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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bedel Cast. Caitlin, Yes, why would

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Speaker 1: you do this? I thought you were my friend and

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Speaker 1: I was just about to make you some coffee. Oh geez, well, women,

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Speaker 1: get back in the kitchen. Wait, am I your husband?

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Speaker 1: Or remind your friends? Okay? Right? And I didn't just

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Speaker 1: wanted to make you some coffee. Why would you do that?

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Speaker 1: Truly high comedy? Well, I was gonna try. I should

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Speaker 1: have added the word like, a word like podcast into

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Speaker 1: that there. There could have been a transformative joke and

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Speaker 1: it didn't come. Hey, but this is the Bedel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing I've been. I've been switched out with

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Speaker 1: an inferior model, and that's why I did that the

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Speaker 1: way I did. Yeah, well, I here's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: love you so much more now, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I've given up my dreams of being a photographer. And um,

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Speaker 1: I am wearing a sheer nightie at all times. She

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Speaker 1: cooks as good as she looks. Today's episode, I feel

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Speaker 1: like It's been a kind of a long time coming.

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Speaker 1: We've been getting this request pretty steadily over the years,

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Speaker 1: so I'm excited to talk about it. This is the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Toronte, and this is our podcast where we examine

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Speaker 1: movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test

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Speaker 1: simply as a jumping off point, and that what is

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Speaker 1: it even? I don't Oh my god, I've been I've

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Speaker 1: been turned into a robot, and I don't remember the

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Speaker 1: things I used to know. Oh my god. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: seventies robot is so much scarier than the two thousand

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Speaker 1: four robots. I'm just saying the alien eyes, Okay. The

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Speaker 1: Bectel Test is a media metric originally created by queer

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Speaker 1: cartoonists Alison Bechdel, is sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test that,

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Speaker 1: for the purposes of our show, requires that two people

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Speaker 1: of a marginalized gender with names talk to each other.

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Speaker 1: Uh for uh, Well, I guess we're kind of changing this.

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Speaker 1: They're talking to they have to talk to each other

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Speaker 1: about not a man. Uh. And we're we're switching it up,

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Speaker 1: aren't we? Caitlin, I mean that we have I guess,

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Speaker 1: two different ways because we used to say for two

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Speaker 1: lines of dialogue, but then we were making a change

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Speaker 1: so that it's like some sort of plot impactful interaction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so as to get rid of the like what would

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Speaker 1: you like for dinner? Cheese? Like, you know, like non

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Speaker 1: interactions kind of Yeah, I hadn't that was like something

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Speaker 1: that I was going to pay attention to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if we but if we want to implement it for

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Speaker 1: the whole show, I'm down. Yeah. I feel like it

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Speaker 1: could just be cannon because what There's been so many

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Speaker 1: movies over the years that have gotten away with some

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Speaker 1: really like heinous ones that like and sometimes they're really funny.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like, um, yeah, it should at least

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, I guess it's kind of the

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Speaker 1: like you'll know it when you hear it, Like it

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to be like influencing the next plot point,

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Speaker 1: but it's just a meaningful interaction. Whatever beautiful means. What

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Speaker 1: are interesting the movie to apply the test to, because

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Speaker 1: arguably the conversations they are having most of the time

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Speaker 1: are about what nefarious plans the men have and more

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Speaker 1: they're already robots, So if they've already been impacted by

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Speaker 1: the men, can they really have a conversation about anything

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Speaker 1: that isn't related to house cleaning. Let's take this, Let's

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Speaker 1: take this new version for a spin. Does sounds good

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Speaker 1: to me? And with that, let's properly introduce our our guests.

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Speaker 1: She is a sex edutainer. She is the owner of

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Speaker 1: Spectrum Boutique and author of Carnal Knowledge. It's Zoe Ligan

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Speaker 1: been so excited to talk about this, well, these films.

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Speaker 1: I'm a huge horror and thriller fan. And while the

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Speaker 1: two thousand's version of this film is hardly spooky, um,

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Speaker 1: you know it's it plays on some very real world fears.

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Speaker 1: You know that the men in our lives are secretly

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Speaker 1: plotting against us at all times, like could be some

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Speaker 1: truth to it? Hard to say. This is also one

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Speaker 1: of the I would say, one of the better Larry

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Speaker 1: and so, so okay, we're talking about Originally we were

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Speaker 1: going to just talk about the two thousand four movie,

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Speaker 1: but then we all watched both, so it's an episode

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Speaker 1: about both. But I would say that this is one

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Speaker 1: of my top Larry King cameos, not on b Larry

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Speaker 1: King in B movie level, I think that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the golden standard for Larry King cameos. But this was

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Speaker 1: a pretty good one. At the end, I thought, agree

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Speaker 1: that it's nowhere near his his peak, which is of

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Speaker 1: course in B movie. I mean, unbelievable Christopher Walkin Christopher.

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Speaker 1: I just so many good at Midler, so many good, good,

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Speaker 1: like wonderful actors in this two thousand four version, and like,

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Speaker 1: but they're just like they're not given very much. They

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Speaker 1: are not. So what is your history with the Stepford Wives? Um,

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Speaker 1: just overall any of the movies interacting with the property

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Speaker 1: in general. Absolutely. I watched the two thousand and four

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Speaker 1: movie probably right when it came out. I then was

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Speaker 1: such a fan that I owned it on DVD, watched

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Speaker 1: it many times. I was so excited to rewatch it

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Speaker 1: for this podcast because I knew it was going to

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Speaker 1: be one of those films that was like deeply embedded

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Speaker 1: in my psyche, and and it was exactly as I expected.

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Speaker 1: There was like little moments that like I like unlocked

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Speaker 1: parts of my memory, Like especially the Docy dough scene

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Speaker 1: where she's twirling out of control. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget this part O. My god. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen the seventy five version and decided to watch it

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Speaker 1: the night before. I watched the two thousand and four version,

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Speaker 1: and I am so glad I did, because what a

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Speaker 1: different film. I mean a premise. I mean the main

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Speaker 1: difference between a comedy and a horror is people living

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Speaker 1: versus people dying. So you know, very different outcomes, similar premise,

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Speaker 1: And now I want to read the book. I haven't

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Speaker 1: read it. Same yeah, same. This is the second adapted

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Speaker 1: I mean, like really famous adapted property from this author,

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Speaker 1: because this is the same author as Rosemary's Baby that

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Speaker 1: we've covered covered a couple of years ago. Um Ira

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Speaker 1: eleven so kind of an iconic writer who very often

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Speaker 1: wrote about the expectations of women. Um So there you go. Yeah, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with this stuff? For wise, I saw

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Speaker 1: the two thousand four movie at a drive in movie

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Speaker 1: theater in two thousand four when it came out. This

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Speaker 1: is a good drive in movie. Yeah yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: just graduated high school because it came out June two four,

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Speaker 1: so I think I probably like went with either some

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Speaker 1: friends or my mom, who knows, But I saw it

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Speaker 1: at the drive in, and I think that was the

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Speaker 1: only time I had ever seen it, and I did

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Speaker 1: not I had not seen the version, but I did

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Speaker 1: watch it the other night, so I'm fully prepped to

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Speaker 1: talk about others. Just oh my gosh, there's so much

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Speaker 1: to cover, Jamie, really, what about you mine? I think

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Speaker 1: kind of similar. I remember watching The two thousand four

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Speaker 1: when at a sleepover shortly after it came out. Good

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Speaker 1: sleepover movie, Yeah, yeah, and really liking it. And I

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Speaker 1: remember being like, oh, it's like, I don't know, being

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Speaker 1: like young enough that I was like, oh, it's Inspector

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Speaker 1: Gadget and Carella de Ville and the lady from Milan

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Speaker 1: Rouge and oh. I remember my aunt being like Faith

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Speaker 1: Hill in a movie because she well, really this was

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Speaker 1: the two thousand four. One was a fun rewatch for

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Speaker 1: the high volume of two thousand four themed jokes in it,

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Speaker 1: like a Vigo Mortenson joke, Orlando Bloom, Orlando Bloom, Meredith

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Speaker 1: Vieira Is has a really strong cameo like early two

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Speaker 1: thousands reality shows, just a kind of a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff I did that felt was like normal at the

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Speaker 1: time that I'm like, whoa, this is David. I'm really

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Speaker 1: getting old. Um. And then I saw the seventies when

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Speaker 1: over the summer, I kind of just like watched it

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Speaker 1: on a whim and like really really really liked it, um,

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Speaker 1: And it was like it was fun to go back

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Speaker 1: and watch again because they feel like it. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the strengths that these adaptations have are very different.

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Speaker 1: Where it's like it feels like the two thousand four

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Speaker 1: when the pacing of it, in the look of it,

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Speaker 1: it's like it keeps it moving. It's it goes quick.

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Speaker 1: The seventies one can drag a little bit. But then

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm are excited to talk about how the

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Speaker 1: like the two thousand four one got studio notes into

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Speaker 1: saying nothing by the end, Like God, I honestly forgot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I forgot how the two thousand four one ended so differently.

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Speaker 1: I was like, damn, they really thought they were doing

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Speaker 1: something there. That's wild. Um. Yeah, And I should read

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Speaker 1: the book, but I simply we don't read books on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Before we'll stay it again. I almost reread

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Speaker 1: the Da Vinci Code, but it wasn't It wasn't available

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Speaker 1: at the library, and they're too busy with your rhinestone Swordfish.

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Speaker 1: My rhine Stone Swordfish is killing me. Like I'm so,

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Speaker 1: I'm so late on so many things. But I have

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Speaker 1: you know, I have like two hours left of my

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Speaker 1: rent Stone Swordfish and then I can move on with

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Speaker 1: my life. So what I've done for this is I'll

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Speaker 1: recap the two thousand four one. But I feel like

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Speaker 1: then we can just go into in our discussion, we

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Speaker 1: can just like note the differences and similarities and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. That's that's my plan. Okay. So the two

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Speaker 1: thousand four adaptation of Stepford Wives opens on Joanna Eberhart.

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Speaker 1: That's Nicole Kidman. She's the president of a TV network.

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Speaker 1: She's literally dressed like Elizabeth Holmes. It's like the girl

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Speaker 1: Boss while she's in full girl Boss made. She's at

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Speaker 1: an awards show presenting a few like popular reality shows

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Speaker 1: that she has worked on. Um but everything goes hey

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Speaker 1: wire when a man who had been screwed over by

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Speaker 1: one of her programs, Yes, I can do better the show.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe they made Nedge s Neebly the Assassin

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Speaker 1: to move. What a plot line that just throw in there, really,

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Speaker 1: because hell, what happens is that he shows up and

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Speaker 1: tries to shoot Joanna and had also shot his wife

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Speaker 1: and several of her lovers that she met on the

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Speaker 1: reality And it's like all of all of Joanna's reality

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Speaker 1: shows are very early two thousands in that they're like

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Speaker 1: the theme is a very rigid gender binary like and

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Speaker 1: that's the whole show. But the movie wants you to think, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: look how empowering these shows are for women, But it's

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Speaker 1: like by early two thousands standards. So see, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: even sure. Like there was so many moments in this

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Speaker 1: movie where I was like, is this like I know

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Speaker 1: that they is it satire to them? Or is it

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Speaker 1: am I supposed to? Like? It's so totally confusing because

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Speaker 1: it's like looks like a satire. Everything is so over

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Speaker 1: the top and how it's stylized and presented, but then

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Speaker 1: like most of the story doesn't. It's so confusing because

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, they're like you know, like you know,

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Speaker 1: pair readying this era of reality TV at an eleven,

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Speaker 1: but like I don't. I didn't understand what my takeaway

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be. Right. Uh So, basically, the network

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Speaker 1: not wanting to be associated with Joanna any longer, they

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Speaker 1: fire her, and being fired gives her a nervous breakdown,

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Speaker 1: and her husband, her husband Uh Walter Cresby played by

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Speaker 1: Matthew Brodrick, comes to visit her in the hospital and

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Speaker 1: she tells him that she wants to get away and

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Speaker 1: start over. So Joanna Walter and their two kids moved

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Speaker 1: to Stepford, Connecticut, which is this extremely wealthy, extremely white,

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Speaker 1: gated community. They arrive and are greeted by Claire Wellington

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Speaker 1: played by Glenn Close. She shows them around the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and she points out the Men's Association, which is this

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Speaker 1: giant country club type place where the men of the

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Speaker 1: community hang out. Uh and then she says that the

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Speaker 1: women slash wives of the community hang out in this

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Speaker 1: day spa. So Joanna meets all of them and they

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Speaker 1: are all rocking this like nineteen fifties housewife aesthetic. They're creepy,

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Speaker 1: they're weird, except for one woman who she meets who

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Speaker 1: appears to be normal. Bobby marco Witz and her her

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Speaker 1: husband Dave played by John Lovetts and John high school

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Speaker 1: high um. And then they also meet a gay couple

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Speaker 1: Jerry and Roger, and Joanna and Bobby befriend Roger, but

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Speaker 1: then something happens at this Fourth of July party where

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Speaker 1: one of the wives Sarah Sunderson, that's Faith Hill, right,

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Speaker 1: I think, yes, yeah, I could not pick Faith Hill

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Speaker 1: out of a lineup to save my life. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of her thing. She is. My aunt was obsessed with

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Speaker 1: Faith Hill. So I've got I've got the radar, God,

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Speaker 1: i gotta got it. So Sarah Sunderson, she can't stop

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Speaker 1: spinning around this is and it's almost as if she's

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Speaker 1: a robot whose malfunction. That was another thing that struck

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Speaker 1: me about the two thousand four when they give it

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Speaker 1: away so early there's no mystery to it at all.

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Speaker 1: To find that in the first scene, you're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Faith Hill is clearly a robot. Well I have a

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Speaker 1: theory about that. So yeah, the main narrative device and

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Speaker 1: the two one is suspense, whereas the is mystery. And

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Speaker 1: for anyone, for any listeners out there who were like,

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Speaker 1: what's the difference, but satically suspenses when the audience knows

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Speaker 1: more than the characters, and mysteries, when the characters an

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Speaker 1: audience know the same amount of or no or don't

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Speaker 1: know the same amount of information, that distinction. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Um I teach the screenwriting classes. Anyway, I

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Speaker 1: would just starting. I mean, I just think that it

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Speaker 1: fails in this one. It's well. My my theory for

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Speaker 1: that is that because Stepford Wives as a concept was

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Speaker 1: already so familiar to everyone, there's no point in trying

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Speaker 1: to like make it a mystery in this in this

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Speaker 1: movie by two thousand four, even as a tween, I knew,

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Speaker 1: I knew what I was signing up for going into it, right,

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Speaker 1: So they were like, well, let's just do it suspense

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Speaker 1: because everyone already knows has a general idea of what

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Speaker 1: a Stepford Wife is. So that's I'm guessing why they

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Speaker 1: did that. But anyway, so Mike Wellington ak Christopher Walkin

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Speaker 1: shows up and he fixes Sarah Sunderson. Um, Joanna is like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck? Um, she's also wearing like all black

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Speaker 1: to this like Fourth of July party where that's covered

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Speaker 1: in pastels, and she looks she's like wearing like a

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Speaker 1: cocktail dress. That's right, I do love it. And then

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Speaker 1: Joanna's husband, Walter gaslights her and makes her think that

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Speaker 1: everything's fine and that she has to change herself and

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Speaker 1: fit into this community. So Joanna starts wearing pastels and

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Speaker 1: doing household chores. And then she, Bobby and Roger go

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Speaker 1: to visit Sarah Sunderson to see if she's all right,

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Speaker 1: and they find what is clearly a remote control that

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Speaker 1: controls Sarah. I would love to have one of these,

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Speaker 1: just like a replica prop at remote. It's a good

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Speaker 1: prop it is, yeah, But they're like and they're toying

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Speaker 1: around with it, and we see like Sarah b controlled

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Speaker 1: by it in the background, but they are not privy

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Speaker 1: to what's happening, so they still don't know. It's still suspense. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Walter does learn what's going on, which is that the

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Speaker 1: Stepford women are robots, but we find out that that's

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Speaker 1: not even true, that they've just been like nano chipped

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Speaker 1: in their brain way more way, more friendly too, because

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Speaker 1: you know, there is no death and murder occurring. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it just modified your brain. This is a comedy now, right,

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Speaker 1: because in the in the book and in the seventies version,

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Speaker 1: the wives are being murdered and then replaced with lookalike

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Speaker 1: and like androids that only have like huge pupils for eyes.

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Speaker 1: They're so scary. Yeah. Um, but anyway, so the Stepford

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Speaker 1: women or Stepford wives are being turned into these like

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Speaker 1: perfect little housewives that look hot and wait on the

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Speaker 1: men hand and foot. So Joanna and Bobby they know

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Speaker 1: something strange is going on, so they sneak into the

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Speaker 1: men's association to investigate, but they get caught and have

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Speaker 1: to run away. But then it seems that Roger, their

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Speaker 1: friend Roger, has gotten the like step for treatment because

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Speaker 1: he's suddenly completely different. He's running for political office now,

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Speaker 1: even though he's an architect. He's a yeah, he's suddenly

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Speaker 1: a Republican. Yeah, to appease his husband, yes, what is

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Speaker 1: the husband wanted from him all along? And another Republican

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Speaker 1: husband never? Oh god, so scary. And then Joanna is like,

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Speaker 1: that's it, Walter, we're leaving, and he's like, okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: leave tomorrow. And that night Joanna finds the remote control

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Speaker 1: with her name on it, and so she starts to

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Speaker 1: do some research and she discovers that all of these

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Speaker 1: Stepford women were formerly powerful career women. They were CEOs,

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Speaker 1: they were judges, there were a bunch of girl bosses.

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Speaker 1: But obviously they are completely different persona wise, looks wise,

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Speaker 1: et cetera from who they are now. So Joanna goes

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Speaker 1: to Warren Bobby, but oh no, they've already gotten to Bobby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Bobby's portrayed as like borderline horder when we first meet Bobby,

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Speaker 1: to really emphasize the dichotomy, I mean, you know, not

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Speaker 1: that bad. But there's this dramatic scene. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: where's the floor. I can't see the floor. It looks

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Speaker 1: like she's like a freshman in college. More like a

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Speaker 1: freshman in college. Yeah. Um. So the next thing that

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Speaker 1: Joanna knows, she is surrounded by all the men, and

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Speaker 1: Walter's like, I'm tired of you being better than me

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Speaker 1: at everything. And then Mike Wellington Christopher Walkin explains the

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Speaker 1: whole process or they take the women, they insert nano

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Speaker 1: chips into their brains and program them to be these

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Speaker 1: complacent trophy wife women. They then do the process to

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Speaker 1: Joanna and turn her into a Stepford wife, or so

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Speaker 1: we think this scene, this is where it's like, what

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Speaker 1: is going on? That scene? That scene where it's imagined

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Speaker 1: like I will get there. I was so I was

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Speaker 1: so frustrated by the end of this movie. Yes, but

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Speaker 1: then Walter, I guess, realizes the error of his ways

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Speaker 1: or something. They make out. They kiss, and which like

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Speaker 1: upsets me because I'm like, oh, you just learned your

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Speaker 1: husband wants to make you a robot and you just

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Speaker 1: go kiss him like this. But this is what wakes

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Speaker 1: him up, and he's like, oh, I shouldn't have gone

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Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, it's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I love my wife nothing yet, like for even that.

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Speaker 1: But it's like when they're sinking into the floor, we

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Speaker 1: have to think that Joanna does think she's about to

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Speaker 1: be turned into a row. There's telepathically communicated, and he's like, actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna It's like Jamie, a kiss is telepathic communication.

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Speaker 1: If it's true love between a husband and wife, of

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Speaker 1: course it's oh my god. I was like, how is

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Speaker 1: she not breaking up with him? He was so ready

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Speaker 1: to turn her into a robot? Like, so why is

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Speaker 1: it she running away? No consequences here, right, Oh there's yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about their um but anyway,

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Speaker 1: so there's this big ball that happens, and Walter speaks

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Speaker 1: away and hacks into the main frame and starts reversing

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Speaker 1: all of these stufford programming in the women's brains, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that Joanna had not actually been transformed

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Speaker 1: into a Stepford wife. She was just faking it too.

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Speaker 1: I guess, create a diversion. Um. And then Mike Wellington

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Speaker 1: is like, well to you suck and he goes to

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Speaker 1: attack him. But then Joanna hits Mike not coming. Um.

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Speaker 1: She she knocks Mike Wellington Christopher Walkins head off because

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Speaker 1: it turns out he's a robot. This was more fun.

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Speaker 1: This was like more fun. Yeah, this this is a

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Speaker 1: fun moment. So it turns out that Claire Wellington had

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Speaker 1: programmed her robot husband Mike to do her bidding. The

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Speaker 1: whole Stepford wife thing was her idea. She like explains

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Speaker 1: her master plan and her motivations and stuff. It mostly

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Speaker 1: makes sense kind of. How she managed to get away

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Speaker 1: with a double homicide and then take over a small

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Speaker 1: town is just we don't know. We don't know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. You have to hand it to her. Women

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Speaker 1: are powerful, um and I have fruit feminist icon when

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Speaker 1: you think about it. Um. Then she accidentally electrocutes herself

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Speaker 1: to death I think by kissing Christopher Watkins robot head.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the disembodied head. Yes, this is hilarious. Then

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Speaker 1: we cut two six months later, where Joanna, Bobby and

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Speaker 1: Roger are guests on Larry King at the rest known

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Speaker 1: as b Larry King be Larry King. Um. They've done

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Speaker 1: this whole like expose about the Stepford community. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then we cut to the men of Stepford now doing

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Speaker 1: all of the domestic chores because they're like under house arrest.

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Speaker 1: And then now they they're the ones who go grocery

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Speaker 1: shopping bern the And let's take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: then we'll come back to discuss and we're back. We're back.

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Speaker 1: Should we go over just kind of like the some

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Speaker 1: of the broader differences between the two movies before we

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Speaker 1: kind of jump in because they Kaitlie, you like broke

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Speaker 1: down perfectly how the genres are different and how it's

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Speaker 1: you know, unless you had rent the book, you know,

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Speaker 1: you would go into the movie not knowing that the

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Speaker 1: women is robots now and so it really like builds

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Speaker 1: that tension throughout of like, well what is going on here?

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Speaker 1: But I really like what I liked so much more

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Speaker 1: about the one is that you get to like know

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Speaker 1: the people who live there in a meaningful way. And

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Speaker 1: so it's it just like I think that that's like

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Speaker 1: the main that and the way that it ends is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is clearly satire. This is clearly saying something. Because

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Speaker 1: at the end of the seventy five movie, um, there

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Speaker 1: is no secret Walter was good the whole time, and

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Speaker 1: she's turned into a Stepford wife. That's how it ends.

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Speaker 1: She's murdered by her alien double, which is super fucking scary,

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Speaker 1: and she becomes a Stepford wife and it is like this,

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Speaker 1: you know, commentary on womanhood at this time, and there's

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Speaker 1: you know it. It certainly has its flaws, but at

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Speaker 1: least it's like there's a clear point, uh there's I

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Speaker 1: feel like you got a lot more out of the

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Speaker 1: Joanna Bobby friendship in the seventy one as well, because

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Speaker 1: they are like actively investigating what's going on for the

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Speaker 1: whole like they like try to start a women's club

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Speaker 1: and they and I also thought that Joanna's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious what you what you both think here. I

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Speaker 1: thought that Joanna's job situation made more sense to me

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Speaker 1: in the seventy one as well, Like, I think it's

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00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: funny that they chose for her to be a high

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Speaker 1: powered reality show producer in the two thousand four one,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't really come in anywhere like where in

402
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Speaker 1: the seventies one. Joanna isn't a aspiring photographer, and it

403
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: felt to me kind of like she she was not

404
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: yet successful. She's kind of nagged by her husband for

405
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: having this dream. She's insecure about it, and it's like

406
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: a part of her character. And then she she like

407
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: gets closer to her goals, and the closer she gets

408
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: to her goals, the more her husband resents it like

409
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: it just has like an active part of the story.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there weren't as many women's CEOs in nineteen Also,

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Speaker 1: I think you're a percent right that it's a sign

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00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: of the times and how it was portrayed. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: other thing is the one thing I do like about

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Speaker 1: the two thousand four version, which, as you would expect

415
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: from a movie made in two thousand four, doesn't get

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00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: this quite right or go all the way. But the

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00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: two thousand four version focuses more on like the commentary

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00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: being made, because both movies are providing commentary to varying

419
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: degrees of you know, efficacy and success. But the two

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00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: thousand four version focuses on male fragility and like comments

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00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: on male fragility in terms of like the men feel

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00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: inferior to and emasculated by their powerful wives, so they

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Speaker 1: basically turn the women into these complacent, trophy wife like

424
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: domestic robots with no personality and no autonomy so that

425
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: they can feel superior again. And that's like a very

426
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: real thing because you know, the patriarchy conditions men to

427
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: think that they should be like superior and if they, like,

428
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: if they make less money or if they don't have

429
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: as impressive or powerful as a job, then they are

430
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: inferior to you know, the women in their lives. So yeah,

431
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: there's a power imbalance in the two thousand and four

432
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: one that doesn't exist in the seventies version, right, And

433
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: I think that's like an interesting and worthwhile thing to

434
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: comment on. But again, like the two thousand four one

435
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: makes a bunch of other really weird choices that make

436
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: this like not the most effective. Jerry, Yeah, I felt

437
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: like on this rewatch, I felt I was kind of bummed.

438
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: I left like not liking the two thousand four one

439
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: as much as I feel like I poked a little

440
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: my little nostalgia balloon for it, because it's just I

441
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: feel like we we really don't know that much about

442
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: any of the characters to the point where it's like,

443
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: even when they're making those like really you know, clear

444
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: points about like you know, Walter feels emasculated and like

445
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: all this other stuff, it just the pacing of how

446
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: we got there felt really strange. Like the way the

447
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: characters reacted to things was like just kind of I

448
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: don't know, it felt off where Joanna, you know, Walter

449
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: is like I need you to completely change who you are,

450
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: and Joanna, who we are led to believe is this

451
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: like really headstrong person, is like, oh my god, you're

452
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: right okay, and then all of a sudden, like Walter

453
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: flips to super filling really quickly, and it's like I

454
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: just wish I knew a little more about both of

455
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: them to understand like how that happened. It just felt like,

456
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Even even though it's it makes sense

457
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: that you need to update the roles and try, you know,

458
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: try to like reflect where gender roles were at in

459
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: the year the movies being made, like of course it

460
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: should be different from the seventies one, but it just

461
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: felt like, I don't know, like things just happened so

462
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: like clunquily, like when he was were either of you

463
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: thrown off when Matthew Brodrick was like, you can't wear

464
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: black anymore, and and then she's like, okay, I guess

465
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm never going to wear black again. I'm like, this

466
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: isn't who I was told this character was. Like. He says,

467
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: only high powered, neurotic castrating Manhattan career bitches where black,

468
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: It's that what you want to be. And she says,

469
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: ever since I was a little girl, which is funny.

470
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, that's like girl Boss canon. Okay, that's horrific,

471
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: but also it's like who funck Like it's I don't know,

472
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: it's it seems like and I guess. Reading about the

473
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: production of the two thousand four one, it seems it

474
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: seems like Frank Oz who also this movie was directed

475
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: by Yoda Um crystal Um, it seems like he really

476
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: wanted to go full satire in lines like that, You're like, okay,

477
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: that's like where the full satire is, but then it

478
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: it Scholarly journal Wikipedia indicates that Paramount was like, really

479
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: not okay with the level of satire he wanted to

480
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: do in the level of over the toppiness, and so

481
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: they made him change the entire ending, which kind of

482
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: undercuts everything. And I would, I mean it, I bet

483
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: that there's like a funny satirical movie that was like

484
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 1: shot but it just like was not really ended up

485
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: on the chopping floor. Whatever's bummer because it's like there's

486
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: a ton of like potent. I would. I would like

487
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: to understand their relationship a little better because it it

488
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: end up kind of like I don't know. I liked

489
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: that scene where Walter was like, I feel emasculated and

490
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: threatened by you, And I liked that Joanna in that

491
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: scene didn't apologize and she was like, yeah, like you're

492
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: really lucky to be married to me. You're lucky and

493
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: I am better at sex and I was not going

494
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: to didn't mine that the line I remember from the

495
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: original watching as well, that's so funny. I just wish

496
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: I understood more about their relationship, or their relationship made

497
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: more sense to me. I don't know, because like, how

498
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: could the husband turn on you know, it's like if

499
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: we're going to believe, okay, like he could turn on

500
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: her in this instant, Like I want to know more

501
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: context for what that relationship was like if they have

502
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: kids together, Clearly they've been together a few years at least,

503
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: and they also disappear their children in this one, I

504
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: was like, what did you even bother having them? But also,

505
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: like Walter, it doesn't make sense because he leaves his

506
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: also very high powered job as a TV network vice president.

507
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: He's just like one step below her. Also, if he

508
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: leaves that job, how do they afford living in this mansion?

509
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: But anyway, like why would he got good severance after

510
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: ed sneeply came after? But if his whole thing was

511
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: like I want to be more powerful than my wife, like,

512
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't he keep his powerful anyway? More importantly, I think

513
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: the problem here is that in the two thousand four version,

514
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: which I didn't see in the nineteen version, was that

515
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: Joanna's character is so wildly inconsistent in the two thousand

516
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: four versions because like, first she gets fired and then

517
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: she's like, maybe the man who tried to shoot me

518
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: was right, Maybe I've become the wrong kind of woman,

519
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: And it's just like, okay, well, like there's nothing wrong

520
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: with self reflection, but like for you to be like

521
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: the man who shot me he was right, uh, is

522
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: because she's unbothered right after it happened, as well as

523
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: unbothered to like two minutes after, she's like, oh my god,

524
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm totally fine, going like you need to sit down, honey,

525
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: just like capitalism has enshrouded me and a bulletproof vest

526
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: of money. Like it's so I I thought that maybe

527
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: what my guest was of what they were going for

528
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: was that like, she's a very high powered executive, but

529
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: she also has this deep insecurity, which is like that's

530
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: worth exploring, but it just it doesn't come through, and

531
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: it does come out as like inconsistent, right because the

532
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: next thing is they arrive in Stepford, she like right

533
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: away notices that things are weird, especially with the women,

534
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: but Walter's like, no, things are actually really normal, and

535
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: like part of this is like I don't want to

536
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: fault her because she's very clearly being gas lit by

537
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: her husband, but she just keeps kind of flip flopping

538
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: where like then she's like, Okay, you're right, I'm a mess.

539
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start, you know, wearing pink and doing and

540
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: like baking cupcakes. But then a few scenes later she's like, no, way,

541
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: things are really weird. And then a few scenes later

542
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I'm going to join the book club

543
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: and then a few scenes later she's like, no, I

544
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: should investigate, Like it's just like she's just going on

545
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,959
Speaker 1: this like loop of doing one eighties all the time.

546
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: But in the version, the Joanna character is like consistently

547
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: like something is really fucked up about this community. She

548
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: doesn't like ever waiver from trying to figure out what's

549
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: going on or like thinking that something is amiss. So

550
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: I think it's just like kind of a poor writing

551
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: choice to make Joanna so inconsistent. I agree, even though

552
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, in the seventies when we're clearly

553
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: in you know, second wave feminism, and there are so

554
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: many elements of it that kind of dated. But it's

555
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: I just liked her journey a little more because it

556
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: was even though there are moments in the two or

557
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: in the nine seventies one where she does kind of

558
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: try to appease her husband. She's like, I'm sorry, like

559
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: I I didn't, but it makes sense in context at least,

560
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: Like it's it doesn't seem like she's just like doing

561
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: a one eighty for no reason. It's like, oh, she

562
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 1: feels guilty because her husband is telling her she should

563
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: feel guilty, and like just kind of this like the

564
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: subtle negging that takes place in their relationship over time,

565
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: I thought was like pretty effective and like more realistic

566
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: than than you know, how the two thousand four characters

567
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: interact with each other one. It's also set up in

568
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: such a way where the husband Walter was plotting all

569
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: along to have her turned into a robot. There's this

570
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: revelation in the one that he'd already put a down

571
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: payment on the house before she had even signed off

572
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: on the house, and she brings that up as you know,

573
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 1: their dirty laundry that they've clearly, you know, been having

574
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: arguments about. But it's very clear that he was pulling

575
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: strings to influence her to move out to Stepford, whereas

576
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and four one it seems like,

577
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, there was no ulterior motive all along, and

578
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: it just they just stumble into this world of robots

579
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: instead of like, I'm gonna blackmail my wife and convince

580
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: her to move out to the country. And also we

581
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: don't really have any contexts for as to why they

582
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: leave New York in the one. We see this scene

583
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: in the beginning of one where they're loading into the car.

584
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: Somewhat random person is carrying a mannequin around in New

585
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: York City and one of the kids goes like, I

586
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: just saw a guy carrying a naked lady daddy or

587
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: something like that, and one of them goes, Yep, that's

588
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: why we're moving to Stepford, so we don't have to

589
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: see that anymore. Like it's like the depraved city of

590
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: New York is what has scared them away into the

591
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: safe suburbs. Almost. Yeah, I kind of was wondering. It

592
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: was like I wonder I sort of assumed that that

593
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: was like a commentary of the time of like the

594
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: suburban culture of the seventies and like the ways that

595
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: people would like the reasons people would have for justifying

596
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: a move like that, and even it's like it's interesting

597
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: to watch Joanna kind of slowly be like I didn't

598
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: want or that. She's kind of right away like I

599
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: don't really want to be here and like I can't

600
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: pursue my dreams the way I want to here, and

601
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: he's kind of like, no, no, no, you did this

602
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: was like basically your idea, and this is a good idea,

603
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: and you can take pictures wherever, so like shut up

604
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: and go to bed. Yeah, we can make a dark

605
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: room for you, like right right, and like it's I

606
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: don't know, I thought that. I mean, the one is

607
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: like a William Goldman script, so it's like also, I think,

608
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: just in the hands of a really icon incapable writer.

609
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: But like the deterioration of their relationship is more trackable.

610
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't understand why she's married to him,

611
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: but I never understand why, why why straight couples are married.

612
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: So it's like that's kind of a wash. But in

613
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: the in the two thousand four one, I totally agree.

614
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: So it's like the fact that Walter is not clued

615
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: in from the beginning kind of like makes his character

616
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: really confusing, Like I don't know it just they go

617
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: from playing battle bots in the men's club, they literally

618
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: have these battle bot robots, and then directly following that

619
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: and again in the two thousand and four one, another

620
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: one of the guys like, hey, let me show you

621
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: a party trick. Hey, wife, come on over here, and

622
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: then we have the infamous scene that is what stands

623
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: out in my mind the most from my original viewing,

624
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: is inserting a credit card into the wife's now a card,

625
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, and with drawing cash all of a sudden,

626
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: all the men look to Walter to like see how

627
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: he's going to react, because this is the big reveal

628
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: like look our wives or robots um, which also makes

629
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: no sense with the fact that they're not really robots,

630
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: they just chips in their brain. But so then after

631
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: a long pregnant pause, he goes she she gives singles,

632
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: and then everyone like you know, bursts into laughter because oh,

633
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: thank god he's one of the boys and he gets it. Yeah,

634
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: And then with him he he they give him this

635
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: redemption arc because even though he's been gaslighting and just

636
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: awful to Joanna throughout the whole movie in both movies,

637
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 1: but I'm talking specifically about the two thousand four version.

638
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: He again, will you touch on this, but so weird

639
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: that Joanna is just like willingly going to go down

640
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: into like whatever the the lab or she is going

641
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: to be turned into a Stepford wive. She's just like, well,

642
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: I kissed my husband and I guess now she just yeah.

643
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: So for her to like again so much, that's another

644
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: part of the inconsistency of her character, where like she's

645
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: going like, oh, something's weird. Actually no, I should assimilate

646
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: and then to the point where she's like, all right,

647
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go down here and get turned into a

648
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 1: Stepford wive. Whatever. I guess, I accept my fate. Yeah,

649
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: And then at the end where she got I forget

650
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: what the exchanges. But it's so corny and like Nicole

651
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: Kidman's like that's a man talking about did not turn

652
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: her into a robot? Like, oh my god, because he's

653
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: a real man. Yeah, what is this the artist stick?

654
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: Where he using? What a disaster? Yeah? This is the

655
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: bar is that's so low for our husbands. Now it's subterranean.

656
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: It's in the robot basement. Is where the bars. That

657
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: made me furious because so I like, I get I well,

658
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but I understand why this choice

659
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: was made from like a screenwriting point of view, where

660
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: like they need the reveal that Joanna isn't actually a

661
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: Stepford wife, she was just faking it. But what that

662
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: does is it gives Walter the opportunity to like basically

663
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: redeem himself and then like it just gives him more

664
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: agency because he's the one going around and like liberating

665
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: all of the women while Joanna is just kind of

666
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: like sidelined. And then like you said, like it gives

667
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: He's like, I didn't marry someone something from Radio Shack,

668
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: and then Christopher Walkin goes like, oh, that's a shame.

669
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: And then Nicole Kidman is like, no, that's a man.

670
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: Why should make her say that? But yeah, the movie

671
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: wants you to be like wow, feminist icon Walter, what

672
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: a hero, and we're like no, Like why is he

673
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: getting this redemption arc? He's a piece of shit. It's

674
00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: so like it's I I don't even super mind. It's

675
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: like we're going into this the two thousand's one with

676
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: with like a cultural understanding of what a Stepford wife is.

677
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: We need to find a new way to like the

678
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: reveal can't be that their robots, because we know that

679
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: if we go to see the movie. But this choice

680
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: specifically is like, oh my god. Like the early two

681
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: thousands was such a I feel like, as a lot

682
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: of media is coming out right now, the late nineties

683
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: and early two thousands was such a horrible time for

684
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: for really like any marginalized group. But it's like stuff

685
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: like this the I'm like, wow, we were like thirty

686
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: years prior, there was so much more productive discussion in

687
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: this same story about you know, gender roal expectations, Equal

688
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Rights Amendment was happening right then. The book was written

689
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: in seventy two, and you know, I don't know when

690
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: one was filmed, but you know, there was this discussion

691
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: and like revival of the Equal Rights Amendment for the

692
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: first time since the twenties. And you know, here we are,

693
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,959
Speaker 1: and there really hasn't been any revisitation of the Equal

694
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 1: Rights Amendment up until the Harvey Weinstein Me Too era.

695
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: So it's almost like in the early two thousands there

696
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: was this idea that we were so much further ahead

697
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: than we really were. I think it's interesting because it's like,

698
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: I so we've covered these two IRA eleven adaptations, and

699
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: it's his I really like, I don't know anything about

700
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: him personally. I hope he's not horriful he's dead. But

701
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: in terms of like these two stories, I do think

702
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: his approach is pretty consistent in that he writes these

703
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: stories that are that make pretty sharp commentary about the

704
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: expectations of women in this time. And also in his stories,

705
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: the women normally lose. They like fight valiantly against the

706
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: oppressive patriarchal force, and in both stories they fail, and

707
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: it's and We like had this discussion a couple of

708
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: years ago on the Resemaries Baby episode where it's like

709
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: we were like, well, what does that mean? And it's like,

710
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: I think it just kind of unfortunately was like a

711
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: reflection of a lot of efforts for equality, and like

712
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: it's not that you know, Rosemary or Joanna were not capable,

713
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: and it wasn't that they were like you know, not intelligent,

714
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: were able to figure out what was going on. It

715
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: was the great point in both of those stories. Even

716
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: when they figure out what's going on, they just have

717
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: that knowledge and then they're crushed by the opposing force anyways,

718
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: which is like really bleak, but it feels like a

719
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: more like it's just saying something, whereas like this update

720
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: of the story is like saying what I don't know,

721
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 1: here's what it's saying. It's saying that because what happens

722
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: is Claire Wellington becomes the villain, this mastermind of this

723
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: project in her in her motivation, she explains her motivation

724
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: and it's then m my, my husband cheated on me

725
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: with a younger woman, so I had to kill them,

726
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: and then I had to punish every woman I've ever

727
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: met ever since then I liked this better when it

728
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: was vill mkelly in Chicago. That I mean, and I

729
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: see what they're trying to if you if I want

730
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: to give them credit and be like, oh, what's this

731
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: commentary saying it's like, yes, women can be a huge

732
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: opposing force, uh, you know, against the liberation of and feminism, etcetera.

733
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: Um so totally, but just like such poor execution if

734
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: that was indeed the intended takeaway, right, yeah, we're like

735
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: even like story wise, like I honestly it's like corny

736
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: and it's not really accomplishing what it's trying to. But

737
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: the Glenn Close reveal at the end, I'm like, fine, sure,

738
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: Like it kind of reminded me of like the caitl

739
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: was was the like the Cabin in the Woods reveal

740
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: at the end where you're like, it was this woman

741
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: the tie, isn't it Sgourney Weaver at the end of

742
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: Cabin in the Woods where she was like, I'm the

743
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: bad I'm the spy, and you're like, alright, I guess, um,

744
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: like it's not. It's Glenn Close and she's clutching you know,

745
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Christopher Watkins like decapitated head, like android head, exposed wires, sparking,

746
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: which makes no sense again if it's brain chips, Like,

747
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: how does any of this happen against gotta suspend your

748
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: disbelief here. Yeah, it's so I just wish like even

749
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: story wise there unless I truly was like watching this

750
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: at zero percent, uh, Like I don't. I didn't feel

751
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: like there were really many clues given that it just

752
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: come for me. It came like out of nowhere. I

753
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: was like, like, there's no foreshadowing for that twist, which

754
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: you would think the movie would benefit from. But yeah,

755
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: like Zoe, you were saying, there are women who are

756
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: very much a part of like upholding rigid gender roles

757
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: and like patriarchal standards, like that is unfortunately something that

758
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: still happens. But and I don't know if this I

759
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: don't think this movie is even trying to comment on that,

760
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: or if it is, it doesn't know how because like

761
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: Joanna is doing the same thing with her fucking girl

762
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: Boss acts. It's like inadvertent perhaps, Well it's that thing

763
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: that we always talk about where like there have been

764
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of movies written by men that show women

765
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: being just like really petty and jealous and in competition

766
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: and like catty toward each other, but they don't take

767
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: a like even step one to examine why that might be.

768
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: And they're just like, well, women are petty, so obviously

769
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: they hate each other. It's the same kind of thing

770
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: were like. And I mean I don't even know enough

771
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: about this about like why certain people, you know, just

772
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: have ideologies or like vote in certain ways that are

773
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: in direct opposition of their own self interests. Like that's

774
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: a very complicated issue. I have theories about why, but

775
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: like it's a lot of factors involved. Yeah, yeah, there's

776
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Um, but this movie only goes

777
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: so far as to say, well, Glenn Cloak Claire Wellington

778
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: loves romance and beauty and Chiffon and her husband cheated

779
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: on her. So yeah, so now she just wants to

780
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: turn every woman into a beautiful robot lady who will

781
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: never misbehave it says, yeah, Like it's a very like

782
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: I was like, we should have put this justification through

783
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: a few more drafts, like because it's I don't if

784
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: we have to get to Glenn close is the big bed,

785
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: like and we have this like woman who's working against

786
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: the interests of other women. Find but it's like just

787
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: come up with a different story that was such a

788
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: week justification. But I guess she dies two seconds later.

789
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's

790
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: so it's like, so this movie is so like campy

791
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: and fun and then but then plot wise it's so boring.

792
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: I'm confusing. It doesn't make sense. Very yeah, bizarre movie.

793
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: I did appreciate the Glenn closest character says that she

794
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: created robot Mike because she says that she here's what

795
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: it is. She kills real life like her husband and

796
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: like her husband's mistress or whatever, and then she turned

797
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: she does create a robot because she was like an

798
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: engineer and brain surgeon or something like that in the

799
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: former world Higher and another another girl boss, I guess.

800
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: But she another also like vilifying a woman in stem Um.

801
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say, yeah, um. But so she

802
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: creates a robot version of her husband, So I think

803
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 1: he's the only one who's like a real robot except

804
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: for the A T M Lady. I don't know if

805
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: it's confused, we're boob inflation lady. Oh is it faith? Yeah?

806
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 1: I think it's faith. Like she there's when they find

807
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: her remote they like play around with the buttons and

808
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: in the background they're not able to see this, but

809
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: Faith's boobs are like inflating and deflating and like being

810
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: controlled by it. I think my impression was that they

811
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: were all robot, Like it's not all the men because

812
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, the men are next, but yeah, he's

813
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: like the one male robot. All the women are becoming

814
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: robots and then she's gonna but to the men. I mean,

815
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, and like it just this. I guess,

816
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: like I kind of struggle to understand where the two

817
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: thousands movie lands on women in position of powers in

818
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: the end, like it is it just again a friend

819
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: that's really inconsistent because it's like, well, everyone in the

820
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: movie seems to agree that um neutralizing a powerful woman's

821
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 1: brain is bad, but it's also implied that Joanna being

822
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: really into her job was bad, and it's implied that

823
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: or it's like, I mean, the Glenn closest character clearly

824
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: feels and there's no time to challenge it because then

825
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: the movie is over that her being too invested in

826
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: her career lead her to murder somebody, which is something

827
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: that happens to Glenn close in movies all the time.

828
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: I like, I feel for her so much. She's like

829
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: just thrust into the fatal attraction ship all the time

830
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. I it is super confusing about like

831
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: are these women just like humans who have been nano chipped?

832
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: Because when like Matthew Brodwick's character liberates them at the end,

833
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: they seem to like go back to their human self.

834
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: It's like the technology disengages all of a sudden, which

835
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: is why you know it can't be both. So I

836
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: don't know. So which what isn't movie robot? I don't know,

837
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: But I did appreciate when Claire Wellington is like explaining

838
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: her whole master plan. She's like, well, then I created

839
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: my robot husband, Mike because I needed a man that

840
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: other men would listen to. And it's like fair. Yeah,

841
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: that reminds me of um oh, that story with Penelope

842
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: gaze in from like five or so years ago when

843
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: she was starting her clothing or when she was starting

844
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: when she was working on a project called which C,

845
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: which is like a UM shopping site, like as an experiment,

846
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: she and her business partner um and I might be

847
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: butchering this anecdote, but she and her business partner, like

848
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: didn't experiment where they answered some vendors as themselves and

849
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: others with this fake male CEO they made up. And

850
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: the responsiveness that they got to the I think like

851
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: they they would just sign their emails Ken and the

852
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: way and the white people would talk to them was

853
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: like different way, better results, and they're like, thank God

854
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: for Ken, because I mean, as a CEO myself, I

855
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: can't tell you how many emails I get that begin

856
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: dear sir all the time, you know, and it will

857
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: be like a mass email, but it's always dear sir,

858
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, oh my gosh, yeah. Or people, you know,

859
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: people make all kinds of assumptions about me as a CEO,

860
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: Like you know, people think, oh, you know, I must

861
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 1: have a money man, or oh, like, who's the guy

862
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: who need this happen? You know, it's it's wild all

863
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: the assumptions people make about you so frustrating. There was

864
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: that other story. There's this story that came out where

865
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: like a man and a woman had the same job

866
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: at the same company, but people were always getting frustrated

867
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: with the woman because she didn't seem to be as

868
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: efficient as her like male counterpart. And then they looked

869
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,439
Speaker 1: into why this was, and it was because her correspondence

870
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: with people, because people like, we're like, oh, I'm dealing

871
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: with a woman, so I have to like, I don't

872
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: trust her that she's like saying the right thing or like.

873
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: So there was just so much more like back and forth,

874
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,479
Speaker 1: whereas when the man was corresponding with with people, people

875
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 1: were just inclined to be like, all right, if that's

876
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: what you say, then okay. Um, And so he was

877
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: able to be more efficient in his job. That's not

878
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: even yeah, that's not even God. I hate that. There

879
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: are so many examples of this that it's approvable track record.

880
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: Well that was so okay, good points for points for um,

881
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: what's their name, Beef Wellington? Uh for that for that.

882
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: But but that's almost just like a throwaway line. Um. Anyway,

883
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

884
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: for more discussion. And we're back. I really want to

885
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: talk about the inclusion of a gay couple in the

886
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: two thousand and four one, which there is not in

887
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: the seventies. It's Tina Louise in the seven Yeah. I again,

888
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: while I have not read the book, I was researching

889
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: the differences between the book and the movie, and the

890
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 1: book actually has a plot point that was left out

891
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: of the seventies rendition. So in the book there is

892
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: the first and only black residence of Stepford, Royal and Ruthan,

893
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: and they are not included in the two thousand and

894
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: four one either. That plot line has changed into Roger

895
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: and Jerry. And while I think it was likely chosen

896
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: to change that because it was two thousand and four,

897
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: like the cultural moment of talking about lgbt Q plus rights, etcetera,

898
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: but that's also like, clearly we know that the issue

899
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: of racism I personally have felt would I wanted, I mean,

900
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: I didn't want to see that tackled certainly by either

901
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: of these adaptations. But I did find it in interesting

902
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: that there is a very clear point made about the

903
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: whiteness of Stepford in the book that seems to be

904
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: completely left out of both film adaptations. That's why I

905
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: wasn't aware of that. It's the in terms of the

906
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: I think that the fact that there is a black

907
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: family moving to Stepford is in one like it's mentioned

908
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: in the seventies mention. But then that's okay, that makes

909
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: more sense to me because it's like then you never

910
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: meet those characters. Uh, that's that sucks. I mean, it's

911
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: not I mean, obviously, Hira Leven is probably not the

912
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: most qualified person to be um leading that discussion, but

913
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: the fact that there were black characters and obviously like

914
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: the extreme whiteness of the Connecticut suburbs, it's like there

915
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: is more than enough opportunity to have a productive discussion

916
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: there if either of these movies were actually the hiring

917
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: black creators that could speak to it. Um, which neither did. Um,

918
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: that's that's so frustrating. Yeah, I mean, and again it's like, yeah,

919
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: they tried to change it into shining a light on

920
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: homophobia instead of shining a light upon racism, but it

921
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: really didn't even have that much to say about homophobia,

922
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 1: to be quite honest. It was just like, oh, let's

923
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: randomly include a gay couple, okay, and in fact it

924
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: just does a homophobic thing where the movie suggests that

925
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: it's like kind of reinforces this problematic notion that in

926
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: a gay couple there's still like one person's the man

927
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: and the other person is the wife, because like Roger

928
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: is kind of like foisted into this like Stepford wife

929
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: role because he's he gets the treatment, he gets changed

930
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: his his husband husband, Um, uh, what's I forget his name,

931
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: Jerry like wants him to like tone down his just

932
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: like more conservative. Yeah, and like he wants him to

933
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: kind of assimilate into this straight, heteronormative Stepford lifestyle. This

934
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: made my head hurt because it was like the way

935
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: that Roger was treated. First of all, he's played by

936
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: Roger Bart, who is a street actor who has played

937
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: a number of iconic, very stereotypical gay roles. He also played, um,

938
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: the I don't remember the name of the character, but

939
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: the guy from the Producers, the gay character in the Producers,

940
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: that's also Roger Bart. So I don't know, it's I'm

941
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: sure that there's a wide variety of opinions, but it

942
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: seems that Roger Bart is very commonly cast to play

943
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: a stereotypical gay character. He is not a gay actor,

944
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: So there's there's some ship going on there. Uh. And

945
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: and the fact that there's just like Roger as he's

946
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: written in the movie is like a Vario stereotyped character. Um, definitely.

947
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: And then it's sometimes the person making the point of

948
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: like like when he's post stepforded and now he's a

949
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: gay Republican. Uh. Then the person who makes the point

950
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: of like, wow, this character was really stereotyped. Are the

951
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: people you're supposed to be angry at. Like there's that

952
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: moment where Walter is kind of gaslighting Joanna because Joanna

953
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: is like Rogers different, like they got to Roger and

954
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: he's like, well, what do you mean. You know it's

955
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: a don't stereotype him, blah blah blah, and it's like

956
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: it was so weird, like the flaming hoops. Yeah, it

957
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: was mind boggling. An interesting thing that I read reading

958
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: about the differences between book and movie, and this is

959
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: from a blog called Beyond the Front Cover. It seems

960
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: like one commentary that is made in the book, and

961
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: again I haven't read it, so this is just this

962
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: blog's take on it, is that ruth Anne, the black

963
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: woman who has moved to Stepford, thinks that the wives

964
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: are being cold to her, not because they have turned

965
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: into robots, but because she is black. So she believes

966
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: that the reason they are so anti social is because

967
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: she's black, not because they are robots, which I don't

968
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: know how I would be very curious to see how

969
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: that's written into the book. Again summary from a blog

970
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: I literally just googled. But you know, that seems like

971
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: it's more than just a cursory like, oh, let's just

972
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: randomly include a non white couple, let's include a non

973
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: straight couple, etcetera. It seems like maybe there was a

974
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: little bit of thought put into it. But again, I

975
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: have to read the book to get to do my homework.

976
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: It seems like, I mean, it's like, yeah, again, we

977
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: were not a book reading podcast here, but it does.

978
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: It does seem like Ira Levin has a good track

979
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: record as a writer of including social issues thoughtfully, and

980
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: it's it's so telling that, yeah, that that was just

981
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: in both nineteen and two thousand four, like had included

982
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: we're not gonna we're just gonna skip that. I don't know,

983
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: I I it's really hard to watch movies with and

984
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: let's be real, so many like look at the Golden

985
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: Globes or the Oscars, it's all white nominees. But it's

986
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: like watching these films that you know, whiteness is such

987
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: a large part of the oppressive suburb conformity, and that

988
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 1: is just a whole chunk of it completely left out right,

989
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: which is frustrating because the setup of this story is

990
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: uniquely suited to comment on like oppressive whiteness. You're in

991
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: a Connecticut, a rich Connecticut suburbs, Like where is a

992
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: better place to kind of make those points? Which is

993
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: where I feel like it. You know, even when both

994
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: of these movies are making the occasional like feminist point,

995
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: it's still very centered in upwardly mobile white women the

996
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: way that you know, most movies UM tend to be

997
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: when they get this far, Like it's just really it's

998
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: I kept writing down, like this is the perfect setting

999
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: to address like this so much, and they just don't

1000
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: even try, Like yeah. Jordan's Peel said that he was

1001
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: largely inspired by this property by the like Stepford Wives

1002
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: kind of premise and get Out, And I feel like,

1003
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, that's obviously a movie that like does yeah,

1004
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: because there are some pretty um interesting similarities between you know,

1005
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: Stepford Wives and get Out, um the creepiness of conformity.

1006
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: And I love watching Stepford Wives as someone who like

1007
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: I definitely as someone who sells sex toys for a

1008
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: living m A. You know, I have an unusual career,

1009
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: but when I was a teenager, all I wanted to

1010
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: do was fit in and be normal. I just wanted

1011
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: to wear ugs and a north face and be normal,

1012
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: and you know, and then I became a little alternative

1013
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: later on. But uh, I think that's such the beauty

1014
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: of it is. I think so many of us are

1015
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: either aware of or are trying to fit in, or

1016
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: we are aware of how painfully we don't fit in.

1017
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: And there's so much to explore with this concept. It's

1018
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: a wonderful premise. I would love to see you further adaptations.

1019
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: And I know that there were some like eighties and

1020
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: nineties spin off like The Stepford Children, the Stepford Husbands

1021
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: that were like TV series. I think, um so t

1022
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: B d on Like what is or is not explored there?

1023
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm not going to hold my hopes high, but it's

1024
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: I think it has stood the test of time or

1025
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, at least forty fifty years, because there's so

1026
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: many universal themes of otherness, of perfection being something impossible

1027
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: to attain as a human yet we try to do

1028
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: that anyway. Um, and also just having that be something

1029
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: that's synonymous with a very narrow way of living your

1030
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: life and conformity even in the way you make your

1031
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: home you know that's there's a lot there. Well, while

1032
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: the movie, these movies don't tackle well, the one thing

1033
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: that they do is very lightly mentioned how Bobby Markowitz

1034
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: is Jewish in a community that is largely probably like

1035
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: Protestant Christian um and the two four movie more than so.

1036
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: In the nineteen version, Bobby introduces herself to Joanna as

1037
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: Barbie Marco and then say something like it's like the

1038
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: upwardly mobile version of Marco Witz, so she's basically like

1039
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: christianizing her name. I missed that, um. And then in

1040
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 1: with that Middler in the two thousand four version, there's

1041
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: that whole scene where they're like talking about like the

1042
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 1: Christmas Collectibles book at their book club, and she's making

1043
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of jokes about how she's like unapologetically Jewish,

1044
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: and then all of the other women are like, well,

1045
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 1: you can make a minora out of pine cones, and

1046
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: like they're just like not getting it. Um. But that's

1047
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: really all the movies do as far as like commenting

1048
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: on any kind of diversity or lack thereof. It's like

1049
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: one mentioned, one mentioned, one joke, and then it never

1050
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,919
Speaker 1: kind of comes back. I al thought it was kind

1051
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: of I mean it was at least even if you know,

1052
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about like the level of effectiveness,

1053
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: but I think that it's possible. One of the reasons

1054
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: that this story endures as well as it kind of

1055
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: like is I don't know, I feel like gender, like

1056
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: expectations of gender, even though they change over time, and

1057
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: they have become fortunately far less binary over time, and

1058
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: there's a larger discussion being had, but there is kind

1059
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: of like this I don't know, like historical tendency of

1060
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: like that you see like different versions of the same

1061
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: theme popping up in the seventies and the two thousands

1062
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: of at least I mean in the US. And then

1063
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: I think, generally I'm not a historian. I don't know,

1064
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm a comedian, So throw an egg in my head

1065
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, But like a tendency of when society

1066
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: is like kind of at quote unquote low, there's a recession,

1067
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: there's a war going on, women and marginalized people in

1068
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: general get more power because it's like, oh, we all

1069
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: need to band together. And then when there's times of

1070
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: kind of excess and economic growth, um, the binary kind

1071
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: of creeps back in a in a pretty inside yes, way,

1072
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: and it's like you see that in like World War

1073
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: two years and then in the fifties when there's this

1074
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: big economic boom, all of a sudden, women are back

1075
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: in the house, and you see it again in the eighties,

1076
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: and then you know, in the nineties and two thousands,

1077
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: the economies in a slightly better place, and you see

1078
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: these like stories about you know, just domesticity and like

1079
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: expectations for women kind of come back. And as much

1080
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: as like I think we've like moved certainly in the

1081
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: right direction over the years, it's like almost depressing to

1082
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I understand why these two move, Like

1083
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: I understand why this movie would make a comeback. In

1084
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: the early to mid two thousand's, it seems like a

1085
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: time where those like pressures were kind of making a return.

1086
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, even just like with Black History Month, where

1087
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: now in Women's History Month, and as like as long

1088
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: as you need a you know, history month for it's

1089
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 1: it's you know, as long as that is something, it

1090
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: means that yep, there's still a power and balance and

1091
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: ship is still fucked up. If you know, we're gonna

1092
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: just emphasize this one marginalized group during a certain period

1093
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: of time, you know, yeah, there's and with the two thousands,

1094
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: it's like the movie does reflect that women have more

1095
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: power than they did in the mid seventies, but the

1096
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: the you know, reaction from the patriarchy is worse, and

1097
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, taking going to even further extremes,

1098
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know, threatened to a greater extent

1099
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 1: than like my wife wants to take a picture on

1100
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: her nicon, should I kill her? Like, yeah, that makes

1101
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: it a lot more. Uh, it's a difficult pil to

1102
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: swallow that there was like really, I mean again, not

1103
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: that being a CEO means you deserve to be turned

1104
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: into a robot, but at least at least we're like, oh,

1105
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: he was feeling emasculated and had to set the record

1106
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 1: straight versus like my wife, who already was pretty much

1107
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 1: a housewife, I'm going to make into even more of

1108
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: a housewife. Right. Well, I imagine that part of it

1109
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: was that Joanna in the seventy five version mentions that

1110
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 1: she was dabbling in women's lib when she was living

1111
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: in New York, And it seems like a lot of

1112
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: the women in the community were into women's lib before

1113
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 1: they were murdered and turned into robots. Um, because there

1114
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: are mentions of different women either leading or participating in

1115
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: like a woman's group in Stepford, and their husbands were

1116
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: clearly threatened by that, hence turning them into robots because

1117
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,839
Speaker 1: a lot of men do not like women having freedom

1118
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: and autonomy. Um. I made a list, classic me, I

1119
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: made a little charge. Um. Some of these we've already

1120
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: touched on, but I wanted to just kind of go

1121
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: through the differences between the two thousand four in nineteen

1122
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: seventy five versions of the movies, just kind of reiterating

1123
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: that Joanna in the two thousand four one keeps trying

1124
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:15,719
Speaker 1: to like assimilate and adopt the Stepford Wives lifestyle, even

1125
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 1: before there's any indication that oh, did she or didn't

1126
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: she gets like actually converted, but she keeps being like, no,

1127
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: I am going to wear pink, and I am going

1128
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 1: to make a million cupcakes and I'm gonna do like

1129
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: She's like trying to assimilate power of positive thinking right

1130
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: for like four question mark reasons. We're never quite sure why.

1131
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: Part of this is also that she expresses no interest

1132
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 1: in trying to return to her career or do professional

1133
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 1: work of any kind. There's no like, well, maybe the

1134
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 1: TV thing wasn't actually for me, but I'd like to

1135
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: pick up this other thing. There's just like absolutely no

1136
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: whereas in the nineteen seventy five version, which I feel

1137
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: like is more realistic or at least more consistent with

1138
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: the character that joe Anna has been established to be,

1139
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 1: that she does continue to pursue her like career ambitions

1140
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: and her passion for photography. She and Bobby try to

1141
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: start like a women's group to help liberate the women

1142
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: of the community. And I really one of the scenes

1143
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: that stuck out to me about the one, I really

1144
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: do I love frank Oz, I love the production design

1145
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 1: on the tooth as of her one, but the seventies

1146
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: one is like, I don't know, I just like it

1147
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: so much better that this scene in. I also like

1148
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: the Joanna almost cheats on her husband in the in

1149
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: the first one too, even though it kind of goes

1150
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: nowhere and they make it seem like it's Raymond Chandler.

1151
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: But that also it was confusing. But the scene in

1152
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: in the first one where she is talking with the

1153
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 1: gallery owner, she's trying to like she's really nervous, she's

1154
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: feeling really insecure about her work. He's kind of like,

1155
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: even though he's like, I like your work, he's kind

1156
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 1: of dismissing her as like being hysterical to an extent.

1157
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: But she like says really clearly this thing that it

1158
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, Like it doesn't. She says like,

1159
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: I just don't want to be forgotten, like I I

1160
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 1: want my Like she just wants her life to have

1161
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: meant something beyond being someone's mom and someone's wife, which

1162
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: is like, you don't get that moment for like that

1163
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: updated moment for Nicole Kidman Joanna, and I feel like

1164
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: you could really use it and it could have made

1165
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,839
Speaker 1: an interesting statement on the time period it was coming out, definitely,

1166
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: And then yeah, just like the large chunk of the

1167
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 1: movie is Joanna and Bobby like going around to the

1168
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: different women in the community being like, hey, we're forming

1169
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 1: this women's liberation group basically like a place where we

1170
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: can bond with each other and speak freely about, you know,

1171
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: our issues and concerns. But it it ends up fizzling

1172
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: out because the women who join only want to talk

1173
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: about cleaning and baking um because is unbeknownst to them,

1174
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: these women are actually robots. But like they put so

1175
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: much more effort. Basically, this whole list is like reasons

1176
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: why the nineteen version of this movie is better, but

1177
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: like they actually like put in effort, and like Joanna

1178
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: is a more consistent character throughout another than we touched on,

1179
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: but like Walter gets a redemption arc for no reason,

1180
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: and like is the one to like liberate the wives

1181
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 1: and save the day, Whereas in the nineteen one, like

1182
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 1: Walter becomes abusive and it's clear that he's bad, and

1183
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: he is, and in that way she gets a hit

1184
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: him in the head with a fire poker and that's fun, yes,

1185
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: And then that kind of connects to like the main

1186
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: villain in the two thousand four one is this woman

1187
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 1: who wants to punish all women because her husband cheated

1188
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: on her with a younger woman, Whereas the main villain

1189
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 1: in the n is the Men's Association an a k a.

1190
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: The patriarchy, which makes more sense to me. Yeah, let's see,

1191
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: I think we've Yeah, we've gone over everything else pretty

1192
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: in depth. I have some notes from the one that

1193
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my notes on each movie, and the

1194
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 1: notes I took on the nineteen just like are just

1195
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: make more sense it feels like I'm like looking at

1196
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: like a more complete like piece of work here, because um,

1197
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 1: there was like more subtle imagery. The whole thing is

1198
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more subtle. But like one thing that

1199
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: really stood out to me is right when they move

1200
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: into the new house, Walter in he is just like,

1201
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 1: oh what if we have have you ever had sex

1202
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: in front of a fireplace? Oh? Like what if? Like

1203
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: let's christen every room in the house. And like there's

1204
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 1: this really big theme of like I view you as

1205
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 1: a sexual object, and that is in line with me

1206
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 1: basically wanting to turn you into a human sex all

1207
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: um that is living and breathing, and you know, again

1208
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: as a sex toy salesperson. I think the idea of

1209
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: sex dolls is definitely something that just kept popping up

1210
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: in my brain. Um, how a Stepford wife is like

1211
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: the You know, I'm not saying that people who buy

1212
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: end use sex dolls are looking for anything remotely like

1213
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: a Stepford experience, but I think it raises questions in

1214
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 1: the average person that are much similar. It's like, oh, well,

1215
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 1: you know, why would you want a full size doll?

1216
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: Like what does it say about how you feel about women?

1217
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: If you want this, doll um. Another thing I noticed

1218
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 1: in the seventy one is that the things that qualify

1219
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: as accidents seem very mundane. Like there's a scene where

1220
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:48,640
Speaker 1: there's like that fender bender in the parking lot in

1221
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,560
Speaker 1: the and they're like, oh, call the ambulance, and you

1222
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: just get the sense that like, nothing bad ever happens here,

1223
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 1: Like like the most delicate issue is a one call

1224
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 1: which I think, you know, boz us the suburbs. And

1225
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: then um, finally a line I wrote down from the

1226
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: see and I believe this is Joanna talking to Bobby

1227
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 1: earlier on when they're kind of like trying to figure

1228
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: out what's going on. Joanna says, it's perfect. How could

1229
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: you not like it? But I don't like it? And

1230
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: I love that line because she's like not able to

1231
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: put her finger on what's creepy about it and recognizing like, yes,

1232
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: this is idyllic, and like, I know I'm supposed to

1233
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: want this, why don't I want this this? I just

1234
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 1: thought it was a very telling line that was really

1235
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: well written. And I don't know if that was directly

1236
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 1: out of the book or whoever adapted the script wrote that,

1237
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:44,600
Speaker 1: but I thought that was a beautiful line that is

1238
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: kind of the pinnacle of the creepiness of Suburbia. I

1239
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: totally agree. Yeah, there's just there, there's just so many

1240
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: elements in the in this in one that just felt

1241
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: more botful and like subtle in a different and it's like, well,

1242
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, the Frank ozz movie is not trying to

1243
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: be subtle. That's not its mission. But I just thought

1244
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: it worked well and I wish something that I think

1245
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 1: could have carried over into the two thousand for adaptation

1246
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 1: but didn't was the fact that, like Joanna and Bobby

1247
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: are like really good friends in the seventies when you

1248
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: like understand like you get to see them kind of

1249
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 1: form this bond. They're very much on the same page.

1250
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: They're very complimentary to each other, They're like rooting for

1251
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: each other. They're kind of each other's main source of

1252
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: like you know, just feeling like reality. Yeah, and it's

1253
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: and so I feel like in the seventies version, when

1254
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: Bobby turns and she's Stepford, it you really feel it,

1255
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: and you're like like you can feel how devastating this

1256
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: would be for Joanna. But when it's funny, when that

1257
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: middler turns, but you just don't have that same level

1258
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 1: of relationships. They're kind of ever on the same page

1259
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:06,800
Speaker 1: because Nicole Kidman can't she's too inconsistent seconds. So they

1260
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 1: don't really get that bond because they're they're never really

1261
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: on the same page. Um yeah, I don't know. Was

1262
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 1: there any other stuff we want to Does it pass

1263
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 1: the back del test? And I think I think even

1264
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,600
Speaker 1: with our with our new caveat of meaningful conversations that

1265
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: do not um mentioned men, I think it happens much

1266
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:36,560
Speaker 1: more in the seventies one. But it does happen in

1267
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: both definite. I will say that. And I said this

1268
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:44,719
Speaker 1: earlier on when we're talking about it. It's like funny

1269
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 1: to put the back dealt test to a movie where

1270
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: there is like this, you know, even if you are

1271
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 1: talking to a robot about cooking and cleaning, it's like, well,

1272
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: the brain is their brain is being controlled by a man,

1273
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 1: so are you really talking to you know? So it's

1274
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 1: like that's a fun little caveats to throw in there. Sure, Sure,

1275
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: And then there's I mean, there's plenty of conversations between

1276
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: two women who have not been yet turned into right

1277
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 1: robots about it's mostly about do you think we'll be

1278
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: robots soon. But in the in the seventies, when they

1279
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: talk about like Joanna's career ambitions, they talk about like, hey,

1280
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 1: I was a women's libert like there's like a lot

1281
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 1: of ship going on, like you get good. They talk

1282
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: about their kids, they talk about like talk about a

1283
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff. Oh, I guess that was my

1284
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: Like I guess the way that the kids are treated

1285
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 1: and that I think they just should have written the

1286
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 1: kids out of this. There shouldn't be I mean even

1287
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 1: in the seventies when the kids kind of also disappear

1288
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 1: a little bit, I feel like it was like kind

1289
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 1: of telling you. I think that there is this like

1290
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: I can't describe it, like there is this impulse. I

1291
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: feel like maybe we've talked about this before where if

1292
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 1: you're like, if your female lead is a mother, she

1293
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 1: has to be like a really good mother and it

1294
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: has to be pointed out by the story. Like I

1295
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 1: think that that's something that kind of happens a lot.

1296
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. It's not necessarily bad,

1297
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 1: but it's just okay. Like yeah, if you're if you're

1298
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 1: listening to this and you're like that makes sense to me.

1299
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: I feel like I've read about this somewhere before, where Yeah,

1300
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: it's like pointing out that, like, not only is she

1301
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: our hero, she's an amazing, flawless mother, like because that's

1302
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 1: how the patriarchy sees went in, Right, you're a mother,

1303
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 1: or you're a daughter, or you're a sister, or you're

1304
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 1: a lover, but never all at once. Madonna whore complex

1305
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and then I guess I guess

1306
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:52,599
Speaker 1: it's cos without saying unfortunately that both of these movies

1307
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: were written and directed by then um, why is this?

1308
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: I honestly think this is a story that could be

1309
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: adapted well again, definitely by people who would have any

1310
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 1: insight into what this could feel like. Truly. Yeah, I

1311
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 1: guess that brings us to our nipple scale, which is

1312
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: our scale of zero to five nipples based on how

1313
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: the movie fares. Looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens,

1314
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,759
Speaker 1: I I think I have to like give two different

1315
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: scores for the two different movies here. While I appreciate

1316
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: that both movies attempt to comment on the kind of

1317
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 1: rigidity of women's expected roles in society under like what

1318
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: the patriarchy expects of women and how that's like a

1319
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,680
Speaker 1: very interesting thing that is extremely ripe for discussion for

1320
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: our show, especially uh seventy version, while it's not perfect

1321
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,719
Speaker 1: and there's some you know, things that it leaves out,

1322
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: and it is both movies are very much like these

1323
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 1: white families, ignoring any kind of what a black family's

1324
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:19,759
Speaker 1: family's experience would be, or any family of colors experience

1325
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 1: would be living in a predominantly white suburb. So yeah,

1326
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: there's there's there's things that it could have handled better.

1327
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: But for the seventy one, um, I want to give

1328
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 1: it like a maybe even like a free h Yeah,

1329
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: that's hard. I was trying to think what I'd give it.

1330
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think like a three or three

1331
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: and a half, especially for for like a movie like

1332
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 1: kind of adjusted for like time inflation, since it's like

1333
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,640
Speaker 1: a nineteen movie. I think it has a lot of

1334
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 1: really interesting points to make and just it handles like

1335
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: the satire in the allegory, in the tone of it

1336
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 1: all way more effectively. Whereas the two thousand four version,

1337
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I think I would only give like a one point

1338
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 1: five or maybe a two. Like I think there are

1339
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: again the examination of like male fragility and like the

1340
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 1: fragile male egos of like all the husbands who couldn't

1341
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 1: live up to their wives and who felt threatened and

1342
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: emasculated by them. That's a real thing that happens, and

1343
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: that's worth you know, examining. But again the movie it's

1344
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 1: just like, well, but you know, the patriarchy isn't actually

1345
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: to blame. You know who's to blame, Glenn Close, Yeah,

1346
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 1: I did. I am never like a big fan of

1347
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 1: that decision. It works for me in the two thousand

1348
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: four one because of like, well this, you know, all

1349
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,720
Speaker 1: the other points failed, so I guess it's one ship

1350
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: should at least fail in a way that is funny

1351
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 1: to me. Um, yeah, I'm gonna go three and a

1352
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: have on the seventies one and one and a half

1353
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 1: on the two thousand and four one for for mainly

1354
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: the reasons described. I'm honestly, I'm like, maybe I'm just

1355
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 1: a big fan of the seventies one. I almost want

1356
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: to read it a little higher. But I think for

1357
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: for its time especially, you know, it's kind of like

1358
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 1: that rare, rare one where it's like a movie written

1359
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: and directed by a man, adapted by a book written

1360
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 1: by a man about women that somehow didn't end up

1361
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:32,639
Speaker 1: being deeply condescending and horrible to women. Our bar again

1362
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: is such so low. I mean it's like I give

1363
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: I give the New one a half nipple, and I

1364
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,759
Speaker 1: give the seventies one like one and a half nipples,

1365
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: because while it's addressing, like like the women's rights aspect,

1366
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,640
Speaker 1: it's just like there's so many I think if I

1367
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: read about what was left out, that really just rocks

1368
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: my my judgment of that as well, um the fact

1369
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 1: that it was written into the book and then you know,

1370
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 1: seemingly intentionally left out or maybe edited out, who knows,

1371
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 1: but uh, yeah, I'm I'm a generous reviewer, so I've

1372
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 1: been trying to like batten down the hatches and be

1373
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 1: a tougher reviewer these days. I do. I think it's

1374
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:22,759
Speaker 1: worth mentioning that on letterbox, which I am an avid user,

1375
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 1: of the seventies one has like an average rating of

1376
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 1: three and a half stars and the two thousand and

1377
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,759
Speaker 1: four has an average rating of two and a half stars,

1378
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 1: so it's a full star less so average viewer would

1379
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: agree that the seventies one is overall uh the Rotten

1380
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 1: Tomatoes score for the two four movie the critics scores

1381
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes so quite rotten that and only only

1382
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: a thirty percent for the audience score. So audiences also

1383
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 1: don't like this movie. Yeah, I don't think people liked this.

1384
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: I think that like we we I think like Stalgia

1385
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: for us, maybe yeah, nostalgia nostalgia and like I like, yeah,

1386
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 1: I liked Sleepover, I liked driving movie theaters. The best

1387
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,600
Speaker 1: thing about the frank Oswind for me is like the

1388
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:17,720
Speaker 1: set design. It's so cool and so like gorgeous and

1389
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 1: like dated and kind of ways that are appealing tonight. Um,

1390
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 1: so I think, like, yeah, that that design is way

1391
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 1: better in the new one. It's really expensive looking, and

1392
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 1: it had a ridiculous budget, had like a ninety million

1393
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: dollar buy and made only about that much at the

1394
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:39,920
Speaker 1: box office, like it was a big profit turner. Turns

1395
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: out like generally, you know, it's uh, Women do like

1396
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: movies that are promised to be about them, to actually

1397
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:51,679
Speaker 1: be about them and not this bizarro matth Matthew Broderick

1398
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 1: Redemption arc. How many times am I going to have

1399
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: to watch a Matthew Broderick Redemption arc. I also read that, um,

1400
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,599
Speaker 1: the set of the two thousand four movie was really

1401
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:05,679
Speaker 1: tense and no one liked each other. Yeah, I read

1402
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: that too, Oh my god, juicy Frank Ozz was kind

1403
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,759
Speaker 1: of throwing shade. He's like, well, I wish Bette Midler

1404
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: wasn't bringing her problems onto the session. Like okay, sir, okay,

1405
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 1: there's who knows, who knows, but it seems like no

1406
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,679
Speaker 1: one liked each other. And Matthew Broderick has also bad

1407
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: mouth the movie. No one enjoyed it? Oh I did

1408
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: not know that, I know, right. It kind of made

1409
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: me a little more attached to it. I'm like, oh,

1410
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 1: was so this was hell for you as well as

1411
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 1: uh me watching it now chaos on off screen? Yea, truly, Zoe,

1412
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:46,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us to talk about

1413
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 1: I genuinely thank you so much for having me. I

1414
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 1: loved getting to do this deep dive and really like

1415
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: think critically about the films I watched instead of just

1416
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: like god, I've been watching so many movies that taking

1417
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 1: notes intentionally on them was really a nice change of

1418
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: pace for me. Thank you. You're so Welcomeme. Yeah, thanks,

1419
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 1: thank you. This has been uh what what a what

1420
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: a wild journey this property has been through over the years.

1421
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been turned into a robot and

1422
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: then turned back. So we workn Where can people check

1423
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,719
Speaker 1: out your stuff, follow you online? Et cetera? Great question.

1424
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 1: I am thong Gia on social media, so the word

1425
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: thong with r I A after it. Uh. My sex

1426
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 1: Way store is shop Spectrum boutique on Instagram. And a

1427
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: new thing that I a journey of an embarking upon lately,

1428
01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: which may appeal to some of you listeners, is a

1429
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,599
Speaker 1: Disturbing movie discord, which I've been calling the ft up

1430
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:56,360
Speaker 1: movie heads thread. So if you want to join that discord,

1431
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: please feel free. We'd love to have you talk about

1432
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 1: some weird movies that disturb us. Nice well, we'll link

1433
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 1: to it. You can follow us on social media Twitter

1434
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our

1435
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: Patreon a k a. Matreon. It's five dollars a month.

1436
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,720
Speaker 1: It gets you access to two bonus episodes every month,

1437
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 1: plus the entire back catalog, which is up to nearly

1438
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 1: eighty bonus episodes. Now it's out of control. It is

1439
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: um and uh yeah, I would say um. Check out

1440
01:30:37,439 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: The Suffered Wives if you've never seen it on YouTube

1441
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: and and also get out another watch just for the

1442
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 1: hell of it. Skip Skip the Frank oz One. I

1443
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 1: had to pay three dollars to watch it, and I'm

1444
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: never gonna get over it. Sorry, ridiculous. Um. You can

1445
01:30:57,680 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 1: check out our march at t public dot com slash

1446
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: at the Epactel cost You can get masks, you can

1447
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 1: get stuff. You can live your life or not, we

1448
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: won't know. Um. And on that note, I'm gonna go

1449
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: down to my basement and just pull my head off.

1450
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm gonna figure out how to get an

1451
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,679
Speaker 1: eight GM and I want to get a cash system

1452
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 1: set up in my stomach. Just spit up. I'm I'm

1453
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: a feminist icon. So I'm gonna find a man robot

1454
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna make him do all my bidding for me. Wow,

1455
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm gonna go tell my boyfriend to

1456
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 1: pick up the groceries at Costco, just like the end

1457
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 1: of the actual two thousand and four movie. I'm gonna

1458
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 1: go say, hey, go get all my groceries for me. You'round, man,

1459
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 1: and it's time for that tables to turn things. They

1460
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 1: are a little different these days, I know. I'm like,

1461
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: that's what a shitty punishment like the grocery store rocks.

1462
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: It's fun. Yeah, Colm, We all love anyway anyway, you

1463
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 1: know why? Fine, Bye bye