WEBVTT - From the Vault: Anthology of Horror, Volume 2 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.320 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.440 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:17.000 vault time, folks. This episode originally aired on October nineteen, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.640 and it is our Anthology of Horror volume two. That's right. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.720 I mean we'll introduce this in the episode itself, but briefly, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.800 this is you know and Thought TV anthology episodes that 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.320 are horror themed. We take them, we use them as 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.160 a springboard to talk about science. This was the second 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.280 one in this series, and we'll be sharing the third 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.159 one in the series as a vault episode in the 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:41.720 weeks ahead, and hey, might even get an all new 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:48.000 fourth volume. We'll see what we can put together. Welcome 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:49.680 to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:59.080 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, Welcome to Stuff to 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.280 Blow Your Mind, and my name is Robert Gooley Lamb. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.680 I am Corrosive Joseph McCormick, and we are here with 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.280 our producer death Nicholas Johnson. Yes, and it is that 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.319 time again. Uh, it's it's been a year since we 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.279 did Anthology of Horror volume one, and so we're about 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.680 to assault you with Anthology of Horror volume two, and 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.120 then guess what the episode after this, He's going to 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:28.039 be Anthology of Horror volume three. It's not an anthology 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.000 unless they're at least three volume exactly. So yeah, I've 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.160 been looking forward to this all year pretty much, Robert. 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.640 I know the back corners of your brain are just 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:41.520 full of cobwebs made of old horror anthology TV episodes. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.880 Every time we get talking about this, you dredge something 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.920 up from the void, something you saw on TV as 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.520 a kid. Am I wrong about this? Pretty much? Because 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.640 when I was a kid, I watched a lot of television, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.080 and of the various joyfully weird things that were on 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:01.560 television reruns or syndicated horror and oology shows were one 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.520 of the best because you never knew exactly what you're 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.960 going to get each episode. It's an anthology. So each 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.840 episode of something like The Twilight Zone or Night Gallery 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.160 or Outer Limits or Tales from the Crypt, each one 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.880 is its own thing, its own world. It has its 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.440 own cast, its own monster or threat or sci fi weirdness, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.200 and it's completely encapsulated. I love especially some of these 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.960 are really good. Actually, the Twilight Zone I think is 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.680 even better than a lot of people remember, and I 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.440 think a lot of times it's because The Twilight Zone 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.480 was not an hour long show, or I think maybe 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:37.760 it was in one of its later seasons which turned 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.360 out to be disastrous. I mean, you know, this is 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.480 a type twentysomething minute short story. It's it's a good 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.400 way not to get bogged down and stuff that doesn't 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.040 matter with when you're not going into like in depth 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.040 character storytelling, but you're like exploring high level premises. Yeah, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.040 you know, it's it's more it's more in line with 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.320 certainly some of the short stories you you know, the 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.799 classic short stories you think of a say like Philip K. Dick, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.400 where it's it's really about rolling out a cool idea, 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.720 maybe a cool twist or a shock, but mostly about 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.880 you know, to make you think about something. And uh, yeah, 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.960 so I I love a really great episode of an 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.320 anthology show. Certainly, like you said, some of those Twilight 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.760 Zones hold up amazingly. Well, we're gonna be talking about 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.600 one of my favorites of all time today. Yeah, but 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.440 then also some of the worst examples. I have one show, 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:26.880 and this is a show I didn't I don't think 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.919 I even watched when it came on, but Perversions of Science. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.640 It was sci fi sort of spinoff of Tales from 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.640 the Crypt and uh, I haven't watched fully sleazy, but 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.840 very like future smooth. Yeah. Yeah, lots of cursing, some 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.800 gratuitous nudity, but like a lot of these shows, often 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.520 tremendous talent packed into each episode, like some great actors, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:54.000 some great directors. Um. So every horror anthology show, I 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.120 feel like the ones that i've I look back on 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.480 finally are the ones I haven't even seen yet. Uh, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.400 there's so many treasures to ever. I watched so many 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.800 of these things. It's very specifically on Beach Hotel cable. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.520 This is what I remember. Yeah, it was like I 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.240 watched Mystery Science Theater three thousand that way. I mean, 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.360 I guess basically when my family went to the beach, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.000 everybody else would be out in the sun and I'd 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.880 be watching the sci fi channel. But that's how you 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:22.599 see reruns of Monsters, which is a show that I 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:27.080 had completely forgotten about until you you sent me something 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.520 about it the other day and I was looking at 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.640 the images from the opening credits and I was like, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.360 oh my god, yes, that's way back in there. Somewhere 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.320 deep in the recesses of my mind. This is there. 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.279 I've seen it before, all right, Well, before we get 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.760 more properly into into monsters, I just want to tell everybody, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.279 like what the basic format here is. If you haven't 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.479 heard one of our anthority of horror episodes before, or 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.760 the creepy Pasta episodes that preceded it, the idea is, uh, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.480 we're gonna grab a few in in each episode. We're 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.880 gonna each grab one episode of a horror anthology show. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.039 We're gonna tell you what it's about, remind you what 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:03.840 it's about if you've seen it before, and then we're 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.159 gonna break down some of the ideas involved there, you know, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.320 some of the science of the thing, whatever it happens 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:12.839 to to be, even if we have to shoehorn it 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.560 a little bit. And uh, and that's where the fun 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.440 is exactly. We are nothing if not experts at dragging 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:23.479 deep thoughts out of strangely shallow places. Yes. Uh again, 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.120 We're gonna also go to some I think some rather 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.800 deep waters in these twilight zones. Yeah, so let's begin 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.520 with monsters. Okay. This This ran for three seasons from 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.039 eight through ninete and I think I only caught it 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.920 once at like my aunt's house back in the day, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:41.640 and I don't even know if it was in syndication 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.200 or on the Sci Fi channel after it had finished 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.200 its run. But today you can find all of it 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.039 on Amazon Prime. You can find a lot of the episodes, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.880 maybe all of them just on YouTube. But but yeah, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.599 it's like a lot of these shows, it's a wealth 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.799 of talent and weirdness. I was wondering how many people 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.200 were hoping that this show would have disappeared into history forever, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.120 only to have the digital age to revive all of 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:10.039 these old things that these actors did. Yeah, yeah, possible. Possibly, Yeah, 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.840 because there you see some some interesting people show up 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.680 in Monsters for instance. Uh, you know you have you 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.760 have some great authors like Dan Simons shows up tom 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.200 Noonan shows up writing and directing like a couple of episodes, 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:29.360 Tony Shalub shows up, Gina Gershaun, Steve U Simmy in 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.679 an excellent pig Monster related episode that I won't spoil 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.719 for anybody. Oh man, we were just talking about pig Monsters. Yeah, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.279 and this is a great pig Monster episode. I gotta 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.560 dive in. But yeah, this show is kind of a 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.400 spiritual successor to Tails from the Dark Side, which one 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.080 eighty eight, which I did see a lot of and 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.720 was traumatized to times by as a child. Uh. And 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.760 the Monsters featured many of the same people, and again 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.880 an incredible opening sequence, like a lot of these anthologies 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.880 shows had, in which a humorous family of monsters settled 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.120 in to watch TV together, I believe, right before they 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.039 start watching their show, the mother monster shows up with 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.000 a dish full of something she's been cooking, and the 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:15.480 child monster declares, candied critters, Yeah, it's it's cheesy, it's great. Uh, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.880 and then it and then you proceed into some new 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.000 story that's going to center around a monster. And usually 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.640 that's like really cool practical effects too. So these episodes 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.120 it can be a little hokey intentionally, so at times 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.360 that the music is a little weird, this kind of 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.640 sense music that I even have trouble loving at times, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.880 like synthetic saxophone music. You've got a very open heart 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:42.240 for synth. Yeah, but great cast, cool monster and Uh. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.400 The episode I'm going to talk about today is one 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.960 titled Far Below. And the reason I was so excited 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.400 I didn't even know they'd covered this, but Far Below 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.080 is one of my favorite short stories by Robert Barbour Johnson, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.920 who lived nineteen o seven through seven. Uh, this is 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.760 like a Weird Tales era story that I read years 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.240 and years ago, and I've just I've lived my entire 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.520 life up until like this week, having no idea that 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.840 anybody had ever adapted it. So so I was instantly 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.920 excited and I and I said, all right, I've got 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.920 to cover this. So it takes place in the deepest 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.680 depths of the New York subway system, one of my 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.640 favorite places anyway, and you have a you have a 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.000 special segment of city services that wage an endless campaign 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.280 against the ghouls that burrow up from the depths. It's 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.120 a it's a haunting tale. The positions them as workers 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.240 in a dark and human place against an inhuman enemy, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.080 and they all are on the risk of losing their 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:41.400 own humanity in the process. So this season two adaptation 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.880 of Far Below has a lot going for it. So 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.120 not only do you have Johnson's short story as the 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.840 you know, the the inspiration for it. It was adapted 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.360 for the screen by Michael McDowell, the screenwriter who gave 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.320 us Beetlejuice, The Nightmare Before Christmas, and perhaps to a 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.520 lesser extent, Thinner. Two out of three ain't bad. Yeah. 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.560 Plus it's directed by the legendary producer Deborah Hill, whoa 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.680 Deborah Hill of like John Carpenter movie fame. Yeah Yeah, 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.360 longtime collab collaborator and producer of John Carpenter's films such 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.679 as Halloween, Halloween to the Fog, Halloween three, Season of 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.160 the Witch, Yes, Escape from New York, Escape from l A. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.640 She also produced Clue, The Dead Zone, The Fisher King, 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.439 and Big Top Peeweek. So, but this was one of 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.200 the only two things she ever directed. So I was instantly, 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.600 you know, intrigued. And then the cast is small but 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.079 pretty fun. In that veteran actor Barry Nelson places his 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.840 character Dr. Vernon Rathmore Barry Nelson was he in Planet 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.360 of the Vampires? Oh, he might have been. Maybe you 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.360 can do a quick look up on that while I 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.080 cover some of other things he was in. Uh, you know, 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.559 he's one of these character actress that was in everything. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.160 A lot of TV work back in the day. A 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.520 few classic horror anthology shows as well, like Twilight Zone, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.920 Suspense and The Alfred Hitchcock hour, but I think most 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.360 people will probably remember him from Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.120 in which he played Ullman opposite Jack Nicholson in the 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.000 job interview scene. That's correct that I was also mistaken 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.560 Planet of the Vampire, says Barry Sullivan. Okay, different bar 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.199 They were like there are a lot of Berriers back 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:20.160 in the day. Um. So the adaptation itself is pretty fun. 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.040 It introduces a new twist, and they opted to present 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.559 the Ghoules, which are not really referred to as such 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.480 if I remember correctly. They present them much more like 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.720 the more Locks from the nineteen sixty adaptation of HD 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.680 Wells The Time Machine, which I think is a fine choice. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.840 You know, you need some sort of subterranean humanoid but 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.160 in human creature. If you're not gonna go for like 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.520 what I imagine is the straight up Google or perhaps 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.720 sort of the dog like love crafty and goul, than 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.520 I think a Morelock is a solid choice. Now, I 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.520 want to know more about the the ghouls in the 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.800 story in the in the segment, are I mean, are 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.320 they sort of the grave flesh eating scavengers we we 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.560 know of as gools? Um? Not so, I mean, there's 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:06.040 clearly an inspiration from Pigman's model the Lovecraft story, in 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.360 which ghoules are bubbling out from the like the underworld, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:14.120 um and uh and potentially corrupting mortal minds. Like, clearly 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.480 that was part of the inspiration. That's part of the 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.360 world from which the story emerges. But in in the 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.720 story itself and in the adaptation, it's more like these 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.960 are creatures. They are wandering up from the depths like 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.480 we've It's kind of a tolken Esque idea of if 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.920 we've dug too far into the earth, and now these 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.880 things are coming up, and we have to stop them 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.080 because they're going to continue to pick off subway workers 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.000 and you know, vagrants and then eventually other people, and 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.000 if we don't keep them in check, they will just 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.640 overwhelm us. This is funny. I was just reading The 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.160 Two Towers in the chapter where Gandalf explains what happens after, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.640 you know, after he plunged down, after the Balaragi says, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.040 they went into the depths of the earth, far below 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.599 where any you know, the thing that lives above, and 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.040 it is the abode of slimy things and things that 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.319 cannot be named yes, and and indeed these are these 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.680 are some of those nameless things. So on the subject 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.800 of Google's, we of course have an entire episode in 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.040 the Vault about the idea of Google's. We've talked at 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.640 length as well about life underground and the effects of 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.400 human life underground, and so I don't want to retread 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.960 on much of that content. It's it's definitely there and 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.080 we love it. And if you want more subterranean humans 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.160 and Googles, go check those episodes out. But I did 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.480 find a line of the inquiry on this that I 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.880 think is pretty solid. So we have an underground war 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.679 in a great modern metropolis against inhuman enemy that rises 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.920 from the depths, and yet these more lockesque creatures are 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.560 drawn up to feed on humans, the humans that have 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.520 overpopulated this region. They seem to feast on vagrant and 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.200 subway workers, and would feast on far more of the 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.760 populace if not for the efforts of Dr Rathmore and 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.640 his you know, basically, the premises auditors have come to 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.160 check him out because his department is seems to be 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.920 way overfunded, way were armed, and the outsiders asking why 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.240 do you need all these weapons? Why do you need 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.840 all this funding, and and then the story is about 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.000 presenting exactly why this funding is needed. But basically, in 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.360 this fight, uh, the fictional characters are far below have 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.200 much in common with those who battle various organisms that 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.480 we label pests in the real world. And the most 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.199 obvious parallel is the rat, the true citizen of the 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.960 subway tunnels exactly. I mean when you go down there 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.800 to take a train, they're not in your way or 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.400 you know, getting into your stuff. You're in their world. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.360 You're just a guest. Yeah. Now, to be sure, a 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.760 single rat can be a problem even in a you know, 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.160 a sort of a prehistoric, precity sense of human existence. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.199 And the same can be said of same mosquitoes. Uh, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.200 you know, they both can spread or help spread pathogens. Uh. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:50.880 The same can be said of something like the locust. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.080 But but all these examples of our organisms as well, 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.560 that can become an even greater problem when they are 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:01.480 imbalanced by human activity. So let's let's think about the 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.120 rat as biologists Ken Appland put it quoted in the 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.040 Case for Leaving City Rats Alone by Becca Cudmore for Nautilus. 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:15.320 Rats are disruption specialists, so they thrive in disrupted ecosystems, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.240 they spill into unbalanced realms and carve out a kingdom 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.360 for themselves. And he points out that the very few 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.440 wild animals have done this quite as well as the 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.640 rats in the human world without undergoing domestication. That's an 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.880 interesting point. Yeah, so we we think about organisms that 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.400 can successfully thrive at the edges of human civilization. You've 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.080 you've got two main versions. You've got those that become 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.440 tame and and eventually get bred by humans, like dogs 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.440 or farm animals or even cats, which are a little 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.680 bit wilder versions wilder but still definitely domesticated. Yeah. Then 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.280 you've got the ones that are just sort of destroyed 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.160 by our presence, which are i'd say maybe the majority 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.640 of animals, and like when we change an ecosystem, they suffer. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:02.840 And then yeah, you've got this third category, the ones 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.200 we think of as unwelcome survivors in our environments. Yeah, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.640 because you've disrupted everything. But this is an organism that 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.480 thrives on disruption. They can go right in there and 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.240 find a place for itself. You know, all the rat 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.120 needs is a is a is a place to borrow 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.760 fifty grams of calorie rich or moderately calorie rich food 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.440 per day and some water to drink. Um. And they 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.680 they're going to find that they're going to find an 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.160 abundance of that in our environments. I mean in our garbage, 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.440 in our in our you know, in our refuse, and 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.200 in the in the leavings of our civilization, and for 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.160 all of our domesticated minions, for all of our traps 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.600 and our poisons. Rats still rule cities like New York City. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.840 In previous episodes, I think we've even talked about rats 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.040 societies in New York City, And yeah, there are sort 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:56.200 of separate subcultures of rats within the cities that that 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.000 they occupy. Yes, and that's gonna that's indeed gonna become 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.600 very important to or in just a minute. Okay, the 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.440 rat was already perfectly evolved to do all of this. Uh, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.560 they were stealing from other organisms before us. Most likely, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.920 we just continue to offer more and more to steal, 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.480 creating waste, disruption and hiding places everywhere we go. And 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.480 of course we went absolutely everywhere, bringing rats in our wake. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.640 Becca Cudmore's article, however, deals mostly with the Vancouver rat Project, 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.200 which points out that some experts identify the potential dangers 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.120 posed by fighting back against the rat occupation too hard. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.720 And part of it comes down to this, to the 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:43.400 disruption of these stable rat colonies. Uh, these these stable areas, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.440 these little little pocket civilizations that the rats have established 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.240 in these disrupted ecosystems. These are some of the key 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.240 points that have been made. First of all, drive rats 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.880 out of one home or block and into another home 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.760 or block, and you might be spreading rat pathogens that 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:05.080 otherwise be quarantined within this stable group. Oh yeah. Plus, 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.080 urban rats have a garbage based diet, meaning that they 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.119 absorb a lot of bacteria, and this is often place 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.720 specific bacteria. It's tied to the building, to the people 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.520 that live in that particular building. Drive them out and 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.800 you spread these particular bacteria elsewhere. You're stirring the pot, right, 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.119 and then rats in one area will wage bloody war 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.399 against any stranger rat that arrives. This applies to New 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:31.719 York City as well, where I've read and I think 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.040 we've talked about this before about how a native rat 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.960 population tends to do a decent job of fighting off 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.280 rat invasions that come in on ships, etcetera. Um, And 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.119 so it's a perpetual turf war. But these turf wars, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.160 especially when you stir them up by fighting back against 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:50.359 the rats too hard, potentially, uh, those turf war wars 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.679 spill rat blood. They cause rats to urinate out of fear, 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.680 and so what we get is a mix of rat 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:01.000 blood and rat urine and rat gut contents real which 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.920 is brew. In fact, Kaylee Buyers of the Vancouver Rat 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.840 Project points out that these brawls allow bacteria to converge, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.399 to mix and potentially create new disease. It's bacteria that 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.760 wouldn't otherwise interact with each other, are pooled together, swap 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.360 genes and form new diseases, such as a methocillin resistant 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.840 staff or m r S. A. Oh wow, I didn't 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.080 even think about that as a consequence of another thing 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.879 we've talked about before, of course, horizontal gene transfer between 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.480 single celled organisms like bacteria. You know, if one acquires 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.520 a useful adaptation and say resisting a certain antibiotic, they 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.560 can share that gene for that adaptation via a sort 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.159 of analogy of bacterial sex. It's not sexual reproduction, but 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.840 they can take part of their genome and just put 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.119 it in another bacterium. Yeah, so we have a situation 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.600 where we disrupted the environment. Organism that thrives and disruption 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.960 is moved in, and then if we attempt to remove 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.280 that organism, we bring more this eruption into the scenario, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.840 We bring more more chaos. Uh So the idea of 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.280 of fixing these probably becomes more of a hard problem 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.760 of dealing with these rat infestations. Uh So. Anyway, not 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.760 not to say that we shouldn't fight against rats and 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.159 keep them from living too high on the hog, but 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.240 we got here through disruption, so we shouldn't be surprised 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.000 if there are consequences for disrupting it further totally. And 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.080 if you're going to fight a secret war against the ghouls, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.000 well then perhaps it's worth fighting. Uh you know, at 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.200 a perpetual stalemate, right White turn a cold war into 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.240 a hot war, exactly. All Right, I'm gonna have more 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.240 about the war against rats and potentially ghouls here in 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.120 a second, but first let's talk go an ad break here. 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.919 All right, all right, we're back to city rats the 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.320 ghouls of the real world. Yeah, and comparing it to 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.240 that episode of Monsters far Below based on a beloved 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.880 ghoule short story. Uh. So here's another thing to think 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.639 about here. Uh. We've talked about how rats spread with 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:09.439 human civilization, and there's such a highly successful organism, and 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.040 yet there are a few areas of the world that 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.919 have remained essentially rat free, the most notable of which 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:19.280 is the Canadian province of Alberta. Uh. It's virtually free 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.760 of the Norway rat. Uh. Now, while rats do turn 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.440 up from time to time, brought in through traditional means, 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.320 you know, they come in, you know, on a shipment 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.160 or or so forth, but the province has been very 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.800 proactive in squashing these flare ups to hold onto that 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.199 rat free championship that they've that they've earned. You know, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.040 I have been to Alberta. Actually, I have been to 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.160 the city of Calgary and and driven around in there, 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.200 and I never noticed roving teams of anti rat sorcerers, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:52.040 rat exorcists of any kind. And so, so what's the secret? Yeah, 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.000 that's like everybody's next question. How did they get rat free? 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:56.960 What they do? What can I do to get that 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.840 in my city? Well, basically they were just able to 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.600 heat the rats out before they moved in, which I 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.920 think lines up rather nicely with the story of far 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.439 below the idea of keep the ghouls from boiling up 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.480 into New York City because once they're up, there's no 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.879 getting rid of them. Announce of prevention is worth a 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.960 pound of cure. Yeah. So basically this is how it 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.000 went went down. The Norway rat arrived in North America 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.880 and roughly seventeen seventy five keyports cities never had a chance. 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.199 But from there they gradually spread across the continent, and 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.760 that took time for certain areas. The rats didn't enter 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.560 eastern Saskatchewan until the nineteen twenties, and according to Alberta's 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.800 official website on their history of rat control, the rats 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.520 continue to spread northwest at a rate of fifteen miles 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:45.800 or twenty four kilometers per year. So they first reached 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.480 the eastern border of Alberta in nineteen fifty and that's 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.159 where they stopped them with rat control measures, keeping the 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.720 province and its cities free of the furry invaders. And 0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.000 uh and that also includes its largest city, Calgary. Basically, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.040 they realized the threat to all levels of human activities, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.480