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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm never told your production of I Heart Radios how

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Speaker 1: stuff works. Today. Today we are talking about social media influencers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and since the new year brings with it hope and

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Speaker 1: aspirations and goals, and for a lot of us, that

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Speaker 1: means social media and social media influencers maybe might be

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Speaker 1: part of that. Um Before we get into it, rigger

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Speaker 1: warning for very very brief mention of eating disorders HOWD.

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Speaker 1: A year ago, I was sent some sort of influencer

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Speaker 1: application for travel and I almost did a fittake. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's the thing now, is what you excited about?

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Speaker 1: Is that why I'm definitely not an influencercer. I was

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Speaker 1: told that we you are we as a unit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all excellent, but I mean you're bigger because you have

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Speaker 1: two great shows and you're a movie star. That sense.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Um. I did not apply. I did not

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Speaker 1: feel up the application. Maybe next time, if I ever

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Speaker 1: received another one, I'll think about it more. Seriously, it's time,

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Speaker 1: it's time, it's far, it's been time. I want to

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Speaker 1: start this out by saying I don't really have a

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Speaker 1: problem with influencers as long as they're upfront about their

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Speaker 1: sponsors and in general aren't peddling unhealthy beauty standards and

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Speaker 1: products to achieve those beauty standards or anti feminist rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: But I am always, always, always a big proponent of

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Speaker 1: understanding the messages we and younger folks, if you have children,

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Speaker 1: get through the media. We can soon do your own research.

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Speaker 1: Don't get stuck in that comparison trap. And I also

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Speaker 1: a spouse, a responsible wielding of power in a perfect

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Speaker 1: role that would mean something like fact checking, right um,

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Speaker 1: I think I would say that there is a huge

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Speaker 1: responsibility in the words you speak, So think about the

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Speaker 1: funny equips or inside jokes you're about to tweet, and

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Speaker 1: take responsibility when you do something wrong or you say

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Speaker 1: something incorrectly, I guess, or as you may think, is

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Speaker 1: it misinterpreted. Just being very careful of realizing once it's

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Speaker 1: out there, it's out there, it's never truly gone, including

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Speaker 1: admitting when you're playing happy quote unquote. And I say

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Speaker 1: that in trying to make yourself look perfect, being perfect,

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Speaker 1: which is seemingly some of the ideas of influencers who

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Speaker 1: are now kind of backtracking and talking and having a

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Speaker 1: little more realistic take of their life. But essentially one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons people are influencers I'm seeing is because

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Speaker 1: they seem seem to have a perfect life which is

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Speaker 1: completely fake and being completely happy all the time. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then one of the reasons you and I started

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Speaker 1: talking again about influencers because I know that's been a

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Speaker 1: subject before, and how they came to you is due

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Speaker 1: to the Natalie Beach and um Caroline Kellaway incident that

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Speaker 1: happened in September, which was this whole moment in which

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Speaker 1: Caroline Callaway was a giant Instagram influencer. Turns out Natalie

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Speaker 1: Beach was her ghostwriter for her the captions, which apparently

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Speaker 1: is a thing that's a big thing and I don't

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Speaker 1: know much about it makes sense, why not, UM, have

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Speaker 1: your agency, have your publicists, they all take care of

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Speaker 1: the social media aspect. For us, it's typically us is

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Speaker 1: doing it. UM. By the way, I'm trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out some things because our website changed, so that's kind

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Speaker 1: of yeah, so I'm kind of like, oh, no, how

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Speaker 1: do I do this? Yes, but it also began to

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Speaker 1: be a tell all scandal because Callaway also ended up

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Speaker 1: doing a breach of contract for a book deal that

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Speaker 1: she had and then um, she had an event that

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Speaker 1: went wonky, so kind of wasn't like, you know, what

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Speaker 1: is that fire fire festival that kind of fire festival,

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Speaker 1: very downgraded disaster level. Essentially, she kept canceling and canceling canceling.

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Speaker 1: People were very upset because you know, they thought they

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Speaker 1: were going to be able to meet her do all

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Speaker 1: these amazing things to learn how to be influencers as well.

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Speaker 1: And then Beach had this again tell all essay um

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Speaker 1: in which she kind of just drags their friendship. It

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Speaker 1: turns out to be kind of a toxic friendship, which

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Speaker 1: we hear many times and many a relationships growing up.

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Speaker 1: It just happened to be on that level. Escalated pretty

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Speaker 1: quickly in that time frame. I think, and and and,

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Speaker 1: as Rolling Stone Magazine stays, it combusted and they as

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Speaker 1: they would say once again that yeah, this is kind

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Speaker 1: of the ultimate expectation and downfall of the industry, which

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Speaker 1: is an industry now. But yeah, that's kind of one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I was very interested in you and

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Speaker 1: I started talking about it. I was like, what is

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Speaker 1: this world that's getting bigger and bigger and that you

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Speaker 1: can crash and burn so significantly. So anyway, with that,

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Speaker 1: what are we talking about with this? Well, I can

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Speaker 1: tell you some at that, Yes, tell me what does

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Speaker 1: it mean to be a social media influencer? Well from

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Speaker 1: a research paper titled who are the Social Media Influencers?

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Speaker 1: A Study of public Perceptions of Personality? Authored in tent

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Speaker 1: by Karen Freberg, Kristen Graham, and Karen mcgaughy and Lauren A. Freeburg,

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Speaker 1: social media influencers are s m I s represent a

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Speaker 1: new type of independent third party endorser who shaped audience

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Speaker 1: attitudes through blogs, tweets, and the use of other social media. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's a lot by being authentic with their audiences.

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Speaker 1: They are recommendations of products and services, drive sales and traffic.

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Speaker 1: They come in two main types, celebrity and micro. Obviously

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Speaker 1: one has a bigger audience and that's a bigger reach.

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Speaker 1: A lot of influencers are niche, focusing specifically on beauty

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Speaker 1: or being a mom, what have you. This is where

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Speaker 1: we get terms like in staff, fame, our YouTube star,

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Speaker 1: YouTube started. They have their own awards show I know, book,

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Speaker 1: I have a YouTube award, Samantha. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you knew this about so you are a YouTube star. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I did produce the show that they got an

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Speaker 1: award that this show actually so Promo Republic breaks it

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Speaker 1: down even more. Celebrities, artists, politicians, public people who have

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Speaker 1: one million followers and each of their post gain up

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Speaker 1: to five percent engagement. The impact comes from their status

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Speaker 1: and personal brand, which obvious you would know. Macro influencers

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Speaker 1: are people who have less than one million followers and

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Speaker 1: each of their post gain up to tien percent engagement.

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Speaker 1: Their expertise generate with a specific category and it can

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Speaker 1: be anything from traveling to business development. And then there

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Speaker 1: are micro influencers, and these are people who have at

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Speaker 1: least five d followers. Most of their post gain more

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Speaker 1: than engagement. These individuals build real engagement with the brand

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Speaker 1: and have a unique relationship with their audience. Such close

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Speaker 1: relations in a certain niche can bring really outstanding results

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Speaker 1: in terms of promotion of any company planning to cooperate

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Speaker 1: with this expert, they also had this interesting st at remember,

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Speaker 1: the best way to collaborate with a certain expert in

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Speaker 1: social media is to work according to the one Internet

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Speaker 1: users consume the content, whereas only one person to produced

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Speaker 1: the original one that makes sense. I suppose a recreations

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Speaker 1: or retweets or read things, so that that makes sense. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And then in fun fact, the term micro celebrity was

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Speaker 1: first coined in two thousand one by Teresa and since

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Speaker 1: when she was researching cam girls. People are or can

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Speaker 1: be really really loyal to their social media influencers. For example,

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Speaker 1: water from influencer Belle Delphin's bathtub was sold for thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars and you yeah, and she wasn't even her idea.

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Speaker 1: People were you know, suggesting it and then she put

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Speaker 1: it in water bottles and sold it for thirty dollars

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Speaker 1: and apparently sold out, sold out. It's sold out. And

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Speaker 1: in case you're wondering what, you probably weren't but I was. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are artificial intelligence created influencers like little Michaela. She

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Speaker 1: has over well she it has over a million followers,

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Speaker 1: not even real million followers. Influencer, this is the future.

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Speaker 1: A confluence of things allowed for the rise of the influencer,

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Speaker 1: which I think should be the next Star Wars movie.

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Speaker 1: Rise of the influencer. One was the availability of the

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Speaker 1: technology and widespread use of social media. Second, a growing

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Speaker 1: distrust for companies, and one survey, half of the social

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Speaker 1: media users indicated they'd unfollow a brand if it was

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Speaker 1: marketing too aggressively. Influencers are a way of circumventing that,

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Speaker 1: like getting a product recommendation from a friend. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the T Mobile guy. Everybody

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Speaker 1: was really annoyed by his brand and he was losing

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Speaker 1: his you know, losing his mind, trying to be remembered

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Speaker 1: as the CEO, and so he bought all these ad

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Speaker 1: space be like, hey, you want free things, I got

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Speaker 1: free things. I'm the t You don't know me, I'm

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Speaker 1: the T Mobile CEO. And it was so annoying. People

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Speaker 1: were like, that was the main conversation was you're annoying,

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Speaker 1: please stop this, begging him to stop. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 1: I mean, we certainly had conversations in my friend group

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Speaker 1: about how if you see too much of an adverse something,

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Speaker 1: it turns you off of that thing, Like maybe you

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Speaker 1: would want to see this movie, but fifteen commercials within

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Speaker 1: two minutes later, you don't want to see it anymore.

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Speaker 1: So I yeah, I get that an influencer can be

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Speaker 1: a way to not have to deal with that, And

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Speaker 1: in theory, you're getting an authentic because that is a

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Speaker 1: big piece of this which we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: a little bit more. An authentic recommendation. Influencers have on average,

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Speaker 1: the same or higher return on investment than traditional advertising.

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Speaker 1: Instagram is viewed as the most profitable, with almost influencers

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Speaker 1: indicating it as their primary platform. I found so many

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Speaker 1: blogs and articles directed at putting companies in touch with

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Speaker 1: the right influencers. It blew my mind how much they

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Speaker 1: should offer to pay. It's like this whole bidding system

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Speaker 1: fascinating from tenuity. Instagram influencers get you you need about

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars per one hundred thousand followers. Snapchat influencers

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Speaker 1: starts at five hundred dollars per campaign in twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: YouTube influencers roughly two thousand per one hundred thousand followers.

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Speaker 1: You can see how that would add up pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: At the average price for a sponsored Instagram post jumped

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Speaker 1: from a hundred thirty four dollars in fourteen to one thousand,

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Speaker 1: six hundred forty two dollars in twenty nineteen. That's a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. Here are some other stats. As reported

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Speaker 1: by the BBC, the average cost for a sponsored Instagram

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Speaker 1: post has risen forty four percent from twenty eighteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen alone. For a sponsored blog post, it is

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Speaker 1: soward from seven dollars and thirty nine cents and two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six to one thousand, four hundred forty two

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Speaker 1: dollars in twenty nineteen. YouTube videos command the highest fees,

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Speaker 1: four times that of the next highest price form of

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Speaker 1: sponsored content, up from four hundred ten to six thousand,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars in twenty nineteen. A Facebook status update

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Speaker 1: has risen from eight dollars in fourteen to three hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars in twenty nineteen. A Twitter post has risen from

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Speaker 1: twenty nine dollars to four hundred twenty two dollars in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and then blog posts have risen from four

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Speaker 1: hundred and seven dollars to one thousand, four hundred forty two.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty astronomical. That's giant amounts of money. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I knew I knew some of this world, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know this right. And I think that for all

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Speaker 1: of us this is good to know. This is good information.

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Speaker 1: A giant jump. Yes from Blueberg in quote one third

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Speaker 1: of British children at age six to seventeen wanted to

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Speaker 1: become a YouTuber, which was three times as many as

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Speaker 1: those who wanted to become a doctor or a nurse

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Speaker 1: a new age. It doesn't surprise me at all, though, No,

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Speaker 1: not really. Yeah, and let's take a quick snapshot of

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Speaker 1: social media users in the United States. While underrepresented in

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Speaker 1: all other types of media, women are more likely than

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Speaker 1: men to use all platforms of social media apart from LinkedIn. However,

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Speaker 1: men are twice as likely to get retweeted compared to women,

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Speaker 1: and some suggest that this could be fixed if women

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Speaker 1: used more traditional hashtags. And of course, women are far

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Speaker 1: far likelier to be subject to harassments, ever, bullying and abuse.

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Speaker 1: Influencers one of the few areas that women earn more

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Speaker 1: than men, outperforming them. By thirty five in the UK,

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Speaker 1: female influencers earned fifty more a week as compared to

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Speaker 1: the average annual salary. By twenty influencer marketing posts are

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Speaker 1: expected to reach six point twelve million. Analysts predict it

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Speaker 1: will be a ten billion dollar industry. Seventy two of

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Speaker 1: brands are leveraging a significant amount of their budgets to influencers.

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Speaker 1: Wild you need to do better. You know most articles

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Speaker 1: I read said there was some line in there along

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Speaker 1: along the lines of I'm in their own career. Clearly

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Speaker 1: I be doing this. It's hard. Yeah, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Are a lot of arguments being made here about how

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Speaker 1: companies capitalize on women's insecurity to sell them stuff, and

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Speaker 1: social media can be a hot bed of insecurity. But

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Speaker 1: I would advise not dismissing the power of this or

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Speaker 1: dismissing it as not real work, because yeah, um it is.

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Speaker 1: I've seen in action and it is work. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I am early on social media. It's

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Speaker 1: like I don't have time, um, and yeah, on top

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Speaker 1: of like a full time job, it's just too much

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Speaker 1: and building up an audience is hard and it takes

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Speaker 1: dedication and time. And I know for people kind of

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Speaker 1: in the in the know of this, there are tricks

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Speaker 1: you can do, but even those you gotta have the money.

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Speaker 1: Being authentic in your work and being vulnerable is also

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Speaker 1: not an easy task, being always on and I bet

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Speaker 1: have men dominated this industry, we'd be having a different conversation.

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Speaker 1: There are also less barriers two entry for women in

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Speaker 1: this area than other career fields, and in today's day

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Speaker 1: and age. Like it or not, this is legit pathway

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Speaker 1: to stardom. Cardi b Billie Eilish kind of started in

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Speaker 1: this realm. And it is also interesting that a lot

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Speaker 1: of successful female social influencers are making money off of

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Speaker 1: things that have long been demonetized because they are devalued

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Speaker 1: as women's work, like crafting or or being a mom,

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Speaker 1: things like that. Um. Yeah, I've been thinking a lot

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Speaker 1: about this since we've done the research, And as someone

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Speaker 1: who works in the public sphere where your personality and

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Speaker 1: your past or a part of what you bring to

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Speaker 1: the job, I can say sometimes it's you can feel

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Speaker 1: this pressure to share parts of your life that you

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Speaker 1: might not want to share because you want that relationship

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Speaker 1: to be there. And I'm a very open person and

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Speaker 1: I want to share and I want people listening to

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Speaker 1: hear things that I wish someone had told me and

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Speaker 1: been honest with me about when I was younger. But

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Speaker 1: it does get hard to separate your work life and

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Speaker 1: personal life. Like I'll be out and something will happen

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Speaker 1: to me. I'm like, oh, I can talk about this

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Speaker 1: on the show, and it's one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I think, And it's just kind of interesting be in

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Speaker 1: a field like that, um, and you want to be

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Speaker 1: relatable and you want to be authentic, and sometimes that

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Speaker 1: can be unhealthy. I do find it interesting now that

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Speaker 1: I am now on this podcast and when I talk

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Speaker 1: about it, people tell me their experiences to be like,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should do a show on this. And it's

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Speaker 1: a very relatable, very common thing to do, and it

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense because you don't care if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really pertain to either what you want, what

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Speaker 1: you think about, or who you would like to be,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Maybe whether it's a fantasy

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Speaker 1: idea of being Kim Kardashi and like or Kylie Jenner

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Speaker 1: Rich that's the only thing I can think of them

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Speaker 1: I gonna lie, or whether it's you want to be

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Speaker 1: a better influence, very better person. So therefore you see

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Speaker 1: these people who do these amazing things you know you've got,

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Speaker 1: and then you kind of go out and be like,

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Speaker 1: how do I become that person? So how can I

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Speaker 1: be more relatable with that? Or yes, I experienced that,

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Speaker 1: I feel so seen the conversations that people want to

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Speaker 1: have for sure. Yeah, And and that's great and it's

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Speaker 1: totally totally natural and one of my favorite episodes we

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Speaker 1: ever did in the past is on paras social relationships,

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Speaker 1: which I feel like this whole thing is that, and

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Speaker 1: that's when you feel like you know somebody through like

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Speaker 1: we're watching their influencer. It's speaking the Kardashians. Yeah, the Kardashians.

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Speaker 1: Their whole show was a great example of that, and

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Speaker 1: then they moved it into social media as well, and

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Speaker 1: they've been very successful at it um. But it is

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Speaker 1: it can be hard if you put so much of

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Speaker 1: yourself in your your true self out there, your life

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Speaker 1: out there, because any judgments on that is a judgment

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Speaker 1: on you, and that can be hard to deal with.

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Speaker 1: So individualism, exposure, self branding, and relative ease of use

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Speaker 1: of social media has led to somewhat of a myth

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Speaker 1: that not only can anyone become successful and famous, but

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Speaker 1: it isn't even that hard to do so, which we

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Speaker 1: know that's not true. No, And in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: social media is an extension of things that have traditionally

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Speaker 1: been seen as women's weren't quote unquote, like emotional labor

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Speaker 1: and also things like image can roll and of course

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Speaker 1: they albeit having it all and that goes back to

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Speaker 1: what you were talking about. Earlier of kind of portraying

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Speaker 1: this view of the perfect playing happy. Yeah. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons I'm not on social media

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Speaker 1: a lot, is because, as I've said, it's not good

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Speaker 1: for me. Even though I recognize when I'm looking on

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Speaker 1: social media, of course you're posting the best sort of

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Speaker 1: happiest things generally not everybody. People's whole lives aren't that.

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Speaker 1: But when that's all you're seeing, you're like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: stuck here doing this or whatever. I will say, your

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Speaker 1: stories make me feel like I'm missing out on things,

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Speaker 1: but also really, but also it makes me exhausted so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, I can't be there. Yeah no. If

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Speaker 1: if you've noticed something with my voice, it's because of

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Speaker 1: a recent social media story. Happy New Year, everybody. And

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Speaker 1: we did want to talk about feminism specifically and social

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Speaker 1: media influencers, but first we're gonna pause for a quick

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Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor. Yeah, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor. So there is a lot of anxiety

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Speaker 1: and disagreement out there when it comes to feminist social

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Speaker 1: media influencers. In some ways, especially in some areas, it

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Speaker 1: helps democratize feminism. If someone is in an isolated area

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Speaker 1: or an area where feminism largely isn't accepted, and there

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Speaker 1: may be some gate keeping unintentional or not to attend

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Speaker 1: feminist conferences, talks, what have you. Being a feminist social

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Speaker 1: media influencer are following a feminist social media influencer is

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Speaker 1: a way to make it more accessible and to reach

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Speaker 1: more people. It's a cheaper way to organize, and in

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Speaker 1: some ways it allows for more autonomy. For instance, some

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Speaker 1: argue that me Too never would have taken off without

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Speaker 1: social media influencers. And as we've talked about before, a

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Speaker 1: part of the problem of the mainstreaming of feinism are

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Speaker 1: the corporations through jump in to monetize feminism while at

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Speaker 1: the same time undercutting it. They're still trying to sell

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Speaker 1: you something at the end of the day, and now

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Speaker 1: they just put a fake feminist coating on it. Beauty

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Speaker 1: beauty brands are really bad about that. Since social media

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Speaker 1: influencers and podcasters generally work via sponsorships, this can be

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Speaker 1: very very tricky wire to navigate. Just as we know

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Speaker 1: we've talked about it before. Having sponsors does that mean

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Speaker 1: someone isn't a feminist or they can't be a feminist

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Speaker 1: social media influencer. But there is a lot of anxiety

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Speaker 1: around the capitalization of feminism for a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't help that for some feminist social media influencers

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Speaker 1: there's a layer of sella activism right. Going off of that,

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Speaker 1: another criticism a feminist social media influencer is a cross

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Speaker 1: generation on one we see throughout all of history, meaning

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Speaker 1: that they didn't pay their dues. It was too easy

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Speaker 1: for them when the women before them had to put

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Speaker 1: their bodies on the line. But this again goes back

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Speaker 1: to the whole gate keeping. We need more feminists, not less,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean that there aren't women who may

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Speaker 1: or may not label themselves as feminist capitalizing and profiting

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Speaker 1: off of the insecurities of women and girls. Of course,

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Speaker 1: kin Kardashian again is a name that comes up a

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Speaker 1: lot in this conversation. It's pretty sickening when you think

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Speaker 1: about someone with that much influenced selling lollipops that are

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Speaker 1: supposed to suppress your appetite or waste trainers to keep

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Speaker 1: you you're supposed to work out in those I believe

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Speaker 1: are painful looking. They do look very very painkul, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're lifting weights or something right, I will say

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Speaker 1: I've seen people work out with it um in the gym,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if it motivates them more, but

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Speaker 1: usually halfway through the ticket off, Yeah, I imagine I

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Speaker 1: just imagine it with peach. But you know that pinch, pinch.

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Speaker 1: How do you say, I was really like you painch?

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Speaker 1: That is a real country, is it. Well? Regardless that

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Speaker 1: the whole selling of these things two people, especially young people,

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Speaker 1: are especially harmful once that influencer frames it as empowerment

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Speaker 1: or in the context of mental health, while exploiting and

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Speaker 1: procating off of mental health issues like eating disorders. Multiple

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Speaker 1: studies have shown that social media filters impact how we

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Speaker 1: see ourselves in a not insignificant amount of women and

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Speaker 1: girls have sought out cosmetic surgery to look more like

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Speaker 1: their digital selves, and unfortunately, a lot of female social

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Speaker 1: media influencers do operate within the walls of traditional femininity

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Speaker 1: and or objectification mommy blogs, fitspiration, and endless photos of

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Speaker 1: toned bodies. None of these things are bad necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: when that's all that we see, that becomes really damaging.

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Speaker 1: Social media and feminism might be a larger conversation than

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Speaker 1: the one we're having but this again will be something

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Speaker 1: that we need to come back on and have a

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Speaker 1: second look, obviously, because it is a bigger thing to unfold,

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Speaker 1: and while the boundaries of entry might be lower, the

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Speaker 1: realm of social media influencer is still largely privileged and

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Speaker 1: beauty based, and like, we need to understand that this

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Speaker 1: is a privileged industry and that people who come into it,

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Speaker 1: even though it was really hard for them to build

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Speaker 1: that up. As we talked about at that earlier part,

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Speaker 1: Caroline Callaway made everything look beautiful and had to have

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Speaker 1: a ghostwriter come behind her to make it embellished. Just

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Speaker 1: as a reminder, yeah, I'm I'm always a big fan

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Speaker 1: of being open about When anyone anyone ever asked me

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Speaker 1: what does it take to be a podcaster? I will

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Speaker 1: tell you straight up. I will not I will not

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Speaker 1: hide any of the details from you. Another wrinkle in

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Speaker 1: this whole thing is the phenomenon of feminist takedowns of

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Speaker 1: female influencers who do things like use photos shop. A

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Speaker 1: great case study of this is that of Anastasia Vito,

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Speaker 1: a model and influencer are often called the Russian Kim Kardashian.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, a user with a bunch of followers

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Speaker 1: called at Fate Girls, Kia posted a series of things

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Speaker 1: to call Outo's parents use a photoshop to enhance her features.

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Speaker 1: These post has since been deleted. The account then called

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Speaker 1: on his followers and numbering in the ten thousands too

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Speaker 1: guesses at the body parts Covicco photoshops in a recent

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Speaker 1: picture and so many trolls to send it on her account,

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Speaker 1: calling her fake and pathetic and for words, she made

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Speaker 1: her account private, and that kept coming back to me.

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Speaker 1: If Kim Kardashian, if this happened to her and she

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Speaker 1: had to make her account private, blows my mind. And

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Speaker 1: some of it has to do with this need to

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Speaker 1: expose female influencers for promoting and making a living off

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Speaker 1: of beauty standards that for many of us are unattainable

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Speaker 1: and downright unhealthy for us to chase after. So by

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Speaker 1: exposing influencers for using photoshop are the like some people

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Speaker 1: think they're doing a public service. There are so so

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Speaker 1: many accounts that do this, and many of them have thousands,

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Speaker 1: even millions of followers. This is another complicated issue because yes,

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Speaker 1: beauty standards are damaging, and understanding that the look you

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Speaker 1: feel like you have to have was actually a product

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Speaker 1: of photoshop is a good thing. We could go on

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Speaker 1: and on about the negative old outcomes of comparing yourself

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Speaker 1: to a celebrity and trying to look like that and

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Speaker 1: punishing yourself when you don't look that, but so often

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Speaker 1: these exposure accounts just give a sanctioned space to attack

428
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: and tear other women down. Some influencers have even reported

429
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: exposure accounts not only for harassment, but for posting pictures

430
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: of them altered to make them look worse. Even though

431
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: for better or worse, it has become normal for men

432
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: to alter their appearances, whether through photoshop or cosmetic surgery.

433
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: These exposure accounts focus almost exclusively on women, and some

434
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: accounts focus on specifically exposing one woman right and for instance,

435
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: Jessica Celesque. After serving for seven years in the U. S. Army,

436
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: she pivoted to modeling, but one exposure account popped up

437
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: to concentrate fully on her, posting pictures on their account

438
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: that were photoshop to make her look heavier. A lot

439
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: are candidate pictures of her. This account only had a

440
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: few hundred followers, which still, by the way, sucks. He

441
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: shouldn't exist but it got picked up by the same

442
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: exposure account we mentioned earlier, which has of course, way

443
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: way way more followings. And this got picked up by

444
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: the verified mel YouTuber and his hundreds and thousands of followers,

445
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: which he used in part to ridicule female influencers. And

446
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: you can imagine all of the comments calling her flabby,

447
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: a slot, that she needs to go to the gym,

448
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: and of course blah blah blah blah blah with all

449
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: the damn judgments. Yeah. In an earlier iteration of this,

450
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: Jezebel offered ten thousand dollars for the untouched photos of

451
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: a Vogue photoshoot with Lena Dunham. Hours later, hours later,

452
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: they had it and posted before and after pictures with

453
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: arrows demarcating all of the changes. They claimed that this

454
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: was an effort to demonstrate how quote insane and unattainable

455
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: beauty standards are for women, but Donald said it just

456
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: felt gross. And of course we've seen celebrities take this

457
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: into their own hands, posting unretouched photos of photo shoots,

458
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: but we've also talked about how that could be damaging too,

459
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: and there are whole apps now to make a photo

460
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: look unretouched. So some of those photos are quote fake

461
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: as well. Some exposure counts do post pictures with the

462
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: subject's consent showing before and after. So there's ways to

463
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: do this without shaming and attacking other women. Right, we

464
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: can talk about the random people who like to pull

465
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 1: photos just to make fun of people, not knowing who

466
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: they are. And these strangers come up and seeing themselves

467
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: being completely ridiculed. Why why yeah? And uh yeah, this

468
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: really pisces me off. There's this impossible beauty standard that

469
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: you have to live up to. Are you're worthless and

470
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: gross you if you use makeup and cosmetic surgery or

471
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: photoshop to get it? I hate it. I like it

472
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: almost eating feisty. Hello twenty twenty. Time to speak out,

473
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: and I agree the whole bullshit being one thing without

474
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: being the other. Because if you're too much or too little,

475
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: it makes someone nervous, you know, So respect my uncomfortable

476
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: nous and please just go by my rules and my standards,

477
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: because ak haters of Lizzo, our Analytics and Blue Ivy,

478
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: they should be comforted somehow because they're uncomfortable with whatever appears.

479
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: This person may be comfortable with themselves, and that's such absurdity,

480
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: whether it's finally accepting who you are and being happy

481
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: and learning to love yourself instead of I don't know,

482
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: hating yourself, hiding away from the world and wishing everything

483
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: would disappear, to actually finally feeling comfortable with who you

484
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: are and loving or at least becoming one with who

485
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: you are. You know what I mean. And I do

486
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: understand why it is that we want to lash out

487
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: with people being comfortable with themselves, because this is of

488
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: course us projecting our own fears and a lot of

489
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: times having the need to speak out about something because

490
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: you're unhappy or they're unhappy, which is unnecessary, and then

491
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: to make money off of that, such as that website

492
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: we're talking about that just takes women and rips them apart,

493
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: and just for fun of it, just to gain attention.

494
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: It makes no sense and it's such b us. It

495
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: is unnecessary. It is we can do better than this.

496
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: And I was, I was thinking about this, and I

497
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: wondered if add something to do with power, like how

498
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 1: unfortunately women's currency is their looks, and there's resentment for

499
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: women gaming the system and making money through what some

500
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: people view is cheating, while others are pissed that they're

501
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: participating and benefiting from the system at all, our anger

502
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: that we ourselves feel like we can't use the tools

503
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: that person is using. Because a lot of these accounts,

504
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: these exposure accounts, are run by women. A lot of

505
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: them have something like not a hate account and or

506
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: here for your self esteem in their bios, and I

507
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: read a lot of interviews with people who run these accounts,

508
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: and some of them they've heard from a lot of

509
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: people who said, thank you, you helped me with my

510
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: self confidence because I kept comparing myself to celebrities. But

511
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: the comments in general, they don't seem to reflect that.

512
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: A bunch of criticizing how women look, probably your sexuality,

513
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: probably calling her a slut, and then several from women

514
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: and girls asking oh yeah, but really though, what lip

515
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: fillers did they use, or what what makeup? What editing

516
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: app It doesn't reflect this. Whatever they're espousing, what they

517
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: say here for yourself to stee I don't know. This

518
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: is definitely a passive aggressive way of being, Hey, yeah,

519
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: I'm helping you, but also I want to damage someone

520
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: else to help others. And I'm sure that it did helps.

521
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: I don't doubt that at all. I I remember the

522
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: day when I had a moment of Oh, I wonder.

523
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: I mean, if it was my job to look good,

524
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: I bet are really really good. I mean, that's that's

525
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: the reality is that a lot of these celebrities, they

526
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: have the tools the whether it's the trainer or whether

527
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: it's the chef, whether there is a nutitionist um that's

528
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: all lovely, whether it's the makeup team fantastic. That's that.

529
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: I think we all could agree that would be something

530
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: that would help us all look wonderful and look like

531
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: we have the beuz. But there's this whole level again

532
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: of having and being all. That's this non physical, damaging

533
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: idea of you must be the perfect mix of something,

534
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: but you better be natural because if not, you're not

535
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: worth our time. If you can't be all these things

536
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: to all people, then you have no importance and need

537
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: to be silenced. That's just just an absurd idea. And

538
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: once again, yes, these people maybe whatever fantastic, right, you

539
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: look amazing, your skin as flaw as beautiful, whatever, what

540
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: the hellever. But yeah, it takes work. And for those

541
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: who may come naturally, because I mean, I say a

542
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: lot of people with wonderful skin, and I'm just like, wow,

543
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: let tell me how you get that skin, and it's genetics.

544
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: There's no need to go after them either. Appreciate with

545
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: who they are in the story, and if you can

546
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: afford it and it makes you happy, then do it.

547
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: If it doesn't make you happy, then you need to

548
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: question why you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah, And this whole

549
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: thing kind of reminds you what we talked about in

550
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: the in Sales episode, about that whole thing of judging

551
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: women for wearing makeup and cosmetic surgery. It's almost a

552
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: more mainstream way of doing that. Using social media influencers,

553
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: especially in the mind field of inauthentic or out of

554
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: touchway can majorly backfire. Think Kendall Jenner and that very

555
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: poorly thought out pepsi ad. More than one influencer has

556
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: been brought down by m false cancer cure claims, for instance,

557
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: and we should say too, as many of you probably know,

558
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: spawn con are sponsored content has recently been subject to

559
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: more scrutiny and regulations. Some diet related posts have been

560
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: banned by Instagram for being irresponsible. Governments has stated that

561
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: being unclear about sponsorships and posts might violate laws. The

562
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Federal Trade Commission recently issued new guidelines requiring influencers are

563
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: explicit about who's paying for post. Fake followers is a

564
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: new troubling trend as well. Right, Instagram did pretty well

565
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: and trying to get rid of those fake followers of

566
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: bought followers a few years ago, which is which was

567
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of funny because the significant decline in a lot

568
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: of supposed influencers followership, it was almost comical. Yeah, yeah,

569
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: I think these are good things that, Like I said,

570
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: I really don't have necessarily in general problem with it,

571
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: but I think you should be upfront with whatever it is,

572
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: be honest. Yes, uh, And we do have a little

573
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: bit more a good good note to end on, perhaps,

574
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: but first we have one more quick break for word

575
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And yeah,

576
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: it's not all bad. We did want to end on

577
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: this quote that we really liked from feminist and activists

578
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: Shina mcgenia. No matter how our ideas and iterations of

579
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: feminism manifest, we should never shift our focus from the issues.

580
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: We should not forget that this same internet, we're self centered,

581
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: selfie feminists, occupied space and power is itself a side

582
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: of oppression, and the existence of this voice, whether it

583
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: speaks for us or not, is resistance. The Internet and

584
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: social media in particular has the effect of a microscope

585
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: where we stop looking at the whole peachtree disc of

586
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: fungus fall around this one bacteria. Our fight should always

587
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: be against structures of social, cultural, political, economic, and environmental

588
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: power that oppress us and force us to either horde

589
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: space and resources or carve it out for ourselves and

590
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: on our own terms. Now more than ever, we need

591
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: solidarity with and for our selfie taking, natural hair care, vlogging,

592
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: feminist fashion selling, anything goes social media feminist influencers. We

593
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: don't have enough of them, and the few that dare

594
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: make popular or difficult politics are facing considerable amount of backlash.

595
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: Feminists that they're the best way they know how to

596
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: occupy whatever space and influence they can, even when what

597
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: is being sold as feminism light. We must stand in

598
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: solidarity with them. The quiet, introverted it an offline feminist

599
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: can coexist with a loud, self absorbed online feminist. We

600
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: have to believe that we dream of a feminist future

601
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: where we take turns to stand in the hot sun.

602
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, the Twitter feminist who are doing

603
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: this blood, sweat and tears work Boom. I love it.

604
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: It's a good one. I love it. The whole article

605
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: is really great if if anyone's interested, highly recommend you

606
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: go and check it out. And yeah, that's about what

607
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: we have to say. Goodness dan On absolutely absolutely I

608
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: love it. And if you would like to email us

609
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: about social media influencers are influencing or anything else, you can.

610
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media

611
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on Twitter at

612
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram that Stuff I've Never

613
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard,

614
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You.

615
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: The protection of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For

616
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: more podcast from HIGHERT Radio is the iHeart Radio app,

617
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

618
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: all