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Speaker 1: Also media, Oh, welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a

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Speaker 1: podcast that.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to right now. And this is part two

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Speaker 2: of our episodes on Volkswagen's slave plantation in Brazil, So

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Speaker 2: you probably know what's going on here. You're not dropping

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Speaker 2: into part two of this specific episode just on your own.

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Speaker 2: That would be weird.

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Speaker 3: I hope not.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

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Speaker 4: They'll both be depressing. But yeah, to just pick this

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Speaker 4: second part of it.

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Speaker 2: That's maniac shit. That's like fifty one fifty shit right,

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Speaker 2: Like that's a seventy two hour hold for you see

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Speaker 2: count Yeah, what do you? What are you doing? And

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Speaker 2: we're coming in, of course on the day that Diddy

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Speaker 2: just got sentenced, So that's fun. Have you have you

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Speaker 2: caught this yet? This happened in between us a recording

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Speaker 2: part one. In part two, the court art is something

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Speaker 2: else very special. He does not look happy. Oh I

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Speaker 2: had hoped for more than that, but yeah, he's more

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Speaker 2: than four years so it's not it's I don't know

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Speaker 2: what do you want?

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Speaker 1: This is?

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Speaker 2: This is twenty twenty five, Like.

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Speaker 3: I am like, wow, he meant trial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's going he's staying in prison. He's not

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Speaker 2: gonna get time served what he already did. That's not nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's sad that like I'm looking at that and being like, well,

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Speaker 2: I I was worried it would be worse. But look

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Speaker 2: at this picture of him. I'm also I'm really vibing

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Speaker 2: on this, uh this drawing. I love good court art. Yeah, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's beautiful. He does not look happy. His hair is

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Speaker 2: totally white. Also, this has to be a choice that

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Speaker 2: clearly it looks like a bailiff behind him. You can

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Speaker 2: see they've like drawn his badge, and it looks like

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Speaker 2: an anarchy circle a symbol on the bailiff's badge. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why it made that choice.

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Speaker 3: You are not you're not reading into it. To my

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Speaker 3: untrained eye, Absolutely, that.

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Speaker 2: Is a circle a right, Like that's just a circle

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Speaker 2: a hell. Yeah, Let's let's talk about something that makes sense,

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Speaker 2: you know, something, something that makes us feel good, that

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Speaker 2: makes us feel optimistic. Oh wait, no, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: slavery in Brazil. We're not talking about any of that

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Speaker 2: at all, Maggie. You want to plug anything before we

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Speaker 2: get back into talking about Brazil slave plantations, Well, volkswagons

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Speaker 2: in Brazil.

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Speaker 5: I need yeah, I am so excited to get back

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Speaker 5: into talking about that. But in case you need a

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Speaker 5: little bit of a headspace before, Yeah, you can check

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Speaker 5: out my YouTube channel. I do video essays on cultural

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Speaker 5: stuff and film. And then yeah, over on Nebula, there's

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Speaker 5: a nice little show Amy's at in dream House, kids

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Speaker 5: show for adults, adult topics under the guys of a

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Speaker 5: kid show.

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Speaker 3: We don't, however, cover.

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Speaker 5: Business practices, so I think we'll cover that here today

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Speaker 5: in the.

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Speaker 3: Second part of this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, maybe just give some advice. Yeah, we'll be talking

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Speaker 2: a lot about that, and weirdly, I mean, we just

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Speaker 2: started talking about the strange bedfellows that politics make. But

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Speaker 2: like one of the good guys in this is the

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Speaker 2: Catholic Church, or at least a Catholic priest, which doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen often on this show, but it does happen more

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about Latin America, you know. So we've

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Speaker 2: got some liberation theology guys, So our Catholic listeners, this

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Speaker 2: is what you get to feel good about. Congratulations, you

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Speaker 2: get one, you get one, You get one. Every now

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Speaker 2: and then we have a good priest who comes in

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Speaker 2: usually when we bring up the Catholic Church on the

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Speaker 2: podcast about bad People. It's a dark story, but not today,

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Speaker 2: Not today, folks. When the military hunters started putting out

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Speaker 2: feelers to multinational corporations seeing who might be interested in

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Speaker 2: investing in the Brazilian economy, VW executives weren't just going

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Speaker 2: along with the flow. They were eager supporters of the

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Speaker 2: military dictatorship. After the former left leaning president was forced out,

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Speaker 2: directors at Volkswagen were quoted as describing what had happened

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Speaker 2: as the restoration of a rational political order. Oh thank god,

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Speaker 2: we got rid of those democratically elected guys. You know,

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Speaker 2: some dudes with guns coming in as Germans. We feel

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Speaker 2: really confident that this is going to end.

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Speaker 5: Well, yes, I feel safe now, yeah, amongst my people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean again, these are guys. We're talking the

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Speaker 2: sixties and seventies here. So anybody who's over like forty

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Speaker 2: or fifty, you know what their background was, right, Like?

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Speaker 3: Wow do that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the people who are running this company

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Speaker 2: not great backstories, you know. Now. The irrational thing when

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Speaker 2: they talk about the dictatorship restoring a rational political order,

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Speaker 2: what they're saying is irrational is the idea that the

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Speaker 2: government of a country that Volkswagen might have profit interest

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Speaker 2: in would have any other priorities beyond maximizing the amount

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Speaker 2: of money that in multinational corporations could take out of

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Speaker 2: the country right. A write up by the Organization for

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Speaker 2: World Peace summarizes the reaction of members of the VW

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Speaker 2: board to these changes. Volkswagen board member Friedrich Wilhelm Schultzwank

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Speaker 2: rejoiced when secret police arrested trade union leaders on factory premises.

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Speaker 2: In so doing, he endorsed a regime that perceived its

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Speaker 2: own citizens as mindless autonatons, that committed widespread torture, that

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Speaker 2: ran hidden concentration camps to repress uncooperative indigenous tribes, and

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Speaker 2: precipitated the environmental destruction of the Amazon. Oo. Guy, Friedrich

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Speaker 2: Philhelm schultzwank, huzzah, the secret police have arrested union organizers.

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Speaker 1: Woo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Nazis didn't go away. They just moved around

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Speaker 2: a little bit. They shuffled, you know.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: There's a good chumbawmba song about that. Now. As I

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Speaker 2: noted earlier, Volkswagen was participating in a wider system embraced

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Speaker 2: by the military junta and a lot of foreign corporations

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Speaker 2: that's had a profit interest in Brazil, which is a

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Speaker 2: large country. There's always been a lot of money in

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Speaker 2: selling to and utilizing Brazil's natural resources. That OWP write

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Speaker 2: up lists other corporations like Mitsubishi, Nesley, Goodyear, Swift, Bomber, Indus,

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Speaker 2: and Anderson Clayton Is all investing in Brazil during this

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Speaker 2: period at the express request of the military dictatorship. The

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Speaker 2: whole reason these companies wanted to work in Brazil is

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Speaker 2: because the junta would let you tear apart the Amazon,

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Speaker 2: which climate science is generally considered to be the lungs

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Speaker 2: of the world for quick profit, and because labor unions

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Speaker 2: and the rights of workers were among the first things

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Speaker 2: cracked down on by the dictatorship. There was no oversight

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Speaker 2: for how your workers were treated, So you could really

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Speaker 2: turn a profit doing this, right, as long as you

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Speaker 2: didn't care about how certain people were treated, right Arido. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean obviously nothing like this has ever happened before

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Speaker 2: or since. This is the only time this happened, just

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Speaker 2: in Brazil, just these companies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, uh huh.

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Speaker 2: So from nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty six, Vocal

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Speaker 2: Swagon operated their para state farm through a local subsidiary

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Speaker 2: and tried to generate a profit from ranching and logging.

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Speaker 2: It's unclear to me how many workers were victimized during

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Speaker 2: the span of time. Court filings have since indicated at

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Speaker 2: least three hundred people were hired through what were known

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Speaker 2: as irregular contracts some sources I found with the real

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Speaker 2: number it close to one thousand people. One of the

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Speaker 2: only ways to escape was through contracting malaria or some

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Speaker 2: other serious illness, and this was not always a way

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Speaker 2: to escape, but sometimes you could get out because they

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Speaker 2: just didn't want to deal with you. There was no

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Speaker 2: real medical care for workers beyond the most basic treatment

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Speaker 2: of wounds, and sometimes you couldn't even count on that.

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Speaker 2: Depending on when and where it happened, it was uncommon

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Speaker 2: in some cases for workers to have any kind of

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Speaker 2: medical treatment for even those basic injuries. People on the

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Speaker 2: edge of death might be allowed to leave, but it

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Speaker 2: was at least as common for them to be worked

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Speaker 2: to death and disposed of. A twenty twenty four article

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Speaker 2: for The Intercept describes what was found at one graveyard

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Speaker 2: for enslaved laborers. Some of the bones were full of strings,

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Speaker 2: as if the person had been tied up before they died,

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Speaker 2: says Juselda Pereira, national director of the MST Landless Workers

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Speaker 2: Movements Production Sector. The crimes, however, were never properly investigated.

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Speaker 2: It was a very common logic to put the person

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Speaker 2: to work and then when she made some charge, they

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Speaker 2: sent her away and eliminated her on the way, explain

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Speaker 2: The sister of one such worker Isabelle Rodriguez, a pedagogue

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Speaker 2: and farmer who has been working at the MST for

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Speaker 2: thirty five years. And this is something you'll hear a lot,

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Speaker 2: specifically with Volkswagens workers. That a lot of these people,

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Speaker 2: they're not just worked to death and buried. Some of

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Speaker 2: them were strung up. This is a punishment when like

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Speaker 2: workers would refuse to work, when they would try to escape,

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Speaker 2: if they would get caught, if they would resist in

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Speaker 2: any way the gattos, they would be strung up and

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Speaker 2: sometimes hung until dead, you know, as a way to

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Speaker 2: make sure everyone else kept working.

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Speaker 5: Right right, right, right, Yeah, there's a many parallels to

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Speaker 5: you know, a lot of the fishing industry. They also,

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Speaker 5: you know, trap people out on a boat contenuous contract

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Speaker 5: they can't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, these are the kind of things there's

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Speaker 2: no oversight, any sort of like unionizing, any sort of

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Speaker 2: like workers' rights has been utterly cracked down on by

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Speaker 2: the regime, Which is part of what's appealing to volkswag

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Speaker 2: Right is that they can just have these contractors do

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Speaker 2: whatever as far as they're concerned. There's no one policing

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Speaker 2: how they treat these people. As that previous quote said,

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Speaker 2: they're not looking at these workers as human beings. These

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Speaker 2: are automatons. They're robots. You plug them in, you work

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Speaker 2: them until they break, and then you throw them away,

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Speaker 2: and if one of them isn't working right, you string

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Speaker 2: them up as an example to the others, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, and there's still no cars.

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Speaker 2: They're not making cars. They're clearing they're clear cutting forests

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Speaker 2: for cows, right right right, even in your wheelhouse, v W,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck?

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Speaker 3: I just need that to sink it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This would be like if cool

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Speaker 2: Zone Media started a cattle farming. It's like, this is

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Speaker 2: so far outside of our wheelhouse, Like why are you

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Speaker 2: even for the first like even outside of the ethical stuff,

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Speaker 2: why are you in this business? Yeah? The answer is

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Speaker 2: they thought they'd make a buck. They didn't because labor

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Speaker 2: rights and organizing had been so comprehensively shattered by the

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Speaker 2: military junta. The first outside entity to look into the

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Speaker 2: horrifying situation at Volkswagen's farm was a Catholic priest named

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Speaker 2: Riccardo Rizinde. As a new priest and a young man,

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Speaker 2: he was stationed at a diocese in the Para state,

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Speaker 2: relatively close to the Volkswagen ranch. He was made the

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Speaker 2: regional coordinator for the Bishop's Conference Land Pastoral Commission, or CPT,

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Speaker 2: which was formed in nineteen seventy five to support peasants

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Speaker 2: and rural workers. Now, it would be fair to say that,

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Speaker 2: like the CPT, it's good attempt, but it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like a band aid on an arterial wound, right, But

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Speaker 2: this is also the only kind of oversight for poor

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Speaker 2: workers that exists during the military Today, tatorship unionizing has

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Speaker 2: effectively been like, I mean, people are being put in

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Speaker 2: secret concentration camps for like being labor organizers, right, But

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Speaker 2: you can't do that to the Catholic Church. I mean

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Speaker 2: you can't. Obviously, some priests and nuns throughout Latin America

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Speaker 2: who are part of the same liberation theology which we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about things rezinde are killed, are assassinated, But you

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Speaker 2: can't whole scale, if you're the military, Huntu, you can't

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Speaker 2: just go after the Catholic Church whole hog, right, Like

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Speaker 2: that is a bridge too far because everyone's Catholic basically, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: if you do that, you are going to get in.

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Speaker 2: It's the same problem the Nazis had right where they

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Speaker 2: didn't like the Catholic Church. Himmler especially saw it as

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Speaker 2: an enemy, but they had to co opt and work

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Speaker 2: with it, because you can't just ban Catholicism in Germany

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Speaker 2: like that is going to get you in trouble like that,

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Speaker 2: even the Nazis didn't feel like they had enough of

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Speaker 2: a handle on things to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the six you know, right, you're right.

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Speaker 2: Right, you have to care somewhat about how much you're

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Speaker 2: pissing these people off because these are kind of these

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Speaker 2: are the people who are real people in your state, right,

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Speaker 2: And so we can argue that like this land Pastoral Commission,

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Speaker 2: it's not like enough, there should have been much more here.

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Speaker 2: But Resenda and his diet is he's get a lot

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Speaker 2: of credit because they are They are the only people

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Speaker 2: who can really do something right because they have some

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Speaker 2: ability to operate under the junta without getting just completely annihilated.

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Speaker 2: And would be fair to say, again, while this is

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Speaker 2: not on its own a sufficient thing in order to

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Speaker 2: replace what's been lost in the crackdown on workers' rights,

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Speaker 2: Father Azende is a pretty admirable person in all of this,

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Speaker 2: I think, and he is unusually dedicated to the spirit

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Speaker 2: of his work. As I noted earlier, Resende was a

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Speaker 2: follower of what's known as liberation theology. This was at

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Speaker 2: the time a new creed that was particularly common in

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Speaker 2: the Latin American segments of the Catholic Church, and was

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Speaker 2: dedicated to a broad support for emancipation from every kind

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Speaker 2: of depression. Right, and Resinde personally considered the fight against

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Speaker 2: forced labor a sacred calling. Right, this was a religious

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Speaker 2: duty to him, which is good. Yeah, And he made

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Speaker 2: it known publicly that his office would investigate all serious

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Speaker 2: allegations that people were being forced to work. Resinda gets

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Speaker 2: moved into this program in nineteen seventy five, and he

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Speaker 2: first starts hearing allegations that Volkswagen has a plantation in

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Speaker 2: the Amazon and people are being enslaved there in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy seven. Two years later, very first claims come from

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Speaker 2: a union organizer named in tall Ribero, who said that

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Speaker 2: he had been hired by He was a former union organizer.

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Speaker 2: But he goes to Resinde and says that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was hired by these Gatto's and they forced to

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Speaker 2: pay me for my work. And he tells Resinde that like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a farm out there, it's guarded by people he

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Speaker 2: described as professional pistoliros. These are just you know, gunmen, right,

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Speaker 2: and that they were abusing workers, that there were hundreds

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Speaker 2: of people who weren't being allowed to leave, were being

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Speaker 2: held at gunpoint. So here's about this in seventy seven.

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Speaker 2: But all he's got is this one guy's claim. He

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Speaker 2: doesn't have hard evidence, he doesn't have like anything he

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Speaker 2: can really go to the state with. And this is

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Speaker 2: something where if you kind of go off half cocked

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Speaker 2: on this when you've just got this one and this

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Speaker 2: is a union organizer, so it's not someone that like

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Speaker 2: the government's going to take super seriously if you just

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Speaker 2: go off immediately right exactly, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah, they'll kill him, they'll all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, or they'll they'll clean up their act enough

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Speaker 2: that nothing else will get out right, So he resin Dae.

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Speaker 2: He does the hard thing, which is he keeps digging, right,

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Speaker 2: he keeps trying to collect accounts. He doesn't give up

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Speaker 2: on this, but he doesn't immediately pull the trigger on

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Speaker 2: it too, because he's trying to see, like, can I

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Speaker 2: get enough that I can make an unimpeachable case. He

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Speaker 2: gets a major shot in the arm to his efforts

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one when he meets his first escapee

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Speaker 2: from the ranch, Edevon Allen Carr, who told him quote,

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Speaker 2: a man tried to flee and was caught by Chico,

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Speaker 2: who's one of these gattos. Chico beat him with a beam.

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Speaker 2: So this is his first he's talked to this one

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Speaker 2: guy who had formerly worked there. Then he talks to

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Speaker 2: another guy who was like outright enslaved and had some

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Speaker 2: direct stories about like being tortured by these guards. So

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Speaker 2: he's kind of slowly starting to build this, like this

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Speaker 2: basis of accounts on what had happened. Albon Carr would

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Speaker 2: go on to provide extensive testimony both to the state

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Speaker 2: and to journalists with several publications including The Washington Post.

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Speaker 2: He accused Chico and his men of beating and disappearing laborers.

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Speaker 2: In one instance, he claims to have seen Chico another

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Speaker 2: Gattos burned down a parcel of forest filled with workers

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Speaker 2: who he believes were burnt to death. These men were

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Speaker 2: still working at the time, and they may have just

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Speaker 2: been murdered to save the Gattos the risk of freeing

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Speaker 2: them right that they were going to be like moving on,

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Speaker 2: And it kind of sounds like it was a situation

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Speaker 2: where they were like, we don't have anything to do

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Speaker 2: with these folks, but if we let them go, they'll

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Speaker 2: spread more stories. What if we just light them on

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Speaker 2: fire and burn down a chunk of the Amazon.

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Speaker 3: That one, that one, let's do that.

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Speaker 2: One, right, right, a perfect ad for Volkswagen right here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Volkswagen the hottest cars. And that's that's bleak. You know what,

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Speaker 2: forget I said that, here's some ads. Wow, we're back.

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Speaker 2: So Resinde is increasingly building up his kind of account

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Speaker 2: of what's been happening in this slave plantation, and as

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Speaker 2: he talks to more and more people, his investigation reveals

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Speaker 2: these kind of patchy and incomplete stories that nonetheless paint

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Speaker 2: a pretty bitter picture. Workers were being kept dozens of

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Speaker 2: miles away from the main Volkswagen compound. They bedded under

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Speaker 2: clear plastic sheets, and they drank unfiltered water. He wrote

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one of one woman who managed to flee, quote,

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Speaker 2: they fled through the forest because if they'd taken the road,

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Speaker 2: the gattos would have killed them. They walked one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty five kilometers. Now by eighty one, he's got

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Speaker 2: been doing this for three or four years. He wants

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Speaker 2: to take action to stop this, but the political situation

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Speaker 2: at the time makes that impossible, and Resinda's only able

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Speaker 2: to get away with anything at all because he's a

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Speaker 2: representative of the church. And even so he starts being

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Speaker 2: surveilled by the dictatorship. He's labeled a communist sympathizer and

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Speaker 2: a subversive, and the first witnesses he meets this isn't

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Speaker 2: enough for him to really go on yet, even four

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Speaker 2: years in so it's not until early nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 2: that this really gets blown open for him. He gets

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Speaker 2: approached by a group of young men who'd been hired

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Speaker 2: to work clearing land owned by Volkswagen. These kids had

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Speaker 2: all been part of a local soccer league in their hometown.

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Speaker 2: And one day a friend of theirs comes in. He's like, hey, guys, hey, buddies,

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Speaker 2: this guy's been out for a while. He's like, I'm

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Speaker 2: looking for men to do some contract work down south.

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Speaker 2: It pays great, it's a good job. Rezinde would write, quote,

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Speaker 2: among the five workers who fled the farm, three were

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Speaker 2: only seventeen. They were lured to work there not only

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Speaker 2: because of a promised payment, but also because they were

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Speaker 2: told that they would be to play soccer there. Oh yeah, soccer.

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Speaker 2: Who basically just be playing soccer the whole time? You know,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, who wouldn't want to get paid to

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Speaker 2: play soccer?

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Speaker 3: This is so theistic.

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Speaker 2: I will say, on the main Volkswagen ranch, there was

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Speaker 2: a soccer field. But laborers like this, the people who

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Speaker 2: are being enslaved to clear land, they're not allowed on

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Speaker 2: that compound facility, right.

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Speaker 3: Hey, they're not even near it, necessarily.

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Speaker 2: No miles away, it says. We'll talk about there are

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Speaker 2: some really nice facilities for regular employees who are like

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Speaker 2: managing this cattle farm. It's a pretty good job for

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Speaker 2: those people. It's the folks doing this backbreaking labor in

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Speaker 2: the jungle that are being treated this way, and so

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Speaker 2: they don't have access to the soccer field. Now, within

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Speaker 2: the main body of the camp, which is a mix

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Speaker 2: of there's some skilled local workers and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of foreign employees. Right, there's Germans, there's Swiss. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who have been brought in

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Speaker 2: their skills. And these men and their families enjoyed a

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Speaker 2: high quality of life. There were gardens, there were paved roads,

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Speaker 2: there were proper brick houses. There was a school for

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Speaker 2: children of workers. There was a club, a restaurant, and

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Speaker 2: a bar as well as a pool. Now, the kids

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Speaker 2: who had escaped, these seventeen year olds who flee home

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Speaker 2: to fucking make some money and play soccer. Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: tell father Azende that they didn't have access to any

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Speaker 2: of that stuff. They had been sold to a gatto

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Speaker 2: named Chico. This is our second time hearing about Chico. Right,

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Speaker 2: this is the guy who burnt down a forest with

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Speaker 2: people in it. He gets around, right, Yeah, Chico's a

375
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Speaker 2: busy man, and Chico made them work in a forest

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Speaker 2: labor camp under a coterie of armed men. One of

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Speaker 2: the kids died of malnutrition and malaria. Another was shot

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Speaker 2: in the leg trying to escape. A woman who worked

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Speaker 2: with them was raped when her husband escaped without her.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: On one occasion, one of the boys found a dead

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Speaker 2: man in the forest who had been strung up and

383
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Speaker 2: beaten to death. Yeah, and these are seventeen year olds. Now,

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Speaker 2: these kids do escape eventually, right, they weren't allowed to.

385
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Speaker 2: This is something that they they kind of managed to

386
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Speaker 2: make it out on their own because they they're in debt, right,

387
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Speaker 2: the Gatto says that they owe money, and the way

388
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Speaker 2: they're able to finally get out is they convince him

389
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Speaker 2: that they've been conscripted by the military. So, in other words,

390
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Speaker 2: they only got out of forced labor by convincing their

391
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Speaker 2: bosses that the state wanted to force them to work

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Speaker 2: for the military. Guy would get right, right, right, and

393
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Speaker 2: you'll get in trouble if you keep us right, we're expected,

394
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Speaker 2: you know. Like, that's how fucked up the situation is

395
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Speaker 2: for these kids.

396
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Speaker 4: That is so grave of them to do. They they go,

397
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Speaker 4: but they trying to go above him and it works.

398
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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, they're smart kids. So these kids get out

399
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Speaker 2: and there they are. This is kind of what blows

400
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Speaker 2: the case open for father Rezende. Right, he's got these

401
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: five kids who have like this just really hideously grave accounts,

402
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: and they're willing to like talk under their own names

403
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 2: about what's happened. They they're naming specific people, like this

404
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: is kind of what he'd been waiting for the whole time. Yeah,

405
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: and the boys told Father Zende that they expected at

406
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: least six hundred laborers were still stuck clearing land and

407
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 2: working as slaves. The priest, horrified, tried to schedule a

408
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 2: meeting with Yatar Barbelow, who was the state governor of

409
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Speaker 2: the Para state, and Rezende is refused initially, but this

410
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Speaker 2: does not dissuade him from pursuing the truth. So the

411
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Speaker 2: father flies to Brasilia with one of the escaped kids,

412
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Speaker 2: and he goes to the media and he gives a

413
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Speaker 2: press conference in a place that the hunter couldn't ignore,

414
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Speaker 2: the National Bishop's Conference of Brazil. The next day, newspapers

415
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 2: featured the headline Priests says, there are slaves on Volkswagen farm. Right,

416
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Speaker 2: So he takes this kid out in front and is like,

417
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Speaker 2: they can't crack down on a bishop's conference and they'll

418
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 2: have to pay attention to fight and said this is

419
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: a brave move. He's putting himself in danger, and this

420
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: kid is putting himself in danger to do this. But

421
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Speaker 2: it works. Part of why it works is that the

422
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 2: German media picks up the story. You know, the resilient

423
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 2: media is very much under control of the regime. But

424
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Speaker 2: Volkswagen's a German company, and Germany has a free press,

425
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Speaker 2: and the German free press are like, hey, VW, this

426
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: sounds pretty bad.

427
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Speaker 3: This sounds familiar and bad.

428
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Speaker 2: As Germans, we're kind of we're kind of sensitive about

429
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Speaker 2: slave labor allegations. What's going on down there? Now. VW

430
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: denies everything, of course, but they couldn't entirely ignore what

431
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: had come out, so they decided to authorize a fact

432
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: finding mission to quote shed light on the truth. This

433
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: is like the standard playbook of like, oh well, this

434
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: is definitely not true, but just to make sure you

435
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: know everybody knows how not true it is, we're gonna

436
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: we'll send a fact finding mission.

437
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 3: Get the We'll send them.

438
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, we got it. Yeah, come over here, father,

439
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: we'll take care of this. You know, we'll get you

440
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 2: up with some local politicians. We'll take you to the

441
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: our rant and you can see how nice it really

442
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: is right. So Volkswagen invites a bunch of their critics

443
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: to visit the ranch and see what they claimed was

444
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: the reality. One of the men selected for this delegation

445
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: was sal Paulo state lawmaker Expedito Batista. Now, he had

446
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 2: actually worked in a Volkswagen factory previously and was likely

447
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: invited by the company executives because they were like, well,

448
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: this guy's a former employee, he'll be sympathetic to us, right.

449
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: This proved to be a miscalculation, Batista told OSV News,

450
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: a local publication quote. They just wanted to show me

451
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: the modern buildings they had recently built there. But I

452
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: asked for a truck that could take me to a

453
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: nearby city where I'd meet with father Razinde and the

454
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: local labor union leader. The vehicle had to take a

455
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: road that was not part of the visit planned by Volkswagen.

456
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: That's when Batista saw a farm truck carrying some people

457
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: and asked for it to be stopped. And this is Batista.

458
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: A worker had his arms tied and was being taken

459
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 2: by a labor contractor known as Abelau. I ordered them

460
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 2: to immediately release the man. Abilau argued that the worker

461
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: was trying to escape the farm, but that he was

462
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: in debt with it, so they had to get him back.

463
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: So they say, it what we got. We can't let

464
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: him just have luck for us for free, you know,

465
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 2: like he's got to pay to work for us, obviously,

466
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: But this guy's obviously been beaten and is clearly being

467
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: taken against his will to work. Like they've just stumbled

468
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: this delegation. Volkswagen brings them in to impress them with

469
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: how nice the main facility is, and this guy drives

470
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: and grabs the priest, and on their way back they

471
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: just stumble upon proof of forced labor.

472
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: Wild I said take the other road, I said, go.

473
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: The other We should have had him take the bus.

474
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: God damn it. Yeah, yeah, this is like, this is

475
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: like a Jurassic Park problem. Instead of the raptors getting loose,

476
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: it's this, This gotta is out of pocket and you know,

477
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: forcibly hauling a man back in chains. It's a lot

478
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: like your Asciic Park, it is.

479
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

480
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So now you've got not just these eyewitness accounts,

481
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: but now credible members of like this fact finding mission.

482
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that they've brought that they've brought here.

483
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: To a member of the clergy and elected leaders have

484
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: seen this going on, right, this is like the worst

485
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: case scenario for VW because you have pretty hard evidence now.

486
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

487
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 2: So the investigatory team, which now has the father with them,

488
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: heads back to the ranch and they do the original

489
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: meeting that they've been scheduled to have. They meet with

490
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: Volkswagen's corporate pr manager for Brazil, a guy named Paulo

491
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: de Castro, and they meet with the ranch's director, Friedrich Bruger,

492
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: who was a Swiss national. From an article in the

493
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: Washington Post quote, he touted its commitment to social service,

494
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: according to an account by a reporter who accompanied the delegation,

495
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 2: saying the farms three hundred and twenty eight direct employees

496
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 2: and their families had it great discounted food, free medical care,

497
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: quality schooling. The delegation said was not permitted to visit

498
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: the deforestation camps one day, though one of its laborers

499
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 2: managed to find them. He went straight to the priest

500
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: and touched his arm. The man's hand was hot with fever.

501
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: You have to save me, the priest recorded him, saying,

502
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: save you from what I've worked here for nine months

503
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: and I can't leave the man said, I have malaria

504
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: and I am sick, Padre, I want to leave. So

505
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: that's again pretty bad. This is how like they can't

506
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: even keep a little on this thing, the least bit.

507
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: As soon as these guys show up, they just start

508
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: stumbling into evidence of crimes against humanity.

509
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: Honestly, pretty incredible, like very Yeah. They made their own

510
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: pot and kettle and invited everyone to tea time two

511
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 3: parts ache.

512
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, No, they won't notice any They will show

513
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: him how nice our basketball court is. Yeah, play at

514
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: this club. Look at how good the food is here.

515
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: They're not going to notice the sick people begging them

516
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: to die. So the father goes to Bruger, who's this

517
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Swiss dude running the ranch, and he says, he tells

518
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: him there's a problem. Your hiding something, And Bruger says,

519
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: this isn't my problem, and he tells them it's the

520
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: Gatto's problem.

521
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: Right.

522
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: I got nothing to do with this, Uh huh. I'm

523
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 2: only responsible for these workers who are being treated well.

524
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: Because these guys are actual employees of the Volkswagen subsidiary.

525
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: I can't how could I possibly expect to know what's

526
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 2: happening ten miles away? With the guys that I'm paying

527
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: to make other guys work for them.

528
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: I want to hit into the detail, you know, when

529
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: you get cor in your room like that. Obviously, but yeah.

530
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: Right, obviously yeah, yeah, how much can you expect me

531
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: to do? You know, I'm sitting here, I'm in the

532
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: jungle and pretending not to hear the screams. Nothing else

533
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: is my job, obviously, right.

534
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 5: I also love the Catholic priests being uh I.

535
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: Know a liar. Uh, I know, I know many liars,

536
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: and I can see that in you.

537
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm a Catholic priest, like I have met

538
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: I have met better liars than you. Like It's kind

539
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: of my job.

540
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yeah, you're hiding something and I want to know.

541
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

542
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: So, on their way out of the area, the delegation

543
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: actually runs into one of the gattos, this guy we

544
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: talked about him a little bit earlier to Abilau, who

545
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: was driving back into camp and his Chevy truck quote

546
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: wearing a cross necklace and a cowboy hat, which really

547
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: must have pissed off the father, Like you're wearing a

548
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: fucking cross, Well you're do Come on, man in a

549
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: Chevy did take it off to do the slavery stuff,

550
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: at least.

551
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: It feels like it's on purpose.

552
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: At this point, he's the right, right, like, yeah, I

553
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: feel kind of like you're just insulting the faith here.

554
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: So they run into this guy Abilao, who's driving back

555
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: to camp. He's got his cross as cowboy hat on

556
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: and Rezende questions him about the mistreatment of the workers,

557
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: and the Gatto's like, I don't use violence. I just

558
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: use energy to keep my workers in line, right, Just energy,

559
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: you know, kinetic.

560
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: Energy, energy like jazz hem.

561
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: It's not hitting, it's kinetic energy. Yeah, oh yeah, he insisted,

562
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: quote they're nasty goats and vagaball that take my money

563
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: then disappear into the forest. And he bragged that just

564
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: sixteen out of four hundred and eight workers on the

565
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: ranch had fled and gotten away that year. One unsuccessful

566
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: fugitive was in the back of his truck when the

567
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: investigators found it. Abilau insisted the man had been eating

568
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: more than he could afford and thus couldn't be freed again.

569
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Now he's eating too much. We can't just let this

570
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: guy go, right, We can't.

571
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 3: Let this man be eating and sending him no.

572
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: Right, this is a lot that they found and the

573
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: delegation they put together enough info on this trip that

574
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: it forces the state police to open an investigation. So

575
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: police officers come in and they talk with laborers, they

576
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: talk with the Gattos, with Volkswagen contractors, and they make

577
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: a report which they send to the State Security Chief.

578
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: And the state Security chief writes a letter to the

579
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: governor in late nineteen eighty three which concluded that the

580
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: Gattos quote treat their contracted workers like slaves.

581
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: Wow.

582
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's good, that's pretty directly. Security chief is

583
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: a guy named Arnaldo Filo who concluded that VW wasn't

584
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: directly guilty of any criminal action, but that it had

585
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: responsibility for what had happened by omission. And he says, quote,

586
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: it's impossible that everything investigated inside the limits of its

587
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: property occurred without any knowledge or action on its part.

588
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: And I might say, so, why is any responsible? Why

589
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: doesn't he have any responsibility here? Right? Like that kind

590
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: of seems like you're responsible if you like knew what

591
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: was happening and you had the resources to have stopped

592
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: it and you chose not to. Yes, but yeah.

593
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: It's a little more active than yeah, just not you know,

594
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: not disclosing. Uh huh.

595
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: It seems like pretty damning to me, But you know,

596
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: I'm not an expert on Brazilian law, so I suspect

597
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: this is just partly one of those things where it's

598
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: like it's probably a mix of corruption and also well

599
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: if I, if I go too far, they might sue me.

600
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 2: And he's kind of a little bit of a coward.

601
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's kind of my interpretation of it,

602
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: as he doesn't want to like go too far, you know,

603
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: and maybe get out of pocket here. But yeah, that's

604
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: partly me kind of drawing that out. Yeah, yeah, I

605
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: think that's like a fair conclusion here. So several weeks

606
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: after this all happens, the father gathers with a group

607
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: of bishops in the state capitol along with the governor

608
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: who we talked about earlier, barbelow and Barbelo makes a

609
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: public statement during this gathering that his office is now

610
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: looking into the case, which would be referred once he

611
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: makes a conclusion, to the federal prosecutor's office. So he's like, hey,

612
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: I'm taking this seriously. Once my people come to a conclusion,

613
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: we will send this up the ladder so it can

614
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: be prosecuted. You know, at the highest possible level. And

615
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: this was a lie. I think it was just a

616
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: delaying tactic.

617
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: Okay, you said so, huh, like you really meant it?

618
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't get shit. A full

619
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: year later, the ranch is still operating and no action

620
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: has been taken against BW or her subsidiaries. There's no

621
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: evidence that he had his office refer anything to the

622
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: federal prosecutor's office. I think he just did this to

623
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: buy time.

624
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, already forgot about.

625
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: It, or we forgot about it. He's a busy man,

626
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: you know, right, right, right, Look, you can't keep track

627
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: of all of the slavery happening in your state, right

628
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: like that just obviously an unreasonable ask.

629
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: There's so many trees to cut down. That's just one,

630
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: right part of it, all that I gotta cut.

631
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, people can hide in forests, people can hide burning

632
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: people to death in the forest. You know, it's just

633
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: too much work for one man and all of his employees.

634
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: So in August of nineteen eighty four, there's another delegation

635
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: sent to the ranch. A group of state labor officials

636
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: visit and they conclude that nothing meaningful has changed, that

637
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: there's been no improvement in conditions, that workers are still

638
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: basically being treated as slaves by the Gattos, and they

639
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: further conclude that Volkswagen's ranch was quote a snapshot of

640
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: all the other farms in the region where humble and

641
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: illiterate laborers were easy prey for unscrupulous recruiters eyeing profits,

642
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: often with the complacency of the farm's owners. Still, nothing

643
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: gets done, no further steps are taken. By this point,

644
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: the governor has moved on from being the governor to

645
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: the Senate, which is probably why he never referred the

646
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: case to the state at all. He was delaying because

647
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: he was like, I'm not going to have this job.

648
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: I don't need this heat. I'm just going to like

649
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: wait until I can go do something else.

650
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: The shuffle, the Nazi shuffle. He's doing that into a

651
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: new yeah, the Nazi shuffle. Yeah.

652
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: Years later he's asked like, hey, why didn't you do

653
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: anything about this, And he's like, I don't remember this

654
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: at all. You're saying I said something I promised to

655
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: refer people to prosecute something. That doesn't sound like maybe

656
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: he did forget he forgot oh my job. No, yeah,

657
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: Now there must have been some other governor. So two

658
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: months after this, nineteen eighty four, this is the second

659
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: allegation to visit the ranch. State police finally arrest one

660
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: of the Gatto's Abalau, after investigations on two separate farms

661
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: unrelated to the Volkswagen farm turned up another one hundred

662
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: and seven enslaved workers working for this guy. The report

663
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: named that other Gatto, Chico, who'd provided workers for Volkswagen's

664
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: farm too, but they couldn't find him to prosecute, right,

665
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: So these guys, one of them is now being prosecuted,

666
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: the other they just can't find interest in. The case

667
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: dies down after this. Chico is investigated again two years later,

668
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: in July of nineteen eighty six, under suspicion of trafficking

669
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: workers in a nearby region, but again nothing comes of

670
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: the investigation. By nineteen eighty six, Volkswagen is kind of

671
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: looking at their balance sheet and they're like, this isn't

672
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: making us any money, right, and it never really does.

673
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: This is not a profitable enterprise. I kind of think

674
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: the point was never heard to be super profitable. They

675
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 2: would have liked that. I think the point is Volkswagen's

676
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: in business in Brazil and the military junta once companies

677
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,959
Speaker 2: doing stuff like this. So I think there's a large

678
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: portion of where their interest in this is less the

679
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: money it makes directly and more the relationship it helps

680
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: them build with the dictatorship. That's kind of my interpretation here.

681
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 5: Right, right, Yeah, it's it's you know, being paid in

682
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 5: exposure many people's lives and the livelihoods.

683
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly it. Yeah, speaking of paid and exposure,

684
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: we're not paid an exposure. We're paid by our advertisers.

685
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: And let's let's hear from them now and we're back.

686
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty six, Volkswagen closes down their operation,

687
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: they sell off their assets. They are cutting bait in

688
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: eighty six. Yeah, eighty six, Oh, because it's not mean

689
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: the workers who'd been enslaved there get freed, right, because

690
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: these guys are property of the gattos who still considered

691
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: these men indebted to them. So the ranch workforce is sold, right,

692
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: and this is very much a chattel slavery moment where

693
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: to try to get as much money as they can

694
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: out of this, these ghetto's are are splitting up their

695
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: labor force, in some cases splitting up family members in

696
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: order to auction workers off to the highest ba orienting.

697
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 2: They're splitting up families in the slave auction to get

698
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: rid of these Volkswagen fucking laborers.

699
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 3: For no profit.

700
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean Volkswagen doesn't make the gattos are

701
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: making bank. Don't get me wrong here.

702
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: Well, at least somebody, yeah.

703
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: Fine, yeah, yeah, at least one worker. Raoul is separated

704
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: from his brothers. He later told The Washington Post, I

705
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: can still see my brothers being put on the back

706
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: of a truck and taken away from me. For the

707
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: Posts reporting quote. Raoul said he spent the next four

708
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: months captive until a farmer helped him escape. He found

709
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 2: his way back home to his brothers, who had also

710
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: managed to flee, but Raoul discovered that his younger brother

711
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: was not the same. Over the years, his brother receded

712
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: further into his trauma. Today he no longer speaks. He

713
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: only nods and sways. Oh my god, that's great, good,

714
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: good stuff, all worth it for beef killing the rainforest.

715
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: Did they even get the cows part of all this

716
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: or did they.

717
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: Just they've got cows. It's just not very profitable compared

718
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: to how much it costs. The real reason they're doing

719
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: this is because it makes a government more inclined to

720
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: give VW other things they want. I don't think Volkswagen's

721
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: primary interest is directly profiting from this right. Right. So,

722
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,479
Speaker 2: for decades after the ranch closed his doors, the father

723
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: continued to collect accounts of former enslaved laborers. He eventually

724
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: documents sixty nine alleged victims, whose stories range from nineteen

725
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: seventy seven to nineteen eighty seven. Here are some relevant

726
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: examples from the document he puts together. Quote, we worked

727
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: Monday to Monday, often without eating. One man said they

728
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: promised to kill us. Another laborer, Jose to Sylvia twenty

729
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: nine of Annapolis, says they stopped on a laborer, broke

730
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 2: his teeth, brought him to the hospital, and put him

731
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: back to work in the jungle.

732
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

733
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Three men made an account in nineteen eighty nine

734
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: after escaping and told Rezende, quote, they tied up a

735
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: man and beat him in the forest, leaving him naked there.

736
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: Another survivor, ed Evon Dias Alan Carr, told the priest,

737
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,959
Speaker 2: they have a cave where they kill people and throw

738
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: the bodies in.

739
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

740
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: Cool stuff. Yeah, Volkswagen cave. Wow, driving wiles Volkswagen. We

741
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: got a cave for corpses. Yeah, we got a game.

742
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 2: Who look here at Volkswagen. We know that people are

743
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: concerned about our history and the slave laborers that were

744
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: mass murdered in concentration camps in Europe, and we promise

745
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: that'll never happen again. We have a cave for the corpses. Now,

746
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: you know, a wine cave.

747
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: It's the same thing.

748
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: But for boy, we're learning, we're growing. Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly,

749
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: so much better than a death camp. I mean, my god,

750
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: a death cave. Come on, it's a roof.

751
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: It's got a roof.

752
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 2: It's got a roof. It is a roof. So the

753
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: father documented everything he could. But again, even after this

754
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: branch closes, he has very little hope that any punitive

755
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: action would ever be taken, and it almost doesn't. It's

756
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: not until late twenty nineteen that a state prosecutor in

757
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: Brazil reopened an investigation on the Federal Slave Labor Division

758
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: into what had happened at Volkswagen's ranch, and he engages Resende,

759
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: who had to spend weeks traveling around rural communities finding

760
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: witnesses who would be able to come back on the

761
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: record and talk again about what they'd endure it right,

762
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: because they need to have people who are willing to

763
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: like show up in court and talk about a lot

764
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: of these people died. At this point. This is like

765
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: a this is a difficult effort for a man who's

766
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: not young. You know, this priest is not a young

767
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: man anymore, and he's got to really go around and

768
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: find these people, pull them out of you know, obscurity,

769
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 2: so that they can attempt to force some sort of accountability.

770
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: And they are somewhat successful here. The case does not

771
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: move rapidly. Again, I said, it starts in twenty nineteen,

772
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: and in twenty twenty two they finally wind up in

773
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 2: court and a lot of these survivors have a chance

774
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: to testify. Now Volkswagen had been in the process. They

775
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: had just been negotiating and admitted wrongdoing and like working

776
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: with the military junta, like this is a thing that

777
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: had happened not long before that, but they're not willing

778
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: to admit that they had anything to do with the

779
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: slave labor plantation or anything to do with like the

780
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: work of these gattos. They gave up after months of

781
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: negotiation with the Labor Ministry and refused to pay thirty

782
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: million dollars in reparations demanded by the government for their

783
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: past collaborations. In twenty twenty, the company had signed a

784
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: conduct adjustment agreement with the Public Prosecutor's Office, acknowledging that

785
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: it had supported the regime in several human rights violations,

786
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 2: but admitting to the enslavement of laborers on their isolated

787
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: ranch was a bridge too far. The case finally comes

788
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: to trial in twenty twenty five. Right, like they're starting,

789
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: there's some testimony and whatnot, but like it doesn't shake

790
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: out until this year. This is all reaching its conclusion

791
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: very recently. This is yeah.

792
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 5: The evils are usually described and they are evils, but

793
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 5: and often you know, there are echoes.

794
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 3: We're feeling now this is this is now.

795
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is right now, that this is coming to

796
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: some kind of conclusion.

797
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 3: This is right now.

798
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 2: Quote from the post Wow. The first person to testify

799
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 2: was Volkswagen's representative, Jose Tiro. He said that the company

800
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: didn't monitor human rights it's rigidly in those days, but

801
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: that it had investigated the allegations at the time and

802
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: didn't identify any irregularity. Then one by one, the laborers

803
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: came to the stand. We were sold, said Raoul Battista Desuza.

804
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: We slept under a black plastic sheet, said Pedro Vasconcelos.

805
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: They were all armed. We had to work, said Jose

806
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: Vianna Nunez. Finally, Rizende, who'd come from across the country,

807
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: rose to testify. If the priest hadn't slept my u

808
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: the night before and had woken angry, how could they

809
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: have permitted this crime he'd vented that morning and continued

810
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: to have permitted it. The court ultimately ruled against Volkswagen,

811
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 2: ordering them to pay one hundred and sixty five million

812
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: brol for collective moral damages. Volkswagen still denies any wrongdoing

813
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: and last I said, are appealing the case. And for

814
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: an example of how hideously company officials have refused to

815
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 2: acknowledge any wrongdoing, there's a very good article by DW

816
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: Deutsche Well, which is like a German publication by Estrid

817
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 2: di olivera Brazilian prosecutor summoned VW over slavery allegations. This

818
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: is from twenty twenty two. Quote the Swiss agronomist and

819
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: former manager of the cattle farm in Santana di Arraguya.

820
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: Friedrich Bruger, this is the guy we talked about earlier.

821
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: This is like the dude that met with Resindae when

822
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: the delegation show up. Describes the allegations that VW engaged

823
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: in modern slavery as complete nonsense, as if there were

824
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 2: nothing more important today than improving the past. He'd hold

825
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: a reporter. Oh yeah, like it's it's it's pretty hideous,

826
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 2: he says. The responsibility of a company in somewhere when

827
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: they are over a thousand men in one room. Things

828
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: aren't always gentle. That's obvious, especially in the middle of

829
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 2: a jungle h issuees and stuff that's happening in a room.

830
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: For one thing, you were clear.

831
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: In the true Yeah, it wasn't in the middle of

832
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 3: the jump.

833
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: It was a yeah. It was the jungle man like yeah,

834
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: like it's it's so fucked up, Like this fucking guy

835
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: Brugger needs to I mean he needs to be locked

836
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: up in a fucking cage somewhere. These are the kind

837
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 2: of things that people really need to pay for more often,

838
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: like the the fact that that that two thousand and

839
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 2: one law in Brazil where they're like we can take

840
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: all of your assets. If we find you holding slaves

841
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: like that's a good start. But they need to go

842
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: like especially Germany needs to go further for guys like this.

843
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: There's another infuriating quote from this motherfucker from a Washington

844
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: Post article, uh that I just have to read to you.

845
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: The brutality that happened, of course, doesn't surprise me at all.

846
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: The Brazilian is a bad person, he said. In the

847
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen interview with a German reporter. He blamed the

848
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: laborers for their own debts and defended the Gatto's alleged

849
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: use of violence. To keep a crowd under control, they

850
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: have to show a certain amount of strength.

851
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: Wow.

852
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: I mean he's Swiss, but still not beating the Nazi allegations.

853
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: My man, Holy shit, dude. Wow. So that's cool, you know.

854
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,479
Speaker 2: And that's more or less where we are. The court

855
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: ruled against Volkswagen. They are appealing. They have not admitted

856
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: wrongdoing as of yet. Right in twenty sixteen, as part

857
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: of their long reconciliation effort, Volkswagen engaged at the urging

858
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: of the Brazilian state. The car company hired a historian

859
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: named Christopher Kolper to write a report on the company's

860
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 2: activities during the dictatorship. And this is as I said,

861
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: they're not copping to the slavery. They did admit in

862
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: twenty twenty to having worked to like punish and put

863
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: in concentration camps and whatnot, like labor organized like they

864
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: helped the Brazilian state prosecute labor organizers, often viciously, and

865
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: they admitted to that. They haven't admitted to this, but

866
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: as a part of that other reconciliation effort they bring

867
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: in this historian and copper. He writes a good report.

868
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: He's not quite willing to say, Yeah, they definitely enslaved people.

869
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: He says that in like a more academic kind of

870
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: less legally actionable term. Quote, Volkswagens strictly monitor at operations

871
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: pasture cleaning, fencing, deforestation, all done under slave conditions. Contractors

872
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: were only paid once the work was in order. The

873
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: company couldn't not know how laborers were treated. Ignorance is

874
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 2: not credible. It's absolutely impossible, as the ranch was orderly

875
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: and efficiently run. Workers were surveilled at all times by

876
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: armed security who weren't directly employed by the automaker, but

877
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: were following a set of directives established by VW. Managers

878
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: later talked their way out of trouble by emphasizing they

879
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: were not responsible for the treatment of labors employed by

880
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: the subcontractors, even as they bragged the media that full

881
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: time workers employed directly by VW lived very well by

882
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: local standards. Copper concluded Volkswagen farm managers were certainly aware

883
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: of the realities of the rural labor market, the exploitative

884
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: practices of the gottos, and the treatment of the itinerant

885
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: labor force as second class. These men got no reliable shelter,

886
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: no sanitation, no proper medical care. Instead of fixing this,

887
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: management kept supporting the Gottos. His ultimate conclusion is that

888
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: while Volkswagen never gave the orders to enslaver abuse workers,

889
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: it quote took no action to mitigate inhumane conditions and

890
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: was absolutely aware of how its contractors were performing their duty.

891
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's the story.

892
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 3: Wow, So hey, don't buy Volkswagen.

893
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: Maybe don't buy a Volkswagen. I don't know. Man again,

894
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: good luck finding it, Like by a used car, I guess,

895
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 2: although like used car, dealers are also sketchy in different ways.

896
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 5: But right, I mean, there are several ways. You can,

897
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 5: you know, stick out a window here or there.

898
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you the right way to

899
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: live ethically under capitalism, but bad, wow, bad Volkswagen bad. Yeah.

900
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 5: Wow, this is so like, so more recent than Yeah.

901
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 5: I think my a, my spine was prepared.

902
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: For it's shocking, right, yeah, same, uh huh, Yeah, I

903
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: had this. This is a friend of mine and I'm

904
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 2: not going to name because they're a friend. And I

905
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: don't name friends on the podcast because that's a bad idea.

906
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: And you have none, yeah and I have none.

907
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 3: No.

908
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: They just brought this up to be in personally. Did

909
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 2: you know that Volkswagen had a slave plantation in Brazil

910
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: in the fucking eighties? I was like, no, I didn't

911
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: know that. Wow, that's pretty fucked up. Wow, And now

912
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: you know about it, and now I.

913
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: Know about it? So great, and now you all know

914
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: about it.

915
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: Now you all know about it.

916
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 3: What do we do with it that you know? Now

917
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 3: that we know?

918
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. Somebody should probably like that. You know

919
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: that guy we kept talking about, that Swiss dude, he

920
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: should probably get charged with something. Bruger.

921
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, because he's still around.

922
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: Right, he's still around last I checked. I know, maybe

923
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: he died recently, but he's run like twenty twenty two,

924
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, someone go

925
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: yell at him or something at least. Fuck, I don't know.

926
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: I don't know how to fix this.

927
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's not a problem.

928
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Maggie, you want to plug an.

929
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, Well, yes, this this was lovely.

930
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: Uh, I learned, unfortunately so much about our current state

931
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 5: of the world. And uh yeah, my other show, He's

932
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 5: don a dream House, it's on Nebula because he had

933
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 5: it also deals with topics.

934
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 3: I would say, probably nothing as as.

935
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 5: Grandiose as a current uh you know, labor infractions, but

936
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 5: it does do it with misogyny, depression, getting misdiagnosed friend,

937
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 5: break up, you know, less your evils in the grand

938
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 5: scale of things. But yeah, I can hop over there,

939
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 5: check it out, have a beautiful, wonderful time. I have

940
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 5: some wonderful guests, some wonderful guests that I've been on

941
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 5: this podcast. James loftis front of the pod and yeah,

942
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 5: YouTube essays at my name, what about copaganda coming out soon?

943
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 3: And that's it?

944
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 2: Man.

945
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would just really eat chocolate.

946
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 5: Maybe I will eat ethnical chocolate the rest of the

947
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 5: entire day, I think, is what I'm going to be doing.

948
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say, folks, maybe a

949
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: void Haribo if you don't know, they've got a pretty

950
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 2: rough human rights. The Gummy Bear company not a great history,

951
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: and I could not.

952
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: Tell from your tone earlier. Yeah that was a joke.

953
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 2: No, that's that's not a joke. They allegedly still rely

954
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: on slave labor to harvest carnal ba wax to this day. Yeah.

955
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: There's a documentary released in twenty seventeen which showed that

956
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 2: Brazilian and carnalba pickers live in like horrific conditions without

957
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: access to like clean food or water and receive I

958
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: think it's like maybe twelve dollars a day, and it's

959
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: I think it's like a similar sort of like debt

960
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: image system in a lot of cases. It's maybe not

961
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 2: quite as bad as it used to be, but it's

962
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: it's pretty ugly, so bad.

963
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 3: Put stummy bears the fuck down if they're in your hands.

964
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 2: Currently, maybe it's gotten better, but it just don't get

965
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: it from Herribo. I don't know. I don't know where

966
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: you should get your gummy bears, folks.

967
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: Again, that's not your job.

968
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: Just look into it, read about herribo you know. Yeah,

969
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 2: I don't know. Just lick sugar from a bag from

970
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: the bag, that's probably ethical. Yeah, all right, well, thanks Matty,

971
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 2: by everybody.

972
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

973
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

974
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

975
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

976
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

977
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: and Friday.

978
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our

979
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: Channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards