1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays 3 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 2: at seven am Eastern on Apple car Player, Android Auto 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 2: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: I don't know fixed income market. I feel like I 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: can just sit around in my two year US Government 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 3: Treasury bond and get four point two percent. 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 4: I don't need to be here and take credit risk. 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 4: I don't know. 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 3: I don't some people may want to take a little 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,319 Speaker 3: bit more risk. Kathy Jones maybe one of them. She's 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 3: chief fixed income strategist for Charles Swabs. She jointsu here 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: on our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 4: So Kathy and we sit back here. 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 3: Fixed gum actually has some green on the screen and 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: total return in twenty twenty four. You guys actually made 18 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: some money this year. And fixed income I mean twenty 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 3: twenty two brutal. I mean, let's be honest, what do 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 3: we do in twenty twenty five, because there's a lot 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: of unknowns out there? 22 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 4: Kathy, Yeah, I. 23 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 5: Would say when we were putting together our outlook this 24 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 5: time around, you know, we try to model out various factors, 25 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 5: and this is probably one of the hardest years of 26 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 5: my career to model out because there's so many policies 27 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 5: that are up in the air that is really hard 28 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 5: to predict how it's going to come out. But our 29 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 5: status is really that the rates have very little room 30 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 5: to go much lower at this stage of the game. 31 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 5: We should get a couple of more fed rate cuts, 32 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 5: but not nearly as much as we were expecting before. 33 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 5: And long rates are kind of well priced right here. 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 5: If you look at the ten year yield, it's probably 35 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 5: pretty close to fair value. And then you have all 36 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 5: these uncertainties, which is the word of the year, I 37 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 5: think around trade, tariffs, immigration, taxes, all these policies. It 38 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 5: could affect the growth and inflation outlook. That keeps us 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 5: kind of cautious. 40 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 6: Shawn don And and Nana Wong here at Bloomberg have a 41 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 6: great piece how kind of tapping into that uncertainty and 42 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 6: looking at sort of how this might play out when 43 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 6: it comes to tariffs. When it comes to trade policy, 44 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 6: they write that the drama has started immediately, tariffs may 45 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 6: build more gradually. What is your sense of how this 46 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 6: rolls out? And I know, there's a lot of speculation 47 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 6: about how inherently inflationary. A lot of this might be, 48 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 6: how are you thinking through a again, how the policies 49 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 6: are rolled out, if in fact they are and be 50 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 6: what that might mean for inflation in this country. 51 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's the one basic question is is 52 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 5: this a negotiating strategy or is this for real? So 53 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 5: far it sounds like it's for real. It sounds like 54 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 5: something the president believes in, and so some sort of 55 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 5: tariff is likely to be imposed on somebody early on. 56 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 5: We're assuming China will be first up. We may get 57 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 5: some negotiations on Mexico, Canada, et cetera. But some level 58 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 5: of tariff seems likely to us. So we're looking at 59 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 5: that as a one time shot on inflation. So it 60 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 5: doesn't necessarily build inflation over time, but it definitely we 61 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 5: will raise the price of those imported goods. At the 62 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 5: same time, it tends to slow economic growth, so you 63 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 5: have this kind of dueling force that comes from tariffs. 64 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 5: But we are assuming some inflation impact at least in 65 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 5: the early part of the year, middle part of the year. 66 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: I mean, to me, it seems like from an inflation 67 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: risk situation, the actual immigration policy might be the most impactful, 68 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: it seems, because I just know a couple of restaurant 69 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: owners that I know in town. They're saying, for the 70 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: first time in several years, they're fully employed. Their kitchen, 71 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 3: they got everybody they need in their kitchen, their dishwashers, 72 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: the bus boys and. 73 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 4: All that kind of thing. 74 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: And I don't know, you take that away, and that 75 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: could be problematic because I would think that's a relatively 76 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: big part of the nation's labor force at this point. 77 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 4: How does that work? 78 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, if the proposals that have been put on the 79 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 5: table were implemented, we'd probably lose about eight percent, up 80 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: to eight percent. 81 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: Of the workforce. 82 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 5: A lot in an aging workforce, with people my age 83 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 5: and older retiring out. And that's not an announcement, but 84 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 5: that's going to happen. It is happening of the baby boomers, 85 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 5: and you need workers to replace them. So far in 86 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 5: recent years it's been immigrants who have replaced them. So 87 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 5: you end up with this hole in the labor force 88 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 5: and you can't grow as quickly. So on the one hand, 89 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 5: wages would probably have to rise to attract people who 90 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 5: aren't in the labor force. On the other hand, you 91 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 5: can't grow as fast because you don't have the workforce 92 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 5: to produce goods and services to grow faster. So it is, 93 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 5: I would agree. Longer term, it is a bigger issue, 94 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 5: probably than tariffs. 95 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 6: We're all dealing with this uncertainty. You're doing it in 96 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 6: your outlook, and certainly Fed church Rown Powell is doing 97 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 6: it too, even if he's so studiously shied away from 98 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 6: talking about it at the last FED meeting. He's got 99 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 6: another event this week, moderated sit down on Wednesday, and 100 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 6: then we're looking ahead to the next FED meeting after that. 101 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 6: Does he have to address this more? The way that 102 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 6: he and his colleagues are thinking through all of the uncertainty. 103 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 6: We're going to get that summary of economic projections at 104 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 6: the next meeting, how do they factor in all that 105 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 6: we don't know of what might happen here in the 106 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 6: months ahead. 107 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 5: Well, I do think the dot plot and the rest 108 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 5: of the Summary of Economic protection is going to be 109 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 5: really interesting this time around, and certainly will change because 110 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 5: if you think back to September, it was an entirely 111 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 5: different kind of economic outlook and political outlook, policy outlook. 112 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 5: So I think it will change I think they're probably 113 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 5: busily trying to model out some of these things themselves 114 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 5: and figure out what that means. But I doubt that 115 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 5: he will talk about that at this stage of the game. 116 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 5: We'll find out about that later. But my assumption is 117 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 5: they're going to be much more cautious about rate cuts 118 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 5: than they had been before because A the economy has 119 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 5: been more resilient than we thought in September, and B 120 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 5: we have all these uncertainties on the horizon. 121 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: You're to date twenty twenty four the best performance in 122 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 3: your world fixed income, US corporate high yield, and US 123 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 3: leverage loan index. That surprises me a little bit because 124 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: I know there's concerns throughout the year of maybe recession, 125 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: yet the risk your parts of the market were just 126 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: really performing. 127 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, so well, we did have a more resilient economy, 128 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 5: so that helped. And it's the power of the coupon. 129 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 5: So if you have a coupon of six seven eight percent, 130 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 5: and even if things sort of hold steady, you're going 131 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 5: to perform pretty well. And I think this year, when 132 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 5: you look at the total return of various asset classes, 133 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 5: a lot of them are in line with the coupon 134 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 5: the average coupon of the year, and that's kind of 135 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 5: what we're looking at. 136 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 6: Can I ask you lastly just about the strength of 137 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 6: the dollar going forward and what you're thinking about when 138 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 6: it comes to four x and currency. And we had 139 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 6: this kind of another announcement over the weekend from the 140 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 6: President elect about bricks countries trying to rival a dollar. 141 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 6: Kind of wonder where that came from. I'm sure we'll 142 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 6: talk about that more when Davian Sasa was here in 143 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 6: a bit. But what's your sense of sort of what 144 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 6: dollar strength looks like if these policies, if immigration and tariffs, 145 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 6: if those policies are put in to effect, what does 146 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 6: that mean for the US dollar. 147 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 5: It means it stays strong and goes higher. It'd be 148 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 5: very difficult for the dollar to push the dollar down 149 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 5: at this stage of the game. If you have those 150 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 5: sorts of policies in place and you know the dollar 151 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 5: is near if you look, I would use the Bloomberg 152 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 5: Dollar Index. I prefer to the DXY myself because it's 153 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 5: more broad based. It's nearly out of fifteen year high. 154 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 5: We're almost back to those spike highs in twenty twenty two, 155 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 5: and that's driven largely by the outperformance of the economy 156 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 5: and the wide interest rate differentials. 157 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 4: I doubt those. 158 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 5: Things will change in twenty twenty five, and actually tariffs 159 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 5: will only give it another boost to the upside. 160 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: Kathy, thank you so much for joining us, as always 161 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: appreciated Kathy Jones. She's chief fixed income strategist for Charles Schwab. 162 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: The fixed income folks actually making some money at this year. 163 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 4: Love that. 164 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,119 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Catch us Live 165 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: weekday afternoons from seven to ten am. Easter Listen on 166 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: Apple car Play and androyd Otto with a Bloomberg Business 167 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: app or wants Us Live on YouTube. 168 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 3: The appointments from President Electrump continue to come fast and furious. 169 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: Cash Bettel FBI director appoint e is probably one of 170 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: the latest show of the weekend. Henrietta Tres joined to 171 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: She's a manager partner of Vada Partners. Henriette again kind 172 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: of putting some of these appointments selections in context. What 173 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: is President Electrump trying to do here with his cabinet? 174 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 3: What is his strategy do you think at this point? 175 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 7: I think it's definitely signaling that he wants to hit 176 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 7: the ground running as soon as he gets sworn. 177 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 8: Into office January twentieth. 178 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 7: The most important things to me are the nomination of 179 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 7: Kevin Hassett and Jameson Greer. Those are the names that 180 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 7: were floaded last week for USTR, which is going to 181 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 7: be most critical for putting the tarifs into place. We 182 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 7: know we have the Treasury Secretary into play. Some of 183 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 7: these other names, whether it's Rka Junior or Matt Gates, 184 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 7: and those guys are sort of fallen by the wayside, 185 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 7: will be contentious as they go through, as I imagine 186 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 7: Cash Battel will be as well. But I would say 187 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 7: keep our eyes on the prize, focus on USTR, and 188 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 7: see also that they're potentially telegraphing to businesses to prepare 189 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 7: for these tariffs in advance as opposed to waiting for 190 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 7: January twentieth and an implementation date of additional tariffs. That's 191 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 7: maybe the biggest thing for me right now, with the 192 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 7: early naming of these nominees. 193 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 6: Let's take each of those in kind. Let's start with 194 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 6: Kevin Hassett. He was in the first Trump administration. He 195 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 6: came up with this thing called the Hassett principle. When 196 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 6: it came to tariffs, sort of focusing on where those 197 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 6: tariffs might be applied, who might be exempt from them. 198 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 6: How does his work change if he's now a part 199 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 6: of this next administration. I mean, I look at just 200 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 6: through the panoply of people that the President elect has 201 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 6: picked to be on his economic team, and we've seen 202 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 6: kind of the fighting or early on before they were 203 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 6: even named, and one wonders if that's going to move 204 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 6: over into the cabinet room as well. But sticking with 205 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 6: Kevin Hassett, what role does he play in shaping the 206 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 6: direction of Donald Trump's economic policy in this next term. 207 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 7: Important thing to me right now is that he has 208 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 7: a relationship with lawmakers on Capitol Hill that exceeds that 209 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 7: of Scott Bessont or Howard Lutnick. And I think when 210 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 7: I am worried about next year is obviously the tax 211 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 7: bill and then the tariffs that are part of that. 212 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 7: In that Donald Trump has said the tires will pay 213 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 7: for the four point six trillion dollar extension of the 214 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 7: existing tax rates. 215 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 8: So when Bessett, excuse me, when. 216 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 7: Hassett is up on the hill trying to talk with 217 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 7: staff and get this tax bill written, one of the 218 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 7: key components that he's going to be involved in is 219 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 7: getting them to agree to include tariffs in the tax bill. 220 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 7: That's a very big deal. That's the only way to 221 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 7: score it, so that tax legislation can be physically offset 222 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 7: in the same piece of legislation by the tariffs. 223 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 8: So I think Hassett will pay. 224 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 7: Play a really important role there as well as USTR Henrietta. 225 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 3: What's the role of the United States Senate here in 226 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: confirming some of these nominations, look at some of the 227 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 3: more contentious ones that may become down. 228 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 7: You know, they're pretty much already trying to compel the 229 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 7: Trump administration to give them names that can get through 230 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 7: and get through quickly. We know that historically you get 231 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 7: through you know, the Secretary of State, Defense and Treasury 232 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 7: pretty quickly, you know, just days after the president is 233 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 7: sworn in. So they're trying to, you know, sort out 234 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 7: the week from the chaff as early as possible so 235 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 7: they can keep their eyes on the prize, get started 236 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 7: on the president's agenda as soon as he gets sworn 237 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 7: into office. So I think a lot of their back 238 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 7: room discussion is trying to say, look, thank you for 239 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 7: giving us these names. Some of these guys cannot get through. 240 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 7: I think it's underappreciated how slim the Republican margin is 241 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 7: going into next year. We have a number of Senators 242 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,119 Speaker 7: who are going to be up for reelection or potentially retiring, 243 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 7: or have come in as freshmen who will be willing 244 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 7: to challenge the president on these nominations. 245 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,239 Speaker 8: As we've already. 246 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 6: Seen, we're back playing this game of trying to keep 247 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 6: track of all of the social media posts from the 248 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 6: President elect, and one of them from a few weeks 249 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 6: back had to do with recess appointments and him urging 250 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 6: senators to allow for them to happen, presumably because that 251 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 6: would forestall have to go through a lot of the 252 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 6: confirmation process where perhaps some controversial material might come out 253 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 6: and things could get gummed up. Where does that stand? 254 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 6: How resonant was that message from the President elect with 255 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 6: Republican members of the US Senate. 256 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 7: The United States senators do not like to be told 257 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 7: what to do. I can tell you that firsthand, have 258 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 7: you work there. I think a lot of the enthusiasm 259 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 7: for the recess appointment idea came from House members who 260 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 7: are much closely tethered to President Electrump. So you saw 261 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 7: a lot of support for the idea from House Republicans 262 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 7: in Trump's orbit, but major pushback from the Senate. They 263 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 7: don't go on recess specifically for this reason, that and 264 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 7: the Pocket veto. So I do not expect the Senate 265 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 7: to voluntarily step aside. And I think even if the 266 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 7: President tried to force the issue, which is allowable under 267 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 7: obscure clauses of the Constitution, the House and Senate would 268 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 7: collaborate to make sure that didn't occur. 269 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: Henrietta, what's the concern, if any, in Washington about some. 270 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: Of the the experience levels for some of these appointments. 271 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: Some people are questioning whether they are appropriately experienced to 272 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: run some of these larger institutions in Washington? 273 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 4: What's that? Is there a feeling of developing in DC? 274 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 7: You know, what I hear is a lot of adjucta 275 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 7: from you know, the Defense departments for example, about some 276 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 7: of these incoming appointees who have real access to GRIND 277 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 7: and want to get rid of Navy admirals for example, 278 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 7: or you know, get rid of major prosecutors at the FBI. 279 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 7: That conversation, that narrative is obviously very real. I think 280 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 7: you saw it with the President Biden's decision to pardon 281 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 7: Hunter Biden. 282 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 8: You know they're taking this very very seriously. 283 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 7: The names that Trump is putting out there are the 284 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 7: names of folks who have advocated mostly on Fox News 285 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 7: for years now for really aggressive change at the admiral 286 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 7: level in military ranks, you know, getting rid of any 287 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 7: of these seasoned army generals who maybe we're too quote 288 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 7: unquote woke for. 289 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 8: The Trump administration and the people that they're about to announce. 290 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 7: So there's a lot of consternation within those specific military groups. 291 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 7: And I think that's probably the most noticeable thing I've 292 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 7: picked up in the last couple of weeks. 293 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 6: You mentioned a few minutes ago Jamison Greer, who was 294 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 6: a Bob Litthheiser acolyte. He was the chief of staff 295 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 6: to the US Trade Representative during the first Trump term. 296 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 6: He's now being appointed or nominated to be the next 297 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 6: US trade representative. It makes me want to ask you 298 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 6: about Bob Leittheiser, somebody whose name has been bandied about 299 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 6: a lot but does not yet have an appointment or 300 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 6: a nomination in this administration. What do you make of that? 301 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 6: And I know he was sort of seen as somebody 302 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 6: who might be a Commerce secretary. Obviously, Howard Lutnik is 303 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 6: the person who got the nod for that job. In 304 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 6: this next term, where does he land and what does 305 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 6: it say to you that he hasn't gotten the spot yet. 306 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 7: Well, I think there's a lot of conflicting factors here 307 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 7: and a lot of this is sort of palace injury. 308 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 7: But Bob Liteheiser was the architect of the Section three 309 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 7: oh one tariffs against China. He is the one who 310 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 7: delivered the Phase one trade agreement in February of twenty 311 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 7: twenty that got the US and China to sort of 312 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 7: temporarily pause the escalation of the trade war, have China 313 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 7: commit to buying eighty billion dollars a year over the 314 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 7: next two years of additional agriculture purchases. And ultimately China 315 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 7: did not deliver on that. And so one of the 316 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 7: big differences, and we're seeing it picked up in reporting 317 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 7: right now, is that Lightheiser was going to go buy 318 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 7: the book and use the enforcement mechanism in the Phase 319 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 7: one trade agreement, which would have put tarriffs on in 320 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 7: the late April May June time horizon, giving businesses a 321 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 7: period of time to pull forward their purchases, get products 322 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 7: over from China and get them into the US system, 323 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 7: and advance of these tariffs going into effect. The fact 324 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 7: that Bob Lightheiser is not going to be there, in 325 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 7: which I guess, is where we are right now. I'm 326 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 7: still sort of quasi optimistic that there might be a 327 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 7: trades our role, but the fact that he's not there 328 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 7: suggests to me that maybe Trump thinks that between Lutnik 329 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 7: and in Jameson Greer and Kevin Hassett, they can sort 330 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 7: of disregard that Phase one trade agreement imporcement mechanism and 331 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 7: go right into tariff's. I think that's probably our main 332 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 7: takeaway this morning that I'll be talking about with clients. 333 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 8: I don't know why there's. 334 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 7: An expectation that these tariffs aren't serious, or to the 335 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 7: alternative narrative that the market's responding to other factors right now, 336 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 7: but in general, I'm concerned and growing increasingly concerned that 337 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 7: we won't have somebody who's buy the books like Leithheiser. 338 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 7: Next year. We'll have folks who are much more eager 339 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 7: to even get more aggressive than he was in his 340 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 7: first term, which will put tariffs on earlier. 341 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 3: Henrietta, just briefly here, what's between now and inauguration day? 342 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 3: What do we have to look forward to again coming 343 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,479 Speaker 3: out of this Trump administration and waiting The most. 344 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 7: Important thing is what's happening in the Senate and House 345 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 7: budget committees. We're going to get a big deficit number 346 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 7: for their authorization and the reconciliation bill that will tell 347 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 7: us how big the tax bill is going to be 348 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 7: next year. That number could come out as early as 349 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 7: the next couple weeks. The Trump administration is going to 350 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 7: do its own thing on executive orders and immigration and 351 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 7: tariffs and all that, But the real meat for the 352 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 7: investment community is going to come out of the budget committees, 353 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 7: which is lucky but true, and we should know that 354 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 7: in the next couple weeks. 355 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 8: That deficit number is really all I'm waiting for. 356 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 4: Henrietta, Thank you so much for joining us. Always get 357 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 4: a little bit smarter when chatting with you. 358 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 3: Henrietta Triz, Managing partner at Veda Partners, Getting the latest 359 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 3: coming out of Washington, DC room. 360 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday 361 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 362 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 363 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 364 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 365 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 3: Apparently influencers on the Internet have important impacts on what 366 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 3: people bought. I didn't really know that it recent, Lisa. 367 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: That's the thing out there, as opposed to a thirty 368 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: second in on television or a billboard by the side 369 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: of the road or add in your magazine. 370 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 4: That's not how it's done. 371 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 6: The future is here. 372 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 4: The future is here. 373 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 3: So that goes to the issue of what's quality information 374 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 3: out there in the world on the web and what 375 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: is disinformation. Our next guest thinks about this stuff. Lisa Kaplan, 376 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: CEO of a Lithium, and she joins us here in 377 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 3: a Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. Talk to us about Alithia. 378 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: What do you guys do, who are your clients? 379 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 4: What's the work that you guys do. 380 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 9: Thanks so much for having me, Lisa Caplan, Founder and 381 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 9: CEO of Alethia. We are a technology company that detects 382 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 9: and mitigates instances of online risk stemming from everything from 383 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 9: misinformation and disinformation. So thank foreign state adversaries to also 384 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 9: looking at where are there risks of things like boycott, 385 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 9: short seller attacks, other risks that can be developed online 386 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 9: that pose serious business continuity challenges. We predominantly work with 387 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 9: the Fortune one thousand to be able to help them 388 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 9: understand how is it that they are being talked about, 389 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 9: where are these risks emerging, and what is it they 390 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 9: can actually do to get out in front of these 391 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 9: different types of challenges. 392 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 6: Talk a bit more about the kind of disinformation that 393 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 6: we're seeing. We talk about it a lot in the 394 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 6: context of the news and journalisms of what people are 395 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 6: exposed to when it comes to current events. So here 396 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 6: in this kind of corporate setting or with retail, who's 397 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 6: perpetrating it, What does it look like? How widespread an 398 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 6: issue is this for some of the companies with whom 399 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 6: you work. 400 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 9: When we talk about miss and disinformation, what we're really 401 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 9: talking about is the ability to weaponize information online, and 402 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 9: that's always something that's conducted by an individual or a 403 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 9: group of individuals in order to achieve their goal. Oftentimes 404 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 9: we'll see things, especially in the retail sector, things like 405 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 9: calls for boycotts. Obviously, December is a big month for retail. 406 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 9: People need to do well ahead of the holidays. And 407 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 9: one of the things that we're seeing that's actually an 408 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 9: interesting development, and it actually i would say started really 409 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 9: in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, but it's changed how it forms. 410 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 9: Is the idea of boycotting certain companies because of perceived 411 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 9: political donations. We are starting to observe, and this again 412 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 9: in twenty sixteen after President Trump was elected, individuals and 413 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 9: activists calling to boycott or divest certain companies based on 414 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 9: whether or not they made donations in support of one 415 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 9: political candidate or another. We're seeing that again today, and 416 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 9: we're seeing both influencers on the left and the right 417 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 9: call for boycott's based on political donations. We are seeing 418 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 9: what I would call manipulative attacks as well, which are 419 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 9: when different accounts or different actors are seeking to essentially 420 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 9: gain curation algorithms trying to make it seem as though 421 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 9: their perspective is quote unquote newsier because it looks like 422 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 9: more people are talking about these different trends or these 423 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 9: different companies are calling for boycott, when in reality it 424 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 9: may just be a very small group of very vocal 425 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 9: individuals versus actual customers of these companies. 426 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: We've seen some pretty significant. Companies kind of walk away 427 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: just in the last several months of their DEI diversity, 428 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 3: equity and inclusion initiatives that maybe they just started, even 429 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 3: in the last two or three years. I'm surprised that 430 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: companies take political stands one way or the others. Michael 431 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 3: Jordan famously said back in the day, Republicans buy sneakers too, 432 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 3: Why do companies even bother doing that stuff in the 433 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 3: first place. 434 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 9: So, a lot of DEI programs really started in earnest 435 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 9: as a recruiting and a retention tool, the ability to 436 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 9: be able to make sure that you're getting the best 437 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 9: possible talent you have a diverse customer base you want 438 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 9: to have, or an employee and a team that actually 439 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 9: reflects that diversity. What we're seeing now is certain activists 440 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 9: calling into question whether or not that actually benefits the shareholder. 441 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 9: And so what we've observed is that there's a small 442 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 9: group of activists who are creating a lot of content 443 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 9: and a lot of pressure on companies to essentially get 444 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 9: rid of their DEI programs. What we've observed is oftentimes 445 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 9: these attacks, while they start online, what will end up 446 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 9: happening is your executive will actually get outreach from these 447 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 9: individuals before they publicly go after you. We always recommend 448 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 9: that organizations seek to understand first where are your customers, 449 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 9: your employees, and your shareholders add on this issue, it 450 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 9: can feel really overwhelming and really alarming when you get 451 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 9: this type of outreach, but having that data to understand 452 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 9: what are the equities that you're trying to preserve as 453 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 9: a private company, both in terms of making sure that 454 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 9: your team wants to continue to work at your organization. 455 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 9: If this is something that they care about, you should 456 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 9: have that in mind and be prepared from an internal 457 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 9: communications perspective. Second, where are your customers? On this issue, 458 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 9: we have seen DEIBUS to target companies on everything ranging 459 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 9: from Pride back in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty to today, 460 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 9: and we also are seeing, for example, shareholders call into 461 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 9: question whether or not DEI programs are effective. Companies that 462 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 9: have data and data ready to share are often the 463 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 9: best position to deal with these types of risks and 464 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 9: navigate through the new media ecosystem. 465 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 6: I would like to ask you just about whose job 466 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 6: it is to police disinformation in the corporate side of things. 467 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 6: And I've been reading this book about Twitter's recent history 468 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 6: by Ryan mc Andckay Conger, and something they resurfaced was 469 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 6: that moment back in twenty twenty two, I think when 470 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 6: somebody created a fake Eli Lilly account on Twitter now 471 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 6: x and said insulin was going to be free, and 472 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 6: we saw all of that, all the insanity that follow 473 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 6: that bad day for the same bad day if you're right, yeah, 474 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 6: but you had Twitter like really doing very little to 475 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 6: stop that from happening. And so I guess what I'm 476 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 6: curious about is you're like, how this is policed, and 477 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 6: how it's policed in a world where there aren't really 478 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 6: on a lot of these sites the mechanisms in place 479 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 6: to kind of sort through what's legitimate and what's not. 480 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 9: So our philosophy and why we exist as a company 481 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 9: is because as a democracy, we're not comfortable with the 482 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 9: idea that governments would police social media data. What people 483 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 9: are saying online that's protected speech. We also understand that 484 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 9: for social media platforms, to your point, this is a 485 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 9: cost center, and so the necessary resource investment to protect 486 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 9: the fortune one thousand isn't going to be happening from 487 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 9: internal cost centers at these platforms. That's just not their model. 488 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 9: That means that the cost is actually on these private 489 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 9: companies to be able to identify these risks and get 490 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 9: out in front of them prior to them becoming a 491 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 9: Level ten crisis. A couple examples of this is when 492 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 9: we see not just that Eli Lelly example, which I 493 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 9: think is a great example of what can happen when 494 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 9: an individual pulls a stunt off. Basically it comes and 495 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 9: goes in about twenty four hours, and the biggest driver 496 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 9: is actually the news cycle talking about it. What we 497 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 9: look for is more, where is that slow drip narrative 498 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 9: that comes data point by data point that causes people 499 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 9: to believe something or maybe take an action or have 500 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 9: a perception that may not be true. It's a lot 501 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,239 Speaker 9: easier for companies to get out in front of that 502 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 9: if they can catch the narrative when it first starts 503 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 9: versus wait for it to be trending on one of 504 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 9: these mainstream platforms. 505 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I can't imagine. 506 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: It's just with the speed of social media and the 507 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: velocity that these things take off, I don't know. I mean, 508 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 3: if you're a board memory, I don't know how you 509 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 3: sleep and they think about some of these risks there, Lisa. 510 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 4: Kaplin, thank you so much for joining us. 511 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 3: Lisa Kaplin, she's the see of a Lithia, talking about 512 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: disinformation and how it impacts many parts of our lives 513 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 3: and including the economics of a lot of companies out 514 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: there as well. 515 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday 516 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 517 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch 518 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the 519 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: Bloomberg terminal. 520 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: All right, folks, your deadly look at the front pages 521 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: around the world. Police mateo newspapers. 522 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 4: What do you got for us? 523 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: All right, so did either of you indulge in the 524 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: Black Friday shopping? 525 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 10: Did you go in store? Online? 526 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 6: Nothing like those stores? Nothing, nothing, absolutely clear. 527 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 10: Okay, See I'm the loser. I woke up at. 528 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 4: The tradition in the morning. You know you did not, 529 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 4: And I went. 530 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: To the Jersey Shore Outlets, Yes you did, which opened 531 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: at six and I got there like six forty five 532 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: parking lot was. 533 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 4: Almost already no kidding. 534 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 10: Okay, wow, But here's the thing. 535 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: This new data that's out It shows that a lot 536 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: of those bargain hungry, you know, American shoppers they didn't 537 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: do that. They skipped out of the instore shopping. They 538 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: went online on Black Friday. This is from mash of cards. 539 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: Sales brick and mortar stores grew just seven ten percent 540 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,239 Speaker 1: year over year, that's according to those preliminary estimates, but 541 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: e commerce sales increased by fourteen. 542 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 10: Point six percent online. So you see the difference there. 543 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: I mean this Adobe tally also would showed that Americans 544 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: spent about ten point eight billion online on Friday. That's 545 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: ten percent more than a year earlier. And then today's 546 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: Cyber Monday. 547 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 6: So see this is I have a problem with this 548 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 6: because you're right, like Friday has now become Black Friday's 549 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 6: become an online thing, and then we have Cyber Monday 550 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 6: as well. I don't understand the utility of the Cyber 551 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 6: Monday on. 552 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 3: The head, but there are still people like likek Smith 553 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: Tato that get up and go to the stores. Now 554 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: I have to ask, did you go by yourself or 555 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 3: did anybody company? 556 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 10: You know, the whole family came. 557 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 4: No way. 558 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 10: And here's the thing. 559 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 4: Not the soldiers. He did not get out, No he 560 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 4: did not. 561 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 10: Yes, my son was sleeping. But here's the thing. You 562 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 10: go and it's like you look online and it's. 563 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: The same exact deal, like the forty percent off you 564 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: go in the store, you get the forty percent online 565 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: the same exact time, but you do save on the 566 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: shipping if you go in stories just want one thing, 567 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, So if you get. 568 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 4: A couple, So did you get stuff? 569 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: We did, Yeah, we and they bonded up and oh 570 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: my gosh, we're delirious and the rest of the day 571 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: was shot. But it's exactly okay, but more people actually 572 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: are doing it. But you're right, you're seeing this like 573 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: blending from like Black Friday, which started like a week before, 574 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: you know, because people started putting out their sales. So anyway, 575 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: which brings me to my next story is about the return. Okay, 576 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: so when people start returning, if you notice there's a 577 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: lot of fine print now, like a lot of the 578 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: retailers are cracking down on how consumers send their items back, 579 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of shoppers are saying, you know what, 580 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: we're not going to deal with it. Wall Street Journal, 581 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: they say shoppers are pushing back. Some have stopped buying 582 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: from retailers that charge for those returns. It doesn't seem 583 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: to be affecting months because we just heard those master 584 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: card figures. 585 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 5: Right. 586 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 10: But the debate is, here's the reason. 587 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: Retailers saying they need stricter policies because returns and return 588 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: fraud is starting to eat into their profit interest. So 589 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: that's why they need to do that. But the shoppers 590 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: are saying, you know what, the sizing is inconsistent, so 591 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: I have to order three sizes to try them on 592 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: and then return the other two you know afterwards. 593 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 4: It the return stuff though. 594 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 10: I mean with Amazon, it's easy. 595 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: You just kind of do it and you print out 596 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: the receipt, you take it to the UPS store. You 597 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: don't even have to package it, and they just send. 598 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 10: It off for you. 599 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 4: Right, that's Amazon deal. 600 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 10: But that's an Amazon. 601 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: But a lot of the store, let's say, like a 602 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: Sex withth Avenue or like a North Sum or a Macy's, 603 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: they're starting to change the way they do it. 604 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 10: Yeah, it's costing them money. And with the fraud. 605 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that the frauds in returns. 606 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 3: If you're buying all line you're particularly clothes, yeah, you're 607 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 3: taking a risk there. 608 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 4: But people do it, right, People do it. 609 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: People do it, especially if you like they said the sizing. 610 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: You don't know what size, so you're like, well, I'll 611 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: just order a small ani medium and then I'll return whatever, 612 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:13,719 Speaker 1: just to it. 613 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 4: Okay, Good to know, Good to know. 614 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 10: Okay. 615 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: This next one is an Indian steelmaker planning to launch 616 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: its own EV brand, So it's JSW. They're telling the 617 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: Financial Times that they want to manufacture the EV's in India, 618 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: sell them in India. But it's it's a growing market. 619 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: You have EV makers in India like Tata Motors, Mahindra, 620 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: Ola Electric, so there's a growing market for it. Apparently 621 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: this is according to SMP Global Mobility. Electric car sales 622 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: in India total only about one hundred thousand years per year. 623 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: That's about two percent of the passenger car market. But 624 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: sales they're starting to take off with more affluent Indian customers. 625 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: So that's how that change is starting. So they're saying 626 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: they want to get in on the action. 627 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 10: So that's JSW. They're a steel maker. 628 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 4: Why do you want to get into the auto business? 629 00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 4: I have no idea. 630 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 6: Well, it's a huge market, right, I mean that's ther Felmaker. 631 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, I mean I think I mean, 632 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: you look at all these auto companies. I don't know 633 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 3: how an investors don't know how to evaluate this transition 634 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 3: from you know, internal combustion to EV. And if you're 635 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 3: a General Motors, Ford, Volkswagen and investor, I don't think 636 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: you have a clear view. That's why they're trading where 637 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 3: they're trading, because I think the real question globally is 638 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 3: what's the demand for. 639 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 6: These things and how long is that transition going to take? 640 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 9: Right? 641 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 6: I mean, there's a sense that it's going to happen 642 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 6: really quickly, and we've seen all these European automakers now 643 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 6: saying hold. 644 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 4: Up, we're not going to do it. We're not going 645 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 4: to do it cleanly. 646 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 6: We're going to keep making these internal combustion engines for 647 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 6: a while. 648 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 4: I'm not going to pay a premium for an EV. 649 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 3: So when I was searching for the Beamer, the guys 650 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,239 Speaker 3: that I can put you in a EV, but it's 651 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: a thirty percent premium. 652 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 4: Like Y zero yea. I can care less about that 653 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 4: stuff than you. 654 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 6: Is your Vesper electric? 655 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: No? 656 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 4: No, the Vespa is fifty ccs pure raw in exactly 657 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 4: so anyway, that's it. I was cruising on the best. 658 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 4: I'm sure all right, what else we. 659 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 10: Got last one. 660 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: So Lebron James, you know, famous Basketball Paper, is doing great, 661 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: but his media company actually lost twenty eight million dollars 662 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. 663 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 10: This was in Bloomberg's screen Time newsletter. Check it out. 664 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: This is according to Yeah, so Lucashaw. They got their 665 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: hands on some documents that showed that. But it shows 666 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: Hollywood production companies they've grown over the past decade to 667 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: serve the growing demands of streaming services. 668 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 10: But now you see as Paul always. 669 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: Talks about streaming services cutting back in production, looking closely 670 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: at their budgets. So that's why you're starting to see 671 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: this change. But apparently he lost out pretty big in 672 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. I mean, he's doing quite well for himself. 673 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to put that out there too, but 674 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: you see film TV businesses started by celebrities, they're struggling 675 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: to start to make a profit right now because I. 676 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 4: Don't know why, they just don't do what they used 677 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 4: to do. 678 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: Just go buy a restaurant if you want to throw 679 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 3: your money away, or dealers, car dealership, card dealership. I mean, 680 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 3: any manager that allows these athletes or film sticks to 681 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: do anything but stocks and bonds, and maybe I'll give 682 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 3: you five percent of your money to be stupid with 683 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 3: and go buy a restaurant or go, you know, start 684 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 3: a media company where Disney and Warner Brothers Discovery struggle 685 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 3: to make money. 686 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 4: I just don't get it. 687 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 6: I love this line from Lucas. Producing good movies and 688 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 6: TV shows is hard, and having a celebrity producer does 689 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 6: not guarantee success. 690 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 3: Good cave exactly well, I mean here, I mean, I 691 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 3: don't know if how much you guys pay attention to 692 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 3: has been the credits, look at the producers and executive 693 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 3: prowser executive producer is I'm going to give you this 694 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 3: executive producer title. Yeah, no economics, but you can then 695 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: say you're a producer, all right. That is newspapers from 696 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 3: Lisa Matteo, always a coveted spot in the lineup here. 697 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 698 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, 699 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 700 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You 701 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and 702 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: always on the Bloomberg terminal