WEBVTT - Ep. 234: Yellowstone Poacher 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.399 As a matter of fact, they got me off to 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.040 the side that first evening said, Man, don't know how 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.560 you know this guy, but be careful. You seem like 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:16.160 a pretty good guy. Just gonna let you know. Don't 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:17.840 know how you know this guy, but you need to 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:18.840 be careful. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.919 And I like you're telling you. On this episode, we 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.280 will again join United States Forest Service Special Agent Russ 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.479 Arthur as he works a very unique case involving illegal 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.800 elk outfitting in Montana. On our last episode, Russ told 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.320 us about the early part of his career in North 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.760 Carolina and the wild string of circumstances involving him being 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.560 run over which led to the imprisonment of a bad, 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.000 bad dude. This story is just as Wild Boys, but 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.560 in a different way, and at the risk of foreshadowing 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.960 too much, I'm just gonna say, I really doubt that 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.320 you're gonna want to miss the one, and don't forget that. 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.440 You can watch The Bear Grease Render our every other 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:10.360 week podcast on Meet Eater's new YouTube channel just dedicated 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.440 to podcasts. You can see old Brenton is overalls. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.320 As fate would have it, We're walking around this ridgetop 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.720 and we run across this sign and it says you 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.640 are entering the Allstone National Park, no guns. And there's 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.600 an elk bugling about one hundred yards other side of 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.240 that sign. And I said, wait a minut Wait minute, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.000 wait minute. I said, I got a video of this sign. 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.039 And he said hold on, hold on, and he gets 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.680 in front of the sign and I said, hey, O man, 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.760 look at this. And I video him as he reads 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.880 the sign, and then he says, and where do you 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.240 think we're going to go? Come on? 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.160 My name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.680 Grease podcas Cast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.720 search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.560 the story of Americans who lived their lives close to 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:17.480 the land, presented by f HF gear, American made purpose 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.000 built hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.239 rugged as the places we explore. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:36.720 Back in ninety six, ninety seven, I was a special agent, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.840 you know, again with a forest service, and I was 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.520 here in Tennessee and I got a call from an 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:47.919 agent friend of mine from Montana, and he had had 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:54.000 an unusual encounter with an informant and he began to 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.359 tell me this story to see if I could help 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:57.680 him with a case. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.440 This story took place in the early nineteen nineties. Email 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.960 was hardly a thing, no cell phones and text messages. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:11.679 And I like it when a story starts with a 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.680 landline phone ringing with somebody asking for help. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:17.880 I've got my attention, Russ. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.959 It's kind of funny how this case came about. So 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.360 you got an agent sitting in Montana that had a 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.000 young lady come and knock on the door and said, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.880 I need to turn my ex husband in. By the way, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:36.800 those are usually pretty good informants. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.400 This was about to say, that's somebody you probably listened to, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:39.800 isn't it. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:47.720 Yes, And evidently he and her had property together in Montana, 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:53.520 but they lived in North Carolina and he had a 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:59.040 scam going where he was taking hunters into the Absorba 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.840 Mountain Range help cunting, and he didn't have a permit, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.600 and which that's not a big deal if you're setting 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.480 out Montana and you have somebody come in and say, hey, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.520 I know somebody that's hunting and guiding people without a permit. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.600 I mean that's not the worst, you know, most egregious 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.640 case you know in the world. But it's not good 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.560 because it takes away other opportunities from forest users and 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.799 legal good outfitters and guides. But she began to tell more. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.440 He picks his own clients. He don't advertise. He charges 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:39.080 minimum of five thousand ahead and he'll do seven r 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.400 eight clients a year and it's cash money only, So 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.560 you do the math. You know, thirty five forty thousand 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.200 dollars cash over a month for two period of time. 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:53.920 And he also is he's into trading stolen guns. So 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.040 now then you're an agent sitting there, listen to this. Now, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.799 then this may be a case worthy of opening. Of course, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.120 the first thing that the agent did was he pulled 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.640 the records. He found out exactly with a map where 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.480 this guy hunted, and she knew exactly or he hunted, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.200 and it was right on the edge of the Yellowstone 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.520 National Park. And she told him it's not uncommon for 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.279 him to take people into the park. So now you're 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:23.880 you got a little more heightened. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.599 Either this woman is vindictive and creative in her story 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:36.320 about her ex husband, or she's the perfect informant. Illegal 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:41.760 guiding is one thing, but illegal guiding in Yellowstone National 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:48.720 Park is something completely different. Russ I'm all ears well. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.720 Found out that there was a couple of really good, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.920 reputable guides you know, that already had permits in that area, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.040 and that as a matter of fact, they had been 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.680 turning down people applying for permits from that are because 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.120 he just didn't need anymore. Now, whether or not that 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.679 had anything to do with him, he had never applied 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.120 for a permit first of all, so it wasn't like 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.200 he had tried the process and couldn't get in. So 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.279 we with that agent's helped from Montana, we laid an 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.320 investigative plan and set up a time for me to 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.560 talk to this ex wife. So at the time, we 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.880 had one of the best agents in North Carolina that 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.359 I've ever worked with, is a female, top notch, best 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.320 you've ever better had. I mean, she is the best 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.600 at surveillance, best at the interview, and she was good. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:44.400 So we meet her and we interview her and she 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.279 basically told us exactly how to catch her ex husband. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:56.880 She said, he sets up there is a huge expo 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.280 in Raleigh, North Carolina called the Dixie Deer Classic. But 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.320 she said, he will go the Dixie Deer Classic and 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:10.160 he set up this big, huge, display of old Winchester guns. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:15.240 But he's not selling Winchester's. He's looking for clients and 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.680 he'll pick you. And so you need to go to 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:24.240 the Dixie Deer Classic and devise away for him to 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.760 engage you in a conversation on this illegal hunt. So 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:29.840 we immediately knew what to do. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.720 This this ex wife. When you're interviewing her, how could 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.760 you tell that she was telling the truth and not 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:38.560 just vindictive? 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.160 She knew too much about the area, She do too 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.720 many details. You could tell that she was put out, 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:47.640 and you just knew. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.680 She just seemed credible, right, seemed very credible. 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.960 And you've got a good point. You've got to watch 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.120 out for that because you could be a setup. And 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.120 you've also got to be careful because let's say you 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.680 set up this and then two months later they get 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:08.160 back together, right, so you got to you gotta stay 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.760 in contact with her this whole time. So basically the 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.600 plan was simple, Me and the female agent from Asheville. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.560 We loaded up and we went to the Dixie Deer Classic. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:25.120 Obviously just covert. It wasn't a large undercover, but nobody 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.320 knew who we were. We're just dressed like hunters. And 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.480 we walked around that whole it's huge arena. We walked 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.719 around that whole place and we and there was a 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.600 lot of outfitters set up from whitetail hunts to hunts 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.800 in Canada. Very few gun dealers there, but he was 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:46.120 one there. Well, you know, I've got a passion with 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:51.880 Old Winchester's. So I see his booth and she and 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.440 I put forth the plan that we had talked about. 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.760 We go up as a couple. We're looking I'm looking 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.839 at the guns. She's saying, where are you from? And 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.760 he's saying Montana? And you know, what do you do 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.400 out there? And you know, he's talking to her and 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.240 I'm looking at the guns and talking about this model 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.000 in that model, and I just looked at her and said, Hey, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:17.720 when you finish up here, I'm gonna go over here 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.240 at this outfitter and check them out. Well, immediately when 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.480 I went out, he approached her and said what's he 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.720 interested in? And she tells him, well, we're kind of 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.760 on our anniversary and I promised him an elk hunt 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:34.760 next year. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:36.760 He took it the hook line and say. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.839 I mean it was it was a gut hook And 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.400 I looked over there, and within thirty seconds or a 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.480 minute after I'd walked away, she's behind the booth with 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.600 him looking at a photo album, you know, big l. 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.199 So I come back over there and the guy tells me, look, 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.800 I've got you set up twenty five hundred down right now. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.480 Cash is all I'll take. But the only stipulation we're 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.480 gonna be hunting public land. I don't like to advertise 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.480 a lot. If we run into anybody while we're hunting, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.559 you just tell them that many you are good friends. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.640 I said, you got it. I said, I think I understand. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:20.440 I think I understand. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.400 They're planned to get invited to be guided by this 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.160 guy was perfect and it sounds like it took all 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.680 of five minutes. It turns out the Dixie Deer Classic 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.160 is the nation's oldest white tail expo and it's held 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:35.559 in Raleigh, North Carolina. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:45.480 This ex wife was on point, so we got the 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:46.040 hunt plan. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.080 So we go out to this place, Montana for the hunt. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.600 Now, this is this app Dixie Deer Classics in the summer, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.000 So you got a couple of months going out there 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.400 in September US I suspected. 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.560 Yeah, it was whenever the gun season opening of the 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.120 gun season whenever it was. I think it was end 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.280 of September one October, and he had not even told 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.840 me yet where we'd be hunting. He just said we 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.480 had a long horseback ride. The agent out there coordinated 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.280 with you know, the Game and Fish told me how 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.640 to get my permit and back then you could get 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.880 over the counter stuff. So the agent out there coordinated 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.280 the end with Game and Fish from Montana, you know, 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.400 so they knew, you know, what was going on, and 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.120 evidently they'd been after this guy for quite some time. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:38.320 So we go out there, he does horseback and you know, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.040 I've been studying maps of that area because I'm a 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.240 I'm a map freak. Anyway, I've been studying maps the 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:50.760 potential areas, and we actually laid a plan because, contrary 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.440 to proper belief, these are not comfortable hunts. There is 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.320 usually not good eating, it's usually not good sleeping, it's 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.200 usually not people knowledgeable of the resources. These are just 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.760 not comfortable hunts. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.160 Like when when you're going with somebody that's doing something wrong, right. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.000 You know, I have a lot of friends that claim, man, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.040 you got it made, you got to go hunting free. No, 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.160 you don't understand. These conditions are not they're not ideal, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.720 and you have to be on edge the whole time. 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.160 And you know it's just you know, you're not with 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.520 friends as you can discuss things openly. You got to 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:29.600 watch everything you do, say and act. So we I 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.960 always would lay a plan if I went on a 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:36.559 back country undercover to get out early, whether the conditions 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.400 were just unbearable or whether you've got enough evidence that 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.440 it's time to leave. Well, my plan on this one 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.560 was we made up a story that my dad was sick, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.000 and I even asked the guide, I said, who could 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.120 we leave a message with that if something happens? Then 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.720 he said, we'll stop by the forig Service office. So 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.880 on the way in, we stopped by the forest Service 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.880 office and I told these people didn't know me. They 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.880 just thought I was legit. And I told the person 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.800 that they directed me to. I said, I'm getting ready 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.720 to go into the absorbers, and this is the parking 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.800 lot we're going to be at. We were doing two 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.959 things here. We're also letting game and fish know exactly 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.920 where we were two and we're going to be there 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.800 ten days. I don't know if y'all got any way, 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.760 or any contact with radio with people. But if I 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.080 lack a phone number for this ranger station, something were 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.720 to happen to my dad while I'm in there. Well 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.559 they were very nice. So now then we're going in 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.680 the back country, no sell service, no phone, no radio. 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.959 How am I going to communicate out? 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.640 You're by yourself too, Yeah, Well. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.480 The agent out there had set it up. There's a 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.680 remote guard station out there, and there were going to 0:13:55.679 --> 0:14:00.240 be two wild life officers that knew my situation. So 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.760 if I needed out, all I had to do was 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:09.360 somehow get a message to hell Roin Creek. Well, there 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.240 was another client that was in camp with us, so 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.480 I knew where hell Roying Creek was. We passed it 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.720 on the way to our camp, so I had that 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.800 in my mind I can get back there, and it 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.000 wasn't two three miles if I needed to. 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.400 The plan is set and things are about to get real. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.920 I want to add two. Something that Russ commented on. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.160 It might be easy to think that this would be 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.400 an enjoyable thing, like in the same way that a 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.400 legal hunt would be. After all, he is in a 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.400 beautiful place, and in a way he is hunting, though 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.440 he's hoping not to kill one, but to pretend like 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.560 he wants to kill one, but he can if it's 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.160 absolutely necessary to not blow his cover. The level of 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.160 stress would be almost hard to comprehend. The potential of 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.520 being found out and the repercussions of that, coupled with 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.320 a lifetime of reverence for wildlife and the law, like 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.640 we know, Russ has made this a cringe worthy, difficult situation. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.120 So the hunt started off terrible. First of all, we 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.840 camped right next to two guys from Colorado that were 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.640 what I would consider very good hunters, very respectable hunters. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.680 This guy knew those two guys, and you could tell 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:43.360 those two guys didn't like my guide. As a matter 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.240 of fact, they got me off to the side that 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.720 first evening said, man, don't know how you know this guy, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.400 but be careful. You seem like a pretty good guy. 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.040 Just gonna let you know. Don't know how you know this. 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.240 Guy, but you need to be careful and telling you. 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.640 Yeah. So that night that when we first got there, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.000 I know it was going to be a bad, bad trip. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.720 When he walked over up into the trees and he 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.080 had some bags that he had hung up in the 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.080 in the trees, with ropes, and he started letting them down, 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.640 and it was food that he had stashed from the 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.120 year before, and he started going through it. And he'd 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.560 open a jar of peanut butter and smell it. I 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.440 think that'll be okay. He'd open up something, Oh, this 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.680 is still good, and I'm thinking this is gonna be terrible. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.400 I'll never forget. He had a bunch of tang. Remember 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.160 that the drink orange dry tang. Well, I'm wondering, what's 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.000 he doing all that? Well that was for his vodka. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.800 So that night I had to sit there by that 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.280 fire and watch him and the other client that he 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.800 had there with him just just get drunk. And of 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.200 course I'm not drinking and uh, and I'm thinking, man, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.000 this is going to be terrible. And I'm trying to 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.240 talk hunting. Hey, where are we going tomorrow morning? You know? 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.440 Have you been in here scouting? You know? And it 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.200 was just yeah, yeah, you know it just like I 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.360 was with a drunk and I was. So I sat 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.320 there that night and I do it. The next morning's 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.840 opening morning. So I wake up and I'm out there 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.040 drinking coffee and it's breaking daylight and I literally hear 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.800 five or six different elk bugling, and I watched the 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.360 guys and come up the trail that had camped right 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.320 below us, come back and start leading or pack up 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.520 up towards the bugling elk. And I'm wondering, when are 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:33.560 we going now? I need to back up and clarify something. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.479 You do not have to kill an elk on an 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:42.080 illegal outfitting and guide to prove illegal outfitting, and God 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.439 got to prove the intent. So being so close to 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.879 the park, we had met with obviously park officials and 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.760 we met with prosecutors on where do you draw the line? 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.919 You know, because you never want to be accused of 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.560 you being the one that's depleting the resources. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.200 Right, like as like as an undercover guy, right if 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.800 you killed an elk being criticized for right. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.440 So you want to minimize that as best you can. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.200 And in the perfect world you don't kill one. I mean, 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.000 in the perfect world, you don't kill one. So you 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:20.440 got to have that in the back of your mind 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.840 all this time. So these guys, this guy gets up, 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.640 you know, he's hung over, and he's stumbling around there 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.080 and we're hear an elk bugle, and we hear a 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.160 gunshot and then it's probably not three hundred yards from 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.560 our camp. And he says, well, that's a probably, that's 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.840 probably so and so and that's the guys with the 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.359 camp right blow us. And he said, let's go see 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.159 what they got. So we got a couple of stock 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.280 and we went up there and they had a nice 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.880 five by five down and uh. And he actually helped 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.160 him get it caped out and spent half the day 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.280 helping those guys. And I'm thinking, is you know, is 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.240 he going to take me hunting or not? You know? 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.080 And what do you need gathering evidence? Like just your word, 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.479 Like you could just come out and just say he 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.480 took me hunting, we did this, or you do you 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.120 have recording devices on you? 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.679 What I did on this case is I took a 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.000 video camera and I prepped him and it worked that 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.800 I'm wanting to video this hunt. My dad has never 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.040 seen this part of the country. He's getting up an 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.680 age and I don't know if he'll ever get out here. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.359 I'd lock to document all this country with a video camera. 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.600 And he welcomed that. He was these guys have a 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.520 big ego, and if you play on their ego and 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.320 say I'm getting ready to make you a movie star 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.600 back to somebody in another state. You know. He ate 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.520 it up, he said, he said, that's fine. So I 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.840 would continually video stuff. I really didn't even want need 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.560 the video, but getting him used to my video, and 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.879 I'd always talk in it. Everybody called my dad the 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.760 old man, and I'd always hey, old man, take a 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.240 look at this, you know, like I was talking to 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.800 my dad. So a lot of that to help with intent. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.040 So finally the next morning he said, we're gonna go 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.880 right back up past with guy Kim. There's more elk bungling, 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.320 and we're gonna we're gonna get them. It's okay, Well, 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.760 same thing night before. Stayed out and drunk by the 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.359 fire and I laid in the tent just uncomfortable, you know, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.959 just want this to be over. He takes me out 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.800 the next morning, right out of the box an elk bugling. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.199 I would consider him probably a mediocre caller, and he 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.240 calls up this. It was a pretty good probably a 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.479 probably a five by five. I couldn't it never got close, 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.760 but it would have been close enough to shoot, and 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:56.879 I threw the gun up. I was shooting the pre 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.560 sixty four model seventy Winchester. He uh, he stepped out 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.600 two or three times, got to cross arizonh and I 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.920 purposely let him go, and he was like, man, what 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.720 is wrong? I said, Man, I just there's too much 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.879 brush in a way, you know. So about an hour later, 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.200 we're walking and he's calling every now and then another one. 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.639 Do you think at this point you've got what you 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:22.600 need or. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:23.800 Not all the way? 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:24.160 Yeah? 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:25.920 Not all the way, and he's filming you. 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.600 Well I didn't feel that, Okay, I didn't feel that. 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:33.280 Ok So the next stap he calls in. It's like 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.720 a it's a raghorn. And so that was my excuse. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.880 Too small, too small, so too thick, too small. I'm thinking, man, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.000 I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna have to maybe have to 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.120 kill one because I've given two excuses, and I don't 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.880 want it to say, hey, what's wrong with you buddy? 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:51.199 You know. 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.680 So, as fate would have it, we're walking around this 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.320 ridge top and we run across this sign and I 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.560 stopped and I'm reading it and it says you are 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.600 entering they Allstone National Park, No guns, et cetera, et cetera, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.359 et cetera. Loud mental violators will be prosecuted, you know, 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.000 siting lego law. And there's an elk bugling about one 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.920 hundred yards other side of that sign, and I said, 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:18.399 wait a minute, wait minut, wait minute. I said, I 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.920 got a video of this sign. And he said hold on, 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.320 hold on, And he gets in front of the sign 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.400 and I video him and I said, hey, o, man, 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.480 look at this. And I video him as he reads 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:33.240 the sign, and then he says, and where do you 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:39.200 think we're going to go? Come on. So we get 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.520 in there and he calls us up and it's a 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.399 it's a good five by five and it's about twenty 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.360 five yards from us, and he says, man, take him, 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.920 take him down. Well, it stomped all around us for 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.280 five minutes, it seems line. And so finally, you know, 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:54.800 I shot it. 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:05.040 Wow, things just escalated a lot. I was not expecting that. 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:08.920 With two other fake bumbles on elk encounters and Russ 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.199 not shooting, he felt that he had no choice but 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.359 to take the elk. In these situations, it takes a 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:19.080 ton of confidence and quick in the field decisions that 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.720 will impact the case when it goes to court, but 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:26.720 also the personal safety of the agent and Also, Russ's 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.879 team at the National Forest Service had been in communication 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:32.680 with the National Park Service and the Montana Fish and 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.840 Wildlife people and some lawyers, and all of them knew 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.000 that it was a possibility that he would actually have 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.920 to take an elk on this hunt, and potentially even 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:46.040 in the park. The cost of one elk was worth 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:50.240 putting this bad guy out of business for good. But 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.240 do not think for a second that Russ was happy 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.080