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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.

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Speaker 2: I'm my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hert Start, that's Karen

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Speaker 2: kil Gareth.

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Speaker 1: Non view are listener, m you need to know that

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Speaker 1: George is wearing a floral mechanics jumpsuit.

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Speaker 2: I am with pockets. It's major, thank you, all in one,

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Speaker 2: all in one, zip up, get naked to pee, which

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Speaker 2: is so fun.

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Speaker 1: Fully naked in public bathroom used to be weirdess.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel like I feel powerful and like capable.

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Speaker 1: Yes in this.

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Speaker 2: I've never worn a jumpsuit before.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: It's a company called Mixed Bite Nazarin who makes these,

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Speaker 2: and it's like their.

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Speaker 1: Thing, mixed M I x M I x D eighty

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Speaker 1: and Nazarin n A Z n A s R A

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Speaker 1: N and s R A N. Yeah, nice a thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like Kawaiian florals meets engineers'.

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Speaker 2: Function safety levels. It's gonna go in my binder of

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Speaker 2: what I wore good, so I do not repeat it.

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Speaker 1: And at Christmas do we get to review the binder.

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Speaker 2: Don't pick our favorites.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a fake fire playing on them like a

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Speaker 1: like a memories, but it's just your outfits.

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Speaker 2: Nobody notices or cares.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, I am eighty percent sure that while this is

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Speaker 1: not the exact same shirt, it's the second version of

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Speaker 1: this shirt that I wore to record minisodes. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure it's the same one.

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Speaker 2: Don't be like me. It's really fucking hard up here.

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Speaker 2: I can't, like constantly heard.

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Speaker 1: But you know I couldn't if I tried. I really couldn't.

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Speaker 1: The outfit thing when I was in high school mattered

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Speaker 1: a lot to me, and I think I broke my

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Speaker 1: own brain with the body over consciousness. It was tough.

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Speaker 1: There was this spree full suit I wore once that

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Speaker 1: it wakes me up in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: with it. It was, and I thought it was like

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Speaker 1: the height of style.

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Speaker 2: I have to see it.

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Speaker 1: I think I was just too far ahead.

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Speaker 2: Was it because everyone wears ap leisure now? Is it

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Speaker 2: like a sweatsuit?

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Speaker 1: It was like a little business suit, but it was

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Speaker 1: white children in business suits, children in but it was

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Speaker 1: the eighties, so that was kind of poochy, pleated in

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Speaker 1: the pants, oh, just like unflattering and insanely long in

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Speaker 1: the jacket blazer, and it was just children. It was white. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was like sixteen white with geometric patterns that were pastel,

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Speaker 1: so like a little turquoise triangle and a little orange

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Speaker 1: square all over it.

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Speaker 2: I gotta find this fan called or who had this?

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Speaker 1: Pleaselease find in your picture of being a teen in

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Speaker 1: your is spree business suit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, shoulder pad.

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Speaker 1: It was a time and I've served my time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm you don't need to do anything.

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Speaker 1: Fading into the gen x background.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations, thank you. It looks not stressful and not pointless

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Speaker 2: and tedious. I mean, actually no, it's fun. I like

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Speaker 2: dressing up and wearing clothes.

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Speaker 1: That's cute. I would say it's your true passion.

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Speaker 2: I do love it. It does change my personality and

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Speaker 2: change my like, what's the word aura? What I feel

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Speaker 2: that day?

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Speaker 1: Completely, sit up a little straighter. You get to test

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Speaker 1: out all the different nights at you're around table. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now this is girlely engineer Georgia.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: Gasoline station attendant, gas station at station attundant.

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Speaker 2: But make it tropical, but.

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Speaker 1: Make it ninety five degrees with eighty percent humanity.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, I have a corrections corner, speaking of that's

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Speaker 2: a great transition. When I did this story about Paul Franzak,

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Speaker 2: the baby who was kidnapped as a as a baby.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is how it goes.

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Speaker 2: I forgot to mention that The Knife actually did an

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Speaker 2: episode on it. Oh, they did a two part episode

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Speaker 2: on it wow, called Kidnapped at Birth, which, of course

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Speaker 2: they did it wonderfully. Highly recommend check that out. And

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Speaker 2: it aired just this past May.

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Speaker 1: Oh great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly

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Speaker 2: Right Media, and that's right. Here are some highlights this week.

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Speaker 1: Over on Banana's Curtain, Scottie cover Katie Perry's performance recently

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Speaker 1: where she got stuck in a giant bottle, also a

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Speaker 1: stolen Sinclair dinosaur and a French try that caused a

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Speaker 1: gas station crash.

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Speaker 2: Oh my God. Over on Brief Recess, Michael and Melissa

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Speaker 2: discuss the ongoing Lindsay Clancy trial and what kind of

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Speaker 2: lawyer a trans person should hire. Plus Emmy Award winning actor,

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Speaker 2: writer and comedian Bryan Safie joins them in st Studio

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Speaker 2: the Basque to share behind the scenes stories from his

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Speaker 2: off Broadway show Are You Mad at Me?

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Speaker 1: So Brilliant? I love Brian Safe so much?

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Speaker 2: Are you following the Lindsay Clancy trial.

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Speaker 1: I only just heard about it, like just learned about

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Speaker 1: it a couple days ago, so I'm like trying to

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Speaker 1: catch up. It's a kind of thing where people are

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Speaker 1: already being like this is wrong in that like people

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Speaker 1: are already angry and accusing. So I'm like trying to

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Speaker 1: follow and get the story before I get the opinion.

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Speaker 2: And every day something new, some little detail comes out

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Speaker 2: that is interesting or curious or suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Right. Also, just on the Brief Recess thing, Michael just

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Speaker 1: announced yesterday he is one of the cast members of

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Speaker 1: the new season of Traders. Unreal it is.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna be so good.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna be so good.

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Speaker 2: I hope he's a Trader.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so excited. God, that man is so delight.

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Speaker 2: He's everything.

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Speaker 1: So go listen to Brief Recess and he will tell

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Speaker 1: you all about it. Over on Disgraceland, Jake tells the

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Speaker 1: story of the Smashing Pumpkins, your favorite band Georgia, from

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Speaker 1: a drug related death to competing band narratives. This episode

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Speaker 1: explores the strange legacy of Billy Corgan and Company.

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Speaker 2: They are messy, notoriously, that's going to be really interesting.

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Speaker 1: He always it's like he's to fight with Courtney Love

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Speaker 1: and there was just always something going on.

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Speaker 2: Totally and then finally on I said no gifts, Bridger

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Speaker 2: keeps us cool when Hayden Johnson shows up with a gift.

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Speaker 2: Then the two discussed cruise ships, eagle Scouts, and grave robbing,

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Speaker 2: just like a all right, you go first, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to tell you the story today because

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Speaker 1: it is classic true crime and there's to me an

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Speaker 1: infamous Forensic Files episode about it, which is when Maren

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Speaker 1: and Molly pitched it. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about, which it's one

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Speaker 1: of them. Okay, But just a warning to the listeners,

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Speaker 1: this case involves not only sexual assault but child sexual abuse,

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Speaker 1: So please take care when you're listening to this, and

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Speaker 1: please take care of who's listening to this. You, of course,

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Speaker 1: may have seen this already on Forensic Files. In that episode,

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Speaker 1: they only refer to this victim by her first name,

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Speaker 1: which is Candy. So that's what I'm going to do. Took. So,

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Speaker 1: this story takes place in the early nineties in a

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Speaker 1: rural Canadian town in southeastern Saskatchewan called Kipling. It's a

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Speaker 1: little quiet town there's more livestock than people that kind

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Speaker 1: of place. And it's Halloween of nineteen ninety three. A

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Speaker 1: twenty three year old woman named Candy is working her

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Speaker 1: shift at a local gas station, and if she's going

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Speaker 1: about her day, it's business as usual until her ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend stops by. The two get into an argument and

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Speaker 1: it escalates to the point where her ex drives out

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Speaker 1: of the parking lot and she runs after his truck

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Speaker 1: and kicks it and puts a dent in it. So

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Speaker 1: it's a bad fight. We don't know what it was about,

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Speaker 1: but Candy's really upset. She wants to go talk to

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Speaker 1: her best friend about it, who works over at Kipling's Hospital,

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Speaker 1: So she leaves the gas station she drives over there,

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Speaker 1: but when she gets there, she's told her friend isn't

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Speaker 1: working that night. Candy is so visibly upset that the

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Speaker 1: nurse she talks to suggests that she talked to a doctor.

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Speaker 1: So this is a small town, so small there's two

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Speaker 1: practicing doctors in the town, and Candy knows the one

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Speaker 1: that's working that night. It's thirty two year old John Schneeberger,

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Speaker 1: who the locals affectionately refer to as Doctor John. So

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Speaker 1: nine months prior he delivered Candy's baby, so she trusts

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Speaker 1: him completely. So when he says he's going to give

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Speaker 1: her something to calmer nerves, you know, sounds great to her.

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Speaker 1: He leaves the room. He comes back in with a

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Speaker 1: long needle. Candy is like, she assumed it would be

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Speaker 1: some pills and not a shot, but she's not really

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Speaker 1: concerned about it until he gives her the medication. She's

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Speaker 1: immediately overcome with severe dizziness, to the point that the

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Speaker 1: doctor has to help her walk from the chair she's

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Speaker 1: sitting in over to the exam table. When she gets there,

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Speaker 1: she just falls face first onto it. She is She

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Speaker 1: will later say, quote, I had no control over my muscles.

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Speaker 1: It's like all my muscles left and I was just

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Speaker 1: this piece of jelly falling over. I tried to scream,

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Speaker 1: but nothing would come out but a croaking voice that

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Speaker 1: a frog would make. End quote. She comes two hours

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Speaker 1: later knowing something is deeply wrong. This is Candy's story

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Speaker 1: of what happened to her that day and her heart

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Speaker 1: fought battle for justice against the doctor she trusted with

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Speaker 1: her life, whoa. The main sources used for this story

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Speaker 1: are archival articles from several Canadian newspapers, and the Forensic

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Speaker 1: Files episode that's mentioned above. I won't say the title

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Speaker 1: right now. The rest of the sources are in the

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Speaker 1: show notes.

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Speaker 2: I don't know which. When you're talking about wrap with that,

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Speaker 2: I want I don't, but I want to say, is

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Speaker 2: it the one that this but I don't want to

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Speaker 2: spoil it. If it is, do you want to do

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Speaker 2: it just to get it off your chest? Is it

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Speaker 2: the one where he uses his blood?

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh, my god, as the one is, like I

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Speaker 1: remember it purpose That's why it's one of It's one

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Speaker 1: of the ones where as a teen watching Forensic Files,

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Speaker 1: your mind goes, I didn't understand people could or would

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Speaker 1: do things like.

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Speaker 2: That totally, Like that is so far beyond like decent

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Speaker 2: normal people.

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Speaker 1: Well, here we go, here we go. So for everybody

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Speaker 1: that's like, we don't know what Forensic Files is, grow up.

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Speaker 1: So it's Halloween night, nineteen ninety three. Candy wakes up

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Speaker 1: in the same exam room, but now she's alone and

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Speaker 1: she is still slumped over the examination table. She immediately

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Speaker 1: suspects that she has been sexually assaulted from behind. So

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Speaker 1: that's the position she was left. My god, on top

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Speaker 1: of being drugged and disoriented. She never saw her attacker's face.

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Speaker 1: She explains it on ensick Files this way. Quote when

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Speaker 1: a dentist freezes your gums and he's pulling your tooth out,

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Speaker 1: you can't feel the pain from the tooth, But what

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Speaker 1: you can feel is the pressure of the tooth moving

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Speaker 1: back and forth. That's the only way I can describe it.

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Speaker 2: Oh God. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A few hours later, as she gets ready to leave

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Speaker 1: the hospital, she sees doctor John and she asks him, quote,

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Speaker 1: what the hell was that drug you gave me last night?

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Speaker 1: It turns out it was versaid, which is a fast

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Speaker 1: acting drug that's known to cause short term amnesia, and

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Speaker 1: it's used in clinical settings for severe anxiety or to

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Speaker 1: relax patients before operations. It's very common to get a

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Speaker 1: dose of versaid. And that's that kind of like when

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Speaker 1: you're in the hallway. Yeah, just chill and wait and

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Speaker 1: you don't care. Everything's fine.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with something a little lower, ken we.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, given how upset Candy had been the night before,

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Speaker 1: it's not strange that the doctor would give her versaid.

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Speaker 1: That in and of itself is not the craziest thing

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Speaker 1: in the world. Allth it's very strong. But it's doctor

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Speaker 1: John's response to this question that she raises that is

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Speaker 1: a red flag, and that is, quote, why did it

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Speaker 1: give you wild dreams? Immediate fury. So he starts talking

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Speaker 1: about the hospital's quote wanderers or the elderly patients with

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Speaker 1: cognitive issues who get out of their beds and wander

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Speaker 1: the hospital at night.

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Speaker 2: Dude.

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Speaker 1: As he's explaining this, everything is starting to click into

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Speaker 1: place for Candy. She realizes she is standing face to

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Speaker 1: face with her rapist. She'll later say, quote, I knew

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Speaker 1: that I was going to have a hell of a

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Speaker 1: fight on my hands because he's already covering up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's just pulling in. These could have been this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could have been this. Look at all of these variables.

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Speaker 2: Which is so incredible that Candy was still like, Nope,

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Speaker 2: I note because there's so many You're taught to gaslight

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Speaker 2: yourself to be like that must be what it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can't argue with this person. Yes, maybe

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Speaker 2: they're right. Like a lot of women, that's what.

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Speaker 1: We do, but in doing it sometimes it's like we

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Speaker 1: really take apart logic. Because it's like the last person

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Speaker 1: she saw with a big needle full of medicine, the

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Speaker 1: idea that she's putting two and two together. It's not

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Speaker 1: only not crazy, but then he immediately is like giving

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Speaker 1: her that like what why, what's the problem? Like we

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Speaker 1: know that personality has seen it before. But of course

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Speaker 1: that's meaningless. This is one woman's opinion. So she leaves

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Speaker 1: the hospital and she drives to a different town to

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Speaker 1: go to a clinic somewhere else, not in her town,

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Speaker 1: and gets a rape kit done so that she can

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Speaker 1: quote find out if this really did happen or am

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Speaker 1: I going nuts?

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Speaker 2: And how old is she?

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Speaker 1: She's in her mid twenties. Okay, that's so brave, She's

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Speaker 1: really young.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Candy explains to the person taking her report that she

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Speaker 1: has not been sexually active for several weeks, yet the

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Speaker 1: vaginal swab they collect from her tests positive for semen

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Speaker 1: and also her genes and underwear do so, with that

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Speaker 1: evidence in hand, she goes to the authorities to formally

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Speaker 1: accuse doctor Schneeberger of rape. A police investigation is opened,

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Speaker 1: and soon word begins to spread through the town of Kipling.

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Speaker 1: It will surprise no one that many people do not

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Speaker 1: believe Candy. Just immediately on hearing this just it's totally impossible,

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Speaker 1: there's no way. Some think she's simply mistaken about her

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Speaker 1: attacker's identity, but others think she's targeting doctor John, either

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Speaker 1: because she's obsessed with him and she's getting a revenge

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Speaker 1: because he doesn't feel the same way, or they're secretly involved.

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Speaker 1: She's trying to extort money from him. It's all the

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Speaker 1: gossip and the usual, but it's all on her right.

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Speaker 1: And doctor John is a trusted physician who despite only

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Speaker 1: being in his late twenties when he moved to town

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Speaker 1: from South Africa in nineteen eighty seven to open his practice,

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Speaker 1: and in the six year sense, he's proved to be

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Speaker 1: very competent doctor that this town has embraced. So he

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Speaker 1: was kind of an outsider and he was young, and

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Speaker 1: then he proved himself and everyone's like, we love him.

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Speaker 1: He's great. An ambulance driver will tell a local paper

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Speaker 1: that quote, I would estimate that at least twenty five

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Speaker 1: heart patients are alive today because of doctor John.

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Speaker 2: But you can still be a fucking predator, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't matter how many good things done.

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Speaker 1: My grandmother will roll over her grave. But it's like

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Speaker 1: and let me introduce you to the Catholic Church. People

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Speaker 1: doing all the things that are right by the book,

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Speaker 1: right right, sending it up to the Lord. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's not, let's not anymore.

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Speaker 2: We don't and we won't.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm in so much trouble.

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Speaker 2: My father would are you wrong?

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Speaker 1: I'm in no way wrong? And also my mother would

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Speaker 1: be like, that's right exactly. Also, doctor John has a

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Speaker 1: picture perfect home life. After you moved to Canada, he

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Speaker 1: fell in love with a woman who is a single

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Speaker 1: mother of two daughters. Her name is Lisa, and John

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Speaker 1: and Lisa got married. Then they welcomed two of their

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Speaker 1: own children to the family. Lisa will later tell the

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Speaker 1: Globe and Mail newspaper that quote, living in a small

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Speaker 1: place like Kipling, not a day went by when people

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Speaker 1: didn't stop me in the street and say, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: so lucky to be married to such a wonderful man.

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Speaker 1: So it's the world of you know, the whole town

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Speaker 1: loves this person. So even though there's a ton of

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Speaker 1: goodwill towards doctor John after Candy comes forward, he is

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Speaker 1: ego to clear his name, so he cooperates with investigators,

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Speaker 1: and he points out that versaid, can mess with a

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Speaker 1: patient's memory and perception and can even cause what he

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Speaker 1: calls quote erotic hallucinations. Now it turns out sexual hallucinations

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Speaker 1: are a side effect of the drug, but rare. The

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Speaker 1: doctor also volunteers to provide a blood sample so investigators

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Speaker 1: can test his DNA against the DNA extracted from those

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Speaker 1: samples collected and Candy's rape kit, and when analysts compare

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Speaker 1: the two, they determined that the blood sample and the

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Speaker 1: semen sample did not come from the same person. Right,

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Speaker 1: But Candy knows she's right.

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Speaker 2: That she still is like, no, I'm right. The blood

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Speaker 2: sample shows it's not a match, and she still insists.

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Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, it's so brave. Yes, it's the kind

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Speaker 1: of knowing where it's like a lot of things in

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Speaker 1: life are like this. They won't believe you, or they

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Speaker 1: won't be behind you. You just got to do it

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Speaker 1: and go through it. And then at the other side

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Speaker 1: people will be like and I didn't know, and you know,

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Speaker 1: do it anyway, whatever, you gotta do it anyway. This

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Speaker 1: woman is so cool. I mean, yeah, watch the forensic

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Speaker 1: files if you haven't seen it. She's a bad us.

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Speaker 1: So she wonders maybe if there's an issue with his

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Speaker 1: blood sample, or maybe that something happened during the draw

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Speaker 1: to compromise it. And this is the early nineties, it's

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Speaker 1: so early with all this stuff that like it became

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Speaker 1: this like well, this is the defining you know, this

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Speaker 1: will get the verdict one way or the other. But

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Speaker 1: at this point it was like early it was before

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Speaker 1: you could identify people through DNA. It was simply matching,

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Speaker 1: So you just had to match DNA to DNA the

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Speaker 1: person of interest. They had to have their sample to

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Speaker 1: compare it to the sample they had. That's the only

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Speaker 1: way they could use DNA. So the doctor actually volunteers

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Speaker 1: to give another sample because he's such a great man

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Speaker 1: in the community. For this one, the police officers supervise

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Speaker 1: a registered nurse is she injects a needle into the

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Speaker 1: doctor's arm as soon as she fills a vial with blood.

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Speaker 1: That vile is sealed and taken directly to a forensics

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Speaker 1: lab for testing, and once again that DNA comes back

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Speaker 1: and it does not match. So it's important to note

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Speaker 1: that throughout all of this doctor John's wife, Lisa, is

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Speaker 1: standing by him, and she believes in her husband's innocence.

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Speaker 1: Which could not have been easy in that tiny town,

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Speaker 1: because there's nothing people love more than a nice, hard

356
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Speaker 1: turn of you know, like you were the one I

357
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Speaker 1: was jealous of, and now look what happened to you.

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Speaker 1: So with the second blood test result, doctor John Schneberger

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Speaker 1: is cleared as a suspect finally, but there's one inconvenient

360
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Speaker 1: fact that remains, and Prosecutor Dean Sinclair will put this

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Speaker 1: this way. He says, quote versaid can account for all

362
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 1: sorts of hallucinations, possibly, but it can't produce semen. And

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Speaker 1: according to Candy, the last time she had intercourse was

364
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Speaker 1: weeks before the incident. Yeah, okay. So meanwhile, rumors are

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Speaker 1: flying around Kipling about Candy, and they're so bad, there's

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Speaker 1: so many, they're so loud that she actually has to

367
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Speaker 1: leave town. But she has no intention of giving up

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Speaker 1: because despite these testers, she absolutely knows who her rapist is.

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Speaker 1: So then in the face of all of this, the

370
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Speaker 1: police investigation goes cold because it's like, we don't have

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Speaker 1: the evidence. We've tested it, that's now the evidence. But

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Speaker 1: Candy is ready. She hires a private investigator to take

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Speaker 1: over this. PI basically knows that he needs to get

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Speaker 1: a DNA sample. So he breaks into doctor John's car

375
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: illegal right right off the bat, coming in hot, coming hot,

376
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: and also now the thing that you're gonna get is

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Speaker 1: inadmissible in course, totally, But he wants to find some

378
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: of the doctor's DNA. He sees a few strands of

379
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 1: hair on the headrest, but there's no root attached, and

380
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: that's where the DNA is in hairstrand, so you have

381
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: to have those root bulbs. But then he sees a

382
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 1: tube of chapstick and grabs it. He takes it to

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Speaker 1: a private forensics slab where technicians successfully extract DNA from it,

384
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Speaker 1: and when they compare the chapstick sample to the semen

385
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Speaker 1: sample from Candy's rape kit, it's a match.

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy that they continued on this trajectory of

387
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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, it's him, because I feel like so

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00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,919
Speaker 2: many people would be like, it's he's clearly not, especially

389
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Speaker 2: even her, who in her mind knows it would gasplight

390
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 2: herself into thinking I am imagining things.

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Speaker 1: But haven't you ever had a moment with a person

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Speaker 1: where it's just like, you know, they're fucking with you.

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Speaker 1: It's the gleam in the eye of like what did

394
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: you have a weird dream or it's like it's a

395
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: recognizable like personality type. Yeah, then and it isn't. And

396
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Speaker 1: I think those types of people get off on the

397
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 1: fact that it's like only you and I know what

398
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm doing right, like I never said like that, or

399
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 1: you're remembering it wrong.

400
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: Yep.

401
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's I think maybe isn't the kind of

402
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: person that does doubt herself. She's like, go fuck yourself, Okay.

403
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: So her quote is I knew it all along. It

404
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: wasn't a shock that something was going to match, but

405
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 1: it was a relief. So it's a win, but of

406
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: course bittersweet because it's inadmissible evidence. But the information does

407
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 1: raise new suspicions around the doctor and it becomes the

408
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,719
Speaker 1: basis for the civil suit that Candy files against him.

409
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: She takes him to court in nineteen ninety six, three

410
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: years after her alleged assault, but she's still only in

411
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: her mid twenties. Around the same time, the investigation into

412
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 1: that rape, which went cold, kicks back into gear and

413
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: doctor John is once again asked to provide a new

414
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: blood sample. This time, the draw takes place at the

415
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: police department and it's being filmed as they draw it,

416
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: And so this footage is in the Forenza five. And

417
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Speaker 1: do you remember his beautiful butter yellow sweater and his

418
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 1: big nineties glasses that he's wearing.

419
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: Now that you say so, yeah, yeah.

420
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Speaker 1: The woman who's conducting the draw her name's Jeane Roney,

421
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: and she explains to the doctor that since she only

422
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: needs a small amount of blood from him today, she's

423
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: just going to prick his fingertip for the blood. And

424
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Speaker 1: he says, oh, no, sorry, I have a disease that

425
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: causes me to bruise very badly on my hands, So

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Speaker 1: I would rather have you draw the blood from right

427
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Speaker 1: here in this arm.

428
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

429
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: And there's no rules or you know, elations about where

430
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: the blood has to be drawn from. So she just

431
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 1: takes him at his words.

432
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Speaker 2: Oh so I know what's coming. If you don't know

433
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: what's coming, it's gross. Just FYI, it's like and she.

434
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: Inserts the needle into his Yeah, oh sorry, I should

435
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: have given some sort of people have serious.

436
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 2: Needle needle and blood issues.

437
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully since this is an entirely blood based story.

438
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like up until now, it's it's what

439
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: he does that is so fucked up. What's coming?

440
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: Okay, get ready to get ready and get out of

441
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: the room if you can't handle it, So don't turn

442
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: it off. We need the Yeah, yeah, just turn the

443
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: volume down and watch something else.

444
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: We need this streets, we don't need anyone.

445
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: So Gene turns his forum over looking for a suitable vein,

446
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: and as she does, she notices something she'll later say, quote,

447
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: the vein was larger, or appeared much larger than I

448
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: would have expected. I thought it was a little unusual.

449
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: Okay end quote. Even weirder than that. When she injects

450
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: the needle into that vein that she finds no blood

451
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: comes out. She pulls it back out. She tries again,

452
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: and in a different spot, still no blood into a vein.

453
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: On the third try, she finally manages to draw a

454
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 1: little bit of blood, but it looks off.

455
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: A vein sticking out of his arm.

456
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: In the footage shaken of the procedure that day with

457
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: doctor John out of frame, so presumably out of the room,

458
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: that's what it looks like, is that it's after the procedure.

459
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: You can hear Jeene say, quote, it's a little strange.

460
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: The blood doesn't really look fresh. I don't know. Yeah,

461
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: the blood doesn't look fresh.

462
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: Fresh is like probably bright red, right, and it's.

463
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: Dark blue or darker.

464
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: It's either darker or lighter or thinner or I mean,

465
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 2: they can tell the difference between blood. That's yeah, they

466
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: can tell that.

467
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: They must.

468
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: They're ducked well, its making a murderer. They found the

469
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: blood on the steering wheel that had clearly already been

470
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 2: exposed to air instead of coming straight from something something. Right,

471
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 2: it wasn't fresh blood and they.

472
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: Could tell, right, So they know all these things.

473
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: They know things doctors and scientists.

474
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so this blood sample is immediately sent to a

475
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: lab for processing, and analysts determine that this blood is

476
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: too degraded to be analyzed by DNA. So now the

477
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: police are forced to go back to Candy and tell

478
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: her they can't use the sample that he has provided

479
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: because it's too degraded. And of course Candy is furious.

480
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: This is a huge that's not.

481
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 2: A problem, go back and get more motherfuckers.

482
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: I know, but I think it was like the one

483
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: shot deal of like oh sor if you can't use whatever.

484
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: So it's a huge blow to her civil case and

485
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: to the newly resurrected criminal case for this rape, and

486
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: both of them then stall out because that was like

487
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: their chance. But the combination of the odd degraded blood

488
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: sample and the chapstick for the DNA from doctor John's

489
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: car has finally made it into the awareness of the police,

490
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: and they have become very suspicious of him, but they

491
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: don't have any hard evidence to justify and arrest until

492
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: April of nineteen ninety seven, more than four years since

493
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: Candy's alleged assault, and just when it's beginning to seem

494
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: hopeless for her, there's a break in the case, and

495
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: it's a terrible one that comes from doctor John's own family.

496
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: His fifteen year old stepdaughter finally confides to her mother

497
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: that doctor John has been sexually assaulting her since nineteen

498
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: ninety four when she was twelve years old. Oh my gosh.

499
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: She accounts how he would come into her bedroom at night,

500
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: give her an injection that would incapacitate her, and then

501
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: rape her. Holy it's horrific and devastating news, especially considering

502
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: how Lisa stood by her husband in the wake of

503
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: another woman's rape accusations. So she immediately goes into her

504
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: husband's home office and starts looking around, and she finds

505
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: a box filled with condoms, needles, and drugs, including versaid,

506
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: and suddenly the murky picture of who her her husband

507
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: is now comes into sharp focus. The allegations are true,

508
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 1: Lisa will tell a journalist quote, I loved that man.

509
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: He was my soulmate, my best friend. We were going

510
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: to grow old together. I felt sick. I still blame myself.

511
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: Maybe if I had believed Candy, none of this would

512
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: have happened to my daughter. Oh that's the saddest sentence.

513
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: It's so horrible, it's so unfair. One destructive man's actions,

514
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: who's lying and psychopathic, and it's always the woman who

515
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: pay the price. So Lisa goes to the police and

516
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: tells them what her incredibly brave daughter told her, and

517
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: doctor Schneberger is finally arrested, and now he has to

518
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: take yet another DNA test, but this time the blood

519
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: is drawn from his finger. They also take a sample

520
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: of his hair, root, bulb and all, and they swab

521
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 1: the inside of his mouth, and when each sample is tested,

522
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: they all match the sample from Candy's rape kit. No

523
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: big reveal here, just finally the justice. When Candy learns

524
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: about Lisa's daughter's allegations against John. She says, quote, I screamed,

525
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: I bawled. I was pretty disgusted because all of these years,

526
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm fighting to get the truth out, but also to

527
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: make sure it didn't happen to anybody else. So authorities

528
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: still can't figure out how doctor John managed to full

529
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: multiple DNA tests over the years, during draws that were

530
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: monitored by police and overseen by skilled technicians and nurses.

531
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: And she even said, it doesn't look right, and they

532
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 2: didn't follow.

533
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: Through with right because you know, what could that be?

534
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: Your vein doesn't look right. Yeah, it's such a crazy thing. Yeah,

535
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: well so no, I know. It takes until November nineteen

536
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: ninety nine for John to confess, and it happens at

537
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: his trial where on the stand he admits that he

538
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: surgically inserted what's called a penrose drain under the skin

539
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: of his left arm. All you people who don't know us,

540
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: it's a routine plastic medical drain that's inserted postop to

541
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: prevent fluid from building up near a healing incision. So

542
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: he stole blood from one of his unsuspecting patients and

543
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: then he filled the drain with it. And surgically implanted

544
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: it near the real veins in the crook of his arm.

545
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: God, God, this is the arm. Diabolical, l just insane.

546
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: I think, like, you know, I'm going to get out

547
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: of this awful thing that I did. That's all my fault.

548
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: I'm want to do the most diabolically insanely evil thing.

549
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: Well, and my thing is how many other patients did

550
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: he do it too?

551
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: Totally?

552
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: How many other women did he do it too that

553
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: just didn't know? And like that? He clearly this was like, well,

554
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: this is what I'm doing, so I better make a

555
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: plan to get out of it totally. So this would

556
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: be the arm obviously he'd offer to the medical professionals

557
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: who drew his blood, who would never think twice about

558
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: why it would be one arm over the other. Also,

559
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: this is why the sample was so degraded in nineteen

560
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: ninety six. It was genuinely old, stale blood that had

561
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: been sitting in his arms.

562
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: You just fucking put this thing in there and left

563
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 2: it in there.

564
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's my innocence straw, but depravity. Yeah,

565
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: he was going to do it again.

566
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: Now they're going to come back because I'm fucking guilty.

567
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: So insanely enough. Despite this admission, doctor Schneberger maintains his innocence.

568
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: In fact, he offers that maybe Candy broke into his home,

569
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: stole a used condom, and used it to frame him.

570
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: That's not how salmon works.

571
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: Well, also, it's for what what.

572
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 2: Did she get? Totally?

573
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: He defends the implanted tube of blood by claiming he

574
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: was just trying to protect himself against her false allegations.

575
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: You went too far. But in the end, doctor John

576
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: and his lawyers are no match for Candy. She will

577
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: later say on this episode of Forensic Files, quote, I

578
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: was a bulldog on the stand. I kicked his lawyer's ass.

579
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: And he's supposed to be the best lawyer in southern Saskatchewan,

580
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: best defense lawyer. I showed him whose boss?

581
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah you did?

582
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: And I mean, like, these are the quotes you want

583
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: to be reading in a story like this. She is

584
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: so legendary. So it's November of nineteen ninety nine, and

585
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: this trial lasts three weeks, and at the end, doctor

586
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: John Schneberger is found guilty on multiple charges, including sexual assault,

587
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: administering a stupefying drug, and obstructing justice. He sentenced to

588
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: six years in prison, and he stripped of his medical license.

589
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: Thank god, this has all taken seven long years, but

590
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: Candy has finally won.

591
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: Coming till Wow that his sentence is shorter than it

592
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: how long it took to get justice?

593
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: Well, I know, I know, I know. And then and

594
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: then late two thousand and three, after serving four years

595
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 1: of his sentence, he is granted parole and released from

596
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: prison because it's just rape. Not long after that, it

597
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: is discovered that doctor Schneberger or sorry, just regular old

598
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: John Schneberger, has failed to disclose being investigated for sexual

599
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: assault during his lengthy naturalization process, so his Canadian citizenship

600
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: is deemed unlawfully obtained and it is revoked. He's deported

601
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: back to South Africa, and from what we know, he's

602
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: still there to this day. He would be in his

603
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: late sixties. In Canada, Candy has to contend with the

604
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: trauma of sexual assault and both the system and her

605
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: community failing her, but she never backs down. She develops

606
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: a film project called I Accuse based on her experiences,

607
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: and it premieres on Canadian television right around the time

608
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: that John Schnieberger is released from prison in two thousand

609
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: and three. Wow, and she says she hopes that movie

610
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: will quote inspire other survivors to come forward and face

611
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: their accusers, regardless of their apparent standing in the community. Amazing.

612
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: And that's the story of Candy's unmasking of the rapist

613
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: doctor John Schnieberger.

614
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: Wow, Candy, Oh.

615
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Shoot, we have pictures. Wait, there's that yellow sweater. Yes,

616
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: and there's Jeane Yeah, going into the arm that he

617
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: suggested at him.

618
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: He's like, it's just so evil.

619
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: And also just so bizarre. It's that kind of thing

620
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: where it's like it's so out of the realm of

621
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: any possibility or ever having happened before, where it's like,

622
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: I suspect the vein in your arm.

623
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: Totally this Ned Flanders looking motherfucker. I don't he seems

624
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: you know.

625
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are the ones totally keep your eye peeled.

626
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: Wow, great job, thank you. I feel like that's just

627
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: been on the to do list for this podcast for

628
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: ten years.

629
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe when they pitched it. I was like, wait,

630
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: we have it. I love that one. Yeah. I don't know.

631
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: I feel like this podcast is a little bit like

632
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: literally just true crime TV show Retell. That's how I've

633
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: always treated it because it's like, this is where I

634
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: got all of this from. Right. I can remember seeing

635
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: this the first time and just being like, I'm sorry.

636
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: What we wouldn't be where we are without like forensic

637
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: files and unsolved mysteries and cold case file America's most

638
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: wanted as a fucking eight year old, oh, just being like,

639
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to catch that guy. I sure, leave it

640
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: to me, right, give me that phone number again, because

641
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: I've got this.

642
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: Can I get it one more time? By the end

643
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: of the show. What's the reward?

644
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: Maybe you can help solve a mystery.

645
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a strange life, it truly is.

646
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well I have one that's not at

647
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: all anything like what you just did.

648
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: Which I'm leaving. I love when my homework is done

649
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: and then you have to do your homework.

650
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: Mine's easier than yours. My homework okay, good, and it's

651
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: short because it takes us a long time. Ago in

652
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: eighteen fourteen, my favorite, Your favorite, it's a financial hoax.

653
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: It scandalized the London stock market and it led to

654
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: an early instance of government regulation in the world of finance.

655
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: Your favorite world.

656
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I live there. It's natural to me.

657
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: You vacation there. You have a vacation home.

658
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: I have all these friends and family there in the

659
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: world of finance.

660
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: This is the story of the Napoleonic Hoax, sometimes known

661
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: as the Great Stock Market Frauds of eighteen fourteen. Hell yeah,

662
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: you know everything about this. You write your dissertation on it.

663
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: Okay.

664
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: The main source of the story is a book called

665
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: Napoleon Is Dead with an exclamation mark by Richard Dale,

666
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: and the rest of the sources are in the show notes.

667
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: Here we go. What you're taking notes? Are you taking notes?

668
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: You can take a little just out of nowhere's untho.

669
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: You're taking notes?

670
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: What are you rit B minus?

671
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: That's really good. Make that into a little plus and

672
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: take it home.

673
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: There you go, mom.

674
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: We aren't Dover, England. It's famous for its cliffs. They're

675
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: white Cliffs of Dover. Yep. They're made of white chalk

676
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: that plunge into the Strait of Dover. It's the narrowest

677
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: part of the English Channel between England and France. These days.

678
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: Around Dover is where you can get on a ferry

679
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: that will take you to call Ais, France, and it's

680
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: between these two points that the Eurostar train runs through

681
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: the Channel Tunnel. The chunnel, we love it, but this

682
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: takes place long before the chunnel. I just really wanted

683
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: us to yell chunnel together, and I did it, and

684
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: we did it. Good night, Thank you for listening to night.

685
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: In eighteen fourteen, it's around one am on the morning

686
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: of Monday, February twenty first, a man is seen wandering

687
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: the seaside front street in Dover in London, the stock

688
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: market will open in nine hours, which is just about

689
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: as much time as it'll take you to get to

690
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: the Capitol from Dover in a horse drawn carriage if

691
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: you change horses frequently. I didn't know that was the thing.

692
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: Fresh horses. That's what it's all about.

693
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: Horse to horse to horse. That's right.

694
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you don't want some oldentire horn, no.

695
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: Horses like can I high five to someone? Hi five

696
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: another horse?

697
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: And this is taking forever.

698
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: This mysterious man is tall and wearing a long gray

699
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: coat and what looks like a red military uniform.

700
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: Pull dark. That's show about a guy.

701
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: Oh got it?

702
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: What's called greatcoat? Pull dark?

703
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll watch it. We need to show. He bangs

704
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: on the door of the ship in, but gets some

705
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: patient and then starts banging on the door of the

706
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 2: pub next door, which is called the packet boat. Probably

707
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: means something. I didn't look it up. The owners of

708
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: both establishments come to the door on the same time.

709
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: I'm sure they have those like night caps, the sleepy

710
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: caps on you, sir, you the long like dress sleep

711
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: and big old chop. Yeah. The owners of both establishments

712
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: come to the door, and everyone moves inside the ship

713
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: in to have a conversation with this mysterious man. The

714
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: man who doesn't introduce himself says quote, I have this

715
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: last hour been landed on a beach from France after

716
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: traveling for two nights, and I'm the bearer of dispatches

717
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: that are the most important to be brought to England

718
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: these past twenty years. I must have horses, and in

719
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: the meantime I would be obliged if you would bring

720
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 2: me a pen and paper so I can inform the

721
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: authorities of what has passed. The pub and owner and

722
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: and keeper are like, Okay, what the fuck's going on?

723
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: This never happens.

724
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, and the officer responds with quote, do not

725
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: pester me with questions you always say in these scams,

726
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: they make you hurry, no time to think.

727
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: It's the fake authority, hurry and like the importance, like

728
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: you don't know what's going on, but this you have

729
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: to do because it's so important.

730
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: Totally. At this point, the other guests at the inn

731
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 2: have heard the ruckus and come downstairs, and the mysterious

732
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: stranger has introduced himself as Colonel de Burgh, and at

733
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: some point he gives an initial of personalitiaal of R,

734
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: but it's unclear if he ever gives a first name.

735
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: Then he says, quote, I am the bear of sensational

736
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: and glorious news, the best that could possibly be wished,

737
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: But I cannot say more secrets. I must ask you

738
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 2: to arrange with great urgency and express horse and rider

739
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: to carry a message to the Admiral at Deal, as

740
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: well as a carriage to take me to London. For

741
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: the present, I need pen, paper and ink, and I

742
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: would be obliged if you could also provide me some

743
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: refreshment to sustain me end quote well demanding for stranger

744
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night and paper food right d.

745
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: The Colonel has given pen, paper, and a bottle of

746
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: sherry so, yes.

747
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: Have you ever like drank in a real way?

748
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: People do that, right, like just like a little thimbleful

749
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: of sherry? Yes, I think I always imagine it must

750
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: be good if people like love it so much.

751
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, listeners, let us know what the sherry

752
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: experience is all about.

753
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 2: Is it really sweet? It's like cooking wine.

754
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's cooking wine. And I've always

755
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: seen it as like people taking a little, a little

756
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: nip of it in the kitchen.

757
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: Right, it seems really pie falutin and classy.

758
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we'll find out rich murdering notes,

759
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: please call in.

760
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So he writes a letter to a naval admiral

761
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: posted nearby in the town of Deal, and he writes

762
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: that he's been ordered to write to London with quote

763
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: dispatches of the happiest nature end quote, and then he writes, quote,

764
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: My anxiety will not allow me to say more for

765
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: your gratification than that the Allies obtained a final victory,

766
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: that Buonaparte was overtaken by a party of Sakin's Cossacks,

767
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: who immediately slayed him and divided his body between them

768
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: and quote, but I can't say more I can't say

769
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: much except that here's exactly detail. So what he's saying

770
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: here is that Napoleon has been killed by the Russians, obviously,

771
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: which means that the decades long Napoleonic Wars are over.

772
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: If you remember one thing about Napoleon, which I know

773
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: you remember many short in love French and also didn't

774
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: die and also yeah, exactly he died in exile, so

775
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: and also if you know the Abbe lyrics, you might

776
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: remember that he was defeated at what thank You, which

777
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: has not happened yet. The Napoleonic Wars are a series

778
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: of messy conflicts across Europe that had begun eleven years earlier.

779
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: There's some scholars say that they are really just an

780
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: extension of the one hundred year Wars between the British

781
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: and French, and they.

782
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: Just fucking hate each other each other, had been warring

783
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: it up for so long.

784
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: Nextdoor neighbors and everything. To keep thinking right, no kind

785
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: of yeah, to keep things very short. Different coalitions of

786
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: countries team up with Britain to fight against France and

787
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: It's aggressive expansion under Napoleon, and no one seems to

788
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: be quite able to beat Napoleon. So when Colonel de

789
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: Burgh shows up in Dover, presumably having sailed over from France,

790
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: saying that the war is over and Napoleon is dead,

791
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: people are fucking stoked, huge celebrations. The people at the

792
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: ship inn, we can imagine drink a shit ton of sherry, yeah.

793
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: And party Sherry's on me tonight. Boy.

794
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's like if right now, if we were if

795
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 2: someone said.

796
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: That Napoleon our goores of America would finally end.

797
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'd all fucking celebrate. Ye's in the air.

798
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna punch that TV right in, run into the streets.

799
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: The sherry would below.

800
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: The streets. The innkeeper asks one of his staff members

801
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: to take that letter to the Admiral and Deal, which

802
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: is about eight miles away, about a two hour ride

803
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 2: on horseback. So once the carriage is ready, the colonel

804
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 2: begins his ride to London. So they have someone else

805
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: go tell someone else, and then this guy gets a

806
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: horse to London. Along the way, he stops at several

807
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: other inns and pubs, changing horses. At least there's some

808
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: animal awareness awareness in the story. Yeah, and saying he

809
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: urgently needs to write a letter about some very good news,

810
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: and by the time he's gotten to one of the

811
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: later ends on his route, the innkeeper asks is it true,

812
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: like it's already spread, and colonel replies, quote, he is

813
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: dead end quote. So the innkeeper presses asking who is dead.

814
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: The colonel says Napoleon. The innkeeper he says, it's definitely true.

815
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: So the colonel gets to London around nine o'clock, an

816
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: hour before the stock market opens in the morning. It'd

817
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 2: be fun if we had an overnight stock market. I

818
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: didn't have sleepovers once.

819
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: A year and just get like food from seven to

820
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: eleven and stuff like.

821
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: On the floor of the stock market, everyone gets a

822
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: give me another coffee, killowcase, come on, told scary stories.

823
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: They just hold their ticket up kind of like I'm tired.

824
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 2: Whoever falls asleep first, I bros all their money exactly okay.

825
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 2: So the colonel then asks to switch coaches, which rides.

826
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: Tries to do so as inconspicuously as possible, but he

827
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: is seen by multiple people being dropped off at the

828
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 2: house of a member of Parliament, a man named Lord

829
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: Thomas Cochrane, a decorated formal naval admiral known to be

830
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: one of the more radical members of Parliament. So then

831
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: right when the market opens, people start trading on this

832
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: good news and buying government bonds, and the first thing

833
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: in the morning, they are trading at the same price

834
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: they were on Saturday, but very quickly the price begins

835
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: to climb. People's speculations that the war has ended rises

836
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: to a new level later that morning, when an elaborate

837
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 2: carriage is seen carrying two men who seem to be

838
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 2: wearing the regalia of French Royalists officers meaning officers from

839
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: the Bourbon dynasty, who the British sympathized with and who

840
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: would take power if Napoleon were unseated. So they like,

841
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 2: it's fucking happening, like everything's getting lined up to.

842
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: And people are like the baker's out in the street,

843
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: like that's the Bourbon.

844
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Do you know that if they take over exactly, like

845
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: everyone knows.

846
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: Also, everything was so slow back then, like somebody's like,

847
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: oh my god, this thing's happening. And they have a

848
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: letter and they hand it to a guy, and the

849
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: guy rides on a horse for eight days and it

850
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: goes somewhere else. And that's supposed to be like a

851
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: phone call. Right, there's so much hang time to lie

852
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: and do stuff totally before things can be confirmed or disproven, truly,

853
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: like just the Heyday of scams. Absolutely so.

854
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: And it's actually an early pump and dump scheme like

855
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: the one Jordan Belfort went to jail for, as chronicled

856
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: by Wolf of Wall Street.

857
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

858
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: Basically, his company sold penny stocks, spread false information about

859
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 2: the companies that people were investing in to raise the prices,

860
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: and then sold those penny stocks when they grew before

861
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 2: people realized what was going on. It's happened recently with

862
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: several cryptocurrency pump and dump schemes as well. I know

863
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 2: you fell for a lot of those.

864
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: Listen, all my money's in crypto, so I know you

865
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: take all your advice from Reddit, be podcasting till I'm

866
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: ninety eight. You know who has crypto investments too, Jim Home, Jim, your.

867
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 2: Dad has crypto investments? Now, how I don't think my

868
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: dad even he's just like that.

869
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: He always wants on a cord. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

870
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: how they do it? I think? Okay, he argues. I'm

871
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: always like I don't know, dad, and he's like, what

872
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: are you're talking about?

873
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: The One time I tried to like do it on

874
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: my own. I just bought a bunch of weed company

875
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: stock and lost everything immediately. Like I just did know

876
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: someone that I respected and liked his podcast. I listened

877
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: to his financial podcast. I listened to is. Like, I'm

878
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: telling you right now, this is going to be the

879
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: next Like.

880
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: You're a victim of his pumping dumb hers.

881
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: And oh sex system.

882
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: Me it is.

883
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna say who it is because I

884
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: you kind of are. Who is doctor Laura is?

885
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: Like who do you know that, doctor Laura Slessinger? Yeah?

886
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: Does she get financially?

887
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sucked. I don't do it by myself anymore.

888
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: Just highield savings everyone.

889
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's not for listen. If you're getting into

890
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: some sort of world of gambling on your phone, yeah no, no,

891
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,439
Speaker 1: no stock trading on your phone, any of those kinds

892
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: of things. It's too easy.

893
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: I don't even like marijuana. I don't even smoke weed.

894
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: It's not your thing.

895
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, this is it. This is

896
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: how I'm gonna get podcast. And so it appears that

897
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: these pump and dump schemes have been around for as

898
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: long as there have been stock markets, which trace their

899
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: roots back to the early sixteen hundreds in Amsterdam. Oh

900
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 2: some fucking bias. Fuck guy was like, you know what

901
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: we should do with our money? Play with it, bed

902
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 2: on things, and you know it's a great way to

903
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 2: keep the rich rich and the poor port. Yeah. The

904
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: Dutch Stock Exchange was founded to allow investors to participate

905
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: in joint stock companies like the Dutch East India Company,

906
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: which allowed individuals to buy stock in massive maritime trade expeditions.

907
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: Like many things in the finance world, it seems like

908
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: there's a fine line between behavior that is expected, like

909
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: hyping up a product you just bought, being like I

910
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,959
Speaker 2: love this blow dryer. Yeah, I love the blow dryer,

911
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: and behavior that is illegal, which is hyping up the

912
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: product with false information, with the attention to sell it

913
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 2: off quickly.

914
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: So blow dryers making my hair longer.

915
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: Right, and then so you all should buy it.

916
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: So you can't do that, Literally me on TikTok every

917
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: single day, where I'm just like, well, then I guess

918
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: I have to get the same. There's so many wonderful

919
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: products that clearly if you were at the state Fair

920
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: in the exhibition hall, you'd be like, who would buy that?

921
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: That shit you would at bingo at a state fair,

922
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: right for real? Damn?

923
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: I love it all.

924
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: I know. The key took successful pump and dump is

925
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 2: to sell off your own position before everyone gets wise

926
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: to your tricks. Yeah, so remember that. What if you

927
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 2: were the one who told me to buy all the marijuana?

928
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: I was like just weirdly whispering in your air, and

929
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know how I got this idea.

930
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: But some chick on a podcast. Oh shit, I was alive.

931
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: Every time this podcast ends, my finance podcast begins and

932
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: I give the worst advice. I don't know what I'm

933
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: talking about.

934
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: And neither drive. And here's how quickly that had to

935
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: turn around it being obvious that it wasn't true. Is

936
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: that suddenly people are like, gee, later in the day,

937
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: I wonder why this hasn't been in the news yet,

938
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: that naholy And is dead. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like,

939
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: shit's slow, but not that slow. So they get nervous

940
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 2: at the British Secretary of State has not made a

941
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: formal announcement, and by the end of the day it

942
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: becomes clear that there has been fraud, Like you got

943
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 2: to give it a couple of days so you can

944
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of town.

945
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: That's fat what I mean, just think of all the

946
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 1: free meals and sherries and beers that he got along

947
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: the way of delivering that news, like he basically just

948
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: for sure on to town for free, and then yeah,

949
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: I love it.

950
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: The price of the government bonds is back where it

951
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 2: started by the end of the day. The London stock

952
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 2: market what that's just like so like all your fucking

953
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 2: money's gone.

954
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: I literally am like, never put a dime of my

955
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: money into the stock market. You can get me some bonds,

956
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: you can get me this stuff that's guaranteed. And other

957
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: than that, no, thank you. Yeah, it's too scary.

958
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: That's why I don't look at it, and I let

959
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: someone else do it for me. My cousin smart, Yes,

960
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: he knows exactly. So the London Stock Market has its

961
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: own in house investigating team and they immediately go to work.

962
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: The first thing.

963
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: That's that right, now, that's right, it is. Oh, it's

964
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: got to be what's his face, late Alan Rickman?

965
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: Okay, but then also the other one with the cumber.

966
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: Bottom, Benedict Cumberbat.

967
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's got to be in it.

968
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: He's got to be in it. How about a nice

969
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 1: Matthew McFadden from succession and pride and prejudice.

970
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 2: Always cast him.

971
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: Yep, he can be the muscle in the back of it.

972
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: The first thing that they figure out is that the

973
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: carriage that had been seen supposedly carrying French royal officers

974
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: can be traced back to the rows In, which is

975
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: an establishment a little outside of London. I looked it up.

976
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 2: It looks like it's still there and still serving horses.

977
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: I know.

978
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: It's amazing. So they're like, hey, that carriage is from you,

979
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: And then they go there and the innkeeper's like, yeah,

980
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: I rented it out to a man named mister Sandham,

981
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: a liquor merchant who was having money problems. So the

982
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: investigators quickly track that guy down. The whole thing falls

983
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: apart very fast, as well as four other men who

984
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: had been involved in this side plot. Those four other

985
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: men immediately confess to their part in the fraud, but

986
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: they refuse to name any other names, even though it

987
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: seems like they're clearly in cahoots with whoever has profited.

988
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 2: That is a group of people, including Lord Cochrane and

989
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: the man whose house the colonel had gone to the

990
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: colonel is actually an adventurer. Hey, what a fucking cool career.

991
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Bring back that.

992
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: Mean named Charles Random de Burgner Random, Random, that fucking

993
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: first name.

994
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: I know, where did that go?

995
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 2: That's his middle name?

996
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: What if that's been a slang word this whole time

997
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: and just came back recently?

998
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: Random Charles Random.

999
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: He's just throwing money everywhere.

1000
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I love it. Who also recently had some financial difficulties.

1001
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 2: So these people who like needed money then.

1002
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: All got together.

1003
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the investigators find that Lord Cochrane and two other

1004
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: investors had invested heavily in government bonds. That's the thing is,

1005
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: you can look up who invested heavily. First it's like

1006
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: not it's not anonymous.

1007
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: But the book is really big and heavy. It's cold,

1008
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: take forever to get to that page.

1009
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: Totally, you know. So they look that up and one

1010
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: of these investors is Cochrane's uncle, a Scottish adventurer named

1011
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: James Andrew Cochran Johnston Second Adventure. Yeah, the kind of adventures.

1012
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: I guess. They don't have a lot of money, so

1013
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: they just have to go to that adventure adventure of

1014
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: the stock market. Yeah, who's known to be something of

1015
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 2: a swindler. The group had ultimately made a profit that

1016
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: it's confusing to lay out because so many people s

1017
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 2: fucked around and found out. But in today's money, it'd

1018
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 2: be do you want to guess, just out of the blue,

1019
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: how much money in today's money? It would be, even

1020
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: though we don't know, like how much money was lost, yeah,

1021
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 2: or how much money they took they how much?

1022
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 1: What the money it was? Okay, how much they made

1023
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: in one day from I don't love the term pump

1024
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: and dump, but we'll use it.

1025
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: I don't like the term chunnel, so a tim pump

1026
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: and dump and chunnel.

1027
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: This whole story is, did they make five hundred thousand dollars.

1028
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: Fourteen million US dollars in today's money?

1029
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: In today's money, yeah, so they definitely it was worth

1030
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: it to.

1031
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Dump all over the chunneled every everywhere.

1032
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: All over the They were so stoked in that chunnel,

1033
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: that's fucking crazy.

1034
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd wish one of them got away with it,

1035
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: because like that's just such a fun.

1036
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: I don't know none of them did.

1037
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: Let's see, I don't remember, I don't know. This whole

1038
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 2: thing takes only about a week to unravel. It sounds

1039
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: like this swift and angry reaction by both investors who

1040
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: had been duped and by investigators come as something of

1041
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: a surprise to Cochrane and as co conspirators, they thought

1042
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 2: they were having a good old fun making some money,

1043
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: but actually fucking pissed everyone off. Yeah, because I imagine

1044
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 2: how stoked you'd be if you heard and then it

1045
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: turns out for a.

1046
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: War that has gone on for years, right decades, right falls, hey, hey, hey,

1047
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: come on, throw that confetti in the air.

1048
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: So I left my husband because I thought, finally, like

1049
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 2: this is over and I oh shit, No. At the time,

1050
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 2: there's basically no regulation of the stock market. It has

1051
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 2: only just put out its own internal rule book, and

1052
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: so people trade on rumors all the time, and so

1053
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 2: rumors all the time. But I think that this was

1054
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: just beyond It was just too big, too outrageous, and

1055
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: ordinary investors or outrage because they already sense that people

1056
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: in power like Lord Cochrane who was in Parliament, had

1057
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: access to insider information that made them more able to

1058
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 2: get rich from investing. They already knew, Yeah, the rich

1059
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: get richer.

1060
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: It's still scammed exactly.

1061
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: Members of Parliament and members of Congress here in the

1062
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 2: US are still allowed to have interests in publicly traded companies,

1063
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: and they raise eyebrows all the time when they make

1064
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: prudent investment moves around the time that they might be

1065
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: briefed on developments. The general public does not yet know.

1066
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem fucking right at all, but we don't

1067
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: question it.

1068
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: Well, there's entire accounts on TikTok where people just follow

1069
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: right senators and governors investments and then just basically tell

1070
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: people they just moved all their money from here to here.

1071
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

1072
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 2: It's just so fucked up.

1073
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: It's very, very bad and corrupt.

1074
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 2: But what Lord Cochrane and as co consparers did does

1075
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: seem to have crossed some imaginary rich person line. He

1076
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 2: goes to trial in June of eighteen fourteen, he's found guilty.

1077
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: He's fine, one thousand pounds.

1078
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: He's like, that's fine. I have fourteen I write thirteen

1079
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: nine ninety nine.

1080
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: You want to guess how much that is in today's money?

1081
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: One thousand pounds in eighteen fourteen, I think.

1082
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: In dollars, not in pounds.

1083
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: That's gonna be sorry, A thousand dollars, yeah, to me a.

1084
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: Thousand pounds in today's money pounds dollars.

1085
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: A thousand pounds in today's money from then would be

1086
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: roughly four hundred thousand dollars.

1087
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: Seventy seven hundred thousand. Wait, yeah, seventy seven hundred thousand dollars.

1088
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: I just read seventy seven thousand. What did I say?

1089
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: Seventy seven hundred thousand, thank you.

1090
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: I was just like it could be me. I don't know,

1091
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on.

1092
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm having a stroke.

1093
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: Seventy seven hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money, totally,

1094
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

1095
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 2: So that's how much she's mine. He's ordered to stand

1096
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: in the pillary in front of the stock market embarrassing.

1097
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: Do you know what the pillary is?

1098
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1099
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: I didn't know.

1100
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: We can get your thing there. Yeah, people can come

1101
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: up and spank your butt, can't do anything about it.

1102
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's the things you put your head and arms

1103
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: into that you sometimes see as a photo op at

1104
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: like amusement parks or little towns that.

1105
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: Are really big dungeons.

1106
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1107
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1108
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: Lord Cochrane's uncle Andrew flees the country like a fucking

1109
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: smart person after this verdict. He ultimately dies in France

1110
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 2: because the Napoleonic Wars really do end. About a year

1111
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 2: after all of this happens, Lord Cochrane protests his innocence

1112
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: for the rest of his life, claiming that he had

1113
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: been set up. How I don't know, Okay. Some historians

1114
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 2: will agree that, based solely on the evidence presented at

1115
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: his trial, which spent a lot of time on whether

1116
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: the fake colonel had really been wearing red, because that's

1117
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 2: kind of inferring that it's a costume to say something's

1118
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: been happening, not just to say it's been happening. He

1119
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: should not have been convicted regardless, based on the evidence,

1120
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 2: which is mostly circumstantial, most people believe that he probably

1121
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: did participate.

1122
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it is a great, like, kind

1123
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 1: of overarching excuse to be like I was set up totally.

1124
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: We all were, Yeah, we all were.

1125
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: And yet that is the story of the Napoleonic hoax. Amazing, Yeah,

1126
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 2: a fun realm to go into totally. You know what

1127
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 2: it makes me think of, is you like the guy

1128
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: from British Bakeoff the Eyeliner Think I like him?

1129
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Don't you like weird Hoss isn't that

1130
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: your thing?

1131
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: Thank you?

1132
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: It is actually no fielding from the Mighty Boosh.

1133
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Of course.

1134
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: He has a show called Dick Turpin and they're basically

1135
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: highwaymen from this era, no way. So the second you

1136
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: started talking, I was just watching Dick Turpin's characters as

1137
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: those people were doing stuff, and I was just like,

1138
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: you should.

1139
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: Try to watch that show, Gunna.

1140
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: He's very goofy, funny and he likes to do like

1141
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: funny puns and people who are like they're highwaymen and

1142
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: robbing people, but then they're like that hurt my feeling.

1143
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: Hey, what was that one with the castle?

1144
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,919
Speaker 1: And it was the plague and oh the Cameron after

1145
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: that we talk about.

1146
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: All the time.

1147
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: Well, it was just those couple episodes we didn't get.

1148
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't our recurring show.

1149
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: Come back. It's going to come back, so we should

1150
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 2: put our money on it.

1151
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: Let's invest in you and our episodes.

1152
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 2: Let's go to kes.

1153
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: You know, we could go to Vegas and start betting

1154
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 1: on things that just happen. That's what a bunch of

1155
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 1: people are doing these days.

1156
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 2: You know, you can go and bet on baseball things.

1157
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 2: But it's like what shorts the fucking person's wearing in

1158
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: the dugout and.

1159
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: I'm talking about let's get in there, and then they're

1160
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: just start slapping down fifties.

1161
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: Okay, come on, let's do another batch of honking horays.

1162
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 2: Brought to you, Byehunday, Thanks Henday Sunday. Hi goverse. This

1163
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: is from Amanda Woods on Instagram. I knocked almost two

1164
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: thousand dollars off my debt this month. Ooh, didn't say

1165
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: how she did.

1166
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.

1167
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, none of our business. No shame in

1168
00:55:58,960 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: a paycheck.

1169
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 1: God, that's a lot of money. Good job.

1170
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've both been in debt. We know how you feel.

1171
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I was debt. It was my whole life.

1172
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: Congratulations, Amanda.

1173
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: Be like Amanda and chip it away, chip it away,

1174
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: chip it away.

1175
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: Don't pay the minimum because then you're just stuck with

1176
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: it forever.

1177
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: Okay. This one's from Hello Ashley over on Instagram, and

1178
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: it says I'm driving solo cross country with my dogs

1179
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,720
Speaker 1: to start a job in a town where I know nobody.

1180
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: So scary. That's someone who needs a serious hooray because

1181
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,280
Speaker 1: it's super brave. It's a brand new, cool, fun start,

1182
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: but also you'll still be there, so you get to

1183
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: have your journey and your dogs are going to be there,

1184
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: and your dogs will be there, and then you can

1185
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: meet people at the dog parts. Right, remember how weird

1186
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: dog people are.

1187
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 2: Okay. This one is from Ericacva on Instagram. I just

1188
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: survived a week long vacation with my family. That's it is,

1189
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 2: it sounds like, and that's not a vacation. Yeah, that's

1190
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: not when you have to survive it, it's not a vacation.

1191
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it depends on the kind of family

1192
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: you have where It's like, if you love to shout

1193
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: as a pastime and then you get all your family together,

1194
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,399
Speaker 1: well then everybody's having a good times.

1195
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 2: Right, everyone's shouting, everyone gets to do their thing. I'll

1196
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: go in your family vacation.

1197
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of yelling.

1198
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: Okay.

1199
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: This is from full name Catherine Rudden, and this is

1200
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: actually somebody who responded to our newsletter. God bless them.

1201
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: Walking down the hill to the local convenience store for

1202
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: a soda refill, I randomly found two dollars on the

1203
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: sidewalk and used it for the soda and a lotto ticket.

1204
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: And then it says I didn't win, but it was fun.

1205
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: Anticipation girl, math is that you didn't spend anything. That's right,

1206
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: You had the afternoon buy you some fun. Two dollars

1207
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: on the ground in this economy, when's the last time

1208
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: that's happened. When's the last time you found cash anywhere,

1209
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: even in your own house? Good job, cat, We're very

1210
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: proud of you. Keep those eyes peeled. Okay, this is

1211
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: from Teeka rhymes with Becka, so Teca. Hi, all.

1212
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 2: My horay is that at forty eight I started a

1213
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: new hobby, quilting.

1214
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so hard.

1215
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: I have a few good patient friends who are master

1216
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: quilters who gave me lessons, advice, and encouragement. Five years later,

1217
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: I'm proud to say I'm a pretty good quilter. If

1218
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: you ever received a homemade quilt from someone, please know

1219
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 2: that there is literal blood, sweat, and tears on that thing.

1220
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: Croyos Man, DNA, DNA, Techa, I need beca. Please know

1221
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: it is a labor of love. And there's math, so

1222
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: much math, And I am a school librarian and not

1223
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: a math teacher for a reason.

1224
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: That's it. Well, why's Techa yelling at us about the

1225
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: fact that they decided to start quilting and has nothing

1226
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 1: to do with.

1227
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: Have you ever been gifted a quilt? Yes?

1228
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: I had aunts. My great aunts aunt man Anne were

1229
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: real crafty, so there's a lot of There was quilts.

1230
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: There was crocheted blankets, crochet slippers, that kind that would

1231
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: drive your feet crazy, crochet everything. I love.

1232
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 2: Want to go to a state sale and I find

1233
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 2: something crocheted because like some person put a lot of

1234
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: effort that's watched hours and hours.

1235
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: Of the price is right.

1236
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 2: They made that thing for you, for you. You don't

1237
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: put in the lampfill, No, put it over your.

1238
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: Body, no matter how much DNA is on it. From

1239
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: Techa and her friends, Well, thank.

1240
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: You to Hyundai for presenting these honking arrays, and thank

1241
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: you guys for writing them in. Please write them in

1242
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: more and we'll read them. That's right. And also stay sexy,

1243
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 2: don't get murdered.

1244
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: Goodbye, Elvis.

1245
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 2: Do you want a cookie?

1246
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production.

1247
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 2: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1248
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: Our consulting producer is Kate Shellenbach.

1249
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: Our creative lead is Alison Agosti.

1250
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1251
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo.

1252
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Leona Squillacci.

1253
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1254
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot

1255
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: com and follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.

1256
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1257
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1258
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 2: Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for

1259
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit

1260
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: the double thumbsup button. Goodbye,