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Speaker 1: Hey, that folks. It is Friday, August eighth, and we

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Speaker 1: are just getting word today that Brandon Blackstock, the forty

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Speaker 1: eight year old ex husband of singer Kelly Clarkson, has

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Speaker 1: passed away after a private three year battle with cancer.

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Speaker 1: And with that we welcome you to this episode of

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Speaker 1: Amy and TJ. I sit here alongside my partner Amy

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Speaker 1: roboch now and Robes. I think the first part of

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Speaker 1: the story and the reason we are jumping on here

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation not just entirely covering the story,

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Speaker 1: but there is a very personal, very intimate and sometimes

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Speaker 1: maybe even uncomfortable thing that a lot of couples do

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Speaker 1: deal with, and the grief and the morning of someone

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Speaker 1: you are no longer in a relationship with. And these

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Speaker 1: two certainly were contentious perfectly and with their divorce. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to get into necessarily all that and what

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Speaker 1: this is about, but it made us stop and think, Wow,

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Speaker 1: what she may be feeling and going through as a person,

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Speaker 1: even though she's having to do a lot of this publicly.

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Speaker 2: Right, I mean, this is this is complicated and it's tragic.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Brandon and Kelly were married for seven years

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Speaker 2: and he is the father to her two children, who

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Speaker 2: are eleven and nine, I believe, and she has it

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Speaker 2: seems as though now twice put her life or at

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Speaker 2: least her career on hold while she has been dealing

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Speaker 2: with and even caring for her children and their well

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Speaker 2: being surrounding their father's illness. And that takes a significant

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Speaker 2: amount of emotion that I don't think a lot of

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Speaker 2: people are prepared for.

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Speaker 3: It's complicated.

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Speaker 2: You know, you go through a divorce, and this was

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Speaker 2: a contentious one, as you pointed out publicly. You know,

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Speaker 2: she had some lyrics of some songs, and you know,

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Speaker 2: obviously she was angry, and she admitted she was angry.

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Speaker 2: So then how do you take that? And this is

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Speaker 2: fairly recent. You know, their divorce was finalized in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two. There was a two year, very public battle,

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Speaker 2: and now just a few years later, how do you

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Speaker 2: handle that grief and the concern you have for your

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Speaker 2: kids at the same time. It's got to be a tough,

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Speaker 2: tough experience for anyone.

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Speaker 1: And I think I didn't fully get the full family

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Speaker 1: picture because I think it was Wednesday, So we back

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Speaker 1: up here, folks. Wednesday, she made an announcement that she

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Speaker 1: was going to stop her concerts, had to cancel, so

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Speaker 1: a series of concerts she had in Vegas. Now you

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Speaker 1: hear somebody does that for personal reasons, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a big, big, big deal. And then I heard she

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Speaker 1: was canceling because her of an illness with her ex husband,

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Speaker 1: and that made certainly my eyebrow went up, like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? Certainly, Robes, we understand she's doing

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Speaker 1: this for her kids, no matter what was going on

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Speaker 1: with her and her ex. That is the father of

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Speaker 1: her children, and those kids love that man, and therefore

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Speaker 1: she's going to support and love that man to that degree.

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Speaker 1: At least.

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Speaker 2: Yes, your children are half of their spouse, I mean

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Speaker 2: their parents, So your ex spouse, your children are half

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Speaker 2: of that person. They identify as half of that person.

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Speaker 2: And so that's why obviously anyone who goes through divorce

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Speaker 2: knows it's so important never to bad mouth the spouse

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Speaker 2: to the children because the children.

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Speaker 3: Take it on personally.

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Speaker 2: That's their father, that's part of who they are physically, mentally,

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Speaker 2: all of the above. But yeah, when you have feelings

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Speaker 2: of anger towards someone, when you've gone through something so

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Speaker 2: difficult like divorce and there's in particular to then now

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Speaker 2: be loving, be caring, be grieving. It's got to be

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Speaker 2: so confusing.

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Speaker 1: I initially, when I wasn't at it, didn't admit immediately

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Speaker 1: trigger for me a memory of just how bad their

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Speaker 1: divorce was and how public it was. So when I

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Speaker 1: heard that she was stopping her shows to go be

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Speaker 1: there for her kids while her ex husband was ill,

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Speaker 1: I thought, wow, I thought that was actually beautiful. I

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Speaker 1: was almost to a certain degree jealous, wish things in

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Speaker 1: past relationships could have been could be that way. But

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Speaker 1: I applauded, Wow, they're able to still function and she

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Speaker 1: can care for him. And then I went and found

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Speaker 1: the details in the history, and I want, holy shit, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like holy hell on this divorce. And again, people might

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Speaker 1: not know the name Brandon Blacklock right immediately, but he

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Speaker 1: was her longtime manager, a longtime manager, and they had

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Speaker 1: a seven year marriage, two kids. They went through a

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Speaker 1: lot together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was a family affair in the sense

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Speaker 2: that his father owns the company and he was a

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Speaker 2: part of the company, So that family was in her

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Speaker 2: life for years and years and years before they even

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Speaker 2: became an item, before they even started dating. And then

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Speaker 2: eventually got married. So I just I've always liked Kelly

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Speaker 2: Clarkson always. I was a huge American Idol fan when

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Speaker 2: she won that year, and I have followed her music

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Speaker 2: and downloaded her music and run through my own grief

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Speaker 2: in divorces with her voice in my head as I

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Speaker 2: was going through my own stuff, and she now is

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Speaker 2: I just think showing her true cards and her true

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Speaker 2: color is what an incredible person she is to not

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Speaker 2: only have made the choice to take a step back

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Speaker 2: professionally right now to take care of her children and

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Speaker 2: deal with the aftermath of all of this, but now

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Speaker 2: we're getting more understanding of what happened in the spring.

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Speaker 2: A lot of folks were questioning even her mental health.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of speculation out there this spring

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Speaker 2: when she took some time off of her show without

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Speaker 2: any specific explanation and had some celebrity guest hosts filling in.

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Speaker 2: People were going to dark places trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: what was going on with her, what was wrong with her?

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Speaker 2: Good for her keeping in private as they did, and

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Speaker 2: now we find out she was letting her children or

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Speaker 2: taking care of her children, having them spend more time

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Speaker 2: with them, knowing that things weren't going well, that his

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Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis was not going in the direction that they

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Speaker 2: had hoped, and she, I'm sure at that point knew

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Speaker 2: that time was limited, and she took that moment to

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Speaker 2: take a step back again from her very public life

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Speaker 2: and make sure her kids were okay and dealing with

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Speaker 2: it properly. That is incredible. And to never say anything,

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Speaker 2: that's remarkable because he wanted his battle to be private.

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Speaker 2: She respected that, and I respect the hell out of her.

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Speaker 1: And she did. She alluded to some of that privacy

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Speaker 1: and the statement she put out on Wednesday again, she

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Speaker 1: informed folks on Wednesday that she was canceling concerts because

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Speaker 1: she wanted to be there for her kids as their

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Speaker 1: dad was ill. He was dead the next day. But

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Speaker 1: her statement on Wednesday, to your point there roams about

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Speaker 1: her public life and keeping her private life private. She said,

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Speaker 1: quote when I while I normally keep my personal life private,

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Speaker 1: this past year, my children's father has been ill, and

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Speaker 1: at this moment I need to be fully present for them.

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Speaker 1: I am sincerely sorry to everyone who bought tickets to

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Speaker 1: the show, and so I appreciate your great kindness and understanding. Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously you knew it was very very serious for her

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Speaker 1: to do that, But that sounds like a mom Yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't care divorced, or how bad it was, or

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Speaker 1: what their relationship, which we actually do not know in

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Speaker 1: recent months, if you will, what their relationship might have

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Speaker 1: been like. They might have reconciled and we're getting away

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Speaker 1: as getting on as perfectly as anything. But the past

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Speaker 1: couple of years they had.

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Speaker 2: Not no And in fact, I believe from what we've read,

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Speaker 2: this divorce was finalized in twenty twenty two. She filed

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Speaker 2: for divorce in twenty twenty right in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the pandemic. But then there were still legal issues, contentious

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Speaker 2: financial legal issues between Kelly Clarkson and her ex husband's

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Speaker 2: family with the representation she claimed he or they owed

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Speaker 2: her money, they claimed she owed them money. So this

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Speaker 2: was you know, when it comes to divorce is hard enough,

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Speaker 2: and then when it comes to finances and who owes

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Speaker 2: who what, And this was also the step of a

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Speaker 2: professional relationship as well with the company. So yeah, it

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Speaker 2: had been nasty. It had been nasty, and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: weighing on her. She spoke about it a little bit.

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Speaker 2: She was again very private. A lot of people are

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Speaker 2: looking at some of her lyrics. She had an album

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Speaker 2: come out right around the time of the divorce, so

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Speaker 2: people have tried to read between the lines in some

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Speaker 2: of her lyrics about what she was going through and

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Speaker 2: the pain she was feeling.

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Speaker 3: But it was definitely documented.

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Speaker 1: I want to get some context you all, for what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. Just some lyrics and people are kind

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Speaker 1: of piecing together and things like that. Look, she did

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Speaker 1: a whole album called Chemistry. It was a concept album,

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Speaker 1: but she said this thing went through the whole the

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Speaker 1: highs and the lows and the end of her relationship.

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Speaker 1: But she said it was important for her not to

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Speaker 1: just have an album that talk about heartbreak and hurt

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Speaker 1: and divorce. But you have to remember and recall that

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Speaker 1: you made a decision to marry somebody. Maybe this person

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Speaker 1: is someone you took your first roller coaster ride with.

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Speaker 1: You have memories and now you have children involved. You

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Speaker 1: can't just pass often dismiss someone. But lyrics we talk

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Speaker 1: about I don't remember when this performance was where there's

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Speaker 1: video out there of it. The song Everybody Knows abcd FU.

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Speaker 1: She was doing a cover of that song and wrote

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Speaker 1: she changed the lyrics to make pretty clel This was

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Speaker 1: not not only read between lines.

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Speaker 2: No, this was very specific, and everyone jumped on this.

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Speaker 3: This was actually fairly recently.

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Speaker 2: I believe this was in twenty twenty three, where she

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Speaker 2: was as a part of her show she would take

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Speaker 2: on other people's songs and cover renditions of them, and

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Speaker 2: so yeah, she did abcde fuck you and your dad

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Speaker 2: and the fact that you got half and my broken

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Speaker 2: heart turned that shit into art. Fuck you and your

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Speaker 2: view from the Valley I bought to everybody but your dogs,

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Speaker 2: you can all fuck off.

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Speaker 3: That was very specific.

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Speaker 1: That is and we're only giving those lyrics to give

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Speaker 1: context to what we're talking about. It was public, it

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Speaker 1: was contentious, It was nasty, it was finances, it was

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Speaker 1: all of these things. But she seemed Robes to be

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Speaker 1: able to separate the guy she married from the guy

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Speaker 1: who is her kid's father. Those are not the same

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Speaker 1: two individuals, and you can't view those two individuals if

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Speaker 1: you will, the same way, and that's such an important

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Speaker 1: thing to do. Divorce is awful. There's a very small

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Speaker 1: percentage of people who've been through a divorce who say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a good time.

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Speaker 2: Was I don't know anyone who said it was a

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Speaker 2: good time. But look, unfortunately, I have had two divorces,

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Speaker 2: and one was much worse than the other. So yes,

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Speaker 2: divorces come in all shapes and sizes, but none of

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Speaker 2: them are pleasant. I can only imagine maybe a handful

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Speaker 2: of people who could say, you know, I do that

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Speaker 2: again now when you go through something that traumatic divorce

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Speaker 2: is one of the toughest things anybody goes through.

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Speaker 1: And you're in death and you're heard, and it's the

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Speaker 1: end of what it's end of almost your hopes, a

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Speaker 1: lifetime dream. It was a lifetime dream. I'm doing something

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Speaker 1: that's going to carry me through the end of my days.

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Speaker 1: That sucks, and that's hard. So when I started going

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Speaker 1: back through some of their relationship history and I was thinking, Wow,

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Speaker 1: what must this young lady be going through today?

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Speaker 3: You know, I was thinking about her.

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Speaker 2: You know, she talked about the real anger that she

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Speaker 2: had at the end of their relationship, and that a

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Speaker 2: lot of awful things were said, which is what always

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Speaker 2: happens in situations like this. But you go through that

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Speaker 2: grief initially of grieving the relationship or what you thought

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Speaker 2: it could be or what you hoped it would be,

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Speaker 2: and then eventually, yes, you can put that aside and

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Speaker 2: you can put your kids first.

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Speaker 3: And hopefully you put your kids first throughout all of it.

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Speaker 2: But I'm only imagining now this grief now upon his death,

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Speaker 2: how that compares, and how the initial grief has affected

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Speaker 2: this grief Like this is a double whammy. It's a

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Speaker 2: one to two punch. You grieved the end of your

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Speaker 2: relationship with somebody, and now you're grieving losing their not

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Speaker 2: just their life, but their influence and their support that

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Speaker 2: they would have had for your children. Now she truly

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Speaker 2: is raising these kids on her own in a way

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Speaker 2: that maybe she did not anticipate.

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Speaker 3: You know, everyone, anyone.

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Speaker 2: Who's been through divorce knows the important role even in

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Speaker 2: your divorce, that other parent in your children's life.

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Speaker 3: That has got to be tough.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine you go back and you you would

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Speaker 2: like to change a lot of things when you realize

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Speaker 2: that somebody has gone too quickly and he was young,

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Speaker 2: forty eight years old. No one's expecting their ex to

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Speaker 2: die that young. That's just shocking.

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Speaker 1: But the grief, folks, she's going through is a double

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Speaker 1: whammy of grief, as Robes was just saying, But there

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Speaker 1: are therapists out there the professionals who will tell you

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Speaker 1: there's a very specific kind of grief as well that

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Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson and other people who may have found themselves

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Speaker 1: in that same position are going through. It's something called

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Speaker 1: disenfranchised disenfranchised grief. We didn't know what it was.

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Speaker 2: Do you. Welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy

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Speaker 2: and TJ, where we are talking about Kelly Clarkson and

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Speaker 2: what she must be going through right now. She has

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Speaker 2: lost her ex husband to cancer after a three year battle.

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Speaker 2: She has put her professional career right now on hold

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Speaker 2: to take care of her children to help them through this.

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Speaker 2: But also she's got to be going through so much

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Speaker 2: herself personally. This is you know, her divorce wasn't even

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Speaker 2: finalized until three years ago, so it sounds like his

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Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis happened around the same time her divorce.

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Speaker 3: Was finalized in twenty twenty two. That's if you do

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Speaker 3: the math about the same and that has.

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Speaker 2: That has got to be such a difficult situation, a

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Speaker 2: difficult road to walk down because not many people have

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Speaker 2: had to deal with that. The feelings and the grief

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Speaker 2: and the anger you have coming out of a failed

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Speaker 2: marriage or a divorce.

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Speaker 3: Now add to that.

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Speaker 2: Losing your children's father and perhaps feeling grief just about

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Speaker 2: how everything went down and how contentious it got.

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Speaker 3: It's a tough tough spot to be in.

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Speaker 2: But there is a name for it, as we were

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Speaker 2: talking about before we took our break, And yes, the

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Speaker 2: professionals will tell you this is a clear example of

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Speaker 2: what they call disenfranchised grief.

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Speaker 1: I never heard of it before today at all, but

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Speaker 1: it's this idea, and you get it once it's explained

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Speaker 1: to you. It's just the type of grief you can't

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Speaker 1: do openly. It's a type of grief where it's not accepted,

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Speaker 1: it's not welcomed, it's not necessarily public. You feel like

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Speaker 1: you are in a position where you are not given

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Speaker 1: the freedom even to grief. You're the X. Nobody's coming

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Speaker 1: up to the X and saying I'm so sorry for

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Speaker 1: your loss. They'll come up to the kids, they'll hug

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Speaker 1: them and sorry and whatnot. But it's often times people

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Speaker 1: don't know how to treat an X who now is

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Speaker 1: in a position of this is someone I actually didn't

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Speaker 1: get along with in recent times in recent years, or

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Speaker 1: of somebody I didn't like even in recent times in

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Speaker 1: recent years, or this.

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Speaker 2: Is somebody I was really angry with or still angry

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Speaker 2: at it, and still have feelings of that anger towards them.

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Speaker 2: How do you deal with those feelings of anger without

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Speaker 2: actually feeling guilt about feeling them.

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Speaker 3: Alongside the grief of the loss.

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Speaker 2: They actually use the phrase you said, disenfranchised grief, but

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Speaker 2: they also say it's just another way to basically describe

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Speaker 2: complicated grief, and that's exactly what is complicated. And they said,

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Speaker 2: sometimes if it is an X or someone you didn't

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Speaker 2: like who suddenly dies, you may actually even have a

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Speaker 2: part of you deep within you that is glad. It's

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Speaker 2: not that you wish them dead, but you're not sad,

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Speaker 2: and then you feel guilty about not feeling sad. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you go through a range of emotions, and each

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Speaker 2: particular case would be specific, but it's a way of

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Speaker 2: letting people know it's okay, and you kind of have

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Speaker 2: to let those feelings come out, even if you have

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Speaker 2: to do it privately. And that's a whole other issue

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Speaker 2: of having to do that on your own, to not

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Speaker 2: perhaps feel comfortable telling someone how you're really feeling, or

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Speaker 2: explaining to someone how you're really feeling, and especially when

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Speaker 2: you have young children who are grieving their father, having

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Speaker 2: to try and be the strong one and not let

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Speaker 2: those feelings out or not let yourself feel those feelings.

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Speaker 3: It's tough.

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Speaker 1: But the double whammy of grief is, yes, you're grieving

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Speaker 1: the loss of your even if you don't like the person,

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Speaker 1: you're grieving the that your child lost a parent, that

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Speaker 1: you're said that will wake you cry for your kids, period,

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Speaker 1: point blank. But the double whammy of grief comes from

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Speaker 1: you're grieving or getting a chance now to grieve your

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Speaker 1: divorce all over again. You're getting a chance now that

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily sad and crying about the loss of

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Speaker 1: this person that you might have had an issue with.

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Speaker 1: But roll if you're looking now at this person is

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Speaker 1: gone and now you look at what could have been, Well,

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Speaker 1: I married that person, look at that life we had

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Speaker 1: that ended. You're now going back with this person being gone,

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Speaker 1: and you're looking at the whole of your time and

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Speaker 1: your relationship. Everybody is sad after a divorce, even if

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Speaker 1: you're happy you're getting out of it. It does not

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Speaker 1: feel good to go through that process. For her to

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Speaker 1: have gone through that which we know and she told

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Speaker 1: us hurt. Now she's going once again through the loss

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Speaker 1: of that relationship with this, she's living that over again.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the therapists will tell you that double

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Speaker 1: whammy sometimes come and the hurt and the pain and

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Speaker 1: we don't understand even what we're going through because we're

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Speaker 1: not sure what to be sad about. Right, this is

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Speaker 1: when she told me, told me, when she told us

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Speaker 1: all about that cancelation, it was one of the first

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Speaker 1: things that came to my mind was how complicated it

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Speaker 1: is for her to grieve and to have to grieve publicly.

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Speaker 1: Like even if she walked into where we are right now,

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Speaker 1: I would say, how are the kids? I would say,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for what they're having to go through. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I would say to her first condolenceays

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for your loss.

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Speaker 2: Right, I don't know that anybody would say that.

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Speaker 1: I means that okay to do and should we be

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Speaker 1: doing that? She is, what what do you do? This

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Speaker 1: is such it's such a fascinating I guess just human experience,

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Speaker 1: and I guess a lot of people out there have

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Speaker 1: dealt with this before. And X dies, you don't celebrate,

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Speaker 1: but you don't know necessarily feel a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: sadness about the loss of that person, even though you

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Speaker 1: might feel sad about how your relationship ended with that

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Speaker 1: person or the things you didn't get finality on, or

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Speaker 1: it's just sucks to think that she has to do

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Speaker 1: this in public.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think so many of us who have

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Speaker 2: been through bad breakups, and especially even public ones, we

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Speaker 2: all kind of put ourselves in that position, in Kelly

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Speaker 2: Clarkson's position, and think, Wow, what would I feel, what

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Speaker 2: would I say?

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Speaker 3: What would I do? How would I act?

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Speaker 2: Knowing that everyone around you has probably slightly different feelings

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Speaker 2: than you do. That is just a It's a remarkable

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Speaker 2: place to be in. And I feel like, just given

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Speaker 2: her recent actions in the spring and certainly this week when.

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Speaker 3: She decided to pull back on her concerts in August

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Speaker 3: in Vegas, and she's doing.

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Speaker 2: The right thing, and she's she's being a mom, a

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Speaker 2: mom first, and I wonder how long before she is

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Speaker 2: able to take care of herself, because she's going to

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Speaker 2: need some time as well. And I was even imagining

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Speaker 2: the songs that she wrote that whole album came out

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Speaker 2: right around her divorce and certainly expressed a lot of

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Speaker 2: her pain and anger, if she'd ever even feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: performing those songs again. I started thinking about some of

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Speaker 2: her music. Anyone who's an artist, you know, so much

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Speaker 2: of what you're going through pours out into your music.

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Speaker 2: And to be performing some of these fan favorites, who

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Speaker 2: knows the memories they will bring up with her life

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Speaker 2: with him and even the good times, you know, some

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Speaker 2: of these songs that are beautiful that we love, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure celebrated the love she had for him. And she

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Speaker 2: talks the album that she wrote at coming out of

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Speaker 2: the divorce. She said it was called Chemistry, and she

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Speaker 2: made a point to say, this isn't just about being angry,

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Speaker 2: This isn't just a divorce album. This is about the

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Speaker 2: entire arc of the relationship. And she talked about how

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Speaker 2: when she first met her husband, her ex husband, that

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Speaker 2: he was the first person that she actually felt real

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Speaker 2: chemistry towards and for, and so he was the first

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Speaker 2: person she really physically loved in addition to wanting to

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Speaker 2: marry him. So, God, all that stuff is just bound

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Speaker 2: to come up, and it's gonna be tough.

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Speaker 1: You're not you're not spared from pain and from grief.

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Speaker 1: Just because the person who died is somebody you don't

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Speaker 1: love anymore. Yeah, And it's complicated, it's tough. I just

401
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Speaker 1: in that moment again, being somebody who's divorced twice now,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to put yourself in that position and think

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Speaker 1: how you might feel. And it makes you consider how

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Speaker 1: you feel right now and if that's okay, and if

405
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Speaker 1: you should be viewing and it a little differently. Look,

406
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Speaker 1: I'm there for to being whatever with her mom. There's

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Speaker 1: no issue or nothing there. But I just can't imagine

408
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Speaker 1: being in that position. And I can comfort Sabine and

409
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Speaker 1: also don't want her to always love her mom and

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Speaker 1: have a good relationship with her mom despite whatever relationship

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Speaker 1: I might have with her mom. I just there was

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Speaker 1: something sweet in this story now after it was so

413
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Speaker 1: bitter for the last couple of years, And that juxtaposition

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Speaker 1: really threw me and had me thinking about all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when you're in the middle of a

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Speaker 2: divorce or you're fighting somebody over money or whatever your

418
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Speaker 2: issues are, you weren't thinking about the larger perspective of

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Speaker 2: life and how quickly it comes and goes and how

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Speaker 2: suddenly it can go away. But I think the lesson

421
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Speaker 2: here for me as I'm watching Kelly Clarkson go through

422
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Speaker 2: this publicly, is to let go of any bitterness, any anger.

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Speaker 2: There's this time is fleeting and we don't know what

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Speaker 2: tomorrow is going to bring, We don't know what the

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Speaker 2: next hour is going to bring. And there are lessons

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Speaker 2: in what she is going through right now for all

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Speaker 2: of us with any relationship that may have ended, even

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Speaker 2: with a friend or whomever. It doesn't have to be

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Speaker 2: a romantic one, but just to remember that we don't

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00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: have to hold on to so much hate, and we

431
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 2: can forgive and our hearts can well thank us for it.

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Speaker 2: They'll be less heavy, they'll be less burdened. And it's

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Speaker 2: just this has given me a lot of food for

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Speaker 2: thought in terms of how I want to go through life.

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Speaker 2: And I know we can never not have regrets, but

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Speaker 2: letting go of anger, letting go of pain, freeing your

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Speaker 2: heart from that is a beautiful thing.

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Speaker 1: And so, folks, we always appreciate you hanging with us.

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Speaker 1: We just wanted to hop on here on this Friday

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Speaker 1: and give some thoughts and maybe give you something to

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Speaker 1: think about as well. But wherever you may be right now,

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Speaker 1: hope you are doing well and certainly have yourself a

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Speaker 1: good weekend. We'll be checking in with you soon for

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Speaker 1: Amy roboch my partner up t J Holmes. See y'all soon,