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Speaker 1: Now. The movie was produced and directed by filmmaker Stephen

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee and includes interviews with several people from the world

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Speaker 1: in politics, including Script's news contributors Steve Schmidt, founder of

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Speaker 1: the Warning podcast, a newsletter and they join us now,

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Speaker 1: mister Milwaukee and Stephen always Steve, good to see you,

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Speaker 1: mister Milwaukee. What led you to make this film, especially

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Speaker 1: in the way.

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Speaker 2: That you did.

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Speaker 3: Well. It was the fact that Trump got elected in

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and I was completely surprised that a lot

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Speaker 3: of people in my bubble were surprised. I realized I

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Speaker 3: didn't know what was happening in the country, and I

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Speaker 3: made the film to find out. And I just discovered

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Speaker 3: in the history of the last forty five years the

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Speaker 3: roots of what's going on now basically, I mean, so

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Speaker 3: that's that's why I decided to make the film, little

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Speaker 3: thinking that I would understand that demonization and the whole

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Speaker 3: pro life movement were the result of a business deal

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Speaker 3: between a televangelist and the Republican Party strategist of nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty to get Reagan elected. And that's why when people

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Speaker 3: see the film, it connects the dots and it helps

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Speaker 3: them understand a little bit about the situation.

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Speaker 4: We're in now, and Steve, what are the differences between

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Speaker 4: Christianity and Christian nationalism? We talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, well, Steve says that you'll connect Steve.

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Speaker 4: Oh sorry, yeah, we have to clarify here.

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Speaker 5: Well, Christianity is a faith. Christian nationalism is a political dogma.

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Speaker 5: And when you talk about Christian nationalism, the important word

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Speaker 5: to focus on is nationalism. That's the poisonous word, not

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Speaker 5: Christian nationalism, national socialism, nationalism. The opposite of patriotism and

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Speaker 5: Christian nationalism is what fascism looks like with an American character.

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Speaker 5: There's a quote attributed to Sinclair Lewis that he never said,

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Speaker 5: but it's that when fascism comes to America, it will

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Speaker 5: be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross. So

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Speaker 5: what Christian nationalism holds is that there is a small

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Speaker 5: group of people who will tell you that they are

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Speaker 5: acting under the banner of God's providence, that they seniorly

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Speaker 5: can interpret his word, and that they will exercise that

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Speaker 5: word through political power. And the point I'm making the

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Speaker 5: film is the places where those societies exist where that

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Speaker 5: holds true, are the most evil places on earth. There

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Speaker 5: is a fictional palt of what this looks like. It's

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Speaker 5: The Handmaid's Tale. There is a real world example of

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Speaker 5: what this looked like looks like, and it is the

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Speaker 5: Taliban in Afghanistan with a philosophy of subjugation and cruelty

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Speaker 5: in the name of God. And what's particularly perverse about

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Speaker 5: it with regard to Christianity and the invocation of Christ's

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Speaker 5: messages that he, of course was a great apostle of peace,

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Speaker 5: that he was the man who delivered the Sermon on

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Speaker 5: the Mount. This movie begins with a Christian nationalist attack

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Speaker 5: on the Capitol. Let me also add Eric Rudolph, the

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Speaker 5: Atlantic Olympic bomber, is a Christian nationalist. Timothy McVeigh was

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Speaker 5: a Christian nationalist that when there were American Nazis that

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Speaker 5: filled Madison and Square Guard and there were giant banners

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Speaker 5: of George Washington filled with crosses and swastikas. So this

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Speaker 5: is here as present. It's real, and it's extremely dangerous,

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Speaker 5: and this bill highlights it historically, but also the clear

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Speaker 5: and present dangers it exists in this moment and how

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Speaker 5: it will influence.

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Speaker 2: The next And Steve sticking with you before we get

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Speaker 2: back to mister Lackey, Why has this Christian nationalism, this

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Speaker 2: movement been effected as a political tool or maybe the reverse.

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Speaker 2: How has it morphed into more of the politics, and

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Speaker 2: why is so successful?

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Speaker 1: Is it a level of fear behind it? And that's

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Speaker 1: at the core.

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Speaker 5: Fear is always an essential component of all autocratic movements.

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Speaker 5: But it's important to understand historically, all the way back

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Speaker 5: to the arrival of the Mayflower, you had religious seeker

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Speaker 5: and you had people on the boat accompanying them who

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Speaker 5: were looking for opportunity that they refer to as strangers.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't very long before there were settlements in Massachusetts,

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Speaker 5: before there were witch hunts. This strain has always existed

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Speaker 5: in American life. When the ku Klux Plan organized, they

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Speaker 5: did so under the banner of God. And this is

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Speaker 5: important to understand. It doesn't mean that God is corrupt,

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Speaker 5: and it doesn't mean that the teachings of Christ are

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Speaker 5: It just means that those men are. But this dogma

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Speaker 5: is particularly and peculiarly American. And this is what American

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Speaker 5: fascism looks like. When we think about this, sometimes we

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Speaker 5: look at what German fascism looked like in the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 5: It's alien, it's distant. Americans would never dress like that

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Speaker 5: and goostep around. It looks different here and in the

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Speaker 5: twenty first century. This is the manifestation of a virus

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Speaker 5: that goes all the way back to the very beginning.

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Speaker 5: And this virus is antithetical to democracy because it says

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Speaker 5: at its core that there is a small group or

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Speaker 5: gained by God, who singularly hear his message and they

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Speaker 5: will use it to rule that they will not just

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Speaker 5: make the law, they are the law, because they are

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Speaker 5: the word. That is a recipe for evil. This country

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Speaker 5: has a separation of church and state. There is no

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Speaker 5: government mandated religion. The president is not a religious figure.

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Speaker 5: We are a country of deep faith, but we separate

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Speaker 5: our politics and faith, not faithfulness. There is a place

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Speaker 5: at the table for all Americans of faith to be

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Speaker 5: involved in politics. This is different, This is deadly. This

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Speaker 5: is very dangerous.

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Speaker 4: And Stephen Urlocky questioned to you, we talk about what

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Speaker 4: you learned while making this film that really most surprised you.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it was the fact that the way

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Speaker 3: the evangelicals were very apolitical and the Republican strategist wire

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Speaker 3: was trying to figure out a way to get them

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Speaker 3: to join up with Republican Party. The televangelist leaders had

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Speaker 3: a big problem. They wanted to keep their segregated Christian

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Speaker 3: academies tax free, but that was no longer possible, so

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Speaker 3: they decided they needed some help from the Republicans. The

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Speaker 3: big problem was this, the evangelicals did not believe in

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Speaker 3: the political arena. They were not voting. They did not vote.

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Speaker 3: So their leaders tell them that the Republican Party is

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Speaker 3: the party of God and that the Democratic Party is

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Speaker 3: the party of the devil, and then they'll vote the

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Speaker 3: right way. And because these people believe that every word

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Speaker 3: that came from their preachers was directly for God speaking

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Speaker 3: to them, they did it. They joined up. They got

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Speaker 3: Reagan elected with twenty two percent of the evangelicals voting

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Speaker 3: Republican who hadn't voted before, and of course now the

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Speaker 3: latest thing with Trump, they went up to like eighty

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Speaker 3: one percent. But it all was part of a business deal.

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Speaker 3: It was all part of a way in which they

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Speaker 3: leaders could get their followers to actually do what they

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Speaker 3: wanted so that the leaders could enjoy potentially the relief

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Speaker 3: from the Supreme Court to overturn all those many things

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Speaker 3: that they were against, integration, women's rights, gay rights, all

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Speaker 3: the things that they were against. They sought help from

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party in return for their votes. So the

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Speaker 3: demonization started way back then, the demonization, and which was

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Speaker 3: not easy because Jimmy Carter was actually born again. But nevertheless,

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Speaker 3: they followed the lead of their pastors, their preachers, who

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Speaker 3: were in it for the money. And today we have demonization,

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Speaker 3: we have division in the country, and it was all

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Speaker 3: because of a business deal that was made between Republican

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Speaker 3: strategists and the televangelists. To me, that was hugely surprising,

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Speaker 3: and that the divisiveness in the country was also part

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Speaker 3: of a plan. That the fact that if people have

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Speaker 3: feel that they don't trust their institutions, well, at a

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Speaker 3: certain point, the extremists realized that they would have to

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Speaker 3: weaken the institutions to take power, and so the divisiveness

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Speaker 3: of the trust of institutions that is now current was

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Speaker 3: part of their plan to take oak. To take power,

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Speaker 3: they had to get rid of majority rule because they

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Speaker 3: knew they would never be the majority, and so they

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Speaker 3: that's where we are today, all right.

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Speaker 1: Producer director Stephen Ulocki and Steve Schmidt. Thank you both

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Speaker 1: for your time this morning. Again, the movie Bad Faith

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Speaker 1: is being released on streaming platforms starting today. Thank you, guys,

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Speaker 1: uch

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Speaker 5: Thank you all right before