1 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: I've never intentionally been to our Bossle. I think I've 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: been in Miami one weekend that it happened to be 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: our Bossle. But can we talk about the other sort 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: of do she festivals that pretend to be about something else, 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: but they're really poser ish, meaning I hear that real 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: art collectors are not buying it or a bussle because 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: they've already bought or they've already seen. Because once our 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Bossle comes in, it becomes picked over. So you're there 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: to be a douche bag. You're literally there to name 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: drop and pose and say I'm going down for our bossl. 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: And I these these types of thing things annoy me, 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: so I don't love going to things if they don't 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: have something to do with me. It's always been my thing. 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Every year I'll get invited to one or two fashion 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: events that I could sit front row at. And the 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: only time I ever went to fashion Week was when 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: Pamela Rowland invited me and it was something to do 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: for the housewives. So that was the thing that we did. 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: But I didn't love that because it was not truthful. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: What I mean. I have nice clothes, I wear nice clothes, 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: but fashion Week doesn't really have anything to do with me. 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it just it doesn't. I don't like to 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 1: pretend that it does. It's it is a cool experience, 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: but it's sort of like there's a pretentiousness to not 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: being involved, and it must annoy the people who are 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: really involved to see the superficiality of what it's become too, 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: where it's a celebrity fest and I guess that's what 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: our bossles become. And Coachella, because isn't Coachella the musical 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: version where yes, there's amazing music there, But aren't young 30 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: girls just and I know my system would call them thoughts. 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what it means. I think it means 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: like young girls who go to Coachella. Effectively, they all 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: say that word. I don't know what it means, deep thoughts. 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like young girls that I don't 35 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: know they'll go to Coachella, I guess, um, But don't 36 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: they all just go there to wear like cross body suede, 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: fringed chack satchels and like earthy wavy like seventies sixties 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: hair and at cool? Did they really know the music 39 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: they're listening to? I don't know why. It just really 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: it's just not my personality. So Art Basel falls under that, 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: and there are other things too. It's art Bossel, Coach, 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: oh burning Man. That sounds like a land of douche 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: baggery and pos ury, but I don't know. I haven't 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: been to any of them. I went to a lot 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: of Palooza one year. It was in Chicago, was on 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: a lawn and my ax as a photographer, so we 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: went and I went to I went to the Victoria's 48 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: Secret Fashion Show with him and different events like that 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: with him. But I would always feel inauthentic because it's like, 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: I know I'm not supposed to be here. It has 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: everything to do with me. I'll stay on my own 52 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: lane and go to the things I'm supposed to go to. 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: Like when I got invited to the Emmy's, it was 54 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: not a reach because I had a TV show coming 55 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: out and I am on TV. But going to the 56 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: Grammys is a little bit of a reach unless I'm 57 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: announcing something or doing something. So I don't know why. 58 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: I just never for me. But the conductor Derby would 59 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: be relevant because I grew up at the race track. 60 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: That is douche baggery for others, but not douche baggery 61 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: for me. So there's some douche baggery that doesn't apply 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: to me. If I used to go to Sundance, I 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: used to host Chef Dance. Paul's produced a bunch of 64 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: independent films. So sun Dance another festival that was very, 65 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: very cool and authentic when it started and got douche. 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is now if it's still douche, 67 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: because independent films aren't the same as they used to 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: be in the film industry. Isn't exactly what used to be, 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: but it used to be very commercial, h what at 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: its peak. But I would have some reason to be 71 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: there because I have a history there, because I snowboard, 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: and because Paul's produced movies. So let me know about 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: your perception of these douchy events. My guest today is 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: Media Link chairman and CEO Michael Casson. He's a legend 75 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: in the advertising and marketing industry. He led Initiative Media 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: worldwide as the CEO and vice chairman from thousand one 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and helped grow the company's initial one point five billion 78 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: dollars in billings nearly tenfold. In two thousand nineteen, Michael 79 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: was even inducted into the American Advertising Federations Hall of Fame. 80 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: Michael has his own podcast on iHeart Good Company where 81 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: he talks to the biggest players in the industry. But 82 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: today we get to hear his own story firsthand. You 83 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: are going to love this conversation and there's a lot 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: of takeaway for you and how to market your business. Okay, 85 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: so most respectfully, most of the listeners will not know 86 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: who you are and know what your company does. So 87 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,559 Speaker 1: you're a different type of guests, but interesting for sure. 88 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: And nevertheless, I want I like to have different types 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: of people on corporate people, mavericks, entrepreneurs and people who 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: have really sort of climbed through an industry. So you're 91 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: an admin, is that correct? Well, yes, I mean I 92 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: I you know, media Link is a media advisory firm. Uh. 93 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: I grew up um in an interesting different kind of careers, 94 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: but for the last twenty nine years I've been in 95 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: the advertising media marketing industry. I ran the largest media 96 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: agency in the world at the time, and then I 97 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: started Media Link about sixteen years ago. And you know, 98 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: we're the leading media consulting firm in the industry. I think, Uh, immodestly. 99 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: So yes, I wouldn't say admin. But you know media, media, 100 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: media man more than ad man, but media man. That's 101 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: evolved because it used to be about advertising and it's 102 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 1: evolved into media because that whole entire landscape has changed. Yeah. 103 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: The way let me let me give you a hand. 104 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: The way I described Media Link is we're a media 105 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: or a firm that lives at the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, 106 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: and technology as they all come together. So if you 107 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: were to describe it, you could say something like that. 108 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: Just so, it's not just media, it's not just marketing, 109 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: it's entertainment, it's technology. You may forget all of those, 110 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: but if you said marketing, you know, media, advertising, technology, 111 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: and entertainment, those you'd remember and those are That's the 112 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: way we described the firm. Yeah, well, messaging and connecting. 113 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: You're in the business of messaging and connecting to the consumer. 114 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: Absolutely very much. The name of the firm, Media Link 115 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: had something to do with connectivity. Yeah, So, how have 116 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: you been able to keep up with what's going on 117 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: and how to know how to really still reach a 118 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: customer and how to advise brands that pay you, and 119 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: how to tell an average person who has a small business, 120 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: who's a lot of the people who listen here are 121 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: butting entrepreneurs and they want to know they can't afford 122 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: a publicist. They're not great at social media, you know, 123 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: they're not on the they're not a TikTok influencer. How 124 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: do you get the messaging across when there's so many 125 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: messages and it's so crowded now, way more than it 126 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: used to be. Yeah, I mean, look, um, that's the 127 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: opportunity in front of us. That's what Media Link attacked 128 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: when when I founded the firm, we saw that whether 129 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: small businesses or you know, local what we call SMB 130 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: small and medium sized businesses no different than large companies. 131 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: If you're a big company and you're used to advertise 132 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: on television on a commercial break and the world is 133 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: going to streaming, you have just as much trop trouble 134 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: or challenge as you know, Pete the plumber or or 135 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: you know Sally the hairdresser who's got to figure out 136 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: how to get the message across you, you know, with 137 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: a better utilization of social media or whatnot. I mean, 138 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, Bethany, the truth is Google and Facebook somewhere 139 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: in the range of of their revenue comes from small 140 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: and medium sized businesses. Sure, Laureale and Procter and Gamble 141 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: and general motors spend money, but the majority of the 142 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: money that is generated by Google and Facebook and the 143 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: like and TikTok and you know, are small medium sized 144 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: businesses that they can't ever have afforded a thirty second 145 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: commercial on you know, network television or cable, but they 146 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: can use social media. And so those are some of 147 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: the things that we address obviously. Yes, so you could 148 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: go down that road and we could talk about that 149 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: and how the small and medium sized businesses, which you 150 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: say comprise a good deal of your listeners, they would 151 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: understand that from the context of utilization of social media. 152 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: My question to you about the inauthenticity of a lot 153 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: of social media um and the change that so many 154 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: people have made to lean into it as an advertising tool, 155 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: as a marketing tool, as a PR tool. How is 156 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: it not getting so crowded with all of the messaging 157 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: all day long that it cancels each other out like 158 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: that that brands aren't able to be heard. How is 159 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: it possible that there are so many messages going on, 160 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: so many more than we used to have and that 161 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: we're still able to absorb all this content information. Well, 162 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, the job of a marketer, bethany or those 163 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: people who helped create the messages is to make sure 164 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: your stands out, you know, to be on a we've 165 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: always had, uh you know, a cacophony of of messages, 166 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: and you had to if you think of just watching 167 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: a television show and you know, a commercial break happens 168 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: and there's four ads in that break, how do you 169 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: make sure yours is the one that stands out? And 170 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: many times it can be three different car companies and uh, 171 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, and a drug manufacturer, and then you've got 172 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: to make sure your car ad stands out against the 173 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: other ones. It's no different than we've done. And an 174 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: entire industry sprung up around search engine optimization or social 175 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: media optimization to make sure that you know, you utilize 176 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: and take advantage of the algorithms that can get your 177 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: message to the top. It's not a surprise when somebody 178 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: types in um margarita, your name might come up okay 179 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: because it's been optimized. That's a business to make sure 180 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: that when I type in margharita, your name comes up. 181 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Oh no, I know, believe me, when you type in 182 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: you could type in shapewear and it'll come up. You 183 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: could type in skinny Girl shapewear and other brands will 184 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: come up because they've taken sort of the association of 185 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: my brand for them, and I, you know, I find 186 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: it to be well. Listen, that's that's a truth. And 187 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: if you think about product placement, if you think about 188 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: the idea of having a Coca Cola can on the 189 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: table in a movie or show, or having an Apple 190 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: computer or you know, whatever it might be, that is, 191 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, historically what's always happened, because what you're doing 192 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: is you're borrowing the celebrity one from the other. You're 193 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: taking a brand that is a celebrity in some way 194 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: and you're making it either to make it more authentic 195 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: or to focus on that brand, and you're making it cooler. 196 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: And and so that is no different than you do 197 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: with talent. By having your association, people are drawing off 198 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: and and and drafting off of the cool factor of 199 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: Bethany Frankel. So that's the that's the quid pro quo 200 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: that that people want to do. That's why you use endorsements. 201 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: That's why people ask you to endorse a product, or 202 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: your product is utilized to make somebody feel current or cool, 203 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:25,479 Speaker 1: or you know of the moment. Where are people absorbing 204 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: and consuming most of their content now? I meaning they're 205 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: where is the most effective means of getting the advertising 206 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: message through? Is that on social media? Is that on streamers? 207 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: You know? Into is it integrating products into a show? Now? 208 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: I mean? Is the super Bowl less valuable than it 209 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: used to be? Or is it more valuable because there 210 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: aren't that many commercials on? I mean super Bowl is 211 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: very valuable because it's when everybody focuses on it, and 212 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: it is the one time you know that people are 213 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: not going to get up to go to the bathroom 214 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: or do something else during themercial breaks on the super Bowl. 215 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: They might get up during the game, but they'll sit 216 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: down during the commercials. It's kind of an oddity, but 217 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: it's true. And the other time you have that is 218 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: probably on the Academy Awards. And you know, if if, 219 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: if you're to believe that awards shows still have a 220 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: presence and an importance and a relevance. Yeah, those places 221 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: are the places where you know people are gonna pay 222 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: attention to the commercial messages because there it's part of 223 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: the sort of Genessee Qua of of the football game 224 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: today in the Super Bowl. But on the other hand, 225 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: I think it's clear if you look at the amount 226 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: of revenue that's generated by Facebook and Google through advertising, 227 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: that seems to be the place people think you're gonna 228 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: get the most bang for your buck is in social media, 229 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: because again generally speaking, we reached a point where commercial 230 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: avoidance was the moment that people wanted. And I believe 231 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: that the moment you created the remote control for television, 232 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: you put commercial avoidance at the top of everyone's list 233 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: because the moment you didn't need to get up to 234 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: change the channel, but you could sit there and flip 235 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: the channel while the commercial was on. That's what most 236 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: people tend to do, and and you know, that's the 237 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: thing you want to avoid. There's a famous old saying 238 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: in advertising which has been around for more than a 239 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: hundred years, and it was something that if you remember 240 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: your you wouldn't remember, but you you probably know the 241 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: name Wanta Makers. It was a department store chain back 242 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: in the in the you know, a hundred years ago 243 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and New York and on the East Coast, 244 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: and John Wanna Maker famously said, fifty percent of my 245 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: advertising dollars are wasted. I just wish I knew which 246 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: fifty percent, right, right, That's sort of what I'm saying 247 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: to you. Break through messaging and people really don't know 248 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: where to be spent spending their money. For example, I 249 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: just said to my assistance and she was talking about 250 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: this TikTok influencer who has eight million followers, and I said, okay, 251 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: but and I know some of these influencers who come 252 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: to me to ask me how to make maximize their 253 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. And I'm thinking, you have eight million followers, 254 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: like I'm assuming somehow they're monetizing it and making money, 255 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: but I don't exactly know how. I'm sure brands are saying, 256 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: pour my salad dressing over your salad, but that's not 257 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: a real monetization. So I'm wondering, Okay, so you're a 258 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: TikTok influencer of eight million followers, how are you converting that? 259 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: So you know, if I post on Instagram and I 260 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: only get a few likes, but I'm posting just for 261 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: the information that we're doing relief work right now in Kentucky, 262 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: just so people know what we're doing. But uh, it 263 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: doesn't get that many likes. Does that mean that people 264 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: aren't going to donate as much? Or you know, if 265 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: I get so many likes because I'm wearing a bathing suit, 266 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: does that mean people are buying more products? I don't 267 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: really know exactly how it's working. There is definitely correlation. Okay, 268 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: there's definitely definitely corel lation. If if you have, if 269 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: you if if you were photographed in your Christmas reindeer outfit, 270 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: that's going to influence people. You know, I've got that 271 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: sweater with a reindeer. I should have been where I 272 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: mean or g I'd love to get it. I'd love 273 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: to find that. I mean obviously that influences people's purchase decisions. 274 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: And the way that monetization happens if you're an influencer 275 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: is either you create your own brands, as you did, 276 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: or you're endorsing someone else's brand. That's the way you 277 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: monetize it. You either have to create your own look 278 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: the greatest example, wait but before you but but but 279 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: what I'm saying is it doesn't always convert. So I 280 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: was on Bravo, which is a small audience, and it's 281 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: the it's the demo, which we'll talk about in a 282 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: little bit what the demo is and who's buying and 283 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: who people want. But it was eighteen to forty nine, 284 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: uh four years plus college two a year. That's who's watching. 285 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: Small audience and million and a half viewers. Okay, And 286 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: you know I had the fastest growing like a brand 287 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: in history at the time. I went and had a 288 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: talk show every single day on network television, syndicated show, 289 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 1: talked about the cocktail, talked about all my products. Didn't 290 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: move the needle at all. So people think that many 291 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: things are working and they're not. So I don't if 292 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: I wear if I'm making a salad and using the dressing, 293 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that people are buying dressing. People 294 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: may that audience may already know I have dressing, so 295 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: they may be sick of hearing about dressing. They may 296 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's very hard to stay on the pulse 297 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: of what's going on at all times, what you're talking 298 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: about and selling, and I see people badgering people with it. 299 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: And that's why I mentioned the online purchases I made 300 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: that I'm being badgered with discount codes on my email 301 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: and I don't want to buy from these brands anymore. 302 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: So I think that there's a line between the fifty 303 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: that's working that's not. I don't think most small businesses 304 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: really know the weirdest thing will affect the affect your 305 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: sales well, but there's you know what's interesting is they 306 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: actually do know Bethany because they check it out every 307 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: day on the cash register. Let me give you an example. 308 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: And I don't want to get too granular because it's 309 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: kind of complicated technologically, but there's been an ongoing battle, 310 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: if you will, between Apple and Facebook in this past 311 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: year on cookies and and and and the ability to have, 312 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, advertisers be able to actually know what people 313 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: are doing. And Apple put down the gauntlet and said 314 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: we're not going to let people track that way anymore. 315 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: And that had a massive impact on the small and 316 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: medium sized businesses whose lifeblood of marketing was Facebook. And 317 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: without some of the data that says tells you where 318 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: you need to go to get to Bethany as a consumer, 319 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: Facebook could become less effective. And I've heard many small advertisers, 320 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we don't use a lot of small advertisers, 321 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: but I've heard many small advertisers say that the deprecation 322 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: or the less value of the cookie technologically has had 323 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: direct and and and clear impact on their advertising and 324 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: their ability to generate revenue. So small businesses actually do 325 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: see it because they know the uplift they get in business, 326 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: or when it's not working, they see that business is down. Yeah, 327 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: but I'm saying it is sometimes it's a crapshoot. It's 328 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: the weird thing. It's something that you wouldn't have expected. 329 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: And I want to know who you who do you 330 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: think is who's the most key customer right now? Who 331 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: do people really want to be speaking to. Is it 332 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: the younger generation because they want to keep them and 333 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: nurture them and bring them with them as a brand, 334 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: or is it the purchasers or the households that the wives, etcetera. 335 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Obviously I know it depends upon the product, But where's 336 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: the sweet spot? Who should people be talking to? Yeah? 337 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: The holy grail for most marketers always has been that 338 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: hard to reach demographic of the young can sumer. Again 339 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: depending on the product, but also to your point, um, 340 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: what the consumer package goods company has camp companies have 341 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: learned is you know, the woman is the one making 342 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: more decisions about purchases than the man, if you will, 343 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: in terms of a family. So get to get to mom, 344 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: or get to the wood. Doesn't necessarily have to be 345 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: a mom, but get to the woman. She's the one 346 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: making the decisions about those kinds of purchases. Not good 347 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: to send me the message because I'm not gonna be 348 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: the person going to the supermarket or online to purchase 349 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: the goods. So you know, you go after that demo. 350 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 1: The challenge on the younger demo, and this is an 351 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: important point, is they're fickle. And the challenge on the 352 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: younger demo is I've always said, when you find them, 353 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: it may be too late. They have to find you 354 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: because when you finally get to that demo on face 355 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: book or whatever the medium might be, they're already moving 356 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: on to the next one there on to the next thing. 357 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: It's interesting and it's also interesting that, um, you know, 358 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: it has been a long time for women to be 359 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: really recognized and equal pay and equal in business. And 360 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: I think it was Warren Buffet who said, we're leaving 361 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: half of our team on the bench by not really 362 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: focusing on women, particularly if women are making the purchasing decisions. 363 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: So women are running the business effectively. They're they're so influential, 364 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: and it's such an interesting, uh you know, conversation and 365 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: construct with with men being the real business people and 366 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: women not being taken seriously, because they should be taken 367 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: so seriously, particularly in this context. I do believe marketers 368 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: look at it that way. Now you could say, uh, 369 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: look at how much money they spend, marketers spending sports, 370 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: And are you going to say that generally if it's 371 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: football perhaps versus tennis. I'm just I'm not saying that specifically. 372 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm just making the point, are you going to attract 373 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: more male viewers or more female viewers? You've got to 374 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: look at it through that lens. To my bed is 375 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: in football, you're gonna attract more mail viewers, and maybe 376 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: in in golf, you know, I don't. I'm guessing you're 377 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: going to attract I do know you're gonna attract more 378 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: mail viewers. But in gaming, the surprise has been there's 379 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: a lot more women gamers than people initially thought. So 380 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: you can reach women in gaming, not just young guys 381 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: you know who are gamers. There's a lot of there's 382 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: a high percentage of gamers that are women. And marketers 383 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: realized that. So you're going to find products that might 384 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: be targeted to women showing up more in gaming than 385 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: you might have guessed. You know, on paper, you'd go, oh, 386 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: well that must be you know, you know, grungy gamers 387 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: hanging out, and you know, no, it's you're gonna find 388 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: the demographic is much more diverse than you thought. And look, 389 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: we have the same challenge bethany on diverse audiences. Where 390 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: do you reach those diverse audiences? Do you reach a 391 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: black audience on b ET or do you reach a 392 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: black audience on ABC? And then what's the what's the 393 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: or both obviously? And and do you reach a Spanish 394 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: Hispanic audience, a Latin audience on Univision or do you 395 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: reach them on general market? You're going to reach them 396 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: in both places. Where is the predominant, you know, grouping? 397 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: So those are the kinds of decisions that media strategists 398 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: help marketers make. And also where do you break through? 399 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: And that you could you could reach them in both, 400 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: but there might be so much other messaging that you 401 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: might not be able to break through in one place. 402 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: That's why it is, It's true you have to be 403 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: very innovative and look at the landscape and look what 404 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: other people are doing. And sometimes you have to throw 405 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: the spaghetti at the wall when you're marketing well exactly, 406 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: and you hope you said it cleaner than I would. 407 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: You hope it sticks. You said spaghetti. I might have 408 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: said something else, but you throw it against the wall 409 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: and hope it sticks. What have your biggest win has 410 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: been in your career? Your biggest financial you know wins uh, 411 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: I guess investments, business investments, and one of your biggest 412 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: uh media idea has been your biggest wins. And then 413 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: your biggest failures and mistakes, things that you just missed. 414 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: My biggest win was when I met my wife and 415 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: married her. That was my biggest Maybe the biggest win 416 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: was when we had our kids and grandkids. That's the 417 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: biggest win for me. Well, career, we're talking about career wise. Um, 418 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: when I transitioned into the media business back in the 419 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: early nineties, because I'm old, just to put it out there, 420 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: I'm seventy one years old. So I started when I 421 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: was pretty old in the media business. I had practiced 422 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: as a tax lawyer for ten years and then I 423 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: was running a home video comp me back in the 424 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: mid eighties at the time the largest independent home video company. 425 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: And then I transitioned into the media advertising marketing business 426 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: when I was in my early forties, so that's not 427 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of g I started there and I was forty 428 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: three years old when I came into the media marketing 429 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: and advertising business now professionally as a lawyer, had represented 430 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: companies in that business, so I understood the business, but 431 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: as a lawyer, not as a practitioner. So I made 432 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: that transition kind of at what some would consider my midlife. 433 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm a I'm a believer that I'm going 434 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: to live to a hundred and twenty, so, uh, you know, 435 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm just passing midlife, you know, reasonably speaking and optimistically. 436 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: But um, I would say the biggest career win for 437 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: me was the founding of Media Link, uh seventeen years 438 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: ago and I was able to accomplish uh, something that 439 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: I didn't think was doable, which an idea that I 440 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: had on the back of an envelope really turned into 441 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: a business that today is a pre eminent player on 442 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: the field. As I would say, the leading you know, immodestly, 443 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: the leading media strategy boutique in the world. And we 444 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: had a great moment four years ago when we sold 445 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: the company to a British based public company called Essential, 446 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: And that was a pretty successful journey for me and 447 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: one that I'm still very much on. The they wanted 448 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: you in, they wanted to keep you, oh yeah, and 449 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: I and they weren't getting rid of me. Uh you know, 450 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: they'll they'll kick me out with the uh you know, 451 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: I'll be the last person to turn the lights off. 452 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: I learned a long time ago, Bethany, that if you 453 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: enjoy what you do, work is not a four letter word. 454 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: And I really enjoy what I do, and therefore I 455 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: hope I can continue to do it as long as, 456 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: uh they laugh at my jokes. And what has been 457 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: your biggest miss? That's something you just didn't see, something 458 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: you didn't catch something someone did and you just hit 459 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: yourself on the head and said, what the hell, how 460 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: did we not do that? Oh? Gosh, um. You know, 461 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: if you look at that through the lens of lens 462 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: of investment, what was the biggest miss in an investment? 463 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: I sold Amazon stock way, way, way, way too early. 464 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: I was somebody who at the beginning owned a fair 465 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: amount of it in the early two thousand's, very early 466 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: two thousand's, and I believed in it, but I was 467 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: able to be talked out of it by someone said 468 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: they'll never make a profit, and and and and by 469 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: the way, there were a lot of people who said that. 470 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 1: And the Amazon stock everyone I know has that story 471 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: of Koulda would have shoulda. That's one that I can 472 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: point to and say my gut was right. And I 473 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: allowed my gut to be second guest by others, and 474 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: I said, you know, you may be right. This may 475 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: be one of those that doesn't ever see light a day. 476 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not crying about it, but it's 477 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: one that I know. I was there, I was in it, 478 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: and I got out of it. Well, it happens, right, Um, 479 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: do you read endless amounts of information? I can't imagine 480 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: you have to. Don't you have to know so much? Well? Uh, 481 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, it gets to management style as much as 482 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: it does curiosity. For me, I stole an expression from 483 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, a woman by the name 484 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: of Wendy Clark, when she described herself and she's a 485 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: very senior executive in the advertising industry. She runs Densu, 486 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: which is one of the large advertising agencies globally and 487 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: Wendy and I give her full credit for this described 488 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: herself which I stole, but I give her credit so 489 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not stealing because I told her. She 490 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: described herself and I described myself as a micro nowher 491 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: not a micromanager. I like to know a lot. I 492 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: like to know everything I can. I don't have to 493 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: make every decision for everyone, and I don't have to 494 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: manage everything, but that goes to my thirst for knowledge 495 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: and reading and and understanding. So I do read a lot, 496 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: and I and I read a lot of varied opinions 497 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: so that I can then, you know, kind of conflate 498 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: and bring them together into what my opinion is going 499 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: to be. But I need those I need those inputs, 500 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: and so I do. I'm a voracious reader, you know, 501 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: full stop. That's what this podcast is. It's listening to 502 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: so many different very successful business people, moguls that are 503 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: so varying in their success, from Dave Portnoy to Matthew 504 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: McConaughey to Hillary Clinton, I mean Mark Cuban, and people 505 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: then create their own toolbox. You're listening to so vastly 506 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: different ways of doing business and then finding things that 507 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: you seeing these people, we've all had mentors of some 508 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: sort or another. I'm a big believer in that. I 509 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: happen to be on the board of Big Brothers, Big Sisters, 510 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: the national organization because I'm a big believer in mentoring, 511 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: and I mentor people every day of my life. And 512 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: I know how important it is, especially when you're looking 513 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: at really young people, which you know the Big Brothers 514 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: Big Sisters are dealing with. You know, kids all the 515 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: way up through college and beyond, but certainly it's most 516 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: important at those ages. And I'm a big believer in that. 517 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: And you learn from people at all stages. I can 518 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: learn as much from the receptionist in a company as 519 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: I can from the CEO. If I pay attention, I 520 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: may learn different things, but I learned I learn a 521 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: lot from people. I don't absorb. I don't read a 522 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: fraction of what you do. I'm I but I am 523 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: a crowdsourcer of information. I'm always listening, I'm always watching. 524 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm a crowdsource of information, and I'm an idea hamster. 525 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: That's sort of my thing. You said that you're a 526 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: micro no er. I'm an idea hamster. Um, so, what 527 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: did you think of the Peloton A couple of things. 528 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: What did you think of Peloton not putting that close 529 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: in it says you can't disparage the brand even though 530 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: we're so excited that you're including it in the next 531 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: version of Sex in the City, that somebody that had 532 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: to happen. I've been through this where you know it's 533 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: tempting and it's rushed, and it's a contract. You can't 534 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: include a brand in something if you don't know the context. 535 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: So what do you think of that? Yeah, well, I 536 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: think you know. Look, I'm a big fan of Peloton. 537 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: John Foley, the founder CEO, is a good friend and 538 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: personalizing and his wife grew up with my daughter and 539 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: went to junior high in high school with my daughter, 540 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: so I know his wife since she was twelve years old. 541 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: And I'm a big fan of John's And that's the danger. 542 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: You know, the old joke is any press is good press, 543 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: and we all know that that's not always the case, certainly, 544 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: And we also know we're in a world where, you know, 545 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: we could walk down the woke world stuff, but we're 546 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: in a world where what you once thought would land 547 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: a certain way doesn't land that way anymore. And I 548 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: will talk about that with the context of humor. You know, 549 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: I was blessed with a father who was an extraordinarily 550 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: witty guy who you know, was successful in his chosen field, 551 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: but what he should have done his stand up comedy. 552 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: He was that good. And you know I inherited that, 553 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: And it's one of the greatest gifts I ever got, 554 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: was to be able to turn a phrase with some 555 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: humor attached to it and tell a good joke and 556 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: kind of look at life through a lens of not 557 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: everything's funny, but try to find the humor, and everything, 558 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: even in sadness, you can find humor. And it's a 559 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: good it's a good medicine if you will. And I've 560 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: said for the last few years as we look at 561 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: this world we live in today of being so politically correct, 562 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: and appropriately so in many cases, but I say, look, 563 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: I grew up with a father who would tell a 564 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: joke about anything. And one thing I knew for sure, 565 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: he never ever once told a joke that was intended 566 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: to be anything other than funny. It wasn't intended to 567 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: hurt your feelings, it wasn't intended to make you feel bad. 568 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: It was intended to be funny, but that doesn't work 569 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: anymore because what we say. You know, we all have 570 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: learned words matter and words can hurt. So even if 571 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: you think they're funny, the person receiving it might not. 572 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: And the sensitivity of people is at such a fever 573 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: pitch now that you can't say anything. I will tell 574 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: you a story. As we got on this conversation, I'm 575 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: going to disagree with you in a minute, so I 576 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: want to hear when we got on this conversation. Is 577 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,239 Speaker 1: it okay in the world we live in today for 578 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: me to comment on what you're wearing because I think 579 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: it's adorable and I think it's holiday season? Or have 580 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: I crossed the line? And is that not appropriate conversation? 581 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: Here's the thing that I think it's funny that you said, 582 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: because I've been thinking about all presses good press lately 583 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: more than ever, because I don't agree. I don't like 584 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: that feeling. I don't like teetering on the edge of cancelation. 585 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: I'm an edgy person. I speak my mind. We've had 586 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: a lot of issues discussed on the show and they've 587 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: gotten picked up in the press, and I've thought for 588 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: my whole career speak when you really have something to say. 589 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: But I'm not really interested in being written about in 590 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: a salacious way. And I don't mess with the press 591 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: because they're like the ocean and you can get whacked 592 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: in a bad series of waves, and you don't cozy 593 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: up to the press. They're a vehicle and it's great 594 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: for when you want to talk about something, but you're 595 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: not interested in being in there at any cost. What 596 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: I would say, Bethany, is what I always learned is 597 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: a reporter, when they're doing their job, you can't be 598 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: friends with a reporter. Can be friendly, but you're not 599 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: friends because when the reporters doing their job, they can't 600 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: be looking at it through the lens. Well that's my friend. 601 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that. So you should always 602 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: know that when you deal with the press, they're not 603 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: your friend. They're doing your job. But if you're friendly, 604 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: you could get the benefit of the doubt. But that's 605 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: just good advice. People should look listen to that and 606 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: learn from that. It cuts both ways with that. But 607 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: so my thing is recently I've been thinking not for myself, 608 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 1: because I just it's not for me, but that all 609 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: press it seems to be good pressed with the way 610 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: society has been. So if you think about it, anybody 611 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: who's teetered on the edge of cancelation for the most part, 612 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: with the exception of you know, rape, are going to 613 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: jail or the threat of going to jail, like really 614 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: bad stuff, everybody who's teetered on the edge of cancelation, 615 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: this pendulum swings right back. Okay, the pendulum swings right 616 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: back because someone is you know, it's it's discussed their 617 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: body image or something about them, and then all of 618 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: a sudden they change that and they have a comeback, 619 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: or someone says something terrible and they've learned for their mistakes, 620 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: or they were drinking and now they're recovering. They get 621 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: to have that be a moment. And I feel that 622 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: everyone keeps talking about cancelation is real. It doesn't seem 623 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: to be that real. It seems to be people get canceled, 624 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: they have their may a culpa, And because of all 625 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: this information that is being digested and processed so quickly 626 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: in social media, it turns give me some people that know, 627 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: because I could say that Nick Cannon Jewish comment, he's back, 628 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: He's back. Christie Teagan issue she came back, more followers, 629 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: more engagement, more famous. I can't think of anybody besides 630 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lower. I can't. I can't think 631 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: uh so the bill O'Reilly, I can't think of that many. 632 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: Most people swing right back. You know, famous people have 633 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: a different set of facts than people who are not famous. 634 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: You're talking about the examples of the more famous people 635 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: who can apologize and get that second chance. The less 636 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: famous people are getting canceled in ways that they can't 637 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: come back because their liabilities and they're not worth the 638 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: rid like and they're not worth the risk. It's exactly right. 639 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: I also think that if it's a situation where someone 640 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: proclaims to be flawed or isn't perfect, like a Christy 641 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: Tagan who's self deprecating or Nick Cannon, they they come 642 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: back can be more easily digested because they've never said 643 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: that they're so perfect or so good. I think people 644 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: paint themselves into the perfect corner and then they do 645 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: something wrong and people are just want to pull them 646 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: right down. It's just a very interesting dynamic. Bethany, are 647 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: you familiar with the concept of Shaw and Freuda? Yep, Okay, 648 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: you know I'm somebody who can tell you in my life, 649 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: I've never been somebody who subscribes to Shawan and Freuda. 650 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: I do not ever enjoy ever. Well, maybe once or twice, 651 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: but I generally, I could say almost a hundred percent 652 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: of the time don't enjoy someone else going through a 653 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: tough time because I just know it's not fun and 654 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,439 Speaker 1: I know it's not okay, and I don't wish full harm. 655 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm a well wisher. I'm not somebody who wishes other 656 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: people harm. I wish other people well. And you know, 657 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: I've always described the difference between people who are greedy 658 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: and people who are hungry. I always want to deal 659 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: with people who are hungry, putting that in economic terms, 660 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to deal with people who are greedy 661 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: because if I'm hungry, I want to get satisfied. But 662 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: I'm okay with you getting satisfied, and that the next 663 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: person greedy is I want it all. When people are 664 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: shoving their success or how great they are, how santimonious 665 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: they are, down your throat, then you're just sort of 666 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: excited when they take a fall or I find that 667 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: celebrities in particular flaunting how perfect, how rich they are, 668 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: how perfect their lives are, how perfec pick their relationships are, 669 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: how romantic the gifts are, how great they get to travel, 670 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: and you're watching it and you're happy for them, and 671 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: people are you know, are going on the ride. But 672 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: that person, those people aren't sharing the flaws in their 673 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: relationship and the flaws in their life. So then when 674 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: they get snapped up, that's why the view, the viewer 675 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: and the fan is pulling them back down. I felt 676 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: the responsibility when I had a reality show to share 677 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: the challenges of my relationship, which were not easy. I 678 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: felt like I'd taken them on this fairy tale and 679 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't not share the nightmare too, Bethany, only because 680 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: this is very relevant in this conversation. What I've tried 681 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: to do is look at life um kind of like 682 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: a television series. I don't mean that the way you 683 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: think I mean it. There are many shows that that 684 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: I really like. But I've seen a pick Pick any friends, 685 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: pick you know, Seinfeld, pick Curb, your tho, whatever, whatever 686 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: you're show of choices, whatever that show. And if you 687 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: look at what we call and you know the term 688 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: run of run of run of show um versus episodic. 689 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: It's one way to look at life. If I look 690 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: at the run of show of anybody your name here, 691 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: I look at that person and say, did they have 692 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: every episode perfect? Or did they have a flaw over 693 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: here or a blemish over here? And was there one 694 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: episode in their life? Taking the analogy of a TV show, 695 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: was there one episode that actually didn't like? And the 696 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: answer is probably yes. But was I willing to write 697 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: off the whole show because I didn't like one episode? No. 698 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: I looked at the run of the show and I said, 699 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: and I look at people this way and the run 700 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: of show, this person's had a good quality life, and 701 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, is caring and does the right things. They 702 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: screwed up over here, they said something they shouldn't have. 703 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: They were trying to be funny, they they shouldn't have. 704 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: Whatever it may be. I tiedle look at life and say, a, um, 705 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: that's how you need to examine it. And I also 706 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: have a unique, I think unique view of friendships. I 707 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: read a great quote somewhere I name, I know the 708 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: name of the book, but I don't know the name 709 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: of the person that this quote is attributed to. But 710 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: it really stuck with me. And it said, the definition 711 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: of a friend is somebody that when you've made a 712 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,919 Speaker 1: fool of yourself, doesn't think you've done a permanent job. 713 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: So if something is your friend, the initial I had 714 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: a Rabbi friend of mine once who said to me, 715 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, Michael, if if I find out that a 716 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: friend of mine killed somebody or shot somebody, the first 717 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: question maybe what did that person do to deserve it? 718 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: Because I'm going to give my friend the benefit of 719 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: the doubt. Now I may find out my friends a murderer, 720 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: God forbid, but my first reaction is going to be 721 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: what did that person do to deserve to get shot? 722 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: And again, if you look at life that way, it 723 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: doesn't have to just be friends. If if you're a 724 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 1: celebrity that I have liked and followed and enjoyed your music, 725 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: or a sports you know, uh, someone in sports that 726 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: I've admired your career and your accomplishments and your successes 727 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: and failures. Am I willing to give you the benefit 728 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: of the doubt? That's really it. Do I think as 729 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: a friend or a fan? Let me let me expand 730 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: that definition. Do I think when you've done something to 731 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: embarrass yourself it's a permanent job or is it just 732 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: a bad moment. I think that's where you get into 733 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: the do you go all the way to cancelation or 734 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: do you get a second chance. I've always believed that 735 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: we as a as a people broadly people should get 736 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: a second chance. Absolutely absolutely um And just to finish 737 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: up the Peloton conversation, I love their shift, their pivot. 738 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 1: I love their forty eight hour commercial and just going 739 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: with a fish are and not backing down and finding 740 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: the humor and leading into it. I tweeted today that 741 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: I think that they should uh do something to the 742 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: song by the BGS staying Alive like some disco spin 743 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: glass workout, and really lean into it for their customers 744 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,359 Speaker 1: and just be like, we get the joke, We're part 745 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: of it. I love it. Bethany, when they did that 746 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: commercial years ago, you know, the couple in the apartment, 747 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: and everyone said, oh, that's great, that's great if you're 748 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: rich or whatever. I was somebody who looked at and 749 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: go I wasn't. I wasn't offended by the commercial. I 750 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: thought it was a perfectly fine commercial. This sex in 751 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: the city issue, that's the risk of being a celebrity, 752 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: whether you're a celebrity as a person or a brand. 753 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's it could go both ways. 754 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: It's a rose, it has it has pedals and cuts 755 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: both ways. Okay. The last question is for small business owners. 756 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 1: Are any business moguls entrepreneurs, what are your top three 757 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: tips for marketing for getting message out there, for just 758 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,280 Speaker 1: promoting your business or your brand or your idea. Understand 759 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 1: who your customer is? That's number one. First and foremost, 760 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: Who are you trying to reach? How are you trying 761 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: to attract them? So the who okay, I think you 762 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: need to know that. Um, it's no different than when 763 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: we do strand standard media planning. You look at first, 764 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 1: you do the research and you determine who's your customer, 765 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,760 Speaker 1: who do you need to reach? Second, you do the planning, 766 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: which is okay, now that I know who my customer is, 767 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: I need to know. I now know where I can 768 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: reach them social media, television, a billboard on the Sunset 769 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: Strip or Times Square or you know, on main Street anywhere, 770 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: USA or anywhere in the world. And secondly, it's the 771 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: execution of that. Okay, I know who I not I 772 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: want to reach, I know where I think I have 773 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: the best likelihood of reaching them, and now I have 774 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,760 Speaker 1: to make sure I execut you to properly to deliver 775 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: that message. So you have to really know who your 776 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: consumer is and understand though that first, because if you 777 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: get that wrong, then you're gonna get it wrong on 778 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: where you reach them and how you reach them. Right. 779 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: So that's I think the first and foremost rule. Understand 780 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: who your customer is? Okay, and what if you only 781 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: have ten thousand dollars, how are you spending it to 782 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: reach this customer? Oh gosh, um, it's a tough question 783 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: to answer because if you're a small business in a 784 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: small town, you're buying a billboard more likely on the street, 785 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: that might be the best way to attract it. It's 786 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: gonna depend there's too many there's too many facts and 787 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,760 Speaker 1: circumstances there, Bethany for me to give a real answer 788 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: that anybody could hang their hat on, because there's too 789 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: many variables in that conversation. Now that being said, all 790 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,839 Speaker 1: the time in our business, when we're called in by 791 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: a marketer to determine who their best agency partner is, 792 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: who's the best advertising age and see one of the 793 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 1: tests you give them generally is say we're going to 794 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 1: introduce a new product, we have a budget of X, 795 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: how would you spend it? That's how we do it. 796 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 1: So it's the same question you've asked now. The answer, 797 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: the reason I can't answer it here is I don't 798 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: have another product. I don't know enough about the consumer 799 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: you're trying to reach. If it's local, it's going to 800 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: be one thing. If it's national, it's going to be 801 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: another thing. If it's about travel, maybe it's in the airport, 802 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: maybe you know, there's too many variables there. My answer 803 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: would be years ago. I remember it was the people 804 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 1: who started pirates Booty. They at that time, I think 805 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: it was Pirate's Booty, and they had said, and this 806 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be about food, and it's a metaphor 807 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm about to say, but they said, we don't spend 808 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: money on advertising. We want to get the product in 809 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: people's mouths. And they always remembered that because it meant 810 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,360 Speaker 1: you just want to get people to understand what it 811 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: is that you're doing, selling what is happening, versus just 812 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: spending money on some messaging that might not connect to 813 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: the customer. So look, the Holy Grail today Bethany. For 814 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: a marketer, is you want to um, make sure you 815 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: read reach the right person at the right time, with 816 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: the right message in the right context, you know, looking 817 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: for all those things that are good. That's good, that's 818 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: people should write. Take their journal out and write these 819 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,919 Speaker 1: notes down and check all these boxes. It has been 820 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: such a pleasure, and I feel like it was great 821 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: takeaway for people who would really listen to just garner 822 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: business and marketing information. Well, Bethany, it was a pleasure 823 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: and and you know it was authentic from your perspective, 824 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: and I hope for mine and I appreciate it. And 825 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: I do love your reindeer. Ah. Thank you that I know. 826 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,919 Speaker 1: I've been wearing a onesie forever for those of you listening, 827 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: I've been wearing this onesie pretty much all weekend. I 828 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: I have different onesies, but this one I'm really a 829 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: fan of. So I appreciate you. Happy holidays, uh, and 830 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: send the same to your family and have a wonderful 831 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: New Year. Thank you and you as well. So that 832 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: was very interesting. I wanted to give this gift to 833 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: you because I know that so many of you are 834 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: business people, entrepreneurs. You have an idea, you want to 835 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: be out on your own, and it's very difficult to 836 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: understand exactly what to do, how to spend your time, 837 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: how to spend your money, and how to market your 838 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: business or idea. So I wanted to give this conversation 839 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: to you to get some free advice so you can 840 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: really figure out exactly how to reach your audience in 841 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: the most efficient economical manner. So I hope you enjoyed it. 842 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: I think there was a lot of good takeaway that 843 00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: you could scribble down on a notepad and make your 844 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: business a huge success. So thank you so much for listening. 845 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: Remember to rate, review and subscribe and have a terrific day. 846 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 1: M