Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day
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Speaker 1: As we think about where we are in this pandemic
Speaker 1: and the vaccines, um, you know, we've moved from the
Speaker 1: science stage. Can the scientists figure this out? And the
Speaker 1: answer has been a resounding yes. Such extraordinary work done
Speaker 1: by many people around the world. Now we're down to
Speaker 1: the supply chain, the manufacturing, the distribution, getting it into
Speaker 1: people's arms. Uh, and that is going to be a
Speaker 1: challenge in and of itself. Top us kind of walk
Speaker 1: through that. We welcome Rich Fitzgerald. He's an executive at
Speaker 1: Allegheny County. He's located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Rich, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us here. I understand that you re
Speaker 1: eaved the are you participated in the MODERNA phase three trial?
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about about that. I did,
Speaker 1: you know? It's kind the executive we we obviously run
Speaker 1: the health department for for the second biggest county here
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, where Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is located in and back
Speaker 1: in the summer, our health department director, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of asked me if I wanted to be part of
Speaker 1: a trial vaccine trial. And I'm not a medical person,
Speaker 1: so I was very very reluctant, as as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: but she kind of convinced me. And I have a
Speaker 1: wife who's a pharmacist, so that kind of helped me
Speaker 1: a little bit too. So I went through all the
Speaker 1: questionnaire do you have allergies, do you have medical you
Speaker 1: know what kind of medication, your age, who you're on,
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. I ended up getting
Speaker 1: the first shot back in September, early September, UM, and
Speaker 1: then four weeks later you're scheduled for the second shot. UM.
Speaker 1: I didn't know they don't tell you if you're getting
Speaker 1: the placebo or the vaccine, so you're in a blinded trial.
Speaker 1: But they did tell me before I got the second shot,
Speaker 1: that I might get these certain symptoms of a bit
Speaker 1: of a fever, a little bit of achiness, you might
Speaker 1: have a headache, etcetera. I ultimately I did get the symptoms.
Speaker 1: They lasted about twelve hours. They were extremely mild. So
Speaker 1: I feel very fortunate. And then I find out I
Speaker 1: guess it was in November that the Maderna trial has
Speaker 1: turned out to be successful, when it was seven percent
Speaker 1: or whatever the percentage was they have given. So I
Speaker 1: feel very fortunate at this point. That's great news. And
Speaker 1: I think one of the big issues is where I'm
Speaker 1: sure you're aware, is convincing people that the vaccine. Vaccine
Speaker 1: is safe, Uh, it's efficient, it works, um, and that
Speaker 1: maybe some people in the past who were not supportive
Speaker 1: of vaccines, who are anti access to use the term uh,
Speaker 1: hopefully we can get those folks taken the vaccine. What
Speaker 1: are you doing in Alleghany County as it relates to
Speaker 1: that issue, Well, we're we're trying to convince exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying there. There is a certain segment of society
Speaker 1: that that i'll call them anti vaxers for any vaccine.
Speaker 1: But what we're trying to do is use what I'll
Speaker 1: call influencers. So in certain communities, uh, the people that
Speaker 1: they're gonna listen to, they might not necessarily listen to
Speaker 1: myself as county executive or the mayor or some CEO
Speaker 1: of a company, but maybe they'll listen to the minister
Speaker 1: of their church, or maybe they'll listen to, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the sports stars of the of the of
Speaker 1: the local local team, you know that type of thing,
Speaker 1: a teacher that's uh, you know, very well respected. So
Speaker 1: we're trying to use people in the community who are
Speaker 1: again I'll call them influencers, who can convince people that
Speaker 1: this is for your own good. This is the risk
Speaker 1: of not getting the vaccine far far outweighs the risk
Speaker 1: that you might get what a little bit of a
Speaker 1: reaction with a vaccine. So in your county, in Allegany
Speaker 1: County includes Pittsburgh, UM, talk to us about the deployment
Speaker 1: of the vaccine. What do you know about your area,
Speaker 1: your county. Well, I will tell you right now. We're
Speaker 1: frustrated because UM and I was glad to see yesterday
Speaker 1: President elect Biden come out and say, uh that being
Speaker 1: critical of the current administration to say he would invoke
Speaker 1: the Defense Production Act because I am not happy that
Speaker 1: right now it seems much more slowly being administered that
Speaker 1: that we need to do. If we're going to get
Speaker 1: on the other side of this virus and get our
Speaker 1: economy opened up and get people healthy again and allow
Speaker 1: our seniors to visit their grandchildren, we have got to
Speaker 1: get this vaccine distributed quickly. So if we're talking what
Speaker 1: we've seen over the last two weeks, a million vaccines
Speaker 1: of week, it's gonna take seven years to vaccinate this country.
Speaker 1: That is unacceptable. What do you under What is your
Speaker 1: understanding of how the distribution will in fact take place.
Speaker 1: Does it come from the federal government, do you get
Speaker 1: an allocation from the manufacturer? How is it actually going
Speaker 1: to work. We've actually don't know, And I actually talked
Speaker 1: to the governor. It's supposed to go through the states,
Speaker 1: and I talked to the governor earlier today. Governor wolf
Speaker 1: Spence tremendous and he's trying to get as much vaccine
Speaker 1: as he as he can to distribute here in Pennsylvania. UM.
Speaker 1: Some of it is being going directly from the manufacturer
Speaker 1: to the large health care facilities to do the frontline workers,
Speaker 1: and that certainly makes sense. Those are the folks that
Speaker 1: are exposed every day to patients and they do need
Speaker 1: to be protected. The other route, if you will, is
Speaker 1: going through the big pharmaceutical companies to the nursing homes
Speaker 1: that congregate care facilities. Uh and I understand CVS and
Speaker 1: Walgreens and a couple of big ones are doing that directly.
Speaker 1: And then some of it's going to the state departments
Speaker 1: of health directly, so then they will distribute it to
Speaker 1: counties like mine, Alleghany and all the other counties and
Speaker 1: all the other municipalities here in the state. But it
Speaker 1: is it's not very clear right now what the federal
Speaker 1: government is doing. And again I think it needs to
Speaker 1: be ramped up. It needs to be really you know,
Speaker 1: it's got to be priority number one, almost like we've
Speaker 1: done in wars. You know, you think about back to
Speaker 1: World War Two when you know factories were turned into
Speaker 1: you know, for tanks and g and planes, and we
Speaker 1: need to do the same thing. We are at war
Speaker 1: with a virus and we need to put all of
Speaker 1: our resources into into winning that war and defeating this virus.
Speaker 1: So reach about thirty seconds before the break, what is
Speaker 1: your Do you have an understanding as to when you
Speaker 1: may begin to receive some vaccines? We have received a
Speaker 1: very few and I will tell you we've received like
Speaker 1: a thousand doses, which was really for our frontline workers.
Speaker 1: We run a jail, we run some nursing homes, we
Speaker 1: run some medical examiners, and and and and social workers
Speaker 1: that are out dealing with the homeless, dealing with people
Speaker 1: with COVID. So those folks that are in our employee
Speaker 1: we were able to distribute the first shots uh in
Speaker 1: within the last week, but that is woefully inadequate for
Speaker 1: all of the first responders we have in our municipalities,
Speaker 1: throughout the throughout the community, met express, dental offices, doctors offices, etcetera.
Speaker 1: You know, you got me thinking here as we think
Speaker 1: about getting the vaccine into people's arms, we think about
Speaker 1: back to March, in April and May when there was
Speaker 1: a scramble across the country for PPE and what we
Speaker 1: saw because there was no federal control or federal policy, um,
Speaker 1: we saw states bidding against each other for mass and
Speaker 1: for other PPE is. Are we seeing something similar here
Speaker 1: as it relates to trying to get access to these vaccines?
Speaker 1: I certainly, hope not. It's it's unclear again how the
Speaker 1: distribution channels and the numbers are going. Um again, I'm
Speaker 1: glad to hear that the President, like Biden, has talked
Speaker 1: about instituting the Defense Production Act as soon as he
Speaker 1: gets into office in a couple of weeks. And that's
Speaker 1: what's needed. I mean, there should be massive manufacturer and
Speaker 1: production of this and then massive distribution because until we
Speaker 1: get people vaccinated, you know what they call community heard,
Speaker 1: you know heard, the community immunity, We're not going to
Speaker 1: see our economy open up. People are going to have confidence,
Speaker 1: they're not going to visit their family members, and and
Speaker 1: it just needs to be priority number one. So rich,
Speaker 1: give us a sense of how the pandemic kind of
Speaker 1: rolled through Allegheny County. Just give us a sense of
Speaker 1: kind of how you guys have been dealing with it.
Speaker 1: We actually did very well with it early on through
Speaker 1: through March April. Those early months, our numbers were much
Speaker 1: much lower than other places similar sized urban urban areas
Speaker 1: around the country. But then in late October, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we we we really started the backslide. And really over
Speaker 1: the last couple of months it has been just almost
Speaker 1: a spike that we've never seen. Um, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: as many deaths almost deaths in the month of December
Speaker 1: as we had through the first nine months from from March.
Speaker 1: How are the hospitals holding up there? Because one of
Speaker 1: the things we saw here, certainly in the Greater Metro
Speaker 1: New York area UH and then in other places around
Speaker 1: the country in the second wave was the hospital of
Speaker 1: us just get overwhelmed. And that's really when the problems
Speaker 1: start to occur. Yeah, they haven't been overwhelmed yet, but
Speaker 1: we're reaching capacity and that that's another concern. Um. Again,
Speaker 1: over the last six weeks or so, we have really
Speaker 1: seen a rise in not only hospitalizations, but I see
Speaker 1: you acute care and again O, our fatality rate has
Speaker 1: gone up. And um it is you know, through the
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving and we we don't know exactly what's happened yet
Speaker 1: through the Christmas holidays, but our test numbers have been
Speaker 1: extremely high and our hospitalizations are very, very concerning. And
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh and western Pennsylvania you know a little bit
Speaker 1: about it. We've got a very robust U p m C,
Speaker 1: A h N, a very robust healthcare UH system, and
Speaker 1: even that is being taxed to the limit. Talk about
Speaker 1: the economic impact that you've seen in results from this pandemic.
Speaker 1: Give us some some of the what you're seeing there,
Speaker 1: because we've seen obviously some very very high cloyment numbers nationally,
Speaker 1: jobs claims continue to be very weak. Um. Yes, the
Speaker 1: stock market's going up, but that's not the economy. No.
Speaker 1: And certainly people that are in the hospitality industry have
Speaker 1: been impacted more than anybody are. We had a booming,
Speaker 1: booming restaurant uh in foodie business in in throughout, a
Speaker 1: lot of young people, a lot of viruncy here in
Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh area, and those folks have just been impacted.
Speaker 1: You know, the arts and cultural amenities of which Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: has tremendous, you know, the offer of the symphony or
Speaker 1: sports teams, you know, music, etcetera, have just been decimated. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, things like construction and manufacturing and retail haven't
Speaker 1: been as affected as much, but it really has been
Speaker 1: the restaurants, the hotels, uh, the entertainment venue that have
Speaker 1: just been disproportionately affected. There are the folks that really need, uh,
Speaker 1: the the the the funding in the then the legislation
Speaker 1: that we need you know, Congress to go ahead and
Speaker 1: uh increase, all right, Rich, before we let you go,
Speaker 1: are you Steelers in I am indeed, and you guys
Speaker 1: feeling about it? Feeling pretty good. Well, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: a little kind of week off this week, so they're playing,
Speaker 1: but they're gonna play a lot of the second line
Speaker 1: players and we're getting ready for that first playoff game
Speaker 1: a week from this weekend. Um, and uh, we'll have
Speaker 1: a few fans in hines Field. But uh, if you've
Speaker 1: been around, you know that we we put, we weigh
Speaker 1: those terrible tials and we're excited. Hopefully we'll be waiving
Speaker 1: them at home without you know, a lot of people
Speaker 1: and trying to stay safe. But what we're rooting for
Speaker 1: our stealers. Yes, indeed, all right, Rich, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate your time. Rich fitzgeraldy
Speaker 1: is an executive for Allegheny County that includes Pittsburgh in
Speaker 1: the Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Some challenging times there, like
Speaker 1: we're seeing on a national basis, but again looking for
Speaker 1: that light at the end of the tunnel. Well, as
Speaker 1: we think back to the beginning this pandemic, one of
Speaker 1: the images that we have is cruise ships stranded at
Speaker 1: see sports, not willing to take the people where there
Speaker 1: had been the virus on the ship. Eventually, over a
Speaker 1: long period of time, most of the passengers got off
Speaker 1: the ship got home safely. But how about the people,
Speaker 1: the crew, the people on the ship that work on
Speaker 1: the ship. What was life like for them? How has
Speaker 1: it been for them? There's a fascinating story in the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week this week that goes to that issue.
Speaker 1: Let's bring in Joel Webber. He's the editor Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week on the remote access line from Brooklyn and Austin Carr,
Speaker 1: technology reporter for Bloomberg News. He's on the phone from
Speaker 1: l A. Joel, this is just a compelling story, a
Speaker 1: sad story. Talked to us about it, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: It's it's really a tragic one. Um And the magazine
Speaker 1: has done um I think of just a seminal job
Speaker 1: of covering the cruise industries, which obviously um was a
Speaker 1: really bad story, especially earlier in the year. Um And
Speaker 1: And those stories have largely centered on on passengers and
Speaker 1: the corporate experience. What happened when one of the ships
Speaker 1: in Australia actually let its passengers off and in the
Speaker 1: pandemic basically entered Australia. But Austin, I think in this
Speaker 1: story is uh booke ins all of it with this
Speaker 1: incredible human story UM that largely untold of what it
Speaker 1: was like to be a crew member on these ships.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a tragic story because of the
Speaker 1: suicides that basically happened. And I'll turn that over to
Speaker 1: Austin because it was just an incredible reporting feat UM.
Speaker 1: But also I think was just an incredible uh service
Speaker 1: because these are people who you know, when passengers left,
Speaker 1: like like you said, Paul, Um, the crew members actually
Speaker 1: were stranded and um spent weeks uh basically still on lockdown.
Speaker 1: So so Austin, UM, take us inside your reporting. How
Speaker 1: did you how did you first learn about the topic
Speaker 1: and and where did you know? What? Where did it
Speaker 1: take you? Yeah? And in many ways, these were sort
Speaker 1: of the forgotten workers of the COVID nineteen crisis that
Speaker 1: hit the cruise industry. You had droll as you noted.
Speaker 1: We we did a lot of reporting and a lot
Speaker 1: of the passenger tragedies and how the corporations have been
Speaker 1: hit UM, but tens of thousands of workers if not more,
Speaker 1: we're stuck at sea long after passengers left UH. And
Speaker 1: what we had started exploring was just what the conditions
Speaker 1: were like aboard these ships. UH crew members told us
Speaker 1: that they were left with profound uncertainty around when they
Speaker 1: were going to get home. Their pay was eventually cut
Speaker 1: off when they were moved off duty because there was
Speaker 1: not really any work to do aboard these ships. They
Speaker 1: were confined to small cabins due to the pandemic UM
Speaker 1: and they you know, any time they were let outside,
Speaker 1: it was under very regimented circumstances, specific times when they
Speaker 1: could go get meals, when they could go have a
Speaker 1: cigarette break, they could go get fresh air. And the
Speaker 1: only connection they had to the outside world was through
Speaker 1: a very mediocre Internet connection, which they could use to
Speaker 1: Facebook or WhatsApp with with family and friends. And so
Speaker 1: one of the things we wanted to do was was
Speaker 1: get beyond sort of the ancillary effects of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: which is there are already you know, thousands of infections
Speaker 1: and UH, you know, around a hundred or so death
Speaker 1: stemming from COVID nineteen. But we wanted to zero in
Speaker 1: on the consequences of people being confined to the six
Speaker 1: ended period of isolation, which in many cases resulted in depression, isolation, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately suicide. As we sort of exploring the story Austin,
Speaker 1: I was wondering as I was reading the story, who
Speaker 1: was representing or who was supposed to be representing the
Speaker 1: interests of these workers. In many cases there are unions
Speaker 1: advocating on their behalf. But but let's be clear, these
Speaker 1: are are lower paid workers, often from poor countries. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there was often a lot of attention on
Speaker 1: passengers because they were the ones speaking to Western reporters. Uh,
Speaker 1: they were sharing photos and uh you know, videos from
Speaker 1: inside these cruise ships for the limited time they were
Speaker 1: on there. You've got to think that a lot of
Speaker 1: these passengers were very effected for just being on these
Speaker 1: ships for maybe a couple of weeks, whereas these crew
Speaker 1: members were aboard for months on end. And I think
Speaker 1: the ultimate issue was there wasn't a lot of people
Speaker 1: advocating on their behalf. Um. In certain instances on these ships,
Speaker 1: we did see protest breakout to bring attention to their plight.
Speaker 1: On several Royal Caribbean ships, we saw a hunger strike
Speaker 1: uh stage two for crew members to sort of put
Speaker 1: pressure on the company to get them home. There was
Speaker 1: a protest on another Royal Caribbean ship where they raised
Speaker 1: a banner that that essentially said how many more suicides
Speaker 1: do you need? Again calling attention from the press to
Speaker 1: apply pressure and scrutiny of these cruise industry players to
Speaker 1: sort of get them home. But I think ultimately to
Speaker 1: your point there there isn't a lot of people advocating
Speaker 1: beyond UH unions, UH and and sort of press, but
Speaker 1: there definitely needs to be more attention to this issue.
Speaker 1: Can during the conditions they faced for for extended prolonged
Speaker 1: periods at sea Austin UM, there's some some uh you know,
Speaker 1: really interesting characters in the story, including UM. Joseph Salers
Speaker 1: is really the main UM story that you use as
Speaker 1: the as the vehicle to to talk about the trend.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about UM, about him and his
Speaker 1: family and and sort of where their fight UM to
Speaker 1: basically have his story UM uh talked about more broadly
Speaker 1: currently stands. So Joseph was a cruise ship worker. He'd
Speaker 1: been working for carnival cruise ships since essentially January, and
Speaker 1: he really epitomizes what a lot of these crew members
Speaker 1: went through UM. When the pandemic sort of exploded in March,
Speaker 1: he was moved around to several ships. He was isolated
Speaker 1: in the cabin without a window for for a certain
Speaker 1: period of time. UM. You know. Uh friends of his
Speaker 1: said that, uh, you know, just to go outside. There
Speaker 1: would be specific times that might you know, you might
Speaker 1: only have an hour for breakfast, but it could take
Speaker 1: forty five minutes just to get a coffee because the
Speaker 1: sort of uh food service lines were so understaffed and
Speaker 1: and there's the ships were so crowded. UM. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: after months at sea, UM, he he did end up
Speaker 1: taking his own life. Crew members reported not having seen
Speaker 1: him for several days. He missed the daily required temperature
Speaker 1: checks UM and crew members were sent to check on him,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately he was found um hanged to test And
Speaker 1: what is a very tragic story that we outline in
Speaker 1: the story and ultimately we trace what it's actually like
Speaker 1: for the family to learn at this news and go
Speaker 1: through the process of repat trading their sons to cease
Speaker 1: body and his remains, and to go through the process
Speaker 1: of having him declare dead when he died in international waters.
Speaker 1: To sort of figure out um the sort of true
Speaker 1: story of what happened to their son when it's very
Speaker 1: difficult to sign to to get information out of these
Speaker 1: cruise companies who were not often totally forthcoming about information
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. And so this story is
Speaker 1: both the story of a lot of crew men getting
Speaker 1: home and dealing with mental health issues, but also zeroing
Speaker 1: in on on ones who suffered this ultimate tragedy of
Speaker 1: suicide and how the families have had to deal with
Speaker 1: with the consequences of this difficult repatoration. Yeah, hey, Austin,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for bringing this story to our attention.
Speaker 1: And of course, if you are someone you know as
Speaker 1: having suicidal thoughts, the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is one
Speaker 1: eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. Austin Carr,
Speaker 1: technology reporter for Bloomberg News on the line, Uh, Poe
Speaker 1: mine from l a Intoel Webber, Editor Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: on the remote access line from Brooklyn. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: during this pandemic, I think most of us have become
Speaker 1: or we think we are experts in buying stuff online.
Speaker 1: And maybe a lot more stuff at different types of
Speaker 1: stuff than we did pre pandemic. And the proof is
Speaker 1: in the putty. You look outside to anybody's door, there
Speaker 1: seems to be boxes piling up on a daily basis
Speaker 1: from all over. Let's get a sense of how this infrastructure,
Speaker 1: this e commerce trend is playing. Now we can do
Speaker 1: that with James Thompson. He's a partner by Box Experts.
Speaker 1: Prior he was former business head of Amazon Services. He
Speaker 1: joins us on the phone from Seattle. So, James, boy,
Speaker 1: what it just seems like this pandemic has pulled for
Speaker 1: e commerce trends, end penetration rates by you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of three years. What do you make of it?
Speaker 1: I think it's exciting, it's very exciting. But it's also
Speaker 1: forcing brands and retailers to ask and selves the question
Speaker 1: around how are they going to adapt quickly to remain
Speaker 1: where customers want to buy products. One of the scary
Speaker 1: things that's happened for a lot of companies this year
Speaker 1: is they realized we're not actually set up to help
Speaker 1: customers if they want to buy online. So the questions
Speaker 1: around what does it take to make that transition and
Speaker 1: be in a position where you can support customers whether
Speaker 1: they want to buy in store or buy online. That's
Speaker 1: going to be the store companies making those adjustments, making
Speaker 1: those investments, and getting themselves ready for a world where
Speaker 1: enough consumers are interested in buying online that retailers and
Speaker 1: brands alike need to be ready. Yeah. I'd be shocked
Speaker 1: if if somebody, if a company I was invested, and
Speaker 1: said they didn't have a digital strategy. I'd be a
Speaker 1: seller of that stock. I don't care what business they're in.
Speaker 1: What are you finding in terms of kind of the
Speaker 1: headaches are for retailers here as so much of their
Speaker 1: business has moved online? What are some of the things
Speaker 1: that they're finding problematic? At least a couple of big
Speaker 1: issues for for most retailers. Number One, companies are not
Speaker 1: set up to have real time inventory information available across
Speaker 1: just not not just in store, but across the country.
Speaker 1: If a customer places an order online and the inventory
Speaker 1: is sitting in a local store, does the retailer know
Speaker 1: that or are they drawing inventory from an online fulfillment
Speaker 1: facility that has dedicated inventory just for the online in
Speaker 1: the customer? Uh, there was so much inventory tied up
Speaker 1: in physical stores over over the first few months of COVID,
Speaker 1: but you couldn't access it easily, and so for all
Speaker 1: intentsive purposes, that's dead inventory. So as as retailers start
Speaker 1: thinking about how do they make information about inventory available
Speaker 1: so that a customer can access it whether they're in
Speaker 1: store or whether they're buying online, those types of questions
Speaker 1: are big complicated questions that require software investments, but also
Speaker 1: a change in philosophy. For a lot of retailers. The
Speaker 1: e commerce department is a separate company or a separate
Speaker 1: entity that has its own set of goals. Uh, and
Speaker 1: so you look at how much are we selling in
Speaker 1: the store versus how much are we selling online. From
Speaker 1: a customer's perspective, they don't really care how the accounting works.
Speaker 1: They just want to know that they can go in
Speaker 1: to a store. If it's not available in the store,
Speaker 1: no problem. We know exactly where it is and we'll
Speaker 1: get it sent to you so you can have it.
Speaker 1: I think of stores and or brands like Lego, nice
Speaker 1: vertically integrated company where it doesn't matter whether you're an
Speaker 1: online customer or physical in store customer. It's all one entity.
Speaker 1: You can buy in one channel, you can return in another.
Speaker 1: If you go into one channel and try to buy
Speaker 1: the product and it's not available, no problem, we can
Speaker 1: service it from other channels. That kind of model is
Speaker 1: the model that I think most retailers are going to
Speaker 1: have to move towards fairly quickly so that they don't
Speaker 1: lose customers to retailers that have got this part figured out.
Speaker 1: And that's the omni channel strategy, right, James, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's more than just omni channel. Omni channel for some
Speaker 1: companies means hey, we sell in multiple channels. Well, a
Speaker 1: real omni channel strategy says we sell in multiple channels,
Speaker 1: and we know how to move inventory back and forth
Speaker 1: between those channels. We know how to make it a
Speaker 1: fluid experience so consumers don't have to worry about where
Speaker 1: the products actually sitting today. It will arrive to the
Speaker 1: consumer quickly, whether that's in the store or whether it's
Speaker 1: to their doorstep at their home wherever they choose to
Speaker 1: have a shift, so that that that's issue number one.
Speaker 1: The The other big transition for for companies is gonna
Speaker 1: be around how do you control last mile delivery? If
Speaker 1: you look at what's happened with the massive growth in
Speaker 1: demand for online orders in the past six seven months,
Speaker 1: most retailers rely on the postal service UPS and FedEx
Speaker 1: to get those packages delivered to consumers. Well, those carriers
Speaker 1: haven't been able to keep up with the increase in demand,
Speaker 1: and so that's created a lot of delays both in
Speaker 1: getting products into warehouses but also getting products from warehouses
Speaker 1: delivered to consumers. When I look at what happened, for example,
Speaker 1: with with Costco, you know, back in November, the CEO
Speaker 1: was already saying to consumers, Hey, UPS is UH is
Speaker 1: slow in picking up our packages and getting it to consumers.
Speaker 1: You know, you need to go and download the UPS
Speaker 1: app to figure out when you're actually going to get
Speaker 1: the shipment. Well, that kind of situation was seen across
Speaker 1: many retailers where they relied on these these carriers to
Speaker 1: get the packages to consumers. But quite frankly, it was
Speaker 1: a black access to when it was actually going to
Speaker 1: be received by the consumer. That's not a good experience
Speaker 1: for consumers um and and quite frankly, consumers are going
Speaker 1: to go looking for retailers that can make a promise
Speaker 1: around when a product is gonna be delivered and they
Speaker 1: can actually deliver on it, and that's hard for most
Speaker 1: retailers to do when they don't control the last biel
Speaker 1: distribution themselves. Hey, James, I'm guessing you know that the
Speaker 1: share of e commerce is just really accelerated here, the
Speaker 1: share shift. There's no going back, is there? Well, I
Speaker 1: think consumers still want to do shopping, but when it
Speaker 1: comes to buying, that is to say, when you know
Speaker 1: what it is you want to buy, yeah, going online,
Speaker 1: you get it done quickly, no problem. Consumers will return
Speaker 1: to malls when it's safe to do so, but they'll
Speaker 1: be doing that more to learn about products and to
Speaker 1: be buying things that they may not otherwise have initially
Speaker 1: planned to buy. And that that's okay, that's great. For
Speaker 1: a brand or a retailer that has both a physical
Speaker 1: presence in malls as well as an online presence, they
Speaker 1: need to be prepared to operate physical stores where the
Speaker 1: same store sales may not necessarily continue to increase because
Speaker 1: consumers are going in to learn about products, but because
Speaker 1: of product availability issues, consumers may end up buying the
Speaker 1: products through the online portion of the business. So there's
Speaker 1: a role for both online and for inline, but but
Speaker 1: it's going to be much more obvious. Within six to
Speaker 1: eight months, when we're back we're back at physically visiting
Speaker 1: physical locations, It's going to become more apparent as to
Speaker 1: what the relative role is of each of these different
Speaker 1: types of channels. James, you know, I was thinking back
Speaker 1: to before Christmas, probably late November, early December, you know,
Speaker 1: getting into the busy season. Outside the UPS store in
Speaker 1: my town. Uh, the UPS guy was loading a truck,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a Brown UPS truck, it was an
Speaker 1: Avis truck. And he was telling me the reason he
Speaker 1: was doing that is because they ran out of UPS trucks.
Speaker 1: Are these companies like, are they not able to keep
Speaker 1: up with this e commerce growth we're seeing nationally every
Speaker 1: Q four, Each of these shipping companies will often find
Speaker 1: additional trucks to be able to help with some of that. Oh, James,
Speaker 1: let me clear that up. I can say one more thing.
Speaker 1: I asked him about that, and he said, yet it
Speaker 1: usually we just have to go to these backup trucks
Speaker 1: during the holiday season. But we've been doing it all
Speaker 1: years since March. Mm hmm. Well, but back to something
Speaker 1: I said the first part of our discussion, these these
Speaker 1: companies postal Service, ups FedEx. You know, they haven't been
Speaker 1: able to grow as fast as as needed to support
Speaker 1: all the extra demand, and so they're growing as fast
Speaker 1: as they can, hiring people as fast as they can,
Speaker 1: grabbing trucks from here and there as fast as they can.
Speaker 1: But it's still nowhere near enough. And so as we
Speaker 1: start to think about what's going to happen in the
Speaker 1: next year if all this incremental e commerce demand is
Speaker 1: here to stay, these companies have to make a very
Speaker 1: important decision around are they prepared to invest in growth
Speaker 1: to keep up with this. If you look at what's
Speaker 1: happy with Amazon, Amazon made the decision over three years
Speaker 1: ago and said, we can see the future and the
Speaker 1: future doesn't look good if we were relying on companies
Speaker 1: like ups anthed X and the postal Service to grow
Speaker 1: with us. And so companies like Amazon have made significant
Speaker 1: investments themselves in last mile capabilities Target bought Shipped earlier
Speaker 1: this year because they too see that they need to
Speaker 1: own some of the last male logistics. These are very
Speaker 1: important decisions and very forward looking in terms of if
Speaker 1: consumers are going to be making more and more purchases
Speaker 1: online and last monal logistics is being outsourced somebody else.
Speaker 1: That's not a good situation if in fact e commerce
Speaker 1: grows faster than these logistics companies can support. So when
Speaker 1: you look at what's happened with Amazon and Q four,
Speaker 1: I've seen estimates that suggest that on Prime orders that
Speaker 1: Amazon was shipping here in the US, they were actually
Speaker 1: handling upwards of seventy five of all of the orders themselves,
Speaker 1: getting it from the Amazon fulfillment centers on to trucks
Speaker 1: or planes that they control, onto trucks in your local city,
Speaker 1: delivering it to your home orders. That's that's capacity that
Speaker 1: UPS and well, not fed X because Amazon doesn't work
Speaker 1: with fed X, but the UPS and the postal service.
Speaker 1: You know that that's capacity that they weren't being asked
Speaker 1: to support because Amazon said, we can't deliver on our
Speaker 1: Prime promise if we rely on companies that aren't growing
Speaker 1: fast enough and don't have enough capacity to support us.
Speaker 1: And James, that brings up a good point. You know,
Speaker 1: when you go out on the highways and byways, I'm
Speaker 1: just shocked at the number of Amazon trucks. You know,
Speaker 1: the big eighteen wheel is all the way down to
Speaker 1: the smaller vans. For the last mile. Literally, it seems like,
Speaker 1: you know, Amazon has become the late nation's largest trucking company.
Speaker 1: So they currently have over thirty thousand transport trucks on
Speaker 1: the road that they own. And when you when you
Speaker 1: drive up and down the East Coast Corridor and you
Speaker 1: look at who's actually on the road and you start
Speaker 1: counting Amazon trucks versus UPS trucks, you'll find that there's
Speaker 1: probably ten to twelve times as many Amazon trucks because
Speaker 1: you'll see UPS trucks. And that's Amazon saying we're going
Speaker 1: to control moving products from warehouses, distorting facilities, and ultimately
Speaker 1: to consumers homes. We can't rely on someone else to
Speaker 1: be able to to manage this. So Amazon's putting a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure not just on being able to buy
Speaker 1: trucks and so on, but also on labor that's going
Speaker 1: to support all the movement of these products. Amazon continues
Speaker 1: to rent more and more planes for their own primaier capabilities,
Speaker 1: again moving full cargo planes back and forth. Rather than
Speaker 1: saying we're going to rely on cargo space that we
Speaker 1: can use on passenger flights that pretty much have well
Speaker 1: dropped off significant this year, We're not going to rely
Speaker 1: on that. We're just gonna have our own planes that
Speaker 1: we can fill, thank you very much, and fly between
Speaker 1: big hubs, ensuring the product can move quickly. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, Amazon's number one focus is how
Speaker 1: do we continue to grow while still delivering on this
Speaker 1: prime promise. Just because there's twice as many customers that
Speaker 1: want our products doesn't mean that we have to slow
Speaker 1: down on being able to get customers their packages quickly.
Speaker 1: Amazon has not been able to grow as quickly as
Speaker 1: they want, and so the prime promise has slipped a
Speaker 1: little bit from two days to three or four or
Speaker 1: five days, depending on where you were in two four um.
Speaker 1: But you know Amazon is going to keep making those
Speaker 1: investments because they can see that the other logistics companies
Speaker 1: are not going to be able to grow uh in
Speaker 1: line with what Amazon needs. Hey James, about thirty seconds left.
Speaker 1: I'd love to get your thoughts on the grocery business
Speaker 1: for Amazon. Is there a future there? The grocery business
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be profitable for Amazon. The grocery business
Speaker 1: is really about Amazon continuing to engage with consumers and
Speaker 1: keep Amazon top of mind. If you think of your
Speaker 1: wallet is having ten different types of purchases you have
Speaker 1: to make each each week. At least a couple of
Speaker 1: those are grocery related. And Amazon needs to continue need
Speaker 1: to be relevant in all parts of your wallet. And
Speaker 1: they certainly are, judging by my credit card. Bill James Thompson,
Speaker 1: partner by Box Experts, also a former business head of
Speaker 1: Amazon Services. We appreciate your thoughts. He was joining joined
Speaker 1: us on the phone from Seattle, giving us the latest
Speaker 1: on Amazon. As you think about it again, you go
Speaker 1: out on the highways and by ways, and I am
Speaker 1: just struck by how many trucks we are seeing from Amazon.
Speaker 1: Amazon owned and branded trucks. They're just everywhere. So they
Speaker 1: are taking matters into their own hands. Well, when we
Speaker 1: started getting the good news on the vaccine front, one
Speaker 1: of the numbers that kind of stuck in my head
Speaker 1: was twenty million people will get the vaccination, would get
Speaker 1: the vaccine by the end of looks like we're gonna
Speaker 1: be woefully short of that number. Let's dive into kind
Speaker 1: of what's uh driving those issues. Drew Armstrong, he's a
Speaker 1: team leader for US Healthcare for Bloomberg News. He joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone from Atlanta. So, Drew, there's a
Speaker 1: story in the terminals. On the terminal today vaccinations are
Speaker 1: running about two hundred thousand dollars a day, but that's
Speaker 1: far short of what warp speed promise. What's going on? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so about two hundred vaccinations being done a day. I
Speaker 1: think right now we're seeing the combined effects of some
Speaker 1: vaccines that have rather complex logistics to ship, uh, store,
Speaker 1: and then administer UM. The early start to this that
Speaker 1: is still very focused on the group of frontline help
Speaker 1: providers and folks who reside in long term and and
Speaker 1: work in long term care homes or nursing homes, and
Speaker 1: you know, frankly just not quite the as fast as
Speaker 1: expected in the readiness that's needed to do the type
Speaker 1: of max vaccine mass vaccination UM that uh you know
Speaker 1: it is being called for here. I think you know,
Speaker 1: right now the U s pace is somewhere around two
Speaker 1: hundred thousand UH vaccinations a day. You know, what you
Speaker 1: really should be seeing UM to reach twenty million is
Speaker 1: close to a million a day on average since the
Speaker 1: approval or sorry it's the authorization of the Fiser vaccine,
Speaker 1: and it's just nowhere close to that. Drew we earlier
Speaker 1: in the show, we're speaking to the County executive for
Speaker 1: Alleganting County of Pennsylvania that includes Pittsburgh, and he was
Speaker 1: extraordinarily frustrated on the lack of coordination and information from
Speaker 1: the federal government. What role in theory should the federal
Speaker 1: government be doing here to help with the distribution of
Speaker 1: these vaccines? You know, I think that's a fantastically good question. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we have seen is that
Speaker 1: a number of hold ups in UH funding for the
Speaker 1: CDC that was meant to be dispersed the states to
Speaker 1: help them with exactly that. Um. Some of that has
Speaker 1: rolled out over the last two weeks. But the new
Speaker 1: stimulus bill UM and Economic really bill contains about eight
Speaker 1: billion dollars in CBC funding, UM, the majority of which
Speaker 1: is going to go to the states, and probably not
Speaker 1: a moment too late, not a moment too soon. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a real debate about what is the
Speaker 1: federal government's role here. UM. I think you will see
Speaker 1: the Biden administration probably try to take a much more
Speaker 1: active role in assisting states and communicating from above what's
Speaker 1: going on here. On President Trump earlier today and late
Speaker 1: last night, facing some of the news headlines crossing that
Speaker 1: this role out was not going as fast as expected.
Speaker 1: Basically said it's the States deal. Um, it's up to
Speaker 1: them to go and do this. He was very very
Speaker 1: um clear about. But the fact that you know, we
Speaker 1: shift do the vaccines and you know, go and get
Speaker 1: this done, um on your own. So um, I I
Speaker 1: think that you know, you clearly see a dispute about
Speaker 1: who should be leading this effort and the consequences of
Speaker 1: that are the are the number of people who are
Speaker 1: being vaccinated being rather low? So true. President Biden yesterday
Speaker 1: in a pandemic comments uh said one million people will
Speaker 1: be backed will get the vaccination in the first one
Speaker 1: days of his administration as she talked to folks in
Speaker 1: the healthcare industry and the supply chain. Is that doable?
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good question. Right now, Um,
Speaker 1: you are seeing vaccination point essentially in hospitals and um
Speaker 1: increasingly in nursing homes and long term care settings. Those
Speaker 1: are you know, institutional settings where presumably it is relatively
Speaker 1: easy to line people up because they all work there
Speaker 1: or live there and say okay, we're gonna do your vaccination.
Speaker 1: It's also a very small group where this is going
Speaker 1: to start getting bigger is when you bring on vaccinations
Speaker 1: at workplaces, at pharmacies around the country and you really
Speaker 1: really expand that and use the tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: potential vaccination site UM in the same way that we
Speaker 1: do with testing. I mean, remember, we can perform a
Speaker 1: huge volume of testing in this country right now using
Speaker 1: a distributed healthcare network UM. It's very easy to imagine
Speaker 1: if you replace the vaccination infrastructure on top of the
Speaker 1: what you see in the testing network, you can do
Speaker 1: certainly a lot of vaccination. But right now it is
Speaker 1: just not happening, and it remains to be seen what
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks hold idre maybe thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: Where is the bottleneck? Have we identified the bottleneck in
Speaker 1: this process? You know, I think right now, and the
Speaker 1: bottleneck is probably about five different little bottlenecks. Okay, some
Speaker 1: states they're not getting enough, others that they're not moving
Speaker 1: fast enough. It's a really really complex um situation, which
Speaker 1: is probably part of the problem. That complexity. YTRI, thanks
Speaker 1: so much again for your reporting. We appreciate it. Drew Armstrong,
Speaker 1: team leader for US Healthcare at Bloomberg News, joining us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Atlanta. ROC Journal yeah, but you
Speaker 1: let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no, who's home? Honey? Please,
Speaker 1: I'll do the riding revels. I want to drive ball,
Speaker 1: just drive baby, the question try this is the drive
Speaker 1: to the globe. Thanks. We'll drying us on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk e t s. This is just
Speaker 1: an extraordinary story that just keeps on going. The growth
Speaker 1: in this space is something you know, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: very frequently in my third year career. Uh, let's get
Speaker 1: an update. We can do that with Ed Rosenberg. He's
Speaker 1: head of exchange traded funds at American Century Investments. These
Speaker 1: guys are big billion dollars under management. He joins us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Chicago. Ed, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us here. I always love to start talking about
Speaker 1: e t f s to get the latest on fund
Speaker 1: flows into e t f Did the pandemic twenty year
Speaker 1: did that kind of put any kind of did that
Speaker 1: disrupt the fun flow story that we've seen in e
Speaker 1: t fs? So thank you for having me, and uh
Speaker 1: no it really didn't. I mean twenty this year has
Speaker 1: been an amazing and interesting year all around, and as
Speaker 1: most people want to put it to bed, but in
Speaker 1: the e t F industry flows your near record highs.
Speaker 1: I mean, two thousand seventeen was the record year um
Speaker 1: for four seventy six bill and inflows, and we're right
Speaker 1: there before we get to year end, we're approaching we
Speaker 1: might even be passing that last numbers. I pulled it
Speaker 1: right before Christmas and we're at four fifty eight. I've
Speaker 1: seen things that's hey, we're getting closer to about five
Speaker 1: billion and flows for a record year. So ets have
Speaker 1: not been affected. What has been affected was where the
Speaker 1: money is going, which has changed several times throughout the year.
Speaker 1: But overall, the money just keeps going into E t s.
Speaker 1: All right, And I give us the reasons why for
Speaker 1: those of us that aren't that that grew up in
Speaker 1: the mutual fund world, and UH would have to go
Speaker 1: see American Century that the fund managers there and the
Speaker 1: fund managers at Fidelity. When else is sell side analysts
Speaker 1: tell us about the relative merits of an et F
Speaker 1: versus say a mutual fund. Yeah, absolutely, and remember I
Speaker 1: grew up on the mutual fund side. It's well back
Speaker 1: and okay, so um, I mean, if you think of
Speaker 1: what an ETF offers, right, the first and the biggest
Speaker 1: thing is flexibility. So you know, on when you look
Speaker 1: at those days in mar where the markets were going
Speaker 1: down or maybe they were bouncing around. Within e t F,
Speaker 1: you can choose your time of day. You can't do
Speaker 1: that with the mutual fund. It's always going to be
Speaker 1: the four o'clock close, no matter what time you call
Speaker 1: it in. So that's one aspect. The other aspect with
Speaker 1: e T s is there's there's the potential to be
Speaker 1: much more tax efficient. Well I think, and I don't
Speaker 1: have the numbers exactly for mutual funds and how many
Speaker 1: pay capital gains. Let's say it's about six of all
Speaker 1: equity mutual funds pay capital gain, whereas if you look
Speaker 1: at the T s, the numbers below ten and so
Speaker 1: E T s are more tax efficient in the long
Speaker 1: term for investors. And then the other thing that's historically
Speaker 1: been there is ets tend to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more price sensitive, so they tend to be a little
Speaker 1: cheaper in times. You'll see some of the newer ETFs
Speaker 1: that are coming out, especially the active ones on par
Speaker 1: if there's mutual fund counterparts, but even some of those
Speaker 1: are a few basis points cheaper, So there can be
Speaker 1: a cost savings with e t s as well. And
Speaker 1: I think those three points have led e t s
Speaker 1: just to become, um within the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: more favored as a structure and a rapper for people
Speaker 1: because it creates flexibility if they just didn't have before.
Speaker 1: And are these primarily retail oriented? Is this a retail
Speaker 1: oriented product versus institutionals buying into this? Not at all?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it depending on the product type
Speaker 1: you look at. You know, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the institutions have gravitated towards e t s and the
Speaker 1: basic indexes because it's something you know, whether you're a
Speaker 1: pension or whether you know you're any other type of institution,
Speaker 1: you manage towards the benchmark. And if you can find
Speaker 1: an e t F relatively cheaply that is tied to
Speaker 1: that benchmark, why wouldn't you use it? What types of Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, how many e t f s are
Speaker 1: there out there? Rough? There's so I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: a rough estimate. There's arounds in the US today, um,
Speaker 1: And I know that number seems big, but if you
Speaker 1: compare it to the number of mutual funds you're talking
Speaker 1: about funds, so still much smaller. And what are some
Speaker 1: of the types of e t s that are being
Speaker 1: launched these days? Presumably all this fresh capital coming into
Speaker 1: the sector, I'm guessing just that provides incentives for you know,
Speaker 1: different types of e t F to be created. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does. Has been the most in looked interesting year
Speaker 1: in ets, and I've been in ats for the last
Speaker 1: fifteen years, UM. And what makes it so interesting is
Speaker 1: we saw this was the first time that active launched
Speaker 1: as active et s outpaced index ets. If you think
Speaker 1: of what e t f s have been known for,
Speaker 1: they've always been known as index products, and that tide
Speaker 1: has shifted dramatically in the other thing that we saw
Speaker 1: this year was the advent of the first what we
Speaker 1: call semi transparent UM. I know some of your colleagues
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg called them ants active non transparent ets and
Speaker 1: they saw they were passed by the SEC in late
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen and they launched in two thousand twenty.
Speaker 1: And there's been five different types of those that launched
Speaker 1: this year where they don't disclose the holdings every day,
Speaker 1: and those ETFs alone are pushing about so far. I've
Speaker 1: pushed and brought in about seven hundred million dollars year
Speaker 1: to date, and we launched the first one back in
Speaker 1: late March, so they haven't been around that long and
Speaker 1: they've already attracted that much money. And what's the relative
Speaker 1: attractiveness of that type of structure. So in they e
Speaker 1: t F landscape, there wasn't these types of products and
Speaker 1: a lot of the products that have launched and using
Speaker 1: ours for example. So I'm just going to give an
Speaker 1: example of Focus Dynamic Growth, which is out there. It's
Speaker 1: a very concentrated portfolio, call it fifty holdings. That type
Speaker 1: of product really didn't exist in the landscape. There were
Speaker 1: a few, but now you'll see active managers who want
Speaker 1: to launch something that is more concentrated, that puts forward
Speaker 1: a more alpha generating potential, and the ETF landscape didn't
Speaker 1: have that before. Out of those products, maybe only a
Speaker 1: few did that. And you're going to see a lot
Speaker 1: more offerings from a lot of the bigger firms doing
Speaker 1: this as we go forward, especially into so any themes
Speaker 1: you have for it relates to the e t F sector, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting. So just so you know,
Speaker 1: the last three months everyone was like a year of
Speaker 1: growth until the last three months, and everyone decided to
Speaker 1: investate value and make that switch and so, and I've
Speaker 1: heard that on your your radio show before, and so
Speaker 1: now I think what you're going to see is people
Speaker 1: looking for places where they didn't necessarily think about it before. One.
Speaker 1: We may have new tax plans coming in right depending
Speaker 1: on what happens January, that may cause people to use
Speaker 1: e t f s even more because they need to
Speaker 1: be more tax advantageous in the past. But I really
Speaker 1: think you're going to see investors start looking to add
Speaker 1: alpha to their portfolio, especially if as most people are
Speaker 1: thinking sort of a calmer, flatter market as we go forward, Well,
Speaker 1: let's help calmer, but ladder, But realistically that's what they're
Speaker 1: looking for. And I think you're gonna look for places
Speaker 1: where you can add alpha potentially and looking for these
Speaker 1: active portfolios. I think you're going to see more and
Speaker 1: more of that as time goes on. Hey, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. We always appreciating your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the e t F business. Fascinating. Ed Rosenberg, head of
Speaker 1: exchange traded funds at American Century, on the phone from
Speaker 1: Chicago talking about the e t F It might be
Speaker 1: maybe on track for a record inflow year yet again
Speaker 1: for e t f s. Thanks so much for listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or at Bloomberg dot com, and be sure to check
Speaker 1: out our daily radio show at two pm Eastern on
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