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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 3: today on Weird House Cinema, we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about the nineteen ninety four supernatural horror film In the

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Speaker 3: Mouth of Madness, directed by John Carpenter, starring Sam Neil,

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Speaker 3: Julie Carmen, and Jurgen proc. Now this came about because

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Speaker 3: the actor Sam Neil passed away recently and Rob you

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Speaker 3: wanted to do one of his movies on the show.

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Speaker 3: We talked about a couple of options, but I was

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Speaker 3: really gravitating toward In the Mouth of Madness because I

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Speaker 3: remembered liking it when I first saw it a few

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Speaker 3: years ago. Wanted to watch it again and wow, it

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Speaker 3: was actually even better than I remembered. I think, because

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Speaker 3: it comes so late in John Carpenter's filmography, is in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four, I mentally group it with later Carpenter

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Speaker 3: movies from the nineties that I'm personally not incredibly fond of,

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Speaker 3: like Escape from la and Vampires, Ghosts to Mars, that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. But on revisit Mouth of Madness really

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Speaker 3: punches hard. I don't know if i'd say it's like

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Speaker 3: top three Carpenter for me, but it is awesome and

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Speaker 3: I would definitely put it on the shell on the

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Speaker 3: same shelf, if that makes sense as my favorites like

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Speaker 3: the Thing in Prince of Darkness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, as we'll discuss, it very much belongs on

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Speaker 2: that shelf with those two films. Yeah, in the Mouth

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Speaker 2: of Madness has been one of my favorites since it

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Speaker 2: came out. It's generally listed as a ninety four film

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Speaker 2: because I believe it debuted a German film festival in

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Speaker 2: August of that year, but it was actually released to

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Speaker 2: US theaters in the dismal February dump month of nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety five, so you know, not as many people saw it,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't see it until it came out on

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Speaker 2: home video for rental in July or maybe a little

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Speaker 2: after July. But I bet I was probably on top

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Speaker 2: of it, and that's because at this point in my

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Speaker 2: life I was already in love with John Carpenter films,

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Speaker 2: at least the ones that i'd seen. I had been

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Speaker 2: reading Stephen King books for years and I had fairly

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Speaker 2: recently discovered for myself the writings of HP Lovecraft. So

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Speaker 2: you know, a number of the key elements for just

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Speaker 2: really digging this film were already in place, and it

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Speaker 2: did absolutely blow me away, and I've I've kept coming

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Speaker 2: back to it over the years. I can easily say

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Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite films. I did a Halloween

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Speaker 2: costume one year or pictures of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, if you go to the Instagram for

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Speaker 2: our show STBYM podcast, I'll make sure I put a

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Speaker 2: picture up of it is so you can see what

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Speaker 2: in the Mouth of Madness costume was from something like

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Speaker 2: nine years ago. Not many people got it, but the

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Speaker 2: people who got it really appreciated it.

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Speaker 3: I think I got it. I saw you at the

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Speaker 3: Little Five Points Halloween Parade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the ones who got not everyone did.

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Speaker 3: Like the year was that the year I was Jack Torrance.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think you were.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yes, the burgundy jacket and the axe. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, this is This is long been one of

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Speaker 2: my favorites. I've owned it on home media a couple

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Speaker 2: of times over the years, and the film score is

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Speaker 2: one of a handful of CDs of compact discs that

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Speaker 2: I still have and still keep in my car.

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Speaker 3: Oh boy, a nineties car CD. That's so like it's

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Speaker 3: an original one. It survived the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it survived the whole time. It hasn't been purged.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it certainly doesn't still have a case, but

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Speaker 2: it's still there, still playable, you know. I still throw

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Speaker 2: it in from time to time.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, what's on that CD? Is it just

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Speaker 3: like the film score? Does it have like pop music tracks?

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Speaker 2: It's just the score? Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, yeah, which

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Speaker 2: we'll we'll detail here in a bit once we get

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Speaker 2: into the credits.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't really remember any needle drops in the movie,

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Speaker 3: apart from the carpenters.

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Speaker 2: Which yeah, yeah. Aside from the carpenters, I think it's Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just the score, which, in my opinion's pretty terrific.

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Speaker 3: Should we start with a basic plot summary or plot

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Speaker 3: set up? I guess. So. The story starts with the protagonist,

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Speaker 3: John Trent, played by Sam Neil brilliantly. By the way,

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Speaker 3: I think this is maybe my favorite Sam Neil performance

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Speaker 3: that I know of, though I know there are some more,

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Speaker 3: like I don't know, art classified films of his that

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Speaker 3: people really like. But as far as like pop horror

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Speaker 3: media goes, I think this is like my favorite.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 3: John Trent played by Sam Neil is a freelance insurance investigator. Basically,

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Speaker 3: he is a private detective who specializes in sniffing out

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Speaker 3: fraud in insurance claims, and his client comes to him

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Speaker 3: with an interesting case. They have underwritten a publishing house

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Speaker 3: called R. Kane Press, the publisher of in this movie,

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Speaker 3: the most successful author in the world, a horror novelist

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Speaker 3: named sutter Kane, who is positioned in many ways as

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Speaker 3: a fictionalized version of Stephen King, though King is actually

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Speaker 3: name checked in the movie as like some chump that

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Speaker 3: sutter Kane has massively outsold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can forget about Stephen King.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, anticipation of sutter Kane's upcoming novel is off

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Speaker 3: the charts. Fans are ravenous, booksellers cannot keep up with

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Speaker 3: pre order requests. But there is a problem sutter Kane. Secretly,

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Speaker 3: the public I think doesn't know about this, but his

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Speaker 3: publisher knows that sutter Kane has disappeared. They can't find

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Speaker 3: or contact him, and he has stopped sending them updated

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Speaker 3: material for the novel. And like they need it soon.

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Speaker 3: So together John Trent and Kane's editor Linda Stiles take

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Speaker 3: up the case, hoping that they can find the author

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Speaker 3: and solve the mystery. All the while, in the background,

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Speaker 3: the world seems to be gradually going mad. There are

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Speaker 3: riots in bookstores where these crazed Sutter Kane fans like

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Speaker 3: mash windows and tear down the shelves. People seem to

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Speaker 3: be receiving strange, paranoid messages from the books, or even

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Speaker 3: like acting on what they believe to be psychic messages

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Speaker 3: from Kane himself. Sometimes they lose their minds and start

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Speaker 3: carrying axes in the street. Could it all be connected?

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Speaker 3: So you might start to guess from the plot description

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Speaker 3: there that this is one of those reality bending movies

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Speaker 3: where a lot of scenes are built around the question

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Speaker 3: is this really happening? Or am I somehow dreaming or

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Speaker 3: hallucinating this? This has come up on the show before,

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Speaker 3: but it's a type of plot that I can sometimes,

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Speaker 3: maybe even i'd say often find tedious. I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: exactly why that is. I think maybe it's because it

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Speaker 3: can make a movie feel like it's not fully committed

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Speaker 3: to its own premise or Sometimes it can just feel

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Speaker 3: kind of like a cheap, time wasting kind of exercise.

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Speaker 3: But other times it works. And this is a movie

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Speaker 3: where I think it really works. I really like it here,

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Speaker 3: and the movie is absolutely committed to its premise. That's

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Speaker 3: not a problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would, I would agree with all of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this Sometimes with a reality bending film, you know, you

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Speaker 2: can it can feel like, Okay, nothing I watched matter,

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Speaker 2: you know, nothing up to this point mattered. Or it

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Speaker 2: can feel manipulative or just outright gimmicky, where it's just

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Speaker 2: all about the twist and all about yeah, we're actually

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Speaker 2: just mice in the maze or something. But I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that Madness in the Mouth of

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Speaker 2: Madness works so well is that the movie does a

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Speaker 2: great job of just spreading out those breadcrumbs of visually

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Speaker 2: doing it, plot wise, doing it throughout the whole film,

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Speaker 2: so none of it feels like a sudden deviation from

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Speaker 2: the plan. You can feel the dreadful gravity of the

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Speaker 2: conclusion tugging you towards it really from the very beginning,

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Speaker 2: and more to the point, when you watch it again,

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Speaker 2: all of this still feels honest. Whereas I can think

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Speaker 2: of examples that I'm not going to name, where you

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Speaker 2: watch it a second time, you know what the twist

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Speaker 2: is going to be, or you know when reality is

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Speaker 2: going to break, and everything just feels like a setup

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Speaker 2: for a joke, and the jokes on you the viewer.

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Speaker 3: And to be fair, this movie is in a way

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Speaker 3: kind of a joke, but it's like a good joke

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Speaker 3: some reviewers I was reading what critics thought about this.

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Speaker 3: Critical opinion was of course divided, but there were a

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Speaker 3: number of critics at the time that it came out

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Speaker 3: who really liked the first half and did not like

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Speaker 3: the second half very much. And I think I can

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Speaker 3: see why. I think it's because the first half is

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Speaker 3: setting up a very serious, intriguing mystery. But at about

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Speaker 3: the halfway point, I would say there's a tonal switch

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Speaker 3: where this sense of irony and delight takes over and

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Speaker 3: it changes from being a sort of ark, frightening, serious

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Speaker 3: intriguing mystery into something that is just more a celebration

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Speaker 3: of weirdness and excess. And you do kind of know

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Speaker 3: where it's going once you get into that part of

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Speaker 3: the film, but getting there is still like funny and

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Speaker 3: morbid and bizarre and a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it GE's very doomy, but at the same time,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of this comes down to the script,

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Speaker 2: the performances, and just the basic craftsmanship of the whole picture.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like everything's on the rails at that point.

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Speaker 2: It feels like maybe there's a way out, even if

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Speaker 2: there isn't.

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Speaker 3: Man, you were pointing this out before we started recording,

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Speaker 3: but it is quite pression that this really is a

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Speaker 3: movie about an apocalypse, like a doom end of the

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Speaker 3: world scenario brought on by people's reality testing mechanisms failing. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it kind of almost feels like it would not really

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Speaker 3: have been impossible for you know, the people making this

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Speaker 3: movie at the time to imagine the world we live

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Speaker 3: in today. I don't know, maybe they could see pieces

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Speaker 3: of it, but it feels more relevant than ever I'll s.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, almost like some sort of semantic apocalypse in

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Speaker 2: the words of our Scott Baker. But yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about this as I rewatched it, and I hadn't

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Speaker 2: watched it in several years. But yeah, I think it

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Speaker 2: speaks with a lot of clarity today as much as

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Speaker 2: it did back in the nineties, and maybe even more

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Speaker 2: with all of our reality warping technologies and our propensity

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Speaker 2: as a culture to value more and more lies over

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Speaker 2: truth and in the mouth of madness. You know, everything

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Speaker 2: centers on the idea that there is a tipping point,

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Speaker 2: there's a point of no return when it comes to

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Speaker 2: our collective belief, and if enough of us give into it,

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Speaker 2: if enough of us cross some dreadful threshold of belief,

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Speaker 2: then we're done for chaos in the form of the

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Speaker 2: Great Old Ones or something more mundane but equally has

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Speaker 2: a Kluznik floods into our world.

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Speaker 3: It really hit me hard because I just happened to

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Speaker 3: watch an especially mendacious reality disconnected speech by the President

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Speaker 3: of the United States last night. So yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: and so like, this movie's on my mind the whole time.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It felt like a really dreadful kind

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Speaker 3: of synergy of themes there.

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Speaker 2: I was playing dungeons and dragons, so I was just

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Speaker 2: going to full into fantasy instead. Much better use of

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Speaker 2: your time. Yeah, who take my hand that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: Let's see elevator pitch for this movie. I couldn't come

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Speaker 2: up with anything clever because the movie already is pretty clever,

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Speaker 2: and I honestly always liked its legitimate tagline which has

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Speaker 2: lived any good books lately, which is a little cheeky

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Speaker 2: but still solid.

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Speaker 3: I don't know do I like that or not.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say. I know, it's like I kind

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Speaker 2: of don't like it. I kind of hate it, but

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Speaker 2: I also kind of love it. Hard to say.

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Speaker 3: There is actually a tagline I like that. It's too

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Speaker 3: for a movie tagline, but it's the tagline on the

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Speaker 3: cover of the in universe fictional book The hobbs End

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Speaker 3: Horror by sob of Caine. Did you check this?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: The tagline at the bottom of the cover says, if

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Speaker 3: this book doesn't scare you to death, you are already dead.

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Speaker 2: I love that, a thinker. That's some William Castle energy

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Speaker 2: right there. Let's see for where you can find this film. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's widely available in all media formats, as is fitting

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Speaker 2: as we'll discuss when we get into the plot. And

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Speaker 2: there have been multiple special editions over the years. I

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Speaker 2: owned what I believe was the first special edition DVD

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Speaker 2: that came out in two thousand, which featured a commentary

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Speaker 2: track between John Carpenter, the director, and the film cinematographer

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Speaker 2: Gary B. Kibbie, and I believe there's also a track

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Speaker 2: out now that features Carpenter and his wife and also

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Speaker 2: the producer of this film, Sandy King, but that didn't

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Speaker 2: come out till like twenty eighteen. I haven't listened to

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Speaker 2: that one, but I did listen to the Carpenter Kibbi

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Speaker 2: track back in the day, and it's sometimes cited as

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Speaker 2: being more technical and less purely entertaining, because a lot

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Speaker 2: of Carpenter's Carpenter's commentary tracks are in general just really good. Generally,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna have somebody on there that he has a

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Speaker 2: cool vibe with, you know, especially with someone like Kurt Russell.

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Speaker 2: You know it's gonna it's gonna be it's gonna be insightful,

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Speaker 2: but also just kind of a fun hang. You kind

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Speaker 2: of get like a parasocial thing out of it. It's

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Speaker 2: like listening to a podcast, but before we really had podcasts,

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Speaker 2: and so some people were like, well, this one's a

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Speaker 2: little more on the technical side, but I remember enjoying it,

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Speaker 2: and you know, a lot of it is them talking

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Speaker 2: about like Carpenter asking Kidbi like, well, how would you

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Speaker 2: how did you do this? And you know, what were

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Speaker 2: the challenges of this particular seen from a cinematographer's standpoint,

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. All right, let's get into the

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Speaker 2: folks behind this picture, starting with the top. At the top,

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Speaker 2: of course, with John Carpenter, the director born nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 2: This is our second Carpenter directed film here on Weird

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Speaker 2: House Cinema, following our episode on nineteen eighty seven's Prince

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Speaker 2: of Darkness. But of course we also covered nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: two's Halloween three season of The Witch, which he didn't direct,

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Speaker 2: but he was of course highly involved in, you know,

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Speaker 2: producer and also did the music on that one.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard to believe we have only done two

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Speaker 3: John Carpenter movies on Weird House Cinema. I mean, but

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Speaker 3: it feels like he's kind of our patron deity. And yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: done less Carpenter than it seems like we might have.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we've discussed before. It can be a

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Speaker 2: little a little challenging to pick a Carpenter film because

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Speaker 2: I'm one. Hey, We've had people say, oh, you should

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Speaker 2: cover Big Trouble and Little China. I love Big Trouble

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Speaker 2: and Little China, but it's almost like it's too big,

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Speaker 2: it's it's there's some it has such a cult following,

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Speaker 2: like what can we say about it that hasn't been said?

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Speaker 2: Or I don't know, it would still be fun to

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Speaker 2: watch it, but I'd start having these thoughts when I

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Speaker 2: consider picking it.

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Speaker 3: That's actually quite true. Yeah, I think I sometimes feel

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Speaker 3: hesitant at doing movies that are either one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite movies or a movie on which there is already

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Speaker 3: a ton of like interesting scholarship and information out there,

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Speaker 3: and I think, like, oh, do we really have the

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Speaker 3: time to, like, you know, consume all of this and

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Speaker 3: understand it and talk about it in the episode that

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Speaker 3: we got to record this week. I don't know. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it can be a little tough, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: And on another level, it is kind of surprising we've

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Speaker 2: only actually done done too. But yeah, He's absolutely one

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Speaker 2: of our favorites. And this film is often referred to

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Speaker 2: as Part three in his Apocalypse trilogy, which also includes

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two Is the Thing in eighty seven's Prints

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Speaker 2: of Darkness. So Madness was Carpenter's sixteenth directorial feature out

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Speaker 2: of what I think currently stands at twenty one, and

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Speaker 2: some argue that it's It's Carpenter's last truly great film.

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Speaker 2: Can't safely state that for myself, because I have to

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Speaker 2: admit there I think three period three pictures from this

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Speaker 2: period of his filmography that I have not yet seen,

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Speaker 2: so I can't really I would just be jumping on

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Speaker 2: the bandwagon with what other people have said, and I'd

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Speaker 2: prefer not to do that. But I do think that

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Speaker 2: In the Mouth of Madness is in my opinion, it

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Speaker 2: is a career high point for him, and certainly a

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Speaker 2: later career high point of his later films. I would

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Speaker 2: tend to agree this is my favorite now filmography wise,

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Speaker 2: just getting into the like where it fits into his work,

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Speaker 2: This one comes on the heels of A eight's They Live,

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Speaker 2: ninety three's Body Bags, and ninety two's Memoirs of an

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Speaker 2: Invisible Man, which you see interviews where Carpenter has talked

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Speaker 2: about Memoirs of an Invisible Man, and this seems to

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Speaker 2: be pretty much his least favorite of his films due

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Speaker 2: to a couple of its stars being arguably difficult to

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Speaker 2: work with due to studio interference. But apparently one of

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Speaker 2: the high points of Memoirs of Invisible Man is that

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Speaker 2: he got to work with Sam Neil for the first time,

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Speaker 2: who played the villain in that picture.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know he was in it. So I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen Memoirs or Body Bags, but I've never felt

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Speaker 3: greatly motivated to see them. But if Sam Neil's in it,

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Speaker 3: maybe I'll have to check it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I remember liking it okay at the time,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I remember wanting to like it because

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Speaker 2: it was it was Carpenter. I think I saw it

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Speaker 2: after I saw In the Mouth of Madness, so I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, you know, I like Sam Neil, I

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Speaker 2: like John Carpenter. I have no reason to dislike Chevy Chase.

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Speaker 2: Jump right in and see how it goes. But but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's It's very highly regarded Otherwise. Now

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Speaker 2: as far as Body Bags goes, I've forgotten pretty much

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Speaker 2: everything about it except that John Carpenter of course, plays

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Speaker 2: the crypt keeper type character in this that's introducing the tails,

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Speaker 2: and that's that's pretty fun.

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Speaker 3: That reminds me. Do you think John Carpenter was originally

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Speaker 3: planning to play the old man on the bicycle in

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Speaker 3: this movie? The other reviewers online have pointed out, like, wow,

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Speaker 3: that really it kind of looks like John Carpenter looks now,

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Speaker 3: I remember, this is the old guy with the long

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Speaker 3: white hair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it, but you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe or it could have been, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of an inside thing with the effects crew. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It just looks like John Carpenter riding his bicycle back

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Speaker 3: to Blockbuster to return a rented copy of NBA Jam.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, at any rate, In the Mouth of Madness

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Speaker 2: was again not a box office success. It did not

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Speaker 2: win the critics over but people like me loved it.

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Speaker 2: The cult appreciation for it has only grown over the years.

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Speaker 2: And you know, part of this might be that, you know,

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Speaker 2: looking up the film, you know, here in the week

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Speaker 2: or so following Sam Neil's death, I noticed that if

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Speaker 2: you rank Carpenter's films by popularity on letterbox right now,

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Speaker 2: In the Mouth of Madness stands at number five, so

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Speaker 2: just behind the Thing Halloween, They Live and Escape from

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Speaker 2: New York, and one ahead of Seminole fan favorite Big

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Speaker 2: Trouble in Little China.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I would change that much, except

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Speaker 3: I I really love Prince of Darkness, of course, But

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people don't like that one

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Speaker 3: as much as I do, or as much as we do.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, I mean it's definitely up there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so so yeah, one of my favorites. It's

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Speaker 2: gonna be great to talk about it here today. I

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Speaker 2: also note that I mentioned Sandy King earlier. She was,

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Speaker 2: of course a producer on this film, and John Carpenter

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Speaker 2: and Sandy King's kid, Cody Carpenter, worked in the wardrobe

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Speaker 2: department on this movie. You know, kind of one of

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Speaker 2: those things you often see, I take your kid, sort

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Speaker 2: of take your kid to work movie, find something for

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Speaker 2: them to do. And of course Cody has worked with

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Speaker 2: John on a number of different musical collaborations in recent years.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about the We'll come back to

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Speaker 2: John Carpenter but when we get to the music. But

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Speaker 2: let's talk about the screenwriter, who is also the executive producer.

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Speaker 2: Michael de Luca born in nineteen sixty five. DeLuca was

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Speaker 2: president and COO for New Line Cinema at the time,

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Speaker 2: a position he held for years, and he remains one

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Speaker 2: of the most powerful names in Hollywood currently as co

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Speaker 2: chair and CEO of Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I would not have pegged this as a script

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Speaker 3: written by a film executive.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think when you get into to this guy's history,

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Speaker 2: it's like he is his roots are in screenwriting and

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Speaker 2: in horror, and then he becomes you know, the COO,

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Speaker 2: he becomes the CEO, he becomes the studio head. But

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Speaker 2: his roots seem very authentically in the horror realm. And

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Speaker 2: you see that carry over into some of the film

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Speaker 2: not some, but not all of the films that he

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Speaker 2: ended up green lighting, and maybe you know, helped sort of,

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Speaker 2: you know, push along the way towards the finish line

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Speaker 2: because as an EP. His other credits include films like

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Speaker 2: Dark City, Blade, Hedwig, and The Angry Inch, which isn't horror,

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Speaker 2: but I still included here because I like it. Blade

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Speaker 2: to various other films, and yeah, his production credits just

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Speaker 2: includes so many different pictures and big pictures as well.

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Speaker 2: But he started out as a screenwriter in primarily one

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Speaker 2: working in horror. As a writer, he wrote a twelve

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Speaker 2: minute short film adaptation of Stephen King's The lawnmower Man

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven. He did not direct it, but

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming this, I'm pretty sure this is one of

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Speaker 2: those dollar baby films. One of those situations where you

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Speaker 2: pay Stephen King a dollar and you get to adapt

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Speaker 2: as a film student one of his short stories.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would imagine that this was a more faithful

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Speaker 3: adaptation of the Stephen King short story.

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Speaker 2: And that's my understanding.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a groundskeeper who does pagan ceremonies about thing virtual

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Speaker 3: reality flowers for Algernon. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I haven't seen it, but that's my basic understanding.

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Speaker 2: But Michael de Luca really really begins to kick things

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Speaker 2: in a high year though. When he starts. He's writing

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Speaker 2: for the TV series Freddie's Nightmares in the late eighties. This,

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Speaker 2: of course, is a horror anthology show hosted by Freddy Krueger.

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Speaker 2: I remember watching some episodes, but I don't really remember

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Speaker 2: what they were like. Part of me wants to revisit

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Speaker 2: at least the first episode, but I have yet to

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, exact same experience here. I've seen it and

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Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you what happens in it, so doesn't

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Speaker 3: bode well for it. Not super memorable.

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Speaker 2: Around this time, he also served as EP on Leatherface,

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Speaker 2: Texas Chainsaw Massacre three that I haven't seen it in forever,

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Speaker 2: but I remember enjoying it for the most part, and

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Speaker 2: then he wrote and executive produced Freddy's Dead The Final

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Speaker 2: Nightmare in nineteen ninety one. Okay, I don't remember that one.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even sure if I've seen that one.

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Speaker 3: Not one of my faves.

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Speaker 2: Again, pretty much off to the races on the production

427
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Speaker 2: front at this point, and as a screenwriter, his credits

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Speaker 2: are limited to only a handful of other projects. At

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Speaker 2: this point. He mostly moves on into just you know,

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Speaker 2: full production work here and producer work, but his credits

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Speaker 2: simply His other writing credits include the TV series Dark

432
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: Justice ninety one through ninety three, and he has a

433
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: story credit on ninety five's Judge Dread, which is a

434
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: film I kind of want to come back to it at

435
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 2: some point because it's It's famously flawed in some key ways,

436
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: but as a as a Judge Dread reader, I have

437
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: to say I think it got a number of things right,

438
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: and I mostly have positive experiences from viewing it. It

439
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: doesn't do everything right, but it does some things really well.

440
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: He also has a story credit on a single episode

441
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: of Star Trek and Voyager.

442
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: I'm always imagining on the set of Judge Dread was

443
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 3: the director or whoever was in charge tempted to declare

444
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: that they were the law on the set and quiet down.

445
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: It may well have been a situation where different people

446
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: were claiming to be the law.

447
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, each asserting that they are the law. Yeah.

448
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean yeah, I mean that film has

449
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 2: such a terrific cast, has a great look, great effects.

450
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah you can. There's certainly some areas where it isn't

451
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: faithful to Judge Dread, but I would argue there's some

452
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: areas where it is more faithful to the Judge d

453
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: Read universe than the more recent film adaptation, which I

454
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: also really enjoyed. So I don't know. I'm just happy

455
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: to have a Judge Dread movie.

456
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: I guess maybe I'll have to check it out sometime.

457
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: We may spit on my list to reconsider, so maybe

458
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: one day. All right, But let's get into the cast

459
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: at this point. Starting with the star, it is, of

460
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: course Sam Neil playing John Trent. He lived nineteen forty

461
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: seven through twenty twenty six. Technically Sir Nigel John Dermott

462
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: Neil he was knighted, but yeah, I think he would

463
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: want us to call him Sam New Zealand actor probably

464
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: best known internationally for his association with the Jurassic Park

465
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: film franchise, having played the role of paleontologist doctor Alan

466
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: Grant in ninety three's Jurassic Park, two thousand and one's

467
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Jurassic Park three, and he shows back up again in

468
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: a supporting role in twenty twenty two's Jurassic World Dominion.

469
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 3: I'd say most remembered for the first one. I don't

470
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 3: know if as many people are thinking about the scene

471
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: in Jurassic Park three where he has a dream that

472
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: a raptor is talking to him.

473
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: I forgot about that one. I remember enjoying dress. I remember, like,

474
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: you know, loving loving Jurassic Parks so much and loving

475
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: Sam Neil in it, and being disappointed that he wasn't

476
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 2: going to be in the second one, and then saying

477
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: he's going to be in three, and I'm like, thank goodness,

478
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: thank goodness that doctor Alan Grant has come back to us.

479
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I had a feeling when I was

480
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: a kid that Ian Malcolm was a character that grown

481
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: ups liked more and I, for some reason, I was

482
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: a kid, and I'm like, we're Grant kids, you know,

483
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: where we're more into Grant and so I would have

484
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: been excited if he'd been in the second one, though

485
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 3: that's based on the book obviously, in which he's not

486
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 3: a major player in the book either. Yeah.

487
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 2: So, Sam Neil's film career began in nineteen seventy one

488
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: with the City of no for New Zealand Television, and

489
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: his first big break came after that in seventy seven

490
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: with Sleeping Dogs, which was screened internationally, so it was

491
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: getting more more eyes on his acting and his performances.

492
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: And in nineteen eighty one he really expanded in two

493
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: different films into both Hollywood and into the European film

494
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: scene with roles in the Omen The Final Conflict, and

495
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: we'll come back to that in a second. You can

496
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 2: tell me about that, because I haven't seen it, but

497
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 2: I know you have, as well as the psycho sexual

498
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: horror drama Possession, and that is from Andrei Zuwawski, director

499
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: of a film we've talked about on Weird House Cinema

500
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: on the Silver Globe.

501
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard for years that that one is worth

502
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: checking out, though I think it's supposed to be not

503
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: an easy watch. It's like it's like a rough, intense,

504
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: very dark movie, but it has earned a lot of praise,

505
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 3: and a lot of people praise Samuel in it. Omen

506
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 3: The Final Conflict exactly the opposite. It's been a while

507
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: since I've seen it, but I remember that being a

508
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 3: ludicrous and pretty funny third movie in the Omen series.

509
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: So you know, it's the kind of thing where like

510
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 3: the Omens sort of invented Actually I don't know if

511
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: it invented it, it was an early pioneer that I'm

512
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: aware of, in that final Destination style of movie where

513
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: just strange, elaborate mechanical deaths occur to people. You know,

514
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 3: oh look, you know, a spire fell off the top

515
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: of a church and hit somebody. And so that's a

516
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 3: lot of what you're looking for in the Omen movies,

517
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 3: like what weird stuff is going to happen to somebody

518
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 3: so that they are punished by Satan's wrath. And it

519
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: also is a weird thing to have Satan grow or

520
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: the Antichrist grown up in the third movie, because like

521
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 3: the whole point of the Omen as a premise is that, like,

522
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: what if the evil thing were a child? And so

523
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: when the third movie is not a child anymore, it's

524
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 3: just grown up.

525
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: Sam Neil does am I right in in this does

526
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: he become president?

527
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: Is that the Yeah? I think that's right. Something like

528
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 3: that happens.

529
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 2: Does he is he using his his authentic New Zealand

530
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: accent or is he doing an American accent?

531
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: You know, I don't recall. I'd imagine he's doing an

532
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: American accent. He could do one fine, I think.

533
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to say I do. I

534
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: like it best when Sam Neil uses his New Zealand accent,

535
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: though you know, I don't know it's it's not about authenticity,

536
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 2: it's about I don't know, it's just a nice accent.

537
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: I just like it. I prefer it. I prefer it

538
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: in his film roles.

539
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: It's always interesting to me when they have Sam Neil

540
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: playing a villain because and he does it well. I mean,

541
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 3: you know, I think the third Omen movie is quite silly,

542
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: but he has villainous moments in the mouth of Madness,

543
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: which he's very good. Obviously, he's you know, he's a

544
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: villain and other things, and he's great when he does it.

545
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: But I think Sam Neil really excels at projecting just

546
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: such a calmness and a reassuring presence. He has this

547
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: in moments as Alan Grant when you can like in

548
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: the scenes some of the more emotional scenes in the

549
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: movie where you know, he's portrayed as a as a

550
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: guy who doesn't like kids, but then he has to

551
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: provide comfort to children in the movie, and he's very

552
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: good at it. He suddenly can bring on this kind

553
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: of calming, reassuring fatherly presence. Yeah, and he's so good

554
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: at that. So it's a really funny thing that often

555
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: a lot of the roles we really like, or when

556
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: somebody was like, let's have you play a deeply disturbed

557
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: and you know you're gonna be talking about how we

558
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: don't need eyes to see where we're going.

559
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he had. I always had, I think, a

560
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: great balance of energies in its performance, so he could

561
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: play that likable and relatable, that calming and reassuring character

562
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: that you're talking about. He could certainly play play the

563
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: sinister villains. And then I think often by necessity it

564
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: is certainly in something like Event Horizon, he's able to

565
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: also play this place in between where he is he

566
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: is tormented like he can can and certainly we see

567
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: this in this film as well, where he is able

568
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: to sew entertainingly and believably express like extreme emotional states,

569
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: but while also still grounding everything in this you know, this, this,

570
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: this everyday reassuring demeanor.

571
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: So so he had all of these tools but also

572
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: being funny. I mean, I really want to highlight that

573
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: about in the mouth of madness, he brings a lot

574
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: of humor. It's understated humor, but it's it's great.

575
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I'm to understand, you know, like part

576
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: of that is also how he was. He was a

577
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: humorous guy. He was an easygoing guy. Carpenter compared him

578
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: to Kurt Russell in his sort of mix of easygoingness

579
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: and also consummate professionalism. Always great in a professional in

580
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: death or when you are yourself a professional and you

581
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: show up and you know your lines and you're devoted

582
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: to doing the job. I'll also add that, you know,

583
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: obviously he had leading man looks, you know, very handsome,

584
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: Chap had the acting chops to back it up. But

585
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: in rewatching man is one x. This is just an

586
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: extra little thing, you know, that's not the reason for anything.

587
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: But I took special note of the childhood scar that

588
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: runs down his forehead, not so pronounced that it's visible

589
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: in every scene. But it's one of those little facial

590
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: feature details that if the filmmakers are using just the

591
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: right lighting, it can be accentuated in such a way,

592
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: and I get the feeling. I've never seen an interview

593
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: where he's talking about this, either, but I feel like

594
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: Neil himself is maybe able to lean into that a

595
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: little as well, And this one physical trait can just

596
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: sort of heighten a particular expression, add an air of

597
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: like a good natured trickster or even the devil to

598
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: whatever he's doing on the screen. So I always admire

599
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: that as well.

600
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: There are absolutely scenes in the Mouth of Madness where

601
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 3: he becomes a trickster and he doesn't start that way. Yeah,

602
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: So it's a thing he has to toggle on and off. Yeah. Yeah.

603
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: So his subsequent nineteen eighties rolls included Let's see a

604
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: whole bunch of It, And I'm not going to list

605
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: everything that he did, but he did a nineteen eighty

606
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: two Ivanhoe TV movie. He was in a nineteen eighty

607
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: two spy thriller called Enigma from the director janeau Schwark,

608
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: who we talked about because he directed Santa Claus the

609
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: motion picture. Oh oh yeah, that guy. He had the

610
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: real the lead role in the eighty three mini series

611
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: Riley Ace of Spies. He was in the eighty seven

612
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: the eighty seven mini series America with a K. It's

613
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: not called America with a K, but it's America spelled

614
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: with a K. It's like a sort of an alt history,

615
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: all future kind of thing about the Soviets relationship between

616
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union and the United States. And then, of

617
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: course he's in the excellent nineteen eighty nine thriller Dead

618
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: Calm that, of course, co starred Nicole Kidman and Billy Zane.

619
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: Is it like a sailboat thriller.

620
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of the action takes place yet just

621
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: on this little sailboat, and a lot of it's, you know,

622
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: very performance driven. It's been a long time since I've

623
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: seen it, but I remember thinking it was pretty good.

624
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: I'll see. And then in the nineties, I'll see. In

625
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety he did the Hunt for at October, and

626
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: in ninety two he worked with Carpenter for the first

627
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: time on Memoirs of an Invisible Man, followed by the

628
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: supporting role in the nineteen ninety three Award Winner of

629
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: the Piano, and then came Jurassic Park in ninety three,

630
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: and we're only a year out at that point. Basically

631
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: from in the Mouth of Madness.

632
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: Oh that's funny. He went from Jurassic Park to the

633
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: Mouth of Madness. Yeah, Jurassic Park first. Yeah. Yeah.

634
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: It's always curious how these things line up with each other.

635
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: And in the years that followed, Let's See appeared in

636
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: ninety four as The Jungle Book, ninety five's restoration, Great book,

637
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: great film, Place the King. He's in ninety seven No White,

638
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: a Tale of Terror opposite Sigourney Weaver, which is a

639
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: film that I still have never seen. It's one of

640
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: those that every time I am reminded that it exists,

641
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, this looks great. It's like a horror fairy

642
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: tale with Sigourney Weaver and Sam Neil. But I've never actually,

643
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: you know, popped it in.

644
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: I like that pitch. For some reason, the title doesn't

645
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: attract me. I think it's because it's snow white colon something. Yeah,

646
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: that kind of repels me, but I don't want to

647
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: hold that against it. I should try. Yeah.

648
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: Then we get Event Horizon in ninety seven, which you

649
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: know we've talked a little bit about on the show

650
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: and might come back to in the future at some point.

651
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: But obviously that's a film sci fi horror that came

652
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: about it just the right time for a lot of

653
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: us out there, so a lot of us, I think,

654
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: have have fond experiences of certainly seeing it for the

655
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: first time and maybe coming back back to it at

656
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: various points later on.

657
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a film I associate with, Like, if you

658
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: like this movie, you also played Doom on a floppy disk?

659
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, And it's a you know, it's a

660
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: film that its influences are painstakingly obvious, but if if

661
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 2: you're willing to let that go, it's a pretty good time,

662
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: pretty influential as well. And Sam Neil is great and

663
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: he gets to play a little of everything. He used

664
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: to be the reassuring, calm guy who's explaining everything, he

665
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: gets to be the traumatized guy, and he gets to

666
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: be like a cinepite king of health essentially, So good stuff.

667
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: Let's see after this. The TV mini series Merlin in

668
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: ninety eight, bi Centennial Man in ninety nine, and the

669
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: rest of his career consisted of numerous film and TV projects,

670
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: roles small and large. Some of the standouts include TVs.

671
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: The Tutors two thousand and nine s Daybreakers, which is

672
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: like a sci fi vampire movie. That is also one

673
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: that I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen TV's Peaky Blinders,

674
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: which I just found out I've been I thought this

675
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: show was called Pinky Blinders. I've never watched it, but

676
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: it's just I kind of read it and then it

677
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: gets filed in my head as Pinky Blinders, and I'm like,

678
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 2: that sounds like Cockney lingo, right, But no, it's Peaky

679
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen's Hunt for the Wilder People, which which is excellent,

680
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: and I haven't seen this. But he also played the

681
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 2: role of Lord Carnarvon in the twenty sixteen mini series

682
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: tut In Common. That's, of course a historic figure that

683
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: we've talked about Lord Carnarvon as well as Student Common,

684
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: but we've talked about them on the show before. And

685
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: he has at least two twenty twenty seven films that

686
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: are in states of post production right now, including I'm

687
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: not sure how we are intended to say this out loud,

688
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: Godzilla times Kong, Colon Supernova, or maybe it's Godzilla x

689
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 2: Kong colon supernova.

690
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: I think that's an equation. So wait, hold on, you

691
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 3: divide by Kong and that gives you super Nova over Kong. Okay? Yeah?

692
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: Or yeah, if you multiply Kong by Godzilla, is it

693
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: the same. It's the same either way. You can multiply

694
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 2: Godzilla by Kong and it's still going to equal super

695
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: They should change it to.

696
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 3: That god Zilla equals super Nova divided by Kong.

697
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, But I mean, anyway it sounds. I'm sure

698
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: it's going to be. Yeah, kind of dumb and maybe

699
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: kind of awesome, and hey, you know, as of a

700
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: good a way as any to cap it all off.

701
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: Right, whoa, hey, reality warping incidents. Suddenly I had headphones on.

702
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: I just my earbuds were hurt in my ear I

703
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 3: had to change different headphones. That's why I look different now.

704
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: Oh, no worries. All right, Well, we'll have more to

705
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: say about Sam Neil's wonderful performance as we go on,

706
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: but let's talk about the rest of the cast. Linda

707
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: Styles we mentioned already, the editor of Sutter Kane, who's

708
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: part of the adventure, is played by Julie Carmen born

709
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four. American actress, dancer, and now apparently licensed psychotherapist.

710
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 3: Her first feature.

711
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: Film role was in the nineteen eighty thriller Night of

712
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 2: the Juggler, which I haven't seen, but I think video

713
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: Drome here in Atlanta was like stirring up excitement for

714
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: this and a screening of this maybe in the last

715
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: couple of years, so maybe I should check it out.

716
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: It's got to check it out good. It's got a

717
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: good cast. It looks like it's maybe a bit gritty,

718
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: but I think it's supposed to be good. And she

719
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: followed this up with Gloria nineteen eighty, Fright Night Part

720
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: two in eighty eight and Cold Heaven in ninety one.

721
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: Remained active on TV till at least twenty twenty two.

722
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: I like her in this movie, and I wonder several

723
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: things like did she perform her own demonic crack spine

724
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 3: exorcist crab walks or was that Do they get a

725
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: different performer or some kind of puppet to be oh

726
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: the crab walking head upside down.

727
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: I didn't check the credits on this, but I assume

728
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: that's got to be a stunt worker, a contortionist or something.

729
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: But very well dancer, though she's a dancer.

730
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: Maybe true, that's true.

731
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 3: Okay, they're looking for somebody who can both play this character.

732
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: You can act and you can do a demonic crab

733
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 3: walk where your head's upside down.

734
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. I think she's really

735
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 2: good in this, whether she's doing the cat the crab

736
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: walk or not, particularly during the middle part of the movie,

737
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: where you know, she almost becomes our sort of substitute

738
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: protagonist for a little spell there. Yeah, and then she

739
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: gets to also act crazy and possessed, so fun stuff

740
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: all around.

741
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: Well, I like that. In the part of the movie

742
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 3: where she's acting crazy and possessed, you get these moments

743
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 3: where she's like kind of explaining like I'm not sure

744
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: why I'm doing this, you know, or he's just writing

745
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: me to do this, so I have to do it,

746
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 3: which is very funny.

747
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I like her a lot, all right.

748
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: And then of course we have Sutter Kane himself, played

749
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: by Jurgen Procknow, German actor whose big break out role

750
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: was of course that of the captain in eighty one's

751
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: The Boat Doss Boat or Doss Boot however you end

752
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: up saying it. But yes, this is the German U

753
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: boat movie The German Submarine, and we of course previously

754
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: discussed this actor in our two parter on David Lynch's Dune,

755
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: in which he played Duke Leto.

756
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: The first that's hard to remember. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.

757
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: And he's good in the role. I mean, tremendous face

758
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: first of all, just a great face lighted anyway you

759
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: want a lot of topography there, I love it, and

760
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: great presence overall, really good at playing as far as

761
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: I know. These are the I mean it's certainly more

762
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: nuanced in the Boat, but in general he plays ends

763
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: up playing a lot of these roles, especially in his

764
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 2: Hollywood era, where he's playing somebody that's very stern, very serious,

765
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: and maybe a bit distant and in this case maybe

766
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 2: not even entirely human anymore.

767
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

768
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: So his filmography is all over the place, but a

769
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: few notable points include Michael Mann's The Keep in eighty three,

770
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: Twin Peaks, fire Walk with Me in ninety two, Judge

771
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: Dredd in ninety five, and The English Patient in ninety six.

772
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: You were talking about the expressiveness of his face. I

773
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 3: just had the thought because we were recently talking about

774
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: actors who had their faces accentuated to play a character

775
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: in Dick Tracy. I can't believe you're gon prop now

776
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: wasn't in Dick Tracy. I know it seem like he

777
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: should have been.

778
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a couple of actors in this film

779
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 2: who could be Dick Tracy characters. Yeah, Or you're thinking

780
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: of Prince Vigo. Yeah, yeah, we'll get to him in

781
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: a minute or two. But definitely he has you know,

782
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: he's a former boxer, so he has a he has

783
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 2: a face like a Dick Tracy film, for sure, totally.

784
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: So one thing I was thinking this is one of

785
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: those things I'd casually tossed around a little bit in

786
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: the past when watching this film or thinking about it.

787
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: But and that is, of course the fact that this

788
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: is a German actor and they and he has a

789
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: very pronounced German accent, and he's playing an author who

790
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: is seemingly writing his books in English, and his very

791
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 2: popular English language author. And I was thinking about how

792
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: in Carpenter's films we often have this case where everything

793
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: is kind of interestingly at scent blind in a way

794
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: that I kind of love. Like in Escape from New York,

795
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 2: we don't like no amount of screen time is spent

796
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: explaining why an obviously British Donald Pleasants is the president

797
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: of the United States.

798
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, in that case, you can almost I mean, I

799
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: don't think this is really the reason, but you can

800
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 3: imagine there's some kind of political explanation that the movie

801
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: doesn't go into. Maybe the United States and Great Britain

802
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: have somehow merged in that movie. Like it's like in

803
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: It's a Cyborg movie, we talked about Nemesis where suddenly like, oh,

804
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 3: we realized that the United States in Japan are one country.

805
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 3: Now yeah, yeah, maybe it's something like that.

806
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so, but you know, and I think Donald

807
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: Pleasants has had said in interviews that he had come

808
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: up with reason, like he had he had to have

809
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: that answer in order to play the part. But Carpenter

810
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: was like, was not as concerned with it.

811
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, no, Wight. I just thought of a

812
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: great one. It's he's actually American with an america An accent,

813
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: but he thought it'd be better for him to get

814
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: elected if he fakes a British accent.

815
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: Why not. But you know, in the same way, we

816
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: don't have any any explanation, nor do we need one

817
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: in this film. Why John Trent is you know, obviously

818
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: from New Zealand, and he's working as this in this

819
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: professional capacity in the US, and so likewise it's more

820
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: about like the right actor playing the role. So here,

821
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: you know, we're not really concerned with the fact that

822
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 2: this is, you know, a German Man that is writing

823
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: in English. I think, uh, in my most recent rewatch,

824
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 2: I couldn't help but kind of compare him a little

825
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: bit to German author Michael Inda, who who to be clear,

826
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: wrote in German but also covered you know, this sort

827
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: of interplay of fantasy and reality. And then on a

828
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: practical level, I think having a German actor here, having

829
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 2: procnow in this role serves as a nice way to

830
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 2: firmly differentiate Kine from Stephen King and from HP Lovecraft.

831
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are some things that make me

832
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: think Cain is supposed to be linked to King in Lovecraft.

833
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: I mean Lovecraft in the flavor of the mythos. Yeah,

834
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: it's very love Crafty and just in the types of

835
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 3: beings and the types of doom that are forecasted in

836
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 3: the film.

837
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: Uh.

838
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: And it's very Stephen King in that it's like a

839
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 3: very popular author who has these you know, his paperbacks

840
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: look like Stephen King paperbacks, a popular twentieth century author

841
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 3: who is from New England, who in this case it's

842
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 3: not a Maine, but it's New Hampshire. I think it's

843
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: New Hampshire. And is it vermonern No, it's New Hampshire.

844
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to cut up on my paper book

845
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: backs and find out. Yeah, I could remind me.

846
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: But yeah, clearly, I think there are intentional nods to King.

847
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: But I see what you're saying. I think they also like,

848
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: while they're on one hand pointing to King, they're also

849
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 3: saying like, but he's not Stephen King. Yeah, and that's

850
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 3: like the line in the movie where they're like, who's

851
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 3: the Stephen King? You know, he can't he can't compete

852
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: at all with Sutter Kane. And also yeah, he's got

853
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: a German accent, so you're really not confused.

854
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, like the the author as we

855
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: experience him is like a fitting extenuation of the ideas

856
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: that he is. We're to understand he writes, whereas you know,

857
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: Stephen King's you know, like he's a fun, fun seeming guy.

858
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: He's a little bit goofy in real life. You know,

859
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 2: and in the best of ways. So it's it would

860
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: be weird if you had it would be a very

861
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: different film if you had someone like Stephen King instead

862
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 2: of like a stoic face of horror, which we have here. Yeah,

863
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: I think you could have had someone like a Vincent

864
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: Price and a younger Vincent Price played the roll and

865
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: it would have also worked really well, you know, you

866
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: need somebody sinister.

867
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now it's funny. We we have watched movies on

868
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: a weird house before, where Stephen King plays in the

869
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: movies as an actor, and you could have gone that route.

870
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 3: Remember when he's the he's the cemetery keeper in Sleepwalkers,

871
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 3: Who's like, I can't be troubled of every weirdo and

872
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 3: horny kid who comes in here.

873
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: Oh God, I love Stephen King, but hey, how bad

874
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: would it have been if he played sutter Kane. I

875
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: don't think King would have wanted that.

876
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: Either, sutter Kane with Jordi Verel energy.

877
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, well let's get into the supporting cast here,

878
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: a number of our favorite show I mean, this film's

879
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: cast is really really something else, you know, maybe not

880
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: Dune level of deep, but still some great talent here.

881
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: And we have David Warner, who lived nineteen forty one

882
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: through twenty twenty two, playing doctor Wrenn. Somehow, this is

883
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: only our second David Warner film. We previously talked about

884
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: him in our episode in nineteen seventy nine's Time After Time,

885
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: in which he played a time traveling Jack the Ripper.

886
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: I would have thought we would do more David Warner.

887
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: I love some David Warner.

888
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll inevitably do more. But yeah, terrific and

889
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: varied filmography that includes such films as seventy six is

890
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 2: the Omen, eighty one's Time I'm Bandits, eighty two's Tron,

891
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: eighty four is the Company of Wolves, Let's see ninety seven,

892
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: Scream Too, which I did not know he was in,

893
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: as well as of course Titanic.

894
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 3: Oh, I definitely remember him in Titanic. I don't remember

895
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 3: what he is in Scream Too, and maybe it's a

896
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: maybe it's a minor role that I'm more, Yeah, don't.

897
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 3: He plays one of my favorite devils ever in Time Bandits,

898
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: So he's not exactly the devil, but he's evil. He's

899
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 3: a devil like figure, but he's clueless about and yet

900
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 3: obsessed with technology, He's always like he's trying to get

901
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: this magic mirror to tell him, tell me about subscriber,

902
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 3: try dialing.

903
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was so good, and here he has a

904
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 2: he has a great little role. He is a very

905
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: worried and I'm not even sure what he exactly is.

906
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: We get the idea, you know, correct me if I'm

907
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: wrong and I'm missing something here, but I don't think

908
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: we know if he's a government agent, a government doctor,

909
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 2: or some of their kind of official. I think Trent

910
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: says something like, it must be pretty bad out there

911
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: if you guys are involved, But we don't get a

912
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: zoom in on that name tact to see who he's

913
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 2: associated with, right.

914
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: I think it's actually Sapristine played by John Glove. When

915
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: he arrives, he's like, yeah, if they're sending y'all here,

916
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 3: he doesn't say y'all. He's not Southern like us. If

917
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 3: they're sending you guys here, something must be getting really

918
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 3: bad out there. Yeah.

919
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a great performance here and then moving

920
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: on to Sapristine. Sapristine is played by John Glover for

921
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: nineteen forty four terrific American actor of stage, screen and

922
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: TV who often brings that impish quality to the characters

923
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: he plays. We previously talked about him at some link

924
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: in our episode on nineteen nineties Grimlins Too, the new

925
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: batch in which he plays Daniel Clamp, Yes, Daniel Clamp, the.

926
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 3: Sort of the alternate universe, much more silly and benign tromp.

927
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: There you go.

928
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, with a little Ted Turner in there as well.

929
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 2: As we discussed in that episode, it's it's far from

930
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: just a Trump parody. It's something much more nuanced, and

931
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: thank goodness because it makes Grimlins Too so much more rewatchable. Yeah,

932
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 2: but yeah, John Glover's terrific number of number of great

933
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 2: performances over the years. He shows up in RoboCop two.

934
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 2: He's an Annie Hall five time Emmy nominee and two

935
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 2: time Tony nominee, and he won the Tony for Waiting

936
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: for Godot in two thousand and nine. So great impish

937
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: energy here. This dude certainly reads Cetter Kane. I think

938
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: it's even from the get go you can tell this

939
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: guy reads Setter Kane well.

940
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: I like his energy is very much like a nervous

941
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 3: kindergarten teacher. He like over enunciates all of his lines

942
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 3: and speaks very slowly as if he's speaking to children.

943
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 3: But it's not just because he plays a doctor in

944
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 3: like a mental hospital. Like he sort of talks that

945
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 3: way to David Warner as well.

946
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so great, great weird little performance here.

947
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: I love it all right. Some of the smaller roles

948
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: that are supporting here, we also have a number of

949
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: other repeat customers here from Weird House Cinema. We have

950
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 2: Bernie Casey playing all Right Robinson. Bernie Casey lived thirty

951
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: nine through twenty seventeen. This is our third Bernie Casey film.

952
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 2: We previously discussed him in our episodes on seventy two's

953
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: Gargoyles and seventy six is the man who fell to Earth.

954
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: In this movie, he plays John Trent's the main guy

955
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: that John Trent works for Trinsett. He's independent, he's a freelancer,

956
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 3: but this is like his main client. He's an insurance

957
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 3: underwriter and he's the guy who has written the bond

958
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 3: for the publishing house that lost track of their star author.

959
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah. It's a small role, but it's

960
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 2: really good and it's the only time that Carpenter worked

961
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: with him. But he had only great things to say

962
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: about him in this part of the film too early

963
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: go into the film. It's about establishing what Trent does

964
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 2: in the real world, his work, and also his his

965
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: sort of core values, his independence. You know, he's a

966
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: freelancer baby, and also he doesn't he doesn't trust nobody.

967
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: He's looking for the scam anywhere you look. There's a

968
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: lot of gumshoe energy, a lot of you know, really

969
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 2: kind of like noir energy to Trent as he's initially

970
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 2: laid out.

971
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

972
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: We get this great scene where he's busting an amateur

973
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 2: con artist, mister Paul, played by frequent Carpenter and Walter

974
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: Here Walter Hill casting selection, Peter Jason.

975
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 3: We talked about him in Prince of Darkness because he

976
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 3: plays one of the scientists. He's he always like whistling

977
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: or something.

978
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's he's a little bit of a trouble maker,

979
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: but yeah, he's in Prince of Darkness. He also was

980
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: on the commentary track with Carpenter on that one and

981
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 2: that one is one. It was a lot of fun,

982
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: like clearly two guys who get along really well, you know,

983
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: just shooting the ball about this film from years back

984
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 2: and in addition to Prince of Darkness and a number

985
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: of other Carpenter films, he was, like i say, repeat

986
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: performer with Carpenter. He also pops up in ninety five's Congo,

987
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: which has been featured in Weird House Cinema and Mortal Kombat.

988
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: You remember he has a very brief role in that

989
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: as well.

990
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 3: What is is he like Johnny Cage's agent or something?

991
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: Yes, and then we find out no, it's shenksin the

992
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: whole time.

993
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right.

994
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so technically he has played shnsin Oh Perfect.

995
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

996
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's also an eighty four's Dreamscape, eighty eight Alien Nation, Yeah,

997
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen's Hail Caesar, and he's also in a Jurassic

998
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 2: Park film. He's in twenty eighteen's Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom.

999
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: Okay, well here he's like a he's a slimy, sweaty

1000
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 3: guy who's getting getting caught up in all of his lies. Yeah.

1001
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a small role, but really fun.

1002
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 3: Okay.

1003
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: Then we also have Jackson Harglow. He's he's the head,

1004
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: he's like the main publisher, the head of this publishing

1005
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 2: house that is hoping to publish this new book from

1006
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: Sutter Kane.

1007
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: He read Horror by the way, Yeah it doesn't read it.

1008
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: You don't have thiscom for it. He's all business and

1009
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 2: he's played by Charlton Heston, who lived nineteen twenty three

1010
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: through two thousand and eight. This is our actual first

1011
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 2: Chuck Heston movie. He keeps coming up because if somebody's

1012
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 2: been in a film with Charlton Heston, you know, tends

1013
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: to be the kind of thing you mentioned. But this

1014
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: is the first time we've actually discussed one of his movies.

1015
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of surprising to me. I guess we

1016
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: haven't done any of the early Planet of the Apes movies,

1017
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 3: despite the fact that they were the punchline of a joke.

1018
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: I remember thinking the last time I saw a Planet

1019
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 3: of the Apes that it's a pretty great movie.

1020
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember being blown away from way

1021
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: by it. I think when I actually saw it, I

1022
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: somehow not had the ending spoiled for me, like I

1023
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: caught it early enough on TV before I could watch

1024
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: you know, too much Simpsons or something, you know, and

1025
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: have it spoiled by pop culture. So it's quite good.

1026
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 2: And I enjoyed some of the sequels as well. So

1027
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: this is obviously late career for the nineteen sixty been

1028
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: her Oscar winner Charlton Heston. He was coming off of

1029
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: I think smaller roles and you know, little supporting roles

1030
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: and things like ninety three's Tombstone, ninety four is True Lives,

1031
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: True Lives rather and he'd continued to work here and

1032
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: there in small ways for much of the next decade,

1033
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 2: including playing an ape called Zayas in two thousand and

1034
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 2: one's Planet of the Apes.

1035
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: Oh how the tables have turned?

1036
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he plays like a wise old ape

1037
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: who also has a gun.

1038
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1039
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 2: I remember that. That was kind of like a weird

1040
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: end joke because of his association with what the NRA

1041
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: at the time.

1042
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a strange choice. Yeah. I ever saw that

1043
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: two thousand and one Planet of the Apes.

1044
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I did. And it has a great

1045
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: cast and it has some great ape of but that's

1046
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 2: the main thing I remember about it. But I have

1047
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: a feeling we'll come back to Charlton Heston later on

1048
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: in weird House cinema, because if nothing else, I think

1049
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: we'll end up having to watch the Omega man.

1050
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, there we go.

1051
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Other supporting actors Francis Bay plays Missus Pickman,

1052
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 2: who you know, first just seems like you're, you know,

1053
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: slightly weird, you know, old woman running an inn. But

1054
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 2: then we find out that, you know, there's a much

1055
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:28,959
Speaker 2: more sinister streak here.

1056
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: This af feel like I'm sorry to interrupt. She was

1057
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 3: in every single nineties movie that had a sweet old

1058
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:35,919
Speaker 3: lady in. Yes.

1059
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 2: Yes, she made a career out of a multi decade career.

1060
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: I think playing sweet old ladies, playing different. She was

1061
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: everybody's auntie and everybody's grandpa from like, you know, seventy

1062
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 2: six through twenty eleven.

1063
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: Wow.

1064
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she pops up in things like just to

1065
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: name a few, eighty Three's a Rose for Emily, eighty six,

1066
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: is Blue Velvet, nineteen nineties, Wild at Heart, ninety one's

1067
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: three Stuart Gordon's The Pit in the Pendulum from the

1068
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: same year, ninety two, Twin Peaks, Firewalk with Me, Single

1069
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 2: White Female, and also nineteen ninety six is Happy Gilmore.

1070
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Happy Gilmore. You know that could almost be a

1071
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 3: weird house cinema movie. Yeah, it's about that weird, but yeah,

1072
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 3: I really remember her from that, from like my elementary

1073
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 3: school days.

1074
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we alluded to this guy already, but

1075
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 2: we have Wilhelm von Homberg. This is a I forget

1076
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: what his birth name was. This is kind of a

1077
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: show name. Plays the character Simon in this dooms townsperson

1078
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: in the town of hobbs End. This actor lived in

1079
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 2: nineteen forty through two thousand and four. German pro wrestler

1080
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: turned boxer turned character actor, active on TV as early

1081
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 2: as sixty four in an episode of gun Smoke. Appears

1082
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 2: uncredited in Hitchcock's Torn Curtain in sixty six and basically

1083
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: found a some sort of a career playing heavies and

1084
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: with a face like this, you know, former boxer, it

1085
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 2: makes makes perfect sense. His other credits include sixty eight's

1086
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: The Devil's Brigade, sixty eight's The Wrecking Crew, Werner Herzog's

1087
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: Strozik in seventy seven, He's one of the Goons, and

1088
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: die Hard in eighty eight, and of course in Ghostbusters two.

1089
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: In eighty nine, he plays Vigo the Carpathian. But it's

1090
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: not his voice, that's right. Apparently he like, you know,

1091
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: he voiced the character when they filmed it, but his

1092
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: you know, as we hear him in this film, this

1093
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: is his actual voice. They wanted something like a little

1094
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: more regal, and so Max Sooncito did the voice over

1095
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: for him. And I've read accounts that this actor was

1096
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 2: I didn't find out about it till the screening, and

1097
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 2: you know, and was offended by it and stormed out.

1098
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: But I'm like this, you know, goes for the podcast

1099
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: as well. If you replaced my voice with Max Doncito,

1100
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: you know, fair enough, that's a great voice. I can't really,

1101
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: I don't really have room to complain.

1102
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 3: I'd put a star that and I'd say I wouldn't

1103
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 3: mind being replaced by real Max von s. Yes, they're

1104
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 3: going to bring in an Ai Max von Set, I'd say, no,

1105
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 3: thank you.

1106
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: That would to bother me. No thank you to that. Yes,

1107
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: but yeah, this guy, this guy, I'm not going to

1108
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: get into it. This guy has a really complex and

1109
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: at times disturbing bio, and I would just say, if

1110
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 2: you want to learn more about him, look around. I

1111
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: was reading a dead Spin article from twenty fifteen called

1112
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: the Hateful Life and Spiteful Death of the Man who

1113
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 2: is Vego the Carpathian. Oh yeah, I had no idea. Yeah,

1114
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 2: there's a there's a lot there. So if you're in

1115
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: for that sort of thing, go for it. Otherwise I'll

1116
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: just say fun small character role in this picture. You know,

1117
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: he does a good job playing a haunted, doomed character.

1118
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe best to let Peter McNichols speak for him.

1119
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, there's just so many great little roles. I

1120
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: you know, I can't give him all justice, but I'll

1121
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: just say in Passing early on, we get an axe

1122
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 2: maniac with weird eyes, and he's played by a Canadian

1123
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: screen and TV actor named Conrad Bergschneider. And he's he's

1124
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 2: really good in this role, in great creepy presence. And

1125
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 2: it should come as no surprise that he also has

1126
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: a role in twenty twelve Silent Hill Revelation, because it

1127
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 2: seems like just based on this one film that I've

1128
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 2: seen him in the Mouth of Madness, Like, yeah, this

1129
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: is a guy that should play someone in Silent Hill.

1130
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 3: Yes, you get the feeling if you walk around with

1131
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: this guy, you would get to like dead end streets

1132
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 3: that are just a bunch of you know, blankets hanging

1133
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 3: over something, so scaffolding with sheets.

1134
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, really good, really good, good performance here

1135
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 2: he brings his fog with him. Yeah, I'll just mention

1136
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 2: in passing that the paper boy who pops up in

1137
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: the film is played by Hayden Christensen, a young unknown

1138
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: actor at the timehood yet to fulfill his destiny.

1139
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 3: And then I haven't even discovered yet his feelings about sand.

1140
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 2: No, no, that's yeah, that's right. And then also playing

1141
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: fan in bookstore, we have Jim Fife, TV actor, best

1142
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: known for his role as Kimmy the Geek on The

1143
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 2: X Files and The Lone Gunman.

1144
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 3: Now I had to look this guy up to see

1145
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 3: if you meant that he was one of the three

1146
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: the Lone Gunman from the X Files and Lone Gunman.

1147
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 3: He's not. This is not for the supporting character. To

1148
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 3: the supporting character. Yeah, because for a second I was like, oh,

1149
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 3: did I miss fro Hickey in all right?

1150
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: And then finally I mentioned Gary B. Kibbi, already the

1151
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: cinematographer of nineteen forty one through twenty twenty this let's see.

1152
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 2: His first film as cinematographer was Carpenter's Prince of Darkness,

1153
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: and we mentioned him in that, but ended up working

1154
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 2: with Carpenter a bunch more and again he and up

1155
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 2: through at least Ghosts of Mars so longtime collaborated with Carpenter,

1156
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 2: and definitely if you want to hear his thoughts on

1157
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: putting this film together, check out that commentary track and

1158
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: then the music. The music is always an essential part

1159
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: of any John Carpenter film. Carpenter does have musical credit

1160
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: here for the score, but he shares it with Jim

1161
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: Lang Born nine, Team fifty. So Jim Lang's musical credits

1162
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: go back to a seventy eight episode of PBS's Nova,

1163
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: the science series. I didn't have a time. I didn't

1164
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 2: have time to actually look up the episode of it's

1165
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 2: called the insect Alternative, which alternative to what? I don't know.

1166
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.

1167
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know if it's about eating insects or

1168
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: replacing them with robots. But something that we're talking about

1169
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 2: in seventy eight, about.

1170
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: This insects could be the alternative to you're right, like

1171
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 3: meat maybe, or about cars? Cars, you know, make cars

1172
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 3: out of insects, Yeah, travel by insects, cigars, I don't know, perfect, yeah,

1173
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: instead of tobacco. Yeah, we're just saying, consider it whatever

1174
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 3: it is. But he also worked a considerable amount of TV,

1175
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 3: especially children's TV, particularly the series Hey Arnold, which I

1176
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: believe he did the theme song for. Okay.

1177
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: Carpenter had previously worked with Laying on the nineteen ninety

1178
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: three TV horror anthology Body Bags, and on this one

1179
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,959
Speaker 2: the score in general, Carpenter notably went for a hard

1180
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: rock feel in parts of the score, something that you

1181
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 2: know he'd already I guess experimented with a little bit

1182
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: in eighty six is Big Trouble in Little China. There's

1183
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 2: some definite like rock guitar vibes in that score, and

1184
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 2: then of course he would go all in on this

1185
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: for two thousand and one's Ghosts of Mars, which I

1186
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: don't know we may eventually cover, but that's one where

1187
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: he goes there's a lot of new metal vibes there.

1188
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: But apparently Carpenter initially at some point was interested in

1189
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 2: licensing Metallica's Inner Sandman for In the Mouth of Madness,

1190
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 2: but it was too pricey, and so instead he worked

1191
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 2: with Laying as well as guitarist Dave Davies of The Kinks,

1192
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 2: to create the driving main track of In the Mouth

1193
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: of Madness, which I have to say I've always been

1194
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: a fan of. I love this.

1195
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm going to say It's not my favorite of Carpenter's

1196
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 3: musical work, but I do like it. I like it

1197
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 3: in the movie. I'm quite surprised to hear Dave Davies

1198
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: here because it just doesn't sound like Dave Davies or

1199
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 3: like the Kinks at all. It sounds like more kind

1200
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 3: of eighties or eighties early nineties style hard rock.

1201
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not sure on what his full

1202
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 2: contribution was, but he is credited for that for just

1203
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 2: that one track. The rest is all credited to laying

1204
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 2: a Carpenter. And to be clear, like not everything that

1205
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 2: you hear in the score for in the Mouth of

1206
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: Madness is guitars. Like a lot of it is more

1207
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: I think identifiable as that, you know, the creepy Carpenter,

1208
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 2: dark ambient kind of vibe. Yeah, Now, Joe, I don't

1209
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: know much about Dave Davies born nineteen forty seven or

1210
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: honestly the Kinks. I mean, I know, Lola, and I

1211
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: know you really got me, But I'm to understand he's

1212
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 2: often credited is playing a key role in the birth

1213
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: of what we've come to know is hard rock. Is

1214
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 2: that is that accurate?

1215
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? So you had a note about this, I ended

1216
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 3: up writing too much about this, so apologies if I'd

1217
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 3: go on too long. But you can't really say that

1218
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 3: any one person invented hard rock. I don't think that

1219
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 3: there's really an answer there, because it's like atty fuzzy category.

1220
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 3: And there are a lot of songs in the fifties

1221
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 3: and the sixties that arguably meet some of the criteria

1222
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 3: and people would point to. But one of the main

1223
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 3: features defining the sound of hard rock is heavily distorted guitars.

1224
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 3: Where you know, that means the top of the waveform

1225
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 3: is squared off. This is called clipping, and today people

1226
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 3: get distorted guitar tones either by using pedals or digital processing,

1227
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 3: or I guess the more natural ways. They turn their

1228
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 3: amplifiers up to the point where the signal gets overdriven,

1229
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:36,959
Speaker 3: meaning that the amp circuit runs out of what gets

1230
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 3: called headroom. This means the waveform is naturally squared off

1231
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 3: because the amplitude is too great for the circuit of

1232
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: the amplifier to pass it along faithfully.

1233
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: So max headroom is a reference to this.

1234
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 3: Well, max headroom would refer to a style of amplifier

1235
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 3: that you could turn up very loud without getting any distortion,

1236
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 3: and in fact, this was how they used to try

1237
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 3: to make you know, some amplifiers still go for this today,

1238
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 3: where you want a lot of headroom, you want to

1239
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 3: be able to turn it out, turn it up loud

1240
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 3: without getting distortion. And that is how that used to

1241
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 3: be the standard for basically all guitar amplifiers. So that

1242
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 3: is the kind of amplifier apparently Dave Davies was dealing

1243
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 3: with in this story from nineteen sixty four. There are

1244
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 3: different versions of it, but basically it goes that in

1245
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 3: sixty four, Dave and his brother Ray Davies were practicing

1246
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: the song you Really Got Me a Girl, You Really

1247
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 3: Got Me Going Now, and he was trying. Dave was

1248
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 3: trying to get a harder, harsher sound out of his

1249
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 3: guitar and amplifier, but distortion and overdrive pedals weren't really

1250
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 3: a thing yet. I think I looked it up and

1251
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 3: I think there might have been like one early fuzz

1252
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 3: pedal out at this point, but Dave didn't have one.

1253
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 3: And as I said, most amplifiers at the time were

1254
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 3: designed specifically to avoid distortion. You know, the engineers thought,

1255
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 3: you don't want distortion, it's a bad thing. So Dave

1256
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 3: is trying to get the amplifier to distort more, and

1257
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: he got the idea to try destroying the speaker cone

1258
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 3: on the amplifier, so he was slashing it with a razor,

1259
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: among other not recommended practices. And there's also an account

1260
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 3: that he was like running one amplifier into another amplifier,

1261
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: which is something you should not do. Ok. But anyway,

1262
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 3: after this, the sound that came out was very harsh,

1263
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 3: very distorted, and that's allegedly what you hear, at least

1264
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 3: according to one of these tellings on the classic recording

1265
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 3: of You Really Got Me. And this is one of

1266
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 3: the early songs that people flag as like a you know,

1267
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 3: a sort of proto example of hard rock or even

1268
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 3: a precursor to punk.

1269
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 2: All right, so base, So it makes sense that Carpenter's like,

1270
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: I want this to be hard rock. I need to

1271
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 2: contact somebody. I need a console from someone who knows

1272
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 2: how to make something hard rock. Let's get Dave Davies in.

1273
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 3: Here, somebody who could think to slash open a speaker

1274
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 3: cone and dangerously, you know, wire up amplifiers in a

1275
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:58,439
Speaker 3: way that you shouldn't. Yeah, but yeah, I'll just say

1276
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 3: as a side note. You know, Ray Day is the

1277
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 3: main singer and wrote a lot of the songs of

1278
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 3: the Kinks, but I really like a lot of Dave

1279
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 3: Davies stuff. Dave Davies wrote the Kink song Strangers from

1280
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy. Do you know that one?

1281
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: Ooh, not by name. It's maybe one of those that

1282
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: if I heard it it would ring a bell.

1283
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: But strangers on this road we are on, we are

1284
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 3: not two, we are one. It's beautiful song. It's one

1285
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 3: of my favorites.

1286
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'll look it up after we're done

1287
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 2: recording here, but at any rate, yeah, I really like

1288
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 2: the music. And in the Mouth of Madness, And I

1289
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 2: should also point out that that main track, the title

1290
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 2: track from In the Mouth of Madness years later on

1291
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 2: one of the releases has come out in recent years.

1292
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 2: Carpenter and his son Cody end up like doing and

1293
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure some collaborators end up doing like a new

1294
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: version of it, which also sounds pretty good.

1295
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 3: I would like to hear that.

1296
01:07:49,680 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, let's let's get into it. Let's

1297
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: get into the plot. Let's let's let's enter the picture.

1298
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: Now full disclosure, we were rushing to get ready today.

1299
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 3: So there's a part in the middle of my plot

1300
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 3: notes here where notes get very thin. Rob, you're gonna

1301
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 3: have to help me sort of improvise and talk through

1302
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 3: it when we get to that point. I've sort of

1303
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 3: got more thicker notes at the beginning and ending. But

1304
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: as for the opening, I like the choice of what

1305
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 3: they did here. So you get this metal track right

1306
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the or maybe not metal, hard rock,

1307
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 3: whatever you call it, at the beginning, and I thought

1308
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 3: it's funny that you you've probably heard of heavy metal

1309
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 3: parking lot, but this movie brings you heavy metal printing press. Yeah,

1310
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 3: we don't think of the printing press as and especially

1311
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 3: metal or hard rock subject, but it is here, and

1312
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 3: it kind of works like the you see all the

1313
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 3: parts kind of clattering and clacking and all of the

1314
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: you know, the sheets moving really fast as they go

1315
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 3: through the printer, and somehow it fits. It fits with

1316
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 3: the hard rock theme.

1317
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's chugging along. Yeah.

1318
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 3: And once of course we know the themes of the movie,

1319
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 3: this will have additional sinister implications because it's just like,

1320
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 3: look at the rate and the volume at which this,

1321
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 3: you know, mind rending materials being produced, so after the credits,

1322
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 3: the action begins with an ambulance arriving at a mental hospital,

1323
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 3: with the first meeting of John Glover as Sapristine. He

1324
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 3: has this very funny energy that I mentioned earlier, the

1325
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 3: kind of nervous kindergarten teacher. He's anxiously fiddling with his buttons,

1326
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 3: he's over enunciating the words he speaks. Sapristine and his

1327
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 3: colleagues line up to meet the new patient coming in,

1328
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 3: who is dragged in in a straight jacket by a

1329
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 3: couple of orderlies. And this is Sam Neil as John Trent,

1330
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 3: our protagonist. When we first meet him here, he is

1331
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 3: not looking too hot, not your standard dapper Sam Neil.

1332
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 3: He's got, you know, dark circles under his eyes. His

1333
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 3: hair's all greasy and messed up. He looks like he's

1334
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 3: been having a rough times. As the orderlies are bringing

1335
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 3: him in, a fire breaks out, in which Trent lands

1336
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 3: a brutal kick to the crotch on one of them.

1337
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 3: They eventually subdue him and take him to a padded

1338
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 3: cell while he screams. And here we get I think

1339
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 3: a somewhat famous line among fans, the part where he yells,

1340
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 3: I'm sorry about the balls. It was a lucky shot,

1341
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 3: that's all. And Trent, after they leave, he's yelling out

1342
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 3: through the window in the door. He yells out that

1343
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 3: he is not insane, and then all of the other

1344
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 3: patients in the rooms all down the hall begin yelling

1345
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 3: about how they too are not insane, and then Sapristein

1346
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 3: reacts to this by playing over the loud speakers some music.

1347
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 3: It is We've only just begun and Trent as the

1348
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 3: music comes on and some of the other patients starts

1349
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 3: singing along with it, and then Trent says, oh no,

1350
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 3: not the carpenter's too, and he sings to the floor

1351
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 3: in despair as everybody's singing along to the song. But

1352
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 3: then in the middle of the verse to the song,

1353
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,839
Speaker 3: the lights in the hospital begin to flicker and dim

1354
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 3: and the hall becomes silent, and behind Trent we see

1355
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 3: a figure move in the dark. Trent turns to face

1356
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 3: the figure. He says, this is a rotten way to

1357
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 3: end it. The figure says, we're going to hear a

1358
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 3: German accent here, So I think you know, if you

1359
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 3: have some meta knowledge, you know who this is. The

1360
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 3: figure says this is not the ending. You haven't read

1361
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 3: it yet. And suddenly a monstrous hand smashes through the

1362
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 3: glass to the window to Trent's cell, and there's a

1363
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 3: rush of images. We see things like a gold sort

1364
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 3: of lined mosaic tile, mosaic of Christ. We see a

1365
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 3: fire axe covered in blood. We see a Byzantine church

1366
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 3: with black minarets, a child with a monstrous mutated face,

1367
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 3: creatures with piranha teeth illuminated by lightning, and just maniacal laughter,

1368
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 3: somebody laughing in the darkness, and Trent collapses on his mattress.

1369
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 3: Later that night, we're to assume, I think it's supposed

1370
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 3: to be the same night. A psychiatrist or somebody psychiatry

1371
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 3: adjacent named doctor Wren played by David Warner arrives at

1372
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 3: the hospital. He briefly talks to Sapristine. It seems Trent

1373
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 3: is displaying the same symptoms as other people that they're

1374
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 3: both aware of, and they say things like you think

1375
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 3: he's one of them, And soa Pristine says, things must

1376
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 3: be getting pretty bad out there to bring you fellas in.

1377
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 3: Warner asks did he have any requests? And so Pristine says,

1378
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 3: just one a single black crayon, and then David goes

1379
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 3: in for an interview with Trent and Rob. Can we

1380
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 3: describe here the iconic set of Trent's Trent's now decorated

1381
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 3: and you might say like apatropeized, apatropee magicized, padded room

1382
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 3: and his self, his body and his clothing.

1383
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's taken. He's apparently used that black crayon just

1384
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: all the way down to the nub and then into

1385
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 2: and just you know, used it all up in order

1386
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 2: to draw crosses, variety of different types of crosses, all

1387
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 2: over the walls of the cell, on the floor of

1388
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 2: his cell, and of course all over his clothing and

1389
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: all over his face. So you know, he seems a

1390
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 2: bit calmer, like he's done all that he can and

1391
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: maybe this is in his mind anyway, giving him just

1392
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 2: a little bit of protection and a little bit of

1393
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 2: breathing room against all of the growing darkness out in

1394
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 2: the world.

1395
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very cool look. I like it a lot,

1396
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 3: especially that not all the crosses are the same. You

1397
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,879
Speaker 3: get the different shapes and sizes and all that. Anyway,

1398
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 3: as the doctor comes in, Trent explains that he has

1399
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 3: changed his mind. He no longer wants out of the institution.

1400
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:41,560
Speaker 3: He's decided it's safer in here. They have an exchange

1401
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 3: where Trent says, you're waiting to hear about my them,

1402
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 3: aren't you, and Wren says, no, I want to know

1403
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 3: how you got here. There's more general illusion during this

1404
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 3: conversation to the fact that something is going very wrong

1405
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 3: in the world outside, but Ren steers the conversation back

1406
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 3: to Trent's story. So here we flash back to New

1407
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 3: York City earlier that year, and now we get to

1408
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 3: know Trent while he is in full form, before he

1409
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 3: has you know, before whatever change that brought him to

1410
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 3: this other place. And so we're gonna meet him at

1411
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 3: a scene where he is interrogating and busting an arsonist

1412
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 3: and fraudster played by oh, I forget the actor's name now,

1413
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 3: but the guy who was also in Prince of Darkness,

1414
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 3: Peter Jason. Peter Jason, that's right. Yeah. So he's playing

1415
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 3: the fraudster here and and it's a great grilling where

1416
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 3: he's you know, sort of breadcrumbs him along to you know,

1417
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 3: to kind of get in over his head, commit to

1418
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 3: too much, and then he like shows him these pictures.

1419
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,799
Speaker 3: He's like, look, we know that, you know, you actually

1420
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 3: saved all these goods that you said perished in the

1421
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 3: fire that you're trying to get cash for, you know. So,

1422
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 3: so he busts this sleazy guy working for Bernie Casey here.

1423
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:58,480
Speaker 3: Of course, generally, let's see thinking about ways to describe

1424
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,719
Speaker 3: the character of John Trent as he's first presented. He's

1425
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 3: very smooth, like he's a sharp dressing, good looking guy.

1426
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 3: He's well spoken. He's wearing I think what was, you know,

1427
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 3: very cool looking outfit at the time, which was a

1428
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:17,440
Speaker 3: double breasted suit with like a striped shirt on underneath,

1429
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, that man, people don't dress that way anymore.

1430
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 2: This suit looks a little dated by today's standards. Most

1431
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 2: of the film, though, he's going to be wearing like

1432
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 2: jeans and a jacket and in that like like, I

1433
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 2: don't know that that feels less stuck in the nineties.

1434
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, his suit here is very nineties.

1435
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 3: Double breasted suit. Yeah. But so he's a lot like

1436
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 3: a noir detective like you were talking about earlier. He

1437
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 3: has a grim sense of humor. He's funny, he's smart, methodical, skeptical,

1438
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,919
Speaker 3: and cynical. He doesn't come off as an especially good

1439
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 3: nor an especially bad person. He seems kind of morally

1440
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: somewhat neutral, kind of down the middle, but has a

1441
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 3: low view of human nature, low in trust.

1442
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'd say there's a little bit of cockiness there,

1443
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,719
Speaker 2: like not so much that it's like hateable or feels

1444
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: like a real, real, full fledged flaw in his character.

1445
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 2: But you know, he's a guy who feels like he's

1446
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 2: got it all figured out and he's not afraid to

1447
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 2: say so.

1448
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 3: Now, from here, we go to a scene that is

1449
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 3: very memorable. I think a lot of people if they

1450
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 3: remember one thing from the movie, it might be this scene,

1451
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 3: which is the axe attack scene in the diner. So

1452
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 3: Trent and Robbie are there in the diner and they're

1453
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 3: discussing you know what comes up next. We're sort of

1454
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 3: getting the pitch on the setup for the main plot,

1455
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 3: I believe in this where he's being told about the

1456
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 3: publishing house and the author who's disappeared. But the whole

1457
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 3: time our main subjects are talking. In the background behind them,

1458
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 3: we can see out the window across the street from

1459
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 3: this diner where a man, a disheveled, kind of strange

1460
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 3: adult looking man, comes out of a door way holding

1461
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 3: an axe in a long coat and walks slowly across

1462
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 3: the street, approaches the window and then smashes the window

1463
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 3: with an axe and attacks attacks John Trent AND's like,

1464
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 3: what's this about? I think? What is it? He says

1465
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 3: to him in the scene.

1466
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 2: Do you remember he says a couple of things, like

1467
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 2: he asks, I believe he asked if you read Cetter Kane.

1468
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 2: That is a frequent refrain from people who have seemed

1469
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 2: to have come under the power of these books. They

1470
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 2: want to know if you read Cetter Kane. And then

1471
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 2: he says something else that we hear echoed by other characters.

1472
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 2: He says, he sees you, which is which is? Which

1473
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 2: is great and creepy and kind of brings the idea

1474
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 2: of like some sort of a divine presence into the scenario.

1475
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,600
Speaker 2: He sees you, and we get a close up on

1476
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:51,560
Speaker 2: his eyes and his pupils are undergoing something like mitosis.

1477
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,440
Speaker 2: They appear to be in the process of like splitting

1478
01:17:54,520 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 2: into two pupils, which is tremendous. This would, I'm yes thing.

1479
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 2: This may have partially inspired some of the iconography that

1480
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 2: was used by Tool in their album that Would come

1481
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 2: out in just a couple of years. But also, as

1482
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 2: we've discussed in the show before, this may also refer

1483
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,440
Speaker 2: back to, at least visually to some elements in mythology

1484
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 2: with individuals that had more than one pupil in their eye.

1485
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not fully two, Like, it's just they're

1486
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 3: starting to split. You can see. It's like going into two.

1487
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 2: Like body horror mythos body horror. Stage one seems to

1488
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 2: be taking place, and it's just enough where you're like,

1489
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 2: that's not right, that's not right at all.

1490
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 3: It's funny. Yeah, the difference between just there being a

1491
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 3: monster and body horror, Like, if you're closer to the

1492
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 3: monster side of things, it doesn't really read as body

1493
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 3: horror anymore. It's just a monster now. Stage one transformation

1494
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 3: from human into something else is the body horror zone.

1495
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, full fledged Brundlefly is not nearly as disturbed

1496
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:01,919
Speaker 2: as the phases we have between.

1497
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 3: So after this we meet a couple of characters. John

1498
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 3: Trent goes and takes the meeting with Jack Harglow, the

1499
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:13,560
Speaker 3: publisher at Arcane Press, and also meets with Linda Styles,

1500
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 3: the editor who has been working with Sutter Kane. Does

1501
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 3: John Trent express any interest in these books. Not really,

1502
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 3: He's kind of dismissive of them. He's like, yeah, who

1503
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 3: reads this garbage? And that seems to be the publisher's

1504
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 3: attitude too, except he makes a lot of money on it.

1505
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 3: But yeah, So he gets the pitch that Sutter Kane,

1506
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,560
Speaker 3: the author has disappeared and has stopped sending new chapters

1507
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 3: of his books. So they're going to need to have

1508
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 3: this draft very soon. They don't have it, and they

1509
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 3: are trying to enlist Trent to help them find their

1510
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 3: missing author, and I guess the implication is that also

1511
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 3: if they can't find him, they're going to file an

1512
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 3: insurance claim, so you know, like double incentive for Trent

1513
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 3: for multiple parties to find this guy.

1514
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's very suspicious, like, especially in the early

1515
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 2: stages here, that they may be trying to play him.

1516
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 2: He's being brought in not to investigate a legitimate insurance situation,

1517
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 2: that instead is being brought in to sort of prop

1518
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 2: up some sort of grand publicity stunt that is all

1519
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:18,799
Speaker 2: about promoting this new book.

1520
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 3: He's afraid that he has fear of being a sucker,

1521
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 3: which is a real type of fear, a common fear

1522
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 3: people have, but like he it's especially acute in Trent

1523
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 3: as a personality trade. He doesn't want to be the dupe,

1524
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 3: so he's always trying to play defense against being duped

1525
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 3: by somebody, and in this case he especially fears that

1526
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,400
Speaker 3: they are trying to pull one over on him and

1527
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 3: make him sort of the media figure who will vouch

1528
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 3: for this scenario they have set up where the author disappeared,

1529
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 3: when in fact they're just going to reveal him later, like, oh,

1530
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 3: here he is and here's the book. So yeah, he's

1531
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 3: got those those skepticisms, but he does take the job.

1532
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 3: And oh and he learns. He learns along the way

1533
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 3: that the last person who spoke to sutter Kane before

1534
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 3: he disappeared was his agent. His agent was the man

1535
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 3: who attacked him in the diner with the acts. So

1536
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 3: this is the guy who's read more of sutter Kane's

1537
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 3: new book than anybody else has.

1538
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we get a nice research portion, investigation portion

1539
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 2: of the film here where Trent is. He picks up

1540
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: a bunch of the sutter Kane books. He's going to

1541
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 2: read them, like, you know, it's not his thing that

1542
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 2: he's he's a thorough researcher, so he's going to take

1543
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 2: these home rusome coffee or whatever and just read them all.

1544
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 2: And as this is going on, we also get these

1545
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 2: scenes where the editing is is really really nice here

1546
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:50,919
Speaker 2: where we create this sort of dreamlike feel like already

1547
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 2: just by being in close proximity to these books, the

1548
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 2: lines between horror and reality are are blending and merging, like,

1549
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 2: not in like over fantasy ways, but in like dream

1550
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 2: like ways, like the scene where Trent's walking home and

1551
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 2: he cuts through an alley and he sees a cop

1552
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 2: beaten down a guy in the alley way and the

1553
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 2: cop says, you want some too, buddy, and he's no

1554
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 2: thinking he keeps going. But then later we revisit that

1555
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 2: scene and it has demonic monstrous elements to it, and then.

1556
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 3: Ups faces it is now all scarred and reddened, and.

1557
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we get like a complete culmination of

1558
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:33,719
Speaker 2: this nightmare sequence that ends in a double wake jump scare,

1559
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 2: which nobody does is better than John Carpenter, and he

1560
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,639
Speaker 2: does it twice in this picture. But you can't complain

1561
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 2: because it's so perfectly executed.

1562
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, very bold move, but it works very well, and

1563
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 3: so you're not expecting a wake up jump scare right

1564
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 3: after you've just had one.

1565
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it works so well here because the double

1566
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 2: wake jump scare is about the dream within a dream,

1567
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 2: and of course that just folds so nicely into these

1568
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 2: contemplations of warping reality.

1569
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:08,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. So eventually he comes across a clue and there

1570
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 3: are some I don't know, I like a lot of

1571
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 3: the stuff the mood setting in this part of the movie,

1572
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 3: like the scene where he did you already mention? I

1573
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 3: think the scene in the bookstore where he runs into

1574
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 3: a sutter cane fan and the can that's when the

1575
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 3: guy says he sees you yeah, yeah, yeah. And so

1576
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 3: he's just encountering bizarre, sinister phenomena associated with these books.

1577
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 3: The books are affecting him negatively. He even talks about

1578
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 3: how he was dismissive at first, but he gets on

1579
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 3: the phone with somebody and he's like, I don't know,

1580
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 3: you know, all this horror is trash. But you know,

1581
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 3: Caine's a he's an okay writer. He's got a good

1582
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 3: way of writing about it. So, like the books are,

1583
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 3: he's kind of getting interested in them, but he's also

1584
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 3: being sort of sort of rattled by them, and I

1585
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,839
Speaker 3: think the books are what's in a way, it's implied

1586
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 3: causing all of these nightmare and everything, though you also

1587
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 3: can't quite be sure if maybe that's just something happening

1588
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 3: independently in the world as well. So anyway, he does

1589
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:13,680
Speaker 3: eventually find a clue, and that clue is embedded in

1590
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 3: the covers of the books themselves. I love this part,

1591
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 3: and so of course we should have said this earlier.

1592
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 3: If we didn't, our discussion of the plot is going

1593
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 3: to have a lot of spoilers in it. You know,

1594
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:25,560
Speaker 3: we're going to talk through the plot. So if you

1595
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 3: want to go out and watch the movie without any

1596
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 3: fun surprises spoiled, you should definitely do that. But anyway,

1597
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 3: so we'll go on that. He starts to notice that

1598
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 3: on the covers of Sutter Kane's books there are these

1599
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 3: red lines that look just like a random design, you know,

1600
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,879
Speaker 3: in between the monsters and people screaming and the haunted houses,

1601
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 3: there's just a red line making a shape. And he

1602
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 3: gets the idea to cut out these shapes, and he

1603
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 3: finds that when you put all these red line shapes

1604
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,799
Speaker 3: from the different book covers together, it makes an outline

1605
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 3: of the state of New Hampshire, Haunted New Hampshire. And

1606
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 3: of course this is a map that also shows the

1607
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 3: location of a place called hobbs End. This is a

1608
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 3: town in New Hampshire from the most recent previously published

1609
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 3: book by Sutter Kane, The hobbs End Horror. And also

1610
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,759
Speaker 3: it is where they decide that sutter Kane probably is hiding,

1611
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 3: like he's sending a message about himself.

1612
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 2: This is also a reference to quator Mass in the Pit,

1613
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,640
Speaker 2: which we talked about on the show, the hobbs End

1614
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 2: being the tube station of note.

1615
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't make that connection.

1616
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a number of like little references to Lovecraft,

1617
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 2: like you know Pickman, Missus Pickman. But this is a

1618
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 2: particular reference to to Quitness in the Pit.

1619
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:49,880
Speaker 3: So together Styles and Trent make the journey out to

1620
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,639
Speaker 3: hobbs End. Now they have trouble finding it because it's

1621
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 3: apparently not on any maps. I don't know how plausible

1622
01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 3: that was in the early nineties, that there's a town

1623
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 3: in New Hampshire that nobody has put on a map.

1624
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: But they're like, so they're not like it's not showing

1625
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 2: up on ways, you know, you just wear there. They're

1626
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 2: just trust is it's not on the maps, but it's there.

1627
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, they drive around looking for it

1628
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 3: and there there's more spooky stuff that happens here. There's

1629
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 3: also some comedy just as these characters kind of play

1630
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,679
Speaker 3: off of one another. They're they're they're kind of needling

1631
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 3: each other in a way. Uh, but there is like

1632
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:32,960
Speaker 3: they have differing perspectives. Styles very much has the perspective

1633
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 3: that reality is constructed, that it's you know, constructed by

1634
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 3: social consensus. And she talks about different ways that reality.

1635
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 3: You know, if everybody says reality is one thing, how

1636
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 3: can you say it's not that way? And Trent is

1637
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:49,719
Speaker 3: very no, no, no, reality is objective. It's fact based.

1638
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 3: You can't make something real just by saying it. So

1639
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 3: they clash over this and eventually they start encountering weird

1640
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 3: phenomena the road. They're like, there is a young boy

1641
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: who rides past on a bicycle that's got a baseball

1642
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 3: card tape to the wheel spokes or tape to the

1643
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 3: what do you call it, you know, against the wheel spokes,

1644
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,280
Speaker 3: so it rattles as it goes by. So they like

1645
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 3: see the boy passing one way as a boy, and

1646
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 3: then they see an old man passing the other way

1647
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 3: on the exact same bicycles. So they're in some kind

1648
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 3: of weird time warp, it seems. Also there are you know,

1649
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 3: they have visions on the road. At one point, as

1650
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 3: Styles is driving, she has a kind of nightmare that

1651
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 3: the car is like flying through the air over a

1652
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 3: great pit, and then realizes suddenly as she's kind of

1653
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 3: coming awake, that the car is going through an old

1654
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 3: covered wooden bridge. I love that set piece. A totally

1655
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 3: quaint reality, but it fits in the in the you know,

1656
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,719
Speaker 3: Haunted New England scene, they kind of love craft world

1657
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 3: that they're going for. So they come through a covered

1658
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 3: wooden bridge into hobbs End. They found the place, and

1659
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 3: so they settle in and start looking for Settercane within

1660
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:03,360
Speaker 3: hobbs End, encountering weird stuff here too, like weird crowds

1661
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,680
Speaker 3: of children running around seemingly chasing a dog and then

1662
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 3: disappearing when you turn to look for them. The main

1663
01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 3: street of the town is basically abandoned. They go to

1664
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 3: the bed and breakfast in town and they realize. Styles

1665
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 3: notices this first, and Trent is doubtful about it, but

1666
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 3: she notices that the town and the bed and breakfast

1667
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 3: here are from a sutterkne novel. They're from The Hobs

1668
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 3: and Horror. They're exactly how they're described in the book,

1669
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 3: and based on having read the book and worked closely

1670
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:37,799
Speaker 3: with it, she can predict all these things about the environment.

1671
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 3: There should be a painting here, yes, there is. There

1672
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 3: should be a loose floorboard here, yes, that's right. So

1673
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 3: she starts to be really freaked out, like she thinks

1674
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 3: that somehow they have entered the world of the book,

1675
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 3: and Trent again, he's like coldly rejecting this. He's like, no,

1676
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 3: that's not possible, that's not rational, that doesn't make any sense.

1677
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 3: I was thinking about the other option, which they don't

1678
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 3: seem to entertain very much, which is just what if

1679
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 3: this place were real? But he wrote about he like

1680
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 3: literally made all the details part of the book.

1681
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't really explore that. Like the solution that

1682
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 2: Trent he kind of touched on this already once he

1683
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 2: figured out the map thing. But he begins to continue

1684
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:22,639
Speaker 2: to focus on this idea that this must all be

1685
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 2: an act, that this is like the sort of Willy

1686
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 2: Wonka prize for solving the puzzle of the different paperback

1687
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 2: covers and that this is essentially like an immersive experience

1688
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 2: that the publishers have put together for fans of the book.

1689
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 2: And he's like, oh, you know, this is really well done.

1690
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 2: These must be actors, and he's going to cling to

1691
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,639
Speaker 2: that as much as possible, while at the same time,

1692
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really rather clever. We've been talking in

1693
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 2: recent episodes. In the last episode anyway, we'd have cinema

1694
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:54,240
Speaker 2: about Full Car, and we have some definite Full Car

1695
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:56,920
Speaker 2: elements to this portion of the picture because he is

1696
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 2: they are both, but especially Trent is the skeptical out

1697
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 2: of town or from the big city who is now

1698
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 2: in the country, you know, in this strange place with

1699
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 2: strange ways, with various things that are seem ritualistic.

1700
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: And tied to bothing old Yeah.

1701
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 2: Something old belief systems that you know, he's not familiar with.

1702
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 2: And so yeah, there's some definite Full Car vibes here,

1703
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,360
Speaker 2: but with with ultimately a different objective in place.

1704
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very perceptive. I didn't think about that, but

1705
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:32,920
Speaker 3: you're right, yeah, there, and full Car vibes really come

1706
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 3: through when they get to the church. So Styles predicts

1707
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 3: based on the book, she's like, you know, out the window,

1708
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 3: if this is the if this is the hobs End

1709
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 3: from the book, there should be a Byzantine church with minarets,

1710
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 3: you know, out the window here. And at first Trent

1711
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:50,640
Speaker 3: tries to say, like, now, look, we can prove this

1712
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 3: is not the book because it's not out the window.

1713
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 3: But he's looking out the wrong window. So she looks

1714
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 3: out the other window and like, yep, there it is.

1715
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:00,040
Speaker 3: And then they have a bizarre experience where they go

1716
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:04,720
Speaker 3: to the church and while there, so again it's this

1717
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 3: Byzantine sort of Eastern style Orthodox church. It has this

1718
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,640
Speaker 3: mosaic of Christ, and it has a weird warning on

1719
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 3: the door. It's I don't remember the exact phrasing, but

1720
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 3: it's sort of a band and all hope you who

1721
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 3: enter here.

1722
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: Yes, it doesn't like any who enter here are you know,

1723
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,680
Speaker 2: damned forever. You know, it's just pretty pretty firm in

1724
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:24,520
Speaker 2: its proclamation.

1725
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 3: And we get a bunch of townsfolk with pitchforks. I mean,

1726
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 3: I guess they're actually just armed with guns. You know,

1727
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 3: it's a pitchfork mob, but they've got shotguns who come

1728
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,760
Speaker 3: up in trucks and they confront the church and they're

1729
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 3: saying Cain give him back. So they are under the

1730
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 3: impression that sutter Kane has stolen and I think somehow

1731
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 3: like satanically mutated their children, and they are chased away

1732
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 3: from the scene by evil Doberman's that seems to be

1733
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 3: maybe a kind of nod to the Omen.

1734
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 2: And sutter Kane appears briefly at the front door.

1735
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 3: Yes he does. Yeah, yeah.

1736
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, this is a real church. Is

1737
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,320
Speaker 2: the Cathedral of the Transfiguration in Markham, Ontario. I have

1738
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 2: never been, but I know for a fact that we

1739
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 2: have at least one listener, probably more than one listener

1740
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,759
Speaker 2: out there, who have visited this church and toured it.

1741
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping to get a site report, a field

1742
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 2: report that we can share in a future episode of

1743
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:20,719
Speaker 2: Listener Mail.

1744
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 3: Please contact that stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1745
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, basically, there's just a lot of really fun

1746
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 2: explorations and keeping they keep uncovering, like new hideous things

1747
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 2: about Hobbes in like the grotesque secrets of Missus Pickman

1748
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 2: and how she's as in keeping with one of the

1749
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,719
Speaker 2: stories that's in one of the Suturcane stories, she has

1750
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 2: like imprisoned her husband and has chopped him up and

1751
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,920
Speaker 2: and is herself mutating into some sort of a monster,

1752
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 2: you know, little things like that. We have Simon the

1753
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 2: old man, warning about the horrible things that have happened

1754
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,839
Speaker 2: to the children, and you know, one gets the idea

1755
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 2: that there's almost like there's so many more stories here.

1756
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: It reminds me a bit of the recent Widow's Bay series.

1757
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 2: You know, we have like a haunted locale and they

1758
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:19,879
Speaker 2: are all sorts of like terrible stories and monstrous stories

1759
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 2: that are taking place there.

1760
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 3: Well, so this is sort of the middle part of

1761
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 3: the movie where Styles briefly kind of becomes the protagonist.

1762
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 3: She kind of takes over because she starts to think

1763
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 3: that not only is this place a place that was

1764
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 3: maybe written into existence from a previous Sutterkane book, she

1765
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 3: also believes that the events now happening to them, the

1766
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 3: events happening to her and to Trent, are the events

1767
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 3: of the books sutter Caane is writing now. She says,

1768
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 3: she believes that he is writing their lives as they happen,

1769
01:33:57,240 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 3: so like they've now sort of lost their free will

1770
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 3: and have come to exist within a sutter Kane narrative.

1771
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 3: She goes to confront him by going to the church,

1772
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 3: and she finally we get like lines from Sutter Kane.

1773
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 3: She meets him and I think he talks that he

1774
01:34:13,160 --> 01:34:15,640
Speaker 3: has this monologue where he talks about how, you know,

1775
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 3: he used to think that the stories he wrote were

1776
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:20,439
Speaker 3: just things he made up in his head, but he

1777
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:26,679
Speaker 3: came to realize over time that he wasn't making it up. Same, Yeah,

1778
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 3: something was giving the stories to him. He's been almost

1779
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 3: kind of channeling it. And we get reference to they

1780
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,879
Speaker 3: where we get the wet door. There's this like wooden,

1781
01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:41,120
Speaker 3: juicy door that is groaning under strain, is just like

1782
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 3: this big wooden door barely holding back some kind of

1783
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 3: interdimensional horror that is very, very full of fluids and

1784
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 3: never wants to stop pushing. And you just get the

1785
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 3: feeling that Caine's going to lose his resolve at some

1786
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,320
Speaker 3: point and he's going to have to open that door.

1787
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that, and it's going to unleash something horrible

1788
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 2: on the world, something that the book is preparing us

1789
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:08,440
Speaker 2: for and will sort of pave the way for its madness.

1790
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:13,519
Speaker 3: And in this sequence, styles reads the manuscript. He's got

1791
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 3: the completed manuscript here or I don't know, if it's

1792
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 3: fully completed. He's been working more on it, more than

1793
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 3: she's seen so far. And she begins to read it,

1794
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 3: and it seems this process like drives her insane and

1795
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 3: begins to transform her into one of them. Yeah.

1796
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, be causes their eyes to bleed. So there's like

1797
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 2: a stigmatic effect from having read the book. But yet

1798
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 2: now she has crossed.

1799
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 3: Over, so we have a reconfrontation between her and Trent,

1800
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 3: and Trent is just getting increasingly freaked out. He tries

1801
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:47,759
Speaker 3: to leave town, and this leads into a long sequence

1802
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:50,160
Speaker 3: where he's like trying to get out and keeps getting

1803
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:52,320
Speaker 3: pulled back in. Just when I thought I was out,

1804
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:56,559
Speaker 3: you pulled me back in. He tries to drive away

1805
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 3: from the town, but he keeps like the road turns

1806
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 3: into the road in the middle of town and is

1807
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:05,160
Speaker 3: like repeatedly confronted by the same angry mob of villagers.

1808
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 2: Something we might think of now as the schmeigadoon. So

1809
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 2: he kind of smiga dooon's here? Where are you driving out?

1810
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:10,640
Speaker 2: And then suddenly you're driving right back in?

1811
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the way out. As you said, there are

1812
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 3: a bunch of good monster encounters, Like missus Pickman is

1813
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 3: turning into a monster. Styles herself is turning into a monster.

1814
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 3: There's a great part where she goes in the bathroom

1815
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 3: in the hotel room, and then we just see all

1816
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 3: these wormlike tentacles like wiggling out under the door.

1817
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:31,799
Speaker 2: God, the sound design is excellent in this movie. Anytime

1818
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 2: we have some sort of a body hoar thing happening

1819
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 2: and we generally can't see it, or we just see

1820
01:36:36,360 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 2: a little of it, we get this weird like sort

1821
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:42,880
Speaker 2: of like flesh ripping and reforming sound, like a flesh

1822
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 2: morphing sound effect. And I'm not sure what they did

1823
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 2: to create it, but it's just so good, just so good.

1824
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 3: So eventually Trent, while he's trying to escape, he crashes

1825
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,919
Speaker 3: his car and he loses consciousness and I love this transition. Crashes,

1826
01:36:56,960 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 3: the car wakes up in a confect both so good.

1827
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's supposed to dawn on you

1828
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:06,720
Speaker 3: immediately what that is. Maybe he's just like in a

1829
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 3: tiny wooden room, but you can see the mesh at

1830
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 3: the window in the old wood. It's an unrepentant center's nightmare.

1831
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 3: And I really like it.

1832
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, most people have seen enough movies to

1833
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 2: I think to recognize it. But even even if you're

1834
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,840
Speaker 2: not thinking about it on that level, it's like, now

1835
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:26,680
Speaker 2: he's in this tomblike enclosure, you know, the narrowing of

1836
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 2: observable reality. And they shoot it. At first, they shoot

1837
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 2: it from the top for like maximum effect, you.

1838
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, looking down very good. So at first Trent panics,

1839
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,040
Speaker 3: but the booth is locked. He can't get out, so

1840
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 3: he eventually settles down, tries to light a cigarette, and

1841
01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 3: then there's this very simple effect, but I love it,

1842
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 3: a flash of light from the other side of the booth.

1843
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,040
Speaker 3: It comes through the mesh. And then sutter Kane begins

1844
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 3: to speak. So this is the first real confrontation, the

1845
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:56,759
Speaker 3: first real conversation between Trent and sutter Kane. Suttercane first

1846
01:37:57,120 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 3: starts talking about the deficiencies of earth religion. He is like,

1847
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 3: you know, religion, it's not so great because they try

1848
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 3: to discipline you by making you afraid. But religion it's

1849
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 3: not actually very good at making you afraid, because you've

1850
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 3: got to understand creation in order to induce fear. And

1851
01:38:16,600 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 3: he says, no one's ever believed it enough to make

1852
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,719
Speaker 3: it real. The same cannot be said of my work.

1853
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 3: So he's got healthy self confidence. The thing I'm writing

1854
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 3: now better than any Earth religions, Trent says. He scoffs,

1855
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,600
Speaker 3: and he says, your books aren't real. Cain says, but

1856
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 3: I've sold over a billion copies. I've been translated into

1857
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 3: eighteen languages. More people believe in my work than believe

1858
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:46,000
Speaker 3: in the Bible. And Trent argues, Trent is again, he's

1859
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:50,559
Speaker 3: just resisting the unreality. He says, you know, Cain cannot

1860
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 3: possibly be writing fantasy into reality. There has to be

1861
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 3: some kind of rational explanation for everything he's experienced. And

1862
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 3: then also Trent finally just shouts through the confession window,

1863
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 3: your books suck, and.

1864
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:08,040
Speaker 2: Cain angry flash of light in response to.

1865
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 3: That, yeah, angry flash of light. That's all right, And

1866
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:13,600
Speaker 3: Cain says, you must try reading my new one. The

1867
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 3: others have had quite an effect, but this one will

1868
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 3: drive you absolutely mad. It will make the world ready

1869
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:23,799
Speaker 3: for the change. It takes its power from new readers,

1870
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 3: new believers. That's the point belief. When people begin to

1871
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:32,240
Speaker 3: lose the ability to know the difference between fantasy and reality,

1872
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 3: the old ones can begin their journey back. The more

1873
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:40,760
Speaker 3: people who believe the faster the journey. So that's ultimately

1874
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 3: kind of the premise, and that's the thing that we

1875
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 3: found a little bit unsettling upon revisiting. It's a story

1876
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:51,679
Speaker 3: about a magical, supernatural doom of humanity that is brought

1877
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 3: on by failures of people's reality testing mechanisms. And I

1878
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,599
Speaker 3: think also the explanation here is a little bit rattling.

1879
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:06,480
Speaker 3: The idea is that the mechanism that makes people's reality

1880
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 3: testing fail is sufficiently compelling entertainment. Yeah, also relevant to today.

1881
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 3: I think different kinds of entertainment involved. I might say that, actually,

1882
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 3: we've discovered entertainment media, entertainment technology that are much more

1883
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:30,439
Speaker 3: threatening than any individual story or narrative could be. But anyway, yeah,

1884
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 3: so at this part of the movie, Sutter Kane, well,

1885
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 3: first of all, he kind of slams Trent's face through

1886
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:37,839
Speaker 3: the wall, like he gives him a bunch of visions

1887
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 3: and blood dripping against gravity and snaggle tooth demon children

1888
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 3: and that kind of thing. And then suddenly we are

1889
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:47,240
Speaker 3: teleported to Kane's office in the church with these apparently

1890
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 3: blood stained walls all around and a writing desk with

1891
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 3: a mechanical typewriter in the middle, and I did think, man,

1892
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 3: it's I'm glad that they went with a mechanical typewriter here,

1893
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 3: because can you imagine if he had a laptop up

1894
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 3: Charlton Eston's boxy laptop that we see in his office.

1895
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he needs to be typing on like a

1896
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 2: steel machine like this thing.

1897
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. So Cain hits the carriage return and he

1898
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:14,479
Speaker 3: turns the wheel. He pulls out a page from the typewriter.

1899
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 3: Apparently this is the last page of the book. In

1900
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:20,840
Speaker 3: the Mouth of Madness is now finished, and Cain ties

1901
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:23,040
Speaker 3: up the manuscript in a folder. He hands it to

1902
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,960
Speaker 3: Trent and he tells him now it is his job

1903
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:29,120
Speaker 3: to deliver it to the world, and he says, with

1904
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 3: some whimsy, I'll be joining my new publishers now. And

1905
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:35,880
Speaker 3: then suddenly Styles is in the room there as well,

1906
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:41,479
Speaker 3: and we hear this wet, creaking, clattering sound. Great sound design,

1907
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:45,680
Speaker 3: kind of like rain falling on wood. But then we realize, oh,

1908
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 3: maybe it's not rain. Maybe it's that slimy door to

1909
01:41:48,479 --> 01:41:52,559
Speaker 3: the Eldritch Hall, groaning under stress. And then Cain goes

1910
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:56,280
Speaker 3: to the door and Trent is confused. He doesn't quite

1911
01:41:56,320 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 3: know what's happening, and Cain again reiterated that he's like,

1912
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 3: it's not you that's real. It's me that's real, and

1913
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:07,719
Speaker 3: I'm writing you and trying. Of course, he's still protesting

1914
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 3: the entire time. He says, nobody pulls my strings. At

1915
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:13,240
Speaker 3: a different part, he says, I'm not a piece of fiction,

1916
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 3: and then Kane says, I think therefore you are.

1917
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:18,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, of course. He says it in a

1918
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:22,080
Speaker 2: way where it's like I think therefore you are, which,

1919
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:23,720
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sure that was one of those things

1920
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:26,320
Speaker 2: where they tried it different different ways and they're like, Okay,

1921
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 2: this is the best read, but yeah, I keep turning

1922
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 2: around in my head trying to sort of figure out

1923
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 2: why it works better like this.

1924
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:37,880
Speaker 3: A lot of good prognow deliveries in here. We also

1925
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:40,000
Speaker 3: learned in the sequence, by the way that the reason

1926
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 3: the so I just assumed the agent was one of them,

1927
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:45,680
Speaker 3: one of the servants of the you know, the beings

1928
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 3: that have been feeding these stories to Cain. But actually

1929
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 3: Kine says that his agent tried to stop John Trent.

1930
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 3: His agent got the book first, or got a draft

1931
01:42:57,000 --> 01:42:59,680
Speaker 3: of the book first, before it was finished. Knew that

1932
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 3: John Trent was going to become the deliverer of this

1933
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 3: manuscript to broader humanity and tried to stop it by

1934
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:11,439
Speaker 3: killing him first. And you know, and again Trent like

1935
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 3: doesn't buy any of this. But finally he kind of

1936
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 3: taunts Trendy. He says, read it. See what I have

1937
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:19,639
Speaker 3: in store for you. And here's the parting of the ways.

1938
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 3: So Trent and Styles stand at the end of this

1939
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:27,599
Speaker 3: vast dark hallway with these rippled obsidian walls. The hallway's

1940
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 3: got like wind billowing through it.

1941
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 2: Kind of a black mirrored surface on the floor.

1942
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And this this hallway is supposed to be

1943
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 3: the way back to reality. While sutter Kane goes to

1944
01:43:38,200 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 3: the opposite end of the room. He's going to stand

1945
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,600
Speaker 3: by the wet door, the juicy door. He says, I

1946
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:45,400
Speaker 3: can't hold them back any longer. And then he reaches

1947
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 3: up and tears away half of his face. But that's

1948
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 3: not what it sounds like, because instead of peeling away

1949
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 3: skin and revealing blood underneath, he tears away as paper.

1950
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 3: His flesh is the page of a book, revealing only

1951
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 3: a black void beneath.

1952
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:06,439
Speaker 2: And I believe this is a digital effect, And what

1953
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:09,599
Speaker 2: is otherwise a film that has mostly like really great

1954
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 2: practical effects, but this is not one of the at

1955
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 2: least is by my judgment. For my money, this is

1956
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,719
Speaker 2: not one of those early digital effects that looks really

1957
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:21,800
Speaker 2: wonky by today's perspective like it is.

1958
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 3: It doesn't look like Mortal Kombat the movie.

1959
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:27,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems very conservative in execution. It knows exactly

1960
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,920
Speaker 2: what it's it can do and what they're trying to do,

1961
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 2: and so I think it holds up.

1962
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,400
Speaker 3: I would say it doesn't feel like digital imagery. It

1963
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 3: feels like digital stitching together of conventional imagery. Yeah, but anyway,

1964
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 3: I don't know. I was mixed on what I thought

1965
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,920
Speaker 3: about this. I don't want to criticize it because overall

1966
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 3: I liked the movie so much and I was like

1967
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:51,320
Speaker 3: grooving with this moment. I don't know, I feel like

1968
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 3: it maybe it could have looked a little bit better,

1969
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:58,200
Speaker 3: but I don't know anyway. So Styles at this point

1970
01:44:58,200 --> 01:45:02,679
Speaker 3: starts reading from the manuscript and like they're like poking there.

1971
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 3: Trent pokes his head into the ripped hole where where

1972
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:11,040
Speaker 3: Jurgen proc Now was And that's right, he's got to

1973
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,960
Speaker 3: see the holes in his not his hands, but the

1974
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:16,800
Speaker 3: holes in his pages, and so he leans his head

1975
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:21,120
Speaker 3: in and Styles reads from the manuscript of the book

1976
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:24,559
Speaker 3: called in the Mouth of Madness, where it describes Trent

1977
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:28,040
Speaker 3: looking down into the void and seeing the abominations that

1978
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 3: are shrieking and coming out, coming for their world. And

1979
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:35,280
Speaker 3: so Trent starts to run away. He begs Styles to

1980
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 3: come with him, but she says she can't. She's read

1981
01:45:38,120 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 3: to the end and so she is doomed. She can't go.

1982
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:44,479
Speaker 3: So Trent runs down the dark hall he's pursued by

1983
01:45:44,479 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 3: creatures coming out of the rip in the page, these

1984
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:49,120
Speaker 3: very lovecraft inspired beings.

1985
01:45:49,280 --> 01:45:53,040
Speaker 2: So oh, and these are amazing, like the practical effects

1986
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:56,160
Speaker 2: they clearly like. You don't see much of them. You

1987
01:45:56,240 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 2: see glimpses of them either, you know, quick flashes from

1988
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:03,880
Speaker 2: far away, some glimpses up close. But they're very they're

1989
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 2: very conservative in what they show you. But they also

1990
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 2: clearly made some just amazing like myth Thos monsters to

1991
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 2: roll down this hallway, and this all is just so

1992
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,600
Speaker 2: tightly edited together. It's just a perfect sequence.

1993
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 3: I like it because it does the It does the

1994
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 3: love crafty and kind of monster the right way, which

1995
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 3: is it doesn't let you see the whole thing. You

1996
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 3: get these like glimpses of pieces of them, suggesting a

1997
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,439
Speaker 3: kind of piranha octopus elephant.

1998
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:37,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, like big almost goat legs, stomping down. Yeah.

1999
01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:39,240
Speaker 2: They just show you little pieces of it, and it's

2000
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:41,080
Speaker 2: it's amazing. At least you have to stitch it all

2001
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:46,560
Speaker 2: together in your mind.

2002
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:55,160
Speaker 3: Then, just as the creatures descend on Trent, Trent wakes

2003
01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:59,360
Speaker 3: up elsewhere. He is at a crossroads in the daytime.

2004
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:01,880
Speaker 3: He meets a kid on a bike. There was a

2005
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:04,160
Speaker 3: sinister kid on a bike earlier, but now this just

2006
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:06,680
Speaker 3: seems like a normal kid. The kid gives them directions

2007
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,479
Speaker 3: to the highway. He asks him ever here of hobbs End,

2008
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:13,160
Speaker 3: and the kid shakes his head. Now, so Trent hitchhikes

2009
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 3: back to civilization. He briefly stays at a motel where

2010
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:19,240
Speaker 3: he watches part of Robot Monster on TV Nice one

2011
01:47:19,439 --> 01:47:24,080
Speaker 3: John Carpenter. He is obviously disturbed at this point. He

2012
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 3: keeps checking himself out in the mirror. Something seems like

2013
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:30,400
Speaker 3: he's afraid he might be losing his mind. He tries

2014
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:33,960
Speaker 3: to initially dump the manuscript he's been given on the road.

2015
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 3: When he first wakes up, but at the motel he

2016
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:39,080
Speaker 3: receives a package in the mail. It's another copy of

2017
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 3: In the Mouth of Madness, and he burns this manuscript

2018
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:46,320
Speaker 3: page by page in the bathroom sink. He takes a

2019
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 3: bus back to New York and sits next to a

2020
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 3: lady who wants to tell him about how bad things

2021
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 3: were back in her day. But then the lady this

2022
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:56,880
Speaker 3: was an LOL moment for me. She transforms into Sutter Cane.

2023
01:47:56,920 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 3: After Trent wakes up from a nap.

2024
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and this is where we're can to get

2025
01:48:00,360 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 2: a second double wake jump scare, and it's still great.

2026
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, still good. The first wake up it's Cutter Kane

2027
01:48:07,400 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 3: and he's like, I'm not going anywhere. I'm God, Now

2028
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:13,439
Speaker 3: you understand. Then we get another wake up and Trent

2029
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:16,599
Speaker 3: seems to be suffering from some light madness now on

2030
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,120
Speaker 3: the bus that the multiple dream jump scares. And then

2031
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:23,200
Speaker 3: later we see him yelling at people in some kind

2032
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:27,439
Speaker 3: of government office because they refuse to acknowledge that a

2033
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 3: town called hobbs End exists anywhere in New Hampshire. We

2034
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:34,759
Speaker 3: also have a scene where he meets with Harglow, Sutter

2035
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 3: Kane's publisher. Hardlow does not seem to believe Trent's story

2036
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:42,400
Speaker 3: and in fact denies ever having known anyone named Linda Styles.

2037
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:45,120
Speaker 3: He says that he sent Trent to look for Cain alone,

2038
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 3: and then Trent realizes, oh no, Cain wrote her out.

2039
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 3: She never existed, and Hearglow's like, you know, some readers

2040
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:58,640
Speaker 3: of Sutter Kaine's work have become affected. He's kind of,

2041
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:02,240
Speaker 3: you know, imply like you might want to check yourself

2042
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:06,479
Speaker 3: before any wrecking happens. And oh, and this is the

2043
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 3: scene where it becomes clear that Harglow, despite being the

2044
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:13,120
Speaker 3: publisher of this popular fiction, that never reads it himself.

2045
01:49:13,160 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 3: He's like, no, no, no, I don't have the stomach for it.

2046
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:19,040
Speaker 3: So oh, also we find out here that Trent believes

2047
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:21,600
Speaker 3: he has destroyed all the manuscripts, but a Harglows like,

2048
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:24,080
Speaker 3: oh no, no, not at all. You delivered the manuscript

2049
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 3: to me a few months ago. Personally, it's already published.

2050
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 3: It's in stores now. Yeah.

2051
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then there's a movie in the work, so

2052
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 2: you also sometimes oid, oh yeah, the movie comes out

2053
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:35,040
Speaker 2: like in a couple of months. And this is something

2054
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:37,840
Speaker 2: if anyone out there you know this says, now is

2055
01:49:37,880 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 2: the time to capitalize and create a sequel to in

2056
01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:45,680
Speaker 2: the Mouth of Madness. I think probably not a good

2057
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:48,879
Speaker 2: idea in general, But if you were to go with something,

2058
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,559
Speaker 2: what about the idea of the people within this fiction

2059
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:57,200
Speaker 2: who have to adapt a reality warping book into a

2060
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:00,000
Speaker 2: motion picture that will warp the minds of people who

2061
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,920
Speaker 2: don't read or haven't read the book. Yeah, I don't know.

2062
01:50:03,960 --> 01:50:05,520
Speaker 2: I think there might be something there.

2063
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:08,040
Speaker 3: I wonder. Yeah, that's a good point, because the whole

2064
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 3: thing is everybody who reads it kind of goes mad

2065
01:50:10,400 --> 01:50:12,040
Speaker 3: and starts mutating into a monster.

2066
01:50:12,479 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think if work, though, you have plenty

2067
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 2: of cases where individual actors don't know the full picture

2068
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 2: of what they're making. They just know their own lines,

2069
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 2: they know their own scenes. I don't know, there might

2070
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,360
Speaker 2: be something interesting to create there with. You know, there's

2071
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:29,000
Speaker 2: a lot of interesting commentary to be had regarding like

2072
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,560
Speaker 2: the whole filmmaking engine and industry.

2073
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 3: We get a news report somewhere around here that the

2074
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:39,040
Speaker 3: two top stories are number one, lead story Sutter Kane's

2075
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 3: latest novel still sits atop the bestseller list, and then

2076
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 3: number two the second second story. Police are unable to

2077
01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 3: explain the wave of violent crimes committed by the clergy.

2078
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:55,960
Speaker 3: So Trent, now driven totally mad, shows up outside of

2079
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:59,560
Speaker 3: a bookstore with a fire axe and attacks a Suttercane

2080
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 3: fan who was already bleeding from the eyes by the way,

2081
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 3: just presumably from exposure to the book. And here we

2082
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:08,920
Speaker 3: cut back finally to the framing narrative. This is the

2083
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 3: lead up to Sam Neil being put in the padded

2084
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:16,960
Speaker 3: room covered with crosses. David Warner, so remember him, He's

2085
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:20,799
Speaker 3: the one interacting with Trent. He seems to not deny

2086
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:23,760
Speaker 3: Trent's suggestion that things are getting bad out there, so

2087
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 3: the chaos is spreading with each person who reads the book,

2088
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 3: and Warner says, what about the people who don't read?

2089
01:51:30,720 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 3: And then Trent smiles and reminds him, but there's a

2090
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:35,880
Speaker 3: movie now, you know. It's just I think it's just

2091
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:39,000
Speaker 3: time for it to come out. The opening just happened,

2092
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 3: and Trent is in no hurry to leave the hospital.

2093
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:45,000
Speaker 3: He says it's safer in here now, and he gives

2094
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:48,360
Speaker 3: this monologue where he says he says every species can

2095
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:51,680
Speaker 3: smell its own extinction. The last one's left won't have

2096
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:54,439
Speaker 3: a pretty time of it, And in ten years, maybe less,

2097
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 3: the human race will just be a bedtime story for

2098
01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:00,320
Speaker 3: their children, a myth, nothing more.

2099
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:02,639
Speaker 2: So really good, really creepy.

2100
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:05,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about the world being taken over by these

2101
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:08,639
Speaker 3: other beings. They're not just here to get us, They're

2102
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:11,160
Speaker 3: here also to I think, you know, they're going to

2103
01:52:11,200 --> 01:52:13,200
Speaker 3: be sleeping in our beds when we're gone.

2104
01:52:13,400 --> 01:52:15,600
Speaker 2: A little bit of a little few shades of I

2105
01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:18,160
Speaker 2: am legend there to some of the flavoring there too.

2106
01:52:18,479 --> 01:52:19,320
Speaker 2: We become the myth.

2107
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And then also there's this exchange between Warner

2108
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:27,759
Speaker 3: and Glover where which one asks the oh yeah, Glover

2109
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 3: asks him, do you read Setter Kane?

2110
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he doesn't answer. He keeps walking, and we

2111
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:35,800
Speaker 2: don't see what what what happens between the two of them,

2112
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 2: But we're left to imagine, like I don't know, and

2113
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:41,840
Speaker 2: we we don't know. Maybe Warner's character doctor Wren does

2114
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:45,320
Speaker 2: make it out and I don't know, I mean, nothing

2115
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:48,839
Speaker 2: good is going to happen outside. But also it's possible

2116
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:51,640
Speaker 2: that Sapristine ends up killing Wren as well, like that

2117
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:53,639
Speaker 2: could be the next beat that we just don't see.

2118
01:52:53,960 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 3: David Warner becomes the Omega Man of the Uh in

2119
01:52:57,520 --> 01:53:01,960
Speaker 3: the mouth of Madness universe. Yeah, he's got a calm pound. Anyway,

2120
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:05,760
Speaker 3: we're finally coming to the conclusion. So later that night,

2121
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:10,080
Speaker 3: there's thunder and lightning, screams and darkness in the hospital.

2122
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:14,280
Speaker 3: Something very bad is going on outside Trent's room, and

2123
01:53:14,560 --> 01:53:16,960
Speaker 3: they seem to be people seem to be turning into monsters,

2124
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 3: you know, general squealing and tentacles whipping, And finally the

2125
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 3: door is ripped open with these giant claw marks in

2126
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:26,679
Speaker 3: the middle, and Trent wanders out in his scrubs covered

2127
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:30,479
Speaker 3: in crosses. The hallway is deserted, there's sparks shooting from

2128
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:33,280
Speaker 3: the wires and blood smeared on the walls. There's a

2129
01:53:33,400 --> 01:53:38,200
Speaker 3: radio broadcast describing mass random homicide, mass mutation of people

2130
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:42,080
Speaker 3: into strange forms, and Trent wanders out of the hospital

2131
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:45,759
Speaker 3: onto the green lawn beyond. The streets are basically empty.

2132
01:53:45,800 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 3: You can kind of just see people mulling about in

2133
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:49,840
Speaker 3: the distance and what they're doing.

2134
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't see monsters, for say, like you really

2135
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 2: get the sense that it's almost like the change cuttercanes.

2136
01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 2: Change has washed over the world. But it's like a

2137
01:53:58,439 --> 01:54:02,120
Speaker 2: like a like an electromagne pulse. It's just brought madness

2138
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:05,479
Speaker 2: in its wake and wiped everything out, and it's just

2139
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:07,720
Speaker 2: left this kind of apocalyptic wasteland.

2140
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:08,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2141
01:54:08,439 --> 01:54:11,280
Speaker 3: And then the final image of the movie, John Trent,

2142
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,760
Speaker 3: in his scrubs covered in the crosses, wanders up to

2143
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 3: the cinema. He ends up going into a movie theater

2144
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 3: where we see on the marquee outside that they are

2145
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:24,360
Speaker 3: playing in the Mouth of Madness, and he's on the poster, yep,

2146
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:28,599
Speaker 3: and he wanders in slowly. He gets popcorn somebody who's

2147
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:31,040
Speaker 3: still serving popcorn there. I guess maybe he scooped it himself.

2148
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always some popcorn left in one of those machines.

2149
01:54:34,680 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 2: Kicky gets there.

2150
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 3: He's got the theater entirely to himself now and the

2151
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:41,680
Speaker 3: movie's playing, and it's the beginning of this movie. It's

2152
01:54:41,720 --> 01:54:45,200
Speaker 3: the beginning of John Carpenter's in the Mouth of Madness.

2153
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:48,160
Speaker 3: He's watching himself in the opening scene of the movie

2154
01:54:48,200 --> 01:54:51,640
Speaker 3: that you are now watching, and as he relives the story,

2155
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 3: he starts to laugh louder and louder, mad laughter alone

2156
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 3: in the theater, and that takes us to the end.

2157
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:02,320
Speaker 3: I think it's a brilliant ending image. And uh, in

2158
01:55:02,360 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 3: a way, I kind of felt like, wow, that's that's us.

2159
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 3: That's like, yeah, what we do that's where John Trent

2160
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:11,480
Speaker 3: in the theater there. Yeah.

2161
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's a fabulous ending to the picture in

2162
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:18,200
Speaker 2: so many ways, like it's the ultimate culmination of this

2163
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:20,960
Speaker 2: of this doom. Uh. We see the you know in

2164
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:24,600
Speaker 2: the in a fitting horror literature way, like the the

2165
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:29,280
Speaker 2: ultimate descent into madness, cackling madness at the end. Uh

2166
01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 2: and and and of course Sam Neil delivers it so

2167
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 2: perfectly where it's like the mad the mad laugh is

2168
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:38,720
Speaker 2: almost becoming anguish or is becoming anguish, uh and is

2169
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:42,960
Speaker 2: becoming unhinged. So it's you know, tremendous performance. And then

2170
01:55:42,800 --> 01:55:46,040
Speaker 2: the music is beginning to to rev back up again

2171
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 2: and uh yeah, and then we close out the film.

2172
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, just fabulous ending. And I will say it

2173
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:54,720
Speaker 2: makes me think of the it's kind of like the

2174
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:57,120
Speaker 2: opposite of the of the no Cole kidman a mc

2175
01:55:57,320 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 2: lady uh in trope that you know, where she's talking

2176
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:01,800
Speaker 2: about how good heartbreak feels in a place like this.

2177
01:56:01,960 --> 01:56:06,080
Speaker 3: Movies can inspire us, Movies can make us transform into

2178
01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 3: beings with tentacles unknown.

2179
01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:09,160
Speaker 2: There you go, there you go.

2180
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 3: So hats off too. In the Mouth of Madness brilliant.

2181
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:20,000
Speaker 3: Loved it excellent, even better the second time than when

2182
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 3: I last saw it. And Sam Neil, what a great show.

2183
01:56:24,280 --> 01:56:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely great performance. Absolutely all right. Well, we're going

2184
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:30,880
Speaker 2: to go and close this one out, but I'd love

2185
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,720
Speaker 2: to hear from anyone out there who has strong feelings

2186
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:35,560
Speaker 2: about In the Mouth of Madness or any of the

2187
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,720
Speaker 2: topics we've discussed here. I'm particularly interested to hear from

2188
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 2: anyone who actually saw this in the theater. You know,

2189
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:44,880
Speaker 2: it's long been my I'm sure I've had the opportunity

2190
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 2: over the years and haven't capitalized on it. But part

2191
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:49,720
Speaker 2: of me has always wanted to see it in the

2192
01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:53,040
Speaker 2: theater because of this final scene. Wouldn't that be magical?

2193
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:55,080
Speaker 2: And maybe it would be maybe it would be a disappointment.

2194
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:56,600
Speaker 2: You kind of have to see it by yourself in

2195
01:56:56,640 --> 01:56:58,800
Speaker 2: the theater get the maximum effect, and that's kind of

2196
01:56:58,800 --> 01:56:59,840
Speaker 2: pricey to pull off.

2197
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:02,600
Speaker 3: I would hope the audience would play along and I'll

2198
01:57:02,680 --> 01:57:04,680
Speaker 3: go into maniacal laughter with him.

2199
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but especially since this didn't do that well

2200
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 2: in theaters, it's possible there's someone out there who saw

2201
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 2: this in a theater by themselves, and that was what

2202
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 2: an experience that would have been so right in. We

2203
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,920
Speaker 2: would love to hear from you. Let's see, just a

2204
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 2: reminder to everyone out there that Stuff to Blow your

2205
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:26,240
Speaker 2: Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, with core

2206
01:57:26,280 --> 01:57:29,000
Speaker 2: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursday, short form on Wednesday and

2207
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:31,360
Speaker 2: on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns, so just

2208
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:33,840
Speaker 2: talk about a weird film here on Weird House Cinema.

2209
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:37,000
Speaker 2: We're always open to suggestions for future episodes, and if

2210
01:57:37,000 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 2: you go to a letterbox dot com you can pull

2211
01:57:39,240 --> 01:57:41,040
Speaker 2: up a list of all the movies we've covered over

2212
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:43,040
Speaker 2: the years, and sometimes the peak ahead of what's coming

2213
01:57:43,040 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 2: out next. The card is always subject to change, of course,

2214
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:49,040
Speaker 2: but generally you can get a good idea of what

2215
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:52,920
Speaker 2: we're going to do next. And let's see what else

2216
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:55,000
Speaker 2: can we tell you. We've been doing this show for years.

2217
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:57,520
Speaker 2: We've been doing Weird House Cinema for years. You can

2218
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:02,640
Speaker 2: find past episodes wherever you get audio podcasts, and if

2219
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:05,840
Speaker 2: you are a Netflix viewer, you can actually watch us

2220
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:09,320
Speaker 2: a little bit there, because we do the more recent

2221
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:12,040
Speaker 2: episodes have a video component on Netflix. Wherever you get

2222
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:15,240
Speaker 2: the show rate, review, subscribe if you're on Netflix, give

2223
01:58:15,320 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 2: us a couple of thumbs up, and ask to be

2224
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:18,680
Speaker 2: reminded about new episodes.

2225
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:22,880
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

2226
01:58:23,160 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

2227
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:27,160
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

2228
01:58:27,160 --> 01:58:29,120
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

2229
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:32,000
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

2230
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:39,840
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

2231
01:58:39,960 --> 01:58:42,920
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

2232
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:45,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

2233
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:49,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.