1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, they got me off to 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: the side that first evening said, Man, don't know how 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: you know this guy, but be careful. You seem like 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: a pretty good guy. Just gonna let you know. Don't 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: know how you know this guy, but you need to 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: be careful. 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: And I like you're telling you. On this episode, we 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: will again join United States Forest Service Special Agent Russ 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 2: Arthur as he works a very unique case involving illegal 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: elk outfitting in Montana. On our last episode, Russ told 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: us about the early part of his career in North 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: Carolina and the wild string of circumstances involving him being 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: run over which led to the imprisonment of a bad, 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: bad dude. This story is just as Wild Boys, but 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: in a different way, and at the risk of foreshadowing 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: too much, I'm just gonna say, I really doubt that 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: you're gonna want to miss the one, and don't forget that. 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: You can watch The Bear Grease Render our every other 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: week podcast on Meet Eater's new YouTube channel just dedicated 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: to podcasts. You can see old Brenton is overalls. 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: As fate would have it, We're walking around this ridgetop 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: and we run across this sign and it says you 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: are entering the Allstone National Park, no guns. And there's 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: an elk bugling about one hundred yards other side of 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: that sign. And I said, wait a minut Wait minute, 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: wait minute. I said, I got a video of this sign. 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: And he said hold on, hold on, and he gets 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: in front of the sign and I said, hey, O man, 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: look at this. And I video him as he reads 30 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: the sign, and then he says, and where do you 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: think we're going to go? Come on? 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: My name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear 33 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: Grease podcas Cast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, 34 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell 35 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: the story of Americans who lived their lives close to 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: the land, presented by f HF gear, American made purpose 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: built hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as 38 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 2: rugged as the places we explore. 39 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Back in ninety six, ninety seven, I was a special agent, 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, again with a forest service, and I was 41 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: here in Tennessee and I got a call from an 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: agent friend of mine from Montana, and he had had 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: an unusual encounter with an informant and he began to 44 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: tell me this story to see if I could help 45 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: him with a case. 46 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: This story took place in the early nineteen nineties. Email 47 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: was hardly a thing, no cell phones and text messages. 48 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 2: And I like it when a story starts with a 49 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: landline phone ringing with somebody asking for help. 50 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: I've got my attention, Russ. 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny how this case came about. So 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: you got an agent sitting in Montana that had a 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: young lady come and knock on the door and said, 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: I need to turn my ex husband in. By the way, 55 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: those are usually pretty good informants. 56 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: This was about to say, that's somebody you probably listened to, 57 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: isn't it. 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: Yes, And evidently he and her had property together in Montana, 59 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: but they lived in North Carolina and he had a 60 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: scam going where he was taking hunters into the Absorba 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: Mountain Range help cunting, and he didn't have a permit, 62 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: and which that's not a big deal if you're setting 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: out Montana and you have somebody come in and say, hey, 64 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: I know somebody that's hunting and guiding people without a permit. 65 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean that's not the worst, you know, most egregious 66 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: case you know in the world. But it's not good 67 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: because it takes away other opportunities from forest users and 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: legal good outfitters and guides. But she began to tell more. 69 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: He picks his own clients. He don't advertise. He charges 70 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: minimum of five thousand ahead and he'll do seven r 71 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: eight clients a year and it's cash money only, So 72 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: you do the math. You know, thirty five forty thousand 73 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: dollars cash over a month for two period of time. 74 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: And he also is he's into trading stolen guns. So 75 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: now then you're an agent sitting there, listen to this. Now, 76 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: then this may be a case worthy of opening. Of course, 77 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: the first thing that the agent did was he pulled 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: the records. He found out exactly with a map where 79 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: this guy hunted, and she knew exactly or he hunted, 80 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: and it was right on the edge of the Yellowstone 81 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: National Park. And she told him it's not uncommon for 82 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: him to take people into the park. So now you're 83 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: you got a little more heightened. 84 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 2: Either this woman is vindictive and creative in her story 85 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: about her ex husband, or she's the perfect informant. Illegal 86 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: guiding is one thing, but illegal guiding in Yellowstone National 87 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: Park is something completely different. Russ I'm all ears well. 88 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: Found out that there was a couple of really good, 89 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: reputable guides you know, that already had permits in that area, 90 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: and that as a matter of fact, they had been 91 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: turning down people applying for permits from that are because 92 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: he just didn't need anymore. Now, whether or not that 93 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: had anything to do with him, he had never applied 94 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: for a permit first of all, so it wasn't like 95 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: he had tried the process and couldn't get in. So 96 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: we with that agent's helped from Montana, we laid an 97 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: investigative plan and set up a time for me to 98 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: talk to this ex wife. So at the time, we 99 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: had one of the best agents in North Carolina that 100 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: I've ever worked with, is a female, top notch, best 101 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: you've ever better had. I mean, she is the best 102 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: at surveillance, best at the interview, and she was good. 103 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: So we meet her and we interview her and she 104 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: basically told us exactly how to catch her ex husband. 105 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: She said, he sets up there is a huge expo 106 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: in Raleigh, North Carolina called the Dixie Deer Classic. But 107 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: she said, he will go the Dixie Deer Classic and 108 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: he set up this big, huge, display of old Winchester guns. 109 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: But he's not selling Winchester's. He's looking for clients and 110 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: he'll pick you. And so you need to go to 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: the Dixie Deer Classic and devise away for him to 112 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: engage you in a conversation on this illegal hunt. So 113 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: we immediately knew what to do. 114 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: This this ex wife. When you're interviewing her, how could 115 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: you tell that she was telling the truth and not 116 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: just vindictive? 117 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: She knew too much about the area, She do too 118 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: many details. You could tell that she was put out, 119 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: and you just knew. 120 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: She just seemed credible, right, seemed very credible. 121 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: And you've got a good point. You've got to watch 122 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: out for that because you could be a setup. And 123 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: you've also got to be careful because let's say you 124 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: set up this and then two months later they get 125 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: back together, right, so you got to you gotta stay 126 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: in contact with her this whole time. So basically the 127 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: plan was simple, Me and the female agent from Asheville. 128 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: We loaded up and we went to the Dixie Deer Classic. 129 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: Obviously just covert. It wasn't a large undercover, but nobody 130 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: knew who we were. We're just dressed like hunters. And 131 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: we walked around that whole it's huge arena. We walked 132 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: around that whole place and we and there was a 133 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: lot of outfitters set up from whitetail hunts to hunts 134 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: in Canada. Very few gun dealers there, but he was 135 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: one there. Well, you know, I've got a passion with 136 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: Old Winchester's. So I see his booth and she and 137 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: I put forth the plan that we had talked about. 138 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: We go up as a couple. We're looking I'm looking 139 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: at the guns. She's saying, where are you from? And 140 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: he's saying Montana? And you know, what do you do 141 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: out there? And you know, he's talking to her and 142 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the guns and talking about this model 143 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: in that model, and I just looked at her and said, Hey, 144 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: when you finish up here, I'm gonna go over here 145 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: at this outfitter and check them out. Well, immediately when 146 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: I went out, he approached her and said what's he 147 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: interested in? And she tells him, well, we're kind of 148 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: on our anniversary and I promised him an elk hunt 149 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: next year. 150 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: He took it the hook line and say. 151 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: I mean it was it was a gut hook And 152 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: I looked over there, and within thirty seconds or a 153 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: minute after I'd walked away, she's behind the booth with 154 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: him looking at a photo album, you know, big l. 155 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: So I come back over there and the guy tells me, look, 156 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: I've got you set up twenty five hundred down right now. 157 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: Cash is all I'll take. But the only stipulation we're 158 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: gonna be hunting public land. I don't like to advertise 159 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: a lot. If we run into anybody while we're hunting, 160 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: you just tell them that many you are good friends. 161 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: I said, you got it. I said, I think I understand. 162 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 3: I think I understand. 163 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: They're planned to get invited to be guided by this 164 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: guy was perfect and it sounds like it took all 165 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: of five minutes. It turns out the Dixie Deer Classic 166 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: is the nation's oldest white tail expo and it's held 167 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 2: in Raleigh, North Carolina. 168 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: This ex wife was on point, so we got the 169 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: hunt plan. 170 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: So we go out to this place, Montana for the hunt. 171 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: Now, this is this app Dixie Deer Classics in the summer, 172 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: So you got a couple of months going out there 173 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: in September US I suspected. 174 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was whenever the gun season opening of the 175 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: gun season whenever it was. I think it was end 176 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: of September one October, and he had not even told 177 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: me yet where we'd be hunting. He just said we 178 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: had a long horseback ride. The agent out there coordinated 179 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: with you know, the Game and Fish told me how 180 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: to get my permit and back then you could get 181 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: over the counter stuff. So the agent out there coordinated 182 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: the end with Game and Fish from Montana, you know, 183 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: so they knew, you know, what was going on, and 184 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: evidently they'd been after this guy for quite some time. 185 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: So we go out there, he does horseback and you know, 186 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: I've been studying maps of that area because I'm a 187 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm a map freak. Anyway, I've been studying maps the 188 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: potential areas, and we actually laid a plan because, contrary 189 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: to proper belief, these are not comfortable hunts. There is 190 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: usually not good eating, it's usually not good sleeping, it's 191 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: usually not people knowledgeable of the resources. These are just 192 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: not comfortable hunts. 193 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: Like when when you're going with somebody that's doing something wrong, right. 194 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: You know, I have a lot of friends that claim, man, 195 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: you got it made, you got to go hunting free. No, 196 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: you don't understand. These conditions are not they're not ideal, 197 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: and you have to be on edge the whole time. 198 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: And you know it's just you know, you're not with 199 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: friends as you can discuss things openly. You got to 200 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: watch everything you do, say and act. So we I 201 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: always would lay a plan if I went on a 202 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: back country undercover to get out early, whether the conditions 203 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: were just unbearable or whether you've got enough evidence that 204 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: it's time to leave. Well, my plan on this one 205 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: was we made up a story that my dad was sick, 206 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: and I even asked the guide, I said, who could 207 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: we leave a message with that if something happens? Then 208 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: he said, we'll stop by the forig Service office. So 209 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: on the way in, we stopped by the forest Service 210 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: office and I told these people didn't know me. They 211 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: just thought I was legit. And I told the person 212 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: that they directed me to. I said, I'm getting ready 213 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: to go into the absorbers, and this is the parking 214 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: lot we're going to be at. We were doing two 215 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: things here. We're also letting game and fish know exactly 216 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: where we were two and we're going to be there 217 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: ten days. I don't know if y'all got any way, 218 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: or any contact with radio with people. But if I 219 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: lack a phone number for this ranger station, something were 220 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: to happen to my dad while I'm in there. Well 221 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: they were very nice. So now then we're going in 222 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: the back country, no sell service, no phone, no radio. 223 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: How am I going to communicate out? 224 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: You're by yourself too, Yeah, Well. 225 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: The agent out there had set it up. There's a 226 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: remote guard station out there, and there were going to 227 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: be two wild life officers that knew my situation. So 228 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: if I needed out, all I had to do was 229 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: somehow get a message to hell Roin Creek. Well, there 230 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: was another client that was in camp with us, so 231 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: I knew where hell Roying Creek was. We passed it 232 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: on the way to our camp, so I had that 233 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: in my mind I can get back there, and it 234 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: wasn't two three miles if I needed to. 235 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: The plan is set and things are about to get real. 236 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: I want to add two. Something that Russ commented on. 237 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: It might be easy to think that this would be 238 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: an enjoyable thing, like in the same way that a 239 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: legal hunt would be. After all, he is in a 240 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: beautiful place, and in a way he is hunting, though 241 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: he's hoping not to kill one, but to pretend like 242 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 2: he wants to kill one, but he can if it's 243 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: absolutely necessary to not blow his cover. The level of 244 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: stress would be almost hard to comprehend. The potential of 245 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: being found out and the repercussions of that, coupled with 246 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: a lifetime of reverence for wildlife and the law, like 247 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: we know, Russ has made this a cringe worthy, difficult situation. 248 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: So the hunt started off terrible. First of all, we 249 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: camped right next to two guys from Colorado that were 250 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: what I would consider very good hunters, very respectable hunters. 251 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: This guy knew those two guys, and you could tell 252 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: those two guys didn't like my guide. As a matter 253 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: of fact, they got me off to the side that 254 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: first evening said, man, don't know how you know this guy, 255 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: but be careful. You seem like a pretty good guy. 256 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: Just gonna let you know. Don't know how you know this. 257 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 3: Guy, but you need to be careful and telling you. 258 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. So that night that when we first got there, 259 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: I know it was going to be a bad, bad trip. 260 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: When he walked over up into the trees and he 261 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: had some bags that he had hung up in the 262 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: in the trees, with ropes, and he started letting them down, 263 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: and it was food that he had stashed from the 264 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: year before, and he started going through it. And he'd 265 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: open a jar of peanut butter and smell it. I 266 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: think that'll be okay. He'd open up something, Oh, this 267 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: is still good, and I'm thinking this is gonna be terrible. 268 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. He had a bunch of tang. Remember 269 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: that the drink orange dry tang. Well, I'm wondering, what's 270 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: he doing all that? Well that was for his vodka. 271 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: So that night I had to sit there by that 272 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: fire and watch him and the other client that he 273 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: had there with him just just get drunk. And of 274 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: course I'm not drinking and uh, and I'm thinking, man, 275 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: this is going to be terrible. And I'm trying to 276 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: talk hunting. Hey, where are we going tomorrow morning? You know? 277 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: Have you been in here scouting? You know? And it 278 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: was just yeah, yeah, you know it just like I 279 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: was with a drunk and I was. So I sat 280 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: there that night and I do it. The next morning's 281 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: opening morning. So I wake up and I'm out there 282 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: drinking coffee and it's breaking daylight and I literally hear 283 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: five or six different elk bugling, and I watched the 284 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: guys and come up the trail that had camped right 285 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: below us, come back and start leading or pack up 286 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: up towards the bugling elk. And I'm wondering, when are 287 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: we going now? I need to back up and clarify something. 288 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: You do not have to kill an elk on an 289 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: illegal outfitting and guide to prove illegal outfitting, and God 290 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: got to prove the intent. So being so close to 291 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: the park, we had met with obviously park officials and 292 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: we met with prosecutors on where do you draw the line? 293 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: You know, because you never want to be accused of 294 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: you being the one that's depleting the resources. 295 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 2: Right, like as like as an undercover guy, right if 296 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: you killed an elk being criticized for right. 297 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: So you want to minimize that as best you can. 298 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: And in the perfect world you don't kill one. I mean, 299 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: in the perfect world, you don't kill one. So you 300 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: got to have that in the back of your mind 301 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: all this time. So these guys, this guy gets up, 302 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, he's hung over, and he's stumbling around there 303 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: and we're hear an elk bugle, and we hear a 304 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: gunshot and then it's probably not three hundred yards from 305 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: our camp. And he says, well, that's a probably, that's 306 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: probably so and so and that's the guys with the 307 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: camp right blow us. And he said, let's go see 308 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: what they got. So we got a couple of stock 309 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: and we went up there and they had a nice 310 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: five by five down and uh. And he actually helped 311 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: him get it caped out and spent half the day 312 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: helping those guys. And I'm thinking, is you know, is 313 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: he going to take me hunting or not? You know? 314 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 2: And what do you need gathering evidence? Like just your word, 315 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: Like you could just come out and just say he 316 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: took me hunting, we did this, or you do you 317 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 2: have recording devices on you? 318 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: What I did on this case is I took a 319 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: video camera and I prepped him and it worked that 320 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: I'm wanting to video this hunt. My dad has never 321 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: seen this part of the country. He's getting up an 322 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: age and I don't know if he'll ever get out here. 323 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: I'd lock to document all this country with a video camera. 324 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: And he welcomed that. He was these guys have a 325 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: big ego, and if you play on their ego and 326 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: say I'm getting ready to make you a movie star 327 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: back to somebody in another state. You know. He ate 328 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: it up, he said, he said, that's fine. So I 329 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: would continually video stuff. I really didn't even want need 330 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: the video, but getting him used to my video, and 331 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: I'd always talk in it. Everybody called my dad the 332 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: old man, and I'd always hey, old man, take a 333 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: look at this, you know, like I was talking to 334 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: my dad. So a lot of that to help with intent. 335 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: So finally the next morning he said, we're gonna go 336 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: right back up past with guy Kim. There's more elk bungling, 337 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna get them. It's okay, Well, 338 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: same thing night before. Stayed out and drunk by the 339 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: fire and I laid in the tent just uncomfortable, you know, 340 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: just want this to be over. He takes me out 341 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: the next morning, right out of the box an elk bugling. 342 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: I would consider him probably a mediocre caller, and he 343 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: calls up this. It was a pretty good probably a 344 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: probably a five by five. I couldn't it never got close, 345 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: but it would have been close enough to shoot, and 346 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: I threw the gun up. I was shooting the pre 347 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: sixty four model seventy Winchester. He uh, he stepped out 348 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: two or three times, got to cross arizonh and I 349 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: purposely let him go, and he was like, man, what 350 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: is wrong? I said, Man, I just there's too much 351 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: brush in a way, you know. So about an hour later, 352 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: we're walking and he's calling every now and then another one. 353 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 2: Do you think at this point you've got what you 354 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: need or. 355 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: Not all the way? 356 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? 357 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 2: Not all the way, and he's filming you. 358 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: Well I didn't feel that, Okay, I didn't feel that. 359 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: Ok So the next stap he calls in. It's like 360 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: a it's a raghorn. And so that was my excuse. 361 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: Too small, too small, so too thick, too small. I'm thinking, man, 362 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna have to maybe have to 363 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: kill one because I've given two excuses, and I don't 364 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: want it to say, hey, what's wrong with you buddy? 365 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 3: You know. 366 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: So, as fate would have it, we're walking around this 367 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: ridge top and we run across this sign and I 368 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: stopped and I'm reading it and it says you are 369 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: entering they Allstone National Park, No guns, et cetera, et cetera, 370 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: et cetera. Loud mental violators will be prosecuted, you know, 371 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: siting lego law. And there's an elk bugling about one 372 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: hundred yards other side of that sign, and I said, 373 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait minut, wait minute. I said, I 374 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: got a video of this sign. And he said hold on, 375 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: hold on, And he gets in front of the sign 376 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: and I video him and I said, hey, o, man, 377 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: look at this. And I video him as he reads 378 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: the sign, and then he says, and where do you 379 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: think we're going to go? Come on. So we get 380 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: in there and he calls us up and it's a 381 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: it's a good five by five and it's about twenty 382 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: five yards from us, and he says, man, take him, 383 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: take him down. Well, it stomped all around us for 384 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: five minutes, it seems line. And so finally, you know, 385 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: I shot it. 386 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: Wow, things just escalated a lot. I was not expecting that. 387 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 2: With two other fake bumbles on elk encounters and Russ 388 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 2: not shooting, he felt that he had no choice but 389 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 2: to take the elk. In these situations, it takes a 390 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: ton of confidence and quick in the field decisions that 391 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: will impact the case when it goes to court, but 392 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: also the personal safety of the agent and Also, Russ's 393 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: team at the National Forest Service had been in communication 394 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: with the National Park Service and the Montana Fish and 395 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: Wildlife people and some lawyers, and all of them knew 396 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: that it was a possibility that he would actually have 397 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: to take an elk on this hunt, and potentially even 398 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: in the park. The cost of one elk was worth 399 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: putting this bad guy out of business for good. But 400 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: do not think for a second that Russ was happy 401 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: about or enjoyed it. 402 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: It just wasn't like that. 403 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: And it's not lost on me that in some cases 404 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: authorities have taken flak for being participants, even to the 405 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: point of pulling the trigger into illegal hunting. But I've 406 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 2: personally never heard a situation where this power was abused. 407 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm sure it has been. 408 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: We we get to elp down, he processes it, We 409 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: get it back to camp. Of course we don't. You know, 410 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: we're not talking to anybody else, you know, we just 411 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: we killed it up on up on the mountain up 412 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: there was. 413 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: He was he nervous about it being down there? 414 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a little bit, but not bad. 415 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, hey, we gotta we gotta get 416 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 2: this thing across the line. 417 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: Right, yep. So we get it out of there and 418 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: get it back to camp, and I'm thinking, how can 419 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: I get out of here? So the next day he's 420 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: going to take the client from Kentucky. He's got a 421 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: client from Kentucky with him. So the next morning, when 422 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: they go hunting, I beat feet back to hell Roaring 423 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: Guard station to where the wildlife officers were supposed to 424 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: be at. Well, they were out on patrol and weren't there. Well, 425 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: all I did was I put them a note under 426 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: the door, and I kind of wrote it in code. 427 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: I said, hey, guys, this is and I use my 428 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: undercover name, just want to let you know this has 429 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: been a great hunt and we have gotten what I 430 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: came here for. Thank you. That's in case somebody else 431 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: found the note. Yeah, and I'm wondering, I hope they 432 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: read that and crier. 433 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: They know you're looking for a way out, right, and 434 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: they have an excuse right right, your dad's sick there 435 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: to say that, we're going to communicate that to your camp, right, 436 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 2: so they should read this note and be like, right, 437 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 2: we're going to get We got to get him out 438 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 2: of there, right. 439 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: So I go back to camp and I'm wondering, I'm 440 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: hoping that resonated, because I really don't want to stay 441 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: eight more days in here under these conditions. The very 442 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: next day, almost at dark, a park ranger come riding 443 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: in on a horse. Not a Forest Service but a 444 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: park ranger. And what those guys did, they eate took 445 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: it a step further. They facilitated a phone call the 446 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: agent out there. The agent called the district for the 447 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: Forest Service and said, hey, you've got a guy out 448 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: there hunting. We've been contacted by his family that he 449 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: needs to come home. So the wildlife officers didn't deliver 450 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: the message. 451 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: So this guy that's coming in really thinks it's yeah. 452 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: And it was a girl. It's a female park ranger, 453 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: and so she really thinking this is real. And she 454 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: did a great job. She pulled me off to the 455 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: side and said, you know, I need to let you 456 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: know there's been a term for your worst on your dad. 457 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, the word came into the Force Service office. 458 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: They knew I was going to be in patrol over 459 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: here today and I'm the one delivering it, and so 460 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: I had to act like I was, you know, a 461 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: little distraught over that. But before she broke the news, 462 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: she was talking about, hey, it looks like you've had 463 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: some luck. And it was one of my favorite photos. 464 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: I got my picture with her in the elk, you know. 465 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: And so they over the message and after she left. 466 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: So would the outfitter would have seen this. 467 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he saw the whole scenario. 468 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: So he sees this lady right up. Yes, oh yeah, 469 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: so legit. Yeah, she doesn't know, so she's not acting right. 470 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's really there for her and that's why how 471 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: we had it set up that way. Yeah, So soon 472 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: as she leaves, I says, well, you know, I hate it, 473 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: but I need to be out here tomorrow. And he says, well, 474 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: you know we can't do that. I said, yeah we can. 475 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: And he said, well, I've got another client I need 476 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: to finish with and maybe we'll get up tomorrow then 477 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: we can leave. I said no. I said, here's the deal. 478 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: I said, I'm leaving five to walk out here. And 479 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: he said, well, he said, I guess I could. We 480 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: could go out through the park because his wife had 481 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: somehow shuttled a vehicle over to a parking lot that 482 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: was a shorter distance. It wasn't the twenty miles. 483 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 2: It was like six or eight miles. 484 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: But it was through the park, and you can't trans 485 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: can't do any guide him, can't transport any gun or 486 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 1: any meat across the park. He said, we could go 487 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: through the park, but if we get caught, we've be 488 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: in trouble. And I said, well, I'll tell you what 489 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: I'll do. You keep the meat, You keep the horns. 490 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: I'll come back out here next summer go fishing, and 491 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: I'll get them. And he said, okay, I'll keep your 492 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: gun too. I said, no, I'll keep my gun. He said, no, 493 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: if they if they catch us with that gun. I 494 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: knew what he wanted to do with that gun. He 495 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: had already had his eye on that old model seventy. 496 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: And I said, no, I'll take it. I said, tell 497 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: you what, I'm taking the gun. If we get caught, 498 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: I'll put it on my horse. He said, okay, he said, 499 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: but I'd rather just you pick that up. 500 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 2: When is this actually your gun? 501 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: Yes, it's actually my gun. 502 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 2: You weren't about to let him steal it from No. 503 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: No, And he he had been known of doing people 504 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: that way, and then when they had contact him, he 505 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: would make up lies, like one of the cases was 506 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: somebody broke into my house and stole all those guns, 507 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, but he was selling them. So 508 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: this guy was bad all the way around. So that's 509 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: what we did. We packed out across the park, left 510 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: the meat. 511 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: No get Now, what would you have done if you'd 512 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: have got caught back there? Would you just had to 513 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: kind of gone through the system for a lot to 514 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: go one through the system. I mean they probably would have. 515 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: Would they have arrested you, probably arrested me and you 516 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: just had to kind of. 517 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: Go through the process. But the park superintendent knew, so 518 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: once it reached. 519 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: The search lace at some point they would have been like, Okay, 520 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: this guy's so they. 521 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: Get me out and I come home. So time passes. 522 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: Of course, I send all the evidence, the video, your 523 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: video camera, Yeah, I sent it there, and I had 524 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: an undercover phone at my house. And uh, two days 525 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: before they served the search warrant, I was notified by 526 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: State of Montana and the Forest Service. It was a 527 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: federal search warrant. They seize all his records, you know, 528 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: any evidence associated legal outfitting, and try to find out 529 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: other clients. So I knew the day that the search 530 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: forant was getting ready to happen, So I stayed around 531 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: undercover phone that day. Of course, he. 532 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: Still didn't know, so he left on good terms. 533 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: Well, I left on good terms, and I was gonna 534 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: come back out and get my horns and get my 535 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: meat and do some fishing next summer. Yeah about let's 536 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: see that. That would have probably been February or March 537 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: when they served the warrant. They waited, you know, a 538 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: good while. They let the season right on, and my 539 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: phone rings and it was him and he begins to 540 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: tell me. He said, manam I got bad news. What 541 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: is it? I don't know how this happened. You know, 542 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: my house just got raided and they took your horns, 543 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: They took your meat, they took everything. And I acted 544 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: mad and I said, but how why you know this 545 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: isn't right? He said, well they got some other people's 546 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: meat and their horns too, And he said, took all 547 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: my records. And he said they may be able to 548 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: look you up, because I'd written some records down in 549 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: some notebooks of mine. But if they look you up, 550 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: you need to do me a favor. And I said, 551 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: what's that? He said, you remember that video that you took. 552 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: I said, oh yeah. He said, make sure you get 553 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: rid of that I'll never forget. I told him, I 554 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: said that video is in a safe place. 555 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 556 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: So he was really hammered. The courts really hammered him good. 557 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: And I don't remember the exact but it was ten 558 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: thousand dollars fine and lost a hunt license for like 559 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: five years. So it turned out to be a pretty 560 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: good case in that area. I was so glad to 561 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: get him removed because we have so few areas that 562 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: are prestine and they need to be protected. Those legal 563 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: outfitters have the right to take people and have a 564 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: good experience with that the interference of somebody like that. 565 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy the hunt, but I enjoyed the outcome. 566 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. So did you take any flag for killing an elk? 567 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: No? 568 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: None, none. They just just you just had to do. 569 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: It, yep, And I'd stand by it today. 570 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 3: That was a wild story. 571 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine the complexity of being in a 572 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 2: situation like Russ was, in the added stress of no 573 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: modern communication aids. These two stories of him getting run 574 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: over in this Yellowstone case were just two that stood 575 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: out to him in all these years, and we know 576 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: that there were many many more. As a little foreshadowing 577 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: there will actually be one more story that'll be dropped 578 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: on this feed as an extra bear grease drop, which 579 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: we've never done before, so be looking out for that. 580 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: Russ would retire as the Assistant Special Agent in charge 581 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: of the Southern Region of the US for the Forest Service, 582 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 2: which encompassed all the national forests in thirteen states. 583 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 3: He had thirty years of. 584 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: Service from nineteen eighty five to twenty fifteen. But that 585 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: wouldn't be the end, and unexpectedly things seemed to get 586 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: even more complex. Here's the final chapter of Russ's career. 587 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 2: In overtime, you might say. 588 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: So, I had a great career, had a tough last year. 589 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, I lost my dad. It's my best friend. 590 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: Part of me was kind of lost then because I 591 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: always loved sharing my stories and that was a bond 592 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: I had with my dad that a lot of people 593 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: don't understand that and he loved here in the glories 594 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: of all these things that we've talked about. And retired 595 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen, and you know, I had 596 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: plans to just kind of you know, I've got a 597 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: little farm down in North Georgia on the Conasauga river, 598 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: and I had plans of fulfilling building a wood shop 599 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: down there. I love piddling woodworking. You know, I've made 600 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: a few turkey calls I wanted to get back into that. 601 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: I hadn't had time, and so I was kind of 602 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: working on cleaning the farm up and getting ready to 603 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: start this project when I got a got a call 604 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: from my old boss and he said, Russ Man, would 605 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: you be interested in doing some international travel? And he said, 606 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: the international programs within the Forest Services starting up a 607 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: program on training some of these Southeast Asian countries on 608 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: conservation law enforcement. 609 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 2: I'm not sure how all this went down, but I 610 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: envision a hardened team of gray haired men in a 611 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: small dark room looking at a map of the world, 612 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: discussing the various and sundry wildlife problems a form of 613 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 2: plan of action that. 614 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: They need a man for the job. 615 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 2: Many names are thrown out, but all of them disqualified 616 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 2: until a man seated in the back who hadn't spoken 617 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: up yet, says, I may know a guy and his 618 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: name is Russ Arthur, but by now he's probably huddled 619 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: around a woodstove making turkey calls, drinking coffee in the 620 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: hills of East Tennessee. 621 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 3: There's no way he'll take the job. 622 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: But will you call him, they say, and he says, yeah, 623 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 2: I'll call Russ. That is probably not the way that 624 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 2: it happened. And Russ is probably going to be mad 625 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 2: at me and embarrassed that I'm trying to make him 626 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 2: look like a hero, because I think that he is. 627 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 2: That was never his intent with telling these stories. I 628 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: had to pride these stories out of him, but we did. 629 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 2: And Russ was the man for this job. Here's what 630 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: the mission entailed. 631 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: Well, tell me more about it. And he explained to 632 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: me that it's kind of a new program. You know, 633 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: the international programs with the Forest Service has been around 634 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: for a long time, very well respected arm of the agency. 635 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: Some of these other countries had been depleted, just like 636 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: our country had been depleted from the timber industry back 637 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: in the twenties, thirties, and forties. These countries have gone 638 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: through it in more recent times, so it was kind 639 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: of a natural fit. Some of the things that we 640 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: experienced that were during negatives we learned from and our 641 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: agency worked with these other countries to help mitigate some 642 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: of their losses and get their resources back manageable and 643 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: once they got their resources back manageable and they started 644 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: establishing areas or parks or whatever the respective country called that, 645 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: then they they looked and said, well, you know now, 646 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: then we need to train a workforce. 647 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 3: To protect those He took the job. 648 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: Our first trip was to Cambodia, and Cambodia was a 649 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: It was an eye opener. I had never traveled that 650 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: extent in my life and for a country boar from 651 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: East Tennessee, just going through customs was a was an experience. 652 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: And we trained eighteen rangers men the other two and 653 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: it was it was called a pilot program. It was 654 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: a one week training only, and the training consisted of 655 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: just basic skills that we use in America for negotiating 656 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: the woods, if you will, kind of field craft things, 657 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: how to how to get from point A to point 658 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: B with a map and a compass, how to communicate silently, 659 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: how who work as a team. You'd teach a skill 660 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: set in the class and then go out and practice it. 661 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: The next day. You'd add another skill set on top 662 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: of that, and you'd go practice both those skill sets, 663 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: and by the end of the week you put all 664 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: the skill sets together to where they have to go 665 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: through the woods quietly, use a map and compass, locate 666 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: a fake poacher's camp, surround it quietly, and take down 667 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: a role player that's in the camp as a poacher. 668 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: So that's kind of and they had never worked in 669 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: that concept before, so that was very interesting. The guys 670 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: there appreciating the training so much. It was very rewarding. 671 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: They wanted more handouts, you know, they wanted more material 672 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: on it, they wanted more field time, they wanted more exercises. 673 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: Could we stay another week and do it again? And 674 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: I get it. This was new to them. A lot 675 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: of this was new to them, but it was very 676 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,959 Speaker 1: rewarding that that training was that appreciated. 677 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 2: What kind of stuff are these guys up against? 678 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: Well, each country has a different and I've been to 679 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: five different countries now, and each country has a unique 680 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: and different challenge and it's all based on, you know, 681 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: the type of force they have and the type of 682 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: wildlife that they have. In Sri Lanka, there's four thousand 683 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: elephants over there, and Sri Lanka is a country the 684 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: size of West Virginia, so that's a pretty good population 685 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: and there's no honey, but they have a lot of 686 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: issues and conflicts, and they have a lot of human 687 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: and elephant interactions, and they have some poaching, but it's 688 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: it is a completely protected species. In Sri Lanka, they 689 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 1: have a several protected areas and parks set aside where 690 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: people can go visit, but you have to stay on 691 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: designated trails, you have to go with a guide. And 692 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: they have species like a leopard. There's four hundred leopards 693 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: in Sri Lanka. That's not many leopards if you think 694 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: about it. It's a very important challenge for that country 695 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: to continue to protect that species. So you know, like 696 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: I said, each country has has a different set of challenges. 697 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,479 Speaker 1: The exportation of illegal wood in some countries is big, 698 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: a lot of illegal wildlife trade. It could be it 699 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: could be turtles, it could be reptiles, it could be snakes. 700 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: There's there's a huge illegal you know trade and wildlife 701 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: h That first class we taught really got humbled. Uh. 702 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: We learned that not only do these guys have very 703 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: long shifts in the jungle by themselves or with a 704 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: team of five, well, this particular country they only allowed 705 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: one firearm per team. That that was their policy, and 706 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: they lose two to four officers a year to poachers. 707 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: That's just that's just unacceptable, and it's and it's really 708 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,919 Speaker 1: it really hurts because when you when you leave there 709 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 1: and you look there, there's eighteen, which one or two 710 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: is going to be gone next year, and you've developed 711 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: this bond with them, in this relationship, and you're thinking, gosh, 712 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: these guys are just so dedicated. But it was a 713 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: it's a prestigious job to have over there. It's but 714 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,479 Speaker 1: it's a very, very dangerous job. 715 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,240 Speaker 2: In the United States, wildlife officers killed in the line 716 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 2: of duty isn't unheard of, but thankfully it's not common. 717 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: When you consider the small number of officers over there 718 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 2: compared with the thousands that are here, that statistic of 719 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 2: these guys getting killed over there really hits home. 720 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: The involvements that I've had in the overseas has been 721 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: Sri Lanka, Whuzbekistan, Vietnam, Nepaul, and in every one of 722 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: those countries, they they've got a huge passion for protecting resources. 723 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: They have they have done a tremendous job independently of 724 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: establishing protected areas. They've done a tremendous job of establishing agencies. 725 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: They've done a tremendous job of education on wildlife practices 726 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: and management practices, and some very good surveys and studies 727 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: and population you know, densities, and so they're they're doing 728 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: all of that, but it's relatively new to have these 729 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: areas set aside that's being restricted now. And imagine if 730 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: our national parks in America and our National forest in 731 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: America were just established fifteen or twenty years ago, the 732 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: problems that we would face with amount of population that's 733 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: been accustomed to using that land, with those villages over 734 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: there have been accustomed to using that land for their fuel, wood, 735 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: using that land for their food, using that land for 736 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: you know, whatever it provided. And they have a lot 737 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: of unique plant species and medicinal things that can be 738 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: collected out there that are sensitive, and so the agencies 739 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,399 Speaker 1: are now having to protect that. And they do have 740 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: an advantage in most of these countries that would be 741 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: a disadvantage to us. And that advantage is in most 742 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,919 Speaker 1: of these countries they allow honey m and if they do, 743 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: it's a very specific species with a very specific amount 744 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: of that can be taken and very very regulated, you know, 745 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: so so it comes with a cost. They're protected areas 746 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: you can't just enter. They're national parks, you can't. You 747 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,760 Speaker 1: have to go with a licensed guide on a trail 748 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: or a road, and there's no wandering if you will 749 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: into a lot of these areas. So it's very regulated 750 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 1: and they're pretty cut and dry. Either you can't be 751 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: in there, you can't be in there. 752 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 2: Well, I guess that makes for some bad criminals though. 753 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 754 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 2: I mean it's like if I can imagine, if I 755 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 2: imagine if a Yellowstone you could not be in there, well, 756 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: you'd either be legal beagle when you were in there, 757 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 2: or you'd be an absolute outlaw. 758 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. Wow. 759 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,919 Speaker 2: What makes you appreciate the way things are here? 760 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: Is it after my first trip and I have this 761 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: feeling and I've been over there, I think ten different 762 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,280 Speaker 1: countries now, I've made ten trips, and I feel the same. 763 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 1: On my way home. I feel proud of being America, 764 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: and I have an unprecedented of respect for what those 765 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: guys and girls are going through right now. I mean, 766 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: it's it almost saddens me because they're so passionate and 767 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: they got such an upheld battle. 768 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 2: Can you imagine having vast areas of wilderness? Probably some 769 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 2: of the only wilderness in that country that the access 770 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 2: was that tight and there was no hunting. Now I 771 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 2: realize we can't hunt in national parks, but they are 772 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 2: designed for access. It does make me appreciate America and 773 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 2: our model of wildlife management, which strives to give access 774 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 2: and incentive for stewardship to the common man. Even though 775 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 2: there are challenges to this model. Today we still got 776 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 2: pretty good, but we're gonna have to fight to keep 777 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 2: it that way. 778 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 3: Man. 779 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 2: As we come to a close of this two part 780 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 2: series about Russ Arthur and some of his stories, I'm 781 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 2: grateful for guys like Russ. And he was so clear 782 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 2: that these stories weren't about him. He had to tell 783 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 2: him from his perspective. But he always had teams of 784 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 2: great people around him, great supervisors and great friends that 785 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 2: had his back. And hey, here's one last thing before 786 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 2: you go. Here's a good squirrel and turkey story from 787 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,959 Speaker 2: Russ's nine year old grandson. I thought you guys might 788 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 2: enjoy this. 789 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 4: So we saw a squirrel in the front of the cabin. 790 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,959 Speaker 4: He kind of ran all around, couldn't get him because 791 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 4: I shot eyed once and then he went to the 792 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 4: back of the cabin. Who circled all around the cabin 793 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 4: couldn't find him. Then we went to the back we 794 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 4: found him. I shot him about three times before I 795 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 4: actually hit him. Then I hit him twice and he fell. 796 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 4: And then right after that we realized there was a 797 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 4: lot bigger squirrel right in front of him, and we 798 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 4: named him Fatty because he was huge. So we've tried 799 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 4: to get him since, but we still haven't. We've not 800 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 4: seen him, the. 801 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 2: One that got away, big one. Yes, Now, I got 802 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 2: a story that I want to hear. I heard about 803 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,240 Speaker 2: your turkey season. 804 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,280 Speaker 4: Well, we got invited to this private property that seemed 805 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 4: a really good spot, so we went up there early 806 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,280 Speaker 4: in the morning sometime. We went up there, we got 807 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 4: in our spot, we didn't hear anything much, so we 808 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:08,280 Speaker 4: moved down to below the mountain thing, and then we heard, 809 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 4: uh we heard two of them, So I tried to 810 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 4: call him up, like, uh yeah, pretty similar to that. 811 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 4: We called him up. We saw him coming from the 812 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,800 Speaker 4: top of the mountain where we were just before we moved, 813 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 4: so we called him down to where we were and 814 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,439 Speaker 4: we figured out there were two of them, and once 815 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 4: they got close enough, I shot at them. I missed 816 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 4: both of them, they jumped up and when they landed 817 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 4: they gobbled. 818 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was That was a good morning. And I 819 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: told him that if he were to be given a 820 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: score on hunting, he would have got ninety eight that morning. 821 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: And he wanted to of why ninety eight so high 822 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: and he didn't kill anything. I said, well, we planned 823 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 1: this hunt. We met with a landowner. There's work that 824 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: went into getting ready for the hunt. He got all 825 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,839 Speaker 1: this stuff ready the night before. We got up two 826 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,479 Speaker 1: hours before daylight, and we walked up on that mount 827 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,680 Speaker 1: before daylight. We stayed camoflaged. So you did ninety eight 828 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 1: percent of the things. 829 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 2: Right, just right at the end. Miss, that's it. 830 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: I asked him why he was breathing so hard. 831 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 4: It was more like I was so excited. I was 832 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 4: so excited because I've never seen a turkey up so 833 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 4: close and never actually got a chance to shoot one. 834 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 2: So your heart was beating pretty fast. 835 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was pretty nervous, felt like that before kind of. 836 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 2: Maybe with that big old fat square Yeah, with a squirrell. 837 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to Bear Grease and Brent's 838 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 2: This Tree Life podcast. You can help us in three 839 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 2: ways by sharing our podcast with your friends and your family, 840 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 2: and by supporting our sponsors, these guys are actually meaningful 841 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 2: to us, and you can leave us a review on iTunes, 842 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 2: and don't forget about watching the bear grease render on 843 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,400 Speaker 2: Meat Eater's new podcast YouTube channel. 844 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 3: See you next week.