a proper Succession episode we have,
Speaker 1: And I wonder who that I wonder who that could be? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Who who has been on the show like loves Succession
Speaker 1: very publicly. We'll see, We'll see, Okay, without further ado yeah,
Speaker 1: my pussy tastes like pepsicola. It doesn't. It'd be like
Speaker 1: a diet home flavorying diamond two baby, New York City, Sean,
Speaker 1: what's your earliest memory of Lana? Like? When? When were you?
Speaker 1: When was your cherry pop? Have you been there since
Speaker 1: the beginning? I have been there, of course, have been
Speaker 1: there since the beginning. I was like a gay boy
Speaker 1: on Tumblr. M I actually video games. I wasn't as
Speaker 1: I wasn't like right there at the beginning of video games,
Speaker 1: before that breakout moment. I think Born to Die the
Speaker 1: song with the Flower Crown and the Throne is like
Speaker 1: my strongest memory of like the first song of lambdor
Speaker 1: Rays that I became obsessed with, and then I went
Speaker 1: back to video games. But I was there from pretty
Speaker 1: early on, Like I have only ever seen Lana live
Speaker 1: and that was twenty thirteen and it was the Born
Speaker 1: to Die Paradise edition era. So yeah, I'm a Flower
Speaker 1: crown Erastan. Okay, Well, my stand um does predate yours
Speaker 1: just a little bit. Okay, this ship, yes, one of tranship.
Speaker 1: So I was I was having a party at my
Speaker 1: old apartment in Bushwick and my friend pulled me into
Speaker 1: my bedroom to do coke, and while we were doing it,
Speaker 1: she pulled out her phone and was like, you have
Speaker 1: to watch this music video of this girl that I
Speaker 1: was in AA with, and she pulled it out and
Speaker 1: put on video. It's not Miss Lana would be honestly
Speaker 1: so proud of your Internet Alana, Like that is so befitting.
Speaker 1: I mean, you were in Brooklyn, not in you know,
Speaker 1: southern California or whatever, so that's like the only you know, misalignment.
Speaker 1: But like, I think she would love that, you know,
Speaker 1: you were doing coke in a bedroom and talking about
Speaker 1: you know, a yeah. Well she think she would. She
Speaker 1: would because she's she is. She's always been kind of
Speaker 1: a sober icon. Like she's been quite open about being
Speaker 1: sober from the beginning. But she also like likes to
Speaker 1: hark back to the glory. She's like one of those
Speaker 1: sober people that likes to talk about when they used
Speaker 1: to do coke. So she'd be glad that, like people
Speaker 1: are bombing over coke, do you know what I mean? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, friend?
Speaker 1: What was your intro to Lana? So much like Shanna,
Speaker 1: I also used to be a gay boy on Tumblr
Speaker 1: and I have said on this podcast that Lana is
Speaker 1: the most successful pop star to like emerge from the
Speaker 1: indie sleeves era, specifically on Tumblr, and that was definitely
Speaker 1: my um exposure to her as well. I definitely found
Speaker 1: out about her on Tumblr, like in the twenty tens,
Speaker 1: like her like gifts and images and like and just
Speaker 1: like you know, the tracks when tumbler could like put
Speaker 1: any track on the blog and you could listen to
Speaker 1: all the really unreleased shit like that was my kind
Speaker 1: of first impression. And I actually don't really remember what
Speaker 1: the first song I heard was, but obviously the first
Speaker 1: thing that stuck to me was the gangster Nancy Sinatra thing,
Speaker 1: because at the time I was going in college, I
Speaker 1: was going through a big Nancy Sinatra phase and then
Speaker 1: Lana just happened to emerge on the scene or in
Speaker 1: my life, and I was like, oh, like she I mean,
Speaker 1: I hate the kind of epithet gangster Nancy Sinatra. However
Speaker 1: she does sound she has it. She sounds like Nancy Sinatra,
Speaker 1: and I latched onto first and foremost that like the
Speaker 1: aesthetic world that she built immediately on arrival, I mean,
Speaker 1: her second arrival when she rebranded after Lizzie Grant, but
Speaker 1: like that was like I just remember seeing the full
Speaker 1: picture of her as this like sixties Los Angeles batty
Speaker 1: and I was like, I get it, yes, and excuse
Speaker 1: us for dead names, but you know, she does seem
Speaker 1: to be comfortable with the fact that we all know
Speaker 1: shece was Lizzie Grant, so I think it's okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I actually like I was never in the Lizzie
Speaker 1: Grant era. I don't know much about that era, y'all. No,
Speaker 1: not really. I mean the music has definitely endured, Like
Speaker 1: you know, her unreleased songs are legendary and the real
Speaker 1: real stands, like even deeper stands than I am have
Speaker 1: like an encyclopedic knowledge of them. I'm more aware of
Speaker 1: the visuals of that era, like her with the Blonde.
Speaker 1: It's very much Yeah, it's very much thing when Katy
Speaker 1: Perry was Katherine Hudson and she was a Christian rock musician, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: it are there other examples of that, Like, yeah, Katie
Speaker 1: Perry is one of like other other big names with
Speaker 1: pre eras that we've kind of like memory hold. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think, like, um, Shakira was Shakira was like
Speaker 1: in the Spanish language, was kind of like an alanist.
Speaker 1: Morrisset like sing a songwriter Gabriel Garcia marqueza that if
Speaker 1: one hundred Years of Solitude was ever going to be
Speaker 1: turned into a film, he would want Shakira to write
Speaker 1: the entire musical score. And then she was like I'm
Speaker 1: going to really she Wolf, well, I guess let me,
Speaker 1: let me get on my la and wasn't there. Also
Speaker 1: didn't Mariah reveal that she at one point had a
Speaker 1: sort of like emo grunge moment that she like wrote
Speaker 1: a whole kind of pop rock album. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's everyone's had different eras. Madonna of Us is another one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Donna was the front runner. Who was the front woman
Speaker 1: of a band. I'm trying to think of others. Well, Pink,
Speaker 1: Pink had that first album where she was black as well.
Speaker 1: There was that. I mean, it's so good as well.
Speaker 1: I was listening to that. Thank you, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for bringing up Pink because we really needed to
Speaker 1: invoke her on this podcast. We need to do a
Speaker 1: Pink episode at some point. We absolutely do not need
Speaker 1: to do a Pink episode. I don't think you need
Speaker 1: to Pink episode. But my big theory is that stupid girls.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that song that's that's a turf anothing,
Speaker 1: that's a turf anthem, that tour of anthem. You're so right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Pink has has rad found vibe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's got radigal feminists like you know, I didn't you know,
Speaker 1: women didn't fight for your right to wear heels and
Speaker 1: Panda to the male gaze. It's got that kind of
Speaker 1: those teas. But I think I must be in the banks.
Speaker 1: It's the kind of Kate Gosling Bank that's going to
Speaker 1: be like the new era of turf Banks is actually
Speaker 1: going to be the Pink Swoop. Yeah, grown out, a
Speaker 1: bit pushed to the side. Yeah, she does. In fairness though,
Speaker 1: the reason that I think Pink uh like has kind
Speaker 1: of now managed to escape any anything like about her
Speaker 1: turf song and her sort of like racially ambiguous problematic
Speaker 1: eras that she hates both of them, where she hates
Speaker 1: stupid girls and she's always hated it and she's always
Speaker 1: hated that first album, so that you can't really be
Speaker 1: like m your first album you Yeah, so much like podcasts,
Speaker 1: Pink is Pink is uncancellable. M fran I do think
Speaker 1: you hit on like some of the things that really
Speaker 1: characterized Lana's early fame, and I think what people latched onto,
Speaker 1: which was that she literally sounded like she was from
Speaker 1: another era, and she also was like mashing the esthetics
Speaker 1: of a bygone time with very like girl internet like
Speaker 1: um soft grunge like she was. I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's ever been an artist that was more perfect to
Speaker 1: be tumbler famous like she just was what all the
Speaker 1: girlies wanted to be. Um. I mean, Sean, like, what
Speaker 1: did you what did you latch onto about her? I
Speaker 1: think what I latched onto, Look, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: obviously I just said Born to Die was my first
Speaker 1: experience with her. But where I really feel like it
Speaker 1: popped off for me in terms of my obsession with
Speaker 1: her was Ride and the Ride monologue, because I don't know,
Speaker 1: it was the kind of like campy but also deeply earnest,
Speaker 1: like lines like you know, I was in the winter
Speaker 1: of my life and the men I met along the
Speaker 1: road were my only summer and at that time, I
Speaker 1: think that was probably my peak grinder era of like
Speaker 1: pre transition. Trying to so I feel like Lana Delay
Speaker 1: came aroung at the right time for me to self narrativize. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I guess a kind of certain self homy interest
Speaker 1: in men. I mean, look, that will do it, honestly.
Speaker 1: I Yeah, the monologue is so iconic. My friend Willie
Speaker 1: Norris has this incredible performance of it. I strongly recommend
Speaker 1: if if anybody, if any of the Virgins, can find
Speaker 1: like a video of it. Yeah, there's something about that
Speaker 1: monologue and just about the extremely cinematic, which I think
Speaker 1: is like I use that word all the time, but
Speaker 1: I think it's very befitting for Lona is that she
Speaker 1: was writing songs as if they were movies, Like so
Speaker 1: much of her aesthetic was entwined in Hollywood, and I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, when you listen to her songs
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, this is less true of like the
Speaker 1: first two albums, but like sometimes their songs kind of
Speaker 1: blend together as this like backdrop or landscape for the
Speaker 1: world that she lives in. And like, uh, yeah, but
Speaker 1: that but that monologue just like painted a character that
Speaker 1: we just like got to know more and more in
Speaker 1: all of its problems and LORI you know, but it's
Speaker 1: also ridiculous, isn't it. I remember, like around the first
Speaker 1: album time, a friend of mine used to always joke
Speaker 1: that Lana Darey's favorite book was the Wikipedia summary of Lolita,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like true. Yeah, there's like something
Speaker 1: about the fact that it's like, I don't know, the flickering,
Speaker 1: the Americana of it all is like very like like
Speaker 1: I don't know, like slightly vacuous as well. Um, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's like her her idea of America is like you
Speaker 1: can find It's it's like what you can find for sale,
Speaker 1: like at a gas station. You know. It's it's like
Speaker 1: she is like cherry picking these very kind of like
Speaker 1: superficial um images of what America is and kind of
Speaker 1: working backwards from there and like trying to make them profound,
Speaker 1: and it really works. Yeah, I think that they're I mean,
Speaker 1: it is, there's a lot of it that is superficial.
Speaker 1: But I also think that, you know, the gas station
Speaker 1: girlie that she is. I can't even remember, there's an
Speaker 1: unreleased song about her at a gas station or something,
Speaker 1: and that really is her esthetic and that really is
Speaker 1: actually I think, like a segment of California that exists,
Speaker 1: and I think that like her weird conservatism and like
Speaker 1: her complete like I don't give a fuckery about like
Speaker 1: whatever she's doing. I think is that's a real culture,
Speaker 1: you know, like a thought a culture I want to
Speaker 1: hang out with, but like that's a real culture, that's
Speaker 1: like a real group of people I think in America
Speaker 1: that I think she acutely identified. You know. I love
Speaker 1: that we mentioned Lolita though, because like the first thing
Speaker 1: I thought it was when Azalea called her little what
Speaker 1: you called her, like little Lolita Chola cosplay or something
Speaker 1: like that. So well, they do it. They do have
Speaker 1: epic beef. I mean, Lana and Azalia, I actually think
Speaker 1: do kind of encapsulate two of the you know, different
Speaker 1: sides of the tumbler girl aesthetic that that existed at
Speaker 1: that time. And so of course, like they had to
Speaker 1: have beef at some point. Yeah, that beef was so
Speaker 1: specific to early Twitter days too. Oh yeah, it was it.
Speaker 1: What was it? Lana said something like pull up? That
Speaker 1: was her like pull up, but I wouldn't. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: thing is is that I was just thinking about that
Speaker 1: because I feel like a little bit I feel bad
Speaker 1: that I've just said that, like on some level it
Speaker 1: was a bit vacuous because at the same time, I
Speaker 1: think like at that early stage around the first album,
Speaker 1: and it's something that she's spoken about a lot, like
Speaker 1: Lana got savaged by critics who basically didn't get it.
Speaker 1: She felt that the music had been made poppier than
Speaker 1: she was expecting. She's just said that in a covering
Speaker 1: of view for Rolling Stone UK. She revisited that that
Speaker 1: the album ended up poppier than she expected it and
Speaker 1: then critics kind of didn't get her, and that there
Speaker 1: was a lot to do with at the time, her esthetics,
Speaker 1: the like suspicions that she'd had plastic surgery, the slightly
Speaker 1: like retro styling. Was that it was around the time
Speaker 1: where like Beyonce was about to drop her kind of
Speaker 1: feminist album with Self, like everyone was becoming like it
Speaker 1: was becoming popular to say you were a feminist in
Speaker 1: pop culture, and she just seemed to be out of
Speaker 1: step with the direction of travel. And I think she
Speaker 1: has felt quite traumatized ever since by that response that
Speaker 1: she had at least critics she is kind of a
Speaker 1: woman out of time and like you're so right, and
Speaker 1: that she was so misunderstood, And I think she has
Speaker 1: carried that feeling with her throughout her career, sometimes to
Speaker 1: her detriment, like with the question for the culture of
Speaker 1: it all, but like, I mean, was there a more
Speaker 1: unifying pop culture event than Lana on SNL? Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That was one of the early memes, especially
Speaker 1: on Tumblr, the little PNG gift of her twirling on everything.
Speaker 1: It's so good. I mean sometimes it still comes up
Speaker 1: on my Instagram feed and there's never a time I
Speaker 1: won't stop and watch that. And there's like so much
Speaker 1: you can do with the captions, and I think the like, also,
Speaker 1: do you think that that, Like I feel like that
Speaker 1: whole response, especially the way that like it was kind
Speaker 1: of you brought up the question for the culture, but
Speaker 1: the misogynistic element of her esthetic and the fact that
Speaker 1: people male critics seemed obsessed with, you know, her appearance
Speaker 1: and surgery and stuff like that. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: that there's some there's some trends identification films that I
Speaker 1: have absolutely, absolutely the thing about Lana is that she
Speaker 1: is like she is a plinth upon which to project
Speaker 1: like whatever your thing is, and so in that way,
Speaker 1: to me, she is a very transfer Yeah, she is.
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether or not she's she's very
Speaker 1: like I feel like white trends woman vibes as well,
Speaker 1: because she's obviously just very white woman of being like
Speaker 1: slightly affronted and kind of a little bit narcissistic in
Speaker 1: the sense that she's really wronged by society, which is
Speaker 1: kind of giving very specifically white trans woman. I can
Speaker 1: think I can think of a few, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think in that like trans that this kind of like
Speaker 1: this like trans reading like to me, I always talk
Speaker 1: about it's so annoying, but like the bimbification of our
Speaker 1: generation and how we're all just like everybody should be
Speaker 1: a bimbo now, like Lana predated that, a lot of
Speaker 1: pop stars predated that obviously, But you know, Sean, like
Speaker 1: earlier you were talking about just um, you know, the
Speaker 1: word vacuous and like you know whether you know using
Speaker 1: that word to describe Lane. And I do think that,
Speaker 1: especially in that SNL performance, vacuousness is the aesthetic like
Speaker 1: and why can it? Why can't it? And I think
Speaker 1: that like if Lana, if Lana word emerge in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three or whatever, I think it would have been.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it would be there would be so
Speaker 1: much different context. But like that we would be having
Speaker 1: different conversations about her, right, Like we wouldn't we would
Speaker 1: be like honoring and commending her vacuousness, which I think
Speaker 1: Tumbler did, do you know, Like we did love that
Speaker 1: she was like distant and weird and awkward and empty. Well,
Speaker 1: it also left a lot of room for people to
Speaker 1: fill the gaps in and like make her deeper than
Speaker 1: maybe she even meant to be until she actually started
Speaker 1: meeting them there and like became kind of a very deep,
Speaker 1: introspective person. Yeah, And I think like also like that
Speaker 1: one are the aspects of the trans reading for me,
Speaker 1: which is what I said earlier about the ride monologue,
Speaker 1: but about that, like at that time, I was literally
Speaker 1: just trying to like fit in with mostly gay men
Speaker 1: that I was friends with at the time by on
Speaker 1: Grinder and stuff like that, So it was it was
Speaker 1: a kind of appropriate, um, I don't know, accompaniment to that,
Speaker 1: but with a specifically like trans feminine reading. I think
Speaker 1: it's because there's a lot right from the beginning with
Speaker 1: Anna Delay about like um, like seeing yourself through how
Speaker 1: men see you, and about this idea of like her
Speaker 1: gaze being like projected into male gaze. I can is
Speaker 1: it off to the races where she's like, he likes
Speaker 1: to watch me in the glassroom, perfume kanyet lie, Like
Speaker 1: whatever is that? Like it's her singing about a man
Speaker 1: looking at her, So it's her gaze on a man
Speaker 1: looking at her, which I think is very trans woman totally.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can only speak for myself, but in
Speaker 1: the early years of my transition, like, um, male validation
Speaker 1: was one of the things that validated my gender, Like
Speaker 1: being called on the street. As awful as it was,
Speaker 1: also like made me feel super cunty because I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if they're you know, like, um, you know, yelling at me,
Speaker 1: then at least that means they like think I'm a
Speaker 1: woman and they want to fuck me, and that is
Speaker 1: very langel Ray code that this would get me canceled
Speaker 1: in the UK. No, I think I think that's true.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think, I mean, I love that
Speaker 1: you said in me because we like we're around the
Speaker 1: same age biologically, and also we transitioned around the same time.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I love that she's saying in
Speaker 1: my early transition because I was like, that was me
Speaker 1: a month ago. Yeah, yeah, in my early transition. I
Speaker 1: use men for validation. There was a really I can't
Speaker 1: remember who looking for days. I remember a few years ago,
Speaker 1: like a lesbian writer wrote specifically about how Lana del
Speaker 1: Rey helped her understand like what her straight women friends
Speaker 1: were talking about because she's so obsessed with, like I
Speaker 1: don't know that, like the sort of inherent humiliations of
Speaker 1: being a woman in heterosexuality in a way that I
Speaker 1: think is like you don't really like she almost sings
Speaker 1: about heterosexuality like she's an outsider to it because she
Speaker 1: really sort of like it doesn't seem natural to her.
Speaker 1: It's something that she is constantly analyzing. And like I said,
Speaker 1: like when when everyone else in that time where the
Speaker 1: early twenty tens were starting to become like yeah, feminism,
Speaker 1: she was actually singing some pretty regressive things that clearly
Speaker 1: a lot I think now we could probably accept that
Speaker 1: quite a lot of women still feel and struggle with
Speaker 1: inviolation to men, and thank God for that we need it.
Speaker 1: It's very motivating. M Yeah, I mean, I am but
Speaker 1: a baby trans but like I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: there is this kind of like moment somewhere along the
Speaker 1: way where you're like, oh, like I have like workshopped
Speaker 1: and created like my femininity around like what men want,
Speaker 1: and that's like embarrassing, you know. I think that there's
Speaker 1: like a I think that there's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: wonder if, like Lana, I feel like, you know, when
Speaker 1: we're talking about the different eras of Lana, I wonder
Speaker 1: if Lana ever had this kind of realization where or
Speaker 1: rather like, I'm not a Laana scholars, so I'm actually asking, like,
Speaker 1: do you think that there was like a pivotal moment
Speaker 1: where Lana was like, I'm a different artist now post
Speaker 1: video games? She wanted to like take herself more seriously
Speaker 1: and you know, release all these like slow ballads and
Speaker 1: a new era of like deeper raw music or I
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I think she's always taken
Speaker 1: herself very seriously. That I think that's kind of the
Speaker 1: thing with Lana. I do believe that there was a
Speaker 1: certain point where she decided to make music that interested
Speaker 1: her and she didn't really care what anyone else thought
Speaker 1: about it, And that actually, to me, is when she
Speaker 1: started making her best music. Like I think probably Norman
Speaker 1: fucking Rockwell is like her at her most introspective and
Speaker 1: That's why I think it's her best album and like
Speaker 1: her creative peak in a lot of ways. I kind
Speaker 1: of agree with Raise completely. It's my favorite of her albums,
Speaker 1: and I do think it's her peak today, although I
Speaker 1: think the New One has the potential too. I saw
Speaker 1: a really good meme about the new one racing It's
Speaker 1: not like thank you for saving my life meme where
Speaker 1: and it was too. Do you know there's a ton
Speaker 1: of on Derosion Boulevard and the album to Soundswering Batman
Speaker 1: I'm not even released yet. Yeah, yeah, it does. It
Speaker 1: does feel like a return. I think tom music that
Speaker 1: she hasn't been making for a little bit, um like
Speaker 1: A and W and we we talked about this recently,
Speaker 1: that ANW does feel a little spiritually closer to some
Speaker 1: of her earlier work. Yeah, you know, I think Norman
Speaker 1: Fucking Rockwell is her best album. It's not my favorite
Speaker 1: album just because Ultra Violence was so formative for me
Speaker 1: and I spent so much time with it, and like
Speaker 1: the summer that Ultra Violence came out, whenever I went
Speaker 1: to someone's apartment, I would be like, turn on your
Speaker 1: AC and turn on Ultra Violence, and not with just Well.
Speaker 1: It was never not being listened to and it's fucking music.
Speaker 1: Norman fucking wrote Well was a breakup album for me
Speaker 1: after I had had like it was my biggest attempt
Speaker 1: at assimilating into heterosexuality. It was just before the pandemic
Speaker 1: and I had like a straight boyfriend and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and then in the end the irreconcilable differences of the
Speaker 1: fact that he just basically wanted me to be like
Speaker 1: his like cis girlfriend and like settled down and get
Speaker 1: married and have kids, and I realized I couldn't do that,
Speaker 1: so I left him, and then Norman fucking Rockwell came out,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's it's such a mood as
Speaker 1: a breakup album to be like a goddamn near sociopath
Speaker 1: and like Sylvia, I mean, I was just I was
Speaker 1: living and then we and then we went into like
Speaker 1: Quarantine and I just listened to it all the time.
Speaker 1: What a like that is? Like so like, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that you experienced that breakup, but you're so lucky that
Speaker 1: Norman fucking rock or was it like that must have
Speaker 1: felt so cathar Like you must have been wallowing and
Speaker 1: laying around and so sad and like it's a dangerous
Speaker 1: thing for a woman like me to have. But I
Speaker 1: have it. But I have it, But I have it period.
Speaker 1: She has had it. Um god, um wait, Rose, did
Speaker 1: you ever have like a Lana breakup era or like
Speaker 1: a Lana heartbreak era? I think, um, yeah, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: like none that I want to talk about. Um, I
Speaker 1: mean Lana For me, I do tend to visit Lana
Speaker 1: more when I'm feeling slutty than when I'm feeling sad
Speaker 1: or when I'm feeling like the perfect mix of both. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just when I'm binary? What a binary? I'm I'm non binary,
Speaker 1: I'm slutty, I'm sad often yeah same um yeah um.
Speaker 1: We should also say for the Virgins unsure of when
Speaker 1: this episode is coming out, but as of record, we
Speaker 1: only have a n W out as her most recent release.
Speaker 1: And like I also am excited for this era, Like
Speaker 1: I do think it has the potential just from this
Speaker 1: that one song to be something that is like greater
Speaker 1: than Norman fucking Rockwell. And just as Rose said, like
Speaker 1: her earlier era, there's something about n W that is
Speaker 1: distinctly sound cloudy, you know what I mean, Like it
Speaker 1: sounds like a little like grungy roddy. It sounds kind
Speaker 1: of tinny at the end, like it sounds like it's
Speaker 1: you know, pumping through like a laptop speaker or something
Speaker 1: like I really one of those old white MacBooks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's coming out of that. It kind
Speaker 1: of the end of it kind of gives unreleased Lizzy
Speaker 1: Grant track. Yeah, It's like I wasn't just a nice
Speaker 1: seven minute like the sort of like egregious ego of
Speaker 1: road dropping like a seven minute song. I just feel
Speaker 1: like we haven't seen the like in years. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's giving like I don't know, like a since since
Speaker 1: I goistic, but it's a yeah, no I know, but
Speaker 1: like I do, I do kind of miss you know.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking the other day in when Gaga
Speaker 1: would just release like insanely long music videos and then
Speaker 1: like we all became white fatigued by it, and then
Speaker 1: and then they went back to normal length. I think
Speaker 1: it's just time for like stupidly long songs and maybe
Speaker 1: even a return to long music videos. Well now, but
Speaker 1: like absolutely well now that every song is like TikTok length,
Speaker 1: I think we really crave like longer songs that you know,
Speaker 1: dare to defy the Spotify algorithm. You know, we talked
Speaker 1: a lot about like Ethel Kaine and like when she
Speaker 1: you're you know, her album, you know, mixed reviews, but
Speaker 1: a lot of people hated that Thoroughfare is nine minutes,
Speaker 1: that all these songs are seven minutes or whatever. And
Speaker 1: Ethel Caine has like cited Lana as like her favorite
Speaker 1: artist of all time, and I just like, like why not,
Speaker 1: you know, like I personally, you know, seven to nine
Speaker 1: minute songs are like a lot of them are usually
Speaker 1: they feel like experiments, so they don't feel finished or
Speaker 1: they like drag on. But like I would much rather
Speaker 1: someone try to do it and dare to like experiment,
Speaker 1: experiment or make something that's like kind of all the
Speaker 1: way out there, you know. Ethelcaine. Ethel Caine who dated
Speaker 1: Lana's bisexual porn star boyfriend. H yeah did you Yeah?
Speaker 1: This guy has like bit has made the rounds with
Speaker 1: the girls I wanted to do I want to do
Speaker 1: it where it was his Instagram drop his ig So
Speaker 1: he's so hot in the grossest way possible. Oh no,
Speaker 1: does he look like super unemployable? Yes? Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: my type two. Okay, we need we need the ig dropped?
Speaker 1: Do you know I didn't. I didn't know. I was
Speaker 1: listening to the eel Kan album all of last year.
Speaker 1: I only found out she's trans like a month ago.
Speaker 1: How did I miss that? You know? The trans pop
Speaker 1: girlies are are, you know, coming in stealth? Like I
Speaker 1: feel like when Kim Petris emerged on the scene, so
Speaker 1: many of my friends had no idea she was trans.
Speaker 1: And I think that's amazing, you know, I think Ethel
Speaker 1: it's not never something that she hid. The same thing
Speaker 1: with Kim. It's like never something she hid. But it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like just like a kind of thread
Speaker 1: in the fabric of her life, I think. And I
Speaker 1: can't wait for Lana to come out as trans f
Speaker 1: to f trans woman. She kind of is. She is
Speaker 1: like Liddy Grant is. Yeah, is before I was going
Speaker 1: to actually just talk about that. It is. Also what
Speaker 1: is funny is that Lana Delray has somewhat detransitioned in
Speaker 1: terms of her femininity from this like heart like the
Speaker 1: esthetic of the beginning, which obviously is to do as
Speaker 1: well with the fact that she obviously was like horrifically
Speaker 1: pressured to like lose loads of weight and so she's
Speaker 1: become more I guess, more comfortable. But there's all this
Speaker 1: discourse around the fact that her style is that she
Speaker 1: just dresses like a regular person and that like this
Speaker 1: like higher target. Yeah, so that like this highly kind
Speaker 1: of um, I don't know, like manicured esthetic of the
Speaker 1: first like album or two. It's clearly something that she
Speaker 1: never really was that comfortable with. And I think it's
Speaker 1: kind of great that she's like able able to just
Speaker 1: dress like a normal now and yet and yet that esthetic,
Speaker 1: the aesthetic of your is kind of what her music
Speaker 1: has bred in the people who listen to it. Like
Speaker 1: I was, I have my sisters who are twenty, they're
Speaker 1: visiting and they're staying with me, and I was mentioning
Speaker 1: Lana Delray to them, and like they're super familiar with her.
Speaker 1: They have friends who love her and listen to her,
Speaker 1: but they're friends who love her. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the girls who are still like very enamored
Speaker 1: with her and the whole low leader vibe, like are
Speaker 1: still like like seeing her as this pinnacle of like
Speaker 1: a high of like an internet high fem persona, when
Speaker 1: that like aesthetic is so completely divorced from who Laana
Speaker 1: is irl, And it's just fascinating to me the way
Speaker 1: that Laana has endured as this high fem Internet icon
Speaker 1: for so long while not actually giving that so much
Speaker 1: in her like literal aesthetic. I either we've just cut,
Speaker 1: we haven't even bothered talking about Lust for Life, No
Speaker 1: one does. Yeah, I mean for me, there are like Honeymoon.
Speaker 1: Lust for Life and Honeymoon are my least favorite Lana offerings. Um,
Speaker 1: they're the most skippable to me. Yeah, I concur I
Speaker 1: mean I actually think as well. This is what's strange,
Speaker 1: isn't it is that I feel like there are the
Speaker 1: like albums with the capitol A and then the albums
Speaker 1: with the kind of lowercase A, and so like for me,
Speaker 1: the big Alblana albums are like Born to Die, Paradise Edition,
Speaker 1: Ultra Violence, Norman Fucking rock Quell, And then now I've
Speaker 1: sensed that it will be the case with did you
Speaker 1: know there's a Tunnel under Ocean Boulevard? Because also with
Speaker 1: chem Trails over the country Club and Blue Banisters. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess she was trying to do a little like
Speaker 1: Miss Taylor Swift vibe of like dropping two albums in
Speaker 1: the Pandemic that was so close together, but I just
Speaker 1: felt like they, as I say, the Pandemic was so
Speaker 1: overshadowed by my obsession with Norman fucking Rockwell that I
Speaker 1: just feel like I do like chem Trails over the
Speaker 1: Country club Work. I like the song, and I like
Speaker 1: Jesus Tells a Freak and is so good. I think
Speaker 1: it's one of her best songs. Yeah it is, But
Speaker 1: I just feel like the two albums and Blue Banisters
Speaker 1: is really good, but it's just like I just feel
Speaker 1: like they were too jam packed together and they weren't
Speaker 1: given enough room to breathe. And I do think I
Speaker 1: know that like Taylor Swift with Folklore and Evermore managed
Speaker 1: to get away with that, but I do just think
Speaker 1: in general, that's an section to the rule, and I
Speaker 1: think I think like releasing like custers of albums like that,
Speaker 1: especially probably in a time where I don't know, I
Speaker 1: felt somewhat distracted and so soon after such a huge
Speaker 1: landmark album like Norman fucking wrote, Well, they just I
Speaker 1: feel have always been a bit like Tier two for
Speaker 1: me in comparison. Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: Taylor did get away with Folklore and Evermore, but evermore
Speaker 1: still kind of is folklore B sides. And I say
Speaker 1: that as a big Taylor Swift fan, but I read
Speaker 1: something interesting recently. So Lana has been doing a lot
Speaker 1: of press around her new album, and she said that
Speaker 1: her last couple albums have been much more personal and
Speaker 1: like specifically about her family. And one thing she said
Speaker 1: about Blue Banisters was that she made it because she
Speaker 1: felt that she had to and she didn't really care
Speaker 1: about so much about releasing it, and in fact, that's
Speaker 1: why she did basically no promo for it and why
Speaker 1: she made that like you know Microsoft paint cover that
Speaker 1: we all joked about, and she said, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't have the exact quote, but she said something
Speaker 1: like she wanted it to be there in case anyone
Speaker 1: needed to go and like look it up and reference
Speaker 1: it and kind of investigate her and have more context
Speaker 1: for who she is as a person, and not really
Speaker 1: that she needed to have this big moment of like
Speaker 1: offering something to the world artistically. It's her finst Oh
Speaker 1: my god, you're so right, Blue Banisters, and maybe like, okay,
Speaker 1: here's here's what it is. Cam Trails is her close
Speaker 1: friends and Blue Banisters is her finstuff. This is one.
Speaker 1: This is just one for people that want a little
Speaker 1: bit more context. Um, what what is your what's what
Speaker 1: is your distinction between? Because do you think like a
Speaker 1: Finster is like Close Friends is like here's stuff that
Speaker 1: I'm going to share that's I wouldn't put on Maine,
Speaker 1: but like it's still if you screenshot it, my name
Speaker 1: is still there. So it's got to be okay a
Speaker 1: certain level. Whereas Finster is full mass. Yes, Finster is
Speaker 1: Finster is like top secret. Um, Finster is like I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't even really use my Finster anymore. Um, very
Speaker 1: miss Rose, bring it back. I used I used to
Speaker 1: love your Finster. There was some I used to I've
Speaker 1: gone back for it onto your Finster so many times,
Speaker 1: every every time that I've been prescribed prep there you
Speaker 1: had on your Finster like a girl with like a
Speaker 1: little like tank top that said bare back Princess. And
Speaker 1: I would go every time, screenshot it and then send
Speaker 1: it to Gaze. I'm so glad that I'm glad that
Speaker 1: it exists as a community resource well exactly like weibnisters. Yeah. Close,
Speaker 1: I would say that Close Friends has more. I utilize
Speaker 1: it more. Now is like farming for like opinions from
Speaker 1: people that I actually know IRL or I guess, okay,
Speaker 1: here's by close friends. I will only add to it
Speaker 1: people who I actually know in real life or like
Speaker 1: Internet friends that I feel comfortable sharing like a slightly
Speaker 1: more personal level of my social media experience with. And
Speaker 1: then Finster is like for the girls, and that's it.
Speaker 1: Like I have to have actually like spent time with
Speaker 1: you in real life and like be somewhat confident that
Speaker 1: you would not share my personal information with someone. Well
Speaker 1: what realistically for me with Finsters and with close friends,
Speaker 1: I have to be convinced that you are mentally ill
Speaker 1: like I am. Yes, actually to be the same kind
Speaker 1: of like you know, atypical, you know, like I feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like, um, there's a for me like
Speaker 1: close friends. I hate it that it's called close friends
Speaker 1: because it's not my close friends. No French. I use
Speaker 1: it definitely as like a control almost like a controlled audience.
Speaker 1: Like I don't really love posting things to like, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty thousand people, fifty thousand people or whatever, and so
Speaker 1: I think it's more like everyday like shit posting kind
Speaker 1: of like embarrassing date thing that happened that I'll share
Speaker 1: on close friends to a lot of people that I
Speaker 1: maybe have not met but like I know are good
Speaker 1: like Internet sisters, and then finstas like I'm posting my
Speaker 1: completely unsharable like dank memes like and like also I
Speaker 1: think I go there to like talk shit, because usually,
Speaker 1: like I don't want stuff on close friends if it
Speaker 1: can like travel, you know the I don't know if
Speaker 1: either of you have done this, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: confess it here. The most unwell use of my close
Speaker 1: friends ever is when I've taken all of my actual
Speaker 1: friends off close friends, put one person that I think
Speaker 1: is hot, and then put like basically a semi news
Speaker 1: that's diabolical Stan very Lana. I was going to ask, y'all,
Speaker 1: so what is it about Norman fucking Rockwell? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think lyrically, I mean like lyrically it is like stunning,
Speaker 1: Like I mean the fact that like it just the
Speaker 1: opening like opening with goddamn Manchild, you fuck me so good.
Speaker 1: I thought I almost said, I love you, like what
Speaker 1: an opening to an album, But also like Mariner's Apartment
Speaker 1: Complex is like one of the I just think one
Speaker 1: of the most gorgeous songs that I can think of,
Speaker 1: you know, of this century that's been written like um right,
Speaker 1: like it makes me want to cry. I was it like, um,
Speaker 1: you're lost at sea, our command your boat to me
Speaker 1: again if I misquoted that anyway, Like it's just pretely
Speaker 1: butchered that when I've been it's one of the most
Speaker 1: beautiful lyrics. But yeah, it's just I just think it's
Speaker 1: like lyrically, it's just gorgeous and it's sonically lush. It
Speaker 1: feels extremely vulnerable in a way that this artist, who
Speaker 1: I think started her career as being like a heightened
Speaker 1: like version of herself, like created this sort of persona.
Speaker 1: It feels very stripped back. It's very like my most
Speaker 1: personal album yet vibes, but like it actually was, and
Speaker 1: yet you can plug into it so easily. It really
Speaker 1: is some of the best things she's ever had to
Speaker 1: say about womanhood in like the Perfect Vehicle. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean from that, it's like everything on Norman fucking Rockwell too.
Speaker 1: This is the experience of being an American whore, Like
Speaker 1: there is just like holding hands they go together, I
Speaker 1: mean American. It's the experience of being an American horror.
Speaker 1: That line it's like such a like Lana del Rey
Speaker 1: algorithm generated like lyric and yet like as as so
Speaker 1: many are, and yet it works so well. Like and
Speaker 1: you know, the aesthetic through line of Norman Ruckle is
Speaker 1: just perfect for her. It's like classic Americana to the
Speaker 1: point of like a kind of weird chooginess, like almost
Speaker 1: like a dystopian like happy nuclear family kind of thing
Speaker 1: that I don't know, it just it just worked so
Speaker 1: well when I when it was announced and when I
Speaker 1: was listening to it. It is a crystallization of everything
Speaker 1: she's ever done. I remember in like twenty twelve when
Speaker 1: she was first round. I remember my a really good
Speaker 1: friend of mine at the time saying they're not my
Speaker 1: friend anymore because of this. No they they said something like, oh,
Speaker 1: I really like how long could she keep basically this up,
Speaker 1: like this kind of nostalgic but this idea that she
Speaker 1: would be kind of like on one album Wonder And
Speaker 1: it always I always think of it about like, actually,
Speaker 1: how the longevity in her career and the idea that like,
Speaker 1: I guess it returns to my earlier point about how
Speaker 1: she was received, but this idea that it was a
Speaker 1: stick that was going to come to an end, when
Speaker 1: in fact she's really only kind of deepened it. There's
Speaker 1: been like full arcs within it where she's returned. But
Speaker 1: also like we haven't really mentioned Billy Eilish, but like
Speaker 1: the very fat that there are so many, there's so
Speaker 1: much Lana del Rey progeny now that like these artists
Speaker 1: raised Billy Eilish. You know, there would be no Billy
Speaker 1: Irelish without Lana del Ray, which Billy said in that
Speaker 1: interview magazine interview when she interviewed Lana, I didn't know that. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: question for the culture. Fuck Mary, kill Lana albums, Lana albums,
Speaker 1: Lana Eras. Sorry, I'll sorry, Yeah, okay, you go, Mary
Speaker 1: Norman fucking rock Well, fuck ultra violence kill lust for life. Okay,
Speaker 1: I won't do this. I won't do the same as
Speaker 1: you and Mary. I would. I would realistically, I would
Speaker 1: marry Um Norman fucking rock Well too, But let's say
Speaker 1: because I would maybe fuck Born to Die. I love
Speaker 1: Born to Die. I love I love cocaine and old
Speaker 1: cock as a kind of motif. Um not not not
Speaker 1: literally anymore, but I I Yeah, so I feel like
Speaker 1: I still find the kind of glamor, of Born to Die,
Speaker 1: like it's often one that I will still put on
Speaker 1: when I'm putting on my makeup. So I would probably
Speaker 1: fuck that. I would probably I have to marry Norman
Speaker 1: fucking rock Well. It was my breakup album, and then
Speaker 1: I would kill Lust for life. Like I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't think. I don't think I've ever like
Speaker 1: apart from when it like maybe the first month that
Speaker 1: came out, I never returned to her. Yeah, doing us
Speaker 1: duet with the Weekend is the kiss of death for me.
Speaker 1: That makes me so sad. Well, do you know what
Speaker 1: we haven't Also is that I actually secretly also love
Speaker 1: This is quite trashy, maybe for like pure like pure
Speaker 1: Lizzy grandstands is I still love her old covers like
Speaker 1: she did for the Maleficent Disney Live action film. She
Speaker 1: did the same upon a Dream. I still love that.
Speaker 1: I love her cover of blue velvet, and I love
Speaker 1: Young and Beauty, and I love Young and Beautiful for
Speaker 1: the Great Gatsby film. They're all stunning. Yeah, especially the
Speaker 1: full orchestra version is so gorgeous. Yeah, when I go
Speaker 1: to heaven, was it like, please let me take my man.
Speaker 1: The codependent tease. I love it. Um Okay, Fran we
Speaker 1: need your fuck Mary Kill. It's it's that cinematic quality.
Speaker 1: I think to her music that it's like she's perfect
Speaker 1: actually for soundtracks in general. She needs to do more
Speaker 1: soundtracks except for them the Charlie's Angels Charlie's Angels verse
Speaker 1: on the Remember Okay, I would I'm cheating a little bit.
Speaker 1: I would kill Kim Trails. Sorry. I would marry Dealer
Speaker 1: from Blue Banisters specifically because that is a vibe that
Speaker 1: I could listen to for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's so much about that song
Speaker 1: that just like I connected with spirit. It's definitely probably
Speaker 1: top five Lana songs for me, just because it came
Speaker 1: I think the right time in my life or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I think I would fuck like her SoundCloud tumbler era,
Speaker 1: like I I'm thinking of. She has this song with
Speaker 1: Asap Rocky called Ryden. I think that I was obsets
Speaker 1: with in the first in my first year's moving to
Speaker 1: New York. And I think that that song Pale Moonlight,
Speaker 1: driving cars with boys dumb dumb, like that is like
Speaker 1: the era that I want to like fuck forever. I
Speaker 1: think Asap Rocky is so Hot in the National Anthem
Speaker 1: music video Lana's videos, do you have a favorite Lana video?
Speaker 1: Because you know those I think those are so like
Speaker 1: so woven in with her music. Yeah, I mean, ride
Speaker 1: is It's not my favorite song, but it probably is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite video. It's just because it, like
Speaker 1: remarked it's now so it's so genuinely nostalgiic because it's
Speaker 1: like ten years old, and it was such a specific
Speaker 1: time where like we're like the gift and like, you know,
Speaker 1: you get like the BuzzFeed breakdown of of it a well, honey,
Speaker 1: but Lana was keeping BuzzFeed's light build on, like fought catalog,
Speaker 1: Like the girlies would not have had jobs if Lana
Speaker 1: did not give them, you know, content to write about
Speaker 1: her such a specific era of media like that, when
Speaker 1: like Jezebel was kind of the apex of like feminist
Speaker 1: journalism or whatever. This is what I was going to
Speaker 1: say about the feminist of because I mentioned earlier about
Speaker 1: how obviously like she was a like, Lana was criticized
Speaker 1: a lot for the misogyny or the internalized misogyny rather
Speaker 1: of her lyrics. At this time when as I say
Speaker 1: it became popular for like more sort of mainstream female
Speaker 1: pop artists to have to identify as feminists, whereast it
Speaker 1: wasn't in the two thousands, really a cool thing to be.
Speaker 1: And what I love is that I feel like I
Speaker 1: don't know, we don't know whether or not, because she's
Speaker 1: always had this sort of persecuted, I misunderstood thing. But
Speaker 1: I feel my reading of it always is that Lana
Speaker 1: went through a phase of trolling. She's always kind of
Speaker 1: trolled media back. So there's some really like great headlines
Speaker 1: that there was one where she was asked about feminism
Speaker 1: and she was like, it really doesn't interest me at all.
Speaker 1: I'm much more interested in Tesla and our intergalactic possibility
Speaker 1: a taste, because you can't if you got it if
Speaker 1: you're focusing on one. I just, I mean, I kind
Speaker 1: of it's me when I get asked in press into
Speaker 1: these here about about the Harry Potter lady. Can we
Speaker 1: talk about our intercalactic possibilities? Not feminism? Yeah? That's such
Speaker 1: a And the other good headline that she gave, which
Speaker 1: was again it was a British interview, was The Guardian.
Speaker 1: Here it's Lana del Rey Colon I wish I was
Speaker 1: dead already love say, oh my god, she was so
Speaker 1: real for that. I mean that of that, That's why
Speaker 1: Dealer was so good. She's on there shrieking like I
Speaker 1: don't want to live, and I'm like, yes, like or
Speaker 1: of us these like you know lexapro bops Okay, like
Speaker 1: did you know there's a tunnel under Ocean Boulevard? Fucked
Speaker 1: me to death? Yes? Please now too dead. It's giving
Speaker 1: dissociated slay slide into our dms at Like a Virgin
Speaker 1: for twenty sixty nine to let us know what's your
Speaker 1: favorite Lana song album? Are you feeling so Lana del
Speaker 1: Rey Vinyl right now? Also, make sure that you become
Speaker 1: a patron at patreon dot com slash like a Virgin.
Speaker 1: Also buy our merch You can find the links anywhere.
Speaker 1: Do you follow us, It's very easy to find. We
Speaker 1: have lots of cute stuff for you to where to
Speaker 1: show your virgivity or lack thereof. Next week we have
Speaker 1: honestly like one of I think one of our best
Speaker 1: episodes yet with special guest Frankie Grande, who we will
Speaker 1: be talking about Star Wars with and a lot of
Speaker 1: nerd shit. Oh yes, It is definitely an episode for
Speaker 1: gay nerds everywhere. It's it's an episode for gay nerds,
Speaker 1: it's an episode for arinators, it's an episode for people. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so don't miss don't miss that. In the meantime, follow
Speaker 1: us at Like a Virgin four twenty sixteen nine. I'm
Speaker 1: your co host Rose Damn. You. You can follow me
Speaker 1: anywhere online at Rose Damnu and I'm Fran. You can
Speaker 1: find me at France, squish Goo anywhere you like. Like
Speaker 1: a virginus my heart Radio production. Our producer is Huge
Speaker 1: Pinter was supporting from Lindsay Hoffman and Micky Tour until
Speaker 1: next week. Bye