WEBVTT - Why COVID-19 Vaccinations Run Far Short of ‘Warp Speed’ 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.840 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. If you 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.280 can download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.800 dot com. You can also listen to our radio show 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.640 at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and be sort 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.040 of watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.720 As we think about where we are in this pandemic 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.640 and the vaccines, um, you know, we've moved from the 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.839 science stage. Can the scientists figure this out? And the 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.280 answer has been a resounding yes. Such extraordinary work done 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.600 by many people around the world. Now we're down to 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.840 the supply chain, the manufacturing, the distribution, getting it into 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.920 people's arms. Uh, and that is going to be a 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:49.959 challenge in and of itself. Top us kind of walk 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.559 through that. We welcome Rich Fitzgerald. He's an executive at 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.600 Allegheny County. He's located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Rich, thanks so 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.680 much for joining us here. I understand that you re 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.520 eaved the are you participated in the MODERNA phase three trial? 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.960 Tell us a little bit about about that. I did, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.840 you know? It's kind the executive we we obviously run 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.440 the health department for for the second biggest county here 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.479 in Pennsylvania, where Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is located in and back 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.720 in the summer, our health department director, you know, kind 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.480 of asked me if I wanted to be part of 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.160 a trial vaccine trial. And I'm not a medical person, 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.400 so I was very very reluctant, as as you can imagine, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.520 but she kind of convinced me. And I have a 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.640 wife who's a pharmacist, so that kind of helped me 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.080 a little bit too. So I went through all the 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.880 questionnaire do you have allergies, do you have medical you 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.240 know what kind of medication, your age, who you're on, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.200 and all that kind of stuff. I ended up getting 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:45.000 the first shot back in September, early September, UM, and 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.360 then four weeks later you're scheduled for the second shot. UM. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.560 I didn't know they don't tell you if you're getting 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.280 the placebo or the vaccine, so you're in a blinded trial. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.320 But they did tell me before I got the second shot, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.280 that I might get these certain symptoms of a bit 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.120 of a fever, a little bit of achiness, you might 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.560 have a headache, etcetera. I ultimately I did get the symptoms. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.240 They lasted about twelve hours. They were extremely mild. So 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.160 I feel very fortunate. And then I find out I 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.840 guess it was in November that the Maderna trial has 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.800 turned out to be successful, when it was seven percent 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.400 or whatever the percentage was they have given. So I 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.440 feel very fortunate at this point. That's great news. And 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.160 I think one of the big issues is where I'm 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.359 sure you're aware, is convincing people that the vaccine. Vaccine 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:33.079 is safe, Uh, it's efficient, it works, um, and that 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.000 maybe some people in the past who were not supportive 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.720 of vaccines, who are anti access to use the term uh, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.480 hopefully we can get those folks taken the vaccine. What 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.000 are you doing in Alleghany County as it relates to 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.640 that issue, Well, we're we're trying to convince exactly what 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.000 you're saying there. There is a certain segment of society 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.200 that that i'll call them anti vaxers for any vaccine. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.480 But what we're trying to do is use what I'll 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.959 call influencers. So in certain communities, uh, the people that 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.320 they're gonna listen to, they might not necessarily listen to 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.480 myself as county executive or the mayor or some CEO 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.400 of a company, but maybe they'll listen to the minister 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.720 of their church, or maybe they'll listen to, you know, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.600 one of the sports stars of the of the of 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:15.960 the local local team, you know that type of thing, 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.200 a teacher that's uh, you know, very well respected. So 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.120 we're trying to use people in the community who are 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.680 again I'll call them influencers, who can convince people that 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.200 this is for your own good. This is the risk 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.359 of not getting the vaccine far far outweighs the risk 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.560 that you might get what a little bit of a 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.920 reaction with a vaccine. So in your county, in Allegany 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.080 County includes Pittsburgh, UM, talk to us about the deployment 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.480 of the vaccine. What do you know about your area, 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.080 your county. Well, I will tell you right now. We're 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.840 frustrated because UM and I was glad to see yesterday 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.720 President elect Biden come out and say, uh that being 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.680 critical of the current administration to say he would invoke 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.920 the Defense Production Act because I am not happy that 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:09.160 right now it seems much more slowly being administered that 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.440 that we need to do. If we're going to get 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.960 on the other side of this virus and get our 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.000 economy opened up and get people healthy again and allow 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.279 our seniors to visit their grandchildren, we have got to 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.880 get this vaccine distributed quickly. So if we're talking what 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.240 we've seen over the last two weeks, a million vaccines 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:32.480 of week, it's gonna take seven years to vaccinate this country. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.720 That is unacceptable. What do you under What is your 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:40.080 understanding of how the distribution will in fact take place. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.760 Does it come from the federal government, do you get 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.599 an allocation from the manufacturer? How is it actually going 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.680 to work. We've actually don't know, And I actually talked 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.040 to the governor. It's supposed to go through the states, 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.520 and I talked to the governor earlier today. Governor wolf 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.520 Spence tremendous and he's trying to get as much vaccine 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.720 as he as he can to distribute here in Pennsylvania. UM. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.159 Some of it is being going directly from the manufacturer 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.240 to the large health care facilities to do the frontline workers, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.359 and that certainly makes sense. Those are the folks that 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.400 are exposed every day to patients and they do need 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.760 to be protected. The other route, if you will, is 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.440 going through the big pharmaceutical companies to the nursing homes 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.320 that congregate care facilities. Uh and I understand CVS and 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.800 Walgreens and a couple of big ones are doing that directly. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.320 And then some of it's going to the state departments 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.560 of health directly, so then they will distribute it to 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.760 counties like mine, Alleghany and all the other counties and 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.719 all the other municipalities here in the state. But it 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.400 is it's not very clear right now what the federal 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.719 government is doing. And again I think it needs to 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.600 be ramped up. It needs to be really you know, 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.039 it's got to be priority number one, almost like we've 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.520 done in wars. You know, you think about back to 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.200 World War Two when you know factories were turned into 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.040 you know, for tanks and g and planes, and we 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.039 need to do the same thing. We are at war 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.919 with a virus and we need to put all of 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.680 our resources into into winning that war and defeating this virus. 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.120 So reach about thirty seconds before the break, what is 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.800 your Do you have an understanding as to when you 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.760 may begin to receive some vaccines? We have received a 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.839 very few and I will tell you we've received like 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.640 a thousand doses, which was really for our frontline workers. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.359 We run a jail, we run some nursing homes, we 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.200 run some medical examiners, and and and and social workers 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.400 that are out dealing with the homeless, dealing with people 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.120 with COVID. So those folks that are in our employee 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.400 we were able to distribute the first shots uh in 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.279 within the last week, but that is woefully inadequate for 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.520 all of the first responders we have in our municipalities, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.480 throughout the throughout the community, met express, dental offices, doctors offices, etcetera. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.880 You know, you got me thinking here as we think 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:01.360 about getting the vaccine into people's arms, we think about 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.160 back to March, in April and May when there was 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.040 a scramble across the country for PPE and what we 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:13.760 saw because there was no federal control or federal policy, um, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.680 we saw states bidding against each other for mass and 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.800 for other PPE is. Are we seeing something similar here 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.800 as it relates to trying to get access to these vaccines? 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.320 I certainly, hope not. It's it's unclear again how the 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.960 distribution channels and the numbers are going. Um again, I'm 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.559 glad to hear that the President, like Biden, has talked 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.200 about instituting the Defense Production Act as soon as he 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.640 gets into office in a couple of weeks. And that's 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:45.760 what's needed. I mean, there should be massive manufacturer and 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:50.200 production of this and then massive distribution because until we 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.080 get people vaccinated, you know what they call community heard, 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.040 you know heard, the community immunity, We're not going to 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.600 see our economy open up. People are going to have confidence, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.120 they're not going to visit their family members, and and 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.400 it just needs to be priority number one. So rich, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.520 give us a sense of how the pandemic kind of 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.600 rolled through Allegheny County. Just give us a sense of 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.720 kind of how you guys have been dealing with it. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.280 We actually did very well with it early on through 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.920 through March April. Those early months, our numbers were much 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:27.920 much lower than other places similar sized urban urban areas 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.240 around the country. But then in late October, um, you know, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.480 we we we really started the backslide. And really over 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.040 the last couple of months it has been just almost 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.320 a spike that we've never seen. Um, we're gonna have 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.199 as many deaths almost deaths in the month of December 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.199 as we had through the first nine months from from March. 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:52.719 How are the hospitals holding up there? Because one of 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.079 the things we saw here, certainly in the Greater Metro 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.880 New York area UH and then in other places around 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.040 the country in the second wave was the hospital of 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.840 us just get overwhelmed. And that's really when the problems 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.000 start to occur. Yeah, they haven't been overwhelmed yet, but 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.800 we're reaching capacity and that that's another concern. Um. Again, 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.360 over the last six weeks or so, we have really 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.840 seen a rise in not only hospitalizations, but I see 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.560 you acute care and again O, our fatality rate has 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.840 gone up. And um it is you know, through the 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.400 Thanksgiving and we we don't know exactly what's happened yet 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.559 through the Christmas holidays, but our test numbers have been 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.480 extremely high and our hospitalizations are very, very concerning. And 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.920 in Pittsburgh and western Pennsylvania you know a little bit 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.480 about it. We've got a very robust U p m C, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.280 A h N, a very robust healthcare UH system, and 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.200 even that is being taxed to the limit. Talk about 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.319 the economic impact that you've seen in results from this pandemic. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.280 Give us some some of the what you're seeing there, 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.319 because we've seen obviously some very very high cloyment numbers nationally, 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.800 jobs claims continue to be very weak. Um. Yes, the 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.480 stock market's going up, but that's not the economy. No. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.800 And certainly people that are in the hospitality industry have 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.600 been impacted more than anybody are. We had a booming, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:18.280 booming restaurant uh in foodie business in in throughout, a 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.520 lot of young people, a lot of viruncy here in 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.800 the Pittsburgh area, and those folks have just been impacted. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.120 You know, the arts and cultural amenities of which Pittsburgh 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.559 has tremendous, you know, the offer of the symphony or 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:34.040 sports teams, you know, music, etcetera, have just been decimated. Um. 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.560 You know, things like construction and manufacturing and retail haven't 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.040 been as affected as much, but it really has been 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.040 the restaurants, the hotels, uh, the entertainment venue that have 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.400 just been disproportionately affected. There are the folks that really need, uh, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.520 the the the the funding in the then the legislation 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.320 that we need you know, Congress to go ahead and 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.240 uh increase, all right, Rich, before we let you go, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.720 are you Steelers in I am indeed, and you guys 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.160 feeling about it? Feeling pretty good. Well, we're gonna have 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.559 a little kind of week off this week, so they're playing, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.680 but they're gonna play a lot of the second line 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.800 players and we're getting ready for that first playoff game 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.360 a week from this weekend. Um, and uh, we'll have 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.400 a few fans in hines Field. But uh, if you've 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.920 been around, you know that we we put, we weigh 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.080 those terrible tials and we're excited. Hopefully we'll be waiving 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.560 them at home without you know, a lot of people 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.400 and trying to stay safe. But what we're rooting for 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.640 our stealers. Yes, indeed, all right, Rich, thanks so much 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.880 for joining us. We really appreciate your time. Rich fitzgeraldy 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.320 is an executive for Allegheny County that includes Pittsburgh in 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.880 the Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Some challenging times there, like 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.040 we're seeing on a national basis, but again looking for 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:48.679 that light at the end of the tunnel. Well, as 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.960 we think back to the beginning this pandemic, one of 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.400 the images that we have is cruise ships stranded at 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.439 see sports, not willing to take the people where there 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.920 had been the virus on the ship. Eventually, over a 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.120 long period of time, most of the passengers got off 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.840 the ship got home safely. But how about the people, 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.160 the crew, the people on the ship that work on 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.360 the ship. What was life like for them? How has 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.040 it been for them? There's a fascinating story in the 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.360 Bloomberg Business Week this week that goes to that issue. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.840 Let's bring in Joel Webber. He's the editor Bloomberg Business 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.720 Week on the remote access line from Brooklyn and Austin Carr, 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.680 technology reporter for Bloomberg News. He's on the phone from 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.480 l A. Joel, this is just a compelling story, a 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.240 sad story. Talked to us about it, Yeah, it is. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.760 It's it's really a tragic one. Um And the magazine 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.920 has done um I think of just a seminal job 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:46.120 of covering the cruise industries, which obviously um was a 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.200 really bad story, especially earlier in the year. Um And 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.360 And those stories have largely centered on on passengers and 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.480 the corporate experience. What happened when one of the ships 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.960 in Australia actually let its passengers off and in the 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:08.120 pandemic basically entered Australia. But Austin, I think in this 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.640 story is uh booke ins all of it with this 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:16.560 incredible human story UM that largely untold of what it 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.679 was like to be a crew member on these ships. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.840 And you know, it's a tragic story because of the 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:29.120 suicides that basically happened. And I'll turn that over to 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:34.800 Austin because it was just an incredible reporting feat UM. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.440 But also I think was just an incredible uh service 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.800 because these are people who you know, when passengers left, 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.520 like like you said, Paul, Um, the crew members actually 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:51.160 were stranded and um spent weeks uh basically still on lockdown. 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.679 So so Austin, UM, take us inside your reporting. How 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.840 did you how did you first learn about the topic 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.720 and and where did you know? What? Where did it 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.640 take you? Yeah? And in many ways, these were sort 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:07.079 of the forgotten workers of the COVID nineteen crisis that 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.960 hit the cruise industry. You had droll as you noted. 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:11.560 We we did a lot of reporting and a lot 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.480 of the passenger tragedies and how the corporations have been 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.840 hit UM, but tens of thousands of workers if not more, 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.720 we're stuck at sea long after passengers left UH. And 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.600 what we had started exploring was just what the conditions 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.920 were like aboard these ships. UH crew members told us 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.640 that they were left with profound uncertainty around when they 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.520 were going to get home. Their pay was eventually cut 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.920 off when they were moved off duty because there was 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.560 not really any work to do aboard these ships. They 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.840 were confined to small cabins due to the pandemic UM 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.480 and they you know, any time they were let outside, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.880 it was under very regimented circumstances, specific times when they 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.960 could go get meals, when they could go have a 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.160 cigarette break, they could go get fresh air. And the 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.480 only connection they had to the outside world was through 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.240 a very mediocre Internet connection, which they could use to 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.680 Facebook or WhatsApp with with family and friends. And so 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.680 one of the things we wanted to do was was 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.520 get beyond sort of the ancillary effects of the pandemic, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.960 which is there are already you know, thousands of infections 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.680 and UH, you know, around a hundred or so death 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.440 stemming from COVID nineteen. But we wanted to zero in 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.080 on the consequences of people being confined to the six 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:28.040 ended period of isolation, which in many cases resulted in depression, isolation, anxiety, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:34.000 and unfortunately suicide. As we sort of exploring the story Austin, 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.600 I was wondering as I was reading the story, who 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.880 was representing or who was supposed to be representing the 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:44.520 interests of these workers. In many cases there are unions 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.640 advocating on their behalf. But but let's be clear, these 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:53.400 are are lower paid workers, often from poor countries. Um. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.560 You know, there was often a lot of attention on 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.120 passengers because they were the ones speaking to Western reporters. Uh, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.680 they were sharing photos and uh you know, videos from 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.200 inside these cruise ships for the limited time they were 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:06.840 on there. You've got to think that a lot of 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.960 these passengers were very effected for just being on these 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.600 ships for maybe a couple of weeks, whereas these crew 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.880 members were aboard for months on end. And I think 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:17.800 the ultimate issue was there wasn't a lot of people 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.840 advocating on their behalf. Um. In certain instances on these ships, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.040 we did see protest breakout to bring attention to their plight. 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.400 On several Royal Caribbean ships, we saw a hunger strike 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.960 uh stage two for crew members to sort of put 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.760 pressure on the company to get them home. There was 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.680 a protest on another Royal Caribbean ship where they raised 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.600 a banner that that essentially said how many more suicides 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.320 do you need? Again calling attention from the press to 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.400 apply pressure and scrutiny of these cruise industry players to 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.000 sort of get them home. But I think ultimately to 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.480 your point there there isn't a lot of people advocating 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.760 beyond UH unions, UH and and sort of press, but 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.360 there definitely needs to be more attention to this issue. 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.440 Can during the conditions they faced for for extended prolonged 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:09.600 periods at sea Austin UM, there's some some uh you know, 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:14.080 really interesting characters in the story, including UM. Joseph Salers 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.760 is really the main UM story that you use as 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.600 the as the vehicle to to talk about the trend. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.080 Can you tell us about UM, about him and his 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.359 family and and sort of where their fight UM to 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:34.080 basically have his story UM uh talked about more broadly 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:40.040 currently stands. So Joseph was a cruise ship worker. He'd 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.960 been working for carnival cruise ships since essentially January, and 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.760 he really epitomizes what a lot of these crew members 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.080 went through UM. When the pandemic sort of exploded in March, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.520 he was moved around to several ships. He was isolated 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.040 in the cabin without a window for for a certain 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.879 period of time. UM. You know. Uh friends of his 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.320 said that, uh, you know, just to go outside. There 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.280 would be specific times that might you know, you might 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.320 only have an hour for breakfast, but it could take 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.920 forty five minutes just to get a coffee because the 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.920 sort of uh food service lines were so understaffed and 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.840 and there's the ships were so crowded. UM. And unfortunately, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.320 after months at sea, UM, he he did end up 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.760 taking his own life. Crew members reported not having seen 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.520 him for several days. He missed the daily required temperature 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.399 checks UM and crew members were sent to check on him, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.320 and unfortunately he was found um hanged to test And 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.639 what is a very tragic story that we outline in 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.639 the story and ultimately we trace what it's actually like 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.199 for the family to learn at this news and go 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:46.160 through the process of repat trading their sons to cease 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.920 body and his remains, and to go through the process 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.560 of having him declare dead when he died in international waters. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.080 To sort of figure out um the sort of true 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.120 story of what happened to their son when it's very 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.639 difficult to sign to to get information out of these 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.000 cruise companies who were not often totally forthcoming about information 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.439 for a variety of reasons. And so this story is 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.760 both the story of a lot of crew men getting 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.480 home and dealing with mental health issues, but also zeroing 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.080 in on on ones who suffered this ultimate tragedy of 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.880 suicide and how the families have had to deal with 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.199 with the consequences of this difficult repatoration. Yeah, hey, Austin, 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.840 thank you so much for bringing this story to our attention. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:26.760 And of course, if you are someone you know as 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.959 having suicidal thoughts, the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is one 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.960 eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. Austin Carr, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.840 technology reporter for Bloomberg News on the line, Uh, Poe 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.320 mine from l a Intoel Webber, Editor Bloomberg Business Week 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.320 on the remote access line from Brooklyn. You're listening to 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.240 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.359 during this pandemic, I think most of us have become 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.359 or we think we are experts in buying stuff online. 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:56.840 And maybe a lot more stuff at different types of 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.560 stuff than we did pre pandemic. And the proof is 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.560 in the putty. You look outside to anybody's door, there 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.680 seems to be boxes piling up on a daily basis 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.320 from all over. Let's get a sense of how this infrastructure, 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.399 this e commerce trend is playing. Now we can do 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.159 that with James Thompson. He's a partner by Box Experts. 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.760 Prior he was former business head of Amazon Services. He 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.359 joins us on the phone from Seattle. So, James, boy, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.440 what it just seems like this pandemic has pulled for 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.280 e commerce trends, end penetration rates by you know, a 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.359 couple of three years. What do you make of it? 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.480 I think it's exciting, it's very exciting. But it's also 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.480 forcing brands and retailers to ask and selves the question 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.680 around how are they going to adapt quickly to remain 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.600 where customers want to buy products. One of the scary 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.400 things that's happened for a lot of companies this year 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.240 is they realized we're not actually set up to help 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.320 customers if they want to buy online. So the questions 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.639 around what does it take to make that transition and 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.880 be in a position where you can support customers whether 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.360 they want to buy in store or buy online. That's 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.880 going to be the store companies making those adjustments, making 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.960 those investments, and getting themselves ready for a world where 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.760 enough consumers are interested in buying online that retailers and 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.000 brands alike need to be ready. Yeah. I'd be shocked 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.080 if if somebody, if a company I was invested, and 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.760 said they didn't have a digital strategy. I'd be a 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:20.199 seller of that stock. I don't care what business they're in. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:22.920 What are you finding in terms of kind of the 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.160 headaches are for retailers here as so much of their 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.560 business has moved online? What are some of the things 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:35.120 that they're finding problematic? At least a couple of big 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.280 issues for for most retailers. Number One, companies are not 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:43.720 set up to have real time inventory information available across 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.640 just not not just in store, but across the country. 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.159