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Speaker 1: M what's lighten my dumpster? First, I'm Robert Evans hosted

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards. That little introduction was an honor of

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Speaker 1: my hometown, Portland, which just had a police officer murder

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Speaker 1: a man who is having a mental health crisis. And

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Speaker 1: we'll probably be lighting some dumpsters on fire tonight. Um,

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Speaker 1: although you won't hear it the day that this happens.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that's all beside the point right now, because

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Speaker 1: the point right now is that I'm introducing our guest today,

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Speaker 1: the inimitable Matt Leabe. Hey, what's going on, Matt? How

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Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: A big fan of the pod. Uh love me some bastards?

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Speaker 1: And you are? You do a Sopranos podcast and the

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Speaker 1: name is it really pod yourself a gun? That's alright, gun.

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Speaker 1: That's where the world's only Sopranos podcast. Don't go looking

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Speaker 1: for any other ones, because they do not exist. Little

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Speaker 1: known TV show, the Sopranos. You might have heard of

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Speaker 1: it very obscure, a niche, a niche TV show that

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Speaker 1: only people who really like art understand. Um, And that's

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Speaker 1: that's why we talk about it. We talked about the art.

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Speaker 1: It's fun thinking about that because I believe the song

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Speaker 1: that introduced that show was something about waking up in

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Speaker 1: the morning and getting yourself a gun, which is what

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Speaker 1: I did this morning. You bought a gun. I did,

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Speaker 1: I did. I did buy a gun this morning. Um.

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Speaker 1: Not for sopranos like uses. Um, although I am Italian,

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Speaker 1: so you can't really know for sure. You can't really

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Speaker 1: know for sure. Yeah, you woke up with a blue

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Speaker 1: moon on in your eye and you decided I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go get myself a gun and then I'm gonna commit crimes.

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Speaker 1: And the pine Barons of New Jersey, Yeah, they do

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Speaker 1: that a lot in the show, right, a lot of

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Speaker 1: Pine Baron crimes. They do it at least once and

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Speaker 1: uh and it's great, yeah that they're chasing that guy

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Speaker 1: through the yeah, yeah, the Russian Yeah, and they leave

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Speaker 1: their DNA everywhere, well they everywhere, and you know they look.

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Speaker 1: We Italians are not a subtle people. Know. They spend

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Speaker 1: that whole episode literally like dying of like cold and

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Speaker 1: they're lost in the woods, but they spend all the

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Speaker 1: time talking about how they're starving because they haven't eaten

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Speaker 1: in twelve hours. The most in the world. But I

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Speaker 1: want to hear about this gun. Oh it's just a gun, um.

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Speaker 1: But today we have something much more exciting than a gun.

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Speaker 1: We have a bastard and are bastard? Are you ready

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Speaker 1: for this? I'm so excited? Are you settling in? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Oz and I never introduced them like that. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about Dr fucking Oz today. Yes, that's right. Who's

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Speaker 1: the thought he'd be a bastard a TV doctor? Who

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Speaker 1: would have thought a TV doctor could be a bad man? No,

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Speaker 1: they take an oath TV doctors. They say, do no

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Speaker 1: harm and get good ratings. That's the the hippocratic oath

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Speaker 1: do they do? They also oath to be bad guest

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Speaker 1: hosts on Jeopardy because he sucked and I didn't enjoy it. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: if you are going up against LaVar Burton for any job,

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Speaker 1: your first action should be like, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: bowing out immediately. I'm not going to compete with LaVar

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Speaker 1: Burton fighting, Jordy fighting, Kunta Quinte fighting whatever the Reading

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Speaker 1: Rainbow guys name was. Yeah, yeah, No, I did not

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Speaker 1: watch him on Jeopardy, but I have seen the show

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Speaker 1: and had no idea he was a bastard. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: he's a piece of ship. He's he's a different piece

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Speaker 1: of ship. We're also going to be talking in the

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Speaker 1: very near future about Dr Phil who's a much worse person.

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Speaker 1: Dr Oz is bad for some reasons that you'll suspect,

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Speaker 1: you know, the pseudoscience stuff, but also for some I

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Speaker 1: think more complicated reasons, which will we'll have us a

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Speaker 1: nice talk about at the end of this episode. So

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Speaker 1: I've always said that one of the great tragedies of

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Speaker 1: American public life is that our very best doctors are

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Speaker 1: usually like kind of shlubby dudes and ladies, uh maybe

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Speaker 1: aren't the best at at social graces, and certainly don't

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Speaker 1: have enough time because are wildly overworked to do TV appearances. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree. They're not hot. I've always said the problem

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Speaker 1: they're not hot. I look at them and I'm like, you, like,

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Speaker 1: we need to put a couple of billion dollars into

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Speaker 1: a national program from more funck able doctors. Come on, yes,

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Speaker 1: doctors who fuck that's the next level of healthcare in America.

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Speaker 1: It won't be universal health care, but at least doctors

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Speaker 1: will look fuckable. Now, I mean, I think the problem

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Speaker 1: is not their fun ability, because it's inherently hot to

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Speaker 1: be a doctor. It's more the fact that they're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily even the ones who are have a good bedside manner,

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Speaker 1: are good at explaining things, just don't have the time

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Speaker 1: to spend a lot of it on television because they're

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Speaker 1: busy saving lives. This has led to a thriving industry,

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Speaker 1: well documented in this show of grifter health influencers and

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Speaker 1: scam artists selling people poison with honeyed words and practice smiles. Today, though,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a different kind of medical grifter, kind

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Speaker 1: of a grifter who helps to launder those more shady grifters,

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Speaker 1: the guy people who aren't doctors, people who have no

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Speaker 1: medical training, who are just trying to sell you nonsense cures.

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Speaker 1: The guy we're talking about today exists to give them

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Speaker 1: credibility and launder them into the public consciousness. And his

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Speaker 1: name is memt Oz. Ment Oz is maybe the most

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Speaker 1: influential public physician in the country, possibly the world. He is,

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Speaker 1: in every professional sense of the word, an excellent doctor,

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Speaker 1: exceptional eason. Even within the bounds of what it is

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Speaker 1: he is trained to do, he may be one of

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Speaker 1: the best in the world at what he does um

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Speaker 1: and he uses his you know, the thing that makes

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Speaker 1: him a bassard is that he uses these exceptional qualifications

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Speaker 1: along with his charisma his handsome face to sell millions

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Speaker 1: of people on nonsense cures every single year. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's a bad thing to do. He's kind of made worst.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk with this a lot by the fact that

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Speaker 1: he is he's a he's a he's a heart surgeon,

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Speaker 1: and he's an exceptional heart surgeon. That's so sad. It's

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Speaker 1: always sad when like an amazing doctor is a piece

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Speaker 1: of ship. This is like how I felt when Ben

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Speaker 1: Ben Carson turned out to be a Trump guy, was like,

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Speaker 1: but you're so good the surgeons, which you talk to

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Speaker 1: doctors will be like yeah, of course. It's always surgeons. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: They're the ones who think they're God's right. They essentially

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Speaker 1: have a God complex and that they'll be really good

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Speaker 1: at one thing and then they'll also think that they're

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Speaker 1: good at like yes, politics and ship like that. I

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Speaker 1: think good surgeons are so prone to being also like nonsense,

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Speaker 1: like so many of our nonsense public doctors or surgeons.

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Speaker 1: For the same reason that so many of our terrorists

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Speaker 1: or engineers. They're people who get really good at a

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Speaker 1: specific thing, and it lets them convince themselves that they

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Speaker 1: know what they're talking about in a wider variety of

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Speaker 1: things than they really do. That's great, it's it just

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Speaker 1: makes me glad that I never, you know, got really

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Speaker 1: proficient in anyone's skill. Never gain skills, I never ever

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Speaker 1: learn how to do things. You'll become too smart for

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Speaker 1: yourself and think that you are God. If no one

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Speaker 1: learned to do anything, we would still be living in

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Speaker 1: the mud and eating grubs. And you know what, we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have salesman oh, or that we would have very

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Speaker 1: little at all mimits sang his Oz was born on

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Speaker 1: June eleven, nineteen sixty two, parents Suna and Mustafa Oz,

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Speaker 1: who must have fucked at some point in October of

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Speaker 1: nineteen in order to conceive him. We have to assume

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Speaker 1: his parents fucked in the October. That, yeah, he could

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Speaker 1: be immaculate conception. You know, possible, I would say right now.

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Speaker 1: The most likely theory is that they fucked sometime in October.

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Speaker 1: All his father, Mustafa had been born in Boscre, a

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Speaker 1: village in southern Turkey. He had grown up poor in

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Speaker 1: the countryside during the Great Depression. Uh. And obviously, you know,

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Speaker 1: Great Depression, bad time everywhere, real bad time. If you're

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Speaker 1: like in rural Turkey, you know, um, you're you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with a different kind of poverty than even like our

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Speaker 1: grandparents dealt with here. Um. So he had to work

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Speaker 1: himself to the bone in order to make something of himself,

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Speaker 1: in order to get into medical school and distinguish himself

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Speaker 1: enough that he was able to earn scholarships which allowed

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Speaker 1: him to immigrate to the United States as a medical

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Speaker 1: resident in nineteen fifty five. So this is a this

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Speaker 1: is a hard working man, um, and a man who

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Speaker 1: has to struggle, I'm mean to guess in ways that

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Speaker 1: that are kind of difficult to imagine for most p

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Speaker 1: even as difficult as our present times are. He's like

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Speaker 1: a true lift yourself up by your bootraps kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: came from the middle of like nowhere, rural Turkey and

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Speaker 1: worked himself into becoming a good enough doctor that he

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Speaker 1: got you know, he was able to get over the

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Speaker 1: racism of the fucking nineteen fifties immigration system. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's an achievement. Yeah, good for him. Started from

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Speaker 1: the bottom and now he's on TV. That's his dad. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's his dad. That's not yeah, yeah, that's Mustafa. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about his dad and his mom right now.

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Speaker 1: His mom, Soona, came from a much wealthier background. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this is what helped his dad get

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Speaker 1: into the country or not. It may have been. Her

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Speaker 1: father was a successful pharmacist in both sides of her

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Speaker 1: family came from Istanbul. She grew up with a lot

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Speaker 1: of money. As befits his more modest upbringing, Mustafa was

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Speaker 1: an observant traditional Muslim as soon as family was more

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Speaker 1: moderate and secular. Memit and his two sisters grew up

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Speaker 1: split between both approaches to religion. The Oz kids spent

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Speaker 1: their childhood speaking Turkish and English fluently at home, so

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Speaker 1: they grew up in a bilingual house. Mement was from

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Speaker 1: a young from a young age, ambitious, starving for success

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Speaker 1: and his father's approval. He was wont to note that

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Speaker 1: he was born in the year of the Rat according

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Speaker 1: to the Chinese zodiac. In one interview, he noted of

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Speaker 1: this quote, you run the maze. If you put cheese

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Speaker 1: in that maze, I swear to God I'll get to it,

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Speaker 1: and I'll get to it really fast. But should I

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Speaker 1: be running after that cheese? Am I in the right maze?

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Speaker 1: All of these questions, which people much greater than I

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Speaker 1: am think through I put on the back burner as

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Speaker 1: I'm running after that cheese. What the fuck? Like, that's

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Speaker 1: way too much stock into the year of what animal?

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Speaker 1: Year the rat? At least he wasn't born into the

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Speaker 1: Year of the pig. And he's like, well, you, what

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Speaker 1: you gotta do is you gotta take your snout and

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Speaker 1: put it into the trough of life and just really

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Speaker 1: got to just shut your face into food as hard

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Speaker 1: as you can. You roll around in the ship, and

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Speaker 1: then you hope that someday you find another piggy to

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Speaker 1: fun and then you have little piglets. I was born

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Speaker 1: in the Year of the Pig, and that's why I

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Speaker 1: disposed of bodies for the mob. It's just what you do. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a it's a nice take on your of the rat.

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Speaker 1: For him, it is it is telling because what he's

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Speaker 1: saying there is like, I don't think about why I'm

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Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing. I just I just strive to

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Speaker 1: to to achieve things, and I don't think about whether

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Speaker 1: or not they're good or bad. I just I have

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Speaker 1: to achieve. Yeah, he just wants that cheese. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: wants that cheese. It's ambition without an analysis, I think,

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Speaker 1: is what you'd call it. And he's pretty open about

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Speaker 1: that now. Mustafa his dad repeatedly told the growing doctor

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Speaker 1: Oz who's not yet a doctor obviously, that when he

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Speaker 1: grown up, when Mustapa had grown up, he hadn't been

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Speaker 1: able to relax for even a second on his road

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Speaker 1: to escaping poverty and establishing himself as a cardiothoracic surgeon. Um.

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Speaker 1: So he's like telling his kid as he grows up, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like if you want to succeed, you can't

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Speaker 1: relax for even a second. You can't can't take a

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Speaker 1: moment off. You always gotta be hustling. Uh. And that's

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Speaker 1: how mem It grows up. He's an excellent student, but

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Speaker 1: no amount of success is ever enough for his dad.

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Speaker 1: He later recalled, I'd say I got a ninety three

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Speaker 1: on a test, He'd say, did anyone get better? That

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Speaker 1: was always the question, he asked. Sounds like a fun

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Speaker 1: guy would hang, Yeah, the school I grew up in

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Speaker 1: because of just where we were in North Texas. Like

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Speaker 1: about half of the kids in my school, um were

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Speaker 1: either from India or from China or Japan. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so you had a lot of kids who would talk

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Speaker 1: that way about their parents, right, um. And some of

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Speaker 1: them had, especially around our senior year, there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of kids who had to get like taken in

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Speaker 1: by an ambulance because they would just like in one

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Speaker 1: case easing as a result of stress. Like Jesus good

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Speaker 1: to put this kind of pressure at a kid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like straight having like nervous breakdowns just from like trying

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Speaker 1: to get good grades. Once again, don't get good at anything.

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Speaker 1: It's not worth it that loop skills. Don't develop skills,

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Speaker 1: You'll get seizures. You're at risk of seizures. You're at

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Speaker 1: risk of your of your dad not loving you. You know,

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Speaker 1: you just gotta you no matter what. Yeah, exactly, stop

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Speaker 1: caring about your dad. You know, just toast coast some dirt,

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Speaker 1: eat some grubs. You'll be fine. Yeah, start a Sopranos podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's all you've got to do. Really really bringing it

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Speaker 1: back there. So Memitt decided to become a doctor when

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Speaker 1: he was just seven years old. Uh. He recalls standing

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Speaker 1: in line at an ice cream parlor. Quote. I remember

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Speaker 1: it like yesterday. There was a kid in front of

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Speaker 1: me who was tin My dad just to pass the time,

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Speaker 1: said what do you want to be when you grow up?

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Speaker 1: The kids said, I don't know, I'm ten. My father

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Speaker 1: waited until he was out of earshot and said, I

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Speaker 1: never want you to tell me that if I ask

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Speaker 1: you that question, I never want you to tell me

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Speaker 1: you don't know. It's okay if you change your mind,

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Speaker 1: but I never want you to not have a vision

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Speaker 1: of what you want to be. Moment, go kill that kid,

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Speaker 1: kill that kid, murder that, lose your kid, and tell

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Speaker 1: me what you want to do with your life. God damn,

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Speaker 1: that is way too much pressure. Way that's so much

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Speaker 1: pressure to put on a kid. And it seems like

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Speaker 1: the kids like that always end up becoming the like

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Speaker 1: going into the career that their father wanted them to do,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually their dad dies and then they're like,

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Speaker 1: oh fuck, I didn't get to do what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do with my life and now I'm miserable. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's a real bummer. Um. It's not just

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Speaker 1: don't put pressure on people. There's plenty of grubs. By

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Speaker 1: the time Moment was ready to start school, his father

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Speaker 1: was wealthy enough to pay to send his son to

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Speaker 1: Tower Hill School, a K through twelfth grade private college

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Speaker 1: preparatory school in Wilmington, Delaware. Jesus, that sounds horrible. I know,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a fucking nightmare. Fancy boy uniforms ties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably like during the summer. Yeah, the fancy boy prep

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Speaker 1: school worked well enough that Memitt was accepted to Harvard,

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Speaker 1: where he played football and water polo. His grades were,

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Speaker 1: as always exceptional. One of his roommates later recalled, he

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Speaker 1: was very competitive. There was never any question that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be a doctor. He wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a fantastic surgeon. So people around him, like, everyone kind

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Speaker 1: of recognizes this kid is brilliant. Everyone recognizes he's got

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Speaker 1: the drive he's going to achieve, you know, so good

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Speaker 1: for him. I mean, it's just like I just look

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Speaker 1: back now at my own childhood and I'm like, God

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Speaker 1: damn it. If I can think of one friend where

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Speaker 1: where I knew what they wanted to do for a career,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we ever talked about like, what's your

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Speaker 1: career gonna be? No one was like I'm a doctor,

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Speaker 1: you know. It was it was mostly just like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, how's how's your hip hop album working out?

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Speaker 1: And they're like good and they're like cool, and that

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Speaker 1: was the whole thing. That's interesting. I think it was

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Speaker 1: different from me because there was definitely a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure to have something. You know, I went to a

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Speaker 1: public school. Um, I didn't go to a private school,

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Speaker 1: but I went to a public school in my early

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Speaker 1: schooling years. Was in a dirt, poor farming town called Idebelle, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: And the school was as good as it could be

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Speaker 1: in a place like that, Like they paddled us and

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Speaker 1: stuff like. It was not not a high end educational

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Speaker 1: but once I'll do in a in a public school.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, damn. They still did that in Oklahoma back

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Speaker 1: in them days. Yeah you got to sign the paddle

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Speaker 1: afterwards too. But when I was in on a third

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Speaker 1: grade or so, UM, I moved to planoh which is

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Speaker 1: a a fairly wealthy suburb of Dallas, and the schools,

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Speaker 1: the public schools are very good and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of drive to achieve. Like I said, a lot of

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Speaker 1: like kids who were really motivated by their parents to

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Speaker 1: achieve um, and so you either were kind of planning

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Speaker 1: to be a doctor or you know, something on that level,

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Speaker 1: or you were planning to join the military. Because it

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Speaker 1: was Texas and I was in r OTC, So me

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Speaker 1: and all my friends, I think we all kind of

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Speaker 1: assumed we're all going to join the army, you know, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I went to yeah, public school, you know, my entire life,

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Speaker 1: and I think most of my friends either wanted to

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Speaker 1: they were either going to go into the army or

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Speaker 1: they were um or they wanted to be famous musicians

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Speaker 1: and or athletes. So I see, my brother is a

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Speaker 1: doctor and knew he was going to be a doctor

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Speaker 1: from that. He's my older brother too, from the time

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Speaker 1: that he was like seven, so like, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: la la la, no idea. I'm just saying, like a

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Speaker 1: level of ambition at a very very young age has

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Speaker 1: always been a turn off for me when it comes

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Speaker 1: to like friends, because it's just, uh, they always have

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Speaker 1: that like sense where they're trying to get there. You're

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Speaker 1: you're some sort of stepping stone into their what ever

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Speaker 1: their career path is, and I don't like it. So

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Speaker 1: Oz took only one break during his relentless progress through

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Speaker 1: medical school. Uh, and that break was to do a

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Speaker 1: compulsory I think it was a one year term of

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Speaker 1: service in the Turkish Army in order to maintain his

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Speaker 1: dual citizenship. Um. Other than that straight onto like becoming

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Speaker 1: a doctor, that's the only kind of break. He So,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's his gap year is being in the

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Speaker 1: Turkish Army. I'm just gonna take a break, have a

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Speaker 1: gap year and joined the military of a foreign country

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Speaker 1: that helps suppress you know, Kurdish liberatory movements and stuff. Whenever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they got to stop trying to have their own thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He got a four year degree in biology and then

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Speaker 1: transferred to the University of Pennsylvania, where he doubled up

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Speaker 1: working on both an m D and an m b A.

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Speaker 1: He succeeded in earning both. So that's interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: He gets both. He gets at the same time as

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Speaker 1: he's getting his m d. He also gets a business degree. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a very Uh, there's a lot of foreshadowing going. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a foreshadow He earned both obviously with flying colors.

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Speaker 1: He's an incredibly intelligent man, right, this isn't just a

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Speaker 1: guy like we'll talk about Dr Phil later. Dr Phil

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Speaker 1: I don't think is very smart. He's incredibly good at

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Speaker 1: reading and manipulating people. He's not particularly a genius. Mem

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Speaker 1: at Oz is a genius like I think almost certainly

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Speaker 1: is an actual genius. In nineteen eighty five, at age

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Speaker 1: twenty five, he married Lisa Limole, who was the daughter

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Speaker 1: of a cardiothoracic surgeon who worked with his father. They

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Speaker 1: met at like a party or something. This relationship gradually

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Speaker 1: opened him up to alternative medicine and Eastern mysticism because

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Speaker 1: Lisa's mom was hardcore into homeopathy, meditation, and other New

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Speaker 1: Age stuff. We'll talk about that more in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: For the next decade and change, Dr Oz's career zoomed forward.

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Speaker 1: He became triple board certified, which I don't know what

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Speaker 1: that means, but it sounds impressive. It's at least three boards.

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Speaker 1: It's at least three boards. That's I got zero boards

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Speaker 1: under my bottom one, not a single board between the

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Speaker 1: three of us. So we really should find a board

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Speaker 1: just to get us some certifications, guys, just to get certified.

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Speaker 1: If you're a board, if you're a medical board board

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Speaker 1: out there, well, you know what. The state of New

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Speaker 1: Jersey has certified me as a reverend doctor, so I'm

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Speaker 1: one board certify. There is there a board in the

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Speaker 1: Universal Life Church because I am a ministers last Jedi night,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that counts all right, I'm board stified.

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Speaker 1: Can you get me painkillers? But you know, I know

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Speaker 1: a guy that sounds legal enough. So he starts working

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Speaker 1: as a heart surgeon um and he's very good at

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Speaker 1: being a heart surgeon. And he's not just good at

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Speaker 1: the heart surgery part, he's good at the science part.

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Speaker 1: Over time, he authors hundreds of peer reviewed articles and

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Speaker 1: he's awarded eleven patents. One of them is for a

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Speaker 1: solution to preserve transplanted organs. Another is for an aortic

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Speaker 1: valve that can be implanted without open heart surgery. Like

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Speaker 1: he's he's not just really good at the mechanics of surgery,

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Speaker 1: he's an ex lent scientist. Yeah, Levin Pattents is pretty good. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: one might say he's the Wizard of Oz. There. I

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Speaker 1: think I read like six articles with variations of that

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Speaker 1: title on the guard. Alright, well I gotta go. Then

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Speaker 1: it's just a fig. Journalists can't fucking help themselves. Anybody

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Speaker 1: you see Oz and you're like, I got a callum

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Speaker 1: a wizard, not a call um a wizard. Dr Oz

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Speaker 1: was hired by Columbia Medical School UH as a teacher,

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Speaker 1: and as you know, he's also working. They've been a hospital.

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Speaker 1: He's working there, but he's also teaching, and he very

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Speaker 1: quickly rises to the level of full professor and becomes

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Speaker 1: the vice chair of the cardio of the heart surgery department.

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Speaker 1: Basically at this point, he's in his thirties. Oh man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like everything I've read right now on its own would

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Speaker 1: be a career trajectory. Any doctor in medicine would envy.

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Speaker 1: Like you could die happy with that being your fucking resume.

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Speaker 1: Like that's a hell of an achievement. Um. Yeah. In nine,

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Speaker 1: a New York Times profile referred to doctor Oz as quote,

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Speaker 1: probably the most accomplished thirty five year old cardiothoracic surgeon

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Speaker 1: in the country. He might be the best at what

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Speaker 1: he does in the entire United States at this point.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how to measure that, but

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Speaker 1: he's he's very good. I mean I don't know any

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Speaker 1: other heart surgeons by names, so fuck, I mean he's

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Speaker 1: the guy. Yeah. Now, the article that I found that

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Speaker 1: quote in however, gives some hints about what was to come,

404
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Speaker 1: because that article was about doctor Oz's increasing experimentation with

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Speaker 1: alternative medicine. It opens with the story of one of

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Speaker 1: his patients, a forty nine year old diabetic smoker who

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Speaker 1: suffered a critical heart attack. She went under Memets knife

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Speaker 1: for a dangerous surgery. Quote at the invitation of Oz

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Speaker 1: and his patient, there were two other people on hand

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Speaker 1: in surgical gowns and masks, a second year medical student

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Speaker 1: named Sally Smith stationed at the patient's feet, and a

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Speaker 1: fifty two year old healer named Julie Motts, who was

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Speaker 1: standing at the patient's head. As volunteers in Oz's cardiac

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Speaker 1: Complimentary Care center, they worked for free through the operation,

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00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: seldom moving except to reposition their hands as Oz requested

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Speaker 1: suitures and clamps and units of light a cane. Mots

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00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: called softly to Smith to move her hands from the

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Speaker 1: small toe of the patient's right foot to a point

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Speaker 1: on the soul known as the bubbling spring. What they

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Speaker 1: were doing, no one else in the operating room knew

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Speaker 1: how to do, or had ever seen done during a

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Speaker 1: coronary bypass, or had ever thought worth doing. Even as

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Speaker 1: an experiment in this ultimate theater of scientific medicine. The

424
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: women were using their hands as kings once did dis

425
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: treat subjects with scrupula, and as Jesus is said to

426
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: have done, and as shamans and mothers and Chinese quigong

427
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: practitioners still do. They were using their hands to run

428
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: a kind of energy which science cannot prove exists into

429
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: the patient's kidney meridian, which also may or may not exist.

430
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: The kidney meridian. Yeah, you gotta get that meridians. That's

431
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: the best part of the kid the meridian. That's the

432
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: most delicious part of the kidneys. Man with fucking on

433
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 1: a ritz cracker slice, then I love me a little

434
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: little You just want to get You want to get

435
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: like some duck fat or some butter, and you want

436
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: to get it sizzling in the pan, and you just

437
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: slap that meridian on for like a half a second

438
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: and it's good to go. That's all you fucking which

439
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: just a little bit of a little bit of char

440
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, this all feels like he's gonna

441
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: start turning his patients into far gra and very excited

442
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: for what's to come. This heel turned that he's gonna take. So, yeah,

443
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: that's that's that's silly. I I think that's silly. Um.

444
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: But out at the other hand, like it's in a hospital.

445
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: These people are clearly following sanitation guidelines. They're not getting paid,

446
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: the patient's not getting charged extra, So I don't have

447
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: a problem with that. And that's the smartest doctor in

448
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: the world. It's like one of those things where you're like,

449
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: I feel like this is wrong, but I don't know

450
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: enough to dispute it. So I'm with my kidney meridian.

451
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm not willing to morally condemn him for that, even

452
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: though I think it's silly, just because like, yeah, yeah,

453
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 1: what's the fucking harm and seeing you know, and in

454
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: that case, if you're actually doing it in a medical context,

455
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 1: you you're guaranteeing everybody's taking proper sanitation procedures, fucking whatever.

456
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: And it seems like from what I can tell, that sounded, uh,

457
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: non invasive. It's yeah, they were just doing energy work

458
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: or when they were, you know, crystals and doing fucking

459
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: pendulums over over him. It falls into the category of

460
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: it couldn't possibly hurt, so why not give it a shot, right,

461
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: which is We'll talk about this more later, but that's

462
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: kind of what they were going for. You know what

463
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: else can't hurt I don't know. The products and services

464
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: that support this podcast guaranteed to not harm you. In fact,

465
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: every one of the products of ours that you buy

466
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: extends your life by exactly forty five minutes. So you know,

467
00:24:50,960 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: spend all your money and gain immortality. We're back. We're

468
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: talking about doctor Oz, who in the mid nineties has

469
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: started some weird alternative medicine stuff. Now he's not the

470
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: person who starts the alternative medicine program at Columbia Presbyterian

471
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: Hospital UM, which is also like a teaching hospital whatever.

472
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: It's one of those hospitals that they have a medical

473
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: school with. You know how. You know the thing if

474
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: television has taught me accurately, all of the doctors are

475
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: fucking constantly m doctors fucking teach, That's what they doctors,

476
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 1: fucking they teach, that's all they do. You know, when

477
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: you're not teaching, you're fucking um. And Columbia Presbyterian was

478
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: among the most reputable medical establishments on planet, or it

479
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: still is as far as as I'm aware. UM, So

480
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: this alternate medicine program. There is kind of an odd thing.

481
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: It was not started at the behest of anyone at

482
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: the top of the school. Um. The whole thing came

483
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: about because in nine a retired utility executive named Richard

484
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: Rosenthal gave them three quarters of a million dollars as

485
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: a private grant in order to establish a center to

486
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: study alternative medicine. Just gifted money and just said magic

487
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: doct during school and they're like, okay, um. Now, Richard

488
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: had been motivated by having several close friends of his

489
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: get terribly sick um in such a way that doctors

490
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: told them there was nothing that could be done to

491
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: help them. And his response was to basically throw a

492
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: bunch of money into a hole to see if alternative

493
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: medicine could come up with solutions. And it's one of

494
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: those things I could make fun of, Like this is

495
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: almost exactly a week after my mom just died of

496
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: a type of cancer that when you get diagnosed with it, pancreatic,

497
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: there's basically nothing they can do. You know. It's even

498
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: like like she went through chemo and it did nothing.

499
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: You know, I get it. You go through something, I think, okay, well,

500
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: let's try other ship. You know. Um, so I can't

501
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: I can't even blame Richard for like it seems like

502
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: he was motivated out of grief to do this. You know,

503
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: you can't blame people for trying to try any other

504
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: alternative to I mean, you know, something in which there

505
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: is no cure and modern medicine, I might will blame

506
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: the snake oil salesman. I'm never going to blame someone

507
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: who's like, well, doctor said they can't cure me. So

508
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to eat this route. You know, why not

509
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: go for it? Who gives a ship like you can't

510
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: hurt if you're definitely gonna die? Um, And it is

511
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: to be honest, like it is kind of within even

512
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: you could argue within kind of medical best practices because

513
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: one of the things I like, I took em T

514
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: training years ago. One of the things they tell you

515
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: is that you're not supposed to use an A E. D.

516
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: You know, like paddles to restart a heart. You're supposed

517
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: to use them on an infant, But if an infant

518
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: is in you know the state where like you use

519
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: them on them because they're dead. Yeah, they're dead. You

520
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: can't make dead worse, So like, why not so I

521
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: guess like, yeah, you can't. I don't know, can't make

522
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: it worse? Why not see if, if, if something happens.

523
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: I'm not against the basic idea of testing some of

524
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: this ship is what the worst thing you're going to

525
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: get out of that is a really cool TikTok video

526
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: of electrocuting a dead body. Absolutely, and then you get

527
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: a funkload of followers and then you start selling brain pillars.

528
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: It's a perfect plan. Uh so yeah, um, so I

529
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: can't blame the college for this. I can't blame the

530
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: guy for funding it. It's a reasonable thing. Why not,

531
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: you know what? That's kind of my attitude is why

532
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: the funk not? And that's more or less with The

533
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: Dean of Faculty of Medicine at the college said like,

534
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: all right, well, we're not paying for it, why not

535
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: give it a shot? That said a lot of medical

536
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: professionals were really angry about the idea. Dr Victor Herbert,

537
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: a Columbia Medical School graduate and a professor of medicine

538
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: at Mount Sinai and a board member of the National

539
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: Council Against Health Fraud, publicly lambastad. The lecturers brought in

540
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: by the program as con artists and sociopathic liars, and

541
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: knowing the kind of people who get into the selling

542
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: this ship business. I don't know if he's wrong about that.

543
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: A lot of these people are fucking sociopaths, you know,

544
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: he says, quote, I am nasty. I call practitioners of fraud,

545
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: practitioners of fraud. It's my feeling that the Rosenthals enter

546
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: has been promoting fraudulent alternatives is genuine um and I

547
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: get his critiques, you know, that is one of the

548
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: like I can say, on one hand, what's the harm,

549
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: but also maybe the harm is that people here, this

550
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: stuff is being done in a hospital, so it must

551
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: help when it doesn't, and maybe some of those people

552
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: do that not the way Dr Oz is doing it,

553
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: where we're going to do the normal medical procedure, will

554
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: have this done. Maybe some people decide I just want

555
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: to have the energy work done, and then they dropped

556
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: out of a heart attack because it doesn't replace a valve.

557
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: You know. I'd like to think that even at a

558
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: hospital or research facility with Western medicine, that they still

559
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: peer review and try out different you know, like alternative medicines, right,

560
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, like some of them, some of them work.

561
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: Some of them work. Like there was a time when

562
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, acupuncture was seen as kind of like a

563
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: croc and now it's like kind of just a standard

564
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: part of Western medicine. It's just you know, so yeah,

565
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a lot to be said about

566
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: even acupuncture. You know, I went through a lot of

567
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: it as a kid, and it did nothing for me.

568
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: But my grandpa swore by it for his Parkinson's And

569
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: even if it was I don't know, you could say

570
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: it's like fucking uh whatever placebo, but he experienced relief.

571
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: So I don't care, like, um, I don't know. I'm

572
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: not going to get into like because I don't know.

573
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: I don't know all of the I know, it's one

574
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: of those things where there's a number of divergent opinions

575
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: on actual but a number of things that were initially

576
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: considered alternative medicines have been found to have medical you know, benefits.

577
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: Not that that's the norm, but it has happened in history,

578
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, different kind of traditional or whatever treatments. Um

579
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: So this is very controversial, though, is the point I'm making.

580
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: And a number of people even picketed the college when

581
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: the Rosenthal center opened. None of this dissuaded doctor Oz

582
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: from participating in it. His explanation as to why he

583
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: embraced alternative medicine was to be quite honest, kind of brilliant.

584
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: He said that his by this point vast experience as

585
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: a real doctor had really informed him of the limits

586
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: of medical science. Specifically, he said that while he could

587
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: so bypass grafts and even implant a new heart into

588
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: someone's chest, he couldn't change the habits that had made

589
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: them sick in the first place, nor could he cure

590
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: the emotional issues that they were dealing with. Depression, he

591
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: pointed out, was a major risk factor in heart patient

592
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: recovery post surgery, and things like meditation. Right, that's kind

593
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: of considered woo new age. That can help with depression,

594
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: and that can help with healing. And he's right about that.

595
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: Bad point to make, um so he seemed to insinuate

596
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: when he was talking to The New York Times. Why

597
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't a caring physician want to try everything possible to

598
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: improve his patients? Odds, he could point out that meditation

599
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: had shown some benefit for heart disease patients, Who was

600
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: to say that other stuff wouldn't work. Doctor Oz told

601
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: The New York Times that he felt ethically obliged to

602
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 1: experiment in new directions in medicine. The article makes it

603
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: clear that doctor Oz had not let up one bit

604
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: in the workaholic tendencies that he inherited from his father

605
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: as well. And I'm going to quote from the Times

606
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: again here, mem at Oz is one of those rare

607
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: beings who seem incapable of sloth. He's doing a heart

608
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: transplant right now, his secretary says on the phone, own,

609
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: And he's got a double lung transplant waiting, and those

610
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: are in addition to his two regularly scheduled open hearts.

611
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: And then at three he's supposed to fly to Boston

612
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: to deliver a lecture. So exceptional is oz is energy

613
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: that some of his colleagues use him as a benchmark

614
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: correlating their own vitality is a fraction of a full

615
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: mement unit. He runs down Lobbs Sizes tennis partner mentor

616
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: and department chairman Dr Eric A. Rose, who at forty four,

617
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: is one of the top hearts transplant surgeons in the world.

618
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: So I can't tell you how uh nervous I would

619
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: be going into a lung transplant procedure and then hearing

620
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: like this doctor has got to do a heart after

621
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: you and then got to fly to Boston. I'd be like,

622
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: do you think you could maybe take your time with

623
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: this bro? Like, could you get that? I I do.

624
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: It is a man. We'll talk about the Z in two.

625
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: We don't have enough of these guys. It's actually a

626
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: major health problem. How few people there are that can

627
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: do this. Um but it it is exhausting everything you

628
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: read about this guy's day, Like, you're just one of

629
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: those people who I think, I kind to get the feeling.

630
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to psychoanalyze someone, but you get the feeling.

631
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: He can't be alone and still like he he has

632
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: to always be moving towards something. He's got his dad

633
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: in the back of his head and telling him to

634
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: murder that kid in the ice cream show, yea to

635
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: kill that he just like, I mean, I imagine that

636
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: would create a bit of a problem later in life

637
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: with stillness. Yeah, I feel for him a little bit

638
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: of that sum now. The article also goes into more

639
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: to tail about how dr oz Is wives family. Dr

640
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Oz's wife's family piqued his interest in alternative medicine. His

641
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: father in law was one of the surgeons on the

642
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: first heart transplant team in Texas. He'd also been nicknamed

643
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: the rock Doc by Rolling Stone for playing music in

644
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: the o r to relax patients. His mother in law

645
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: had developed a special low fat diet for her husband's

646
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: cardiac patients, and this was really before it was accepted

647
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: that low fat diets would be good for patients. She

648
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: once refused surgery for her own inflamed gall bladder and

649
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: handled it instead by altering her diet. She taught her

650
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: son in law, Dr Oz about using arnica for store

651
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: muscles and herbal tea for stomach aches. So he gets

652
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: brought in in part by to alternative medicine, by these

653
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: people who have a real medical background and are doing

654
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: things that aren't widely accepted but also may help, you know, music.

655
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: I think there's there's some data now on how music

656
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: can help with with certain respects of the healing process.

657
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: Mother in law seemed to be on on the cutting

658
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: edge of that doc. I I got concerned. I thought

659
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: it was gonna like replace people's hearts with crystals and

660
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: ship and I was like, oh no, oh no, they

661
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: all die. But my God, their hearts are pretty So

662
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: this is how mem it gets introduced to the wide

663
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: world of quack cures, and it makes sense he enters

664
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: it through largely reasonable ways, alternative treatments that have some

665
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: positive impact on people. That's in there's extremely reasonable stuff

666
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: in the article in general, like doctor Oz points out

667
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: that in American hospitals it only recently allowed family to

668
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: stay in the hospital with a patient, while in Turkey

669
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: it was common for families to do this, and of

670
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: course having loved ones nearby can help a patient's morale,

671
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: which can influence how well they heal. No one I

672
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: think today would even like think to disagree with that.

673
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: It didn't used to be common Um it changed. So

674
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: he's he's in medicine during a time when a lot

675
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: of stuff that like just wasn't. That is kind of

676
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: now common sense medicine wasn't. And I think that kind

677
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: of opens his eye to like, well, maybe all this

678
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: other ship works. Yeah, maybe everything in my head is

679
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: correct him turning into a complete narcissist. Yeah, And the

680
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: article kind of veers right from yeah, having loved ones

681
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: in the room can can influence how well you heal

682
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: to Dr Oz's love of energy work, particularly his work

683
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: with a lady named Motts, who believed she could sense

684
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 1: the energy of heart transplant patients. The Times article certainly

685
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: does not portray this woman in a particularly positive light. Well,

686
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: she now has her surgical sea legs under her, but

687
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: the first time Mots observed open heart surgery she had

688
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: a shaky debut. She had been standing at the patient's

689
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: head outside the sterile field, periodically telling Oz what changes

690
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: she was able to sense into patient's energy. The patient

691
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: was obviously not awake, but probably had some awareness, most

692
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: likely smell and perhaps hearing. Open heart patients are often

693
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: fitted with headphones and provided with tapes to listen to,

694
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: including if they want, Oz's own specially recorded Supi trance

695
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: music for the bypass team. It was quite a novelty

696
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: to hear Mots report that she was registering the patient's

697
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: moods and her body various states of fear, anger, or satisfaction.

698
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: Perceived this roughness in her chest or turbulence in her stomach.

699
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: At one point, seeing that Mots was not looking so

700
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: good herself, Oz asked a burly assistant to take her

701
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: outside for some air. When he returned, he said, I'd

702
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: sense a change in my stomach. It's a tenseness. No,

703
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: it's a growling. No, wait a minute, I'm just hungry.

704
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I swear she's like she seemed like

705
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: she is just desc having her own feelings and then

706
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: just ascribing them to an opening. But yeah, it's it's

707
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: one of those things. I'm not sure exactly what type

708
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 1: of energy work this person is doing. Um, because there's

709
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: a few different kind of categories of it. Um checking

710
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 1: the vibes, dude, she's checking the vibes, just making sure

711
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: you know the vibe dipstick is filled with oil. I

712
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: should note, if I'm going to be totally fair, that Rieky,

713
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: which has its origins in Japan, has been shown in

714
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: some early scientific studies to help diminish the symptoms of

715
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: chemotherapy and to significantly alter people's experience of physical and

716
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: emotional pain. UM. And I have some friends who swear

717
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: by it for kind of physical and emotional pain in particular. UM.

718
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: I don't know what ricky is. I've heard of it.

719
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: Is it like when Mr Miyagi rubs his hands together

720
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: and then he puts energy work. I guess I don't know.

721
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: It's not a kind of thing that I particularly believe in,

722
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: and I kind of think in a lot of cases

723
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: it's that you have a good relationship with the practitioner

724
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: and you trust them, and it can be, you know,

725
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: in an emotionally soothing thing which I don't know. UM,

726
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: there were early studies, scientific studies that showed that it

727
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: could diminish the symptoms of chemotherapy and reduce people's experience

728
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: of pain. Now, further studies were commissioned after these early studies,

729
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: which starting in the early two thousands were more negative.

730
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: A number of hospitals did, however, add Reeky practitioners to

731
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: their stable of a vitable of available providers and parts

732
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: as a result of like the work that doctor oz

733
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: in the Center at Columbia was doing. UM, you can

734
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: find these people in hospitals now. And it's worth noting

735
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: that a number of the positive studies about riki and

736
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: other kind similar things were conducted by the National Center

737
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: for Complementary and Alternative Medicine UM. Their work is problematic,

738
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: to say the least. And I'm gonna quote now from

739
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: an analysis of several studies conducted by this organization by

740
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: professor doctor edzard Ernst. Quote three studies suggested that energy

741
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: medicine had an effect, but their authors either applied statistics

742
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: and appropriately confounded the effects of energy healing by adding

743
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: unrelated interventions to the experimental condition, or failed to design

744
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: or blind equivalent placebo controls. Their results are therefore untrustworthy.

745
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: The two studies that were well designed failed to demonstrate

746
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: effects from energy and healing. The odds of generating a

747
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: useful result of a clinical trial of energy medicine are small. Moreover,

748
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: what impact would negative studies have. Scientists will simply say

749
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: we could have told you so, and proponents are unlikely

750
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: to change their mind. Proponents may then claim that the

751
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: negative study must have been flawed, or that energy medicine

752
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: cannot be investigated by the tools of science, or they

753
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: might rely on the n c C a M. That

754
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: organization I talked about funded studies that generated biased but

755
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: apparently positive results. The n c c a M S

756
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: approach encourages a self perpetuating cycle of misinterpreting research and

757
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: conducting flawed research, which inevitably generates some studies that erroneously

758
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: claim positive effects and give the false impression that the

759
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: efficacy of energy medicine is still scientifically resolved. Man, we

760
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: are just veering into anti back's territory, and like anti

761
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: mask territory. People who just they google stuff and then

762
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: they go this article right here says that mass act

763
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: and they can't they can't analyze, and it's from a

764
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,479
Speaker 1: government science organization. You know, these guys like and here's

765
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: a study that's it, and it's like, well, okay, but

766
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: you actually look at scientists you don't have a vested

767
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: and often financial interest in this, and they point out

768
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: all these very obvious flaws in the study. It's worth

769
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 1: noting that the n c c a M was founded

770
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: in nine, three years after the New York Times article

771
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: about Dr Oz and the Alternative Medicine Center at Columbia

772
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: was published. Now. Dr Ross at this point was not

773
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: yet on Oprah Show, but he had been featured on

774
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: TV several times for his pioneering work with mechanical hearts,

775
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: as well as his embrace of alternative medicine. You can

776
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: draw a direct line. I don't know if we would

777
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: have it in c c a M without Dr Oz.

778
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. You can't say that for certain um,

779
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: but he is someone who before his embrace of alternative

780
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: medicine starts to be well known as an exceptional doctor

781
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: and scientist. He embraces this stuff. Columbia starts studying this stuff,

782
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: and even though everything they find is pretty inconclusive, um,

783
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: the fact that it's in an actual hospital lends it legitimacy.

784
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: This organization is started in order to test this stuff.

785
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: The organization is filled with people who already believe in it,

786
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: carrying out tests that are flawed. Um. And it it

787
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: helps prepare this culture believing too much in this stuff.

788
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: My god, it's just like it's a real life Facebook group,

789
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: you know. It's just like everyone already believes in all

790
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: the stuff and they just keep like just co signing

791
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: each other's bullshit. And it's one of those things like

792
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: I again, I know people who swear by Riki, who

793
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: gain you know, emotional benefits from it, um, who think

794
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: it helps with you know a number of things, um,

795
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: including like physical including emotional pain, and like if you

796
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: find something that helps you alleviate your emotional pair, more

797
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: power to you know. You're gonna hear me it, you know,

798
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: go with God. That's that. That's all great, But uh,

799
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to relieve pain, yeah, try

800
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: some morphine though, dog, because that'sh it, oh mark morphine.

801
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: There's no downsides to morphine that. I can't think of

802
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: one downside to morphine. It's not a single one. Yeah,

803
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: it just feels good the whole time, and you just

804
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: need to take more. My issue is not so much

805
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: with any particular treatment, not that not not even an

806
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: issue that people would like. It's number one. A lot

807
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: of people will issue actual medical treatment in favor of

808
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: some of this stuff, and it's not going to I'm

809
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: trying to be as fair as I can. He's not

810
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: going to solve your blocked cardiac pathways, you know, like

811
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: it's not going to fix it. Yeah, I mean energy

812
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: is great, but plavix works, Wonders is a lot better.

813
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: Um and it's it's it's more to the point, even

814
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 1: more than that, is it. It gets us on this

815
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: this road of increasingly accepting and legitimizing things that there's

816
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: no there's not a scientific basis for, and that leads

817
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: us to ship like let's drink bleach to cure the coronavirus.

818
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's where the road ends. I have

819
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: more of a problem with than doctors experimenting with an

820
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: energy worker during a surgery, like it's where that leads to,

821
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: and he plays a major role in legitimizing that. He's

822
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: he helps put he helps put our national foot on

823
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: the gas pedal into the post science age. Yeah, it's

824
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: a slippery slope to that, you know, downing that brain

825
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: octane oil. Exactly, exactly. Um so yeah. At this point,

826
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: though we're talking still in the mid nineties, everything doctor

827
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 1: Oz is saying is reasonable from a certain point of view.

828
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: He's not claiming that rinky's gonna cure cancer. He's not

829
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: even claiming it's gonna cure your heart disease. He's saying

830
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: it could help with recovery, and a lot of recovery

831
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: is mental, and he's not you know, it's possible, He's right,

832
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, he's not a bastard. It's certainly not impossible

833
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: for this kind of stuff to have a mental impact

834
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: which can positively affect recovery. Okay, um, so yeah, he's

835
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: not a bastard. At this point, nearly all of his

836
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: alternative medical claims were things that you could argue were

837
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: at least to some extent reasonable based on the way

838
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: he framed them. And he was most importantly regardless of

839
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: whatever kind of woo woo stuff. He got into an

840
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: exceptionally gifted medical perfecture professional who was performing something like

841
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: two fifty heart surgeries a year. You know, that's two

842
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: hud lives a year extended. That's that's great. He's not

843
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: a bastard yet. And yeah, he's doing great work so

844
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: far despite the heart but fine, a little bit of energy,

845
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: a little bit of heart surgery, it works out. And

846
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: the thing though, that is I think is happening during

847
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: this period. And I don't know how conscious a choice

848
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: this is by Dr Oz. I think it is because

849
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: of the fact that he gets an MBA as well,

850
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: and the fact that he's very good at getting pressed,

851
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: very good at getting on TV, at getting in the news.

852
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: I think he is at this point crafting his career

853
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: to make himself into an ideal candidate for famous TV doctor.

854
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: I think he is building a background that will allow

855
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: him to establish his celebrity career later. Um. It is

856
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: not hard to see how a handsome doctor with TV experience,

857
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: a New York Times profile talking about alternative medicine, and

858
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: a seriously impressive resume was going to wind up eventually

859
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: on Oprah. Winfrey's radar. He almost built himself perfectly for

860
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: that to happen. And he he tried in the early

861
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: two thousand's, he tried with his wife to start a

862
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: TV show. They like filmed a pilot episode. It didn't

863
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: really take off. Um, but he he succeeds and I

864
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 1: and I think he's pushing and his wife is pushing

865
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: him to to get in. She's very much his business

866
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: partner to develop himself into a media personality, and he

867
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: eventually succeeds. In two thousand four, uh in getting invited

868
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: to Oprah Winfrey's show Now Memit immediately endeared himself to

869
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: Winfrey's audience with his willingness to discuss frank health details

870
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: in a way that was demystifying and humorous. He most

871
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: famously explained that healthy poops tended to be shaped like

872
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: an S and should hit the water like an Olympic

873
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: diver with very little splash. Over herself later recalled when

874
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: he made it okay to talk about the shape of

875
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: a good poop, I knew he could talk about anything.

876
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: He always found ways to make the human body endlessly fascinating. Man.

877
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: That is uh, I mean, I'm I'm low Key impressed

878
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: that he impressed Oprah with do do Shapes. It's it's moms,

879
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: don't you know. Moms love poop, I love talking. And

880
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: that's what like Oz does exactly the right things to

881
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: endear himself to like millions of middle class moms, which

882
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: is the best markets, an incredible market. You can make

883
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: all of the money if you can get a few

884
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: million middle class moms to love you. I worked at

885
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: this this digital uh what do you call it, like

886
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: a digital production company, and the most famous person that

887
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: we dealt with was a famous Facebook mom who had

888
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: millions of followers, and I would watch her stuff and

889
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: I was like, this is, you know, maybe the most

890
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: awful ship I've ever seen. It's just a you know,

891
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: lady in a car yelling at people about kids and uh,

892
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: but the she was a famous mom. I mean, if

893
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: you can become a famous mom, you will be one

894
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: of the most famous people in the country. Yeah, I mean,

895
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: it's it's the power of of particularly middle class moms

896
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: can't be exaggerated. Like the cops and the Feds were

897
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: able to funk over as many people as they wanted

898
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: until they started gassing moms and the whole countries pists. Yeah,

899
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: they're like like, hey, listen, you can do that to

900
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: people of color, but those are moms. Those are white moms,

901
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: white moms that could be my mother. Yeah, you know

902
00:47:54,120 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: what else at the actually, you know what else? Did

903
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: your mom? That's where I thought you were going with.

904
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: You know what else is your mother? The products and

905
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: services that support this podcast. We're back. So we've so

906
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: we've all just agreed that Matt is very fine. That

907
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: was the discussion over the break. You made this one

908
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: into a two parter, Matt, So you audience can thank

909
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: you for two episodes about Dr Oz this week, or

910
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: they can blame you. And if they blame and blame him,

911
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: Matt's home address is we love to docs our guests.

912
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: So Oprah had Doctor Oz on her show fifty five

913
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: times over the course of five years. She gave him

914
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: the nickname America's Doctor, which stuck. And although I'm not

915
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: saying this in a positive sense, is unfortunately accurate. He's

916
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: definitely America's doctor, just appealing to the lowest commons denominator,

917
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: this stupidest human doctor. And if you look at the

918
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: health of the average American until the quality of job,

919
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: he's done eat bread. Well, actually that's the one thing

920
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: he is he's actually pretty good about. Like wait, well,

921
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: I don't know that's still debatable. Stop defending doctor I'm

922
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: not going to defend I just love to be fair.

923
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: You know, you know you're very fair. Look say what

924
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: you will about Hitler Will he was a vegetarian and

925
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: that's good for the environment. The man cared about animal rights.

926
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: By two thousand nine, it was clear that Doctor Oz

927
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: had more than enough star power to justify a shot

928
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: at his own show. Oprah's production company had little trouble

929
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: finding a buyer for what was sure to be a

930
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: blockbuster new series. Her show celebrated the launch of Doctor

931
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: Oz Show with an entire episode dedicated to Doctor Oz,

932
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: which acted as something of a coming out party for

933
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: his brand. From a press release on oprah dot co, um,

934
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: this is talking about the special Doctor Oz episode. Moving

935
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: personal stories and extraordinary surprises are featured throughout the hour

936
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: as doctor Oz meets viewers who share how his advice

937
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: saved their lives. From those who noticed life threatening diseases

938
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: their doctors missed to those who lost weight thanks to

939
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: his diet tips from Doctor Oz, Real people step forward

940
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: to offer their thanks to America's doctor. Plus, it's the

941
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: reunion that Dr Oz never imagined would happen, as Oprah

942
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: Show producers tracked down a young boy he cared for

943
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and the two reunite

944
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: for the first time. He's like the fucking perfect, perfect

945
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: guy for this. I mean, I love that. It's literally

946
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: sounds like an hour long special of people just thanking him,

947
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: which might be the most narcissistic thing I think I've

948
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: ever heard. Yeah, I mean, like it's one thing for

949
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: Oprah to do that, because I think America does legitimately.

950
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: Oh her, thanks for just years of content, you know,

951
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: but years of mostly danger is health based content. Oh yeah, No,

952
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's awful content. But the fact is it's

953
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: it's quantity over quality in America. And uh, you know,

954
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,959
Speaker 1: but an hour of just thanking Dr Oz and having

955
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: people come up to him like you saved me, fucking

956
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: what it's worth noting in terms of his bastardry. That

957
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: and and and kind of the acceleration from hey, maybe

958
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: energy healing works to becoming a monster. The early two

959
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: thousands of the period in which Oprah becomes aware of

960
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: a Brazilian healer named John of God who believes he

961
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: can do psychic surgery, and like, yeah, yeah, oh of

962
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: of the of the Brazilian of God's and on the

963
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: episode in which she introduces John of God to America,

964
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: Dr Oz comes on and gives his professional opinion that, like,

965
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: he seems like he's really having an effect on people,

966
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: and I can't explain it. I don't think medical excience

967
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: can explain what this man is doing. Basically giving a

968
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: real doctor's opinion that this guy has gotta be legit.

969
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: John of God later turned out to be a mass

970
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: rapist on these on a scale, hundreds of victims, on

971
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: a scale almost incomprehensible. We did a two parter on

972
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: John of God. You can listen to it. It's a

973
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: fucking nightmare. Um, this guy never gets half the following

974
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: that he has if it's not for Oprah and Dr Oz.

975
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 1: So holy shit, it's good ship, good ship. I found

976
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: a fascinating New York Times article written a few months

977
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: into Dr Oz's new show. It notes that, in transitioning

978
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: to his own series, Dr Oz had to spice up

979
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: his act for a daily day for a daily daytime audience.

980
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: Quote potentially distracted by the tantrums of a toddler or

981
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: the yelping of a labradoodle. They go on to summarize

982
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: his early episodes. His show tackles topics as diverse and

983
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: diversely wady a skin cancer, kitchen burns, sleep eating, and

984
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: pubic hair loss. Returning constantly to the same television mother load,

985
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: Winfrey profitably mind we be overweight guests who vow and

986
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: often fail to get in shape, and it is take

987
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: in its star far away from any sort of traditional

988
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: medical practice. He explains that transition as the product of frustration.

989
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: Too often. He told me he would sit in office

990
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: and be telling you stuff too little, too late, that

991
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: if you've been able to lose a little weight, or

992
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: if your diabetes had been managed more aggressively, then it

993
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: would have dramatically altered your destiny, which is now to

994
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,959
Speaker 1: go downstairs and have open heart surgery. With his TV show,

995
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: he can exhort Americans to end all aspects, to tend

996
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: all aspects of their health head to toe before they

997
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: reach a point of no return, lose weight, go to

998
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: Brazil and get sexually assaulted by a con man. Oh boy,

999
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's always that point. You know, I've listened

1000
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: to your show, and there's always that point in the

1001
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: episode where the comedian or the guest has no other

1002
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: option but to just say fuck, that sucks, dude, there's

1003
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 1: no other comment, but what oh that's crazy. But you know, hey,

1004
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: John of God, dr Ras there, they all sound like

1005
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: great people. Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's going to get worse,

1006
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, he he, This is kind of the period.

1007
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: One of the things he's just to do in this

1008
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,720
Speaker 1: period is he starts cutting back on his surgical practice

1009
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: and performing fewer surgeries. Yeah, because he's got to keep

1010
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: up all those TV dates. Yeah, in order to tell

1011
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: people about John of God, the mass rapist. Uh, and

1012
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: in order to tell people about I don't know, some

1013
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: stuff that's good, right. Telling people to eat healthier is

1014
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: a good. America's diet sucks. His diet advice, I think

1015
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: is well, we'll talk about that later. It's also problematic anyway.

1016
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: He's trading objectively useful medical work for being a nonsense doctor.

1017
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: But he's making millions of dollars. Yeah, And and in America,

1018
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: that is the ultimate marker of doing the right thing.

1019
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: That's the only thing that tells you whether or not,

1020
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing. It makes a lot of money,

1021
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: then whatever you're doing is the right thing to do. Yeah,

1022
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: it's morally correct to make a lot of money. Yeah,

1023
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: morally righteous, righteous wealth. Yes. You know what else is righteous,

1024
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 1: Matt is the products and services. No, my man, it's you.

1025
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: Because the episode is over. Part one is over, and

1026
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna sail out. At first,

1027
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: you've got to plug your plug doubles, and I just

1028
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: decided to compliment you before we were that's very nice

1029
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 1: here here, I thought you were just trying to get

1030
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: me to talk about products and services. Well, I thank

1031
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: you for having me on. Um. I have a product

1032
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: and or service called pod Yourself a Gun. It's a

1033
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: Sopranos podcast and uh uh yeah, if you like the Sopranos,

1034
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: or even if you don't, check it out on the

1035
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: you know wherever the podcasts store is. Podcast All right, Well,

1036
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: this is the show that it is, and we're done

1037
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: doing the things that we do. So go out into

1038
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: the world and I don't know, find Dr Oz and

1039
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: scream at him. Give me a good screaming m m hm.