1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. For earlier access to these episodes, access 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: to Ask Me Anything sessions, and extended breakdowns of historical 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: and current events, please consider joining our Warning Premium community 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: by clicking the link in the description to this episode. 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Tim Alberta, a journalist with The Atlantic Magazine, has written 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: one of the most astonishing, illuminating, and revealing portraits of 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: a media executive of the modern era. The portrait is 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: of CEO Chris Licht, the leader of CNN. Two things 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: are immediately clear about Chris Lickt and CNN from this profile, 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: and it's this CNN has been wrecked. It was wrecked 11 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: by the Trump era. It was wrecked by Jeffrey Lord 12 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: and Corey Lewandowski and the partnership that Jeff Zucker for 13 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump in a national reality show. And it 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: was wrecked by the Warner Discovery merger. There is a 15 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: crisis at CNN, as there is a crisis across the 16 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: broad spectrum of American journalism. It is a crisis that 17 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: is equal to the political crisis, to the business leadership crisis, 18 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: and to the institutional crisis across America that has hollowed 19 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: out and disintegrated the bonds of trust between the American 20 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: people and the vital institutions that we rely on that 21 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: are necessary for the sustainment of the government of the people, 22 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: by the people, for the people. The very first thing 23 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: that jumps out reading the Atlantic Magazine profile is the 24 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: magnitude of the ethical crisis that has arisen from corporate 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: interference at CNN. That much is perfectly clear. Chris Lickt 26 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: is dilli bombarded by David Zasloff, who is trying to 27 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: interfere editorially with the operations of a news organization. Now, 28 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: any network president has only one standard, and that is 29 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: to protect the editorial integrity of the mission of the 30 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: organization and the journalists who are fighting to expose the truth, 31 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: truth against power to afflict the comfortable in the name 32 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: of the public interest. That is what journalism is. And 33 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: Chris Lickt doesn't understand that. His first job is to 34 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: tell David Zasloft no. What Tim Elberta's profile shows is 35 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: that Chris Licht is lost, utterly, completely, hopelessly lost. He 36 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: is in over his head as much as any person 37 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: has ever been. It's really extraordinary. Here is somebody who 38 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: had a successful career as a television producer, playing an 39 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: integral role in the early days of Morning Joe and 40 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: working for Stephen Colbert. The decision to make him the 41 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: global CEO of one of the largest news organizations and 42 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: most important in the world is an astonishing decision, and 43 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: clearly Chris Lick hasn't measured up because he doesn't understand 44 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: many many things that are essential for the CEO of 45 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: a global news organization to understand. One, he doesn't understand 46 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: the journalistic ethic or the purpose of journalism. Two, he 47 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: doesn't understand leadership. Three, he doesn't understand the nature of 48 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And he doesn't understand how you fight back 49 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: against a bully. One of the most astonishing passages in 50 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: Alberta's profile is when Chris Lick says, the way you 51 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: confront a bully is by informing them, presenting them with 52 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: the facts. I suppose, dialoguing with them. What a naive view. 53 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: The first rule of bullies is very simple, and it's this, 54 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: when encountering one, and when they get in your face, 55 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: you knock them on their ass, full stop. Period. You 56 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: don't try to have a debate with them. One of 57 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: the things that Chris Lick has lost about was expressed 58 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: before the Trump town hall. This notion that it's his 59 00:04:54,800 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: job to make news, to manufacture it as opposed to report. 60 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: This is essential to understand because that viewpoint is absolutely, 61 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: utterly and completely antithetical to the vision that Ted Turner, 62 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: the Global visionary, had when he launched the network. When 63 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: he did what he said was the Star was the news. 64 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: We live in the most complex moment in all of 65 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: human history. The Star remains the news. We live in 66 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: an era of tumil. I spent many years advising companies 67 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: on crisis Trust me when I tell you this, This 68 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: is the golden age of crisis management for crisis management professionals. Everywhere, 69 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: someone somewhere in any big organization you would care to 70 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: look at, is doing right now something they ought not 71 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: to be doing. And it's the job of journalism to 72 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: go out find out about it and report back to 73 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: the American people so the public, the citizen, can make 74 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: informed decisions about what's happening in their democratic society. This 75 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: is the nature of journalism. It's not playing a role 76 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: coequal like divided government with checks and balances in a 77 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: reality show produced by a wanna be dictator like Donald Trump. 78 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: What is the most important news story in this moment. 79 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: What is it? What will affect our future ten years 80 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: from now, twenty years from now, thirty years from now. 81 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 1: It's this. And if you're the CEO of a news 82 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: organization and you don't understand it, then you're in the 83 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: wrong business. This country faces as grave a threat as 84 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: it is ever faced, and the threat is an internal one. 85 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: One of America's greatest institutions, the Republican Party, the third 86 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: oldest political party in the world, has been completely consumed 87 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: by an autocratic, fascistic faction. That faction is led by 88 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, an American president twice impeached, who shattered his oath. 89 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: The defining story of this moment of time is this. 90 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: He lost an election, and nobody looked him in the 91 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: eye and said, mister President, you lost. Joe Biden got 92 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: more votes than you did, by many millions, and he 93 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: secured the requisite number of electoral votes to win. The conspiracies, 94 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: the lie, the fantastic allegations, the delusions, all of it 95 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: built and built and built until it exploded on January sixth. 96 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: On January sixth, the President of the United States incited 97 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: an insurrection, a murderous rebellion against every single one of us. 98 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: They tried to tear down American democracy. They tried to 99 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: hang the Vice president of the United States, and they 100 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: succeeded in interrupting and bloodying the peaceful transition of power, 101 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: which had gone on uninterrupted as one of the great 102 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: miracles in the modern history of the world since seventeen 103 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: ninety seven. That is, until Donald Trump and his disordered personality, 104 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: his incandescent narcissism, his wickedness, incited everyday Americans to betray 105 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: their country. What is it that Chris Lick thinks is 106 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: a bigger story than that an attempt by the President 107 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: of the United States to tear down American democracy. The 108 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: judgment he has made is not a news judgment. It 109 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: is a commercial judgment, and it is a decision that 110 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: reeks of appeasement and dishonesty. Make no mistake about that. 111 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: It's one of the most dishonest positions a news executive 112 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: has ever held. They insist that the people who tried 113 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: to burn down American democracy on January sixth, the politicians 114 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: who incited the lies, who incited the violence, be covered 115 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: with balance. What does that mean? What exactly is it 116 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: that Chris Lick said to Republicans when he went to 117 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: the Hill, what did he say to appease them? Here's 118 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: another thing he doesn't understand about journalism. If Republican members 119 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: of Congress and mass refused to answer questions of the media, 120 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: and specifically of a network like CNN about sedition, about 121 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: the ability to tell the truth about anything, then that 122 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: is the story, and the American people deserve to know why. 123 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: John Kennedy, when he delivered his last substance of address 124 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: at Amherst College, talked directly, clearly, and honestly. He said, 125 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: the challenges of that era were staggering, and they are 126 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: staggering in this era because of the collapse of trust, 127 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: the collapse of trust between the American people in so 128 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: many essential institutions, in politics, in media, and in business. 129 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: And what the Alberta story shows is when it comes 130 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: to CNN, they have well earned utterly the collapse of 131 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: trust of the American people. Fundamentally, CNN has a Captain 132 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: Quig problem. Do you know who Captain Quig is? He's 133 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: this guy. Chris Lick is isolated, alone, walled off. He 134 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: sits apparently in isolation, on the twenty second floor and 135 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: he's followed everywhere by his pr spinman. The journalists don't 136 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: trust them. There's a story in the profile about a 137 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: Christmas dinner. They said that Chris Lick walked around the table, 138 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: he shook everybody's hands, and then he sat down staring 139 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: at his phone reading a Puck News story that was 140 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: critical of his leadership. There's another incident that's relayed where 141 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: Chris Lick is looking down at his phone making comments 142 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: about another story about him. And there were more incidents, 143 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: more anecdotes of Chris Lick raging at Dylan Buyer's of 144 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: Puck News, where Chris Lick litigating with reporters his reputation. 145 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: This person is the president and CEO of a global 146 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: news network at a time of existential crisis. Of course, 147 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: somebody with those aspects of character is going to be 148 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: unable to tell David's assloff no when David's asoff tries 149 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: to interfere editorially with no transparency in the operations of 150 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: an organization that proclaims itself as the most trusted name news. 151 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: Chris Lick said promised that he would not have keep 152 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: on the airwaves of CNN that told the American people 153 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: that it was raining on a sunny day. But that's 154 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: exactly what he did. He did it by putting extremist 155 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: House members and election deniers on the air. He did 156 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: it by putting Donald Trump into a town hall format, 157 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: broadcasting it globally around the world, where Trump got to 158 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: interact with some of his most dedicated and admiring siicophans. 159 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: It was appalling, appalling judgment, an appalling application of the 160 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: journalistic ethic. There are astoundingly good, professional, brave, dedicated journalists 161 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: as CNN, but they have been trampled upon in this 162 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: era of business profit, commercialism and the Trump industrial complex, 163 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: and they've been trampled on by their executives who will 164 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: not let them do their jobs, which is the pursuit 165 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: of truth. Now, the simple fact is this, Chris Lick 166 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: has lost any ability to lead CNN and he won't 167 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: be in that position for very much longer. He's failed. 168 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: He's failed because he didn't grasp the nature of this moment. 169 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: The story of a lifetime is the story of the 170 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: threat that is gathering, that is building, that is menacing 171 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: American democracy, dealing with it directly, clearly, without fantasy, without illusions, 172 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: without subordinating the truth to the whim of a billionaire 173 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: like John Malone or an executive like David's asshost. The 174 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: issue at hand is reality, not show business. Chris Licht 175 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: came from show business and that's what he's given the 176 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: American people. But he's in the news business, a business 177 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: he clearly doesn't understand if he can't say no to 178 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: a Discovery Warner executive who tries to editorially influence the 179 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: direction of the network and what should and should not 180 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: be covered, he doesn't understand it. If he thinks it's 181 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: the job of journalist to make news, not report it. 182 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: He doesn't understand it. If he thinks that the town 183 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: hall that CNN threw wasn't an abomination and was instead 184 00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: a public good, he doesn't understand it. If he believe 185 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: that CNN is trusted again because there's balance, because Republicans 186 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: are on the air. There are a few occasions where 187 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: you will ever read a story that shows a person 188 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: more completely, profoundly and utterly out of their depths leading 189 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: a vital institution. But let's be clear, the crisis at 190 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: CNN is not exclusive to CNN. The crisis in American 191 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: journalism is everywhere. The way to make billions, apparently is 192 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: by lying, and lying and lying some more. Some of 193 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: this country's most prolific liars can now be found on 194 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: most any station that pretends to cover the news. You 195 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: can find them on CNN, you can certainly find them 196 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: on Fox, you can find them on News Nation, and 197 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: you can certainly find them on Newsmax. The American people 198 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: deserve the truth. That's what CNN used to be. It 199 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: brought the world into the American people's homes and it 200 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: could be trusted. But when you read the Tim Alberta profile, 201 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: it's not just about the failing of one executive lessons 202 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: in leadership catastrophe that he offers. It's a story about 203 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: a collapse of the journalistic ethic and trust and why 204 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: it is that the American people can no longer tell 205 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: the difference between what is true and what is false, 206 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: between what is real and what is fantasy. When you 207 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: read this story, and I encourage you to do it, 208 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna shake your head and you'll sit there thinking, Wow, 209 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was that bad, but it is. 210 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: And there's something very, very very elemental to understand. A 211 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: democratic society cannot survive when the truth and the lie 212 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: stand equal in the public square, and that is why 213 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: Chris Licked has failed as the CEO of cn